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| Gen. Giap: Kerry’s Group Helped Hanoi Defeat U.S. | |
| 2004-02-12 | |
The North Vietnamese general in charge of the military campaign that finally drove the U.S. out of South Vietnam in 1975 credited a group led by Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry with helping him achieve victory. In his 1985 memoir about the war, Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap wrote that if it weren’t for organizations like Kerry’s Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S. - according to Fox News Channel war historian Oliver North. That’s why, he predicted on Tuesday, the Vietnam War issue "is going to blow up in Kerry’s face."
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| Posted by:tipper |
| #36 Some call it naivete to support that war but I never felt that and still don't. Amen, Dataman. It is actually naive to support the ruthless overlords of the media/academic establishment in their demonizing mythology of the war, a mythology that represents North Vietnamese invaders as a popular uprising against imperialism, village terrorists as freedom fighters, and American media traitors as the voice of conscience. The world turned upside down during the Vietnam War and it is still not right. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2004-2-12 9:04:42 PM |
| #35 When I came home from Nam everyone I knew had something to say about my Nam experience. From good job to how could you do it (you sort of get the point)It would have been very easy for me to say ya you guys are right, I plead guilty to fighting an evil war. I didn't. I never expressed my true feelings about why I went there. I still think to this day that I did the right thing and those that protested my presence there were wrong. Some call it naivete to support that war but I never felt that and still don't. The men who served there had different view points on this conflict. Some thought dishonoring their uniform and service to their country was the right thing to do. To those who think that fine. I wouldn't even try to understand why but I do know they lost something along the way and that was love of country. I believe Mr Kerry lost something. I am sorry for him. But having said that I will never vote for him. I think you at least need to love your country and show some honor to be president as a qualification for that office. Based on those simple assumptions Mr Kerry is unqualified to be my next president. |
| Posted by: dataman1 2004-2-12 8:52:47 PM |
| #34 Alaska Paul, others Giap's book, How We Won the War, is very widely available since it is a standard college text for lefty indoctrination courses on the Vietnam War. Interestingly, Giap cites Walter Cronkite's report "Tet '68" as a crucial turning point in the war. At that time, Giap and his fellow NVA generals considered the Tet offensive to have been a bloody failure: morale was at a low ebb; their allies, the NLF (Viet Cong), had been destroyed as a fighting force; and the NV leadership was preparing to negotiate what amounted to a surrender agreement with the US. They were astonished at Cronkite's claim that VC troops has overrun the US embassy in Saigon (they got in but were quickly killed and never had control of the Embassy) along with other claims and comments that Giap regarded as extremely favorable to the Communist effort. He and others took this as a sign of large-scale sympathy for his side among powerful forces in the US, an inspiration, at a time when his forces were all but broken. They re-doubled their efforts, with operations geared toward exploiting public opinion and media sympathy in the US, and the rest is history. This passage, and similar ones in other pro-Communist works, have been a major factor in my ongoing campaign against the "Hollywood/Madison Avenue Cultural Axis." To understand not just how, but why, large segments of this most capitalistic of all industries push the socialist totalitarian agenda, read Thomas Franks' landmark cultural history, The Conquest of Cool. This is the most important book of the last 10 years, imho. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2004-2-12 8:48:40 PM |
| #33 I just got off my Force Recon web, and I have yet to see a favorable review of JK. Could Drudge's news have combined with a manic swing and a lack of lithium to send NMM into a frenzy? |
| Posted by: Sgt.D.T. 2004-2-12 6:31:22 PM |
| #32 Doc, any significance to the 8404? Just wondering - that's the Air Force Officer Specialty Code for an Intelligence Officer... |
