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| Europe | ||
| Winston Churchill 1937: Jews 'invited persecution' | ||
| 2007-03-11 | ||
The two words have been taken out of their context - highlighted below. Otherwise, I wonder if he would say the same thing about Muslims today, without the "sober, industrious, law-abiding" of course.
"It would be easy to ascribe it to the wickedness of the persecutors, but that does not fit all the facts," the article read. "It exists even in lands, like Great Britain and the United States, where Jew and Gentile are equal in the eyes of the law and where large numbers of Jews have found not only asylum, but opportunity. These facts must be faced in any analysis of anti-Semitism. They should be pondered especially by the Jews themselves. For it may be that, unwittingly, they are inviting persecution - that they have been partly responsible for the antagonism from which they suffer." The article adds: "The central fact which dominates the relations of Jew and non-Jew is that the Jew is 'different'. "He looks different. He thinks differently. He has a different tradition and background. He refuses to be absorbed." Elsewhere, Churchill praised Jews as "sober, industrious, law-abiding" and urged Britons to stand up for the race against persecution.
The article was discovered by Cambridge University historian Richard Toye in the university's archive of Churchill's papers. At the time, Churchill's secretary advised him it would be "inadvisable" to publish it and it never saw the light of day. | ||
| Posted by:phil_b |
| #22 I have to admit there's more than a whiff of anti-Semitism on English novels of the pre-WWII period. I would say that Gaudy Night is the best mystery novel of all time, except that I'm embarrassed by the undercurren. |
| Posted by: Eric Jablow 2007-03-11 20:58 |
| #21 The reason why the Amish emigrated from Europe is that the Europeans exterminated them there. |
| Posted by: Anguper Hupomosing9418 2007-03-11 18:18 |
| #20 trailing wife: "banker" was an invective, which is why I said "financial institutions". Actual Jewish involvement then was probably on a par with Jewish financial businesses in the US today, but the public perception in both cases is that "the Jews control the banks." Remember the post 9-11 nonsense about Jews working in the WTC? Same basic idea. For years in rural America, the invective was "New York Jew Bankers" and "New York Jew Lawyers", but said with the same feeling that Germans of the time believed. For the most part, fortunately, Americans have grown out of that.(*) (*) except in the democrat party. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2007-03-11 18:13 |
| #19 trailing wife: "banker" was an invective, which is why I said "financial institutions". Actual Jewish involvement then was probably on a par with Jewish financial businesses in the US today, but the public perception in both cases is that "the Jews control the banks." Remember the post 9-11 nonsense about Jews working in the WTC? Same basic idea. For years in rural America, the invective was "New York Jew Bankers" and "New York Jew Lawyers", but said with the same feeling that Germans of the time believed. For the most part, fortunately, Americans have grown out of that.(*) (*) except in the democrat party. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2007-03-11 18:12 |
| #18 That's OK TW, I'm Still a Redneck, just a smart one. |
| Posted by: Redneck Jim 2007-03-11 17:00 |
| #17 As for Jews moving out of the ghettos, for centuries that wasn't permitted, and later many could not afford to. The Jews of Germany were the most highly assimilated in the world until the Nazis rooted them out. If my mother's family is any example, they were integrated socially and professionally, intermarried and converted (about half of my mother's family considered themselves either Catholic or Protestant until the Nazis informed them of their error) and were more involved in the generality of community activities than Jewish ones. It did not make any difference once the antisemites decided to separate them out. They were hunted down just as quickly as were the ghetto-trapped Jews of Eastern Europe... many of whom had been integrated German Jews not long before. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2007-03-11 16:00 |
| #16 In the past two generations about 50% of American Jews have married outside the religion. Historically, ie the past 1800 years or so, and worldwide, the proportion has been about 25% marrying out/converting, except when times were very bad or very good, when it went up to 50%. Anonymoose, never have most of the bankers been Jews. Rothschild and a few others, yes, but then half of the Rotschilds are Christians of one flavour or another, a deliberate policy of the parental generation -- just as the composer Mendelsohn's father had him baptised so that he would be allowed into the world outside the ghetto. gromgoru, antisemitism is given different rationalizations for different audiences, but the result is the same. The upper class rationalization may be differential success by the not-one-of-us interlopers, the lower class rationalization may be Christ killers, or rent collectors, or whatever. When I was growing up antisemitism was at its lowest ebb, such that in my sheltered environment I was never aware of it except as historical theory... although I've spoken to others who've lost out on jobs, contracts and opportunities because of their faith. Redneck Jim, I had always read that a 120 IQ is one standard deviation from the mean, or "bright", that 135-145 or so (depending who you ask) is "brilliant" and 150-165+ is genius. But regardless, you are quite intelligent enough for me. ;-) |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2007-03-11 15:53 |
| #15 I forgot to mention that both mom and dad are way past genius level, and I highly admire both. My IQ is 141 (120 Is Genius Level) and both of them are much smarter than I. |
| Posted by: Redneck Jim 2007-03-11 13:40 |
| #14 So when does the genocide against the Amish start? |
| Posted by: Grumenk Philalzabod0723 2007-03-11 13:37 |
| #13 This talk that "Jews will not intermarry with other faiths", is bullshit. Two years ago , my nephew (Catholic) married a nice Jewish Girl, they had both a priest and a Rabbi officiate, and combined the best traditions of the Jewish and Catholic ceremonies, it was a ball. They now have a beautiful Daughter, and absolutely no bickering as to which faith she will be raised, the agreement is "When she's old enough they'll explain both faiths, and let her decide which, or neither". |
