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Islamic expert: Take off veil
Not looking good for Sultaana...
A Muslim woman who refuses to unveil for a drivers license picture should do so to further the state's interest in public safety, an Islamic law expert testified at her civil trial Wednesday. Khaled Abou El Fadl, a law professor at the University of California-Los Angeles who specializes in Islam, the Middle East and human rights, said he believes Sultaana Freeman could uncover her face for a drivers license photograph because it serves a specific, limited purpose.
So the state of Florida has to fly this guy in from UCLA to testify in this rinky dink trial that shouldn't even be in court? How much did that cost? When she loses, either send her or the ACLU the bill.
| If she's gonna have a veil over her face, why bother to take the picture? It won't show anything. Might as well just borrow one from somebody else... |
El Fadl, who discussed Shariah, or Islamic law and Middle Eastern customs, said there are times when veiled Muslim women uncover their faces and bodies out of necessity. Exceptions include aging women and marriage seekers and for medical reasons, voter registration, test taking, writing wills and burial. "Accordingly, she would clearly be able to show her face" for a drivers license, El Fadl said.
Maybe Sultaana's like, really, really UGLY! Anybody think that might be a possibility?
| Maybe she just decided to quit shaving. Maybe she's not, ummm... female? How do we know she's not a cross-dresser with a moustache? |
Howard Marks, Freeman's attorney, sought to disqualify El Fadl as a witness and had sharp exchanges with him because he said El Fadl does not know Freeman and cannot address her deeply held conviction that she wear a veil at all times. "I don't know what motivates her," El Fadl said under oath.
Maybe she's one of those "look at me" people like Pledge of Allegiance guy last year. Who's to say. But it got me a nice Florida vacation for a couple of days.
| Shariah doesn't take into account anybody's "deeply held convictions." If it's in the book or the hadith, you do it, otherwise they cut something off. |
El Fadl was one of three state witnesses who testified during the second day of Freeman's non-jury trial, which ends today in Orlando. Circuit Court Judge Janet Thorpe must decide whether law-enforcement issues outweigh personal silliness civil liberties in a contested case that is being televised nationwide on CourtTV.
Hey, Sultaana! You're on CourtTV! Next come the talk shows!
Under cross-examination, El Fadl said there are minority groups within Islam's two prominent sects â the Sunni and Shiites â that wear veils because of their interpretation of Islam. On Wednesday, Freeman said she is a member of the Salafiyyah group. "In the long run, his testimony supports our position that Sultaana Freeman is exercising her right to freely exercise her religion," Marks said. "I still don't think he's relevant. I wish he was, but I don't think he hurt us at all."
So why'd you try to get his testimony tossed? ACLU guy knows he's dead. But he's on CourtTV! Next come the talk shows!
| Maybe even a book deal. "Gaming the System: How I burned Florida taxpayer dollars and got to be on the teevee"... |
El Fadl's testimony contradicts that of Saiful-Islam Abdul-Ahad, a U.S. Muslim convert and University of Central Florida academic adviser who testified on Freeman's behalf Tuesday. Abdul-Ahad, 54, a friend of Freeman's husband, said Freeman's interpretation of the Quran justifies her wearing a veil at all times except when facing death or danger.
This is the best they got? A buddy of her husbands is an Islamic expert? Fly me down. I'll testify for her. I could use a couple of days in Florida.
El Fadl has testified as an expert witness on behalf of Muslim-American women fighting for their right to wear a hijab, or head covering, at work. However, on Wednesday he said Freeman's insistence on wearing a veil was "rare."
| "Yep. Even in Islam, we rarely see that particulary combination of vanity and dim-bulbery... |
"I've never seen someone decide to wear the niqab [full-face veil] the way she claims she should," said the Kuwaiti-born naturalized U.S. citizen, who has addressed Muslim women's issues extensively in academic journals and as an imam, or religious leader, for the past 20 years in the United States.
Yeah, but her guy's an academic advisor at UCF. So, there!
Marks loudly protested El Fadl's description of Muslim customs in Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries. "We do have a constitution here. We do have a Bill of Rights and a Florida Constitution with a Religious Freedom Restoration Act," Marks told Thorpe.
I love it when ACLU lawyers, like, totally panic!
Jason Vail, one of two lawyers from the Attorney General's Office representing the state, later praised El Fadl and called his 16-page curriculum vitae "impressive." "What Islamic law is all about as it relates to veiling, we've only scratched the surface," Vail said outside the courtroom. "The relationship of Islamic law to Islamic practice is a very complicated issue."
| "This trial could last years, burning dollars every day..." |
El Fadl's testimony followed that of Sandra Lambert, who oversees the highway safety agency's drivers license division. Lambert admitted that internal agency policies â not state statutes â sometimes specify requirements for obtaining a drivers license. Marks has argued that the law is vague and does not require someone to uncover their face for a photograph or prohibit people from using mustaches, beards or wigs.
| Or maybe they could just substitute a photo of a can of pineapple. Who'd know? |
"Santa Claus could come in and have a photo taken, right?" Marks remarked with sarcasm.
If she wins, he'll be by for his picture. Along with the Easter Bunny and Groucho and whoever else wants to come...
Lambert replied: "We don't allow costumes." To which Marks asked, "Where's that in the statutes? You don't know what's policy, and you're making this up as you go along," Marks said.
If it's not written down, it's meat on the table for an ACLU lawyer. Unless it's a gun control law. Point: ACLU.
| "I stand by might right to wear a cape and a funny hat to have my driver's license picture taken! We have a constitution in this country, and I have a right to look like an idiot! Right this moment, I'm wearing ladies' underwear, and you can do nothing, nothing about it!" |
Florida Highway Patrol Lt. Col. Billy Dickson, a 39-year veteran who has worked with Lambert on a new digital drivers license database for law-enforcement agencies, argued that security concerns mandate full-face photographs that are "essential" for identification purposes."The drivers license must and should contain a photograph that gives a true representation of the person who holds that license," Dickson testified.
| Otherwise "this space intentionally left blank" on the license would do... |
According to state records, one other Florida Muslim woman was issued a state photo ID card with a veil in 2001. Like Freeman, former Jacksonville resident Mattie Glover was asked to return to a drivers license office for a new picture in 2001. She never went back, and the state also canceled her ID card.
| But they can't go pick it up from her, because nobody knows what she looks like, do they? |
I'm sure she's glued to Court TV.
Posted by: tu3031 2003-05-29 |
