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Fifth Column
Robert Fisk: Even I Question The 'Truth' About 9/11
2007-08-27
Someone's gotta do it.
By Robert Fisk

Each time I lecture abroad on the Middle East, there is always someone in the audience – just one – whom I call the "raver".
A 'troofer'? Cindy Sheehan? Medea Benjamin? Oh, no, he's going elsewhere with this ...
Apologies here to all the men and women who come to my talks with bright and pertinent questions – often quite humbling ones for me as a journalist – and which show that they understand the Middle East tragedy a lot better than the journalists who report it.
And especially you, Bob, especially you.
But the "raver" is real. He has turned up in corporeal form in Stockholm and in Oxford, in Sao Paulo and in Yerevan, in Cairo, in Los Angeles and, in female form, in Barcelona. No matter the country, there will always be a "raver".

His – or her – question goes like this. Why, if you believe you're a free journalist, don't you report what you really know about 9/11? Why don't you tell the truth – that the Bush administration (or the CIA or Mossad, you name it) blew up the twin towers? Why don't you reveal the secrets behind 9/11? The assumption in each case is that Fisk knows – that Fisk has an absolute concrete, copper-bottomed fact-filled desk containing final proof of what "all the world knows" (that usually is the phrase) – who destroyed the twin towers. Sometimes the "raver" is clearly distressed.
Fisk is so important that he refers to himself in the third person.
One man in Cork screamed his question at me, and then – the moment I suggested that his version of the plot was a bit odd – left the hall, shouting abuse and kicking over chairs.

