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| Europe |
| Germany in radical shake-up of military |
| 2006-10-25 |
| Posted by:anonymous5089 |
| #15 Sorry, Zenster. I don't know what I was thinking. ;-) |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2006-10-25 23:29 |
| #14 Define "useful". |
| Posted by: William Jefferson Clinton 2006-10-25 18:58 |
| #13 Except, Mark Z, that if the German lads get promoted to Pfc by drinking beer and watching dirty films, they aren't getting training in useful skills. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2006-10-25 18:08 |
| #12 Anf from the 138000 in the French LAnd Army you still have to discount some thousands protecting French |
| Posted by: JFM 2006-10-25 17:40 |
| #11 ex-JAG: I'm thinking if the Germans boys are off the street but in military service while the muzzie turk boys are roaming the streets... well then...advantage to the German boys. An advantage they may need sooner rather then later. |
| Posted by: Mark Z 2006-10-25 12:47 |
| #10 Also, one benefit of universal conscription is that it delays, for several years, the entry of the young men into the job market In late 90s, that was one reason unsuccessfully invoked to refuse the professionalization of the french army, IE it would increase youth unemployment. |
| Posted by: anonymous5089 2006-10-25 12:40 |
| #9 My German ex rose to the rank of Obergefreiter (PFC) drinking beer and watching p0rn (though they decided not to hammer in the bung, LOL!)! As he described it to me, a major reason Germany has universal service is to better integrate the military into civil society, by making sure everyone has served or knows someone who has. After living through the American experience -- forced to argue with assholes who don't know a corporal from a colonel -- this concept made me drool (though I still totally oppose any draft). But in order for it to work, soldiers have to actually serve somewhere, doing something honorable and dangerous. So as it stands, yes, compulsory service in Germany is a big nanny state sham. It keeps German boys off the streets, while the Turkish ones roam them. Great. |
| Posted by: exJAG 2006-10-25 12:35 |
| #8 I agree, exJAG. Also, one benefit of universal conscription is that it delays, for several years, the entry of the young men into the job market, and presumably at a total cost lower than unemployment welfare. But it would be helpful for the future of German society if all those lads were trained in actual soldiering during their sojourn. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2006-10-25 12:19 |
| #7 You're right, rj, but keep dreaming. European governments have to squeeze blood from every turnip to stay afloat. The French gov't is selling state mansions and Paris City Hall's wine collection. With an unemployment rate still in the double digits, the German gov't desperately relies on US employment of several hundred thousand local nationals -- plus the business of almost as many soldiers & family members assigned here. Until they figure out that their economy is based on the Big Lie, they'll never "help" us leave. I'm sure the German military could meet recruiting goals if it went all-volunteer. I would worry, though, that the beer-hall-putsch types would be the first in line. |
| Posted by: exJAG 2006-10-25 12:12 |
| #6 First step, Germany should do is shift to an all-volunteer army. For one it provides better troops in general, and two there will be less outcry when stubs a toe on some UN mission because the toe-stubber volunteered to serve. Second step, Germany should politely take over US responsibilities in Germany and assist the US in leaving. Third, if Germany wants to keep their draft, and its now non-military, they should create a Peace Corps of sorts to provide non-military foreign involvement. |
| Posted by: rjschwarz 2006-10-25 11:18 |
| #5 Argh, in 2006 french army (infantry, excluding the paramilitary gendarmerie) is only 138 000! Yikes! |
| Posted by: anonymous5089 2006-10-25 11:13 |
| #4 Article says the Bundeswehr of 250,000 must expand to support deployement of 14,000. That's one hell of a tooth-to-tail ratio. French army is 250 000 or so, or at least was before professionalization, I think I should check that, it has about 17 000 troops deployed outside national territory, and this is the utmost it can do (already quite overstretched, one reason why the french special forces will be redeployed from aghanistan to lebanon). |
| Posted by: anonymous5089 2006-10-25 11:08 |
| #3 "Hopefully, the pendulum won't swing too far in the coming years". SpecOp35: The pendulum you refer to is awfully far left, at least in Germany's case I think, less so wrt Japan. It needs to swing well past center right asap. I can easily invision the need for an international and DOMESTIC deployment of the Bundeswehr in the not too distant future. |
| Posted by: Mark Z 2006-10-25 11:04 |
| #2 Article says the Bundeswehr of 250,000 must expand to support deployement of 14,000. That's one hell of a tooth-to-tail ratio. |
| Posted by: Spot 2006-10-25 10:39 |
| #1 Both Japan and Germany are making the effort to now stand up after WW2. This may be necessary for the coming battles. We can't do it alone. Hopefully, the pendulum won't swing too far in the coming years. |
| Posted by: SpecOp35 2006-10-25 10:36 |