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| Afghanistan/South Asia |
| US fury at wild-west militants who flee back to Pakistan |
| 2005-08-22 |
| It should have been a slam dunk. In Afghanistan's eastern border region, US troops say they photographed Taliban fighters firing a rocket-launcher at them from the safety of the Pakistani side - within sight of a Pakistani military observation post. But a frustrated US military official in Kabul explains: "We thought we had them. But when we showed the pictures in Islamabad they said, 'We saw nothing.' It's the same when we call on our direct communications lines to say we're chasing the Taliban over the border - they see us coming and they refuse to pick up the phone," he said, speaking anonymously. More than 700 Afghans and 45 Americans have died as border raids intensified since the northern winter. This is all the more puzzling because Pakistan says it has sent 74,000 troops to the border region to rein them in. Despite superficial civility and an aid cheque for $US100 million ($133 million) from Islamabad, a spokesman for Afghanistan's President, Hamid Karzai, recently told reporters: "All the weapons, ammunition, budgets, money transfer systems and safe havens for terrorists are located in Pakistan." Afghan officials suspect parts of Pakistan's military and intelligence services that are loyal to the Taliban have been training the fighters to use more sophisticated remote-controlled bombs. Pakistan denies Afghan claims that a system of extremist training camps operates in Pakistan. But Zulfiqar Ali, a Pakistani journalist, reported visiting such a camp. Men and boys as young as 13 took an 18-day "ideological orientation" and weapons training. Despite General Musharraf's promises, the gunmen and the bombers keep arriving in Afghanistan, and only a few hundred of the estimated 15,000 madrassas in Pakistan have complied with his demand that they register with the authorities. All that, he says, is about to change. NATO's civilian representative in Kabul and a former Turkish foreign minister, Hikmet Cetin, said last week: "The madrassas in Pakistan remain a critical issue. The border between these countries is 2400 kilometres and very mountainous. It's very difficult to patrol, and with 2 million Afghan refugees still in Pakistan it's easy for them to bring the Taliban ideology back here when they come home." The new US ambassador to Kabul, Ronald Neumann, said last week: "We are urging the Government of Pakistan to take all possible action to control extremism. We'll work with both countries to bring about better relations and institutions to fight terrorism. I think we are having some success." The US military official speaking on condition on anonymity spoke more bluntly. "We are looking for commitment - we've seen none in the last 12 months. All they do is arrest someone on the eve of an official US visit to Islamabad, and they release them once we've left town." Most US criticism of the ease with which the Taliban slip away into Pakistan has been confined to soldier level in the US forces. They are often forced to halt while in hot pursuit when they come to what they believe is the border. Known as the Durand Line, the 1893 British-drawn frontier is ill-defined and disputed. The US military officer seemed to share his men's frustration, exclaiming: "Anyway, where is the f---ing Durand Line?" |
| Posted by:Paul Moloney |
| #24 The terrorist entity of Pakistan employs only locals from Islamofascist' polluted Balochistan and the North West Frontier Provinces, as federal officers. The terrorist Muttahida-Majlis-e-Amal party controls - directly in NWFP and by power sharing in Balochistan - both provinces, and collects over 14% of US aid to Pakistan, under the constitutional distribution formula. Fred: YES or NO? AFFIRM or DENY? Do American taxpayers subsidize, indirectly, terror operations against US troops in Afghanistan? As the PEW polls consistently reveal 90% Pakistan opposition to the US, would it not reflect due diligence to expect that this hate will be translated into subversion of the nominal counter-terror operations? Does US policy towards Pakistan project weakness and irresolution, in the face of the crystalized genocidal jihadism that is manifesting in Central Asia, and arising throughout immigrant communities (ummahs) in the West? Can you point to benefits of said US-Pak relations, that outweigh the human costs of jihad indulgence? Do you affirm or deny the assertion that America's inclusivist policy - viz importuned (especially under Nancy Powell's ambassadorship) Islamofascist participation in nominal democratic processes - is in conformity with fundamental American values? Are you willing to write-off peoples - Pashto Afghanis, Pak Punjabis, Sunni Iraqis, Qom Iranians, Karbala Shiites, for example - en toto, thereby making same personna non grata, viz practical US projection of power? If Robert Spencer can question the exportability of democracy to the demographic-territorial pig pens of the world, and still place a book on the NYT best-seller list, then you can stop ducking the above questions. The only future is PAX AMERICANA. |
| Posted by: Vlad the Muslim Impaler 2005-08-22 22:38 |
| #23 If Pak was really serious, Perv would unleash a Corps from the Eastern border. Pak SSG could then force compliance (as they have done in Gilgit via their anti-shia pogroms). Well yeah, but that was different. |
| Posted by: Steve White 2005-08-22 19:05 |
| #22 Perhaps India could use a little help with a homemade SOSUS line. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2005-08-22 18:35 |
| #21 Those are paramilitary forces, saddled with hand-me- downs from the regular army. They have little training. The regular Pak army is quite well equipped and trained. If Pak was really serious, Perv would unleash a Corps from the Eastern border. Pak SSG could then force compliance (as they have done in Gilgit via their anti-shia pogroms). |
| Posted by: john 2005-08-22 15:53 |
| #20 This "running up to the border then stopping" crap must come to an end. Didn't we already learn this lesson once? Hey, don't disrespect the makers of the MG-42. After all, they were finding StuG-44 rifles and ammo headstamped 1944-45 in Iraq after the liberation. |
