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| Europe |
| Germany's Pseudo Culture War |
| 2004-11-24 |
| A debate on the integration of Muslims is raging in Germany. But the middle ground is missing from the discussion. It's time to stop throwing verbal darts and take a realistic look at the country's Turkish minority. Germans are good at this sort of thing. Make a controversial statement, and then sit back and watch as the newspapers, television stations, radio, intelligentsia and politicians whirl themselves into semi-hysterical fits, each attempting to one-up the other. And once the debate -- and the related violence -- in Holland about the (non) integration of its Muslim population got going with the murder of filmmaker Theo van Gogh three weeks ago, it was clear that Germany would fall all over itself to scrutinize its own 3.2 million-strong Muslim population. And it has. Computer keyboards across the country are smoking as editorialists pontificate on the pros and cons of multiculturalism. Over the weekend, 20,000 Muslim Germans -- mostly Turkish -- took to the streets of Cologne in an anti-terrorism demonstration. Politicians of all stripes this week are offering up platitudes, demands and warnings and a general consensus is slowly emerging that integration of Muslims in Germany just isn't working. But this current discussion isn't just a measured exchange of opinions among politicians and between Germany's Christians and Muslims. It is heated, bordering on unhelpful, and on the verge of becoming poisoned. On top of that, a word has been reintroduced into the debate that says volumes about how far along Germany is in integrating its mostly-Turkish Muslim population: "Leitkultur," a word that made headlines five years ago and means "dominant" or "guiding" culture. |
| Posted by:tipper |
| #5 You're wrong Lex, completely wrong. Violence towards women even in West spans from the poor to the rich. There is more violence in poor but it's not a shattering diference. Besides for muslims you just need to look to Saudis, the cultural sexism is not much diferent than racism and the weight of you're wallet doesnt saves you. |
| Posted by: anon2 2004-11-24 12:34:05 PM |
| #4 So your basic argument is that if Muslim men have jobs, they don't beat their wives? How is that different from saying that if Muslim men have jobs, they don't become terrorists? |
| Posted by: Jules 187 2004-11-24 12:24:36 PM |
| #3 But you solve the cultural problem when you solve the economic one. I'm willing to bet any sum that at least 90% of successful muslim professionals and businessmen in the US do not tolerate wife-beating. People who are building businesses and careers take good care of their families and also their communities. When you have a real stake in the larger society, a lot of cultural idiocy vanishes from your mind. |
| Posted by: lex 2004-11-24 12:19:31 PM |
| #2 It is both, lex. Remember the rantburg article a while back which showed 40% (I think that was the figure) of Turkish women accepted their husbands hitting them? That doesn't actually account for how many Turkish men think it's ok, but for the sake of argument, let's say it's about the same (40%).Some of those 40% would show up in Germany, wouldn't you agree? How do you think German women are going to react to physical abuse of husbands? How about putting up with Turkish employees who go insubordinate because they can't bear having a woman boss or won't work with Jewish fellow enployees? It's a mess. |
| Posted by: Jules 187 2004-11-24 12:15:28 PM |
| #1 It's ultimately not a problem of culture but of economics. Where the state stifles small business formation, it stifles the development of an ownership stake for relgious minority groups in the larger society and the development of business networks that reward productive activity. This in turn encourages the growth of an unproductive "resenter" population who have no attachment to the larger society. The Euros simply don't get it. |
| Posted by: lex 2004-11-24 11:45:49 AM |