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Israel-Palestine-Jordan
Israel Strikes Back
2007-09-12
Moved to Wednesday, 9/12, for further commentary. AoS.
A little over a year after its war with Hizballah, Israel has apparently struck at weapons intended for the group, and Syrian military facilities used to support the delivery process.

Both CNN and the Jerusalem Post are reporting that last week's raid went far beyond an "accidental incursion" in Syrian airspace, as the event was originally described. Damascus claimed that its air defenses fired on Israeli fighters which entered northern Syria last Thursday. Spokesman for the Israeli Defense Forces have refused comment on the original report and on the details that have emerged in recent days.

"...Sources told CNN the military operation, which happened Wednesday into Thursday, may have also involved Israeli ground forces who directed the airstrike which "left a big hole in the desert" in Syria.

The strike may have targeted Hezbollah weapons coming into Syria or transiting through the country from Iran - a pattern over the past three or four years which has occurred without any retaliation or action taken against it - the sources said.

The Israeli government is very happy with the success of the operation, the sources said.
The Israeli government is very happy with the success of the operation, the sources said.

The Post has a copy of the graphic which shows the Syrian version of events, depicting a flight path that took Israeli jets across northern Lebanon and Syria before striking targets near the Iraqi border.








If that version of events is accurate, then Damascus should find it very disturbing, for a variety of reasons. First, take a look at this graphic, depicting operational Syrian Air Force bases (courtesy of the Dutch aviation magazine Scramble, a superb on-line resource).












If you believe the Syrian foreign minister, then the Israelis flew through the heart of his nation's air defenses - apparently undetected - to strike at targets near the country's eastern border. And it wouldn't be the first time that the IAF has accomplished such a feat; in 2003, Israeli jets struck a Palestinian terrorist complex near Damascus, taking advantage of confusion within the Syrian air defense system to bomb the target and escape, with no reaction from fighters or ground-based air defenses. The success of this particular raid suggests that despite a reported shake-up of the Syria's air defense organization, the system remains incapable of defeating an Israeli attack.

... it's quite possible that the helicopters (and commando elements) staged from a "foreign" base
And, making matters worse, the IDF raid apparently included a ground attack, featuring commandos that were (presumably) ferried in by helicopter. While IAF CH-53 Sea Stallions have the range (540 NM) to reach distant targets, getting the chopper(s) and the commandos in and out of enemy territory was indeed an impressive feat. Apparently, the Syrians fared no better against the heliborne element of the mission than they did against the IAF jets. However, given the location of the target area -and initial Syrian comments about Israeli aircraft "coming out of Turkey" - it's quite possible that the helicopters (and commando elements) staged from a "foreign" base.

As for their mission, some analysts might suggest that the Israeli ground teams were dispatched to "designate" the target for precision weapons dropped by Israeli fighters. But with all IAF F-16 and F-15I squadrons now JDAM capable, the need for laser designation has decreased. More than likely, the IDF commandos were on the ground for a secondary demolition mission, or (more likely) to kill or capture high-value assets.

In its coverage of the event, Time magazine suggests that the Israeli raid might be connected to the acquisition of Russian-made Pantsyr-1 air defense systems by Syria and Iran. Damascus took initial deliveries of the system in August, and Iranian crews are likely training on the Pantsyr as well. But the destruction of an air defense training site wouldn't account for that "big hole" in the desert. The attack was apparently concentrated in an area that's not far from known Syrian surface-to-surface missile facilities. Given the scope of the damage inflicted - and the apparent size of the Israeli strike force - we're guessing that the attack was aimed at more than air defense equipment.

In any case, it looks like Hizballah's order-of-battle will be missing a few items, at least temporarily. The raid was also a wake-up call for Damascus and Tehran, reminding them that the IDF can reach remote targets with air and ground forces. And finally, the strike illustrates that "Syrian Air Defense" is still an oxymoron, no matter how much hardware they buy from the Russians, or anyone else.
Posted by:lotp

#32  I wonder how many dead generals funerals are being planned in Syria tonight?

You can bet that in the very near future some of Syria's top brass for Air Defense are going to suffer "Adult Sudden Death Syndrome".
Posted by: Zenster   2007-09-12 23:11  

#31  Look for an increase in Russian contract-personnel and air cargo flights.