| Posted by: Old Patriot 2004-2-12 5:28:28 PM |
| #31 From a different viewpoint of the whole thing, I'd like to add that its a refreshing change to hear the Dems saying positive things about Vietnam Veterans. A few decades late, but better late then never. |
| Posted by: ruprecht 2004-2-12 5:08:02 PM |
| #30 Count me in with OP. I have yet to talk to a vet, especially a Navy vet, that likes JK. If us vets were behind Kerry, GK, look for a accidental discharge where a Lt. gets hit. . . Not that I'm suggesting that of course. God help me if I ever run into Jane. |
| Posted by: Doc8404 2004-2-12 5:06:46 PM |
| #29 But,but,but OP,the main stream media says that all Nam vets are behind brother Kerry. Now I'm learning this is NOT true. I am absolutely shocked. CNN, ABC,etc lied? |
| Posted by: GK 2004-2-12 2:25:16 PM |
| #28 If this be so, then Kerry's credibility goes down the porcelain throne. Oh, wait, it was there already. |
| Posted by: Korora 2004-2-12 1:48:21 PM |
| #27 Repeating #8's statement: could someone please verify that Giap actually said this I know that this is a very emotional issue, but anyone out there have a translated version of Giaps book, so that we can put this issue to bed? |
| Posted by: Alaska Paul 2004-2-12 1:38:25 PM |
| #26 This active duty serviceman won't be voting for Kerry either. I usually vote for the man vice the party & even w/Kerry's 'Nam antics aside, anyone whose voting record mirrors Ted Kennedy's is not worth voting for imo. |
| Posted by: Jarhead 2004-2-12 1:23:01 PM |
| #25 just hope all of you liars get the tumor like he did NMM, you are one sick, vile, reprehensible son of a bitch... |
| Posted by: Raj 2004-2-12 12:16:29 PM |
| #24 THIS Vietnam (combat) veteran won't vote for Kerry, that's for sure. Neither will dozens of my friends, who are also not only Vietnam vets, but also long-term military, who understand that military service is to support and defend the Constitution, not the people currently "leading" this nation - or who were leading it before. Unlike Kerry, I know exactly why we were fighting in Vietnam - to allow another people the same right we cherish so deeply ourselves - the right to determine the type of government we will live under. The fact that the Democratic congress of 1975 was so afraid of losing the "support" of their constituents is what lost the Vietnam war, never any military action by either the North Vietnamese or the Viet Cong. NMM's inane rants and ad-hominem attacks on North only underscore how far the Democrats have strayed from any passing consideration for our Constitution or the principles of our founding fathers. |
| Posted by: Old Patriot 2004-2-12 11:58:26 AM |
| #23 Kerry lied Soldiers died |
| Posted by: Anonymous 2004-2-12 10:05:20 AM |
| #22 When I saw Kerry in a photo with Hanoi Jane on the news last night, that settled any questions I had. |
| Posted by: Highlander 2004-2-12 9:48:32 AM |
| #21 #8 Try this |
| Posted by: tipper 2004-2-12 9:11:13 AM |
| #20 Folks,Folks, it's not NMM's fault(never is with libs). His custodian forgot his anti-spew meds again. |
| Posted by: GK 2004-2-12 9:07:11 AM |
| #19 I'll recant what I have said that I will not vote for Kerry because of his aid and copmfort to the enemy. I had to laugh on Fox the other Tuesday night, a statement was made that most of the Vietname Vets support Kerry. Really? What a laugh. |
| Posted by: dataman1 2004-2-12 7:47:43 AM |
| #18 NMM is unhappy because EnduroTroll is setting new troll standards. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2004-2-12 7:40:58 AM |
| #17 I don't think Kerry can win. I hope he gets the nomination. |
| Posted by: B 2004-2-12 7:39:19 AM |
| #16 Saw a picture on t.v. in the gym this morning. It was of Kerry sitting behind Hanoi Jane at a protest rally either late '60s or early 70. If I was in the Bush campaign, I would be using that one in an ad over & over again. |
| Posted by: Jarhead 2004-2-12 7:31:11 AM |
| #15 "15 year old hooker"uncalled for,but I'm not suprised you would spout such crap. Why don't you coment on what giap said? I have a hard time remebering any argument from you based on facts.All I ever hear from you is runny crap.You do know (I hope)the Imodian and Pepto-Bismal are taken orally? Read a couple of novels by North,not bad. |
| Posted by: Raptor 2004-2-12 6:41:52 AM |
| #14 umm.. Guys? You reading what you are spouting off at? Giap said Kerry helped, North is simply relaying what Giap wrote. What North is or is not, especially in NMM fevered imagination (and his talk about 15 yr old Thai hookers makes me worried) is irrelevant. You have to take out Giap, show he is a liar. Not North. |
