| Submit your comments on this article | |
| Home Front: Politix | |
| Florida, Colorado judicial rulings on voting | |
| 2004-10-19 | |
| TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) - People who cast provisional ballots at the wrong precinct are not entitled to have their votes counted, the Florida Supreme Court ruled Monday, rejecting an argument by labor unions that the rule wrongly disenfranchises voters. In an unanimous ruling, the court said the law clearly states provisional ballots must be counted only if the person was entitled to vote "at the precinct," and that the constitution gives the Legislature the authority to dictate voting rules. Under Florida law, if voters show up at a polling place but officials there have no record they are registered, they are given provisional ballots. Those ballots are held until officials determine if the voters were entitled to vote at that precinct and had not already cast ballots. If they should have been allowed to vote at that precinct, the ballots count; if not, they are thrown out. A group of labor unions sued over the ballot law, saying it unconstitutionally disenfranchised voters who The Florida court's ruling contradicted a ruling last week by a federal judge in Ohio. U.S. District Judge James Carr blocked a directive requiring poll workers to send voters to their correct precinct, ruling that Ohio voters can cast provisional ballots as long as they are in the county where they are registered. Ohio's secretary of state is appealing. Howard Simon, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union in Florida, which supported the plaintiffs in the Florida case, said the precinct requirement is a remnant of an outdated system. "This is like saying you can only do your banking in this building downtown," Simon said. "What we're seeing here is the difficulty of trying to drag Florida kicking and screaming out of the horse and buggy era."
Also Monday, Hoffman overturned a rule that prevented voters who request provisional ballots on Election Day from voting if they had earlier requested an absentee ballot. Hoffman ruled those voters may cast provisional ballots at their precincts if they swear they did not turn in the absentee ballot. Before counting the provisional ballot, election officials would have to confirm that the person had indeed voted legally. Pete Maysmith, program director of the plaintiff public interest group Common Cause, said he was disappointed by the ID ruling, which he warned could reduce voter turnout, but had not decided whether to appeal. He called the absentee-ballot ruling "a terrific victory" that will allow more Coloradans to vote | |
| Posted by:Steve White |
| #28 they're providing incentives to the Kausfiles' "landslide" voters. Many will be so turned off by the hijinx they'll vote for W (if it looks like he's winning in the polls) to avoid a legal squabble. As Hugh sez - they can't cheat if it's not close |
| Posted by: Frank G 2004-10-19 9:22:50 PM |
| #27 They are talking for government by lawsuit. No, they're talking about removing our last means of self-governance. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-10-19 8:09:49 PM |
| #26 Eric Holder is on TV for the DNC / Kerry folks right now telling how they will be in court regardless. They are talking for government by lawsuit. Talk about turning off the electorate. |
| Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-10-19 6:11:01 PM |
| #25 A freeking amazing why would showing a valid ID be a problem? It is illegal to ask for an ID in California... On one of the few occasions I say we need FEDERAL INTERVENTION. Congress could demand ID for all federal elections, but won't. In California, the poll workers require the 1st person in line to visually inspect the ballot box, to be sure nothing is there, and then be a witness to it being locked... I was #1 at the recall election, so it fell on ol' BigEd to look inside the box at LA County precinct 3850447. I commented, "All hanging chads cleaned out!" I could tell who was who - the Dems grunted, and the GOPs laughed under their breath. One of the poll workers, a neighbor, is a known GOP.... |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-10-19 5:46:15 PM |
| #24 "I'm too lazy to go down to the DMV and wait in line for an hour and get a free ID card. I'm also too stupid to figure out the directions to the polling place printed on the back of the sample ballot. Plus, standing in line for 30 minutes to vote is way too boring. "But I am a concerned and involved citizen and My vote(s) should count." Sure. I actually vote on election day every time. It's just a 2-mile detour on the way to work and 5 minutes (primary) to 20 minutes (Presidential) to actually vote. The polls open at 0600 and I'm usually #001 or #002 (in 2000 I was #014). When I'm in line, I chat with the others (never about for whom we're voting) and just enjoy the common citizenship. The guy (or gal) next to Me could be a student or or an investment broker or a doctor or a Sargeant in the Air Force. I would have no complains about proving My ID to vote. Heck, I have to show ID to pick up a package at the Post Office. |
