| #2: Ditto to OP's comments about being retired. Except I loved wearing my BDUs where ever I was on duty! I hope that they are cheaper than the new BDUs are cheaper (cost) than the old ones. |
| Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter)>Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter)|| 2003-8-13 2:02:30 PM
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| #3: Spot: Most Falschirmjaeger wore field gray jumpers that fit over their uniform also field gray. It's possible that some were wearing Italian cammo,it had a pattern that looked somewhat like tiger stripe...but that would have been rare. And tiger stripe stinks. It was lousy in Vietnam, and it's lousy now. It does little to disrupt natural body lines. I'll take Flektar or Austrian losenge, thank you. |
| Posted by: Rex Mundi|| 2003-8-13 2:07:15 PM
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| #4: I did a brief stint in the USAF in the 80's and the BDU's were...plain. I don't think these look that bad just by looking at the photo. |
| Posted by: Bill|| 2003-8-13 3:26:56 PM
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#5: No pocketts? What next, a row of buttons on the sleeve (see Frederick the Great & Uniforms) so you can't wipe your nose?
I saw some of tiger stripes on some AF types when I was at Phan Rang. The first thing that came to mind was a caption from a Bill Mauldin Willie & Joe cartoon ... "they can't be real sojers, their looking for a fight". |
| Posted by: Jim K>Jim K|| 2003-8-13 3:29:02 PM
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| #6: The Corps new camo is distinctive and works well. |
| Posted by: raptor>raptor|| 2003-8-13 5:32:06 PM
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| #7: Jeeze Louise! This pattern looks like someone in blues fell in a glacial stream and the rock flour dried in place.... |
| Posted by: Alaska Paul|| 2003-8-13 5:37:15 PM
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| #8: Well the Army got their beanies....errr....berets so I guess the Air Force gets their morale building clothing too. Won't they just feel special! Thanks Gen Shinseki you were such a human resources genius. That's my rant for the night, goodnight folks, I'll be here all week. Be sure to tip the waitresses on your way out. |
| Posted by: whitecollar redneck>whitecollar redneck|| 2003-8-13 10:27:28 PM
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#9: sigh... well, I was in the AF from '91 to '00, and I really did NOT enjoy BDU's... thought they were a waste of time for maintenance troops like myself... I was hoping the AF would eventually get with the program and adopt the coveralls that the Marine maintainers wear... They are suited to the job, being appropriate wear for all of us that actually got dirty everyday -- Msgt, SMsgt and CMsgt could wear something akin to Navy and/or Marine khakis, or just wear those regular old blues - they are supposed to be managers anyway... Of course camo would be appropriate when under deployment or excercise conditions, but for day to day ops, coveralls are surely the way to go...
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| Posted by: Steve W.>Steve W.|| 2003-8-13 11:57:41 PM
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#10: *...slams head repeatedly on the desk*
Well, first of all, that'll REALLY camouflage your butt in the desert or on a flightline.
Second, the caption for that pic needs to be, "Hi, I'm not a Navy SEAL, but I play one in the Air Force!"
Mike
USAF Ammo 78-98 |
| Posted by: Mike Kozlowski|| 2003-8-14 1:22:01 AM
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| #1: Tried to yellow all of this, but didn't. *expletive deleteted* newbies. |
| Posted by: Lynwood|| 2003-8-13 11:18:24 AM
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#2: The market IS solving the problem.
The biggest investors in hydrogen (aside from the government) are Texaco, Shell, BP, Chevron, Mobil, etc. All of them sit on the board of the National Hydrogen Association. Oil companies already produce hydrogen from natural gas.
Ford, GM, Honda, and Toyota (I think BMW, too) all have functioning hyrogen vehicles on the road, today. Shell was supposed to install the first gas station-based retail hydrogen pump in DC this year.
This all makes sense. The oil companies have a fuel distribution network in place. Car makers make cars. It is hard to understand why people find this surprising.
Like it or not, hydrogen fuel is acquiring a life of its own. Somebody always comes back to point out that there isn't a distribution system in place, the cars are expensive, and there isn't enough hydrogen to replace petroleum yet. Of course not, it's just the beginning! Our first space flight was not to the moon. Television was pretty stupid, when there were no television sets to receive the broadcasts.
Even Bush said, in the speech that appropriated funding for hydrogen research, that you and I might not drive one of these cars, but our grandkids will.
People who think we are converting next week are no less unrealistic than those who think that because we haven't already, we never will. The professional industrial proponents of hydrogen fuel (including steely-eyed oil and auto execs) are not claiming that hydrogen will replace all other forms of power, or that a national transition is imminent... but they are investing R&D dollars into hydrogen every day. |
| Posted by: Mark IV|| 2003-8-13 12:35:11 PM
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| #3: It is nice to say 'let the market' solve the problem. However, it is misleading to ignore the many non market forces in the energy business. There are pollution laws & regulations, safety laws and regulations, tax laws and regulation. There is govt. funded R&D. |
| Posted by: mhw|| 2003-8-13 1:18:09 PM
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#4: And unfortunately, it's as unrealistic to imagine eliminating or simplifying some of these regulations as it is to imagine a realistic price for energy.
There is some evidence that the less the government tries to manage the market the better it works. Hard to convince a politician though. |
| Posted by: Lynwood|| 2003-8-13 1:37:28 PM
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#5: Here's a story that turns the entire "environmental" community upside down - the very people who for years have been demanding "alternate energy programs" are now AGAINST one of those programs, because "it'll spoil our view".
Thus we see the two sides of the debate: The rich and famous want us to change our ways, but they don't want to be inconvenienced by anything that helps meet that goal. In most countries, that's called rampant hypocracy. |
| Posted by: Old Patriot>Old Patriot||http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm]' target='_blank'>[http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm]|| 2003-8-13 2:18:37 PM
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| #6: Right on, OP! The environmental community thinks that people are the enemy. We humans will all leave our footprint on the earth before we are recycled, so to speak. They don't mind locking up millions of acres, but they do want the natural experience. To get to remote parks in Alaska, they hire float planes burning dead dinosaurs in their tanks to get there, then they color pollute the whole scene with a rainbow full of nylon or other petroleum or gas derived parkas, tents, tarps, and sleeping bags. What hypocracy.... |
| Posted by: Alaska Paul|| 2003-8-13 5:47:55 PM
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#7: Hydrogen fuel??
But I thought car bombs were illegal! ;) |
| Posted by: Bomb-a-rama|| 2003-8-13 6:19:53 PM
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#8: "Raise the price of energy, gasoline..."
