| Submit your comments on this article | |||
| Down Under | |||
| âIslamic upbringing no excuse for rapeâ | |||
| 2005-11-07 | |||
 SYDNEY: An Australian court dismissed appeals on Friday from three Pakistani brothers convicted of gang rape, with a judge describing a defence claim that their Muslim background contributed to the crime as insulting.
| |||
| Posted by:Fred |
| #22 My stay here may not be long. Promise? |
| Posted by: Pappy 2005-11-07 23:24 |
| #21 In the immortal words of Sgt Hulka: "lighten up, Francis" |
| Posted by: Frank G 2005-11-07 22:15 |
| #20 Now, this doesn't mean I don't enjoy your posts. Many times I do. And, it doesn't mean I don't think you have good things to offer. Many times I think you have offered very interesting and insightful contributions. Just some loose ends and curiousity . . . Posted by: cingold 2005-11-07 21:24 For fuc** sake, let the lad say whatever it is thats on this mind. He can explain himself if he likes, or he can tell you to fu** off and you can go have a good cry. My stay here may not be long. The arrogance, whinning, and thin skinned emotion of some here is an absolute load! Not impressed at all. This is American, let him say what he damn well likes and bugger off! |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2005-11-07 21:52 |
| #19 That's my agenda. Oh, no . . . Not an invitation to ask the question that's never answered . . . Well folks, let's try it, again. IMO, Zenster, the history of you past posting shows that you probably have ulterior motives -- because you voice strong support (to the point of utter overkill) for positions obviously near and dear to many who visit this blog -- and then (at times, here and there, but increasingly and thankfully less over time, thrown in as if afterthoughts) comes your mockery of Bush and the validity of his presidency, without any proof to back up the slander. Zenster, my concern is that just because a person sounds pro-military doesnât mean that same person might not have some ulterior motive to slam Bush, or to undermine the currently effective efforts being undertaken to reduce the worldwide threat of islamofascism. The lack of realism to the gung ho, âpro-militaryâ solutions you spout makes me question your sincerity. Please persuade me otherwise, if you think Iâm wrong. Also, I donât recall you ever answering a central question that you have been repeatedly asked: How do you square your âkill them all, let God sort them outâ rhetoric with your âBush is a crookâ rhetoric? Generally, when I ask you this question you just stop posting for awhile, but I really think inquiring minds would like to hear your answer to the question. Now, this doesn't mean I don't enjoy your posts. Many times I do. And, it doesn't mean I don't think you have good things to offer. Many times I think you have offered very interesting and insightful contributions. Just some loose ends and curiousity . . . |
| Posted by: cingold 2005-11-07 21:24 |
| #18 Â I still think our old buddy Zenster has his own personal agenda here on the Burg ... (Without wishing to veer too far off topic) And what would that "agenda" be? Seeking a viable solution or deterrent to Islamist terrorism? Check! Standing against erosion of America's separation of church and state? Check! Clearly identifying how the conservative tradition must advocate minimum governmental intrusion upon the private lives of individual citizens? Check! Seeking to decouple disinformation, regardless of partisan bias, from a search for the truth? Check! Gaining an increasingly deeper appreciation for Fred's protection of free thought and speech at Rantburg? Check, and check it twice! That's my agenda. We now return you to your regularly scheduled rant. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2005-11-07 18:50 |
| #17 Keep mc reigned in and you have some great food, song, and dance. Hey Ex-lib who doesn't enjoy a good Goat Kabob. And the Bedouin line dance is a real hoot if accompanied by the rich tones of a Santur. It's all that "kill me cause I'm a infidel" stuff I'm not too crazy about. |
| Posted by: DepotGuy 2005-11-07 17:58 |
| #16 I'm certainly no fan of the multicultural methodogies we know in this country today, but inclusion and assimilation have worked in the past with like minded people. The Huguenots for example, were French Protestants who generally followed the teachings of Calvin, and due to religious persecution, were forced to flee France to other countries in the 16th and 17th centuries. The Huguenots were welcomed in America and across the globe. They contributed much to society wherever the called home. Some in the media are now blaming France and it's alleged "apartheid" attitude to middle easterners for the current violence. A word of both curious origins and outcomes. Failed immigration policies and attempts at seperation have resulted in entire group migrations in other places. The stage may be set for yet another. I would live next to a Frenchman, no problem. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2005-11-07 16:17 |
| #15 There is some confusion comparing multi-culturalism with political imperatives. Keep mc reigned in and you have some great food, song, and dance. You can throw in some interesting folk/religious customs--okeedokee. This is the harmless "educational" side of mc. More than that and you have political competition and struggle for power/ascendency. |
| Posted by: ex-lib 2005-11-07 15:41 |
| #14 Multiculturism is a Myth. The benefits of of diversity do not trump the necessity to assimilate into an evolving society. Some cultures are incompatible with ALL other cultures. For instance that whole Caliphate thingy. |
| Posted by: DepotGuy 2005-11-07 14:09 |
| #13 I still think our old buddy Zenster has his own personal agenda here on the Burg . . . but I couldn't agree more about his point regarding Moslems getting a first rate American university eduation, and then taking what they learned back with them to use against us. All the Arabs/Middle Easterners I knew in college hated the US and the US government in particular, and had no qualms about stating that they wanted to eradicate it--even mentioning blowing up the WTC "to destroy the US economy." So . . . educate citizens only? Maybe. Of course they can become "citizens" and still go back, etc. or work from the inside. I think it was great that the Aussie judge pointed the finger at the Pakis and upheld women. It defined the Pakis and any culture that supports their actions as outside the bounds of human decency. Multiculturalism works well when all parties have a viewpoint favorable to it, and agree to appreciate and value diverse cultures living in harmony with them. But multiculturalism tends to be a viewpoint stemming from "orthodox" Christian values and philosophy, mixed with carryover ideas from the Enlightenment. So, while I like it, it's a culturally-bound ide. The problem is the other "cultures" don't share those values---they feel threatened by "multiculturalism" to a large degree because their view is that cultures must compete for ascendency. |
