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| Iraq | |
| U.S.: At Least 7 Iraqis Killed in Mosul Protest | |
| 2003-04-16 | |
| This is a re-run from yesterday... At least seven Iraqis were killed by U.S. forces during a violent demonstration in the northern city of Mosul on Tuesday, a U.S. official at Central Command in Qatar said on Wednesday. Brigadier General Vincent Brooks said demonstrators fired at marines and special operations forces near a government building the Americans had occupied in the center of the city. "Fire was directed at the marines and special operations forces in this complex. It was aimed fire and aimed fire was returned against some of the demonstrators, against some of the agitators climbing the wall of the compound. It was lethal fire," he told a daily news conference.
Hello Joe, I guess you are asking yourself now, how it is possible that the news appears now while it was know yesterday too. Here you have it from Reuters, albeit in a censured half truth version without mentioning shooting into the crowds and the hundreds of wounded. | |
| Posted by:Murat |
| #30 Hundreds of wounded? C'mon Murat, you can do better than that. Our guys took fire from the crowd and from some snipers. What were they supposed to do - allow themselves to get killed? Today Mosul is quiet. Putting the fear of God into the bad guys and the locals may have done everyone some good. Sometimes you just have to show folks who's boss. |
| Posted by: FOTSGreg 2003-04-16 13:40:08 |
| #29 "Frank you seem to like that Armenian hoax genocide, question how many Armenians died then? hundred, thousand, million, zillion?" Ha! "Hoax"! Best one yet, Murat. 1.5 million Armenians murdered is what I've read. But...oh, look.... Murat's long gone. |
| Posted by: tu3031 2003-04-16 13:15:00 |
| #28 Dar---I have been thinking about what you said, and there is some good about Murat's rants. It does bring out the best in us, as we try to reason with him. It does force us to look inward at our motives---good self examination. So the balance is positive, as long as we don't blow the server. Boy, ole Murat is a force, er, posting multiplier, heh heh. Now anonymo, he is just a foamer...... |
| Posted by: Alaska Paul 2003-04-16 12:59:29 |
| #27 Dar, agree with your last post, I was not there to see it with my own eyes, but delibrately hiding the news as some US media are trying which surfaces only by efforts of the AFP doesn't make the US very reliable, too much censorship which covers up piles of shhhht like this. You make an assertion of Iraqis shooting their own kin, it would make sense if they controlled the media, they don't, they are the ones occupied with the US censoring, where once in a while some AL Jazeera or AFP reporter can slip uncovering what is beeing hided for the public forcing centcom to fabricate some amateurishly story about selfdefence, shooting at rooftops (that causes hundreds of wounded). |
| Posted by: Murat 2003-04-16 10:10:57 |
| #26 Murat, you are a facist piece of shit. I will never offer anything other than insults in reply to your posts since your own posts are nothing more than blatant manipulations of matters meant to insult the rest of us. Get a heart and an education you immoral wretch. |
| Posted by: Flaming Sword 2003-04-16 10:10:53 |
| #25 kinda redundant isn't that Ptah? |
| Posted by: Frank G 2003-04-16 10:07:40 |
| #24 Shooting on the crowd and blaming the Americans is exactly the sort of situation that the gunmen wanted to create. And Murat is precisely the kind of person they wanted to fool. |
| Posted by: Ptah 2003-04-16 10:02:50 |
| #23 Cypriots, Armenians, Kurds - Kurdistan Hey Murat - I thought we'd agreed on a protocol that you would post with subjects in all capitals so we would know when to scroll past? I don't need to waste my time on your piffle. please post all caps, ok? |
| Posted by: Frank G 2003-04-16 09:58:39 |
| #22 Hey Dar, The obverse (inverse? converse?) of that question is who has the most to gain from attributing casualties to the American forces? Perhaps back-stabbing allies who did their darndest to delay and obstruct the war effort in the first place (see Turkey, France, Germany). As to Murat's comment regarding the checkpoint shootings, the difference is that the Marines actually hit what they were shooting at. Unfortunately, it was a non-compliant vehicle. One would not expect Murat to grasp the subtle and complex point that upholding that precedent (e.g. shooting vehicles that did not stop) may ultimately have saved lives by invalidating the suicide bombers' strategy of bum-rushing checkpoints with civilians as shields. |
| Posted by: mjh 2003-04-16 09:50:53 |