Usually, I have tried to tell the "truth"; that while there are unanswered questions about 9/11, ...
What questions are those Bob? Any question about who did it? Any question as to why?
... I am the Middle East correspondent of The Independent, not the conspiracy correspondent; that I have quite enough real plots on my hands in Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, Iran, the Gulf, etc, to worry about imaginary ones in Manhattan.
Does this mean we'll get an article from you about Syrian plots in Lebanon?
My final argument – a clincher, in my view – is that the Bush administration has screwed up everything – militarily, politically diplomatically – it has tried to do in the Middle East; so how on earth could it successfully bring off the international crimes against humanity in the United States on 11 September 2001?
There's a back-handed compliment. Does anyone think the Clinton or Reagan administration could be more 'competent', or is it just that no sane American political official of either party would do such a thing?
Well, I still hold to that view. Any military which can claim – as the Americans did two days ago – that al-Qa'ida is on the run is not capable of carrying out anything on the scale of 9/11. "We disrupted al-Qa'ida, causing them to run," Colonel David Sutherland said of the preposterously code-named "Operation Lightning Hammer" in Iraq's Diyala province. "Their fear of facing our forces proves the terrorists know there is no safe haven for them." And more of the same, all of it untrue.
In what way, Bob? al-Q has a battalion of shock troops? al-Q is standing tall and tough in Fallujah? Anbar? Baghdad? About the only place we know of where al-Q is supreme is Wazoo. Care to venture why?
Within hours, al-Qa'ida attacked Baquba in battalion strength and slaughtered all the local sheikhs who had thrown in their hand with the Americans.
No word from Bob whether that's a good thing, assuming it happened.
It reminds me of Vietnam, the war which George Bush watched from the skies over Texas – which may account for why he this week mixed up the end of the Vietnam war with the genocide in a different country called Cambodia, whose population was eventually rescued by the same Vietnamese whom Mr Bush's more courageous colleagues had been fighting all along.
Perhaps if we'd just delivered the ammo we promised the South Vietnamese it wouldn't have happened.
But – here we go. I am increasingly troubled at the inconsistencies in the official narrative of 9/11.
Oh dear, Bob is, deep down inside, a troofer allright. He just knows better than to admit it.
It's not just the obvious non sequiturs: where are the aircraft parts (engines, etc) from the attack on the Pentagon?
Because you don't punch a neat, airplane-outline hole in a stone and steel structure, Bob. Per the Popular Mechanics review, the hole was 75 feet wide at impact on ring E (the plane, with wings, was 124 feet wide). The wings were sheared off and didn't punch through. You've been watching too many cartoons.
Why have the officials involved in the United 93 flight (which crashed in Pennsylvania) been muzzled?
Who exactly has been muzzled? How about a name, Bob?
Why did flight 93's debris spread over miles when it was supposed to have crashed in one piece in a field?
Because that's what airplanes do when they hit the ground violently, Bob. Slam a plane into the ground at 500 mph and parts fly everywhere.
Again, I'm not talking about the crazed "research" of David Icke's Alice in Wonderland and the World Trade Center Disaster – which should send any sane man back to reading the telephone directory.
Perhaps you could generate random names for our visitors?
I am talking about scientific issues. If it is true, for example, that kerosene burns at 820C under optimum conditions, how come the steel beams of the twin towers – whose melting point is supposed to be about 1,480C – would snap through at the same time?
Because the steel weakened from the heat causing a loss of tensile strength. Once the weight of the building above them was greater than the weight the weakened beams could bear, they failed, and all it took was the beams from a single floor to fail for the whole structure to pancake down. Steel heated to ~ 900C loses a considerable amount of tensile strength according to the experts quoted by Popular Mechanics: at 1100F, about 50%. And it wasn't just jet fuel burning, it was also the contents of the WTC floors hit by the plane, including lots of paper, furniture, rugs, etc. You might want to try a little research, Bob.
(They collapsed in 8.1 and 10 seconds.) What about the third tower – the so-called World Trade Centre Building 7 (or the Salmon Brothers Building) – which collapsed in 6.6 seconds in its own footprint at 5.20pm on 11 September? Why did it so neatly fall to the ground when no aircraft had hit it?
Because it had taken substantial damage, especially to its south face, along with a long-burning fire that wasn't put out, according to the experts quoted in PM, Bob.
The American National Institute of Standards and Technology was instructed to analyse the cause of the destruction of all three buildings. They have not yet reported on WTC 7. Two prominent American professors of mechanical engineering – very definitely not in the "raver" bracket – are now legally challenging the terms of reference of this final report on the grounds that it could be "fraudulent or deceptive".
Actually they have reported, Bob. Care to guess in how many ways they disagree with you and the troofers?
Journalistically, there were many odd things about 9/11.
For example, just how many journalists put up with all the troofer nonsense.
Initial reports of reporters that they heard "explosions" in the towers – which could well have been the beams cracking – are easy to dismiss. Less so the report that the body of a female air crew member was found in a Manhattan street with her hands bound.
Guess we all missed that one, since the bodies were all incinerated in the initial collision with the jet fuel.
OK, so let's claim that was just hearsay reporting at the time, just as the CIA's list of Arab suicide-hijackers, which included three men who were – and still are – very much alive and living in the Middle East, was an initial intelligence error.
Or a press error, or a dim-witted troofer error.
But what about the weird letter allegedly written by Mohamed Atta, the Egyptian hijacker-murderer with the spooky face, whose "Islamic" advice to his gruesome comrades – released by the CIA – mystified every Muslim friend I know in the Middle East? Atta mentioned his family – which no Muslim, however ill-taught, would be likely to include in such a prayer. He reminds his comrades-in-murder to say the first Muslim prayer of the day and then goes on to quote from it. But no Muslim would need such a reminder – let alone expect the text of the "Fajr" prayer to be included in Atta's letter.
Atta was a little nuts. Diabolical genius to figure out how to make 9/11 work, but also nuts. Does his letter have to make sense?
Let me repeat. I am not a conspiracy theorist.
You just like shoving a sharp stick at us Americans whenever you get the chance.
Spare me the ravers. Spare me the plots. But like everyone else, I would like to know the full story of 9/11, not least because it was the trigger for the whole lunatic, meretricious "war on terror" which has led us to disaster in Iraq and Afghanistan and in much of the Middle East.
Afghanistan is and has been no disaster -- we rid ourselves of an evil regime and a base of operations for al-Qaeda. Iraq is and has been no disaster -- with all the faults one could point out, we rid the world of an evil, genocidal thug and his evil spawn, and we've given the Iraqis a chance to grad hold of their own country. And we either make war on terrorists or we suffer the consequences, amply demonstrated by 9/11. And 7/7. And 3/11. And Bali ...
Bush's happily departed adviser Karl Rove once said that "we're an empire now – we create our own reality". True? At least tell us. It would stop people kicking over chairs.
You might do well to let Karl create a reality for you, Bob. Beats the one you have.
Posted by:Steve White

#31  Aris, I would think that by recent definitions of Genocide the treatement of Christians on many Islands in Indonesia would qualify.

Fisk is a liberal, to come to a conclusion he uses emotion and not reason.
Posted by: rjschwarz   2007-08-27 23:21  

#30  Less so the report that the body of a female air crew member was found in a Manhattan street with her hands bound.

