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Israel-Palestine-Jordan
State Department seeks to delay supply of M-26 artillery rockets to Israel
2006-08-11
Israel has asked the Bush administration to speed delivery of short-range antipersonnel rockets armed with cluster munitions, which it could use to strike Hezbollah missile sites in Lebanon, two American officials said Thursday.

The request for M-26 artillery rockets, which are fired in barrages and carry hundreds of grenade-like bomblets that scatter and explode over a broad area, is likely to be approved shortly, along with other arms, a senior official said.

But some State Department officials have sought to delay the approval because of concerns over the likelihood of civilian casualties, and the diplomatic repercussions. The rockets, while they would be very effective against hidden missile launchers, officials say, are fired by the dozen and could be expected to cause civilian casualties if used against targets in populated areas.
Ohfergawdsakes. The solution is for the civilians to get out of the way. It's not like they can't see what's happening around them. I rather suspect (I'm cynical) that the civilians that are still within spitting distance of a Grad launcher a) are there because they're Hezbie workers/supporters or b) are human shields. Harming them is regrettable but can't be allowed to stop taking out the launchers.
Israel is asking for the rockets now because it has been unable to suppress Hezbollah's Katyusha rocket attacks in the month-old conflict by using bombs dropped from aircraft and other types of artillery, the officials said. The Katyusha rockets have killed dozens of civilians in Israel.

The United States had approved the sale of M-26's to Israel some time ago, but the weapons had not yet been delivered when the crisis in Lebanon erupted. If the shipment is approved, Israel may be told that it must be especially careful about firing the rockets into populated areas, the senior official said.
"Careful with that, Ari! You almost took out a baby duck!"
"Sorry, Sarge, but I was aiming away from the puppies!"
Israel has long told American officials that it wanted M-26 rockets for use against conventional armies in case Israel was invaded, one of the American officials said. But after being pressed in recent days on what they intended to use the weapons for, Israeli officials disclosed that they planned to use them against rocket sites in Lebanon. It was this prospect that raised the intense concerns over civilian casualties.

During much of the 1980's, the United States maintained a moratorium on selling cluster munitions to Israel, following disclosures that Paleostinian human shields civilians in Lebanon had been killed with the weapons during the 1982 Israeli invasion. But the moratorium was lifted late in the Reagan administration, and since then, the United States has sold Israel some types of cluster munitions, the senior official said.

Officials would discuss the issue only on the condition of anonymity, as the debate over what to do is not resolved and is freighted with implications for the difficult diplomacy that is under way.

State Department officials "are discussing whether or not there needs to be a block on this sale because of the past history and because of the current circumstances," said the senior official, adding that it was likely that Israel will get the rockets, but will be told to be "be careful."
"Hokay, lissen up: the pointy end goes towards the Hezbies. Now be careful!"
"Yes ma'm, Madam Secretary!"
David Siegel, a spokesman for the Israeli Embassy in Washington, declined to comment on Israel's request. He said, though, that "as a rule, we obviously don't fire into populated areas, with the exception of the use of precision-guided munitions against terrorist targets." In such cases, Israel has dropped leaflets warning of impending attacks to avoid civilian casualties, he said.

In the case of cluster munitions, including the Multiple Launch Rocket System, which fires the M-26, the Israeli military only fires into open terrain where rocket launchers or other military targets are found, to avoid killing civilians, an Israeli official said.

While Bush administration officials have criticized Israeli strikes that have caused civilian casualties, they have also backed the offensive against Hezbollah by rushing arms shipments to the region. Last month the administration approved a shipment of precision-guided munitions, which one senior official said this week included at least 25 of the 5,000-pound "bunker-buster" bombs. Israel has recently asked for another shipment of precision-guided munitions, which is likely to be approved, the senior official said.

