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| Time for a rethink: Clinton spin king | |||
| 2004-11-03 | |||
DEMOCRAT kingmaker James Carville said his party would need "a lot of reassessment" after Republicans strengthened their hold on Capitol Hill. "I had hoped and thought we would do better," said Mr Carville, the strategist often credited for engineering Bill Clinton's political victories. "But we didn't and as a party we need a lot of reassessment right now. We didn't do that well in 2000, we didn't do that well in 2002 and we haven't done that well in '04, so I think it's necessary that we go through some tough times now and look at what we're doing and where we're going as a political party."
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| Posted by:Fred |
| #30 Deacon Blues, so sorry for your loss. Please extend our gratitude to the family. OldSpook. God Bless you and that boy's family. I hope they know he's appreciated. Keep safe, and thank you! |
| Posted by: cingold 2004-11-03 11:56:10 PM |
| #29 Need you, Old Spook. Glad you're going back in. Remember: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke |
| Posted by: lex 2004-11-03 11:31:46 PM |
| #28 Old Spook, I don't know if you'll see this or not, but I'd like to offer my condolences, and wish you success at whatever you wind up doing. |
| Posted by: Phil Fraering 2004-11-03 11:21:13 PM |
| #27 Good night, sir. |
| Posted by: Seafarious 2004-11-03 10:40:35 PM |
| #26 positive response, phone message when i got home. have to go schedule polygraph exam and drug test, talk to investigator for my update gonna ask about whats allowed for posting betting not much odd to renew that 25 year lock on my brain that uncle sam has never thought i d be doin this then never thought 9/11 would happen helluva good bad day sleep now. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2004-11-03 10:35:16 PM |
| #25 I agree with Mrs. Davis that Clinton would not have been elected w/o Ross Perot taking 10+% of the votes. The Dems decline also coincides with the disappearance of Ross Perot |
| Posted by: ed 2004-11-03 5:11:10 PM |
| #24 Take great care, OS, if you do follow your inclination. You know you have a home here if it doesn't work out - and we'll be the winners, in that case. Sincere condolences to the families of the fallen, their sacrifice is the supreme gift of life and freedom for the rest of us. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-11-03 2:06:06 PM |
| #23 As everyone else has said so eloquently, OS, my heart, prayers and condolences go out to you and to that Marine and his family. If you should ship out, please do drop a line now and then, even if you can't comment. |
| Posted by: BA 2004-11-03 1:59:32 PM |
| #22 My Condolances to you and the Marine's family. Drop us a line now and then,'k'? |
| Posted by: raptor 2004-11-03 1:16:35 PM |
| #21 OldSpook - if you do go back in (and I hope you do if you can; we need people like you in this fight), here's hoping you can at least check in occasionally to let us know how you're doing. We all know you won't be able to say anything, but your worth to us at Rantburg is NOT based on any inside information you may have. You are a valued friend. Good luck and bless you. |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2004-11-03 1:08:38 PM |
| #20 OS--I'm sorry to hear of your plight and want to add my condolences. Take care. |
| Posted by: Dar 2004-11-03 12:53:39 PM |
| #19 OS, sorry to hear about what happened. Back on to the subject of this.....just checked out the MoveOn.org webpage, for the sheer hell of it. Nuthin' 'bout yesterday, or today for that matter. You'd think they'd have somebody whining and bitching, or something snarky from Michael Moore, but not a damn thing. If nothing else, I hope those clowns finally get kicked out of the Democrat party so reasonable people can come back........ |
| Posted by: Desert Blondie 2004-11-03 12:48:54 PM |
| #18 Oldspook, rough duty you have pulled today but one that is as important as all you have done before. My thoughts and prayers are again with you and the family and friends. Doc |
| Posted by: Doc8404 2004-11-03 12:25:57 PM |
| #17 OS, Be cool. I hope you do go back, You'd be an asset. Fred, well done. |
| Posted by: Lucky 2004-11-03 12:23:05 PM |
| #16 LH, Clinton's most successful idea was Ross Perot. In his absence, no victory for Clinton. Further the absence of ideas acceptable to the Democrat power structure and the attempt to adopt Hillarycare led to the GOP House victory only two years later. Clinton is only a "market correction" in the era of Republican rule that looks good to last for another couple of decades, even if another correction gives the Democrat the WH in '08. |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2004-11-03 12:16:47 PM |
| #15 My thoughts are with you too OS. |
| Posted by: Tony (UK) 2004-11-03 12:16:00 PM |
| #14 I absolutely loathe I wonder if the best thing for the Dems would be for the Jackson/Humphrey/Liberalhawk crowd to expel the moonbat Angry Left. If you got rid of the Pelosis and McKinneys and Soros/Moore/Deanie Babies and other extremists (e.g. Rev. Jackson, Kate Michelman), you'd be left with a party of reasonably normal people who lean left on economic issues. (In other words, my parents.) I'd not be inclined to vote with that party, but I could be persuaded; and I certainly wouldn't be worried for the future of the Republic if they took power. It would be a minority party without the Angry Left, but that could change over time; in the meantime, we'd at least have healthy competition in the marketplace of ideas. Only problem is, the extreme and batty hold most of the levers of power within the party, so the means of accomplishing this are not obvious. Still, 'Hawk, if you and your like-minded compatriots go for it, I for one shall wish you well. 'Spook, thank you for your service, and if you go over there again, good luck, good hunting, and get home safe. |
| Posted by: Mike 2004-11-03 12:09:31 PM |
| #13 During that time they managed to expend all their ideas no they expended their new deal ideas by 1974 or so. They were the brain dead party from 1974 to 1988, while the GOP, inspired by Thatcherism, was the party of ideas. In the late 1980s a new source of ideas emerged, thirdwayism, which also has strong intellectual roots in Great Britain - but Blair this time, not Thatcher. Clinton revived the Dems as a party of ideas, even if that did not guarantee victories (see 1994) Unfortunately Clintons personal failings weakened third way momentum - just in time for 19 Islamist mass murderers to turn American politics on its head. |
