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| Down Under |
| Jensen tells of Islam-Christian split |
| 2006-04-14 |
| A SYDNEY church leader has used a Good Friday address to tell his congregation that Christianity and Islam cannot both lead to God. Compare with the Catholic view "NOSTRA AETATE" 3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting. Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom. Anglican Dean of Sydney Phillip Jensen told a service at St Andrew's Cathedral that Islam denies some of the Christian beliefs about Jesus. Islam views Jesus as a prophet but does not believe he was the son of God who died on Good Friday to save humanity from its sins and was resurrected on Easter Sunday. "Now that Islam has become more common in our society, you need to know the difference between Christianity and Islam," he said. "For the Koran, and therefore Islam, denies that Christ dies." But Dean Jensen said that the two religions cannot both be right. "Either both are wrong or one is right and the other is wrong," hw said. "But both of them cannot be right." Bishop of South Sydney Robert Forsyth said the comments were in no way inflammatory towards Muslims, but instead were an attack on the naive who believed all religion was the same. "What he was attacking was not Muslims," Archbishop Forsyth said. "The thing he was attacking was the unwise who people think that all religions are part of the same thing – so he was attacking the seculars." |
| Posted by:tipper |
#8 I would say that Mohammand and Islam are the opposite of christianity:
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| Posted by: CrazyFool 2006-04-14 23:25 |
| #7 Here's my take: Mohammed had to deny Jesus died, not out of a sense of piety, but because Jesus is TOO BIG OF AN ACT TO FOLLOW. Mohammed tells the faithful what to do in order to be saved. Not coincidentally, what he told them to do profited himself quite a bit. Jesus, on the other hand, DID HIMSELF what it took to save the faithful. Forget about being ABLE to save the faithful by dying: Mohammed would NEVER have done ANYTHING for his faithful, while Jesus lived for the day he would die for you and me. No competition, no comparison. |
| Posted by: Ptah 2006-04-14 23:10 |
| #6 Islam is and will be the primary vehicle of the Antichrist and his system that will overwhelm much of the world just prior to Christ's return. Although not a popular position today, it is a position that has been held by many notable Christian leaders throughout history begining from the first great Islamic Jihad/conquest. Not only is the position quite defendable biblically, it is quite likely. |
| Posted by: Joel Richardson 2006-04-14 21:09 |
| #5 5089 - I don't have time to read the link. But if I were to predict, I think we'll see a battle. I don't think the Islamists will win. For several reasons, but primarily because they don't have the better way. Good ideas usually win in the end. Does that mean that we won't have a bloody conflict. No. I think we will. If history is any guide, it will become very ugly before it becomes better. I'm just hoping, that after centuries of making fun of people on street corners holding signs that say, "the end is near", that we aren't really entering end times. Certainly we have the capability today to make Revelations come true - more so than ever before in the recorded history of makind. But I'm an optimist and I don't think so. We in this generation have just lived in peace for so long that we don't really believe a world war will happen to us. Unfortunately, a look at history shows us that the odds are not on our favor and the idea that we are immune to a global conflict is just a happy face fantasy that has little basis in reality. |
| Posted by: 2b 2006-04-14 13:30 |
| #4 that's interesting. Thanks. Good points. But don't lose sight of my point. One thing both Christianity and Islam have in common is that they deny the essential message of the other side My point is that in Christianity, even if you don't believe in the Trinity - then there is no repercussion. No one will cut your head off. Christians just believe it is your loss. They feel bad you don't get to share in the power that a belief in Christ and following his teachings will bring to you. Forgive me for going into sensitive ground here, and if I'm wrong, don't get mad - it's just how I see it, but it seems to me that for Jews, it's less about a religion than it is a shared heritage. Basically, one is born a Jew and remains one through their shared heritage, as well as DNA. If a Jew converts to Christianity - they still remain Jewish. But if a Christian converts to Judiasm, they are no longer a Christian, and not truly a Jew. And though Moslem's, Christians, Americans, Germans, etc. all share common heritage - to be a Moslem or a Christian or most other religions, is not determined by birth, but by a shared belief. But my point is that Jews and Christians and Moslems all believe in the same God. Supposedly, we all believe in the God of Abraham. But there are differing opinions on who'se entitled to walk on the alabaster stones in the afterlife. The Moslem religion demands no difference between church and state and punishes the non-believer in this life - not the next. It's not about the power you can obtain by believing - but that they will kill you if you do not. As it stands today, Islam is not compatible with a tolerant society. I'm not saying that Moslems themselves aren't compatible - I'm saying their belief in Sharia is not compatible with a tolerant society. It's worked fine until recently when they were over there and we were over here. Now our world's collide. |
| Posted by: 2b 2006-04-14 13:04 |
| #3 Snuns, exactly! Never forget that for islam, Jesus IS NOT the son of God, he's just *a* prophet to whom lip service is given, but who has been made obselete by The Prophet(tm), and he DIDN'T DIE on the cross, he was remplaced by a stunt double, basically, and went on to perform the haj. Not only islam denies the Trinity (which for them is The Father, the Holy Spirit and... Mary; someone got mixed up, this comes from early chrisitan heresies IIUC), but its basic tenet is that it is the SAME religion as judaism and christianity (whose followers are muslim, in fact, just as everyone else, since islam is the religion "by default" of humanity, every baby is born muslim), BUT the jewish and the christians maliciously altered their scriptures and do not follow the voice of allan anymore... so The Prophet(tm) came to correct that, and is the ultimate word on everything... when the koran(tm) lifts the Bible and misquotes it, it is actually the koran(tm) which is right, the christian version has been forged. In short, the basis of the muslim faith is that it is a superior religion, and that its two parents are FALSE. Oecumenism and interfaith dialog is trivial from this point of view. Btw, the muslim Jesus is far from the christian Jesus; not only does he worship The Prophet(tm), but at the end of times, he will come back to *serve* the mahdi(tm), and his first action will be to break all crosses, IE to destroy christianism (he will also kill all pigs...). For an interesting take on this, see this link Will Islam Be Our Future — A Study of Biblical and Islamic Eschatology. |
| Posted by: anonymous5089 2006-04-14 12:39 |
| #2 One thing both Christianity and Islam have in common is that they deny the essential message of the other side. Traditional Christianity asserts the Trinity, the Passion, Death and Resurrection of Christ, and Islam asserts the Prophet's message has supplanted both Judaism and Christianity. Might as well say it plainly. |
| Posted by: Snuns Thromp1484 2006-04-14 12:24 |
| #1 The difference between Christianity and Moslems is that Christianity is a religion based on the sunny side of life; faith, hope, repentance, forgiveness, charity, and tolerance. Christians share with you in the hopes that you too can share in the goodness. Islam is faith based on submission not to just to God, but to Islam itself. It does not separate church and state, so they must submit to members of the state and their clerics, who are men. The Moslem must submit to men to get to God, but the Christian does not have to. Islam demands death to those who do not participate. It is not a religion of tolerance, but of intolerance. It does not seek to understand others but demands you follow the will of the men who have established themselves as the Allah's representatives. In the form that is being put forth by Islamists today, it is not compatible with a tolerant society. I think the most Moslem people are great people and if they could get rid of the radical clerics could easily move into the 21st century and be great neighbors. But I think they are a century away from ridding themselves of the destructive 7th Century beliefs and in the mean time - we are going to have one big and bloody clash to sort it all out. |
| Posted by: 2b 2006-04-14 12:10 |