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| Caribbean-Latin America |
| "I'm not a Mexican-American. I'm an American." |
| 2006-04-10 |
| Contrary to scenes of hundreds of thousands of united Latinos marching across the country in support of immigration reform, a sizable number of the ethnic group opposes the marches and strongly objects to illegal immigration. But their voices have largely been muffled by the massive protests, which will continue Monday as tens of thousands of demonstrators are expected to take to the streets of Tucson, Phoenix and other cities nationwide. They are voicing their support of a Senate bill that would give an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants living in the country a chance for U.S. citizenship. "That's the objective of the marches -- to give the impression that all Latinos are for allowing the illegals to become citizens," said Phoenix resident Lionel De La Rosa. "Well, I'm not." The 71-year-old Texas native and Vietnam veteran said he favors punitive measures more in line with the immigration bill passed by the U.S. House in December that would have made it a felony to be in the United States illegally. "I'm for that 100 percent," he said. "As far as my Latino friends are concerned, they all agree on this." A 2005 survey by the Pew Hispanic Center found that Latinos in general have favorable attitudes toward immigrants and immigration. But when it comes to illegal immigration, significant numbers have negative views of illegal immigrants. The survey found those feelings are strongest among middle-class and middle-age U.S.-born Latinos. And though 68 percent of Latinos said they believe illegal immigrants help the economy by providing low-cost labor, nearly a quarter felt illegal immigrants hurt the economy by driving down wages. U.S.-born Latinos looked even less favorably toward illegal immigrants than foreign-born Latinos. More than a third of U.S.-born Latinos said illegal immigrants hurt the economy, compared with just 15 percent of foreign-born Latinos. Latinos also are divided over whether to allow illegal immigrants to earn citizenship. the survey found. Though 88 percent of foreign-born Latinos favored allowing illegal immigrants to earn citizenship, a smaller number of U.S.-born Latinos, 78 percent, said illegal immigrants should be allowed to do so. Though views such as De La Rosa's are common among Latinos, they are rarely reflected among Latino leaders, said Steven Camarota, research director at the Center for Immigration Studies, a Washington, D.C. think tank that favors greater restrictions on immigration. "It's easy to tap into the views of the intellectual class, but harder to tap into the views of the common folks," he said. And because so much of the debate over illegal immigration comes off as anti-Hispanic, Latinos who favor greater restrictions on immigration are often reluctant to speak out. "That's extremely off-putting," Camarota said. "Whatever their views, they keep it to themselves." Many Latinos fear being ostracized for their negative views of illegal immigrants, said Phoenix resident Frank Barrios, 64. "There are a lot of Hispanics that are upset about the illegal just the same way as the Anglo population," said Barrios, a third-generation Mexican-American who traces his family's roots in Arizona to the 1870s. "That group is larger than many people would believe." South Phoenix resident Elsie Orta said she has no plans to participate in Monday's march in Phoenix. "Other Hispanics have told me to go to the demonstrations," said Orta, 55, who said her mother is from New Mexico and her father's family traces its roots to Spain. "I think it's hurting them. They're making a fool of themselves." The Phoenix native believes Arizona is under siege by illegal immigrants who speak Spanish, use public services and take jobs away from citizens. Illegal immigrants, she said, should be deported. "They want us to cater to them all the time," she said. "They're coming over here, they're taking our jobs. And now, everything has to be in English and Spanish? I don't think so. They need to go back." This division is pronounced. Remember that 44% of "Hispanics" voted for Bush in 2004, and the popular attitude of Mexican-Americans is often very conservative, though their self-appointed leaders are uniformly leftist-liberal. |
| Posted by:Anonymoose |
| #11 Hi .com! You racist POS! |
| Posted by: Angeaper Cravick6952 2006-04-10 23:47 |
| #10 LOL. Oh yeah, sure thing. Without the legislative will you've got nothing. No law changes. No felony offense. Nothing. SOS. Just holding your pud and spouting off won't change a thing folks, you've got to do it at the polls every November. Cull the DC herd of the weaklings - or pound sand. |
| Posted by: Snolugum Glese3729 2006-04-10 23:30 |
| #9 All we have to do is raise the price of beans to to $5.00 a can and they will leave by the droves.... |
| Posted by: crazyhorse 2006-04-10 22:20 |
| #8 SF8557 has it |
| Posted by: Frank G 2006-04-10 21:20 |
| #7 The reason you make it a felony is because 1) They're undocumented or carrying false documents. That allows law enforcement to hold them with a charge beyond the 72 hour limit to clear their background. 72 hours is not enough to have all jurisdictions to report in on outstand felony warrants for robbery, rape, murder, etc. 2) It allows multiple counts against coyotes for each act of abetting and aiding in the commission of the federal felony. 3) It allows the prosecution of local and state officials as conspirators in the commission of a federal felony by providing 'safe haven' to those committing a felony. I could care less about individually prosecuting each and every illegal. Points 2 and 3 will do a lot to cut the support system. |
