| Submit your comments on this article |
| Iraq-Jordan |
| NYT Account of Najaf Situation |
| 2004-08-18 |
| via MyWay - posted in full By ALEX BERENSON and SABRINA TAVERNISE - Published: August 18, 2004 NAJAF, Iraq, Aug. 17 - The rebel cleric Moktada al-Sadr refused to meet here on Tuesday with a peace delegation that traveled from a national conference in Baghdad, and fighting between American forces and his Shiite militia intensified. It is not yet clear whether Mr. Sadr's refusal to meet the delegates will scuttle the chance for talks between him and the interim Iraqi government. Members of the mission said they were not upset that Mr. Sadr had turned them away, and both sides said lower-level discussions had been cordial. The delegation had come to ask that Mr. Sadr give up control of the Imam Ali shrine and join the political process in return for amnesty for his fighters. For almost two weeks, his forces have battled Americans in Najaf, in the Sadr City district in Baghdad, and in several cities across southern Iraq. |
| Posted by:.com |
| #19 Why isn't it Reverend Sadr, kinda like Reverend Jackson or Reverend Sharpton? I'll let our resident Islamists answer that one, As for why Misters Jackson and Sharpton are called "Reverend", you'd have to go way back in American history for that tradition. |
| Posted by: Pappy 2004-08-18 11:40:41 PM |
| #18 Mr. Sadr? Why isn't it Reverend Sadr, kinda like Reverend Jackson or Reverend Sharpton? |
| Posted by: John Simmins 2004-08-18 12:37:58 PM |
| #17 Oh, and "Adopt-a-Sniper" is also another great site to help out these guys! |
| Posted by: Dar 2004-08-18 11:13:57 AM |
| #16 I suppose most Rantburgers likely stop by at Kim du Toit daily as well, but if you want to help our military snipers continue to rack up totals like these--and they're probably the best and most needed type of soldiers for urban combat like this--check his site for periodic Walter and Adam updates. There's been a great outpouring of support from readers to help these guys get scopes and laser rangefinders--T-shirts will be available for order soon as well. |
| Posted by: Dar 2004-08-18 11:11:53 AM |
| #15 DN: The Mahdi reference also plays well in the Islamic world because of the revolt in Sudan, culminating in the defeat of Gordon at Khartoum in the 1880s, the classic jihadi dream come true. It's also interesting that when the Caliph of Sudan was defeated at Omdurman, the whole Messianic Muslim movement collapsed. The fact is that such movements are motivated no differently from other revolutionary movements - success begets success, failure begets failure. And the more failures are handed out to the jihadis - in the form of large numbers jihadis sent to paradise - the less enthused they will be about taking on the Great Satan. |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2004-08-18 11:01:07 AM |
| #14 Images of people scrambling through blown apart houses are always sympathetically viewed across the world. What's always missing from this is an image of militia members shooting from a house before it gets flattened. |
| Posted by: Bomb-a-rama 2004-08-18 10:37:46 AM |
| #13 ZF, The Mahdi reference also plays well in the Islamic world because of the revolt in Sudan, culminating in the defeat of Gordon at Khartoum in the 1880s, the classic jihadi dream come true. Of course, they usually leave out the fact that all of Gordon's troops were Egyptians and black Sudanese, and, therefore, fellow Muslims. |
| Posted by: Dreadnought 2004-08-18 10:37:27 AM |
| #12 We're starting to put together our plan," Captain Moran said. "We're forcing the enemy to react to us a little more, tightening the noose." sounds good to me. |
| Posted by: Liberalhawk 2004-08-18 10:24:55 AM |
| #11 MD: That the Marines killed 62 Mahdi is even better news, because Maj. David Holahan, executive officer of the 1st Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment said, ’’We sat still during the entire time on purpose.’’ Just to clarify - the word Mahdi means Messiah. Sadr is claiming to be the Muslim Messiah (yes, they have apocalyptic books like the Revelations, except their version involves a Messiah who vanquishes unbelievers and the enemies of Islam). |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2004-08-18 9:54:41 AM |
| #10 ...Perhaps they've got a real hunger for raisins. |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2004-08-18 9:36:46 AM |