| Posted by: ex-lib 2005-11-07 13:40 |
| #12 That means we are NOT safe importing people from lands where women have no human rights and no respect. anon1, I'd argue that we are relatively safe in importing women from such cultures. The most we would have to watch for is infrequent promotion of genital mutilation and the extremely rare homicide bomber. Whereas a complete and total ban on men being allowed to immigrate from cultures with institutionalized misogyny makes a mountain of sense. A few rare instances of political asylum might be called for but no visas, no green cards, zilch. I'll be subjecting this idea to further consideration but at first blush it certainly appears quite reasonable. There needs to be some sort of vivid penalty for countries that continue the practice of institutionalized misogyny. We need to choke off any advancement of their male populations at our universities and corporations whereby they can extract vital knowledge and export it back to their abusive hellholes. I'm rather confident that the PC moral relativists will squawk quite a bit about such a sensible idea. They can all go f&%k themselves. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2005-11-07 13:07 |
| #11 G'day all: A melting pot is different to multiculturalism. A melting pot assumes the different cultures will assimilate. Merge. Lose something of their own to become part of the greater fabric. Multiculturalism means many cultures living distinctly yet harmoniously side-by-side. I stand by my claim that multiculturalism does not work. A melting pot works. That is many races but one culture. You can have cultural influences in a melting pot but not multiculturalism. You are looking at the failure of multiculturalism right now in France - or should I say Frankenstan |
| Posted by: Anon1 2005-11-07 12:40 |
| #10 ...their clientâs strict Muslim upbringing in Pakistan meant he had traditional views about women that made him a âcultural time bombâ in Australia and contributed to the rapes. Nice to know that rape is a big part of that "strict Muslim upbringing" and "traditional views". |
| Posted by: tu3031 2005-11-07 12:03 |
| #9 Admitting some cultures are incompatible is the first step to admitting multiculturalism does not work. Well said, anon1. |
| Posted by: DepotGuy 2005-11-07 11:51 |
| #8 Shoulda fired his lawyer and brought in the stormy petrel of the Lahore Courts. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2005-11-07 08:29 |
| #7 They want buggery? They'll get it in spades in prison. Throw away the keys! The rapists become the raped, and they will grow to like it. |
| Posted by: sea cruise 2005-11-07 04:51 |
| #6 Damn good, but I can't help but feel its the Muslim courts of the ME per se that should had made this decisions. Islam will only incur self-beneficial reformation and avoid Commie-style implosion and irrelevancy iff decisions like this one are routine in Muslim courts. PARIS RIOTS > French = Euro Socialism can't give the rioters any more state-protected/subsidized jobs no matter how long the riots or how many cars get burned. The French "modele" can't even afford regular workdays, regular paydays, paid vacations, or even burials anymore - why do they think the Euros have to share nuke aircraft carriers!? |
| Posted by: JosephMendiola 2005-11-07 04:27 |
| #5 Everytime the tolerant societies of the West accept immigrants from the intolerant societies we risk bleeding the intolerant socleties of the tolerant folk required to change those societies meaning they will stay intolerant that much longer for our attempts at being do gooders. Everytime the tolerant societies allow the intolarant in from intolarant societies we show that we are kind of stupid. |
| Posted by: rjschwarz 2005-11-07 01:38 |
| #4 Admitting some cultures are incompatible is the first step to admitting multiculturalism does not work. Multiculturalism works just fine. When done properly it produces a stronger race. Done properly, it's a "melting pot"; done improperly - it's inbreeding. |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-11-07 01:23 |
| #3 Don't you see the tragedy is the lawyer was right. THe judge doesn't want to admit there ARE cultural differences and they ARE ticking time bombs because of what that means. That means we are NOT safe importing people from lands where women have no human rights and no respect. Admitting some cultures are incompatible is the first step to admitting multiculturalism does not work. The truth is in Pakistan many women are not given any respect or even basic human rights. Regularly they are murdered and raped by members of their own family for being suspected of shaming the family honour. See if the Judge admitted the lawyer was right, we'd have a tool to start campaigning Politicians to rethink the policy of multiculturalism and start putting limits on it. Instead the magistrate like all wanker magistrates in this country has buried his head in the sand. I am glad the rapists are locked up and he did not lessen their sentences. But the sentencing remarks should instead have been along the lines of: It is true, he was a ticking time bomb but that is no excuse in this country to commit the crime of rape. If he wanted to live by the cultural rules of Pakistan he should have moved to Pakistan. There is no place in Australia for the free expression of a culture that treats women as second class citizens. |
| Posted by: anon1 2005-11-07 01:07 |
| #2 MAK (25) is serving 16 years for the rapes, while his siblings MMK (19) and MSK were both jailed for 22 years after being convicted last year. Gotta wonder if it's actually a genetic thing? |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2005-11-07 01:01 |
| #1 Looks like these "Cultural Time Bombs" are going to be disarmed... |
| Posted by: imoyaro 2005-11-07 00:43 |