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| Europe |
| Europe Fears Violence Similar to France's |
| 2005-11-07 |
| Europeans expressed fears Monday of copycat outbreaks of violence among their immigrant communities as rioting and arson attacks spread in France. Cars were set ablaze outside Brussels' main train station and in a working class district of Berlin, although officials in Belgium and Germany sought to play down the risk of the kind of violence that France has experienced since Oct. 27. Still, officials acknowledged that poor integration and poverty posed threats. "There are terrible living conditions and unhappiness, (even) where everybody is Italian," said Romano Prodi, the center-left's candidate to oppose Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi next spring, in a newspaper interview. Prodi said poverty, unemployment and urban decay could spark violence. Thomas Steg, a spokesman for outgoing German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, told reporters that "the situation is not comparable." "I think we should stay away from drawing premature analogies and making prophecies as to whether similar developments would be possible here," Steg said. Wolfgang Schaeuble, a conservative tapped as Chancellor-designate Angela Merkel's interior minister, echoed that belief in an interview with the Bild daily newspaper. "The conditions in France are different from the ones we have," Schaeuble said. "We don't have these gigantic high-rise projects that they have on the edges of French cities." Schaeuble cautioned, however, that "we have to improve integration, particularly of young people. That means above all that they must master the German language." An immigration law that took effect in January aims to integrate newcomers to Germany, making German-language and civics courses obligatory for them. Others, however, saw the rioting in low-income Paris suburbs as evidence that European immigration policies don't work. Heinz-Christian Strache, leader of Austria's rightist, xenophobic Freedom Party, called on Austrian leaders to stop immigration and implement integration measures that would prevent "French conditions" from emerging in his country. The Swedish tabloid Expressen said in an editorial that the trouble in Paris is of an "all-European relevance." "We have difficulties accepting that people come to us from far away," the tabloid said. "It is like the humble staff at a luxury hotel would suddenly take up quarters with their richest habitues. They should know their places, a dark undercurrent in the collective European consciousness says." Turkish Premier Recep Tayyip Erdogan said France had ignored Ankara's calls for more tolerance, arguing that France's ban on head scarves in public schools triggered the riots. "We've always told our friends in Europe that they should not lead to a clash of civilizations in order to prevent such incidents," daily Hurriyet quoted Erdogan as saying during a visit Sunday to Germany. "We should work for an alliance between civilizations. There is a great duty which falls on the Christian and Muslim world. Europe should have evaluated this," Erdogan said. "We said it. But France did not take it into account. It did not listen to us." Abdelkarim Carrasco, a leader of Spain's estimated 1 million-member Muslim community, said he does not see his country at risk of suffering the same kind of violence, because the proportion of poor North African Muslims is much smaller. But he said the French experience posed a key test for Europe in general. "Either Europe develops and supports the idea of a mixed culture, or Europe has no future," he said. "Europe has to learn from what the United States has done. It is a country that has taken in people from all over the world." |
| Posted by:tipper |
| #12 "That means above all that they must master the German language." No, I would say allegiance to the host nation, documented in no matter what language, would be the place to start. A few classes about respecting German society, a vow of non-violence before the court, a few tests to see whether you "get" democracy-that's where you start. Then German language and a policy of no free rides. When you do this, you enter a new life. Enjoy it. |
| Posted by: jules 2 2005-11-08 00:00 |
| #11 They may be incited by a shadowy Imam in some sleazy mosque im ile-de-whatsitsname, but many (not all) of the trash and burn types themselves are just out for a "hot" time in the old town tonite, and scaring ther poop out of the people not looking for the same... |
| Posted by: BigEd 2005-11-07 17:42 |
| #10 Big ED Watch the following and reconsider http://architectureandmorality.blogspot.com/2005/11/shattered-glass-dealing-with-north.html |
| Posted by: Bush Mckenzie 2005-11-07 17:33 |
| #9 I have a feeling that these rioting bastards are no more traditional Jihadinutz than any of us here. As the Fr Interior Minister says, they are just "thugs". They aren't putting themselves up to meet 72 sweeties in angel-land. So, France needs to reinstitute the death penalty, and any rioter that kills someone, meets Mr Guillotine, and his severed head is mounted on the top of a lamppost for all to see. |
| Posted by: BigEd 2005-11-07 17:28 |
| #8 France has many statists policies that restrict business, that could be liberalized Why does the word 'liberalized' seem so wrong when talking about a socialist system needing to be moved to capitalism? Here I was under the false impression that socialism was liberalizing laissez-faire capitalism? And just as confusing is that laissez-faire should be french. |
| Posted by: Whash Unick6318 2005-11-07 16:29 |
| #7 1. poverty - France almost certainly needs more capitalism - but that doesnt mean they will have to undo the welfare state - France has many statists policies that restrict business, that could be liberalized, while leaving core social welfare programs intact. IE they could move in the direction of Britain, which still has a pretty full welfare state, at least by American standards, but a much more free market economy - and lower unemployment than France. 2. There does seem to be real racism in France, that keeps folks in the Cites from getting jobs that are available - they really are decades behind us, despite their "liberal" rhetoric. 3. It would be hard to argue against limiting further immigration while this gets sorted out. 4. Yes TW, some folks are capable of seeing what the US has accomplished. 5. The Austrian Freedom party are a bunch of racist, antisemitic jerks. 6. Order must be restored - not just in the short term, but a general crackdown on crime. In the US this was done, while police brutality was limited using civilian review boards - im not sure that would work in the centralized French state. |
| Posted by: liberalhawk 2005-11-07 16:11 |
| #6 Austria's rightist, xenophobic freedom Party may be renamed to the We Tried To Warn You Jerks Party. |
| Posted by: wxjames 2005-11-07 12:55 |
| #5 The key to stopping the violence is to harness the awesome power of socialism. 1. Hand out "car burning" permits that allow perhaps 10 cars per person per night. 2. Slowly reduce-down the number of car/night or vouchers to a manageable number. 3. Later sell the vouchers to raise more revenue for the state once a means of enforcing violations are in place. Problem solved. |
| Posted by: Master of Obvious 2005-11-07 12:52 |
| #4 Bush lied! Disaffected youth of unspecified ethnticity and religion...err..umm..never mind. |
| Posted by: Dreadnought 2005-11-07 12:44 |
| #3 They just don't get it. More welfare! More socialism! More, more MORE!!!! |
| Posted by: Bomb-a-rama 2005-11-07 12:38 |
| #2 "Either Europe develops and supports the idea of a mixed culture, or Europe has no future," he said. "Europe has to learn from what the United States has done. It is a country that has taken in people from all over the world." !!!!!!!!!!!!!! *Speechless in shock!* |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2005-11-07 12:37 |
| #1 ... officials acknowledged that poor integration and poverty posed threats. They just don't get it. |
| Posted by: gromgoru 2005-11-07 12:26 |