I'm not sure that even PM stooped to disprove this "theory", but didn't we hear from other flight attendants (maybe on Flight 93) that they (the Islamonazis) had tied up (and actually slit the throat of one of them) the flight attendants? So, why not the same treatment for the WTC planes? Jeebus, is this guy really that dense (don't answer that one)?
Posted by: BA   2007-08-27 22:26  

#29  Proof that liberalism is a religion. You must believe it, never mind the proof

Exactly, Darth!
Posted by: mcsegeek1   2007-08-27 18:34  

#28  tu3031 - re: How do we know, Fiskie? How do we know?

tufunny! lol!
Posted by: Unutle McGurque8861   2007-08-27 17:03  

#27  #25 "Genocide" has become another buzzword, like calling any opinion you dislike "fascist" or "racist."

For example: The deaths of "dozens" (no one really knows) of Mexican students in the late '60s/early '70s was ruled genocide.


Ms Schultz, this remind me of that vintage article one can find at the website linked in my previous comment above :

The Black Panthers and the Police:
A Pattern of Genocide?


Very interesting debunking of a "genocide" claim made by the BP taken ad verbatim and given credence by the press of the time, long but well worth the read.
Posted by: anonymous5089   2007-08-27 14:52  

#26  Why is this idiot still getting paid to write this drivel?
Posted by: mojo   2007-08-27 14:43  

#25  "Genocide" has become another buzzword, like calling any opinion you dislike "fascist" or "racist."

For example: The deaths of "dozens" (no one really knows) of Mexican students in the late '60s/early '70s was ruled genocide.

Although the article doesn't say so, the classification of the murder of an unknown (but comparitively small) number of people of unknown ethnic background as "genocide" was due to the fact that murder has a statute of limitations in Mexico, whereas genocide does not.

Of course, that only applies to genocide committed after 2002, but the Mexican government is determined to prosecute Echeverría, law or no law.
Posted by: Angie Schultz   2007-08-27 13:46  

#24  Also there was aluminum fire from the planes. Aluminum fires get much hotter than fuel ones and they decompose water so shedding water (like from the automatic sprinklers in the towers) over them actually increases the fire (and in addition you get hydrogen fire)

Jeebus! Having lit off substantial amounts of aluminum powder in my lifetime, I don't know why that fact didn't occur to me. Great insight, JFM.
Posted by: Zenster   2007-08-27 13:24  

#23  How do we know Afghans beat Fiskie's ass? How do we know he didn't beat his own ass with an empty bottle of Hennesey's or something for an easy story? How do we know some Afghan dominatrix didn't put the hurt on him? How do we know that Cheney didn't fly in, personally beat his ass, and then get whisked out to that secure location they were always talking about?
How do we know, Fiskie? How do we know?
Posted by: tu3031   2007-08-27 13:21  

#22  "Genocide" has become another buzzword, like calling any opinion you dislike "fascist" or "racist." When I read or hear "genocide," I can smell something, and it ain't coffee brewing. "Mass murder" is more accurate, and needs to be distinguished from lawful killing. I kind of admire the old Texas proverb, "Some people need killing."
"Anything more recent than 80 years ago?" Who have you killed for us lately, Aris? Your extremely selective view of world affairs is just another one of many.
Posted by: Anguper Hupomosing9418   2007-08-27 13:19  

#21  I have a thought experiemtn...

Not to rain on your experiment, 'cause I love sciece, but you are assuming as given what you are trying to prove. Usually a thought experiment is to show a consequence or contradiction in what we know.

Luckily, in this case, we have actual numeric data: steel loses strength as it is heated and rapidly becomes quite weak long before it reaches its melting point. Blacksmiths have known this for a long time. Metallurgists have published numbers and curves. Yeah, I'm too lazy to look one up. Besides, Popular Mechanics and others have been over this before.
Posted by: SteveS   2007-08-27 13:11  

#20  Proof that liberalism is a religion.

Also a mental disorder.
Posted by: JohnQC   2007-08-27 13:10  

#19  "I suggest you genocide us."

Nope, the Islamists have called dibs already.


Posted by: E. Brown   2007-08-27 12:50  

#18  Mr Katsaris has conveniently forgotten the genocide against Chritisn Timorese, the failed one against Jews, the silent genocide against pakistanese Hindus, the genocide in South Sudan (Muslim vesrsus Christain).

That is just from the top my head.