Just who should be in charge of raising the price? The government? (shudder)
Boy, it sure sounds simple : "Hey, just raise the price!"
How much more of a burden do you want to put on the poor or lower-income people who can just barely pay their gas bills now? |
| Posted by: Uncle Joe>Uncle Joe|| 2003-8-13 11:26:58 PM
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| #1: If you've been there, which in India's case I have, one look out your hotel window would answer that question. It's a mess, even in New Delhi. Those pictures I linked were the nice ones, btw. :( |
| Posted by: Laurence of the Rats>Laurence of the Rats|| 2003-8-13 8:26:41 AM
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| #1: students huh? Call it a learning experience. Our condolences to the landlord about his loss |
| Posted by: Frank G>Frank G|| 2003-8-13 9:35:25 AM
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| #2: They died with their turbans on... |
| Posted by: Fred>Fred|| 2003-8-13 9:51:29 AM
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| #3: Those final exams are a killer... |
| Posted by: seafarious|| 2003-8-13 10:14:57 AM
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#4: Two university students were killed and one wounded in Afghanistan's capital on Wednesday when a bomb they were making - apparently in preparation for a terrorist attack - exploded by accident, police said. The incident occurred at one of the students' home in western Kabul, said deputy police chief Khalil Aminzada. The wounded student was reportedly in a coma at one of the city's hospitals, Aminzada said. No arrests were made.
An arrest would be a bit redundent, unless he wakes up. |
| Posted by: Steve>Steve|| 2003-8-13 10:29:50 AM
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#1: How does any man, even this Queen Latiffa looking idiot, get so used to saying B.S. that he can't possibly believe? I guess that I could ask Al Gore.... but it still boggles the mind.
Qathafi should be running on the Dem's ticket this year. So he's a ruthless dictator who sponsored terrorism - moveon brother! Plus, it would give Dennis K. somebody to smoke hash with! |
| Posted by: Secret Master>Secret Master||www.budgetwarrior.com]' target='_blank'>[www.budgetwarrior.com]|| 2003-8-13 11:47:52 AM
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| #3: So I guess in keeping with the "spirit of the age" old Mo is going to resign and let free elections occur in Libya? |
| Posted by: Matt|| 2003-8-13 12:38:06 PM
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| #4: Perhaps the bluster's just pre-emptive CYA to make up for this loss of Arab face. |
| Posted by: someone|| 2003-8-13 2:10:00 PM
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#5: "Such acts do not match the spirit of the age and undermine all that we have built after the second world war." says Mallomar.
Just who is this "we" and what have they built? Sorry Mulehammer, the US is gonna' take the steps necessary for self-preservation, despite upsetting all the Islamist's dreams of building a caliphate.
And Molehumidor, just what the f*ck has any Islamic nation contributed to the benefit of mankind since say 1200 a.d?
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| Posted by: Craig>Craig|| 2003-8-13 4:51:10 PM
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| #1: Tic toc |
| Posted by: Lucky|| 2003-8-13 1:11:25 PM
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| #2: Actually, I think the lawsuit against the Canadian govt. would have to be a separate lawsuit. |
| Posted by: mhw|| 2003-8-13 1:23:34 PM
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#2: From Arabic News: A Saudi official said that the Saudi security forces arrested following these clashes, seven extremist Islamists of Saudi nationality. One of them was strongly wounded and is suspected to have links to al-Qaida organization. The statement added that the gunmen who are suspected to be Islamists activists opened fire at the special security forces using mortars and machine guns.
Mortars??? That's an upgrade, when do they start the artillary duels and tank battles, I need to make popcorn. |
| Posted by: Steve>Steve|| 2003-8-13 11:01:48 AM
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#3: More from Reuters: Saudi Arabia's interior minister said on Wednesday five of the Muslim militants who battled police in Riyadh on Tuesday have been arrested but seven others were still on the run. Prince Nayef bin Abdul-Aziz was speaking to Al Arabiya television, one of the few foreign news networks with offices in the secretive kingdom, a day after a police raid on a militant stronghold in which four policemen and an Islamist were killed. Nayef said the militants were not linked to the May 12 bombings in Riyadh, which Washington and the kingdom blame on the al Qaeda network, but were among another group of militants who shot at police this week at a Riyadh highway rest stop. Saudi security sources said on Monday police had arrested about 10 suspected militants after the rest stop shootout on Sunday. The British Foreign Office said it believed these Islamists had actually escaped and may have been targeting British interests.
A senior Saudi official in Washington, however, said those arrested made up "another major cell that were targeting a British target." |
| Posted by: Steve>Steve|| 2003-8-13 3:21:51 PM
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| #1: Bjorn Staerk also blogs about Krekar. |
| Posted by: Anonymous|| 2003-8-13 2:13:40 AM
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| #1: what do you expect from Newsweak? |
| Posted by: Frank G>Frank G|| 2003-8-13 9:45:07 PM
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#2: Tom Clancy has been scarily correct about far too many things in the last several years. That makes his fictional stories about China and India, and a rearmed Japan well worth consideration.
The fact you cannot argue about the death penalty is that the recidivism rate is zero. |
| Posted by: Chuck>Chuck||http://blog.simmins.org]' target='_blank'>[http://blog.simmins.org]|| 2003-8-13 10:29:12 PM
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| #1: Did Sen. Levin (D-Bushhater) have any comments when Clinton/Gore released oil from the SPR to get votes? Didn't think so |
| Posted by: Frank G>Frank G|| 2003-8-13 4:48:49 PM
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#3: Who to believe?
Oil prices fell today after Iraq began pumping crude to Turkey for export to world markets and news broke of an increase in U.S. crude inventories, easing concerns about tight supplies.
Crude oil for September delivery was down $1.07, or 3.4 percent, at $30.85 a barrel at the 2:30 p.m. close of floor trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. If prices settle at this level it would be the lowest close since July 31 and biggest one-day decline since July 22. Oil is up 11 percent from a year ago.
Oil prices edged higher in early deals on Wednesday as traders nervously awaited another expected fall in already low levels of US gasoline stocks.
