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Iraq-Jordan
Fallujah Group Comes to Table
2004-10-07
Recent events seem to have had an impact.
This is the obligatory long-drawn out dickering as the Iraqi gummint tries to avoid having the city clobbered, the U.S. brings up the tanks and aircraft, and the jihadis attempt to scoot out the back door, moving on to the next Islamic Paradise...
Iraqi insurgents from Fallujah are in intense negotiations with the country's interim government to hand over control of the city to Iraqi troops, in hopes of averting a bloody military battle for the city of 300,000 that has become a haven for foreign guerrillas and a symbol of the limits of Baghdad's authority, according to representatives of both sides. "We have met representatives from Fallujah," the interim deputy prime minister, Barham Salih, said Wednesday. "We have had detailed discussion with these representatives, and we have agreed on a road map or a framework to facilitate the resolution of this conflict in Fallujah."
The negotiators can now go back to Fallujah and tell the jihadis how long they've got to get the important stuff out of town...
The talks apparently gained momentum Wednesday after the mujaheddin shura — or council of holy warriors — that now governs Fallujah voted overwhelmingly to accept the broad terms demanded by Iraq's government. By a vote of 10 to 2, the council agreed to eject foreign fighters, turn over all heavy weapons, dismantle checkpoints and allow the Iraqi National Guard to enter the city. In return, the city would not face the kind of U.S.-led. military offensive that reclaimed the central Iraqi city of Samarra from insurgents last week, a prospect that one senior Iraqi official said clearly grabbed the attention of the Fallujah delegation.
"Cheez, Mahmoud, you got a red dot on yer forehead!"
U.S. troops would remain outside the city and end the airstrikes that have shaken residential neighborhoods on an almost daily basis in recent weeks, according to one account of the terms now on the table.
That will allow the Bad Guys to pretend to comply for a few days, and subvert the ING that's allowed into the city. Remember how well the Fallujah Brigade worked...
"The government — the president, the prime minister and the defense minister — are serious in trying to reach a peaceful solution, and we are, too," said Khalid Hamoud Jumaili, the leader of an insurgent group known as Mohammads Army. Jumaili is one of six terrorists Fallujah residents who have been traveling to Baghdad in the past week to negotiate a peaceful end to the standoff. "Tomorrow I am going back to Fallujah to discuss some issues which are still not solved," Jumaili said in a brief telephone interview.
"Like whether to move the chemical weapons to al-Qaim or to Mosul..."
If a concrete agreement emerged — and proved successful — it would be a substantial boost for the interim government and for prospects for holding nationwide elections in January. Fallujah, an overwhelmingly Sunni Muslim city, has been the fiercest of several areas that remain beyond the reach of Baghdad's authority. It is notorious as the staging base for a steady barrage of strikes aimed at Iraqi government personnel, especially security recruits.
And that's not something I expect to see drop off before the elections in January. In fact, I expect to see them intensify, which means they're going to try talking about fixin' to get ready to hold negotiations on starting talks for at least the next couple months.
Negotiations also appeared to be moving toward a peaceful settlement in Sadr City, the Baghdad slum and insurgent stronghold that has been an urban battlefield for weeks. The talks were being driven by local leaders in Sadr City, where a homegrown militia loyal to Shiite Muslim cleric Moqtada Sadr is fighting a stubborn guerrilla campaign against U.S. Army armor and airstrikes.
That's because the Bad Guys there are actually getting thumped. Tater always negotiates when he's getting beaten up, and then goes back to making faces and hollering when the real soldiers have moved back out of range...
Iraq's interim prime minister, Ayad Allawi, told reporters Wednesday that a committee was being formed to hash out the final terms of a deal to dismantle the Mahdi Army, Sadr's militia.
They've only been saying they were going to dismantle it for the past year. That's the year after Tater said he wasn't really organizing it...
Allawi's government, which authorized a U.S. offensive against Sadr's militia in the southern city of Najaf in August, has been trying to persuade Sadr to join the political process. "No cease-fire," Allawi cautioned. "We responded positively to the request of the people of Sadr City. They will surrender their weapons to the authorities. They will dismantle any armed presence in the city. They will respect and abide by the rule of law in the city. They will welcome the police to go back, patrol the streets of the city."

