I wondered whether the complete change in cultures in England will allow the maintenance of First World Civilization there, given that the people who built the civilization aren't having kids, emigrate often, and generally are being absorbed into an entirely different culture -- indeed with the enthusiastic cooperation of the Crown and government.

McCarthy thinks industrialization is irreversible.

I haven't thought this through; but the enormous crop yields of the past decades, over 160% more food grown on essentially the same land, require intensive fertilizers; this is a very high energy industry; can the energy and transportation grid be maintained? High energy civilizations look to me to be more fragile than most suppose. I did a good bit of work on that in studying for Lucifer's Hammer and some of the High Justice stories; and like Jane Jacobs I think Dark Ages are easier to come by than one may think.

In a Dark Age it is not that we have forgotten how to do something: it is that we have forgotten that it ever was done. As for instance we no longer remember that even in the legally segregated Old South over 90% of all school children, black or white, learned to read.

I hope John is right; but I am not sure I agree that civilization is irreversible. There used to be a country called Rhodesia. Are we not moving in that direction in all of the West, beginning with Europe. Are we not moving toward instant gratification, contempt for deferred rewards, rejection of savings, decline of literacy and numeracy? All over Europe? With the enthusiastic assistance of the bureaucracy? Or have I misread the situation?