| #21 I have said it before, and I will say it again, Saddam and his regime have imprisoned, tortured, slaughtered and beaten down more of the Iraqui people, his own people whom he was supposed to protect and lead (that is what rulers are supposed to do, you know), his own population to whom he owed much better service than was rendered (leading a people means you have a responsibility towards that people - a responsibility he apparently told to piss off out the back) - he and his did far more damage to that country's inhabitants than our military would ever conceive of perpetrating. How many children have we thrown in jail for not joining the Fedayeen youth? For that matter, how many teenagers have we thrown in jail recently for being respectfully proud of their own heritage? One other question: our marines use AK-47's? Really. |
| Posted by: Tadderly 2003-04-16 09:48:47 |
| #20 "Shooting their own kin"? Christ, Murat, how ignorant can you be? Saddam and his boys have NEVER had any qualms about raping, torturing, or executing their own "kin"! And how do we know the gunmen weren't Syrian, Palestinian, or some other import who grew up on a diet of your jihad propaganda? I fully concede that the Americans have hurt innocents in this war, and, as I was not there to see this incident, I can not claim with 100% certainty that all of those people were not hurt by Americans. Yet, you were not there either, and you can't claim that all of them were hurt by Americans either. You still did not answer my question, Murat: who has the most to gain by shooting innocents? The Americans, who rely on public support and international goodwill to support their efforts, or the Islamic paramilitary who want the Americans out and to give us a black eye in the world press? |
| Posted by: Dar 2003-04-16 09:45:18 |
| #19 Yes Dishman, like all those women and children shot at checkpoints by marines with AK-47 weapons. |
| Posted by: Murat 2003-04-16 09:28:47 |
| #18 The AK-47 is a spray-and-pray weapon. They do gain by killing civilians and blaming Americans, though. This is not a new tactic. |
| Posted by: Dishman 2003-04-16 09:22:24 |
| #17 Yeah sure Dar, I guess the Iraqis gain by shooting their own kin, the sharpshooting skillfull hillbillies have smart amunition don't they. |
| Posted by: Murat 2003-04-16 09:11:27 |
| #16 Gee, Murat, you're right--if they were firing at the rooftop, how did those people in the crowd get shot? Must have been shot by the gunmen trying to spray the Americans! We've already seen how indiscriminate they are in their use of women and children as shields. Nothing like shooting a few innocents wherever there are Americans nearby so you can blame the Americans. Really, Murat, who has more to gain by killing and wounding civilians--the Americans, or the Islamic paramilitary trash? |
| Posted by: Dar 2003-04-16 08:56:23 |
| #15 Nice try Dar, but the US spokesman said: "There were protesters outside, 100 to 150, there was fire, we returned fire. We didn't fire at the crowd, but at the top of the building. There were at least two gunmen. I don't know if they were killed. The firing was not intensive but sporadic, and lasted up to two minutes." Well I guess the guys are very familiar with shooting, they manage to kill dozens in the crowds by sheer firing on rooftops, brilliant skills indeed! |
| Posted by: Murat 2003-04-16 08:41:46 |
| #14 "State Department, his prime foe, recently leaked an internal report which concluded that Mr Chalabi had little support, even in his own Shia community" the press which keeps repeating this, doesnt seem to have any idea how the federal govt works. There is no indication of who did this report, who requested it, or at what level. Some low level bureaucrat could have decided on their own to write this at lunch hour, and then "leaked" it to the press as "an internal State Dept report" (well it sure as hell aint an external report!) Now maybe theres more to it than that, but theres no evidence that it is, from the reports Ive seen. |
| Posted by: liberalhawk 2003-04-16 08:37:23 |
| #13 Maybe your jihadi friends can't hit the broadside of a barn from 10 paces. Nothing like the finest training certified by Al Qaeda... |
| Posted by: CrazyCanuck 2003-04-16 08:22:28 |
| #12 Because our guys have body armor, helmets, and armored vehicles for cover--not soft cover like women and children. Plus, our guys are all very familiar with the shooting range and depend on their skills instead of Allah. |
| Posted by: Dar 2003-04-16 08:20:27 |
| #11 "Fire was directed at the marines and special operations forces in this complex. It was aim fire and aim fire was returned against some of the demonstrators" So, there was aim fire, thus marines fire on demonstrators. I am dumb you guys are smart, how comes that no GI is wounded by "lethal" aim fire while there are a dozen of deaths and hundreds of wounded in the crowds? |
| Posted by: Murat 2003-04-16 08:15:48 |
