From Al-Muhajiroun, an interview with Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad
I studied Islam from the age of 5 in the Al-Kutaab Islamic Boarding School. In the following 10 years I came across many Islamic teachers, ranging from Sufis, Usuliâs, Ahl-ul-Hadith and Muslim Brotherhood (MB). But my relationship with the Muslim Brotherhood really took off from the age of 15 ... around 1972-3. I pursued my Islamic studies alongside my association with the Muslim Brotherhood until the age of 17, and then I joined Hizb-ut-Tahrir (HT). ....
I joined MB in Syria, whereas I joined Hizb ut-Tahrir in Lebanon. ... At that time the MB was an underground movement. .... I was a seeker of Islamic knowledge in that sense, but was never involved in any type of military struggle. You should also note, that the main driving force behind the Syrian Jihad was al-Talaaiâ Al-Islamiyah, a group that was in alliance with the MB, but in later years distanced itself from the Brotherhood. ... Al-Talaaiâ promoted a Jihadi method, whereas the Muslim Brotherhood was largely inactive and underground. ... I was proud of my affiliation to the old Muslim Brotherhood, but the Muslim Brotherhood today really disgusts me. They are becoming co-opted into the political systems of the countries in which they operate. In Egypt, the Brotherhood even wants to change its name to receive greater recognition. .... The Jihadists in Syria have now become proper Salafis and are basically linked to al-Qaeda. ...
I left [Syria] in 1977. .... I was wanted in Syria as a member of the MB. I left [Lebanon] in 1979. I made my way to Egypt and went to Al-Azhar to complete my Islamic education in Cairo. .... I spent 6 months studying in Al-Azhar, but I was not able to complete my studies since conflicts arose between the tutors and me.
| My guess is that he thought he knew more than they did... |
Therefore I went to Saudi Arabia in December 1979. I re-started my education in Mecca in an establishment called The Islamic School of al-Saltiyah. .... Al-Muhajiroun ... was established in Mecca, but we launched it in Jeddah. .... On March 3, 1983 â the 59th anniversary of the destruction of the Ottoman Caliphate â I launched a separate organization with the help of these 38 brothers and called it Al-Muhajiroun. .... I came here to Britain on January 14, 1986.
Q: Were you expelled from Saudi Arabia?
A: Yes. ... We started a stickers and leaflets campaign in the major cities, attacking all Kufr systems (i.e. man-made regimes), including the al-Saud Regime. ... The regime was not able to trace the massive sticker campaign to Al-Muhajiroun as we worked furtively and were skilled in these activities. We built up dedicated cells. Our people studied Islam during the day and engaged in distributions and other activities during the night.
| Why waste any time working for a living? |
... I always believed the Saudi regime was Kufr. ... I was first arrested in Jedda in 1984 and we were subsequently released on bail. They found nothing on us apart from some glue and leaflets, which were going to be distributed around Mecca. They were not able to link us to any recognizable organization like HT. We simply presented ourselves as Muhajiroun (emigrants) who had left their countries in the hope of securing sanctuary in Saudi Arabia. The next time they arrested me was in December in 1985 in Riyadh. They raided one of our houses at a time when I was teaching from the subversive book, The Money Circulation under the Khilafa System .... We spent seven days in hell in the Al-Malaz detention center. There were tough interrogations and some beatings. .... They tried to elicit information through beatings and torture. ... The reason I came to Britain was because I had a multiple-visa. I had visited Britain briefly in 1984 for few weeks. I never planned to stay in Britain. I had wanted to go to Pakistan or Malaysia. I was wanted in Syria, and the Syrian security services in Lebanon had raided my house and killed one of my brothers. ... My activities in the UK (from 1987-1996) awakened all the sleeping cells of HT around the world. .... Muhajiroun and HT disagreed on three points. 1- Muhajiroun engage in the divine method to establish the Khilafah wherever they have members, whereas HT works to establish the Khilafah only in a specific Muslim country (they called it Majalâi.e. geographical area in any part of the Muslim world) and restricted their membersâ activities outside the Majal.
2- Muhajiroun follow the Aqeedah of Ahlus-Sunnah ... whereas HT subscribe to a different Aqeedah. [elaborated in interview]
3- Muhajiroun believe in twinning Daâwa (the call to Islam) and Jihad, whereas HT does not believe that Jihad can be waged by agents not affiliated to the Islamic state. .... The real dispute was over the methodology to establish the Khilafah, they did not like me attacking man-made laws here in the UK, and they did not like the fact that I was condemning the policy of John Major and the British government. ... I never recruited people to go abroad and fight against anyone. However, people used to come to us if they wanted to join Jihads abroad but soon discovered that we are merely Jihad sympathisers.
| ... though good for a bus ticket to Chechnya or someplace. |
Anyway, legally speaking, all our activities were permissible during that period. We did not breach any laws as we were helping suffering people overseas. .... I used to encourage people to go to Bosnia to help their Muslim brothers and sisters, when the law in the UK permitted that type of intervention. But when the law forbade it, we stopped these activities altogether. ...