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| Posted by: growler|| 2003-8-13 5:25:09 PM
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#4: The Dems are continuously probing the armor of the present administration with daggers to find weaknesses to exploit. They do not want consensus, their whole effort is basically destruction, and defense be damned in the process. Given the potential increased instability of the middle earth east, the administration is being prudent. I would like to see the Bush administration addressing each one of these handwaving dagger exercises with reasoned, simple english statements showing why they are being prudent in their actions, and how this is done in the national interest. In other words Bush needs to demonstrate over and over again how these asshats are trying to damage the country with their political agenda. I would like to see some agressiveness. We, after all, are still at war. |
| Posted by: Alaska Paul|| 2003-8-13 5:34:29 PM
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#5: "Filling the reserve when oil prices are high, huh? Wonder if the administration is expecting an "interuption" in the supply of oil from, oh, I don’t know, someplace with a lot of sand? "
In this context, note the report of a gun fight in Riyadh. And reports just in that Saudis are finding a huge network of al qaeeda cells across the country.
Either A. We are getting these results cause of pressure, and filling the reserve makes it easier to keep the pressure on
B. We're still not getting adequate results and are preparing to break with them
C. We're happy with the results, but are afraid the country is about to blow up.
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| Posted by: liberalhawk|| 2003-8-13 5:38:13 PM
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| #6: Imagine how the Dems would screach if something happened to the oil supply and the SPR had not been filled. |
| Posted by: Yank|| 2003-8-13 7:09:39 PM
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| #7: Precisely - It seems far too much is going on in Saudi to call it just a bit of police-work anymore. There are fights going on daily it seems. |
| Posted by: buwaya>buwaya|| 2003-8-13 7:48:58 PM
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| #8: I have a comment of my own on this over on my weblog. Check here.
Personally, I think the people in question will be criticizing Bush for buying oil for the reserve, up until the day they're criticizing him for not having bought enough.
But by then it'll be too late to easily enlarge it. |
| Posted by: Phil Fraering||http://thenostromo.com/pgf/weblog]' target='_blank'>[http://thenostromo.com/pgf/weblog]|| 2003-8-14 10:58:26 PM
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| #3: Old Patriot: You meant, of course, 'Freedom of Religion.' |
| Posted by: Ned|| 2003-8-13 7:22:02 PM
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| #5: These clowns appear too stupid to be real terrorists. But it wold not surprise me to dscover they were testing the system for someone else. More cannon fodder. |
| Posted by: john>john|| 2003-8-13 8:47:32 PM
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| #6: Nah. That profiling? It'll never work. The ACLU and CAIR told me. |
| Posted by: tu3031|| 2003-8-13 10:46:35 PM
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| #1: What, are we afraid of a little success? This is disgusting news. Yes, Bush, veto it and let the chips fall where they may. You've got the momentum. Don't slow down. We're counting on you. |
| Posted by: Michael|| 2003-8-13 11:14:37 AM
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#2: Steve you beat me again! Here are my comments:
I used to work in DC and this is a clear case of someone who thinks it’s a good idea for Congress to approve EVERYTHING that the military does. The reason our Armed Forces are so successful is because the commanders have the FLEXIBILITY to fight the battle. Making a Commander gain approval every time he wants employ SpecOps for a certain situation would be a HUGE mistake. Next they will want to approve troop movements and bombing targets (That was the FAILED model in Vietnam). Stephen Cambone must be a big fan of the Soviet doctrine that centralizes all decisions with the political apparatus. I second the Tar/Feather party for Mr. Cambone. |
| Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter)>Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter)|| 2003-8-13 11:21:29 AM
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#3: "The senior official said the report language was inserted based on misunderstandings that resulted from conversations between Mr. Cambone and several senators, who were not identified."
Let's not string up Cambone yet. Sounds like the DoD made it clear that the military was not supposed to be subject to the "finding" requirement, but some bozos on the Senate Intelligance Committee tried to get their paws on covert military deployments. I wouldn't be surprised if Rummy had this leaked to embarrass the Senators involved.
BTW, isn't "Senate Intelligence Committee" a contradiction in terms? |
| Posted by: Tibor|| 2003-8-13 11:55:30 AM
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#4: ...a contradiction in terms?
I believe you mean OXY[gen][deprived]MORON |
| Posted by: Anonymous|| 2003-8-13 12:17:21 PM
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#5: I ain't going back to the 1970s when our intel organizations had their hands tied. This isn't happening as long as I can shoot my mouth off about it.
Congress needs to grow up and let the special ops guys do their jobs, unemcumbered and free to dispose of our national enemies.
God Bless the CIA, ONI and our special forces. Let them go through our enemies like crap through a goose. |
| Posted by: badanov>badanov||http://www.rkka.org]' target='_blank'>[http://www.rkka.org]|| 2003-8-13 12:56:07 PM
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#7: Anonymous:
From the Merriam Webster Dictionary: Oxymoron - a combination of contradictory or incongruous words (as cruel kindness).
From the American Heritage Dictionary: Oxymoron - A rhetorical figure in which incongruous or contradictory terms are combined, as in a deafening silence and a mournful optimist.
So, yes, Senate Intelligence is a contradiction in terms. |
| Posted by: Tibor|| 2003-8-13 2:40:44 PM
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#8: Guys, let's not forget who's got the majority in the Senate. The party, which, in the words of its favorite harridan, harpy, gibbering commentator (Ann Coulter) referred to compromise as date rape! If the Republicans don't want this to move forward it won't. |
| Posted by: Not Mike Moore|| 2003-8-13 2:45:14 PM
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#9: The reason our Armed Forces are so successful is because the commanders have the FLEXIBILITY to fight the battle. Making a Commander gain approval every time he wants employ SpecOps for a certain situation would be a HUGE mistake. Next they will want to approve troop movements and bombing targets (That was the FAILED model in Vietnam). Stephen Cambone must be a big fan of the Soviet doctrine that centralizes all decisions with the political apparatus.
Someone hasn't been reading his Art of War (Sun Zi) ... the liberals, of course ;-) but he did note that two of the most important elements of battle were control on the ground, and the real need for spies (the sole form of SpecOps back in the Warring States period). There's a famous incident where he demostrated to a king by setting up a king's harem as an impromptu unit, then executing the two "commanding officers" for negligence - refusing the king's plea for mercy, to demonstrate that so as the king could do nothing against this, he could do even less with an army deployed far away. (See both delays in the relaying of orders/intelligence, and common sense.)
Incidentally, didn't the Soviets have an instance where their centralization cost them dearly? (The USS Clueless noted that in the Korean War, Chinese centralization - ironic for a people who produced Sun Zi - prevented them from extrapolating and capitalizing [excuse the pun :-D] on any tactical victories, which were always followed by powerful counterattacks from the post-MacArthur commander of US Forces Korea.) |
| Posted by: Lu Baihu>Lu Baihu|| 2003-8-13 3:18:42 PM
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#10: The Democrats are so anti-american that they have to hamstring anything that is effective.