| #10 Hey Moor-Rat, I know it's hard to wrap that brain of yours around, but ACCUSATIONS are not the same as FACT. I know, I know, does not compute in a country that jails a 15 year old boy for saying the word "Kurds". Another item you may wish to pontificate upon...is the strange concept of cause and effect as in: when US marines are fired upon in a war zone they WILL fire back. I know that's not as sporting as picking off Kurdish or Armenian civilians, but that's the way we do things. Sorry about that. I guess you're so busy criticizing the US government because if you criticize your own you'll be beaten or tortured or jailed or something. We welcome your criticism in OUR LANGUAGE, typed on a computer OF OUR MAKING, using a technology OF OUR DESIGN. Better that you spew your hatred here than have you on a Baghdad bound bus on a mission to save your porn-star idol "Omar Studdif". Meanwhile, maybe you can answer the following: Cyprus, Armenia, Kurds... |
| Posted by: mjh 2003-04-16 08:04:39 |
| #9 Well, Murat, I have to concede one to you. I insinuated that you made this story up or heard it on Al Jazeera, but, evidently, it was reported by Reuters. Based on your previous posts, however, I have to think you are eager to see such stories and more eager still to gloat over them. And I wouldn't be surprised if you forwarded to this site allegations that were sketchy at best. That said, you raise an interesting question about why this wasn't reported immediately after it happened. My guess is you suspect a U.S. military/government cover up. That could be true, though it would be stupid, because incidents like this will be discovered. Is it your belief that the Marines indiscriminately started shooting into the crowd with little or no provocation and that Reuters is a stooge of the U.S. government. If so, I refer you back to the article I mentioned. I'm willing to believe someone got jumpy, or there was some kind of miscommunication. But if you're hinting at genocide or something like it, I don't buy it. I think it's more likely someone shot at the Marines. Do I think the Marines can do no wrong? No. But I will never believe they just decided on a whim to pop off a bunch of innocent civilians. |
| Posted by: joe 2003-04-16 08:04:25 |
| #8 If Rooters can't even put an anti-American spin on the story, then there obviously isn't one to be found. |
| Posted by: John Phares 2003-04-16 08:02:37 |
| #7 "Fire was directed at the marines and special operations forces in this complex. It was aim fire and aim fire was returned against some of the demonstrators, against some of the agitators climbing the wall of the compound. It was lethal fire" - Maybe some of your foreign-fighter friends Murat? |
| Posted by: CrazyCanuck 2003-04-16 07:48:37 |
| #6 You're right about feeding the trolls, Paul, but occasionally we can get an actual debate going with Murat. It's good to have some dialog representing opposing views instead of dwelling in our own world where we can continually congratulate each other on being right. On the other hand, there are bona fide trolls like "Anonymo" from yesterday that should most definitely be ignored. Thank God it hasn't become too extreme yet, or Fred may need to implement some registration process or (*shudder*) shut down the blog all together! |
| Posted by: Dar 2003-04-16 11:03:33 |
| #5 Nando Times (requires free registration) has a story on this incident that indicates there is considerable confusion about what happened in Mosul both yesterday and today. I'm beginning to wonder if we're seeing Iraqis using US uniforms in Mosul to see how much trouble they can stir up. The key in the Nando Times article is "an Iraqi ambulance with loudspeakers" arriving. Then this, later: "Tensions have been high in Mosul, a city of 700,000 people where Arabs and Kurds are highly suspicious of each other. Many of the area's Arabs also have a strong affinity for nearby Syria, which has drawn intense criticism in recent days from Washington." The action seems to center around the local Governor General's offices - I.E., where the local Ba'ath party aparatus operated. Apparently, the local Iraqi citizenry (probably Shia) and the Kurds are both wondering what kinds of files might be hiding somewhere. |
| Posted by: Old Patriot 2003-04-16 11:00:19 |
| #4 Do not feed the trolls. Do not reason with trolls. Do not waste Fred's server's memory with trolldom. It is as productive as dialoging with Kimmie. That is all. Out. |
| Posted by: Alaska Paul 2003-04-16 10:55:15 |
| #3 Murat: This is not being hidden by US media. It was reported on the radio on my way to work. You really have no idea how open a society this is, do you? |
| Posted by: 11A5S 2003-04-16 10:22:26 |
| #2 It's amazing how this Murat guy seems to be fixated on this one incident, almost to the point of obsession. Apparently, this one incident now outweighs everything else that has been done. Maybe Murat should go work for the media; he thinks just like they do. |
| Posted by: Bomb-a-rama 2003-04-16 10:17:54 |
| #1 Frank you seem to like that Armenian hoax genocide, question how many Armenians died then? hundred, thousand, million, zillion? |
| Posted by: Murat 2003-04-16 10:17:24 |