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| Quaker Deserts 82nd, Flees to Canada | |||
| 2004-02-19 | |||
| He thought the Army was a socialist utopia. As Bugs Bunny says "What a maroon!" Can you say "Private Slovik"? I thought you could. Jeremy Hinzman said he could barely stomach chanting "kill we will" during basic training and, as a Quaker, he didn’t want to shoot anybody. But it was the thought of serving U.S. interests in Iraq that made the 82nd Airborne Division specialist flee to Canada last month. "I would have felt no different than a private in the German Army during World War II," he said by phone from Toronto, where he is seeking refugee status.
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| Posted by:Chuck Simmins |
| #32 I'm glad he didn't deploy. We already had one idiot rolling grenades into the tents of his conrades. When the full story comes out, I bet we find that he was in a clerking job where he was unlikely to fire a weapon in anger regardless. Sounds like he took what he learned in Montessori school too seriously. I don't think its very hard to drop out in boot camp if the job doesn't suit you. The summer after he graduated from USNA, my older brother was temporarily Tango Company Officer (T Company is the holding company for midshipmen that are being processed out) for the Plebe Class during their summer training. He had quite a few 'clients' that made suicidal gestures or went on the lamb. Never understood why somebody would slash their wrists in the incorrect direction to wash out of USNA when all you had to do leave was raise your hand and tell your Squad Leader that you wanted to quit. |
| Posted by: Super Hose 2004-2-19 6:51:49 PM |
| #31 Talk about people being unclear on the concept. |
| Posted by: Hiryu 2004-2-19 6:12:12 PM |
| #30 My earlier comment (#16) was mostly meant to be snarky than serious. That being said, I'm sure there are many examples of Amish, Quaker, or other pacifistic individuals performing bravely in an indirect combat role. I have a lot of respect for the Amish I've met and will always be impressed by their work ethic. Yet I stop short of being in complete awe of them because if there is not something so dear to you--be it your country, your property, or, especially, your family--that you are not willing to defend to the death, then I think you need your priorities rearranged. Although I'm a bachelor, I couldn't even begin to fathom a father not willing to fight with every means at his disposal to defend his wife and children from harm. |
| Posted by: Dar 2004-2-19 6:04:21 PM |
| #29 During WWI there was man who was an elder of the Church of Christ and Christian Union -- a sect scrupulously opposed to any kind of fighting and firm as conscientious objectors to war. This man was one of the most devout and earnest members of his home church, in Pall Mall, Tennessee. After joining the army, he agonized over his duty to kill enemy soldiers, but he reconciled the objections of his conscience and went to the Argonne sector where he almost single handedly killed 25 Germans, captured 132 prisoners, including several officers and put out of commission 35 machine guns. And that is the tale of Sgt Alvin York, an American hero and erstwhile CO. |
| Posted by: GK 2004-2-19 4:57:15 PM |
| #28 Ship - Old Order Amish (and others) are exempt from service if the legal standard is met. See Welsh vs. US (1970). Most Amish are true pacifists - even to the point of standing by when badguys are doing their thing to them. They also will not press charges - they figure God will get them and get them good. Mennonites can serve if their Bishop allows but Uncle Sam will let them off the hook. As redneck said, Mennonites often serve as Chaplains, corpsmen and aides at Military Hospitals. But this mook -IIRC, isn't this an all-volunteer force?? WTF?? The Society of Terminally Confused, maybe? |
| Posted by: Doc8404 2004-2-19 4:39:53 PM |
| #27 If you read the article, you get this quote, "Had we, say, gone to war with North Korea or someone that was an imminent threat, I would have gone along with it," he said. "I signed up to defend our country, not be a pawn in some sort of political ideology." He's no Quaker and he's no C.O. And useful idiot won't get you out either. Looks like you're a deserter, kid. |
| Posted by: tu3031 2004-2-19 4:33:56 PM |
| #26 On the other hand, its not like this guy was conscripted into the military. He should be hammered with the full force of the UCMJ to make an example for other dipshits like this. A friend's grandfather who was Mennonite (another pacifistic group) did a yeoman's work as a medic at the Battle of the Bulge. He served honorably without conflicting with his conscience. |
| Posted by: whitecollar redneck 2004-2-19 4:09:51 PM |
| #25 I remember it this way Jim K Drill Sergeant "What is the spirit of the bayonet?" 60 voices "TO KILL! TO KILL! TO KILL WITHOUT MERCY!" I knew I was in the right place. |
| Posted by: whitecollar redneck 2004-2-19 4:05:01 PM |
| #24 Check out the story of Desmond Doss, a CO awarded the Medal of Honor during WW2. It is a shame that someone like this dishonors those who serve even if they won't kill. |
| Posted by: Chemist 2004-2-19 4:04:34 PM |
| #23 My dad was in the Army in the Pacific. Back then there were Quakers who served but didn't fight. One of them was the actor Lew Ayers, the original D. Kildare. He was brave, patriotic and a decorated medic. This moron is at best dumb, at worst a traitor. |
| Posted by: Sgt.DT 2004-2-19 4:01:50 PM |
