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| Iraq-Jordan | ||
| US marines in Fallujah quick to show they are not a soft touch | ||
| 2004-04-01 | ||
| BEFORE the US marines arrived just over a week ago, many in Fallujah had been led to believe that their new occupiers were planning to use a "softer touch" than the US army forces that preceded them. Unlike the soldiers of the 82nd Airborne Division, the marines had received cultural training before arriving in Iraq. Some had taken intensive Arabic language courses. But on 26 March, two days after they arrived, the marines were caught in an intense firefight with armed militants that set a much different tone. One marine was killed and seven were injured. Five Iraqis, including a freelance ABC News cameraman, were killed. The battle led to a show of force by the marines that many residents say was unlike any in nearly a year of occupation by the United States. At least eight marines have been killed in the area in a two-week period. On Tuesday, the marines deployed tanks and armoured vehicles to block the main exits and entrances to Fallujah for the fourth day. The deployment forced thousands of motorists off the motorway and on to dirt tracks, where traffic moved slowly under the watchful eyes of soldiers [sic]crouching in the sand behind their guns or atop military vehicles. The guns of tanks on the motorway were trained on the al-Askari district. On Monday night, according to residents, the marines patrolled the neighbourhood using an Arabic speaker to warn residents through a bullhorn against harbouring insurgents. The area would become a battlefield unless the "terrorists" left, the voice added. Residents also reported door-to-door house raids by the marines looking for weapons and suspected insurgents on Monday and Tuesday. "If they find more than one adult male in any house, they arrest one of them," claimed a resident, Khaled Jamaili, 26. "Those marines are destroying us. They are leaning very hard on Fallujah."
Senior US military commanders say the insurgents and their supporters in Fallujah are a tiny minority and most city residents are tired of the violence. But support for the insurgency appears to still be strong in sections of the city. Fighters in the working-class area of al-Askari are routinely referred to as mujahideen, or holy fighters. Americans are referred to as "Zionists" or "Jews", words many Arabs use to refer to Israelis. "We are all suffering from what the Americans are doing to us, but that doesn’t take away anything from our pride in the resistance," said Saadi Hamadi, 24, a graduate of Arabic studies from Baghdad’s al-Mustansiriyah University. "To us, the Americans are just like the Israelis," he added.
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| Posted by:tipper |
| #39 The light touch bit is a bunch of crap. The bad guys hiding in Faluja know the Marines reputation and hoped they could be provoked into slaughtering innocence and thus drumming up a lot of support to their cause. They might be suprised at how methodical and efficient the modern Marines can be. I wouldn't be surprised fo find a few food caravans are delayed since the security was attacked on that last one. Let them get a bit hungry and think about what they did. |
| Posted by: ruprecht 2004-04-02 12:11:07 AM |
| #38 Jack Deth (#9), has hit the head on the nail. The U.S. will eventually take note of how the Romans handled situations like this centuries ago, especially at Masada! The Iraqi's are 'driving' us to this inevitable conclusion. We haven't reahed the DEATH PERCENTAGE yet, say...20% of Occupation. |
| Posted by: smn 2004-04-01 10:06:19 PM |
| #37 Dave, Although I intend to vote for Bush at least five times (I live in Louisiana), you may be overestimating the effects of Kerry winning. The guy has only one conviction: that he is entitled to be the President. Beyond that, he can't decide what color tie to wear, and is simply saying whatever will get him elected. I think the left is going to be sorely disappointed with the man. But I don't think it will come to that. Kerry is imploding at a rate I would not have hoped for in my wildest dreams. |
| Posted by: Matt 2004-04-01 8:34:42 PM |
| #36 I'll say what I said yesterday...this was a failure of command, or the Rules of Engagement foistered on the Marines. You can beat your breast all you want about how the Maines will kick ass...but the ass kicking needed to be Yesterday, during the incident. That's the truth of it. If there were 25K Marines around Falluja yesterday...no one has yet even raised the question of why this was allowed to go on for as long as it did? The Marine Commander needs to answer for this...if it was in his RoE to not engage in these circumstances, then fine. If he didn't know that a mob and murder was going on in Zone of Responsibility, at the major intersection of the City, he needs to answer for that also. There may or may not be answers for these Questions...but these are the revelent Questions! No one seems to want to touch this aspect of the Murders yesterday. |