Remember the little piece of legislation that lead to the fall of Saigon...Democrats passed a bill that forbid military aid to the South.
Remember the little piece of legislation that got Ollie North in trouble...bill forbidding military aid to rebels fighting a marxist regime in Nicurfreakinagua....
This piece of legislation and the two examples above are essentially violation of the separation of powers provisions of the Constitution. Seems the founding fathers came up with this inconvenient thing that says the President will conduct foreign policy...Congress cannot limit the Presidents ability to conduct foreign policy.
I think this little tidbit should be run up the flag pole and the writers, lets see, Graham and the other minority members of the Senate Intelligence(??) Committee, should be publically humiliated.
What a bunch of crap. |
| Posted by: SOG475>SOG475|| 2003-8-13 3:57:00 PM
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| #11: This MUST be vetoed. This president has gained much respect for making efforts not to repeat the lethal mistakes of Viet Nam. To allow this to pass would again have politicians deciding which bridges to bomb...whoooaa...I'm having a flashback. Say it ain't so! |
| Posted by: Sgt.DT>Sgt.DT|| 2003-8-13 4:39:47 PM
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| #12: This is our illustrious Senate Intelligence Committee notice that even the Republicans have got some weak sisters in the lineup (Snowe, Hagel) but the Dem package is just plain dumb...heard Dick Durbin or Barbra Mikulski or Wyden talk about intelligence lately? They can't even spell it |
| Posted by: Frank G>Frank G|| 2003-8-13 7:09:19 PM
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| #13: There aren't many people in the US Senate that I'd trust to feed my dogs if I went away for the weekend. |
| Posted by: tu3031|| 2003-8-13 10:15:58 PM
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| #1: Times of India is claiming that the smuggler has Mumbai underworld ties. |
| Posted by: 11A5S|| 2003-8-13 12:23:56 AM
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#2: So if I got this right, we started a sting over here. When the guy went to Russia and tried to buy the missiles, the Russians found out, and the first thing they did was tell us.
Wow! As someone who stood watch with 16 nuclear missiles aimed at Russia, this is taking me a bit to get my head around. Very cool. |
| Posted by: Ben>Ben|| 2003-8-13 7:23:05 AM
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#3: Hey,Ben.
Were you on an SSBN,or land based.I use to drive by the silos outside of Tucson,Az.quite often(decomisioned now). |
| Posted by: raptor>raptor|| 2003-8-13 7:58:16 AM
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| #4: There is no credible information that terrorists don't already have these missiles in the U.S. either. In any case I'm glad the U.S. is running stings like this. |
| Posted by: Tresho>Tresho|| 2003-8-13 6:34:11 PM
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| #1: Last time I looked this is what army's are supposed to do, its not all college tuition and job training. I want our troops home as soon as possible, but not before the job is done, besides this is one use of tax dollars that I can stomach, instead of more welfare style entitlements, prescription drug entitlements etc etc |
| Posted by: wills|| 2003-8-13 6:16:05 PM
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| #2: Wills? On the money! BTW they were being issued an ADDITIONAL 2-1+ Liter bottles due to the heat, on top of the water available from the buffalos. These whiners will do anything to get in the news, huh? Wanna bet their loved ones serving either don't know about or are generally embarrassed by the caterwauling? |
| Posted by: Frank G>Frank G|| 2003-8-13 6:59:59 PM
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#3: Let's see,
Panama: Check
Vietnam: Check
Cold Warrior: Check
"Volunteer": Check.
Ok, I've got a dog in this fight. Yeah, war is hell. Always has been. Sometimes you're fighting where you're freezing certain parts of your anatomy off, sometimes it as hot as the inside of a blast furnace - it's called "Global Reach". Sometimes you don't get three squares and a cot. MRE's are miles above C-rats, and there are worse things our troops have eaten (yours truly included - ever had rat? Tastes good, if you're hungry enough). At least in Iraq, there isn't 120+ degree temps and 110% humidity, with every pore pouring forth water that does nothing to cool your overheated body.
There are a MINIMUM of sixteen names on that black marble monument in Washington that I relate to personally. There are another hundred I can relate to personally that have died in "accidents" and "training incidents" - pilots, aircrew, mechanics, truck drivers, and other spooks like myself.
War isn't a game. It's a serious business, run by serious men. People who get into it without understanding that need to leave, immediately. People who want to run the government by the level of whine from the "populace" need to go back and read the Declaration of Independence, all the way to the bottom, where it says "To these goals we dedicate our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." Unfortunately, the whiners usually don't have a clue what "honor" really means.
Any Marine can explain it to them, just ask. |
| Posted by: Old Patriot>Old Patriot||http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm]' target='_blank'>[http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm]|| 2003-8-13 7:25:31 PM
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#4: Old Patriot (OP):
Can't improve on your words or sentiments.
By the way, if folks would take the time to stop and ask the active duty infantry soldiers in Iraq (e.g., 3-15 INF 3ID troops), they'd find that while the guys want to come home they also want to do what they've been trained to do. However, the press has "managed" to find some complainers, like that SSG (E-6) and crew we've all heard beating their collective gums whining and crying.
OP, we both know that the combat arms are made up of folks who are both trained and like to "blow up things and kill people." Always been that way, always will be that way. So, with that in mind, let's both welcome folks who don't understand that to leave the field (to those of us who've "been there, done that.").
PS - I don't have 16 names on the Wall, but there's 6 there that I almost went with. Don't envy you those other 10.
And, by the way, for others (not you) who may not know:
It's Viet Nam (2 words), not 1. It has a meaning (People of the South). Vietnamese are the poeple, Viet Nam is the country.
LVK |
| Posted by: LVK (C-1-18 1ID RVN)>LVK (C-1-18 1ID RVN)|| 2003-8-13 9:57:53 PM
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#5: I am shaking with fury.
In my father's 30 year Army career, he did 2 one year unaccompanied tours, one in Korea and one in Vietnam. My uncle was killed in Vietnam. My first memory of my father is him COMING HOME. Got that?Coming home bringing my uncle home in a box. As my father told me just last year, my grandmother asked to see the body. She looked at his inert face and said, "He died in pain". Nothing else was said of this sacrifice by her ever again.
We moved constantly to every crappy place the Army could send us.
I made 5 strategic deterrent patrols on an old Fleet Ballistic Missile Submarine. That works out to about one year under water incommunicado. As a civilain, I currently spend almost every working day of the week on the road. My wife and I have spent half our 15 year marriage apart. She NEVER complained/complains.