| #22 JFM: Vive l'Maquis! Mojo: I perfer the original Duckworth chant m'self: Sound off! One, two, Sound off! Three, four, Cadence count One, two, three, four One, two, . . . three-four! Pvt. Willie Duckworth, a black soldier on detached service with Fort Slocum's Provisional Training Center, sang out the first-ever rendition of "Sound-off," "Sound-off; 1-2; Sound-off; 3-4; Count cadence; 1-2-3-4; 1-2 -- 3-4." Other soldiers in the formation joined in and their dragging feet picked up momentum. At a time when black soldiers' achievements were just being acknowledged by many in the Army, the "Duckworth Chant," as Duckworth's cadence came to be called, got notice. |
| Posted by: Mike 2004-2-19 4:01:19 PM |
| #21 I not sure of the status of the Old Order Amish... are they COs? I'd damn sure not tresspass on their land. I don't think they are pacifists. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2004-2-19 3:56:24 PM |
| #20 See also Amish. However, we don't see stories of the Amish joining the military then fleeing the country, or coaching people in how to play "conscientious objector". |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-2-19 3:44:26 PM |
| #19 Read about this young and clueless individual last week, passing mention on Tim Blair (I think!)and wrote this. And if I correctly remember the stories from my mother's side of the family ---some of whom were Quakers--- Quakers and other religiously non-violent individuals had no problem with serving in the Army as medics, combat and otherwise. |
| Posted by: Sgt. Mom 2004-2-19 3:24:58 PM |
| #18 "You ain't got no friends on the left..." "you're right!" "You ain't got no friends on the right..." "you left!" "Sound off!" "HOUND DOG!" "Sound off!" "POON-TANG!" "Sound off!" "TREE FROG!" "Count it down!" "HOUND DOG, POON-TANG, TREE FROG...BOONDOCKS!" |
| Posted by: mojo 2004-2-19 3:22:37 PM |
| #17 Frank - I agree. Look at the bright side, he'll spend his whole life trying to justify that decision...even babbling about it on his death bed. His son will always wonder if his dad is really just a pussy, though he'll want to believe he's a good man. Poor guy will never escape the fact that if he really was a man - he would have made his statement in the socialist paradise we call prison (as lil Dimmi pointed out). One quick trip to Canada will cause him to spend his life running. It will consume and ruin his life. His decision voluntarily put him in his own private purgatory. I hope he finds peace. |
| Posted by: B 2004-2-19 3:13:29 PM |
| #16 Quakers--living in peace and harmony by taking full advantage of the protection provided by others. See also Amish. |
| Posted by: Dar 2004-2-19 3:11:57 PM |
| #15 JFM - LMAO |
| Posted by: Matt 2004-2-19 3:01:19 PM |
| #14 Quakers may be nice people, and sincere believers, but when they get on their high horse about nonviolence, I get incensed. The nonviolent Quaker who sanctimoniously refuses to take up arms in defense of justice so he can avoid getting his hands dirty, while all the while piously condemning man's inhumanity to man, well . . . see Luke 18:10-14. My Dad told me about the day back in April of 1945 that he was riding on the rear deck of an M4A3E8 Sherman when his division overran a concentration camp. Let's see a bunch of Quakers try doing that. |
| Posted by: Mike 2004-2-19 3:00:19 PM |
| #13 He fled to Canada? Now he only needs to marry a sophisticated, frigid, power-hungry blonde, have a couple affairs with some vulgar-looking women and the democrats will have their nominee for President. |
| Posted by: JFM 2004-2-19 2:59:24 PM |
| #12 The guy's a Quaker and went into the Army? They should have rejected him for being a moron. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-2-19 2:58:39 PM |
| #11 I say let Canada keep him. Revoke his citizenship |
| Posted by: Frank G 2004-2-19 2:54:07 PM |
| #10 "I had a romantic vision of what the Army was." You mean they dont sit around the campfire and sing kimbaya and sip mai-tai's? I am so disappointed. What a dumbshit. What did he think the army was for? |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2004-2-19 2:53:33 PM |
| #9 On the other hand, he could look at the bright side. Isn't there subsidized food and housing in prison? |
| Posted by: Lil Dhimmi 2004-2-19 2:48:50 PM |
| #8 dumbass! you do not go into the military for subsidized grocies and housing. the military is trained to fight. this guy needs to be strung up! i bet that if kerry wins this guy will recieve a pardon! tree-huggers need not apply |
| Posted by: Dan 2004-2-19 2:42:21 PM |
| #7 I always liked the "Blood makes the grass grow" cadence the best, and also "Bodies, Bodies, Bodies". |
| Posted by: BH 2004-2-19 2:42:13 PM |
| #6 The socialist structure of the military appealed to him, he said. He liked the subsidized housing and groceries and, at the end of his service, the money for college. Minus the money for college, I take it he thought he was joining a commune. |
| Posted by: Lil Dhimmi 2004-2-19 2:40:25 PM |
| #5 Gee, I always liked the part where the Sargent asked you, "What's the purpose of the bayonet?" "To Kill, sergeant, to Kill". |
| Posted by: Jim K 2004-2-19 2:36:39 PM |
| #4 Should have read the contract a little closer before you signed, dumb ass! |
| Posted by: Dar 2004-2-19 2:35:16 PM |
| #3 No parody. From the Fayetteville paper. Just how yellow is this guy? Or is he just plain stupid? What did he expect when he enlisted in THE ARMY? For crying out loud, he had to volunteer a second time to go Airborne. He deployed to Afghanistan in the wake of the murders on September 11, 2001, and he still did not think he was defending the United States? I think some NY City firefighters would like to have a word with this deserter. Time to warm up the gallows at Leavenworth. |
| Posted by: Chuck Simmins 2004-2-19 2:34:47 PM |
| #2 Is this parody? As Professor Reynolds might say, 'Scrappleface writes the script, Hinzman acts it out.' |
| Posted by: Anonymous 2004-2-19 2:33:27 PM |
| #1 the chanting about blood and killing during marches Gee, I always thought that was the most romantic part. |
| Posted by: Steve 2004-2-19 2:29:47 PM |