You have commented 339 times on Rantburg.

Your Name
Your e-mail (optional)
Website (optional)
My Original Nic        Pic-a-Nic        Sorry. Comments have been closed on this article.
Bold Italic Underline Strike Bullet Blockquote Small Big Link Squish Foto Photo
Home Front: Politix
Who Won The First Major Hillary vs. Obama Fight?
2007-02-22
Jim Geraghty, National Review

Ladies and gentlemen, the first major Clinton vs. Obama fight of the campaign has begun.

And for those of us with no dog in this fightÂ… it's awesome.

The short version:

New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd talked to Hollywood mogul David Geffen, a former Bill Clinton backer who’s now backing Obama. Geffen ripped Hillary. He called her “incredibly polarizing”, referred to the Bush and Clinton “royal families,” speculated that Bill Clinton was still sleeping around and thus represented a scandal waiting to erupt; called the Clinton machine (their network of supporters and operatives) “very unpleasant and unattractive and effective;” called the former President “a reckless guy”, mocked his pardon of Marc Rich, declared the Clintons “unwilling to stand for things that they genuinely believe in” and that they lie “with such ease, it’s troubling.” Finally, he asked if anyone was more ambitious than Hillary.

The Hillary campaign read this in Dowd’s column and shot back, “A day after Barack Obama goes out and eschews the politics of slash-and-burn, his campaign embraces the politics of trash.” The Obama campaign responded, “We aren’t going to get in the middle of a disagreement between the Clintons and someone who was once one of their biggest supporters. It is ironic that the Clintons had no problem with David Geffen when was raising them $18 million and sleeping at their invitation in the Lincoln Bedroom.”
Ouch!

Later in Iowa, Obama himself added, “It’s not clear to me why I would be apologizing for someone else’s remarks… My sense is that Mr. Geffen may have differences with the Clintons, but that doesn't really have anything to do with our campaign.”

At the candidate forum in Nevada yesterday, Hillary didn’t directly say whether she believed Obama was obligated to disavow Geffen's comments, but instead, she lamented . . . come on, you can guess the standard-issue Clinton response to these situations . . . you got it! The Politics of Personal Destruction™! Yes, Geffen’s criticisms and observations amount to an attempt to personally destroy her. . . .

From where I sit – admittedly, pretty far both ideologically and geographically from Beverly Hills, Nevada, Iowa, or even Washington – Geffen pointed out the elephant in the room, the fears and irritations that a lot of Democrats feel about Hillary but don’t like to talk about. Team Hillary reacted with its characteristic whine, completely fudging the difference between a substantive disagreement (her vote on Iraq, the Marc Rich pardon) and speculation about scandals and personal defects (the idea that Bill is sleeping around). I find this line of argument completely unpersuasive, but apparently it works, because the Clintons keep using it. Obama reacted by pointing out the obvious and staying out of the fray. But so far, it’s being scored as a loss and a gaffe for Obama.

UPDATE: So I thought a bit more about Richardson and other Democrats in yesterday's candidate forum responding as if Obama had done something wrong, and I began to wonder if the Democratic field is tired of hearing about Obama the Messiah, and how lame they are in comparison to the Illinois Senator Who Walks On Water and is eager to see him taken down a peg.
Also, a Smart Republican Guy explained why I'm scoring this fight wrong.

Smart Republican Guy: I thought it was one more step in the inevitable process of taking the shine off the guy [Obama]. He's in a tough spot. If I were advising him, I'd tell him not to engage the other Dems at all. To set himself by, among other things, being apart. (Smart, for example, to blow off the debate yesterday.) But that's tricky. Because sometimes you have to engage. And everytime he does, I think it diminishes him. Most voters will see what I saw on the today show this morning — Howard Wolfson attacking Obama. And they'll believe it because they're used to it. They're used to politicians attacking each other. So this is believable. They expect it.

Jim: I mean, I guess at issue here is that Joe Voter is so disengaged, pays so little attention to the details of the story, that they'll walk away from the conversation convinced that Obama did something wrong?

Smart Republican Guy: Essentially, yes.

I don't want SRG's interpretation to be right, but I fear he may be.
Posted by:Mike

#10  LH,

I have to ask, are you a Shacker by any chance?
Posted by: bombay   2007-02-22 18:39  

#9  This was round 2. Round 1 was when the Clintonistas planted all those "Is Obama really black" stories.

Obama won. He's now going to be mentioned in the same sentence as presumptive nominee St. Hillary for several days. This will lift him above the other dwarfs like Edwards and Kucinich and clinch him the VP nomination.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble   2007-02-22 17:34  

#8  One of those good news days.
Posted by: JohnQC   2007-02-22 17:28  

#7  You think the park in question was in DC? Man you are so pwned, ghostie!
Posted by: liberalhawk   2007-02-22 16:11  

#6  Stay out of D.C. parks late at night, kid. Bad things happen there...
Posted by: The Ghost of Vince Foster   2007-02-22 15:48  

#5  "So are they all - all honorable men!"

I think Marc Antony was being snarky, guys.
Posted by: mojo   2007-02-22 15:34  

#4  I'll tell you who won the first round...

The Republicans.

And they are just sittin' back eating popcorn.
Posted by: DarthVader   2007-02-22 14:42  

#3  Obama will try what worked for Deval Patrick up here. "Together, we can!", "Yes, we can!", "Let's reach for that!"
Feel good slogans, will never let anybody pin him down, will propose nothing, will let the adoring media fly top cover for him.
It may not work on a national scale, but it sure did work with the sheeple up here.
Posted by: tu3031   2007-02-22 13:59  

#2  "For Brutus was an honourable man."
-- Julius Caeser

Whew! You got the tone spot on with that one, liberalhawk. ;-)
Posted by: trailing wife   2007-02-22 13:44  

#1  " He called her “incredibly polarizing”, "

Duh. All she needs to win in November is 50% plus one. And shes polarizing cause some rightwingers that Dem primary voters dont listen to dont like her. Obama is farther left on issues. Is the guy who wants to pull US troops out of IRaq immediately, damn the consequences going to be less polarizing cause he talks nice? (and dont lets get started on how polarizing GOP candidates are)

"referred to the Bush and Clinton “royal families,”

Duh. They still elected Bush W, twice.

"speculated that Bill Clinton was still sleeping around and thus represented a scandal waiting to erupt;"

he aint running for president. But thanks for keeping it clean and fresh.

" called the Clinton machine (their network of supporters and operatives) “very unpleasant and unattractive and effective;”"

They play tough. Cause theyve been up against Repubs who play tough. Its unpleasant if youre a player, like Geffen is and get involved in it. I dont think the voters care.

" called the former President “a reckless guy”, "

Now THATS news ;)

"mocked his pardon of Marc Rich,"

Again Mr. Clinton aint on the ballot. Hey Geffen, arent your pals in Moveon angry against Leiberman for attacking fellow Dems?

" declared the Clintons “unwilling to stand for things that they genuinely believe in”"

I think theyve been remarkably consistent about their policy positions. Sometimes you have to face reality and compromise though. If St Obama aint gonna do that, how is he gonna avoid being polarizing?

"and that they lie “with such ease, it’s troubling.”"

St Obama OTOH says hes unconnected with Geffens comments. Lie, or truth?

" Finally, he asked if anyone was more ambitious than Hillary"

OMG! someone running for president is ambitious. As opposed to somebody who 3 years ago was an Illinois legislator (and spare me the Lincoln comparisons) and now is running for Prez. But Geffen has said Hilary is ambitious, and Geffen is an HONOURABLE man :)
Posted by: liberalhawk   2007-02-22 13:25  

00:00