| Submit your comments on this article |
| Home Front: Politix |
| Powerline - Documents Used by Boston Globe Against Bush re: ANG Forged? |
| 2004-09-09 |
| The Globe story is itself based on last night's 60 Minutes report: "New questions on Bush Guard duty." The online version of the 60 Minutes story has links to the memos. Killian died in 1984; CBS states that it "consulted a handwriting analyst and document expert who believes the material is authentic." Readers Tom Mortensen and Liz MacDougald direct us to a FreeRepublic thread post no. 47 to this effect: Every single one of the memos to file regarding Bush's failure to attend a physical and meet other requirements is in a proportionally spaced font, probably Palatino or Times New Roman. In 1972 people used typewriters for this sort of thing (especially in the military), and typewriters used mono-spaced fonts. The use of proportionally spaced fonts did not come into common use for office memos until the introduction high-end word processing systems from Xerox and Wang, and later of laser printers, word processing software, and personal computers. They were not widespread until the mid to late 90's. Before then, you needed typesetting equipment, and that wasn't used for personal memos to file. Even the Wang and other systems that were dominant in the mid 80's used mono-spaced fonts. I doubt the TANG had typesetting or high-end 1st generation word processing systems. I am saying these documents are forgeries, run through a copier for 15 generations to make them look old. This should be pursued aggressively. . . . > > > Aaaah yes! Presidential Election Year! |
| Posted by:BigEd |
| #63 Hey guys back they finnally got the electric on,and to see this is just delicious .:) |
| Posted by: djohn66 2004-09-09 11:39:08 PM |
| #62 Well, what do you expect when your "experts" also double as Kerry campaign consultants? |
| Posted by: Dar 2004-09-09 11:23:01 PM |
| #61 In the August 18, 1973 memo "discovered" by 60 Minutes, Jerry Killian purportedly writes: Staudt has obviously pressured Hodges more about Bush. I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job. But wait! General Staudt retired in 1972. Hat tip to Powerlineblog |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2004-09-09 11:20:11 PM |
| #60 Breaking news: Dan Rather's first public statement on authenticity of Bush Guard memos. (hat tip: "Registered" at Free Republic) |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2004-09-09 11:02:22 PM |
| #59 I hope that this forge-a-thon results in more Americans learning about the Tailwind fiasco. The noise of both of these issues should be trumpeted together to acheive a Jericho effect for 60 Minutes. |
| Posted by: Super Hose 2004-09-09 10:48:21 PM |
| #58 Speaking of forgery, various dupers have been posting what are purported to be copies of a National Guard service document released by Bush himself in 2000. Both have a superscripted "th" after "111" in the second line, but not elsewhere in document. I hope Fred will bear with a double image post because this important: Duper exhibit A:  Duper exhibit B:  These are recognizably copies of the same original, even to the smudges. However, the all important "th" is plainly very different in each. In Duper B, it is darker than the adjacent "111"; in Duper A, it is lighter. In Duper B, the letters are visibly narrower, the underscore is much heavier relative to the letters, and the placement is measurably higher. Looks like forgery is a new cottage industry for LLL monkeys. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2004-09-09 10:47:38 PM |
| #57 LO - maybe so, but public ridicule of a MSM op in favor of Kerry is necessary.....and fun, heh heh |
| Posted by: Frank G 2004-09-09 10:26:56 PM |
| #56 Sure it wasn't the Clinton boys Bubba lent to get the Kerry campaign jump started? Could be. IMHO the only reason they're attached to the Kerry campaign is to ensure a loss and open the way for the Hildebeast's run in '08. |
| Posted by: AzCat 2004-09-09 10:25:53 PM |
| #55 Which tampons use Dan Rather? for advertising. I'm not using them, anymore! |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2004-09-09 10:21:33 PM |
| #54 The way to deal with the MSM is not to go after them (CBS, CNN, etc), but start going after their advertisers. If you go to the makers of such and such tampons or such and such laundry detergents and tell them that because they advertise with (insert your most detested member of the MSM here) you will no longer buy their products. If these companies get enough complaints they may/will pull their advertising. That will hit the MSM in the pocketbook and THAT will attract the attention of the shareholders and the corporate heads. |