| Posted by: Traveller 2004-04-01 8:33:24 PM |
| #35 Frank Martin's plan is pretty much genius! LOL, too. Clearly, the Marines are "sweating out" Falluja tonight. It must suck to be those barbarians! Bet you could hear a pin drop in town. Did y'all know that 25,000 Marines were there? I read yesterday that both Hamas and Hizbollah had set up shop in Iraq...Did the Fallujans know that Marines have been looking for payback since their barracks were blown up in Beirut in 1983??? We are talking some seriously motivated Lean, Green, Killing Machines!! Semper Fi and LET'S ROLL! |
| Posted by: Jen 2004-04-01 8:08:03 PM |
| #34 Frank Martin's plan is pretty much genius! LOL, too. Clearly, the Marines are "sweating out" Falluja tonight. It must suck to be those barbarians! Bet you could hear a pin drop in town. Did y'all know that 25,000 Marines were there? I read yesterday that both Hamas and Hizbollah had set up shop in Iraq...Did the Fallujans know that Marines have been looking for payback since their barracks were blown up in Beirut in 1983??? We are talking some seriously motivated Lean, Green, Killing Machines!! Semper Fi and LET'S ROLL! |
| Posted by: Anonymous3985 2004-04-01 8:07:35 PM |
| #33 Dave, absolutely right. When we have dealt with the foreign enemies we must turn our attention to the enemy within. This is going to be very difficult, since (imho) very few Americans have any idea who the enemy really are and what drives them. The clearest and most reasonable exposition of this that I have come across is Thomas M. Franks' The Conquest of Cool. This documents the historical and cultural relationships among mass media, the advertising culture, and radical politics. I confess to being a bit of a bore about evangelizing for this book, but it really is one of the most important works of cultural history in recent years. The scales will fall from many eyes upon reading it. It helps Franks' credibility that he is definitely not a right-winger, and does not appear to have any kind of partisan agenda at all. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2004-04-01 7:48:57 PM |
| #32 LD- man, you weren't kidding. That's disgusting. Reading stuff like that makes my skin crawl; my kid is over there risking his life while these pustules trash everything that is good and decent about our country. If Kerry wins this Fall, I'm not sure it would bother me a whole lot to wake up some day early next year and find out there's been a military takeover with the aim of rooting out the socialist rot and restoring proper Constitutional rule. Normally I'd be horrified at the idea of a coup; but to depose a President Kerry and stop the decline, I just don't know. I just don't know... |
| Posted by: Dave D. 2004-04-01 7:24:55 PM |
| #31 mhw - Jimmy Dean is alive and well, living outside Richmond, Virginia, and sueing the Sara Lee Corp. over continuing to use his name on his sausage (which they bought) after dropping him as a spokesman. We take our entertainment where we can get it down here. :-p |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2004-04-01 6:39:03 PM |
| #30 Lil D - Oh man - the DUmmies have no envelope. Words fail me. Thx for posting this, bro. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-04-01 5:42:36 PM |
| #29 This is enough to piss anyone off right here. |
| Posted by: Lil Dhimmi 2004-04-01 5:36:08 PM |
| #28 At the very least, I would hope that there are several teams of marine snipers lurking...and if something like this every happens again the cameras will capture heads exploding like ripe melons from .50 Cal rounds from a mile away. |
| Posted by: mjh 2004-04-01 4:46:36 PM |
| #27 We better get a response within 48Hours com, or the Marines just might riot AKA start shooting any Muslim with a gun. |
| Posted by: Charles 2004-04-01 4:34:17 PM |
| #26 Dan - I beg to differ. They have attempted targeted cleanups based upon intel with specific info. The quote you used was referring to a thread yesterday. It was talking about a total takedown of the city - Savagery in Fallujah was Fred's featured link to the thread. Old Spook posted a wise, clear, clean, hard-ass plan for how to accomplish it. I believe it would work and would make each and every Fallujan experience (at least) a week out in the countryside - that would make the point to the innocents, as well, that at least some responsibility for what is done (and implicitly condoned) in their city must be borne by all - so they would be inclined to help prevent such acts in the future. This would make us both happy, from what you posted. Where the asshats are located, it would make going medievel on their asses very straight-forward. I do not want any soft-stroke PC BS, either. I want the whole fucking city to suffer for what they have fostered, nurtured, ignored, supported, whatEVER. An object lesson is called for here. We'll see if the CA Mil Cmd has what it takes to win this thing or not. The buzz by the ex-mil talking heads on FoxNews sez we will get a "response" within 48 hrs. Here's hoping it's substantive and all-encompassing -- and effective. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-04-01 4:29:18 PM |