Last month, the advocacy group Human Rights Watch said its researchers had uncovered evidence that Israel had fired cluster munitions on July 19 at the Lebanese village of Bilda, which the group said had killed one civilian and wounded at least 12 others, including 7 children. The group said it had interviewed survivors of the attack, who described incoming artillery shells dispensing hundreds of cluster submunitions on the village. Human Rights Watch also released photographs, taken recently by its researchers in northern Israel, of what it said were American-supplied artillery shells that had markings showing they carried cluster munitions.
We can always depend on HRW decry something that makes either America or Israel look bad. This is a two-fer for them.
Mr. Siegel, the Israeli Embassy spokesman, denied that cluster munitions had been used on the village.

The United States Army also employs the M-26 rocket and the Multiple Launch Rocket System in combat, and the Pentagon has sold the weapon to numerous other allies, in addition to Israel. The system is especially effective at attacking enemy artillery sites, military experts say, because the rockets can be quickly targeted against a defined geographic area. Each rocket contains 644 submunitions that kill enemy soldiers operating artillery in the area.

But Human Rights Watch and other groups have campaigned for the elimination of cluster munitions, noting that even if civilians are not present when the weapons is used, some submunitions that do not detonate on impact can later injure or kill civilians.
War is a bitch, guys, but you don't fight it with both arms tied behind you.
The M-26 "is a particularly deadly weapon," Bonnie Docherty, a researcher with Human Rights Watch, who helped write a study of the United States' use of the weapons in the 2003 Iraq invasion. "They were used widely by U.S. forces in Iraq and caused hundreds of civilian casualties."
Unfortunate, but we can't let an opposition artillery unit shell our people. That's just not going to happen. These weapons were created for a reason. We don 't want, and the Israelis don't want, to kill civilians. Note that Hezbollah has no similar qualms.
After the Reagan administration determined in 1982 that the cluster munitions had been used by Israel against civilian areas, the delivery of the artillery shells containing the munitions to Israel was suspended. Israel was found to have violated a 1976 agreement with the United States in which it had agreed only to use cluster munitions against Arab armies and against clearly defined military targets. The moratorium on selling Israel cluster weapons was later lifted by the Reagan administration.

This week, State Department officials were studying records of what happened in 1982 as part of their internal deliberations into whether to grant approval for the sale to go forward.
Posted by:Anonymoose

#20  D: And todayÂ’s reason is because the US is reluctant to give (not sell) Israel cluster munitions in a conflict that involves guerilla warfare in civilian population centers.

I think you've also got to realize that a guerrilla force that uses civilians as human shields is a legitimate military target for cluster bombs, especially after the civilians have been told ahead of time to clear out of the regions in which fighting is about to happen. This is pretty standard issue - the lives of military men are worth no less than the lives of civilians.
Posted by: Zhang Fei   2006-08-11 21:12  

#19  D: And todayÂ’s reason is because the US is reluctant to give (not sell) Israel cluster munitions in a conflict that involves guerilla warfare in civilian population centers.

The US is selling these munitions to the Israelis. They have a fixed amount of military aid alloted to them, and they can buy whatever they want with it. Western Europe never "bought" the munitions or the 400,000 lives we expended rescuing them from a choice between Nazi or Soviet domination, but that's what that war cost us. Note that we've never had to come directly to Israel's defense, unlike in Western Europe, where we lost another 100,000 men in WWI.
Posted by: Zhang Fei   2006-08-11 20:58  

#18  STATE can delay anything they want. As long as the missiles get there by the time Netanyahu is in charge. They are unlikely to be used until he is in charge anyway. Olmert is history. My take is that the US did not want to get out in front Israel in protecting Israel.

I await part 2 of this fighting, when Israel has a real leader again.
Posted by: Javinter Whaving3257   2006-08-11 19:33  

#17  Bolton and Condi serve at the pleasure of the President. They follow orders. Many of the rest of the DoS apparatchiks do not.

And todayÂ’s reason is because the US is reluctant to give (not sell) Israel cluster munitions in a conflict that involves guerilla warfare in civilian population centers. Damn, this is a tough crowd.

"civilian" is a relative term. Hisbullah is not uniformed and could be called civilian. I doubt that many of the "civilians" south of the Litani are innocent. Human shield tactics will end up killing us all.

