|
âWe should wake up now:â an interview with Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal
Bin Talal is the guy Giuliani told to keep his check. His mother was Lebanese, and he was thinking of buying the country last year. He's been touted by syncophants and toadies as prime minister material...
Q: In your opinion, which is more important, political or economic reform?
A: They are equally important. Politics is linked to the economy and vice versa. Also, there is no true reform without a comprehensive political and economic reform. (Crown) Prince Abdullah prioritized changing peopleâs way of thinking over political reform and political reform over economic reform. Like Prince Abdullah, I believe the change in mentality should be prioritized.
| Unlike the princelings, I think the two are intimately connected... |
Q: Prince Abdullah always asserts his disavowal of extremism and warns against it. What do you think about the extremism we suffer from? Is it just armed terrorism?
A: Extremism influences a small number of our people. Extremists have tried to impose their narrow perspective on the whole of society. We have to stop them. After the Riyadh events (the May 12 bombing that killed 35 people), the leadership took a clear political decision to strike extremism with an iron fist. Prince Abdullah, in his famous speech delivered after the events, conveyed the same meaning as President George W. Bushâs words after the Sept. 11 attacks, that is, âeither you are with us or you are against us.â They did not agree on what is to be said, but it was a spontaneous reaction. When one defends his country, he uses that strong logic. There is no place for choices here, because the country is at stake.
| Prince Abdullah's words weren't quite matched by his deeds, nor was the Soddy security establishment up to the job of actually hunting down and exterminating AQ. They're much better suited to beating up women who show an ankle in public. Despite the evidence of the corpses, he still tried the accomodation route with the vitriol-spewing clerics, and they didn't run to ground the Bad Guys who got away in the sporadic shootouts they've had in the past five months. The results could be seen this weekend, with the corpse count up to 17 and probably to rise some more. |
Q: You spoke about the need for reform in the Arab and Islamic world, and Crown Prince Abdullah addressed that issue at the recent Organization of the Islamic Conference in Malaysia. However, some say that these are US demands and that focusing on reform is a US demand. Are these concerns legitimate?
A: We live in a globalized world. Anything that affects America, the West and the rest of the world will doubtlessly affect us. The Sept. 11 events shook and harmed the whole world. Therefore, whatâs wrong with combining internal demands for reform with the international trend to treat the cause of fundamentalism and terrorism? This does not mean that we yielded to US or international demands. America came to our region after the shock it received and after the toppling of the Taleban in Afghanistan and the Iraqi regime. We now have direct borders with America, whether we like it or not.
Syria has borders with America, as well as Turkey and Iran. We should take these matters into consideration. No doubt there are internal demands to start the reform process, but international events have sped up the reform movement. We might be embarrassed to reveal such a thing, and our values and independence might prevent us from saying it publicly. No movement will be successful unless it comes from the inside. The municipal elections announced by Prince Abdullah and Prince Sultan through the Cabinet are an answer to peopleâs demands and a clear sign of the leadershipâs vision of the future. Reforms came from the inside, but we live in a world similar to a small village and there is no question that international demands sped up the reform movement. This is not a source of shame, but rather comes from awareness and a good understanding of the situation.
"Hain't nobody tells us what to do!... But we thought of it ourselves!"
Once again â as usual â they're much more concerned with their "dignity" than with their accomplishments. |
Q: Just as there are forces in the country and within the leadership that lead and stimulate the reform process, it is natural that other forces call for patience, a case not specific to Saudi Arabia only. Are you optimistic that Saudi society, which you know very well, will welcome reform swiftly and broadly?
A: I am optimistic because all parties want reform. The greatest evidence lies in the positive reception that was expressed after the intention to hold municipal elections was announced. We should not underestimate the electoral process, which will start with municipal councils.
| "Kind of like the Americans did in Iraq â no, no! I mean, nothing like the Americans did in Iraq! Nothing like it. Our way is... ummm... different." |
It is the green light to what will eventually come. I tell you that women must vote and that there will be elections for the Shura Council. Some people may not like what I say, but I am predicting what will happen in a few years. Yes, some people fear that their personal interests may be harmed, but they are a few. The reform process might seem slow.
| "And believe me, we'll make it as slow as we possibly can..." |
Q: There is certainly a dialogue between your generation and the old generation. Can you tell us about that dialogue?