The most important thing MY FAMILY and I ever did or will do was our bit in bringing Communism to its knees. To have undermined that struggle by bitching in the press was unthinkable. The upside of ending totalitarian regimes in Eastern Europe far outweighed any lost sleep on my part or my wife's or mother's part or my grandmother's part.
Our pain, my pain, your soldier's pain is inconsequential in this struggle. The pain will fade, only the results will endure one way or the other.
If I see one more soldier's wife simpering on TV about a lousy year separation in a war zone, I am going to barf. I have ZERO sympathy.
In my family, to have complained was unthinkable. We were expected to suck it up, keep a stiff upper lip and take pride in our sacrifices. We did and do.
The press will use your complaints to undermine your soldier and make his job harder not easier or shorter.
Quit whining. Support your soldier in uniform. Shame on the complainers. DO YOUR DUTY family members. Take strength from others in the same situation.
Soldiers, Sailors, Marines: get the job done. Sleep when your dead. Don't come back until Iraq is on track, you're relieved or you're being carried by 6 men.
All war is a moral struggle as much with yourself as with the enemy. Suck it up!! Any questions?
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| Posted by: jfd|| 2003-8-13 10:43:46 PM
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#6: "This war was supposed to be quick"
say what? We just invaded and beat a fairly large country on the other side of the world! If the "open combat" phase of the war went on for another 6 months, it would STILL be considered a "quick" war, by almost any standard.
BTW, who the hell said it was "supposed to be quick"? The Prez never said that. The SecDef never said that. The Lefties said we would be "bogged down" in a "quagmire". Who said it would be quick? Nobody. |
| Posted by: Uncle Joe>Uncle Joe|| 2003-8-13 11:43:49 PM
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#1: Flying a black flag?
"Yar we be Shia Pirates!" |
| Posted by: Frank G>Frank G|| 2003-8-13 7:02:46 PM
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#2: We should just divide the country into thirds. The unified Iraq helps the ungrateful Shia because they will be the majority and can dominate the nation, and it helps the problem-child Sunni's who still back Saddam and otherwise have no oil of their own. It benefits the treacherous Turks who did not help as agreed and who have sent troops in to cause trouble. It helps Iran and Syria both of whom are covertly helping the bad guys and have Kurdish minorities. And it scares Saudi Arabia who has a shia minority living atop their oil fields.
And it benefits the Kurds who have been our ally for a decade and whom the US betrayed in the past.
It's too obvious. |
| Posted by: Yank|| 2003-8-13 7:14:42 PM
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#3: "...This is an aggression on the sacred Muslim places."
Something tells me that there's a porta potty someplace over there that these assholes consider a "sacred Muslim place". Fuck them. |
| Posted by: tu3031|| 2003-8-13 9:27:22 PM
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#1: Just out of curiousity...what do the Iraqis do all day?
Seethe, check. Whine, check. Something constructive...(crickets)
I'm hoping that the above is based on the vociferations of a noisy minority, and most Iraqis are trying to lift themselves up by the bootstraps...instead of considering picking up a rifle and shooting at an American (or Brit). |
| Posted by: mjh>mjh|| 2003-8-13 2:47:36 PM
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| #2: Wasn't it the UN that mentioned 500,000 dead and displaced? Millions dead of disease? They can't be wrong every single time can they? |
| Posted by: Yank|| 2003-8-13 2:48:38 PM
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#3: Let's see, an Arab UN bureaucrat talks to his class allies (Baathists) in Bagdad and they tell him that they're pissed because the Americans purged them and won't allow them back into power. What this tells me is that we're succeeding!
Based on things I've read in Strategy Page and elsewhere about the power situation, the only reason that the Sunni areas in Bagdad had 24/7 power was because Saddam decreed that the rest of the national power grid would suffer rotating outages in order to supply Bagdad's needs. From this we can infer that anyone carping about power outages is almost certainly from Bagdad (or some other favored Sunni town such as Tikrit) and probably a Baathists (the poor Shia neighborhoods got blackouts, too). So we can assert with a high degree of confidence that Ghassan Salameh (1) never left Bagdad for his fact finding and (2) has only been talking to Baathists. |
| Posted by: 11A5S|| 2003-8-13 3:11:40 PM
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#4: Well, by golly, we'll just have to get a move on, won't we?
One thing that's disappointed me about the Iraqis is that they've had several chances to beat the heck out of Robert Fisk and haven't done so. Don't they respect the tradition set by their Afghan brothers? |
| Posted by: Matt|| 2003-8-13 3:43:25 PM
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| #5: Wonder how long any of the lights would stay if the US Army left? The US is the only thing between civilization and anarchy. Iraq without the US would make Liberia look like the kingdom of peace. |
| Posted by: john>john|| 2003-8-13 8:56:48 PM
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| #6: Ghassan Salameh used to be Lebanon's Minister of Culture. Now, as we all know, Lebanon is under Syrian occupation. All members of the Lebanese government are hand-picked by Syria. Is it surprising that one of Bashir al Assad's (the Syrian leader) minions would be down on the American administration of Iraq? |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei>Zhang Fei|| 2003-8-13 9:03:06 PM
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| #7: Wow! Critics of the U.S. in the U.N.? Let's start charging them rent! |
| Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter)>Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter)|| 2003-8-13 9:58:56 PM
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| #8: ...and in a French newspaper. I'd take this as gospel. |
| Posted by: tu3031|| 2003-8-13 10:07:42 PM
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| #1: For a second, I thought they were Aussies, but I was in error since they're still standing after only one brew ;) |
| Posted by: Bubblehead>Bubblehead|| 2003-8-13 12:34:31 PM
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| #2: Hey, look - they're smiling! |
| Posted by: Scooter McGruder|| 2003-8-13 12:34:59 PM
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#4: "I wonder if their truck has a gun rack?"
It's Iraq, they most likely got a mount for twin 12.7mm AA guns in the back. Just the thing for duck hunting. |
| Posted by: Steve>Steve|| 2003-8-13 1:06:29 PM
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#1: More details: Iraq began pumping fresh crude oil Wednesday through a pipeline to Turkey's Mediterranean coast for the first time since the war, a Turkish oil official said. Iraq began pumping oil at around 4:30 p.m., said the official at Turkey's Ceyhan terminal, speaking on condition of anonymity.