| Posted by: gromky 2005-08-22 15:26 |
| #19 "This is all the more puzzling because Pakistan says it has sent 74,000 troops to the border region to rein them in." Maybe to the idiot reporter but to those that live in the real world, this isn't "puzzling" at all. These are the same Paki troops that got their asses handed to them in Waziristan last year. So what's the big surprise here? Seen their helmets? They're still wearing W W I left-over Tommy helmets. And I swear, I've seen German-made MG-42 models mounted on Paki Army trucks! Time for the occasional T.O.T. artillery barrage ... 155-mm. should send the message loud and clear. |
| Posted by: The Angry Fliegerabwehrkanonen 2005-08-22 14:42 |
| #18 It is the Pakistani ISI's money and trainers that operate the terror camps. The Pak military has both the manpower and material to enforce its laws in these so called wild areas. They simply choose not to. Don't buy the Pak propaganda about the British being unable to pacify Waziristan etc. The military governors in these areas have total legal power. They can arrest anyone and imprison them for life. They can certainly crack down. When its interests are threatened, the Pakistan Army can be utterly ruthless. It has killed more of its own citizens that any armed force in the past 4 decades (millions in East Pakistan, Tens of thousands in Baluchistan, thousands in Gilgit). |
| Posted by: john 2005-08-22 12:43 |
| #17 When the sun goes down.... there are no Coalition Forces or PakMil troops to rule the night along the AfghanPak border area. Waziristan, NW Frontier or whatever you want to call that hole is no more enforceable than the US/Mexican border or Kennedy's, Clinton's or Kerry's anti-American mouths. Ain't no one running crap in that part of the work... just the Waziris and anyone they tolerate or welcome. If you ain't in their inner circle or are very useful to them then you are a dead man. |
| Posted by: Ulunter Ebbaimp1388 2005-08-22 12:29 |
| #16 This is the game that Pak plays with India, providing safe haven for terrorists right under border posts. Unlike India, the US doesn't have to tolerate this. It can "end" Pakistan. |
| Posted by: john 2005-08-22 12:26 |
| #15 If the border treaty has expired, then the Karzai goverment must formally enter into discussions with Musharref, on the grounds that there is documented evidence that Pakistan is unable to control the border as it was formerly located. And, until the new border is finalized, Afghanistan willingly and immediately takes on the burden of controlling the region, freeing Pakistan's Border Patrol for activities more suited to its abilities. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2005-08-22 11:55 |
| #14 "We thought we had them. But when we showed the pictures in Islamabad they said, 'We saw nothing.' It's the same when we call on our direct communications lines to say we're chasing the Taliban over the border - they see us coming and they refuse to pick up the phone," Go after 'em. Excuses from Pervy's minions no longer count. If they get in the way, drop 'em. |
| Posted by: Bomb-a-rama 2005-08-22 11:06 |
| #13 Another pressure point would be for the US and ISAF to invite Indian participation in the peacekeeping/enforcement operation in Afghanistan. I'm sure India would jump at the chance to place an armored division or two and a few squadrons of Su 30 Fighters on Pakistan's western border. Pakistan must be made to choose. |
| Posted by: john 2005-08-22 11:04 |
| #12 The Durand line should be considered invalid. The treaty between the British Raj and the Afghan king expired in 1993. Afghanistan refused to renew it so the border is in fact disputed. Given that the terrorists operate in a region claimed by Afghanistan, the US forces present in that country (legimately under both UN sanction and Afghan government request) should be free to operate there, ignoring the illegitimate Pak border posts. This business of fighting a war with hands tied behind your back cannot continue. Have the lessons of Vietnam been forgotten? Sacrificing the lives of US troops to avoid offending Pakistan is absurd. |
| Posted by: john 2005-08-22 10:58 |
| #11 Pakistan isn't a neutral. The "land of the pure" is on the other side. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2005-08-22 10:22 |
| #10 "warning to Pakland: next time the artillery will take out any living thing as hot pursuit. You've been warned" then do it |
| Posted by: Frank G 2005-08-22 10:21 |
| #9 Hague Convention of 1907 ..."a neutral country has the obligation not to allow its territory to be used by a belligerent. If the neutral country is unwilling or unable to prevent this, the other belligerent has the right to take appropriate counteraction." |
| Posted by: Ulotch Grath6836 2005-08-22 10:15 |
| #8 May want to vote against the proposal to sell F-16s to the PakiWakis |
| Posted by: Captain America 2005-08-22 10:13 |
| #7 let India nuke the paki's we probably the only reasdon they haven't yet anyway |
| Posted by: Thraing Hupoluper1864 2005-08-22 10:06 |
| #6 nuke pakistan then |
| Posted by: bk 2005-08-22 09:48 |
| #5 This is exactly the game played by the Mexican government when the Apaches would run across the border after raiding in the US. Finally, military columns were sent in to clear bases of operations. It was the Mexican government's turn the bitch. Just make sure you have overwhelming force to interdict the interference from Pak personnel. Oh, and start joint exercises in the INDIAN Ocean. |
| Posted by: Thaith Unaiper7383 2005-08-22 09:30 |
| #4 Time to chase after them and level bases and areas on the Pak side. If the Paks complain, tell them if they make one more statement other than, "Have a nice day," the f-16s they ordered will be routed to India. |
| Posted by: mmurray821 2005-08-22 09:07 |
| #3 A classic display of traditional Paki values. |
| Posted by: MunkarKat 2005-08-22 08:57 |
| #2 "Anyway, where is the f---ing Durand Line?" Calling Mortimer Durand; please bring you maps with you. |
| Posted by: GK 2005-08-22 08:41 |
| #1 Maybe it is time for a few "friendly fire incidents" that hit Paky obsevation posts. Gee we must of entered the wrong GPS co=ordinates. Sorry about that |
| Posted by: Cheaderhead 2005-08-22 08:36 |