Might also be a good time to boost surveillance of Suez canal and the Gibraltar/Dardanelles straits.

Posted by: Pappy   2007-09-12 20:48  

#30  ...and a Syrian response.

"We think the Israeli purpose behind such an aggressive act is to torpedo the peace process, to torpedo the idea of holding an international conference," Syrian Ambassador Bashar Ja'afari told reporters.

Asked about Hezbollah's weapons, Ja'afari said, "This is blah, blah. This is nonsense, this is an unfounded statement. It is not up to the Israelis or anyone else to assess what we have in Syria."

"There was no target," he added. "They dropped their munitions. They were running away after they were confronted by our air defense."


I wonder how many dead generals funerals are being planned in Syria tonight?
Posted by: tu3031   2007-09-12 20:43  

#29  Sour grapes on the part of the Syrians; they got caught with their pants down, importing Nork nuclear components and or Iranian missiles! A Second 'Osirak strike' for Israel, and through the heart of Syrian defenses...most impressive!!
Posted by: smn   2007-09-12 19:48  

#28  Israel Strikes Back

I would be guessing... my guess is the missle plant provided by Iran and/or the new stuff provided by Russia or both.

OP, "I wonder if Israel hit some buried Iraqi WMDs."

..interesting thought... perhaps along with the/a Syrian WMD bio/chem manufacturing site.
Posted by: Red Dawg   2007-09-12 16:58  

#27  Some comments on the comments:

We KNOW the Syrians have at least three SA-5 sites. One is in Homs, one is in Aleppo, and the other one is near Damascus. The SA-5 is a strategic weapon that was developed to counter the B-70 Valkyrie and the SR-71. They have very good radars. We know the Syrians also have SA-3 point defense systems, SA-6 mobile SAM systems, and a few SA-8 and SA-11 (improved SA-6) systems. They also have multiple batteries of radar-controlled AAA batteries, and dozens of mobile systems. The Pansyr system is new to me, at least by that name, but I think I know which one it is. The air defense threat from Syria is NOT minimal, yet if the graphic is correct, the Israelis completely stumped them. That's not something to sneeze about. I'm sure the Russians are in need of a change of underware, as well as the Iranians and Syrians. Hezbollah may be quaking in their boots, as well. As for WHERE they struck, I wonder if Israel hit some buried Iraqi WMDs.
Posted by: Old Patriot   2007-09-12 16:20  

#26  your technology is only as effective as the people trained to use it
Posted by: Ebbort de Medici7567   2007-09-12 16:09  

#25  Re: Airborne refueling: all it takes is a C-130 with a drogue style package ( think USNavy, not USAF) and therequisite boom on the aircraft; no need to set up a gound station.
re: big hole: has anyone done the Google Earth-thing? i am ignorant on making that work with anysort of reliable results. i fall into the 'even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while' category.
Posted by: USN, Ret.   2007-09-12 14:06  

#24  #23 I wonder if Israeli helicopters have aerial refueling capability. If they do, then no place in the Middle East is safe.

Aerial refueling is great, but it you've got a cow bird along and enough time to set down and establish a Forward Area Refuel Point (FARP) en route, you're golden.

Posted by: Besoeker   2007-09-12 12:51  

#23  I wonder if Israeli helicopters have aerial refueling capability. If they do, then no place in the Middle East is safe.

Al
Posted by: Frozen Al   2007-09-12 11:36  

#22  Did anyone check the site for radioactivity? The latest posting about NK selling Syria and Iran nukes would give good reason for a big hole in the desert.
Posted by: Danielle   2007-09-12 11:28  

#21  The raid was also a wake-up call for Damascus and Tehran, reminding them that the IDF can reach remote targets with air and ground forces.

Lets hope its also a wake-up call to W and the DoD that its possible and achievable to use a pre-emptive strike including SOF on Tehran and Pakistan/NFP/Waziristan. Me thinks that the IDF was a bogie in all this and we just wanted to gauge the Syrian AD reaction. I would think Iranian AD can't be that much better if they are also just now coming into new systems from the Ruskies.
Posted by: Jack is Back!   2007-09-12 11:05  

#20  Oopsies: Just looked at the calender

Since August, 2006.