| Posted by: Lurks Often 2004-09-09 10:18:54 PM |
| #53 I think the similarities to 1972 are striking, except that this time it is the Democrats who have been caught red handed. |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2004-09-09 10:15:52 PM |
| #52 it's getting really hard not to get cocky! The Kerry campaign is a shambles like nothing I've ever seen before! |
| Posted by: B 2004-09-09 10:13:29 PM |
| #51 nahhhhhh. IMHO CBS just bought into a tinfoil-hat effort to bring down Bushitler because of their desperation to keep the SS Kerry afloat. Rather needs to be frog-marched out and given early retirement |
| Posted by: Frank G 2004-09-09 10:12:42 PM |
| #50 Sure it wasn't the Clinton boys Bubba lent to get the Kerry campaign jump started? |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2004-09-09 10:09:28 PM |
| #49 This is just today's festivities. The next week should be hee-hee-larious. Daily Kos is slicing it and dicing it with any razor but Occam's, but it's going to be proved a forgery done on MS Word. It's just too obvious, even to the untrained eye. Getting caught out in a blatant forgery like that should be campaign seppuku for the Kerry boyz, and Dan Rather should henceforth be a figure of derision for his statements about how they get an "independent expert" to verify. |
| Posted by: Fred 2004-09-09 10:05:57 PM |
| #48 Heh. Just for yuks and giggles, I decided to try and duplicate the Killian memo ("1. Staudt has obviously pressured Hodges more about Bush...") myself with Microsoft Word 2003 on my Windows XP machine. I fired up MS Word and just started typing using the default settings-- didn't do a damn thing with page layout, margins, font selection, anything at all-- and produced an absolutely EXACT duplicate of the "memo" shown by CBS. Same letter spacing, same word spacing, line breaks at exactly the same places, the same letters line up precisely under the letters in the line above the same way in both cases, the whole nine yards. It is absolutely identical in every last detail except for the blurriness caused by the repeated photocopying. Somebody at CBS needs to be SPANKED. |
| Posted by: Dave D. 2004-09-09 9:17:37 PM |
| #47 Begala and mole-boy are too smart to have been behind this. A credible forgery would not really have been very difficult but whoever did this is so obvious that I am wondering if it might be a practical joke on the media. The only reason I don't suspect a false-flag operation (originated by Repubs to embarrass the media) is that no sane operator would imagine that CBS could fall for alleged 1970s documents that had obviously been composed on a computer. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2004-09-09 8:44:00 PM |
| #46 ABC link |
| Posted by: Frank G 2004-09-09 8:35:39 PM |
| #45 Dave, Dave, remember Watergate? And the cover up is always the worst part. I've been to Sam's Club to get an adequate supply of popcorn. |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2004-09-09 8:35:33 PM |
| #44 Old Spook - Begala and Carville. . . More likely an evil version of R2D2 & C3P0 |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-09-09 8:33:07 PM |
| #43 In the 40+ years I've been paying attention to politics, I have ***NEVER*** seen a clusterfuck like this one. Not even close. |
| Posted by: Dave D. 2004-09-09 8:13:43 PM |
| #42 Notice: Carvile and Begala (Skeletor and the Garden Gnome) join the campaign, a week later these documents show up mysteriously, and CBS News has a story ready to go in less than a week... Somethign smells very bad here. I hope this gets pinned on the human weasel, Carvile. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2004-09-09 8:08:17 PM |
| #41 Got Mugged again, 'eh Dan? KENNETH, WHAT'S THE FREQUENCY? HELLO? HELLO? |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-09-09 8:02:42 PM |
| #40 One would think that the senior managers at the parent companies, guys like Imelt at GE or Eisner at Disney would be going apeshit over this stuff. They aren't news guys and could give a damn about their staff's political leanings. But when those leanings directly affect job performance and seriously impact the image of the parent company, someone is going to get canned. The MSM is getting taken to the woodshed on an almost daily basis. I don't think that they get it yet, but my guess is that the free enterprise system is going to give them a lesson they will not soon forget. |
| Posted by: remote man 2004-09-09 7:59:44 PM |
| #39 ABC - We want to keep our jobs. We don't want to be in ratings limbo. Therefore we condemn the "competitor" CBS for the fraud. |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-09-09 7:44:56 PM |