Iraq's interim president, Ghazi Yawar, said in an interview this week that the Fallujah insurgents negotiating with the government "were more willing" to concede points after U.S. and Iraqi forces stormed Samarra on Friday. Yawar, a Sunni sheik, said he was approached by the Fallujah delegation, already deep in negotiations with a team led by Salih. "I share both the ethnicity and the faith" of the delegation, Yawar observed. But in sketching out the military offensive that would come if an agreement were not reached, Yawar said, "I expressed my personal views that it's going to be severe and it's going to be harsh. I said it so they would understand the truth: They might be the next operation."
The Big Stick seems to be working. More at the link.
Posted by:Steve White

#26  Fine. Get 'em to "the table", then slaughter them like pigs during the coffee and cigars...
Posted by: mojo   2004-10-07 5:40:41 PM  

#25  the goal for allawi is to govern Iraq. this is a civil war, and the several hundred thousand people of Fallujah and Ramadi arent going away. They have to be brought into the political process at some point. Kill all the terrorists sure, but bring the ordinary unsavory types in.
Posted by: Liberalhawk   2004-10-07 4:36:59 PM  

#24  Bad move. The objective should not be to secure Fajulla or any other piece of real estate. It should be to kill the terrorists.
Posted by: Whuling Sneth6118   2004-10-07 2:42:44 PM  

#23   You don' think they will keep their word do you? They consider Allawi an 'infidel' or an 'american puppet' and so lying to him is no problem and no stain on their honor.

The 'puppet' has Samarra, the Hilla regions and Sadr City as cards he's already showing.

I don't think Allawi is trying to influence the jihadis and the die-hard Baathists. Just Fallujans, the ones who've made a comfortable living in smuggling and other dubious but profitable endeavors. Split them off, even temporarily, and the environment changes.
Posted by: Pappy   2004-10-07 11:28:57 AM  

#22  CE No. 2 checking in, SH. Smaller pieces are easier for the crushers, heh heh.

The terrorists are getting hammered, so their only action is to negotiate to stall and buy time for another day. Just like WW2, Allawi needs to demand unconditional surrender. Anyone doing insurrection needs to surrender or be taken out. The rebels could never be trusted in a new government. The old time honored arab method of negotiate and lie and stab in the back, etc etc needs to be made obsolete. These fighters are a cancer to any civilization and need to be removed. Anything else is self-delusion. Tater and the Tots needed to be taken out a long time ago. And Sistani playing footsie with this thug illustrates my point.
Posted by: Alaska Paul   2004-10-07 11:26:39 AM  

#21  This is nothing more than a Ho Chi Minh-style attempt to buy time. Decrease the intensity of operations to string things out, and wait for something favorable to occur, either politically or on the battlefield. The seeming notion held by Allawi that terrorists can and should be brought into the political process is nonsense, and can only serve to make things more difficult than they need to be. We need to get on with the business of turning Iraq into a modern nation, and part of that job requires removing roadblocks; in this case, it means grinding these "insurgents" into dust.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama   2004-10-07 11:20:42 AM  

#20  SH - Civil Engineer here, and after the killing of those four US contractors I don't see any reason why Fallujah is our responsibility to rebuild. Destroy it, crush the rubble to class2 size aggregate and build a big Friggin runway for the IAF to use/refuel on the way to Iran
Posted by: Frank G   2004-10-07 10:57:18 AM  

#19  LH: Any settlement, if it keeps out US troops, has to allow the Iraqis to send in any units they damned please (oh alright, maybe a clause not allowing any 100% Kurdish units will be hard to avoid) That means the army units and commando units, not just local INGs.

Even China, which is at least nominally ethnically homogeneous, doesn't use local troops to quell large-scale local disturbances. The troops used in Beijing during the Tiananmen square incident were from another region altogther.
Posted by: Zhang Fei   2004-10-07 10:35:53 AM  

#18  well, actually "put up a parking lot"
Posted by: RWV   2004-10-07 10:35:10 AM  

#17  Super Hose, as Joni Mitchell sang in Big Yellow Taxi: "pave Paradise and make it a parking lot."
Posted by: RWV   2004-10-07 10:32:41 AM  

#16  This stinks like a hudna. These people have no honor and we have nothing to gain by talking to them. Shoot them in the f*cking face and have done with it.
Posted by: BH   2004-10-07 10:06:58 AM  

#15  note also - this doesnt have to last forever. If Fallujah is quiet till January, and especially if the attacks in Baghdad which come out of Fallujah diminish, that makes an election much easier. Which improves govt legitimacy. At that point they and go in and clean out Fallujah again.

