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| China-Japan-Koreas | |
| Low Turnout Sinks Taiwan Referendum | |
| 2004-03-20 | |
Taiwan's first island-wide referendum, which asked whether the island should beef up defenses against China, failed to pass Saturday for lack of votes, the Central Election Commission said. The referendum focused on rival China's military threat and on possible talks with Beijing. Its failure was a blow to President Chen Shui-bian, who argued that a defeat for the referendum would be a victory for China. The two sides split amid civil war in 1949. Only 45 percent of eligible voters participated in the two ballot issues, the commission said. To be valid, the referendum needed at least 50 percent participation.
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| Posted by:Steve White |
| #11 It was as I said, but they changed it to what I described in 1997, not 2001 that I had mentioned earlier. Thank you. It wasn't so much that a significant portion of Taiwanese are reluctant or afraid of taking an aggressive position as it is a battle of "nuances" between exiles and natives. The Nationalists have no qualms about defending Taiwan, but as a policy they don't want anything that impinges up on the idea of them re-taking China. Hence the opposition to talks with China, declaring independence, etc. As the old-timers die off, that is fading. But it'll be around for at least a couple of decades. |
| Posted by: Pappy 2004-3-20 10:37:20 PM |
| #10 Jen> Why don't you check out the title of this article? If you know how to read, you'll see it says "Low Turnout Sinks Taiwan Referendum". In your own fantasy universe you may have had a different issue under discussion, but I wouldn't know about that. Pappy> It was as I said, but they changed it to what I described in 1997, not 2001 that I had mentioned earlier. |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2004-3-20 4:42:01 PM |
| #9 I believe that the issue that was under discussion was what the turnout reflected about Taiwanese public sentiment and as the poster pointed out, how many referendum voters were likely to vote for Chen or vice versa. Clearly, there is a good portion of the Taiwanese population that is reluctant or afraid for Taiwan to take on an aggressive position vis-a-vis Mainland China. I don't blame them, but... As for you, Katsaris, you're into some kind of electoral weirdness. It seems to go nowhere, but I'm pretty sure that Al Gore could have used you for the recount mess in 2000. |
| Posted by: Jen 2004-3-20 4:33:34 PM |
| #8 Jen> Yes, it's called "providing examples from other countries" as pertains on the issue of the "role of turnout in referendums" that was under discussion. Pappy> Not sure -- I think the turnout bit I mentioned is actually an even more recent amendment than '89. I believe hat originally it was same as in Taiwan (50% of the electorate must take part), and they changed it to the current system in 2001 or something, after the earlier system had resulted in the invalidation of various referendums... Going to check. |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2004-3-20 4:11:16 PM |
| #7 Ugh. That's why I dislike such turnout controls --they count absences as if they were "no-votes", which means that no-voters have no reason whatsoever to participate in such a democratic process -- this undermines democracy itself IMO. Considering that was the first time the Taiwanese had conducted a referendum, I supect there'll be some subtle changes for the next one, now that President Chen survived the election process. Aris, in the case of the Hungarian constitution, did the referendum article come with the '89 amendment, or was it part of the original '49 document? |
| Posted by: Pappy 2004-3-20 3:17:34 PM |
| #6 You're off on a personal riff. In the case of this thread, you're babbling about the merits of the Hungarian constitution on a post about Taiwan. I can't begin to follow your word salad adventures. |
| Posted by: Jen 2004-3-20 3:01:15 PM |
| #5 Not-surnamed-one, what is it you are disagreeing with now? How did my words *now* show me to be a pinko communist gay Muslim with a false name who's posting from Russia or perhaps Afghanistan? Or are you just being assholey for principle's sake? |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2004-3-20 2:44:11 PM |
| #4 Katsaris, do YOU even know what you're talking about, if anything? |
| Posted by: Jen 2004-3-20 2:07:35 PM |
| #3 Such is the case in the Hungarian constitution, btw. |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2004-3-20 1:27:25 PM |
| #2 Ugh. That's why I dislike such turnout controls -- they count absences as if they were "no-votes", which means that no-voters have no reason whatsoever to participate in such a democratic process -- this undermines democracy itself IMO. I very much prefer the turnout controls that say that atleast 50% of the valid votes and atleast 25% of the electorate give the same answer. In such a case 0.45*0.92=41.4% and it would have clearly exceeded a 25% turnout limit. |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2004-3-20 1:26:41 PM |
| #1 Of the 45% that voted 92% voted yes... the other side boycotted the vote in the hopes that they couldn't achieve the 50% of registered voters required... pretty sneaky, but shows that the population of Taiwan definetly wanted this to pass. |
| Posted by: Damn_Proud_American 2004-3-20 12:38:18 PM |