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| NPR: A Former Navy SEAL Questions Rules of War |
| 2007-08-14 |
| The article runs longer. Go to the link for the balance and a recording of the interview. A excerpt follows. In June 2005, Marcus Luttrell and three of his fellow Navy SEALs set off on a mission in the mountains of Afghanistan. They were ambushed by the Taliban, leaving him as the only survivor among the American special operations team. Luttrell, who has since retired from the military, recounts the ordeal in a memoir, Lone Survivor, co-written by Patrick Robinson. The book has received much attention this summer, in part because of the decisions the SEALs made. They're the kind of decisions that lie at the heart of the war on terrorism: Who do you target — and who you do kill — when the enemy doesn't wear a uniform? "War's not black and white," Luttrell tells Steve Inskeep. "You can sit there and put it on paper, like, 'This is what has to be done in this certain situation.' But when you get up there on that mountain, or when you're in a battlefield, it doesn't work that way. And sometimes stuff has to be done so you can preserve the life of your men." Luttrell faced at least two decisions with lives at stake, including his own. The first decision came after the SEALs moved into the Afghan mountains. That's when they were discovered by Afghans who might betray their presence. The SEALs were looking down from a mountainside, waiting for an enemy leader who was suspected to be in the village below.They soon encountered three males and about 100 goats. The SEALs interrogated the herders, but "couldn't get anything out of them," Luttrell says. "And then, we just had that uneasy feeling. A lot of times, you can talk to villagers and they're really forthcoming with information, and sometimes they're not." The SEALs discussed their options — tie up the herders and take them along, tie them up and leave them, or to kill them. In the end, the Americans decided to turn the herders loose. Luttrell says he's still not sure if they made the right call. In the book, Luttrell raises questions about the rules of war — and whether Americans should be following them. He writes: "Faced with the murderous cutthroats of the Taliban, we are not fighting under the rules of Geneva IV Article 4. We are fighting under the rules of Article 223.556mm — that's the caliber and bullet gauge of our M4 rifle. "Sometimes, it's hard to fight an enemy when ... they're following a different set of rules. They're not following any rules, actually, in some regards. And when we go out there to deal with it, it's tough." |
| Posted by:Delphi |
| #16 "That's when they were discovered by Afghans who might betray their presence." OOPS.... |
| Posted by: crazyhorse 2007-08-14 22:30 |
| #15 understood, and thanks. I know it can't be intentional, and it must be a very hard decision for our higher command to choose who to send. Hindsight as always. I agree with Broadhead6, we need to blackout the media. |
| Posted by: Jan 2007-08-14 21:37 |
| #14 Thanks for the vote of confidence in the book, Sherry. His quote on the "rules of Article 223.556 mm" alone swung me over. Actually, I was alredy plannin' on picking it up. This article just seals the deal (no pun intended). |
| Posted by: BA 2007-08-14 20:57 |
| #13 perhaps better suited for Marines passed thru the Sonora hi-altitude training, given.... |
| Posted by: Frank G 2007-08-14 20:52 |
| #12 Besoeker, I think I have to disagree with you here. SEALS are sea air land trained. SEALS are primarily trained to ingress and egress by water, they're also a LOT more comfortable having the Sea at their backs. Sneakin' and peekin' on a mountainside is a mission better suited to the Marine Forced Recon or one of the Army special operations units. Not the SEALS. I wasn't there, but if it was me, those goat herders would have been found dead, and I'd have scrubbed the mission due to being compromised. Snatch the HVT some other time. They (the SEALS) were on the wrong mission, and this isn't the first time higher command has screwed the pooch with an assignment like this. The Panama operation at the airport comes to mind. |
| Posted by: Natural Law 2007-08-14 20:17 |
| #11 Besoeker, they were on a "snatch and grab" of a HVT that they had been hunting for awhile. He wasn't "just a local." |
| Posted by: Sherry 2007-08-14 17:20 |
| #10 Besoeker, I think I have to disagree with you here. SEALS are sea air land trained. They have alot more than flyrods here. I wish none of our military needed to be on any mountain top, but that's what we need to do. I think the big problem here is that they thought about how killing the goat herders would be received over the need to kill them for the safety of the mission. Broadhead6, spot on. |
| Posted by: Jan 2007-08-14 16:54 |
| #9 BA -- run, don't walk and get this book. Be sure you have soon time set aside to read it. You will be laughing on one page and crying on the next. My Sunday morning smile lately, is getting my Sunday paper, and looking at the NYTimes top 10 non-fiction books, and Long Survivor is still there are #1. Love how that must just grate them, that a SEAL's book is #1 on their list! I guarantee you, if you dislike this book, email me, and I'll pay for your book! It's a compelling read and a "must read." |
| Posted by: Sherry 2007-08-14 16:45 |
| #8 The SEALs discussed their options Ok, granted I wasn't there thank Allah, but I'll drop the flag on this one anyway. First off, deer hunting with a fishing pole generally produces quite predictable results. Those lads belong in a maritime environment, not on a mountain top. That's their specialty, no one is better at it. Use them there, do NOT abuse them elsewhere. Yes, I know.... they are very hooah and will volunteer for anything, but come on damn it, look at the score card and records. Secondly, "discussing options?" WTF, is this decision by committee? Who was in charge? This was obviously a (non-contact) recce mission? What did they think they were going to get out of a local, for phuechs sake? What about actions short of the objective? Contact plan? E&E Plan? Rally points? Wasted talent, wasted lives. More JSOTF lets all be cool direct action or long range surveillance expert bullshit. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2007-08-14 13:21 |
| #7 I'd recommend this book highly. |
| Posted by: JohnQC 2007-08-14 13:05 |
| #6 Marcus and his team had a real bad day because of stupid ROEs. They said they were more afraid of the MSM and the left in the U.S. than the Taliban. |
| Posted by: JohnQC 2007-08-14 13:04 |
| #5 We listened to the book on tape on our vacation a few weeks ago. Am now reading the book for the complete version. 'after encountering goatherders with about 100 goats,...' Page 23; "When they find the bodies the Taliban leaders will sing to the Afghan media. The media in the U.S.A. will latch on to it and write stuff about the brutish U.S. Armed Forces. Very shortly after that, we'll be charged with murder. The murder of innocent unarmed Afghan farmers." Knowing that our military even consider this disgusts me. Wake up America! |
| Posted by: Jan 2007-08-14 11:47 |
| #4 I've seen this book at my local Costco and have been pondering whether or not to buy. I think the quote on the Geneva Conventions just made up my mind for me. I'm headin' there this afternoon. |
| Posted by: BA 2007-08-14 08:55 |
| #3 tid up em up oand left them. or kill them whick hindsight is 20/20 but seems ,ore than likeky the goat herders turned them in too the taliban |
| Posted by: Jesus saves 2007-08-14 08:34 |
| #2 It's a sh*tty situation for the warfighters to be in -- some commanders have an avoid collateral damage at all costs attitude -- I personally prefer avoid collateral damage if possible. There's so much fear of a "bad CNN moment" or another incident that could be construed as a my lai that the Cents (based off the recommendations of a lot of jags) really hamstring us. I used to tell my lads - 'tis better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. In the end all the more reason to black out the media & have AFN as the only source of info coming out of iraq/afghanland. |
| Posted by: Broadhead6 2007-08-14 06:24 |
| #1 It's necessary that men like Luttrell should die while following ridiculous rules, in order that educated people can sip imported coffee and feel comfortable about themselves. |
| Posted by: gromky 2007-08-14 01:37 |