Also his mom would be highly displeased iif she heard he has forgotten about the genocide against the Pontus Greeks (around 1995).
Posted by: JFM   2007-08-27 12:48  

#17   I have a thought experiemtn for those who swallow the "jet fuel doesn't melt steel" story. I've not tested it, myself, but am pretty sure it'd work.


Also there was aluminum fire from the planes. Aluminum fires get much hotter than fuel ones and they decompose water so shedding water (like from the automatic sprinklers in the twowers) over them actually increases the fire (and in addition you get hydrogen fire)

Posted by: JFM   2007-08-27 12:39  

#16  Poor Fiskie - gotta live up to his name which will long be synonymous writing so incoherent that there really isn't one point that can debated by rational minded folks. As a result, it's not possible to debate the argument at hand, but rather you have to disect his random, unrelated thoughts, line by line.

And of course the incoherent thinking that the story behind your graphic photo tells so well.

Seriously, I think the way Fisk writes is that he gets drunk and then comes up with an outrageous title. Then he writes an intro, randomly hits a bunch of his talking points macro keys and then writes a conclusion which he claims makes his point.

He must work hard to be so stupid.
Posted by: Unutle McGurque8861   2007-08-27 12:36  

#15  Hey, Aris. Aren't you supposed to be fighting those fires you set?
Posted by: Jack is Back!   2007-08-27 12:30  

#14  Ah, the return of the Greek bureau-fascist!

It must be Fall, with its bright promise of a EU-boot smashing into human faces forever.
Posted by: Kofi Angesing9353   2007-08-27 12:14  

#13  "but there were lots and lots of grassroots reports of everyday Moderate Muslims noisily and publically manifesting their joy and contentment here in France right after 9/11;"

Lots of manifestations of joy from anti-American Christians here in Greece as well, I suggest you genocide us.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2007-08-27 12:11  

#12  "I still cling to the hope that a Muslim genocide will not be necessary."

Instead of talking about future potential genocides, why not talk about the three genocides against Muslims that have already occured (or are still occuring) in recent decades?

- Bosnian Muslims by the Serbs
- the Chechen genocide by the Russians
- the Darfur genocide by other Muslims.

And as for genocide against Christians... I guess we have to go all the way back to the Armenian genocide by the Turks? Anything more recent than 80 years ago?

Two of these were committed by Eastern Orthodox, so at this point I'm much more likely to consider a genocide of the Eastern Orthodox to be "necessary", than I am to consider a genocide of Muslims. Sorry, mom, sorry dad, you need to be genocided to ensure Orthodox fanaticism won't cause murder and mayhem in the Balkans or Caucasus anymore; the hundreds thousands of deaths that it caused against a different religion -- dozens times more deaths than Muslims have caused against Christians through all their suicide bombings and hijackings put together.

Since muslim crimes and murders primarily occur against fellow muslims (i.e. Darfur) I wonder what the "necessity" you speak of is actually about. Is this a "We must kill them all quickly, or they will kill themselves and deprive us of the pleasure?"

Or if Muslim-on-Muslim crimes are also to be counted as part of the supposedly unique barbarism of Islam, why not also count the Christian-on-Christian killings in Rwanda? Very few muslims in Rwanda I believe, didn't stop them from butchering each other though.

Given all the above pesky little facts, I doubt that the "necessity" you speak of represents anything by a desire fed by an extremely selective view of world affairs.

PS -- Armenia was supported by Iran in her was against the muslims of Azerbaijan. So when Armenian fanatics speak about their desire to kill muslims it's not the actual Islamofascist regimes that support terrorism they have in mind -- they are the *allies* of those regimes.

The ones they have in mind are the secular pro-West muslims of Azerbaijan.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2007-08-27 12:09  

#11  Victor Davis Hanson, after quoting Ben Laden and then Fisk, comments:

Two observations come to mind.

First, we know why there is now a colloquial verb in English "to fisk."

Second, The "Even I" of Fisk's title should read "Especially I."

These are sad times in the West, but the inevitable wages of a quarter-century of elite postmodern thought.
Posted by: Sherry   2007-08-27 11:08  

#10  I have a thought experiemtn for those who swallow the "jet fuel doesn't melt steel" story. I've not tested it, myself, but am pretty sure it'd work.

Get a piece of steel piano wire, and hold it comfortably in a pair of pliers ('cuz it's about to get hot). With your second hand, hold a cigarette lighter under the wire until it gets red hot. Does it melt? No. Bt I'll bet you a dollar it will bend under its own weight, right where you got it red hot.