| Posted by: jackal 2004-10-19 4:30:29 PM |
| #23 Would a mug shot count as "a state-issued photo ID?" |
| Posted by: Seafarious 2004-10-19 3:48:10 PM |
| #22 Folks, this voting session is going to become an absolute nightmare. The LLL and Dems will use EVERY incident as an opening to bottle this thing up in the courts. They are concerned that they cannot win, so in the spirit of the ends justifying the means, they will sabotage the Nov vote if there is a chance of their candidate losing. The thing that I worry about is that the LLL will destroy the credibility of the voting process. This arguing about objecting to having to show IDs is just another tool of the LLL to skew the voting process. Hell, you cannot even get on a plane without a government ID. The thing that really burns my ass is that NEITHER party in Congress has demanded auditing of voting rolls nationwide that could eliminate fraud. The message of the absolutely sloppy method of registering voters and the incompetence of many voting officials is a bad message to send to our young people. |
| Posted by: Alaska Paul 2004-10-19 3:46:10 PM |
| #21 SPOD - Same here - schools are funded via property taxes. I just think if people had to actually write out a check for schools they would value them (and education) more. Just as if people had to actually write a check for their federal taxes (and not rely on 'unseen' payroll withholding) they would pay more attention to what the feds are blowing it on... Ok... enough for straying off-topic :) |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2004-10-19 3:32:37 PM |
| #20 Even the French lost their collective heads over cake. |
| Posted by: RN 2004-10-19 1:28:48 PM |
| #19 A democratic government is the only one in which those who vote for a tax can escape the obligation to pay it. -- Alexis de Tocqueville Or...the USA will cease to be great when a majority of the voting public realizes it can vote itself someone else's money. -- RN Posted by: RN 2004-10-19 1:09:45 PM I seem to recall something about the Romans voting themselves bread and circuses . . . |
| Posted by: Jame Retief 2004-10-19 1:26:21 PM |
| #18 Schools around here are funded by property tax. Seems to work fine. Earning citizenship works for me. |
| Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-10-19 1:14:55 PM |
| #17 A democratic government is the only one in which those who vote for a tax can escape the obligation to pay it. -- Alexis de Tocqueville Or...the USA will cease to be great when a majority of the voting public realizes it can vote itself someone else's money. -- RN |
| Posted by: RN 2004-10-19 1:09:45 PM |
| #16 Utterly ridiculous. THe polling places are open early and close late. And even if the election date inconveniences you, you can still vote early. My own city allows early voting between Oct 18 and Oct 29. The only possible reason for one to complain about being required to vote where he lives is that it doesn't allow him to vote multiple times. I can't wait for this election to be over. |
| Posted by: lex 2004-10-19 1:02:43 PM |
| #15 Mrs Davis - Damn good point. You dont pay - you dont play. SPOD - I would go for a Starship Troopers approach too - or something like it. I also think people should have to pay something (as in write out a check - no payroll withholding BS) for public school. Have it on a sliding scale or someting if you must but have the parents pay something so they value it. Hell it would be worth it just to hear the Democrats howl.... FYI - The 'starship troopers' approach is that you have to 'earn' citizenship (and the right to vote) through actual civil service (as opposed to service at the charity of your choice) and/or service in the armed forces. |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2004-10-19 1:00:43 PM |
| #14 I would be all for the Starship Troopers method. Just make sure there aren't any big bugs OK. |
| Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-10-19 12:49:45 PM |
| #13 No representation without taxation. |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2004-10-19 12:43:25 PM |
| #12 Raptor: I'm not saying those would be the specific numbers. And, it's just an idea on how to cut those who THRIVE off of my tax dollars from voting themselves MORE of my tax dollars. Read an interesting book on the tax situations in Colonial U.S....did you know that the Boston Tea Party was over a 2% import tax? Two percent! My how the founding fathers would flip over 30-40% taxes! And, BTW, it would be based upon Adjusted Gross Income, of which sKerry and his wife reported LESS than Dubya (who reported somewhere in the neighborhood of $200k or so...don't remember exact numbers). |
| Posted by: BA 2004-10-19 12:36:28 PM |