``They started pumping and everything looks normal,'' the official said. ``We don't know for how long they will keep pumping, it is up to Iraqis.'' Iraq resumed oil sales in June, when tankers began shipping out crude that had been in storage at Ceyhan since the war halted exports. But deliveries of fresh supplies from Iraq's northern oil fields were held up, in part because of sabotage. Oil was expected to flow for about 10 days to Ceyhan before any ships would be sent for loading. ``First, we have to wait for the storage tanks to be filled before exports can begin,'' the official said. Ceyhan already has about 500,000 barrels of Iraqi crude in stock and has a total storage capacity of around 8 million barrels.
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| Posted by: Steve>Steve|| 2003-8-13 11:33:49 AM
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#1: Wow...two Mullah Krekar posts in one day! Personally, I think he's missing an awfully good chance to keep quiet, piously pontificating from the safety and comfort of fjord-land while his jihadis prepare his caliphdom.
This article was very interesting and IMHO backs up the "flypaper" theory, as seen in this quote:
"All previous experiences with the activities of the underground organizations proved that they flourish in countries with a chaotic security situation, unchecked borders and the lack of a central government — Iraq is all that," said Muhammad Salah, an expert on militant groups and the Cairo bureau chief of the newspaper Al Hayat. "It is the perfect environment for fundamentalist groups to operate and grow."
Perhaps the Marines can help them tend their garden just a bit. I'm sure Rantburghers can point out some of the most noxious weeds... |
| Posted by: seafarious>seafarious|| 2003-8-13 1:05:42 AM
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| #1: We reward our allies. |
| Posted by: Anonymous|| 2003-8-13 2:17:58 AM
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| #2: gggg |
| Posted by: ffff|| 2003-8-13 4:22:14 AM
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#1: One year is pretty standard for rotation through a combat zone, has been since 'Nam. And conditions are at about their worst now, will get better as fast as possible. But there's 30 years of Saddam and his hard boys, not to mention over a decade of serious embargo, to clean up after. Plus, there's the random bangers to deal with.
It won't be popular with the grunts in any case (what is, short of free booze and broads?) and reups will definitely drop. Look for an enlistment push in the media. |
| Posted by: mojo>mojo|| 2003-8-13 1:01:42 AM
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#2: The interesting problem emerges if we can't recruit mercenaries, I mean peacekeepers, to spell our troops.
Trying to create two or three more divisions from scratch will not be pretty or cheap. |
| Posted by: Hiryu|| 2003-8-13 7:06:17 AM
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| #3: Its the best that can be done. And it appears to be as fast as it can be done. Look, wartime sucks, and I hope that most of the guys and many of their families realize that the only thing worse than this war is losing this war, letting Saddam get back in power, and having to fight another one in a generation or so. |
| Posted by: Ben>Ben|| 2003-8-13 7:20:08 AM
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| #4: 1 year is a standard overseas short tour for unaccompanied troops. Been doing it in Korea forever. Midtour break is standard as well, lots of Korea troops meet the wife at the R&R facility in Hawaii. They could do the same here at the centers in Europe, if they don't need to fly all the way home. |
| Posted by: Steve>Steve|| 2003-8-13 8:47:10 AM
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| #5: Korea was also 1 year (or more), based on a point system - more points for combat personnel. Also, since WWII the U.S. Army has been doing individual replacements. There has been talk recently of unit replacments. This might be a good time to implement that. |
| Posted by: Spot>Spot|| 2003-8-13 8:56:07 AM
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| #6: Surely Vietnam showed that it is better to have long terms troops that gain experience in the region rather then many that come and go. |
| Posted by: Bernardz|| 2003-8-13 10:49:02 AM
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#7: We're going to be in Iraq for a long, long time. The constant infiltration of foreign national boomers is a clear indication that this is the beginning of the final push - either we succeed in building peaceful, democratic nations, or we need to start preparing for an all-out war between Arab and Western civilizations.
I served my "tour" in Nam, and the one-year, mid-year R&R, and that wasn't a problem for me or my spouse (a former military dependent). I do agree, however, it's not a good situation for combat troops. I would suggest that combat formations be rotated as a group, most preferably at the platoon level. I also agree that our military has been cut too deeply, too fast. We need to reconstitute at least two, and possibly five more divisions. The world isn't going to become a better place just by wishing it to. We need to have the manpower available to not only rotate through Iraq, but to rapidly increase that presence significantly if outside forces threaten the stability we are trying to build.
We built complete divisions in months during WWII. There are enough core cadre available in the retired community and recent discharges to create at least one, and possibly two new divisions, with a 50-50 split of former military and new recruits. Such units could be ready for at least rotation duties within a year. We need to get started. |
| Posted by: Old Patriot>Old Patriot||http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm]' target='_blank'>[http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm]|| 2003-8-13 1:02:12 PM
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| #8: Slightly OT, but I found this report on the climate of Iraq. From this it seems to me that if the coalition can hold until the end of September, then the temperature will fall, along with electricity consumption and tempers. This will give over 6 months of relatively mild weather to get things sorted out. |
| Posted by: A|| 2003-8-13 3:19:09 PM
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| #9: Statistically speaking, more murders are commited at 92 degrees F than at any other temperature. Hotter than that you're too tired to go to the trouble, any cooler and you're not as grumpy. |
| Posted by: mojo>mojo|| 2003-8-13 3:53:58 PM
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| #1: Personally I think it is a wrong idea to get involved in US produced mess and call it a "peace keeping mission". I would say let Enron and Texaco hire some Gurka's to guard the oil wells. |
| Posted by: Murat|| 2003-8-13 5:40:45 AM
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| #2: Uday and Qusay are so much more preferrable to US Marines is what Murat is saying. His definition of a mess is liberating a population of 24 million people from under Saddam's boot. |
| Posted by: Ben>Ben|| 2003-8-13 7:26:39 AM
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| #3: A nice liberation it is, probably the Iraqis don't know yet they have been "liberated" and saved for "mass destruction weapons" :) |
| Posted by: Murat|| 2003-8-13 8:10:08 AM
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#4: Hey,Murat.Welcome back,long time no see.That is a good idea,them Gurkha's be some bad-ass troops.
Ben,I see you have already caught on to our old friend,Murat. |
| Posted by: raptor>raptor|| 2003-8-13 8:10:37 AM
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#5: why would enron and texaco hire guards for facilities owned by the Iraqi national oil company?
Turkey realizes that a stable Iraq is in its interest.
The possibility of Turkish troops without a UN mandate helps us gain leverage in GETTING a UN mandate.