| Posted by: Redneck Jim 2007-03-11 13:36 |
| #12 damn money grubbers |
| Posted by: Wesley Clark 2007-03-11 11:24 |
| #11 I think grom's on to something. Being average rarely gets you gassed. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2007-03-11 11:04 |
| #10 IMO, TW it's these who "fit into the larger society" that arouse anti-semitism because, on the average, they do better than Gentiles. Throughout European history (starting with Egyptian Greeks) Anti-Semitism was a upper/middle class thing. You might not see it in US,yet, because of "nation of immigrants" & white/black things. Now Churchill was one of the most clear sighted men England ever produced. And, unlike most of his class, not a dyed in the wool anti-semite. For example: read Churchill on the expulsion of Jews from England in 11th century. |
| Posted by: gromgoru 2007-03-11 10:49 |
| #9 There were some events during the great depression that highlighted Jews and irritated the non-Jews. First of these was that the financial institutions of Europe were Jewish dominated, which automatically irritated the population when the depression hit, it being "the bankers fault". (There was some of that in the US as well, a common sneer being against "New York Jew bankers".) But then, anyone with friends or relatives in the United States who could get dollars sent to them in Germany, could live like a millionaire because of the collapse of the Reichsmark. This included many Jews. This was exacerbated by some of those people living ostentatiously, while literally, Germans were starving to death in the streets. But most of all, there was just the longstanding European hatred of the Jews. For many years after the war the power of Joseph Goebbels propaganda machine was assumed to have *started* this hatred against the Jews; but that was incorrect. It just "fanned the fires" of existing hatred. If there is any fault at all on the part of the Jews "inviting persecution", it was that their integration was not absolute. They should have shunned any ghetto or concentration at all, and fully absorbed into society many years before. Comparatively speaking, immigrant Catholics in the US faced a similar problem at about the same time, facing serious persecution by the Ku Klux Klan of the 1920s. They were accused of being disloyal and only obeying the Pope, even of fomenting rebellion in an effort to overthrow the government of the US. "Keeping guns in their basements." However, once out of the big cities, they totally integrated with Protestants. This, along with the fortuitous collapse of the Klan in scandal, might have prevented more than just the few fistfight skirmishes that happened. And, it should be noted that the US also used concentration camps for both the Japanese and some of the Italians living the US, both of whom were far less integrated in the respective regions where they lived. In conclusion, it would be very wise for Muslims living in self-imposed Muslim communities around the developed world to get out of those communities and integrate as soon as possible. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2007-03-11 10:09 |
| #8 An alternative interpretation of Churchill's statement: by standing separate, they've made themselves obvious scapegoats. Not much better, but not as antisemitic as the given interpretations. |
| Posted by: Rob Crawford 2007-03-11 09:28 |
| #7 Hitler tried to get rid of the 'Jewish threat' onto an 'island' although many Jews fled the country, not many other countries would except them. The only reason we didn't except as many Jews into the UK was because the British public didn't want them, sounds bad, but nobody wanted to see half a million Jews walking into the UK. When the war started there were talk between Sweden and Germany (Sweden provided Germany with tremendous amounts of iron ore) and that hopefully a bridge could be 'secured' for the Danish Jews. Which something like 75% of Danish jews fled to Sweden, but it took until the war started for this to happen. Also unlucky, but many Jews who did flee Germany came to European countries, and then a few years down the line found themselves as part of a 'greater Germany' |
| Posted by: Devilstoenail 2007-03-11 07:37 |
| #6 Some context: In the 1930s there had been a substantial influx into Britain of East European and Balkan Jews who kept their traditions and separate communities. English Jews, like most Jews in western Europe at the time were well integrated. My grandmother worked for Jews for most of her life. Never had a bad word to say about them. BTW, I think the blue comments added are in poor taste. |
| Posted by: phil_b 2007-03-11 05:54 |
| #5 Here here TW! Can't wait to get back into my bibs and T-shirt (typical Georgia attire). |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2007-03-11 03:36 |
| #4 I think Sir Winston was giving vent to the prejudice of his class. I b'lieve (the English cousins can confirm/deny) that although most English Jews are indistinguishable from their gentile neighbors, there is a community of orthodox Jews, who wear the funny black clothes, beards and side curls, and pretty much keep to themselves. Nobody notices the many who fit quietly into the larger society, but only those few who, while industrious and law abiding, cling to a traditional appearance. It doesn't speak well of that larger society that it is willing to condemn such sober, industrious and law abiding members of society to mass extinction, merely because they have an odd hairstyle and don't send their children to public schools. People who dress funny, isolate themselves but, rather than be sober, industrious and law abiding, live off government charity, teach their children to hate the non-believers and work to conquer them, they do deserve the antagonism they invite. In my opinion, anyway. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2007-03-11 03:19 |
| #3 G: Bullshit. Nobody worked as hard to be absorbed than German Jews. I think he meant religion. And intermarriage. |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2007-03-11 01:56 |
| #2 Bullshit. Nobody worked as hard to be absorbed than German Jews. |
| Posted by: gromgoru 2007-03-11 01:06 |
| #1 "He looks different. He thinks differently. He has a different tradition and background. He refuses to be absorbed." Could be said of more than the Jew I'm afraid. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2007-03-11 00:36 |