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Europe
US may have been involved in rendition of Egyptian from Italy to Egypt
2005-02-06
ITALIAN police are investigating allegations that American intelligence agents kidnapped an Islamic militant in Milan and transported him to Egypt, where he was tortured. Osama Moustafa Nasr, an Egyptian dissident with alleged links to Al-Qaeda, disappeared in Milan on February 16, 2003, after eyewitnesses saw him being approached by three men as he walked to a mosque. A kidnap inquiry was opened in Italy after Nasr, also known as Abu Omar, was temporarily released from custody in Egypt last year and telephoned his wife and friends to tell them what had happened. He claimed he had been tortured so badly by secret police in Cairo that he had lost hearing in one ear. Italian officers who intercepted the call believe he has since been rearrested.

Although details of the inquiry remain confidential, the Italians are thought to be investigating claims that Nasr was taken by US intelligence agents to Aviano airbase and flown to Egypt in an American plane. If confirmed, the case would be one of the most controversial instances of the American policy of "rendition" — sending prisoners for imprisonment and questioning in other countries. Since September 11, 2001, dozens of prisoners have been transferred by America to countries such as Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia where interrogation techniques may be harsh. As The Sunday Times disclosed last November, US agents have repeatedly used civilian executive jets to transport prisoners to the Middle East, including a Gulfstream that was a frequent visitor to British airports. The plane was sold two days after the Sunday Times article appeared.

Imam Imad, the head of Viale Jenner mosque in Milan, an alleged centre of Islamic militancy, said Nasr had described how he tried to resist as he was stopped in the street and forced into a car before being taken to a military base. "He can't be sure if it was the Italians or Americans who took him," Imad said. "He was blindfolded. But they were western people. It was certainly not the Egyptians who captured him and took him to Cairo."

Armando Spataro, the deputy chief prosecutor of Milan, would not confirm whether there was any evidence of US involvement but said he was conducting a far-reaching inquiry. If Americans had played a part, "it would be a serious breach of Italian law". Spataro and other Italian prosecutors are particularly angry about Nasr's disappearance because they were preparing to prosecute him in Milan. They had bugged a conversation that appeared to suggest he was colluding in the establishment of a new terrorist network in Europe. The CIA and other US government departments refuse to discuss rendition publicly, except to insist that all transfers are conducted legally. Privately officials say they have guarantees that prisoners sent to other countries are well treated.

Michael Scheuer, a former senior CIA official who once played a leading role in the hunt for Osama Bin Laden, has confirmed that the agency has been involved in the rendition of close to 100 terror suspects. The policy of "capturing people and taking them to second or third countries" was developed after the CIA was told to dismantle terrorist cells across the world, said Scheuer, who resigned last November. Official documents released recently in Sweden revealed that the CIA provided a Gulfstream jet that took two Egyptian terrorist suspects from Sweden to Cairo in December 2001. Both claimed they were brutally tortured.
Posted by:Dan Darling

#15  Well, the fact that he was breathing to give an interview to a UK paper indicates he was not given the real treament. In the real deal, disappeared is the operative term. This is as much Islamic SOP (I was tortured!) as anything else. It's odd that everyone is buying into the pure speculation as to who did what. The paper even says that "the Italians are thought to be investigating claims" -- that's weaker than a 3-pass tea bag. Let's wait for something of substance, not just another Islamotwit being iconized by a UK paper.

Regards.
Posted by: .com   2005-02-06 9:14:22 PM  

#14  Nope. But neither do I think we are immune from descending farther down the moral scale than we might like.

There's rather a big difference between gathering information and kidnapping people to be tortured. Now, I'm not saying we were involved or even that this guy was in fact tortured. Nor am I saying we never should engage in dirty ops.

I AM saying that when we do it, it costs us more than might be obvious. And if you don't think that's true, go read some of the work on just war theory and the bombing of Hiroshima -- and I do mean the just war theory that is on our side.

I have.
Posted by: too true   2005-02-06 9:05:46 PM  

#13  "how would you feel if it were the Mukhabarat kidnapping Kurds who had moved here?"

Well, don't you think that they would do that if they could? So how do I feel about it? I think we should win.