For those who keep dissing Indian and Pakistani troops - are you basing this on actual performance in peace keeping missions? The Indian military in particular, is not a particularly inefficient force AFAIK. And teh overstretch issue is SERIOUS. Folks who keep up with military affairs, particularly US Army affairs, like blogger Phil Carter, all seem to think its quite serious. As it is we have a rotation plan that barely gets us through spring 2004, and that assumes an international division replacing the 101st in the winter. There are things that could go better - an Iraqi militia might reduce the need for american forces by a division. On the other hand theres also the prospect of things getting worse - I dont expect they will, but its hardly wise to plan based on best case scenarios. |
| Posted by: liberalhawk|| 2003-8-13 9:27:50 AM
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| #6: Hey Murat? How's that EU-participation thang goin'? Your French friends not so cozy now? I'd welcome Turkey's participation now that things are over but we'll not forget how it went this Spring. |
| Posted by: Frank G>Frank G|| 2003-8-13 9:32:58 AM
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#7: Wow! Welcome back, Murat!
I don't expect that any criteria for Turkish participation in Iraq be any different than US involvement in Liberia: If you've got national interests to protect, get involved. if not, we don't expect you to sacrifice blood and treasure getting involved.
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| Posted by: Ptah>Ptah||HTTP://www.crusaderwarcollege.org]' target='_blank'>[HTTP://www.crusaderwarcollege.org]|| 2003-8-13 10:04:19 AM
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#8: Hello guys thanks for your welcome, nice to see you too.
why would enron and texaco hire guards for facilities owned by the Iraqi national oil company?
The Iraqi national oil company of President Bremer you mean Libby?
OK Ptah you mention the right reason "national interest", that's something different than those artificial reasons summoned four to five months ago, nice to hear that.
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| Posted by: Murat|| 2003-8-13 10:17:38 AM
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#9: LH: I'm really concerned about Pak troops in Iraq given (1) the various problems with the jihadis in Pakland and the susceptibility of the soldiers to the inducements of the bad guys in Iraq (2) the instability of their government (3) their poor performance in Somalia 1993 when they mostly stayed in their barracks. I'm concerned about the Indians because I don't think the Iraqis will respond well to Hindu troops, particularly once the usual jihadis start blabbering on Al-Jismera.
The overstretch issue IS serious; that's why I'm wondering about the rotation plans, tour of service, etc. in another post here. But I think that getting a decent Iraqi milita trained over the next 6 to 12 months would be a better idea than bringing in unreliable troops from elsewhere. I have nothing against the Latin American troops; they can take some of the easy stuff and thus help with our rotation plans.
But in the end, we need an indigenous solution, not a bunch of UN peacekeepers.
Murat: welcome back. 1) Bremer is not president; he's the chief administrator -- much more powerful. 2) GWB did cite national interests four to five months ago along with the other issues he cited. You could go to the White House website and read the speeches he made back then; they're all there. 3) As long as the Turkish government doesn't have an ulterior motive (e.g., reconstituting the Ottoman Empire) and can respect Iraqi sensitivities over their presence, I'd have no problem with Turkish troops helping out in Iraq. They're well-trained and capable. 4) Enron is out of business. 5) Texaco will compete with everyone else, including in the end (I suspect) Yukos and TotalFinaElf. |
| Posted by: Steve White>Steve White|| 2003-8-13 10:55:21 AM
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#10: re Indians - i am just not convinced the locals in Iraq take the jihadi anti-Indian line. How about put them in the Shiite areas of Baghdad - the Shia dont seem that interested in Kashmir, et al. And Hindu troops should be great "flypaper".
Re: Pakis - more of a problem - but this isnt Somalia, theres plenty of US troops to do the hard stuff. How about putting them in Kurdistan - the main job there is watching the borders with Iran and Turkey, not too much if any local police work. Pakis should be good at watching mountain borders, and no Pashtun here to worry about. That would relieve the 173rd airborne. |
| Posted by: liberalhawk|| 2003-8-13 11:17:02 AM
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| #11: wrt to Iraqis - it takes time to train troops - iraqi army we're talking about a goal of 40,000 in like 2 years. Militia, who will be less well trained, is a temporary solution, and smaller in number. To get through the crunch of the next 18 months we very much need foreigners. Indians and Pakistanis are ALREADY trained, some experienced. And its a bit optimistic to simply assume that Iraqi troops will all prove reliable. I support the Wolfie plan - but to assume we can overnight create an Iraqi army that doesnt have any of the problems of 3rd world armies strikes me as a tad optimistic. |
| Posted by: liberalhawk|| 2003-8-13 11:21:51 AM
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| #12: Looking at the latest news it looks as if around 10.000 Turkish troops are going to be deployed, if of course the parliament approves to this time. I am curious what kind of regulations will be met, judging from the press a Polish command over Turkish troops seems to have been refused by the general staff. |
| Posted by: Murat|| 2003-8-13 11:24:08 AM
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| #13: Good to have you back at Rantburg, Murat: polite voices of dissent are always welcome. I think the presence of Turkish troops would be a positive development, so long as it is handled delectably so as not to upset the Kurds. Of course, neither we Americans nor the Turkish are known for being delicate.... |
| Posted by: Secret Master>Secret Master||www.budgetwarrior.com]' target='_blank'>[www.budgetwarrior.com]|| 2003-8-13 12:41:31 PM
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#14: Welcome back, Murat.
Perhaps it should be wiser to reset the combined entries before hiding the comments at, say, 200... |
| Posted by: Anonymous|| 2003-8-13 12:46:22 PM
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#16: Welcome back, Murat, we've really missed you. That does NOT mean we won't hand you your head in a paper bag, but we'll try to be friendly doing it! 8^)
Turkey would be the nation of choice for guarding the oil line to TURKEY, for patrolling the border between Iraq and Syria, and for securing the area along the Turkish border, over to where the Kurds have been granted authority. The only problem area would be along the Turkish/Kurdish line of control. Another area where Turkish troops would be most welcome is the mountainous area north of the Shatt al Arab, marking the border between Iraq and Iran. I also think that ALL the nations that are contributing peacekeepers should have a headquarters element in Baghdad (to facilitate coordination and cooperation), and also provide a few military police to help secure the peace in Baghdad. |
| Posted by: Old Patriot>Old Patriot||http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm]' target='_blank'>[http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm]|| 2003-8-13 1:14:32 PM
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#17: a Polish command over Turkish troops seems to have been refused by the general staff.
LOL!! Still holding a grudge after 300 years or so? I don't blame the Turks. Gotta start reading the Polish press. I want to see how this gets spun. Hilarious!! |
| Posted by: Raphael|| 2003-8-13 1:23:28 PM
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#18: Murat?!?!?
