| Submit your comments on this article | |||
| Home Front: Politix | |||
| U.S. Republicans battle charge Iraq war is lost | |||
| 2007-04-20 | |||
| Republicans better fight back hard on this one. Reid needs to do lots more waffling and back-stepping. TIPP CITY, Ohio, April 19 (Reuters) - President George W. Bush and fellow Republicans struggled on Thursday with comparisons between the U.S. wars in Iraq and Vietnam as the Senate's top Democrat declared the Iraq lost. A day after a White House meeting with lawmakers failed to resolve differences over whether to attach a troop withdrawal plan to a war funding bill, Bush and the Democrats continued their feud from afar. Asked to compare Iraq to Vietnam, a war that still weighs on the American psyche three decades after it ended, Bush told an Ohio audience a premature U.S. withdrawal from Iraq could lead to chaos and death the same way war broke out between Vietnam and the Khmer Rouge of Cambodia after the fall of Saigon in 1975. "After Vietnam, after we left, millions of people lost their life. My concern is there would be a parallel there," Bush said, adding that "This time around, the enemy wouldn't just be content to stay in the Middle East, they'd follow us here." Bush says he will veto legislation containing the $100 billion in war funding -- money he requested -- if Democrats persist in plans to attach a troop withdrawal timetable to it. But in Washington, Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat and leader of the Senate majority, said he had taken a message to Bush in their White House meeting on Wednesday that "this war is lost" and Bush's troop buildup plan "is not accomplishing anything" after insurgent bombs killed nearly 200 people that day in Baghdad.
Many lawmakers believe serious talks toward a compromise will not take place until after a veto. Then, they say, there could be fresh legislation that would have "benchmarks" to gauge Iraq's progress instead of withdrawal timetables. "It's disturbing that some on Capitol Hill believe they know more than the commanders on the ground, said White House spokeswoman Dana Perino. "His comment is in conflict with the senior military advisors who are implementing the Baghdad security plan, working to calm the violence and to protect the innocent men, women and children of Iraq who are being victimized by a vicious enemy." Republican lawmakers pilloried Reid. "I can't begin to imagine how our troops in the field, who are risking their lives every day, are going to react when they get back to base and hear that the Democrat leader in the United States Senate has declared the war is lost," said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, a Kentucky Republican. | |||
| Posted by:Danking70 |
| #38 Thanks for the links, they are much appreciated. |
| Posted by: Jan from work 2007-04-20 19:50 |
| #37 Dang. My bad. And here I was thinking folks were beginning to lose interest in our new Chew Toy. |
| Posted by: Dave D. 2007-04-20 19:12 |
| #36 Dave's a party pooper. We were just beginning to skin that skunk. |
| Posted by: ed 2007-04-20 19:05 |
| #35 few years |
| Posted by: ed 2007-04-20 18:58 |
| #34 Lord RB is being attacked by a MasterMind! |
| Posted by: Shipman 2007-04-20 18:54 |
| #33 "You would have known about it already if I did." Much more likely, the FBI person who took your call suggested you calm yourself, or perhaps seek counselling. In any case they're not going to get their knickers in a twist over anything they'll see here at Rantburg. "Asshole." I hope you have a very nice day. I know, I certainly am! Bye bye, Woozie... |
| Posted by: Dave D. 2007-04-20 18:52 |
| #32 I'm thinking a few of Las Vegas under Sharia is the proper punishment for Nevada voters' mistakes. |
| Posted by: ed 2007-04-20 18:24 |
| #31 Harry Reid is a hypocritical bastidge. Weazle Spamp5018, you can't shit me, I have a turd in every pocket. I'm also probably already on an FBI watch list. Big whoop. |
| Posted by: Deacon Blues 2007-04-20 18:12 |
| #30 I would like to see how Harry Reid defines what "victory" and "defeat" mean with regard to Iraq. I believe that having an elected Iraqi government capable of maintaining order in Iraq without a significant U.S. troop presence would constitute victory, even if the insurgency is merely diminished but not entirely quiescent. But we will not know whether the Iraqi government can stand up on its own until we leave, so the real test of victory or defeat only comes after the significant downscaling of the U.S. military presence (probably beginning in early 2008). As I see it defeat could come in three forms: 1. A Sunni-Shi'ite civil war erupts, leading to widespread destruction and regional instability 2. The insurgency is able to increase significantly the amount of carnage it causes and maintain that for a protracted length of time, undermining the government and leading to further atomization 3. Radical Islamic or Iranian-allied elements gain control over the government (i.e. al-Sadr) Of these possibilities #2 is apparently what Reid is focused on. Unless the "surge" strategy and new security implementations of General Petraeus take hold and can reduce the level of carnage and destruction within the next few months, I would have to concede his point. We have neither the resources nor the political will to remain engaged for many additional months. The situation is not hopeless yet, but time is running out. This really is the last roll of the dice. |