Posted by: SR-71   2006-08-11 16:22  

#16  This crowd believes in fighting to win, DepotGuy, especially when fighting Iran's puppets.
Posted by: Darrell   2006-08-11 16:06  

#15  One week Rice and Bolton are the next best thing to sliced bread and happy-hour and the next week they are subversive elements that deserve nothing less then a tortuous death. And todayÂ’s reason is because the US is reluctant to give (not sell) Israel cluster munitions in a conflict that involves guerilla warfare in civilian population centers. Damn, this is a tough crowd.
Posted by: DepotGuy   2006-08-11 16:00  

#14  Too soft SoP. Skin them and nail their hide above the entrance to the DoS as a warning to others.
Posted by: DarthVader   2006-08-11 15:03  

#13  The State Department need a cleaning from top to bottom. We all know this. We are in a war we need to arm our sometimes allies with the weapons they need to win. The State Department is not helping us fight the war in a fashion that assures victory for US or our sometimes allies.

Find the cabal responsible for this and fire, demote or harass them until they quit.
Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom   2006-08-11 14:56  

#12  Israel is fighting our enemy currently. I believe that the DoS is working for our enemies: Tranzi Progs, Socialists, the Phrench, The Soodies, the BDS Dhimmiecrats. . .
Posted by: SR-71   2006-08-11 14:02  

#11  Ok can we just like throw State Dept. into the ocean and start over.
Posted by: djohn66   2006-08-11 13:44  

#10  Â“I believe the DoS is working for the other side.”

SR-71, IÂ’m confusedÂ…whoÂ’s the other side?
Posted by: DepotGuy   2006-08-11 12:37  

#9  Phuech the piano music. If Richard Armitage were Secretary of State you'd find him down at Tobyhanna Army Depot with his sleeves rolled up and a good sweat on, assisting the load masters palletize M-26 crates.
Posted by: Besoeker   2006-08-11 12:31  

#8  "some State Department officials"

And therein lies the problem.
Posted by: mcsegeeek1   2006-08-11 12:24  

#7  NS: I doubt the military benefit outweighs the PR cost.

The military benefit is that less Israelis get killed. The PR cost is that Arabs, who claim that Israelis are using chemical weapons against the Lebanese, will now add cluster bombs to their list. I really don't see much downside - from the Israeli viewpoint.
Posted by: Zhang Fei   2006-08-11 12:19  

#6  This story sounds fishy. Israel already has the MLRS and cluster bomb rockets were it's main armament. It makes little sense that the US would have provided only the unitary warhead since it would have been less useful than artillery w/o the GPS guidance kit (new).
Posted by: ed   2006-08-11 12:11  

#5  The military benefit is obvious. Suppress the AT fire and kill the gunners. Israel (and the USA) need to decide whether or not we want to win and destroy Hisbullah - or not. If IDF uses the the weapons, the world will hate us. If IDF doesn't use the weapons, the world will hate us. The down-side is? Looks like zero PR cost to me.

I believe the DoS is working for the other side. I am disappointed that Condi did not clean house. As far as I'm concerned, burn Langley and Foggy Bottom to the ground and start over.
Posted by: SR-71   2006-08-11 12:07  

#4  I'd have to agree with State based on the limited information here. State itseld is like a slow clock. it can be correct.

A 1 in 1,440 probability.

I hope Bush ignores them and sends those M-26's out today.
Posted by: Evil Elvis   2006-08-11 12:06  

#3  I doubt the military benefit outweighs the PR cost. I'd have to agree with State based on the limited information here. State itseld is like a slow clock. it can be correct.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble   2006-08-11 11:55  

#2  State Department and CIA: cesspools of Clinton-appointed and hired worms.
Posted by: Lancasters Over Dresden   2006-08-11 11:23  

#1  Once again, the State Department maintains a spotless record of fucking shit up for our allies and emboldening our enemies. Thanks guys!
Posted by: DarthVader   2006-08-11 11:11  

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