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| Iraq-Jordan | |
| Najaf fighting pauses for negotiations, Powell gets it | |
| 2004-08-14 | |
| American troops and Moqtada al-Sadr's rebel militiamen paused Friday after eight days of fighting to allow negotiations on a truce that would end the siege of a rebel bastion in the Imam Ali Mosque in Najaf, one of the greatest pilgrimage sites in Islam. Gunfire fell silent across most of the city as Iraqi government representatives met into the night at the provincial governor's headquarters with emissaries of Mr. Sadr, the populist Shiite cleric. His The talks in Najaf appeared to have ended, at least for now, the risks of a climactic battle in the Old City here, and the threat that would have posed to the 1,000-year-old mosque, burial place of Imam Ali, revered as the founder of Shiite Islam. But the terms set by the two sides appeared far apart, at least publicly, and it was far from certain that a solution to nearly five months of sporadically deadly confrontation would be found. Even as the talks opened, the cleric, a rotund, bushy-bearded figure in his early 30's with a shrewd instinct for
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| Posted by:Dan Darling |
| #23 Guys - they needed a coupel days operational pause to set up the cordons, briung up supplies and rest the line troops. Thats why. And they gave the guy a last chance to walk, and they stopped fighting over the Holy Day (for added political bonus). Look for more detail in the other thread. |
| Posted by: Oldspook 2004-08-14 9:14:27 PM |
| #22 Dammit I mean a sensitive nurturing sort of coflict, a warm war not too hot and not too cold but just right. |
| Posted by: Kofi Kofi Anon 2004-08-14 8:30:53 PM |
| #21 You people don't understand the nuances involved in fighting a sensitive, wholesome and nutrituious war. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2004-08-14 8:28:07 PM |
| #20 I thought we had learned to not negotiate with terrorists. |
| Posted by: Tom 2004-08-14 1:58:57 PM |
| #19 Iraqi forces will be the ones to enter and clear the shrine. Hopefully some will infiltrate and cap the triggermen up close and personal and prevent detonation. They will finally use that Iraqi "Special Forces" battalion hey have been training for months over there. See my comments on how the "failed negotiations" thread - and how they look to me to be a setup. |
| Posted by: Oldspook 2004-08-14 11:02:22 AM |
| #18 frank..lol! Yep..that's it. |
| Posted by: B 2004-08-14 10:05:46 AM |
| #17 I'm thinking more of "Blazing Saddles" when Cleavon Little held his gun to his own head and said "don't move, or the n****** gets it!" |
| Posted by: Frank G 2004-08-14 9:29:55 AM |
| #16 ok..ok..it was just a poor example...but you can get my point. :-( |
| Posted by: B 2004-08-14 9:28:08 AM |
| #15 oops..i guess Louis F was a poor example...substitute Jessie J. |
| Posted by: B 2004-08-14 9:26:16 AM |
| #14 The truth is that we checkmated him. Heâs only got us in check for the moment by threatening to kick over the board if we move our hand to complete the game. Tater canât just blow the mosque â A) cause he doesnât want to die, and B) because heâs a true-believer and Iâm guessing he doesnât want to blow up the burial site of the founder of Shite and C) Shiteâs will be as ticked as if Louis Farrakahan(sp?) blew up a historic church with a favored Saint in it. Donât get me wrong, Iâm not saying that he wonât blow the mosque. Iâm just saying itâs unlikely that Tater wants to do it. And if he does, Waco is a good example of the press frenzy and subsequent outrage that will follow. But if it does happen, the upside is that weâll be rid of Sadr and his most hardcore followers and the Iranians will need to find a new âpopularâ leader to rally the masses. |
| Posted by: B 2004-08-14 9:24:04 AM |
| #13 Hmmmm in that heat, with no water, what's the expiration date for tater tots? |
| Posted by: Frank G 2004-08-14 9:21:15 AM |
| #12 News Flash: The Marines were right to set up a double cordon. Sadr supporters are flooding into Najaf hoping to relieve Sadr in the mosque with supplies. This time, unlike Fallujah, it's not going to happen. The double cordon, or "contravallation", was first invented by Julius Ceaser, to stop such "break-ins" to relieve a siege. By the Middle Ages it came to mean a deep trench with a guard tower surrounding the siege, performing the same function but needing fewer men. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2004-08-14 9:21:04 AM |
| #11 Tear gas the shrine and if they don't run out with their hand up, then shoot them down like the morons they are. |
| Posted by: ed 2004-08-14 9:18:37 AM |
| #10 On the very plus side, the good guys here are not idiots. Let us examine the situation. Most of Tater's people have been, I suspect, intentionally driven into the shrine. There is now a double cordon of Marines sieging it--no one out, and especially, no one in. Undoubtedly they have cut off the electricity, sewer and water. The high temperature today is 110F. With 1000 to 2000 men in that building, it is *not* going to be a pleasant place to hang out for any length of time. You'll note that one of Tater's top five demands is to "restore essential services to Najaf." Once again, I will predict that after a time, pistol shots will be heard inside the mosque. Then a large contingent will frog walk out the door with their hands on their heads. Last but not least there will be a scramble by the few remaining hard corps, who will waltz into a free fire zone from Hell. The plan is not just for them to lose, but for them to be utterly humiliated and to lose face so much that they become an embarrassment to their own families. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2004-08-14 9:10:26 AM |