| #25 I have my hopes up that the cordon, section, sweep idea will be adopted this exactly what happened in this city last autumn. these guys do not get the message. moral of this story is to not let up on this city. keep the whole damn city on lockdown until each and every person involved is id by the populace. no one leaves no one enters, going soft on this city is a no winner. even if it is only a few fanatics (which i believe it is - this was a calculated act) make everyones life miserable until they cough them up. |
| Posted by: Dan 2004-04-01 4:13:49 PM |
| #24 I'm telling ya' - all they'll do is a midnight raid on a few mud huts and nab a few troublemakers. Its the SOP now - and it will be as affective as a popcorn fart. |
| Posted by: Yosemite Sam 2004-04-01 4:10:06 PM |
| #23 AP 'An Iraqi Governing Council member stressed that those responsible represented just a small minority of Iraqis but also encouraged U.S. troops to think carefully about how to respond. "In 1958, July 14th, some members of the royal family were killed and mutilated. Iraqis were ashamed for decades at this barbaric event," Samir Sumaidi said. "Now after this I feel that again Iraqis will hang their heads in shame." ' Right on schedule. Within the next news cycle, as I said. No word from Sadr or Sistani, that Im aware of. |
| Posted by: Liberalhawk 2004-04-01 4:04:25 PM |
| #22 Frank Martin - Lol! Compiling that list was prolly fun! Some excellent imagination shown! Kudos! I have my hopes up that the cordon, section, sweep idea will be adopted. The time lapse hurts, but in the Arab mind Dire Revenge can be for events centuries ago - so we should not let our Western attitudes get in the way, here. THEY will get it when it comes. So let it come, Sanchez, or get the fuck out of the way and allow someone with stones to do the job. This is the crunch time, when those who understand the hard mathematics should step forward and carry out the mission. Anything less and we have accepted failure against these barbarians. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-04-01 3:03:09 PM |
| #21 Frank Martin - how about 'Tony Orlando'? "Knock three times On the Abrams if you want meeee..." |
| Posted by: Raj 2004-04-01 2:13:15 PM |
| #20 kids, why is the power still on in Fallujah? Dont they issue bolt cutters in the corps? soft touch? - marines? Havent these ignorant mutts ever heard of halls of montezuma, shores of tripoli, Iwo jima, saipan, okinawa, chosin, Hue, khe sahn ? Does the phrase "no greater friend, no worse enemy" have any meaning to these people? It makes you want to drop leaflets to point out the war history of the corps, along with the average marines kill ratio. Heres my take on "how to suppress Saddamist Jihadis': step 1. Power off. step 2. Water off. mark all remaining wells with Globle and Eagle graphics with words " Fresh water brought to you by xxx battalion US MARINES" position Abrams tanks at all wells. Test weaponry on the top of each hour. Flybys of gunships, ac-130 spooky gunships with demonstrations thrice daily. step 3. Partition city with barbwire fences and gun towers. introduce locals to the 50 caliber perimeter defense device.(Ma Deuce - call your office) step 4. establish camps outside of town, just for grins call them 'guantanmos'. step 5. Arrest all males over 15 and under 40. picture, fingerprint and DNA each one. give them a glossy for the folks back home. Explain how we can and will track them from this point forward, or as we like to say, "you can run but you cant hide". Explain how president of the US is from a state that actually enforces the death penalty,so if he'll kill his own people, what chance have you got hadji? for the guys who cooperate, give them a sign around their neck that says "florida" for the tough guys, hang a sign around their neck that says "tel aviv". Point out to the others that we have options on where we send people next, their cooperation will be noted in their files. step 6. evacuate block where atrocity occured. step 7. level the block. in full view of civilians. invite al-jizzera to film. make popcorn. step 8. wash, rinse repeat in wider circumfrence to former city limits. step 9. build mcdonalds or walmart on ruins. step 10. rename fallujah "orlando". step 11. begin asking "say, wheres that fallujah place at anyway...." |
| Posted by: Frank Martin 2004-04-01 1:57:26 PM |
| #19 Re: #17 Good. We have pictures, after all. Clear out the town, make 'em all walk past checkpoints where anyone who was at the car or that bridge gets arrested. The others can leave (DON'T come back!), going wherever they want to. Then level the goddamned city. Erase it, completely and utterly, from the face of the planet... Hence, the Carthage solution. |
| Posted by: mojo 2004-04-01 1:25:52 PM |
