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| Science & Technology |
| U.S. Troops Want a Better Bullet |
| 2005-12-19 |
| December 19, 2005: The U.S. Marine Corps, responding to reports from their troops, are investigating whether they should replace the current 66 grain bullet, used in the 5.56mm round fired by the M-16 and M-4 rifle, with a heavier bullet. Since last Summer, the marines have been making the heavier, 77 grain bullet (normally only issued to Force Recon and commando troops) available to commanders, to use in place of the rounds with the 66 grain bullet. However, only six percent of the 10.6 million 5,56mm rounds of ammo the marines have in Iraq and Afghanistan, are the heavier 77 grain version. The debate over the effectiveness of the NATO standard 66 grain bullet (and all 5.56mm) ammo has been going on for decades, and has only intensified since 2002 (when it was used a lot in Afghanistan). The marines and the army are working together on the problem, and will present their findings early next year. Many in the U.S. Army are in favor of using a larger caliber bullet (7.62mm, as used in sniper rifles like the M-14), or a 6.8mm round. The problem with the 5.56mm round was that it was not designed to take down man sized targets (or animal equivalents like white tailed deer, or black bears), and is less effective in blasting through walls and vehicles during urban fighting. When first introduced, it was intended for use by draftees, who were often in need of automatic fire capability (because so few were marksmen). This meant troops had to be able to carry more ammo, thus the utility of the 5.56mm round. The 5.56mm bullet could wound, or kill with a head or torso shot. But a determined enemy was often not stopped by 5.56mm fire. Today, all the infantry are volunteers, much better trained to hit targets with single shots, and increasingly demanding a bigger bullet for doing that. |
| Posted by:Steve |
| #15 Thanks tw. He and the guys certainly appreciate all the support they get from folks. They DO understand that the MSM and lefty types are absolutely wrong in their "armchair assumptions" about what liberty is all about. |
| Posted by: rlynes 2005-12-19 17:13 |
| #14 rlynes, please tell your son thank you from us. And to you also, for providing us with a man of his calibre (*ducks* sorry!). |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2005-12-19 16:40 |
| #13 Besoeker, you're on a roll today. That's funny! Oh, and can I have one of those (in blue-green, to match my eyes) for the days when the trailing daughters are feeling obstreperous? |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2005-12-19 16:35 |
| #12 Our son is over in western Al-Anbar area up along the border. He has a 240-Golf (says the 5.56 M-16/M-4 & SAW don't create enough knockdown or damage in house-to-house and pursuit operations). Says also would like to trade in his 9mm sidearm for a .40 or a M1911 Colt (doesn't like having to use more than one round). Never asked about the .77 grain, probably he would never see it anyway as it seems that they're "rationing" this ammo. |
| Posted by: rlynes 2005-12-19 16:20 |
| #11 I'd say a 7.62 mix of heavy penetration and fragmentation. When I was in Vietnam, I ended up in a situation where I was issued a weapon - an old M-2 carbine firing a .30 cal round. The 30 or so of us with this weapon were hitting targets and stopping them at 100+ yards, while the M-16 troops were ineffective over 100 yards. My M-2 went through 600-700 rounds without jamming, while the M-16 guys were jamming at about 120 rounds every time. That was 1971 - this is 2005, and the problem STILL persists. |
| Posted by: Old Patriot 2005-12-19 16:18 |
| #10 I predict 50 posts. |
| Posted by: Heartless Spemble1219 2005-12-19 16:01 |
| #9 A Zionist mind-ray attachment would be nice too. Under development through a joint NSA and IDF partnership authorized under the Patriot Act. Attaches to both the Browning M2 50 cal and the Karl Gustav with wireless mike chin strap pickup. Comes in basic radar resistant iodized black for special operators, and a variety of camo schemes to include USMC patterns. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2005-12-19 15:19 |
| #8 A Zionist mind-ray attachment would be nice too. |
| Posted by: Seafarious 2005-12-19 15:13 |
| #7 Don't forget the bacon submunition, tu3031. :} |
| Posted by: Trub 2005-12-19 15:08 |
| #6 ...and is less effective in blasting through walls and vehicles during urban fighting. That is why you have a 50cal. Use the right weapon for the target. You don't need a bigger bullet, you need more support weapons further down the chain. Either get that weapon down there or find something to knock down walls and doors that's lighter than a 50 to haul around - maybe a 90mm Karl Gustav. |
| Posted by: Spuque Elminelet9733 2005-12-19 15:07 |
| #5 Man is this a golden oldie! The current rounds are 5.56 NATO and 7.62 NATO also known as the .223 and .308. There is also the .50 caliber machine gun round that is ALSO used in sniper rifles (when you care enough to send the very best). This argument has been going on since the '50s and the change to the small round was primarily based on 1) weight (the grunt could carry more ammo) and 2) range (battles didn't require the long range kill power of the .30-06 that was standard in WWII. Note to the design factor that this was for use by a draftee army without much marksmanship (also known as spray and pray) skill. Today, the troops would be served well with a semi-auto with a heavier bullet since they are now in the business of one shot, one kill. The rounds that I've heard good things about are the 7.62 and 6.8 or .243. |
| Posted by: AlanC 2005-12-19 14:22 |
| #4 They already have it, it's a .308 Now all they need are guns to shoot them. |
| Posted by: Snaving Jomoting3348 2005-12-19 14:18 |
| #3 how about a lighter bullet that also contains jiggle juice so it disables the enemy and makes him (or I guess her) an instant intel asset when captured and an intel problem for the enemy if the enemy takes them from the battlefield |
| Posted by: mhw 2005-12-19 13:49 |
| #2 7.62Xsomething realistic would be much better. |
| Posted by: Mahou Sensei Negi-bozu 2005-12-19 12:42 |
| #1 A white phosphorus, depleted uranium, armor piercing, high explosive, napalm hollow point that turns into cluster bombs when you fire it...if possible. |
| Posted by: tu3031 2005-12-19 12:31 |