| Posted by: Slinetle Flains8557 2006-04-10 21:08 |
| #6 I'd like to weigh in... Regards real people having jobs and little time for demonstrating, good point, Moose. At the end of the day, what energy is left (most of us would agree) should be invested in being a good spouse and parent. Citizenship is a distant second for most of us, I think. Only the kiddies (which seem to be a very large percentage of those agitating) and the professional Tranzis seem to have the time for marching around. If the citizens who emigrated legally from Mexico vote for rule of law, then they have done the least they can do. If they were to do more, however, it would deflate the demagoguery very quickly. The greatest positive impact potential comes from them acting. Others will be branded bigots and racists - as we see happening now. Indeed, the fence works well enough to help stem the tide. I support building it where it would have the greatest impact - and a little more on both ends, lol. The US Senate is our real problem and I don't see how we will make sufficient effective changes in its composition in a timely manner. It would take a huge mobilization of those real Americans who recognize the rule of law is the very foundation of our system, the very reason for our success. And they are probably not motivated to do more unless there's a personal impact... a very American trait. The Minutemen are the exception to the standard selfishness which rules supreme in most issues. We owe them a huge debt of gratitude for getting this issue front and center and putting their asses on the line to back up the rhetoric. BUT they are largely white and many retired, so their impact is less than it should be. I think that what impact they have had is due to their restraint and careful observance of the law. The ACLU thought they would be able to destroy them and the movement to control our borders, but have failed miserably, lol. God bless the Minutemen leadership - they got it right on the first pass. In the short-term, I believe we're screwed. We have to find a legislative formula which can swing over the support of the cowards to something that, at least, begins to slow the flow. Once that is accomplished, then we push for more, I guess. We have to proceed in stages, and each must give the cowards political cover to move forward to the next. That's how it seems to me, at least. |
| Posted by: Threart Spoling4885 2006-04-10 21:06 |
| #5 Ulinter Angeagum6865: Successful, prosperous people don't agitate against those who are not successful or prosperous. Mostly, they work for a living. They're too busy. The people out on the streets are out solely because they are scared that they're about to be declared "felons". Yes, that should scare them. It would scare me. The bottom line to ALL of this crapola is that there is ONE thing, and ONE thing only that will solve MOST of the problem. And that is to build a wall. Any other proposals, that is, ANY AND ALL other proposals, are efforts to NOT build the wall. Nobody is serious about declaring illegals felons. The argument is hogwash, as is deporting them *or* giving them amnesty. ALL bogus, to avoid the one big thing that will matter. So look to Washington, D.C. If you understand that EVERY effort on the subject except to build the wall is a deception, suddenly it becomes very clear. There are a handful of Congressmen who understand what is going on, and want to build a wall. But there are a LOT of Congressmen who DON'T want that wall built, and will throw up vast amounts of bulldada, trying to sound "helpful". But the latter are like people standing in a bucket brigade, but instead of passing buckets of water, they are passing buckets of gasoline, while pretending to be "helpful". |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2006-04-10 20:18 |
| #4 I await the counter-demonstrations by those who are of Mexican birth but are now genuine Americans who believe in the rule of law. Should they materialize, it will gut this Tranzi wet dream in a heartbeat and leave the Democraps flopping about on the beach. If they do not, then they have learned nothing being here and do not deserve to enjoy the wondrous freedom of America. One might even say they differ little from the phantom moderate Muslims, in fact -- playing both sides of the issue until the outcome becomes clear. |
| Posted by: Ulinter Angeagum6865 2006-04-10 19:38 |
| #3 My bad: Prop 187 passed by 59% but was overturned in court. Same M.O. as always with the LLL: They win in court what they can't at the polls. |
| Posted by: Cyber Sarge 2006-04-10 18:52 |
| #2 A lot of the illegals will self-deport if you DON'T let them get legal status while here and DO expedite granting legal status to applicants at ports of entry. Quit rewarding those who cut ahead of the line and start rewarding those who do things right. Make it worth their while to go back to Mexico and get in line where they belong. |
| Posted by: Glenmore 2006-04-10 18:39 |
| #1 This story jives with the turnout a few years back in California. There was a ballot imitative to restrict public services of illegal aliens, the "conventional wisdom" claimed that there would be a Latino uprising at the polls, but the measure passed by 75%. Hard to deport 11 million but if you get started I bet half of them will leave before you have to send them back forcibly. |
| Posted by: Cyber Sarge 2006-04-10 18:24 |