| Posted by: Grumenk Philalzabod0723 2007-04-20 17:54 |
| #29 neal boortz had an interesting note on this. the democrats are hevily invested in the defeat of america in iraq. they have simply said too much for too long about the war for them to be able ot stomach or survive an american victory, so they MUST ensure the defeat that is thier only avenue to holding or gaining power, |
| Posted by: Abu do you love 2007-04-20 17:52 |
| #28 Frank, you are correct, sir. Hannity also hung Alec Baldwin out to dry. There seems to be a self-destruct trend in the air among lefties lately. But then, this sort of inability to deal with reality is a necessary step in the eventual awakening of the American left. They must see their 'leaders' for what they are, pompous egocentric vindictive losers. They have spent over 6 years attacking Bush for the crime of elected leader, a position they crave, and now they crack and crumble over nothing. The only alarming event in the world today is the terrorists spinning Islam into the 'religion' of anti-human, anti-life behavior. The very thing that the left still doesn't get. |
| Posted by: wxjames 2007-04-20 16:28 |
| #27 Hannity on radio just nowis ON FIRE: "demanding that Harry Reid resign - disgraceful, disgusting behavior. Sick - resign, get OUT of the Senate" |
| Posted by: Frank G 2007-04-20 15:47 |
| #26 Without diving to the depths of the name calling, I think Weasel Spam (oops, I slipped) has touched pretty close on a bunch of points: the Repubs had enough time to take the Muszzienuts down and instead let their powerlust lose the Senate and House; W has had a virtual castration, SecState started out like a tiger, is now just another donk in trunk clothes. Yes there are many in the US that want us to succeed, but for whatever reason, our messages hasn't gotten through to the right people. So like Weasel Spam says, until we unleash the force and might that we have spent who-knows-how-much building, we will get our asses kicked by a bunch of throat-slashing goat phuquers. (And not once did I call anybody an Asshole). |
| Posted by: USN, Ret. 2007-04-20 15:47 |
| #25 Looks like there's a lot of "huffing and puffing" going around today, eh, Woozle? Yeah, check out your comment about philosophy majors. LOL. |
| Posted by: Woozle Spamp5018 2007-04-20 15:44 |
| #24 Got that FBI file started yet, asshole? You would have known about it already if I did. Asshole. Looks like there's a lot of "huffing and puffing" going around today, eh, Woozle? |
| Posted by: tu3031 2007-04-20 15:38 |
| #23 Got that FBI file started yet, asshole? You would have known about it already if I did. Asshole. |
| Posted by: Woozle Spamp5018 2007-04-20 15:27 |
| #22 Let's use every bit of that high-tech might, decimate these fuckers and get it over with. Would that be okay with you, douchebag? Or would you piss your pants if we'd finally had enough and actually did it? LOL. Be my guest. All this huffing and puffing but you still can't blow the house down! You had 4 years! Bush will have had a total of 8! What losers! |
| Posted by: Woozle Spamp5018 2007-04-20 15:26 |
| #21 All that high-tech might, yet you've lost against a 3rd world country, again. Woozle Spamp5018 is right. Let's use every bit of that high-tech might, decimate these fuckers and get it over with. Would that be okay with you, douchebag? Or would you piss your pants if we'd finally had enough and actually did it? |
| Posted by: tu3031 2007-04-20 14:14 |
| #20 What I would like someone to explain to me is just what metric Reid is using for victory. Saddam is dead and gone. The Baathists are on the run and being killed daily. If anyone is dying, it's Iraqis killing each other. The Kurds have shown that Iraq can be quiet, peaceful and productive. If we have to have all of Iraq quiet before we can declare victory, we've got a problem. It never has been and it never will be. What will probably happen is that we will hang on long enough to have the slow-motion ethnic cleansing of the Sunnis completed, after which we will wish the Shia government good luck and probably put a base into the Kurdish area in the north. I'd like to see Reid in jail for treason. |
| Posted by: Mac 2007-04-20 13:44 |
| #19 OBL had always said of us, that we don't have the staying power; that we're not the "strong horse" and that if you will but bleed us enough (and God knows, it doesn't take a whole lot), for long enough, America **WILL** give up and go home sooner or later. So tell us, why is it that OBL has it right? Why is it Americans can't pull a win out of their [hats] if their lives depended on it? (Lately, that is, WW2 doesn't count, neither does the cold war). All that high-tech might, yet you've lost against a 3rd world country, again. There is a striking similarity between Vietnam and Iraq. People can see the facts for what they are. After 4 years, the majority of people recognize a failure when they see it. But that's not even the interesting part. What's interesting is that you blame your own people, rather than your current government that is responsible for getting you into this mess. You will never win. You will never win, but not because OBL is right, but because you are wrong.