Posted by: Liberalhawk   2004-10-07 9:54:24 AM  

#14  key points
1. despite the "shura" theres apparently no unity inside Fallujah. There are Zarq and his foreign jihadis. There are local wahabi crazies. There are ex-Baathists (who may overlap with the local wahabis) there are local thugs, and criminals. There are smugglers. There are local tribal leaders, who overlap with the smugglers, and may overlap with the wahabis. AFAICT its more complex than Sammara, and that was not simple. The key is breaking up the insurgency - that seems to have been the goal of recent military strikes, and is certainly part of the goal of negotiations, and may be the goal of covert activities as well.

2. There aint gonna be no more Fallujah brigade. We shouldve learned, and the Iraqi govts negotiating position should be better now. Any settlement, if it keeps out US troops, has to allow the Iraqis to send in any units they damned please (oh alright, maybe a clause not allowing any 100% Kurdish units will be hard to avoid) That means the army units and commando units, not just local INGs. As it is the army units and commando units will be severely tested cleaning out the foreign jihadis and anyone else who doesnt accept the deal.
Posted by: Liberalhawk   2004-10-07 9:52:20 AM  

#13  You don' think they will keep their word do you? They consider Allawi an 'infidel' or an 'american puppet' and so lying to him is no problem and no stain on their honor. After all they consider the murder and rape of children 'honorable'.....

I think they will simply hide the foreign fighters until the pressure lets up and then go right back to the same.
Posted by: CrazyFool   2004-10-07 9:34:09 AM  

#12  It's amazing how cooperative bad guys becoem when they realize they are going to die.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge   2004-10-07 8:56:30 AM  

#11  As in Najaf, there's a significant warren of tunnels under Falluja. Clearing street by street also means identifying tunnel exits first,then blocking them off.
Posted by: RN   2004-10-07 8:51:40 AM  

#10  The only problem is that the foreign fighters in Fallujah will not leave, so its going to get ugly when they try to clear the city and bring in Iraqi troops that are form outside the region.

Becasue of the moves in Samarra, and in the Hilla region and recent activity in Sadr City (which is Shia, not a nice place for Wahabbi Sunnis foreigners to go, like Zarqawi), those guys are running out of places to hide, stash ordnance, and run ops from.

Thats why they will nto leave Fallujah without a fight. If they do, then the big thing is to make sure they really left (with hard searches, etc), and if they have really gone, then find where they went.
Posted by: OldSpook   2004-10-07 8:33:40 AM  

#9  We keep the pressure on. Continue operations around Hilla.

I won't believe that these Fallujah "negotiators" are serious until I see, and the nation sees, that they've tarred and feathered all AIF, and I don't just mean the Zarkawi guys.

Our boys have put the lie to what real power and commitment can do. These guys are only negotiating because we've shown them we're serious. Dead serious.
Posted by: RMcLeod   2004-10-07 4:27:35 AM  

#8  Super Hose ....... Falluja. Just look at it as an urban renewal project.
Posted by: dennisw   2004-10-07 2:56:08 AM  

#7  Before making a decision, I would like to get the opinion of some civil engineers. I would hate to see the opportunity to level the place wasted if continued demolition will make it easier to rebuild. We might be able to build a more beautiful city more cost-effectively if we expend some more ord now rather than doing some rebuilding and then half to re-level the place down the road. Remember the adage: measure twice and cut once. :-)
Posted by: Super Hose   2004-10-07 2:52:53 AM  

#6  My theory is GW lowers the boom on Falluja right after the election. US casualties impact hard on GW's re-election chances so we have been biding our time. Our military has been. Our warriors are ready to rumble, to prove themselves against Sunni Triangle scum. And Tater's tots if need be.
Posted by: dennisw   2004-10-07 2:37:21 AM  

#5  I was being glib - (sort of). It would be great if they agreed to the terms. Maybe they are looking at Sadr and thinking that efforts to maintain power through the political process looks better than being dead. As long as they turn over the foreign fighters and fanatics - it just might work.
Posted by: 2b   2004-10-07 1:40:14 AM  

#4  Kind of. But this is the Iraqis' decision to make.
Posted by: Pappy   2004-10-07 1:31:20 AM  

#3  true..but I'm not really seeing a downside if they don't comply. We'd all be a bit happier if they snuffed a few thousand more jihadi's before they pulled out.
Posted by: 2b   2004-10-07 1:27:13 AM  

#2  I'm actually ambivalent ... wasn't this the agreement the first time around with al-Sadr?
Posted by: Edward Yee   2004-10-07 1:19:20 AM  

#1  Another fabulous success by our mighty military. Too bad that Senator Kerry, Libs and MSM undermine their efforts and success for cheap political gain.
Posted by: 2b   2004-10-07 1:12:10 AM  

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