| #9 "But Mr. Sadr's forces, who withstood an American attack in the spring and have survived the past two weeks of heavy fighting, appeared to be in good spirits." From the Joseph Goebbels Correspondence School of Progaganda --- "Whilst the Wermacht is getting its butt kicked on the Eastern Front, be sure to release rosy statements about the morale of our sprited Germanic troops." Appears that someone on the NYT has taken a page from Old Joe's lesson. |
| Posted by: Highlander 2004-08-18 9:34:27 AM |
| #8 One person who helped organize the conference described the showdown as a "big and serious split among the big parties," with religious Islamic parties doggedly insisting on bigger representation than secular Sunnis and Kurds were willing to give. Notice how this is worded -- as if the Sunni's and Kurds are repressing the 'Religious Islamic parties' .... I'm sure the thugs were able to prepare their script and demostration for the delegation and (more importantly) reporters. |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2004-08-18 8:48:10 AM |
| #7 That the Marines killed 62 Mahdi is even better news, because Maj. David Holahan, executive officer of the 1st Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment said, ’’We sat still during the entire time on purpose.’’ Hate to think what will happen when they start to move. |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2004-08-18 8:42:59 AM |
| #6 Marine snipers killed 62 people on Tuesday If this is true, this is really remarkably good news. Principally this means that, at least to a degree, the gloves have been taken off. There is no better way to wear down the Jihadist than a relentless sniping campaign...it is in effect, our version of IED's But there is more to it than that...soldiers kill other solider or, in this instance, fighters. There is a logic and honor to this cruel calculus...it is what we are supposed to be doing. On the other hand, I recently saw some footage of 500lb bombs being dropped on Sumarra...and the action seemed to me to automatically give a propaganda opening to the other side. Images of people scrambling through blown apart houses are always sympathetically viewed across the world. Of course, this is a grunt's eye view...I'm sure the air arm would insist that their methods are...at least safer for our troops. It is a fair point. But in this arena US troops pretty much can take care of themselves...they just want to be able to freely kill whoever needs killing. And if you're going to kill a man, (and the Jihadist are men), it still seems best to kill him yourself. Kind of the honorable thing to do. So to me, the sniper news is good news...if the sniper teams are allowed to relentlessly continue their work. Best Wishes, Traveller |
| Posted by: Traveller 2004-08-18 5:28:58 AM |
| #5 My brother is french and he reads Le Monde and Figaro daily. I tell him that those papers represent the way the world is according to the french but in french. Whereas the NYT's presents the world according to the french but in English! |
| Posted by: Jack is Back 2004-08-18 3:28:54 AM |
| #4 Sounds like good urban practice for the sniper teams. Snipers wear down the oposition. I bet at least half of those 1000 are reconsidering their prospects of survival, the rest are on drugs and don't care. The NYT is such a "fag rag" as one of my friends put it. Any negative spin they put on anything is suspect.. well all the crap they print is suspect actually. |
| Posted by: Flamebait93268 2004-08-18 2:31:38 AM |
| #3 Why is the high morale of 1000 members of Sadr's forces material if they are getting exterminated at a rate of 10 a day? Exuberant dead jihadis are more of a sanitation problem than an impediment to Iraqi freedom. Does anyone know of a miltary blogger that is in the action there? I have enjoyed reading MY WAR. The NC paper that was embedded with the USMC in Fallujah was also excellent reading. I would bet that the morale of the guys wasting the Mahdi Army would be pretty high. |
| Posted by: Super Hose 2004-08-18 2:16:36 AM |
| #2 Marine snipers killed 62 people on Tuesday Technically true. But why not mention they were basically terrorists as well? But Mr. Sadr’s forces, who withstood an American attack in the spring and have survived the past two weeks of heavy fighting, appeared to be in good spirits. Sometimes...you just gotta stand back and laugh at these reporter jerks. Mr. Sadre, eh? Good spirits? Survived the US onslaught. Well he's a regular superman ain't he. |
| Posted by: Rafael 2004-08-18 2:10:44 AM |
| #1 Man, posting anything from the NYT makes me seeth and wish there was a hard revolution going on in the streets of the USA!! Between the Judges the ACLU and the leftist media, I feel it's a good time for a blood letting!! |
| Posted by: Long Hair Republican 2004-08-18 1:49:27 AM |