| |
| Posted by: Woozle Spamp5018 2007-04-20 13:19 |
| #18 This has been and will be a very long war. It started when Iran took our embassy. Iraq is the largest set piece battle...so far. Assuming we leave Iraq early and it falls into despair, Reid's words will be remembered. When terrorists/provocateaurs from that failed state hit our country again in a much more significant way than on 9/11, Reid's words will be remembered. Sadly it will not be until many tens of thousands of Americans lie dead that we will have the collective fear and subsequent anger to do what needs to be done. This is all a preamble, the opening act. Harry is just a bit player who will be remembered as the spineless craven worm that he is. |
| Posted by: remoteman 2007-04-20 11:36 |
| #17 I found that faxes work pretty well in getting the word to Congress. It is a hard piece of paper that bypasses the mail room. Get your point across. Direct. Do not be abusive, nor threatening, but be civil and to the point. Concise. Stick to the issues. You want the staffer to read it, not report it to the FBI. |
| Posted by: Alaska Paul 2007-04-20 11:01 |
| #16 RE: # 13 Vallandigham was tried by a military court 6-7 May {1863}, denied a writ of "habeas corpus", convicted by a military tribunal of "uttering disloyal sentiments" and attempting to hinder the prosecution of the war, and sentenced to 2 years' confinement in a military prison. A Federal circuit judge upheld Vallandigham's arrest and military trial as a valid exercise of the President's war powers. So, Mr. Spemble - are you some sort of history geek? Thank heavens for Wikipedia! |
| Posted by: Bobby 2007-04-20 08:11 |
| #15 #11 Glenmore - I have found Nancy Pelosi and John Murtha will not accept e-mails other than from their constituents. Because they are so dispicable, I take a little extra time and 39 cents and send them a letter. I let them know I think it hippocritical that they claim to speak for the whole country, but will not listen to any but from the small region that will get them re-elected. The Country is composed of many voices, but they only want to listen to the few - and no dissenting voices. I did get a nice response from Senator Warner recently, one that did take some staff member a few minutes to compose. Other than that, I just consider it as part of the poll in the congresscritter's morning briefing - 37 "For" Senator, and 14 "Against" the issue. I hope a catchy phrase sticks with the staffer, and may even make it to the top dog, but the whole point for me is to speak. they don't want to listen, that's fine, but I have come to believe it is my responsibility to let my voice be heard. You gotta believe the loons are e-mailing and writing! |
| Posted by: Bobby 2007-04-20 08:04 |
| #14 Remember this time boys and girls when they ask what was the old republic like. The Donks are creating an environment politicizing the military in their desperate endeavors to retain power by playing to such a small margin of their most extreme constituency. The Trunk are unwilling to put in the financial and political resources to hammer the Donks because they're blindly tied to the election cycle calendar. Each petty politico is willing to sacrifice the very republic by playing short term games for power which after the dust settles will be shown to consist of nothing more than air. Votes in the end mean nothing. Dictators have constantly received 99.9 per cent of their usual referendums. It is the willingness to give that last full measure of devotion which determines real power. Who is willing to die for Congress? Who is willing to die for either political party? |
| Posted by: Procopius2k 2007-04-20 07:49 |
| #13 It's going to be a long war. Harry Reid will be as well remembered as Clement Laird Vallandingham. The event that will be of consequence is the election in November 2008. Then the American people will decide if they want to be the fist or the punching bag. Reid is just laying out one of the choices. Too bad Bush didn't turn out to be a Lincoln. He could have been a contenda. |
| Posted by: Nimble Spemble 2007-04-20 07:46 |
| #12 I can't shake the gnawing feeling that yesterday, with Harry Reid's announcement of America's defeat (for that is exactly what it was), will end up being a major turning point in this war. In a war which is almost entirely a contest of wills, you cannot have the highest-ranking member of the U.S. Senate declare "the war is lost" without the enemy concluding on the basis of that announcement that they have won or are about to win. It will now be immensely more difficult-- impossible, even-- to persuade the Mujj to give up, because by now they must surely be convinced, beyond all doubt, that we ourselves are about to call it quits and go slinking home in defeat. Mark my words: Harry Reid's announcement yesterday will be remembered as a turning point in the same way as *SPIT* Walter Cronkite's "we can't win" announcement after the Tet offensive in the Vietnam War. I shudder to think what drastic action it would take to undo the damage Harry Reid caused yesterday. |
| Posted by: Dave D. 2007-04-20 07:12 |
| #11 Bobby, Re. "Just enter your Zip code!" 1) Won't even hit their inbox unless it's a Zip code from their jurisdiction. Take a little time and look up a valid one to put in your fake address if you want to communicate with a politician from another state or district. 2) E-mails do seem to get read by staff - I get responses fairly often, and some even are related to what I wrote - but they don't 'count' much. For your opinion to count they need to know who you are, and that is knowledge they generally obtain from the data on your checks. |