| #38 The Axis Powers have broken ranks, the ABC evening news really slammed arch-competitor SeeBS over the forgeries tonight. No link yet. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2004-09-09 7:25:16 PM |
| #37 RC I didn't mean it that way. The idea of any propotional font being used on that sort of document in the 1970s is pretty damn ludicrus. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2004-09-09 7:05:56 PM |
| #36 VM Day..I'll drink to that! Wait a minute...NFL opener tonight - I was already plannin' on a few beers. Looks like I'm breakin' out the cowbell! |
| Posted by: Rex Mundi 2004-09-09 6:48:13 PM |
| #35 Dan Blather is a credulous old fool who should be fired at once. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2004-09-09 6:44:19 PM |
| #34 Even the fourth estate/fifth column can't get away with this. Fox is hitting it very hard and the WH should follow up with the highest possible profile. Alternate media like the internet and talk radio are also piling on. This is VM day, Victory over Media. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2004-09-09 6:39:45 PM |
| #33 Naughty boy Dan Rather. You will now type 1000 times 187th 187th 187th 187th 187th 187th 187th 187th 187th 187th . . . . . . . . . . |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-09-09 6:35:18 PM |
| #32 Hugh Hewitt has a document expert on now... A Mr Shriber (sp?) who is very cautious, but is bothered by the "th" situation we have been discussing. |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-09-09 6:30:56 PM |
| #31 McClellan should call for John Kerry to stand up and denounce CBS for the fraudulent documents they used and end his campaign of smear and fear. |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2004-09-09 6:30:12 PM |
| #30 Even though these documents becoming more and more obviously forgerys, the leftys who haven't gotten the word yet are getting near a climax enraptured, "Now we got 'em mode" Donna Brazile, and Tom Harkin are amongst them per Hugh Hewitt. Breathe heavy now folks, but tomorrow morning you will have a giant hangover from heavy alcohol consumption later this evening. |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-09-09 6:20:24 PM |
| #29 Some how I suspect Scott Mc Clellan will find a way to get it into the MSM. This is just too good and too big to pass on for him. |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2004-09-09 6:10:19 PM |
| #28 The only way to make heads roll at the conglomerate known as ViacomGeneralElectricMicrosoftCapitalCitiesDisneyAOL-SOL-TimeWarner is to hit 'em in the ratings and the stock price. Is it technically possible to use streaming media and blog/comment forums to create a web-based alternative to the TV networks? What platforms or technologies out there could do this? What kind of investment would be required? |
| Posted by: lex 2004-09-09 5:55:22 PM |
| #27 the media people responsible need to publicly lose their jobs over this Ain't gonna happen. The talking head on the story was Dan Rather. This story, if it makes it to the MSM, will be treated just like the Swiftvets. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-09-09 5:49:44 PM |
| #26 the media people responsible need to publicly lose their jobs over this |
| Posted by: Frank G 2004-09-09 5:47:16 PM |
#25  John? Who's doing this to you. Lemmmeee at 'em. I'll save ya! |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-09-09 5:17:06 PM |
| #24 Can't be. TGA won't let him in the country. |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2004-09-09 5:15:41 PM |
| #23 Zenster is Keyser Sorosey. |
| Posted by: lex 2004-09-09 5:14:29 PM |
| #22 Dukakis? Cherchez les fwancais. Col. Clouseau and the heroes of l'affaire Rainbow Warrior. |
| Posted by: lex 2004-09-09 5:13:39 PM |
| #21 Is Zenster Soros? |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2004-09-09 5:12:47 PM |
| #20 SPoD - If it is traced back to Soros, the person that screwed up will be found "lifeless" in a back alley somewhere. |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-09-09 5:09:49 PM |
| #19 I think this will be traced back to MoveOn.org and Sorros. They want to defeat Bush that bad. It's all just the result of frothy mouthed hate in a nice suit and tie for public consumption. The MSM is just doing what it always does and no one can expect them to admit that they have been fooled and are clowns. |
| Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-09-09 4:54:04 PM |
| #18 Time for the fat lady. |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2004-09-09 4:51:45 PM |