| #9 These fundamentalists need to be given no mercy. What good would would it serve if the bastard recovers. More chaos , more innocent deaths |
| Posted by: Niceguy 2004-08-14 8:07:14 AM |
| #8 Sometimes it is more important to teach a lesson than to prove a point. The Marines have demonstrated without question that they could destroy the ragtag Sadr mob anytime they choose. But it is necessary for the Iraqi leadeship to handle the final disposition Najaf. Having the US decide the outcome does the Iraqi government no good. The image of hundreds of slaughtered Iraquis surrounding the shrine would not be a positive image to carry once the mainstream media started twisting the story of the Massacre of Najaf. Remember Waco? And we are not done with Fallujah yet. It has gone below the radar. |
| Posted by: john 2004-08-14 7:59:04 AM |
| #7 The Only rational reason for this pull back in Najaf is that al-Sadr has in fact wired the Imam Ali Mosque for detonation should any forces, Iraqi or US, attempt to storm the Mosque.That is a result that neither Allawi or we can live with. The phrase, "Opperational Pause," certainly after Falluja, just sticks in my craw...but this possible blowing up of the Imam Ali Mosque is at the bottom of this. I would also hazzard to guess that Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani gave tacit approval to this action initially, but the final assualt has, once again, taken too long in coming and the pressure is on him now to help broker the cease-fire, whereas before he had washed his hands of Sadr. This is all depressing, but this is my analysis of what is going on. Checkmated by al-Sadr yet once again. Sadr should have been assassinated almost a year ago when I first recommended it here. Best Wishes, Traveller |
| Posted by: Traveller 2004-08-14 5:46:53 AM |
| #6 Mr. Powell set terms that appeared to reflect a growing conviction in Washington that the Najaf confrontation has become a watershed, with repercussions that could crucially affect American hopes of wresting order out of what has become an increasingly chaotic situation across much of Iraq. Along with Mr. Sadr throwing much of Shiite Iraq into turmoil, Sunni Muslim insurgents in a dozen cities have so defied American troops and the government in Baghdad as to have reduced much of Iraq into a patchwork of rebellion and disorder. This is what happens when you don't do as you say you're going to do. If you say you're going to capture or kill someone, do it. If you're going to bring some order into all this chaos, do it! If either of those two require some harsh measures, including imposing martial law, or a curfew, or whatever, by all means DO IT! These Shiite assholes are playing our (well, most of "our", except for myself) "compassions" like a damn fiddle, and they're getting the better of us. |
| Posted by: Bomb-a-rama 2004-08-14 2:25:34 AM |
| #5 To defeat someone....I mean really DEFEAT someone.... you MUST stomp 'em into the dirt.... AND MAKE 'EM LIKE IT. No negotiations....no bargaining....JUST KICK THEIR FUCKING ASS AND MAKE 'EM REMEMBER IT FOREVER. We are pussyfootin' around with these filthy muslim animals....tryin' to make sure they retain their dignity, in defeat. A defeat with their permission, if you will. They must be humiliated, totally stripped of any pretense of dignity, and sent home with their tails tucked between their legs....OR DEAD. You dictate terms of surrender to the defeated, not ask their permission to defeat them. Goddamnit....let's get this thing over with....!!! |
| Posted by: Halfass Pete 2004-08-14 2:24:12 AM |
| #4 This sort of crap must stop. Now. I think Bush is getting some seriously bad advice and it's going to cost him the presidency in November. Then we're really screwed. |
| Posted by: PBMcL 2004-08-14 2:08:02 AM |
| #3 How can you defeat someone, if every time you have 'em on the ropes.....you quit swinging???? This is bullshit!!!! Kill them motherfuckers....NOW!!! How do you teach lessons.....when you do not punish??? |
| Posted by: Halfass Pete 2004-08-14 1:55:42 AM |
| #2 This is insane! Letting al Sadr live is to let a known terrorist keep inciting violence and insurrection against the government. If you take him out, sure everyone will go nuts. But are they going to do that forever? Decisive action is needed now. The longer you wait the more legitimate Tater becomes. |
| Posted by: Alaska Paul 2004-08-14 1:38:46 AM |
| #1 But the mere word of it among his fighters set off a fresh round of fury against the Americans, with vows of suicide bombings and other renewed attacks. This is why we must kill them all now and end this once and for all. Trust Sadr to tell the truth? You may as well trust John Kerry to tell the truth too. They both will claim to have a mandate from God to lie.... |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2004-08-14 1:13:26 AM |