| Posted by: Glenmore 2007-04-20 07:07 |
| #10 Reid needs to answer for this every time he's in front of the press and congress. The cowardice, artifice, and political opportunism at a time our people are fighting and dying for us is despicable |
| Posted by: Frank G 2007-04-20 06:39 |
| #9 This war was never going to be decided on the basis of military might, or superior tactics or strategy; it could never have been, as there are very few armies on the face of this Earth that could take us on in a no-holds-barred fight and have even a FAINT prayer of surviving. Perhaps even none. And for all but a small handful of the world's armies, our defeating them in all-out, total war would be scarcely harder than clubbing baby seals. Or drowning kittens. This war was always about one and ONLY one thing: who has the greater will to win. OBL had always said of us, that we don't have the staying power; that we're not the "strong horse" and that if you will but bleed us enough (and God knows, it doesn't take a whole lot), for long enough, America **WILL** give up and go home sooner or later. Why do the Mujj keep on resisting us? BECAUSE THEY THINK HE'S RIGHT, that's why. By now, after listening to our So they keep on killing Iraqis and Americans, personally reassured by Harry Reid and his loathesome co-conspirators that it's working. Harry Reid is murdering American soldiers. And I think he knows it. |
| Posted by: Dave D. 2007-04-20 06:37 |
| #8 You can even e-mail your President, both Senators, and your Representative AT THE SAME TIME here. Just enter your Zip code! I told mine to Please take a stand for the safety and security of our Country, Gentlemen, and do not let Senator Reid's borderline-treasonous drivel go unanswered! |
| Posted by: Bobby 2007-04-20 06:21 |
| #7 Another e-mail. They really are as easy as a post! Reid said: "As long as we follow the president's path in Iraq, the war is lost. But there is still a chance to change course -- and we must change course." Did we change course when Secretary Rumsfeld resigned, Senator? Didn't the course shift when the Senate confirmed General Petreaus? What about the "surge"? Isn't that a "change in course"? You supported the resignation, and voted for the confirmation, but the "course" still needs to be "changed" some more, Senator? The only change in course you espouse is retreat, without a thought as to what that would do to the region, let alone this Country. I support letting the President conduct the Iraq War without conditions or interference from Congress. |
| Posted by: Bobby 2007-04-20 06:12 |
| #6 I e-mailed my thoughts to the Senator "The war can only be won diplomatically, politically and economically, and the president needs to come to that realization," Reid said in a news conference. Tell me, Senator, how the diplomatic, political, and economic fronts can be won without military stability? When were those aspects settled in Germany, Japan, and South Korea? When were the diplomatic, political, and economic fronts "won" in Vietnam? Not when the US left, Senator, but only after the North Vietnamese invaded the south with their tanks and regular army, killed thousands, and drove millions out of the country, and imposed their way of life by military force. Perhaps after Iran invades the Shi'ite regions, and the Saudis invade the Sunni areas, and the Turks invade the Kurdistan - then we could move on to the diplomatic, political, and economic solutions. Will you ever come to the realization that America's future is more important than the Democrats retaining power so you can continue to get your face on national TV? |
| Posted by: Bobby 2007-04-20 06:04 |
| #5 November 7th, 2006 is Reid's salvation forward. Only an idiot would kick an scream while being pulled to the top of the mountain by 'The People'!! |
| Posted by: smn 2007-04-20 02:23 |
| #4 Would someone please go down to the Federal Courts and file charges on this guy???? He is encouraging the enemy to continue the killings of our young men and women. |
| Posted by: Uninens Big Foot5550 2007-04-20 02:16 |
| #3 Reid needs Iraq's Al Qaeda to win. Al Qaeda victories "make Democratic advances" possible on the home front. reid simply tells Al Qaeda, "you win". This is treason. Reid feels immune, publicly, because the mentally disturbed MSM drones will lock step with this strategy. |
| Posted by: Uninens Big Foot5550 2007-04-20 02:10 |
| #2 U.S. Republicans battle charge Iraq war is lost [CAP WARNING] PUBS, GET SOME SPINE, BACKBONE, and TESTICULAR FORTITUDE, because folks are putting their ass on the line over-there so you can put your precious tender-egos in front of the TeeWee Cameras here and GIT FUCKING MAD AS HELL AT--->REID & CO THE DEMOCRAP TRAITORS!! [/CAP WARNING] |
| Posted by: RD 2007-04-20 00:55 |
| #1 Our fifth column media will never admit it, but Reid is more concerned with Iraqi deaths than American lives. It sucks to be Iraqi and suffer such mass casualty attacks, but I am more concerned with our people than with Iraqi deaths. The faster Reid and his allies get that through their head, the faster we can win this war. |
| Posted by: badanov 2007-04-20 00:22 |