| Posted by: Ben 2004-2-12 4:41:35 AM |
| #13 NMN: the other posters here are correct on this. North isn't the issue, whatever his history. The issue is the Giap comments. If they are true, they WILL come out, if not by North then by many others. What I believe the book does say, based on some quick research of reviews, is that Giap credits war protestors for destroying the US will to fight at the exact moment when his army's morale was at it's lowest point: 1968. As the protests built, enemy morale only increased. Kerry was piling on by 1971, but he was certainly part of the "movement" that changed what could have been victory, into defeat. Keep in mind that Kerry has CHOSEN to wave the "bloody shirt" and never fails to mention his Vietnam service...but that isn't all there is to his record. He IS going to take heat, and possibly a lot of it, for what he did in 1971. He isn't running in Massachusetts this time and a lot of people are going to consider his actions FAR more seriously than any of the Bush "AWOL" (lie) stuff. This won't go away for Kerry. |
| Posted by: RMcLeod 2004-2-12 3:06:37 AM |
| #12 ROFLMAO, NMM. A. You are not the appointed spokesman for decent society nor are you a recognized authority for designating what, if anything, constitutes such society. Ad populem, presumptive authority. B. As I said, North's credibility does not matter, either Giap said this or he didn't (and he did). North didn't write Giap's book. Ad hominem, red herring, strawman. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2004-2-12 2:54:10 AM |
| #11 Of course the Lee Atwater school of GOP politics will use this big lie against Kerry--just hope all of you liars get the tumor like he did |
| Posted by: NotMike Moore 2004-2-12 2:43:00 AM |
| #10 Atomic--if someone is a congenital LIAR like Ollie North who all decent society has denied then anything he says is NOT credible |
| Posted by: NotMike Moore 2004-2-12 2:41:31 AM |
| #9 Atomic--if someone is a congenital LIAR like Ollie North who all decent society has denied then anything he says is NOT credible |
| Posted by: NotMike Moore 2004-2-12 2:41:29 AM |
| #8 could someone please verify that Giap actually said this. This way at least we will have definitive position. |
| Posted by: Igs 2004-2-12 2:36:33 AM |
| #7 Excuse me, NMM, North's actions during Iran-Contra (12 years after Vietnam, btw) have nothing to do with the content of Giap's book. It really does say what North claims and, in fact, places great emphasis on it. North's credibility is not an issue, though you as a leftist would naturally tend to resolve all issues according to credibilty and similarly fallacious appeals to authority. Facts and logic are inconvenient, especially to the dupes, pop-culture conformists, and academic fifth columnists who loudly take credit for our defeat in Vietnam for years on end, then deny responsibility for it when they are backed into a corner. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2004-2-12 2:23:48 AM |
| #6 Blah Blah .com rolls off of his 15 year old Thai hooker and posts---fact is Ollie North is a criminal and a liar |
| Posted by: NotMike Moore 2004-2-12 2:20:08 AM |
| #5 Yawn. NMM farts in his own face, again. Either Giap said it in his book, or he didn't. That should be obvious enough and verifiable - assuming you can focus for 30 or 40 seconds... But you just can't help but spew the irrelevant crap, I guess. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-2-12 2:16:54 AM |
| #4 Oh, yes, and where have I heard this stuff before? Of course, IRAN. From the revolutionaries much older and wiser now. If Carter had done.....we wouldn't have.... Hmmm, the same M.O. |
| Posted by: Anonymous2U 2004-2-12 2:11:19 AM |
| #3 Ahhh, shooting the messenger. Are you saying there's not a book? Or that the statement wasn't in it? |
| Posted by: Anonymous2U 2004-2-12 2:09:51 AM |
| #2 Yup, yup quote Oliver North who was in the basement shredding the Constitution, lying to Congress and using taxpayer dollars to pay for his security system--as if that SCUMBAG can be a credible source---LOL |
| Posted by: NotMike Moore 2004-2-12 2:01:07 AM |
| #1 Yes he does have blood on his hands but so do many others, much worse some. Look, VN was badly done and we as a country have gotten beyond that. Had we gone in to win... who knows, but thanks to the grunts from that time. That said I think Kerry is a fake and this country is bigger than a fake like him. |
| Posted by: Lucky 2004-2-12 1:46:16 AM |