| #18 Kimmit, Want to bet? |
| Posted by: Mr. Davis 2004-04-01 1:21:13 PM |
| #17 Coalition forces will respond," Kimmitt told a news conference. "They are coming back and they are going to hunt down the people responsible for this bestial act. "It will be at a time and a place of our choosing. It will be methodical, it will be precise and it will be overwhelming." |
| Posted by: Liberalhawk 2004-04-01 12:59:43 PM |
| #16 Besides ID they should get inplanted or injected RFID's! Let the microchip stay with them for life! |
| Posted by: 3dc 2004-04-01 12:54:56 PM |
| #15 I don't think there will be anything done other than a large patrol rounding up some troublemakers in the middle of the night. If they go in the daylight, a firefight will ensue, 1 Marine will be killed several wounded and 8-12 "civilian" killed. |
| Posted by: Yosemite Sam 2004-04-01 12:45:59 PM |
| #14 mhw -- He's talking about Jimmy Dean brand sausage. If not them, then Bob Evans may be willing. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-04-01 12:38:59 PM |
| #13 Jack Deth -- Jimmy Dean died last year. |
| Posted by: mhw 2004-04-01 12:23:57 PM |
| #12 Carthage solution Yes, Carthage. Let those who are innocent leave. Destroy those who stay. Level the town. Salt the earth where it stood and piss on it for good measure. |
| Posted by: anymouse 2004-04-01 12:22:24 PM |
| #11 I like the mini-MOAB idea. Sweet and clean. Oh and take out that bridge. The people who need work can work on rebuilding it. And it sounds like Saadi Hamadi was one of the people cheering it on. I wonder how long it took the reporter to find someone with a quote like that? |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2004-04-01 12:00:45 PM |
| #10 ...Supposedly the Marine Air-Ground Museum at Quantico used to have a letter on display that I think explains the situation: During the Korean War, a Marine unit relieved a Army unit, and proceeded to dig in. That night, the Chinese came across and were, of course, torn to shreds. A little while after the Chniese pulled back, a flare was launched from their side, revealing two Chinese one officer and one enlisted man carrying a white flag coming across to the Marine lines. The Marine commander went out to meet them, where the Chinese officer handed them a letter, saluted, and walked away. Supposedly, the letter - typewritten in marginal english - said : We humbly apologize for attacking Marine positions, we thought you were the Army. Now, it may not be true (Full Disclosure, BTW - I'm a Marine brat and retired USAF, but respect all the services)but it does sum up the difference in attitudes quite nicely. Mike |
| Posted by: Mike Kozlowski 2004-04-01 11:55:16 AM |
| #9 Blockade, surround and barricade the city. Cut off the electricity and water. Set up a PA system telling the Fallujians to give up those who ambushed, killed and desecrated the Americans within 48 hours. Then close the noose. One block at a time. Anyone leaving is captured. Or killed. Once the city is empty... LEVEL IT! Then see if Jimmy Dean is interested in outsourcing a pig processing plant! |
| Posted by: Jack Deth 2004-04-01 11:52:34 AM |
| #8 How about everyone in Fallujah has to have an identity card with GPS. Anyone without a card or who mutilates a card is arrested (oh the humilation). Camcorders in secret places. Anyone with a weapon is arrested. Anyone who was seen attacking the remotely controlled van is arrested. |
| Posted by: mhw 2004-04-01 11:25:13 AM |
| #7 The Carthage solution is looking better and better. And anybody in Fallujah who thinks having the occupation troops switched from Army to Marines is a GOOD thing is crazier than a shithouse rat. |
| Posted by: mojo 2004-04-01 11:04:31 AM |
| #6 Time to turn the town into a pig farm. Spread pig feces around and on any mujahideen. All your graves are belong pig. |
| Posted by: Lucky 2004-04-01 11:00:27 AM |
| #5 It's reported that there is a calm before the storm in Fallujah today. No rush, but I hope we kick some serious stink'n ass. |
| Posted by: CobraCommander 2004-04-01 10:58:15 AM |
| #4 A suggestion from a commenter at Blackfive: How about a remote controlled SUV with tinted windows, cruising around Fallujah. When it is attacked stop it. When they go to withdraw the "victims" detonate the 1000 lb bomb hidden inside. Mobile Mini MOAB. What a great idea. |
| Posted by: Bomb-a-rama 2004-04-01 10:53:20 AM |
| #3 BEFORE the US marines arrived just over a week ago, many in Fallujah had been led to believe that their new occupiers were planning to use a "softer touch" than the US army forces that preceded them. Do these people ever read the news? |
| Posted by: BH 2004-04-01 10:48:14 AM |
| #2 "To us, the Americans are just like the Israelis," he added Which is to say, able to whip Arab ass at will. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-04-01 10:43:23 AM |
| #1 Army soft and Marine soft are two entirely different things. As these butt-weavils will soon discover. |
| Posted by: Dragon Fly 2004-04-01 10:43:21 AM |