Certain people ... tried to portray us [as] the political wing of Bin Ladenâs military structure and this used to make me laugh. I wish we had a connection, as there is no shame in being linked to Sheikh Osama Bin Laden. .... I have never met Sheikh Osama Bin Laden in my life. .... In 1996, a letter from Bin Laden was published in The Independent and the Quds al-Arabi, and we simply made a copy of it and said we were going to read it in public. The media simply sensationalized this. In the same vein there was to be no tape from Sheikh Omar Abd al-Rahman. ... I will let you [in] on an open secret. I never published any leaflet in the UK without sending a fax to all media organizations, including the Police press officer. This foiled the machinations of anyone who might have been tempted to distort what I was saying.
| Ahah! Machinations! Deep-laid plots against the Faithful! I suspected as much... |
I was advised to do this by my students who are solicitors by default as the Muhajiroun legal team. The Society of Muslim Lawyers are my students. I teach them Islamic law, and they help me to make sense of English law. These lawyers advised me to adopt this method, as it would stop my detractors right in their tracks. The media always present some quotes out of context, but now there would no longer be any scope to link me with distorted and sensational statements. I was advised a long time ago by my legal team that owing to the jury-based system of libel adjudication in this country, I would not stand a chance of winning as I have to present my case in a public arena, and of course I have been consistently demonized in this public arena. .... I study English law. Therefore I can tell you when I am right on the edge of the law. I believe Islam is superior.
| "Under a proper caliphate they would have cut my head off years ago..." |
The law here does not protect the average person â it only protects the one who understands it. This is very unfair from an Islamic perspective as the law is designed to be an intrinsic part of social welfare. ...
| ... and all countries that are based on Shariah are notably law-abiding and peaceful... |
The fact that Americans [on 9/11] were attacked was no surprise, what was surprising is that they came under such a devastating attack in their own country. The attacks were really a magnificent operation in every way. They were magnificent terrorists. What they did was an act of terrorism no different from what the US forces have been doing in Iraq, Sudan and Afghanistan both before and after 9/11. ... The Prophet Muhammad once said to the enemy: I have come to terrorize you; he said: âO, people of Qureish I have come to slaughter youâ; in another quote he said: âI am the Prophet who kills while laughingâ. .... For me âterrorismâ is not necessarily a bad word; it depends on the context and whether it is based on the commands of Allah.
| It's been rooted in the religion for 1400 years. It's not going to stop any time soon. Probably it's not going to stop while the religion exists... |
I believe this phenomenon of al-Qaeda is not going to stop. The phenomenon of martyrdom operations is contagious as the Prophet Muhammad correctly said. Al-Qaeda for me, are people who revived the memory and traditions of the Messenger Muhammad (saw) and his companions, and follow the path of the late Salaf ... . But of course we do not encourage Muslims in Britain or in any other Western country to copy al-Qaeda as we are all bound by the âCovenant of Securitiesâ.
I came to this country with a visa and hence cannot fight anybody. In return I reserve the right to speak my mind and be left alone to pursue my peaceful activities. .... Al-Qaeda is not interested in small attacks. Of course al-Qaeda freelance supporters carry out such attacks in places like Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, but the real al-Qaeda is not interested in these minor attacks, they go for massive operations. When they want to strike they will strike. Also bear in mind that the Americans are not holding any al-Qaeda people in Guantanamo Bay. ... The CIA knows exactly what they are up against; they are up against the most determined Salafi-Wahhabis who have come together in al-Qaeda. That is why the Americans are trying to stop the dissemination of works by Sheikh ibn Abdul Wahab. .... Nobody wants to establish an Islamic state here in the UK, but we will continue to work for Islam. I believe Britain is harbouring most of the Islamic opposition leaders of the Muslim world, because the British elites are very clever, they are not stupid like the Americans. Remember these people used to rule half of the world. I believe the British recognize that the Khilafah will rise again one day, and they are anxious to influence this process. The British are not like the French and the Germans, they donât slap you in the face, they stab you in the back. They want to buy some of these Islamic groups.
I believe all the people referred to as âmoderateâ Muslims have at one time or another struck deals with the British government. ... the Muslim Brotherhood in the UK, UK Islamic Mission, Gammaa Islamiyah, Iranian opposition groups, the so-called Ahlul Bait groups. .... All the Shia groups enjoy excellent relations with the British government ....
Q: Have you ever had any reason to suspect that your organization has been penetrated?
A: I believe they have tried to do this, as the British are desperate to buy intelligence.
Q: Do you have security procedures in place to prevent this?
A: Yes. I teach intensive theology to all new recruits. If they find it boring they will run away after six months.
Q: But competent spies can be very persevering.
A: Okay, if they persevere then they will become Muslims.
Q: I see. Would you then consider using this new convert as a double agent?
A: No. Why would I want to penetrate them? It is forbidden in Islam to have contacts with non-Islamic authority. Anyway, I believe their intelligence is not efficient, as they have arrested people on several occasions and subsequently let them go. I have heard some of them were important figures. ...
Q: Okay, Sheikh Omar Bakri, let us bring this to a close. Where is all this heading, is it a fight to the finish between the United States and the Salafis?
A: Allah knows best, however, our main concern is to please Allah, and to die in the cause of Allah and go to Jannah (Paradise). If the U.S. continues with her policy against Islam and the Muslim world, Muslims will be more inclined to strike blows against America. |