| Posted by: Liberalhawk 2004-11-03 12:03:13 PM |
| #12 "Simple: The Dem party needs to go back to party of Scoop Jackson, Zell Miller, Sam Nunn. And away from the party of Michael Moore, Ted Kennedy and Howard Dean. Become pro-defense at home, pro-democracy abroad , take a JFKennedy "A rising tide lifts all boats" policy toward taxes, and maintain thier help for the poor. And allow for dissenting opinions on abortion and religion. Of course, that would make them the current Republican party" as someone who worked my heart out for Scoop Jackson in ancient times, I can tell you that going to the economic approach of Scoop Jackson WOULD not make the Dems the same as the current GOP. Im surprised Carville or someone doesnt point out that Gore 'won', while Kerry lost, and blame Shrum, et al. The problem of Jackson-Humphrey dems (for so we called ourselves, although you right wingers may repudiate HHH) is that there really isnt the social base for that kind of party - there simply arent enough union members, and those there are arent as comfortable as they were in those days. Clintonism, which is more conservative on economics, and more liberal on cultural issues (though not as liberal as Kerryism), may be the best we can get and win with. Gore in 2000 tried to leaven it with a bit more social democracy than Clinton did. Some would say he won. An argument over how much social democracy should go in a sane dem party WOULD have been the debate between Lieberman and Gephardt - Joe going for more clinton style free market approach, and Gephardt for more social dem approach. Both were blown out the water by Iraq and tide of anger in the Dem party. Despite the loss, I dont think the dems will return to sanity in 2008 if the war is still on and seems to be going poorly. If so they will lurch FURTHER to the left, to Dean or someone like that. The only hope for either Gephardt OR Lieberman style politics is for a calmer international situation by 2007. |
| Posted by: Liberalhawk 2004-11-03 11:57:40 AM |
| #11 Your wisdom and knowledge, Old Spook, can only help speed us to victory. But remember, dear one, it was you that advised cold reason rather than hot anger. Bounce rubble if you must, but don't salt the earth, 'k? And we'll be content knowing that you look in on us from time to time, even if you don't actually post. In the meantime, let someone else drive you home this afternoon. We don't want to lose you needlessly. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2004-11-03 11:18:47 AM |
| #10 Best wishes, OS. My thoughts are with you and that brave young Marine today. |
| Posted by: Seafarious 2004-11-03 11:12:09 AM |
| #9 Shipman, I've been thinking about this since I got back from Afghanistan as a contractor. My country has needed me before, and I didnt hesitate. I don't think I will hesitate a this time either if they accept my offer of my services. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2004-11-03 11:08:49 AM |
| #8 Of course, that would make them the current Republican party. lol! The Democratic party has somehow morphed into the party of the rich white socialites and upper middle class, who deem themselves worthy to judge how the busy working class and "non-enlightened" should think and act. They throw shiny beads to the poor and uneducated minorities, beadsd that glitter, but are not gold. And sadly, the poor and uneducated scoop up the beads, giving away their votes in exchange for worthless bureaucratic programs that do nothing to improve their lot. I know these well-meaning people, they are nice and good hearted - but they have lived sheltered lives and haven't a clue what it's like to have to worry about paying the electric or tax bill. They pay their maids $10 per hour and feel that they are at one with them because they vote Democrat. They send their kids to private school - but feel noble when they oppose vouchers, wanting "others" to keep their kids in the public schools to keep them viable. The Democratic party of today is diseased. |
| Posted by: 2b 2004-11-03 11:06:51 AM |
| #7 You'll be in my thoughts/prayers OS, I would advise a weeks wait to consider reup..... just to be sure of your heart/mind. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2004-11-03 11:05:43 AM |
| #6 OldSpook, I don't know if you got my note yesterday but I know exactly how you feel. I had to do the same thing 3 weeks ago. One of mine was killed by a roadside bomb as he was waist-high in the gun tub on a supply truck. It hurts. |
| Posted by: Deacon Blues 2004-11-03 11:02:15 AM |
| #5 Headed out in a bit. Funeral at 11, be there at 10, leaving at 9. Be drunk as I can get after interment to try to numb off the pain I will see today - VFW and Legion are all going to be at the legion hall out here, and the taps will be open. On the "good" side, this moved me to make a few calls back east this morning. And I may be going back in again - but behind a desk for sure. It would neccessarily make me curtail my content here, but if I can help catch these bastards sooner, then thats what I'm going to do. So maybe some good will come of this, getting me personally motivated. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2004-11-03 10:59:21 AM |
| #4 I'm sure Hillary is happy with the outcome. She's got four years to plan for her run. |
| Posted by: Dar 2004-11-03 10:52:26 AM |
| #3 You got it OS. How you holding up? |
| Posted by: Shipman 2004-11-03 10:49:43 AM |
| #2 Simple: The Dem party needs to go back to party of Scoop Jackson, Zell Miller, Sam Nunn. And away from the party of Michael Moore, Ted Kennedy and Howard Dean. Become pro-defense at home, pro-democracy abroad , take a JFKennedy "A rising tide lifts all boats" policy toward taxes, and maintain thier help for the poor. And allow for dissenting opinions on abortion and religion. Of course, that would make them the current Republican party. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2004-11-03 10:41:54 AM |
| #1 Hey, whackjob... do ya think you may be part of the problem? |
| Posted by: tu3031 2004-11-03 10:32:13 AM |