A: I assure you that we have a dialogue with our leadership. They are aware of the countryâs aspirations. We talk with the utmost transparency.
| "We also avoid taking long drives in the countryside and we have food tasters..." |
Q: What is the problem then? The Cabinet made important decisions, such as the recent decision to hold elections. But until now, no committee was formed to determine the electionsâ procedures. Decisions are being made, but is execution slow?
A: I admit that the implementation of decisions is slow. Governance decisions in Saudi Arabia are faster than the government.
| "We try not to pay much attention to the kicking and screaming. We're trying to reform a system that's ossified, using the ossified mechanisms of the system. It doesn't make much sense, except that it's the only mechanism we've got." |
Q: What is the solution then?
A: The solution is to carry out governance decisions. Frankly, those who cannot do that should leave or be changed, like what happened in the last Cabinet reshuffle. Many ministers departed for those reasons. The economy minister, for instance, departed due to his lack of control over the issue of Saudi Arabiaâs membership in the World Trade Organization. After his departure, the membership process was sped up. Europe has approved our membership and we have serious negotiations with America, Canada and Japan, which are the three remaining countries that have not approved our admittance yet. Has nobody asked why the former economy minister departed? He left for that reason. We have unsuccessfully negotiated for seven years with the WTO.
| "If a relatively simple matter like that is so convoluted, what's bringing the country out of the 7th century and into, say, the 18th or even the 19th century going to be like? |
Q: In addition to the problem in the government, we have an old and conservative mentality. Doesnât it affect reforms? Let us take you for example. You are a businessman, open to the world, but you live in two different worlds. You own companies that open cinemas throughout the world, but you cannot open a cinema in your own country. You own large shares in companies that strive to make the internet faster than light and you are aware of the restrictions imposed on the internet in our country. How do you adapt yourself to that contradiction between how you live abroad and the desires you have for your country?
A: It is a good question. Rationing the access to internet abolishes the purpose of the internet. This rationing process is ridiculous. You cannot stop those who have access to the internet. Even if they have to pay more, they would go through Bahrain or America and reach their goal.
| "You simply can't keep people away from the titty sites. Once they find a way to the titty sites, it's all down hill. Pretty soon they've moved on to the hard stuff â National Review, the Washington Times, or Rantburg. Then we're in big trouble." |
As for the issue of cinemas, I am surprised that there is any reason to prevent their opening. All artistic production distributed in the kingdom is censored. If an individual is allowed to watch a video at home, why wouldnât he watch a film with other people at the theater? Of course, men would be separated from women.
| "I mean, God knows what'll happen when the lights go down if you're sitting in a theater next to a close female relative..." |
Q: Do you believe we have asked ourselves why there are young people who kill themselves and kill other Muslims? Have we sincerely established this dialogue among ourselves?
A: No, we have not. We have not asked the question frankly and directly. I believe that question should have been asked just after the Sept. 11 events, and not after the May 12 attack. We should have asked why 15 young Saudi men perpetrated the Sept. 11 terrorist act. Letâs stop being naive and say that Israel was behind them or that their scheme goes beyond Saudisâ thinking. We should have asked that question before May 12. Do we need another operation?
| The interview was obviously before this weekend... |
Letâs stop beating around the bush. We should wake up now and ask ourselves why we have fundamentalism. Why this extremism, this fanaticism? We have started to recognize the problem, but not deeply. For instance, we arrested some sheikhs in the mosques and prohibited them from saying illogical things such as calling for the destruction of Christians and Jews while Islam permits marriage to Christian or Jewish women. Prohibition is not sufficient. I want to eradicate these thoughts from the mind.
| The problem lies with making fastidious distinctions between Hamas and al-Qaeda. The Paleostinians are probably right in saying that there won't be peace in the Middle East until the problem of Paleostine is solved â but the solution has to involve the eradication of the boomer organizations, as Bush demanded as a precondition for the road map, and preferably the boomers themselves. When you justify one form of eye-rolling, AK-rattling extremism you've justified them all. The roots of both Hamas and AQ lie with the same set of Soddy sheikhs and princes, the money flowing down the same sorts of charity-driven pipelines. The one is "good" terrorism â I beg your pardon, freedumb fighting â and the other, by virtue of being a threat to the princes, is "bad" terrorism. |
Posted by: Fred Pruitt 2003-11-10 |