Cool. |
| Posted by: growler|| 2003-8-13 5:28:21 PM
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| #19: Hi Murat: Saw you over on a BBC message board the other day doing a little America bashing. Glad to see you're still "on message." |
| Posted by: 11A5S|| 2003-8-13 5:42:26 PM
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#20:
"a Polish command over Turkish troops seems to have been refused by the general staff."
The Little Red Hen makes yet another appearance WRT Turkish integration into Europe.
"LOL!! Still holding a grudge after 300 years or so?"
The Turks have a different memory of "September 11" than we short-historied Americans. Oh, to be in old Vienna...
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| Posted by: Ernest Brown||saturninretrograde.blogspot.com]' target='_blank'>[saturninretrograde.blogspot.com]|| 2003-8-14 12:22:55 AM
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| #1: Interesting historical intersection, those three. It'd be even more interesting to know how much diplomatic arm-twisting went on. |
| Posted by: mojo>mojo|| 2003-8-13 1:08:15 AM
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| #2: Just to put this in perspective, my research into Latin American troops provide only one entry about El Salvador troops in WWII. According to that source, the nation sent 36 men and three officers to Europe as part of an artillery platoon. Brazil's commitment to Europe consisted of the Brazilian Expeditionary Force, a brigade-size element of about 7500 men. We could use such a commitment in Iraq. |
| Posted by: Old Patriot>Old Patriot||http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm]' target='_blank'>[http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm]|| 2003-8-13 1:23:26 PM
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| #3: azerbaijan is sending 150 troops. |
| Posted by: liberalhawk|| 2003-8-13 1:36:43 PM
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| #1: Score cards at the ready! |
| Posted by: Flaming Sword|| 2003-8-13 3:46:01 PM
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| #2: And ponchos for those of you in the first three rows... |
| Posted by: seafarious|| 2003-8-13 4:16:55 PM
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| #3: Should've let John Bolton make the announcement |
| Posted by: Frank G>Frank G|| 2003-8-13 4:49:25 PM
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| #4: Oh, this should be good. KCNA may have to bring some of the real fire breathers out of retirement. If they haven't shot them yet. |
| Posted by: tu3031|| 2003-8-13 9:59:39 PM
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#1: "... that I can be useful"
You stopped being useful in 1959, Fidel. |
| Posted by: True German Ally|| 2003-8-13 2:03:17 PM
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| #1: Let's hope it's a congenital thing throughout the family |
| Posted by: Frank G>Frank G|| 2003-8-13 9:33:45 AM
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#2: "Arafat, who has been kept by Israel under virtual house arrest for more than a year and a half at his headquarters in the West Bank city of Ramallah...."
House arrest, my ass. The little jerk can leave the West Bank anytime he wants to; 'course, he probably can't come back.... (at least, not if the Israelis have any sense) |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut>Barbara Skolaut|| 2003-8-13 3:46:22 PM
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| #3: Is it me, or has anyone else noticed that none of Yasshole's family seems to live in the so-called Palestine? |
| Posted by: tu3031|| 2003-8-13 9:49:31 PM
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| #1: No $25K from Saddam this time either. |
| Posted by: Dave|| 2003-8-13 3:52:33 AM
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#2: Ashes to ashes
Dust to dust
Semtex to semtex |
| Posted by: .com|| 2003-8-13 5:44:50 AM
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| #3: should put this in Middle East category |
| Posted by: Frank G>Frank G|| 2003-8-13 9:39:03 AM
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#4: Don't worry. I'm sure the Al-Aqsa chapter of "Hovel for Humanity" will be down there chop-chop to rectify this situation.
Well,...maybe not. |
| Posted by: tu3031|| 2003-8-13 9:53:32 PM
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#1: thanks, Paul!
very interesting.
I want to note down those 15 Aussie Islamists and keep a watch list on them for mentions in the media, quotes, transcripts of speeches, articles etc. |
| Posted by: Anon1|| 2003-8-13 7:11:06 AM
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| #2: How 'bout a stray cruise missle followed by our most heartfelt sympathys and apologies for such and unfortunate happening. |
| Posted by: Jim K>Jim K|| 2003-8-13 8:53:28 AM
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| #3: They're too spread out -- and some of them hidden -- for that. This is a glimpse of the enemy high command. |
| Posted by: Fred>Fred|| 2003-8-13 10:40:47 AM
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| #4: If I were the Mossad I'd make exactly this type of webpage and try to get some of these fellas to post on the bulletin boards and stuff. I'd also promote infighting that way. Nothing like a little internal squabbling to distract the bad guys. |
| Posted by: Yank|| 2003-8-13 11:12:14 AM
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| #5: Thanks, Paul. The site sounds like the anti-Rantburg! |
| Posted by: 11A5S|| 2003-8-13 12:14:50 PM
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#6: Sounds like it's time to re-introduce the hantavirus into Saudi fleas, and ensure there are PLENTY of fleas around this group of nutcases.
These dorks are providing all the ammunition the rest of the world needs to come down on them with several million tons of ordinance. Now if we can only find a few guys on this side willing to take the proper steps...
Keep getting together in one place, guys, and keep spewing. The spittle-chasing missiles are in the final stages of development. |
| Posted by: Old Patriot>Old Patriot||http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm]' target='_blank'>[http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm]|| 2003-8-13 1:46:18 PM
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#7: Another issue to note is the absence, so far, of persons from Jordan, Algeria, Syria, and Lebanon, and the very few from the Gulf States.
There aren't any blank spaces on the Arabic founders page. I wish I could read it... I hope that someone a lot smarter than me at the CIA or Mossad is.
Did anyone see the poll? If click on "Oppose," do they send a suicide bomber to your home? |
| Posted by: 11A5S|| 2003-8-13 1:59:02 PM
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| #8: Anyone know where the '.ws' in the address is? Could be 'Wahabbi Sh*#hole' but I doubt it. Western Samoa? Western Sahara? |
| Posted by: Ned|| 2003-8-13 7:33:47 PM
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#10: There are two Americans of Arab origin, quite known figures - Dr. Ahmad Sharbinia lecturer in the American Open University in Colorado, of Egyptian origin, and Sheikh Walid Manisi, the Imam of the mosque in that university.
A mosque? An Imam? Ya don't say?!
Hopefully, dear old AOU has been wired for sound since about April 29th. |
| Posted by: tu3031|| 2003-8-13 9:44:21 PM
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