| #17 The superscript "th" on "187th" is a smoking gun, categorically impossible in 1972 unless, as others have said, Killian had his memo set on state-of-the-art professional type-setting machines, and maybe not even then. Big media is going down with Kerry. They are not just crooks and liars, they are stupid crooks and liars. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2004-09-09 4:46:37 PM |
| #16 not to harp on it, but don't these people have stockholders that they have to answer to? They are committing suicide in the era of a new and competitive media. It's just insane that their stockholders don't do something to protect their investments. I don't get it. |
| Posted by: B 2004-09-09 4:22:51 PM |
| #15 GK - You rascal. You took my idea. It would seem that of all the criminals that Dukakis furloughed there would be at least one decent forger among them. But ascribe it to Dukakis? Pure Genius! |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-09-09 4:21:20 PM |
| #14 It would seem that of all the criminals that Dukakis furloughed there would be at least one decent forger among them. Hey, dukas, call in a marker for you ole pal sKerry. Right now he needs all the help he can garner and the amateurs at CBS can't hack it. |
| Posted by: GK 2004-09-09 4:16:47 PM |
| #13 Watching a political riot develop in real-time To fu***** funny, I love the internet |
| Posted by: Heysenbergmayhavebeenhere 2004-09-09 4:08:01 PM |
| #12 Shipman -- a Linotype that matched EXACTLY the way Word formats a page? Also look here: http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/000838.php Bill at INDC Journal took the PDFs to a forensic document examiner. Conclusion: 90% certain they're fakes. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-09-09 3:48:04 PM |
| #11 Can't even produce a plausible forgery. And Ter-ay-zuh says WE'RE idiots? |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-09-09 3:42:10 PM |
| #10 So the papers were set on a LinoType.... big deal. LOL. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2004-09-09 3:39:03 PM |
| #9 EVERYONE - LOOK AT DRUDGE! |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-09-09 3:02:19 PM |
| #8 Remember everyone. Carville says Zell Miller was drugged by the RNC. Obviously a charge of drugging someone is out there to "balance" the charge of forgery. |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-09-09 2:58:00 PM |
| #7 Powerline refers to LGF: I opened Microsoft Word, set the font to Microsoftâs Times New Roman, tabbed over to the default tab stop to enter the date â18 August 1973,â then typed the rest of the document purportedly from the personal records of the late Lieutenant Colonel Jerry B. Killian. And my Microsoft Word version, typed in 2004, is an exact match for the documents trumpeted by CBS News as âauthentic.â More at link |
| Posted by: ed 2004-09-09 2:47:34 PM |
| #6 I used to find it disturbing, now I just find it irritating, boring and par-for-the-course when you're playing with a loaded deck, which the Liberals are. The (Old) Media are the Left's number one enablers and are clearly imploding because their boy Kerry is going down like the Titanic inspite of their best (and I do mean their best) efforts. They're so desperate, they don't even try to cover their lies anymore. This MemoGate thing follows upon the heels of the "Bush-crowd booed Clinton" false story of last Friday... Hurray that the mouse warriors of the blogosphere have struck a blow for Justice once again! Go Powerline! Go LGF! Go HughHewitt! |
| Posted by: GreatestJeneration 2004-09-09 2:37:18 PM |
| #5 I'm actually finding it disturbing - this low to which the lamestream media is sinking. Where are the stockholders of these papers? They better get their act together if they want their certificates to be worth more than the newsprint these lies are printed on. |
| Posted by: B 2004-09-09 2:28:02 PM |
| #4 And who is it that 'stole' an election? Politics has reached a new low when they can't even create a good forgery and plant it in some records. I think Kerry should publically eat the memo. |
| Posted by: Cyber Sarge 2004-09-09 2:12:02 PM |
| #3 wow! Too bad those who only get news through the lamestream press will never hear about it. Someone needs to sue someone over this one. |
| Posted by: B 2004-09-09 2:04:36 PM |
| #2 I think the bigger story eventually will be the story of these documents are a plant by political operatives, not that the documents are forgeries, but the MsM allowed a planted story to disseminate nationwide. |
| Posted by: badanov 2004-09-09 1:55:03 PM |
| #1 PS - Thanks Hugh Hewitt! |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-09-09 1:47:52 PM |