Second thought experiment: Does charcoal melt steel? No? Not in your barbaque, anyway. But coal/coke/charcoal was used to make (molten) steel throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, and to make other metals (bronze, silver, gold, et al) for centuries prior to that.
Posted by: Bobby   2007-08-27 10:42  

#9  Proof that liberalism is a religion. You must believe it, never mind the proof.
Posted by: DarthVader   2007-08-27 10:24  

#8  Even I Question...

And I question whether there is a lower bound to the idiocy of these chumps. When Popular Mechanics brutally debunks your conspiracy theories, you know you suck. (no slur on PM. they did a most expert job)
Posted by: SteveS   2007-08-27 10:22  

#7  Zenster: It is worth repeating that islam is not a race and consequently no genocide can be perpetuated against it. A public hygiene measure against a meme-plague is another matter.
Posted by: Excalibur   2007-08-27 10:17  

#6  Wow. Even Fiskie questions the "truth".
Can ya beat that...
Posted by: tu3031   2007-08-27 08:48  

#5  ...Because no one wants to do the paperwork associated with disposing of toxic waste?
Posted by: Procopius2k   2007-08-27 07:10  

#4  I don't understand how this piece of s..t is still around generating CO2.
Posted by: JFM   2007-08-27 06:35  

#3  NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON I ENCOUNTERED DURING MY TWO-WEEK STAY IN ARMENIA'S CAPITAL EVER QUESTIONED ME AS TO ANY FALSIFICATION OF MUSLIM INVOLVEMENT IN THE 9-11 ATROCITY.

That was reported only by one newspaper (as noted by JF Revel in his book on anti-americanism), but there were lots and lots of grassroots reports of everyday Moderate Muslims noisily and publically manifesting their joy and contentment here in France right after 9/11; W from MIF reported how he personally saw a young muslim kids celebrating in the street. And there were similar reports out of the UK and Belgium IIRC, so it was not an isolated, fren ch phenomenon, not all.
So, from the very, very beginning, even in muslims living in the West's mind, there was NO doubt whatsoever than muslims did it. They took it as a great muslim achievement, with pride and celebration, and already saw the USA as an ennemy to be hurt and defeated, before the WOT that has supposely alienated them even started.

That's why muslim conspiracy theories are so funny, because they can both be proud of the "magnificent 19"'s achievement and victory against the Great Satan, and simultaneously pose as victims and claim they were framed by the jooooooooos/neocons and are the ones to be pitied here. That's what non cartesian, non western mindsets can do.

As for western conspiracy theorists, basically, they follow the old soviet propaganda warfare's strategic aim, demoralizing the West by claiming its real ennemies are its leader. I don't know if they're just willing participants doing that for fun and profit (think alex jones' DVDs) because they've been programmed that way, or if there is an hidden hand behind it; here in Rb, and elsewhere, there were exposes of the orgs behind the european 2003 "antiwar" demonstrations, and all over Europe, it was the usual suspects; commies may be dead in Europe from an electoral point of view, but their networks and levers in society are still intact, and they still hates and plot.
Posted by: anonymous5089   2007-08-27 03:09  

#2  and in Yerevan

Hoo boy, RICH, totally rich.

I was in Yerevan just a few short weeks after the 9-11 atrocity.

NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON I ENCOUNTERED DURING MY TWO-WEEK STAY IN ARMENIA'S CAPITAL EVER QUESTIONED ME AS TO ANY FALSIFICATION OF MUSLIM INVOLVEMENT IN THE 9-11 ATROCITY.

In fact, I have had to spend time attempting to persuade my Central Asian and Middle Eastern Christian friends that they should not—contrary to everything they have told me—militate towards complete and total annihilation of all Muslims on earth.

Imagine my own humiliation in having to eventually admit that I was wrong in opposing their unanimous advocacy of wiping out all Muslims on earth.

I still cling to the hope that a Muslim genocide will not be necessary. Little evidence presents itself towards proving that such an event will not occur.
Posted by: Zenster   2007-08-27 02:34  

#1  Usually, I have tried to tell the "truth"; that while there are unanswered questions about 9/11, ...

What questions are those Bob? Any question about who did it? Any question as to why?


Here are questions about 9/11 I find worth asking to oneself.
Posted by: anonymous5089   2007-08-27 02:29  

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