The Israelis are back.
Posted by: badanov   2007-09-12 06:41  

#19  Best news about Israel since last summer.
Posted by: badanov   2007-09-12 06:40  

#18  A simple short-range training mission, but a handy dent placed in warstocks migrating into Iraq nonetheless. Future targets lie much, much further to the east. Thank you Syria! We greatly appreciate the radar signature reference points.
Posted by: Besoeker   2007-09-12 04:59  

#17  Wondering how Israelis knew precisely where to hit... There were some Israeli mil satellites launched recently, weren't they? Or wuzit local recon?
Posted by: twobyfour   2007-09-12 03:31  

#16  Might they have snagged one of the new Russia missiles for evaluation? If they blew the rest of it to kingdom come, who'd know?
Posted by: gorb   2007-09-12 03:01  

#15  Maybe a snatch followed by a bunker-buster?

Nobody looks for vaporized Iranian brass.
Posted by: mojo   2007-09-12 00:37  

#14  Any bets there are not more than a few Hebrew speaking "Arabic translators' working in Iraq? Maybe a few who wandered off (wink wink...)across the border?
Posted by: Skunky Glins5285   2007-09-11 20:20  

#13  It would take the syrians 30 years to understand a force protection multiplier. Therefore, it is a good idea for them to decide to not test this because we already know you are way in over your head anyway, syria.
Posted by: newc   2007-09-11 20:02  

#12  If that map is right, the target was darn near in howitzer range of our forces in Iraq. And easy helicopter range. I think 'moose is onto something - even if he is directionally challenged. If that was the true target, and heliborne forces were involved, then they weren't speaking Hebrew.
Posted by: Glenmore   2007-09-11 19:05  

#11  You sure they told him ahead of time?
Posted by: lotp   2007-09-11 17:28  

#10  The most astounding thing about this operation is that Olmert would allow it.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble   2007-09-11 17:24  

#9  shhhhh 'Moose. ;-)
Posted by: lotp   2007-09-11 17:20  

#8  There may be an awful lot of disinformation going on. For example, if planes flew East across northern Syria, it would have lit up their radar like a Christmas tree, so that is where their radar would have been pointed.

But what if they sent in fast aircraft to do just this, *while at the same time*, a much larger aircraft flew into Syrian from the West?

That is, say a C-130 carrying a bunker buster?

In other words, why would the Syrians have a major Command and Control bunker near the Euphrates river across the border from Iraq?
Posted by: Anonymoose   2007-09-11 17:03  

#7  Israel can end you whenever it wants too.

Well, there's no time like the present.
Posted by: mcsegeek1   2007-09-11 17:00  

#6  PS: One can only hope that Iran has taken note of this unopposed incursion against the same crappy hardware that the mullahs bought from Putin.
Posted by: Zenster   2007-09-11 16:50  

#5  Apparently, the Syrians fared no better against the heliborne element of the mission than they did against the IAF jets.

A splendid hint of what awaits further Syrian facilitation of Hezbollah. All that expensive Russian hardware was for shit up against some real warriors. There is absolutely no irony in the fact of how democratic, non-Islamic Israel has developed technology and trained a fighting force that can take apart surrounding Islamic militaries like a brat plucking the wings off of a fly.
Posted by: Zenster   2007-09-11 16:47  

#4  The fear uncertainty and doubt the rumor would generate would be delicious, but there is no way we could really allow it to happen. No way it would be kept secret from the iraqi people that we were letting the joooos use their territory to stage attacks on fellow muzz. More trouble than it would be worth. 'Course, if the fighters had US markings...
Posted by: M. Murcek   2007-09-11 16:43  

#3  Just beautiful. The IAF is still a very effective force.

Just go poop yourself Zippy. Israel can end you whenever it wants too.
Posted by: DarthVader   2007-09-11 16:41  

#2  It would be interesting to think, ponder, or spread the rumor, that an Israeli squadron continued into Iraq so the next time they can really baffle the Syrian air defences.
Posted by: rjschwarz   2007-09-11 16:27  

#1  So it looks like they flew all the way across Syria, hit their targets, and flew all the way back across Syria. And Syria could do nothing about it?

heh heh heh... Change of underwear time there, Zippy?
Posted by: tu3031   2007-09-11 16:23  

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