Question: Could you explain the background of the legal draft revision of the body of Islamic law introduced by your team?
There are several reasons, actually. It started in 2001 when the Office for the State Minister for Women's Empowerment introduced a policy, namely zero tolerance, which laid the foundation for a national drive against any form of violence. One form of violence that must be eliminated is culturally driven violence. We identified some of the roots of culturally driven violence in some of the articles in the body of Islamic law (KHI).

The second reason came in 2002, when the Directorate General of Religious Judiciary at the Ministry of Religious Affairs proposed a bill on religious courts for marriage and inheritance. But the draft only copied and pasted KHI's draft without any significant changes. Of course, it spelled out penalties. For example, those who practice polygamy in a way that is not in line with the law could face a Rp 20 million fine. But who would monitor for violations? Could the police do that as the ministry does not have officers?

Even if the law was strictly implemented, it would be prone to corruption. People would do anything to get Rp 20 million. It would be better to ban polygamy all at once instead. It would be very dangerous if the bill was deliberated and passed by the House of Representative as it is.

I heard the draft has been submitted by the Supreme Court, which took over the supervision of the religious courts in June, to get the President's consent before it is brought to the House. Imagine if we did nothing to the bill.

Some say your team's draft revision is a revolution in Islamic law.
I don't think so. For example, the ban against polygamy is not new to Muslim societies. It came into effect in Tunisia in 1959 and then Turkey.

Some mainstream Muslim figures say they will not approve the draft revision.
Of course, my team and I anticipated that. Some people in the ministry have also opposed the draft. But we expect people to open up their minds and see that the KHI is not sacred. It is debatable and revisable. It is laws made by humans and for our benefit. Why can't we be realistic and rational?

The KHI was introduced in 1991 through a presidential decree. What were the reasons behind its introduction?
It was issued because the government was very authoritarian. It was actually a response by the government to complaints by people about inconsistent verdicts by the religious courts because the courts used different fiqih (Islamic jurisprudence). There was no Islamic law unification back then. People were not used to the differences. Unfortunately, instead of educating people to accept differences, the government gathered ulemas and Islamic law experts to create the KHI for the sake of (political) stability.

Are you facing different challenges with this draft?
Yes, but I won't give up. Five years ago, no Indonesian imagined there would be a direct presidential election. And now we just held a peaceful direct presidential election. I know we are facing tougher challenges for this draft. It may take us more than five years. Religious issues cannot be taken for granted. Who can say that one opinion is the most authentic? The draft revision is not rigid, everyone is welcome to discuss it, without any political motives.

What has been the public response so far?
We have held a series of discussions and the opposition is unbelievable on two issues: Interfaith marriage and polygamy. Most of the participants could accept other articles in the draft. Some of them told me that if articles on interfaith marriage and polygamy were approved, they would prefer to be atheists.

What is the actual danger of interfaith marriage? Corruption is more dangerous than interfaith marriage, as the former harms the nation. Actually, Islam provides many opinions on interfaith marriage. I just cannot understand why it must be banned. You cannot agree with interfaith marriage, but you cannot order others to follow your belief.

Polygamy causes various social excesses, particularly at the expense of the abandoned wives and children whose status in society is affected. Actually, we believe Islam is monogamous. Polygamy is for prophets and those who have the same level as prophets, not for common human beings like us. People might boast they can uphold fairness in practicing polygamy, but why are 90 percent of polygamous marriages not registered with the state? They must hide their status. Therefore, our draft says that an Islamic marriage is not legal without registering it with the state.

Some Muslim figures may oppose you, but have you won support from other groups? Women groups, perhaps?
We have received some support. But, well, I am rather sad to say that most Muslim women do not understand their rights. They just take their religion for granted. They never question anything when it comes to religion despite some of them having obtained a master's or doctorate. You see, most of them think that being a housewife means you must do household chores without help from their husband. Come on, you don't need a womb to cook, do you? I understand that we live in a patriarchal society, but we must be rational and realistic.

Some people have accused your team of not having convincing arguments to back up some of the articles in the draft?
They may say that, but we studied thousands of books and fiqih over two years. We do not make a textual analysis only as a textbook does not talk; it's humans who talk. My team consists of seven men and three women. We are not paid for this work.