| #11 Lets see BA,according to your post THK's would be between 50,000 and 100,000 votes.That is some siriously flawed Democracy.Why don't we just use the"Starship Troopers"style of democracy. |
| Posted by: raptor 2004-10-19 12:22:25 PM |
| #10 CF - Now there you go, again, being all logical and everything. Don't you know that life is about how you feel? |
| Posted by: .com 2004-10-19 11:59:22 AM |
| #9 BA - I agree I think people on Welfare should not be allowed to vote. If you dont contribute you dont vote. Seniors (on Social security, pension, etc...) would be entitled to vote because they have already contributed. And require people to register in person with valid picture id and proof of citizenship (Birth Certificate / passport / erc..). Unless they have a valid reason (confined to a bed, etc...). |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2004-10-19 11:56:03 AM |
| #8 #6 Dennis W: "This seem to a real barrier for some people, not that I have an ounce of sympathy. If they can't haul fat ass down to DMV then they shouldn't be allowed to vote. They use the day to exchange tips on welfare hustles and scams but can't figure out how to get valid photo ID??" See http://boortz.com for more on your concept. Neal Boortz (Libertarian voting for Bush this year/AM radio show host in Atlanta) has a good point on this. He says that anyone gaining financial benefits from living off the gov't dime should not be allowed to vote and only those who pay taxes (fund the welfare recipients) should be able to vote...like allowing those who pay the bills decide where the money goes vs. those who get "free" benefits take what they get. Good insight. He's also argued for allowing everyone to vote once and then giving additional votes dependent on how much you pay in taxes (like 1 additional vote for every $10k you pay in federal taxes). Interesting concept and he cites the Constitution on this one (the Amendment only bars the gov't from keeping people from voting based upon race, religion or ethnicity). Maybe there should be a test (like "Who is you Federal Representative and who are your two Senators?") before allowing someone to vote. I don't know what the answer is to this problem, but when almost 50% of the population has NO Federal income tax liability at all...I don't know that they should be allowed to vote (they only vote for their self interest...not what's best for the nation). |
| Posted by: BA 2004-10-19 11:45:10 AM |
| #7 Pete Maysmith, program director of the plaintiff public interest group Common Cause, said he was disappointed by the ID ruling, which he warned could reduce voter turnout The Colorado DMV also issues photo IDs (but not to illegal aliens) thus reducing "voter" turnout. Thank you Judge Hoffman! |
| Posted by: Football Fan 2004-10-19 11:04:23 AM |
| #6 Lots of voters don't drive, thus don't have photo ID driver's licenses. But my state, and I would guess all others, do provide for you to go to the DMV and get a plain old photo ID. Of course you have to submit some documents proving you are who you say you are. This seem to a real barrier for some people, not that I have an ounce of sympathy. If they can't haul fat ass down to DMV then they shouldn't be allowed to vote. They use the day to exchange tips on welfare hustles and scams but can't figure out how to get valid photo ID?? The latest scam in Florida is all the phony hurricane claims paid out to the po' via FEMA. Such as claiming water damage in your dwelling and damage to your beat up old junker was caused by falling tree limbs. |
| Posted by: dennisw 2004-10-19 6:20:40 AM |
| #5 Any act of voter fraud should be considered treason and punished with death. It is an act after all, designed to damage our country in a time of war. Is there any act of rebellion more destructive without the use of arms than voter fraud? No. Now, doing this would of course, eliminate the entire Democratic party, but I can live with that. |
| Posted by: Silentbrick 2004-10-19 2:25:28 AM |
| #4 True eLarson and it will also tend to suppress the vote among those who are dead, those who regularly vote in multiple precints, and other similar folks. |
| Posted by: AzCat 2004-10-19 2:10:39 AM |
| #3 Requiring a valid ID to be shown will depress voter turnout... among whom? Other than the folks whose pictures adorn the post office wall, that is. |
| Posted by: eLarson 2004-10-19 2:07:34 AM |
| #2 Exactly so - every word, SPo'D. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-10-19 1:56:33 AM |
| #1 A freeking amazing why would showing a valid ID be a problem? How the hell can you live in modern society without one? Let me see I need to find out out were I am supposed to go and vote I can call the registrar and get the info over the phone. DUH. The only people worried about this crap want to steal an election. The stuffing of the balot boxes by the Dems has already started. George Sorros is footing the bill. |
| Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-10-19 1:45:55 AM |