And wouldn't a better analogy be that some experts from one country, help apprehend an international criminal wanted in a second country, found plotting in a third country, and assist in sending the criminal back to the second country, where they are wanted? Which is what is alleged to have happened (at worst). Are our intelligence services allowed to operate overseas or not?

Moreover, don't you think that you just equated morally the US intelligence services and the Iranian ones?
Posted by: Mark E.   2005-02-06 9:00:44 PM  

#12  Italian Police not the Italian Foreign ministry are ivestigating. Leftist prosecutors possibly trying to beat up on the US and the elected Government of Italy may be the actual story. It well could have been Italian state security personnel who handed him over to Egypt.
Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom   2005-02-06 5:00:30 PM  

#11  unless the allies, while publicly bitching, tacitly approve and encourage the "repatriation"?
Posted by: Frank G   2005-02-06 4:35:27 PM  

#10  Good point, Tom. I didn't read closely enough to note that it is only suspected that the CIA was involved. Nonetheless, unless it is an Eichman type case, where the egregiously guilty are being sheltered, I would hope we avoid kidnapping from allies.
Posted by: trailing wife   2005-02-06 4:29:46 PM  

#9  Pappy - Agreed. And my first impulse when I read a story like this is "Great! We got one!"

But then I think about the fact that we have maybe 10-20 years' worth of work to do to change things so that the Islamofascists and their successors die away. And I very much want us, when it is over, not to have lost some of the characteristics that make America what it is.

After WWII, people got on with their lives and most of them coped fine with e.g. nuking the Japanese. That's because the enemy was clearly identified and the connection between those cities and the willingness of Japanese forces to continue to fight was clear.

It's not so clear in this GWOT. So we will have to live with a lot of moral ambiguity. But we should be clear that that is what it is.
Posted by: too true   2005-02-06 4:24:09 PM  

#8  ...how would you feel if it were the Mukhabarat kidnapping Kurds who had moved here?

IMNSHO - You'd never hear about it. Because it would never 'make the news'.
Posted by: Pappy   2005-02-06 3:47:09 PM  

#7  Read the article. He only knows that the people who kidnapped him were "western people" -- possibly even Italian. All else is speculation. If the CIA is involved and doing its job properly, that's all that will ever be known.

Not that I will shed any tears for an Islamic militant Egyptian dissident being shipped "home".
Posted by: Tom   2005-02-06 2:02:33 PM  

#6  Mark E., how would you feel if it were the Mukhabarat kidnapping Kurds who had moved here?

Not saying the situations are totally parallel, but it does give me pause ....
Posted by: too true   2005-02-06 1:30:01 PM  

#5  While I don't disagree with repatriating the bad guyz to their countries of origin -- I don't see why they should be entitled to demand questioning by civilized torturers -- the issue is removing them from a third country against the express will of that third country. Especially an ally.
Posted by: trailing wife   2005-02-06 1:19:06 PM  

#4  Hang on....so now were not allowed to send em back to their sh*thole of origin and subjected to the local form of Justice? But to do otherwize, wouldn't we be disregarding the will of the locals? I mean, weren't all those people against the war saying that we shouldn't get involved in local business? So why should we project our human rights values on foreign countries in this circumstance?
Posted by: Mark E.   2005-02-06 11:05:37 AM  

#3  US may have been involved in rendition of Egyptian from Italy to Egypt

Stop ... stop, you're ripping my heart out! Boy howdy, is this ever going to keep me awake during the long winter nights.
Posted by: Zenster   2005-02-06 12:54:24 AM  

#2  ...the wild coho that roared up the streams following the long-awaited post-Christmas rains have been busily spawning, females digging nests and bright red males muscling each other out of the way, wrestling and biting to be the first one up to fertilize the eggs...


We're just helping them return to the spawning grounds. Rendition is very Green and Eco-Friendly. Hey, it's just the kind of people we are - no thanks necessary. You're welcome.
Posted by: .com   2005-02-06 12:37:26 AM  

#1  They were the lucky ones. The Egyptians only tenderized them. Next time these clowns won't be allowed back. Or maybe they were allowed back to let the others know what happens to people who pal around with al Q's.
Posted by: Alaska Paul   2005-02-06 12:25:39 AM  

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