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| Britain |
| MI 5 speaks out about that which must be unnamed |
| 2007-11-07 |
| But before we look at the violent manifestation of that threat in the UK, we need to remember where this comes from. The violence directed against us is the product of a much wider extremist ideology, whose basic tenets are inimical to the tolerance and liberty which form the basis of our democracy. So although the most visible manifestations of this problem are the attacks and attempted attacks we have suffered in recent years, the root of the problem is ideological. And the more that this ideology spreads in our communities, the harder it will be to maintain the kind of society that the vast majority of us wish to live in. And it is important that we recognise an uncomfortable truth: terrorist attacks we have seen against the UK are not simply random plots by disparate and fragmented groups. The majority of these attacks, successful or otherwise, have taken place because Al Qaida has a clear determination to mount terrorist attacks against the United Kingdom. It is the expression of a hostility towards the UK which existed long before September 11, 2001. It is evident in the wills and letters left behind by actual and would-be bombers. And it regularly forms part of Al Qaida's broadcast messages. As a country, we are rightly concerned to protect children from exploitation in other areas. We need to do the same in relation to violent extremism. As I speak, terrorists are methodically and intentionally targeting young people and children in this country. They are radicalising, indoctrinating and grooming young, vulnerable people to carry out acts of terrorism. This year, we have seen individuals as young as 15 and 16 implicated in terrorist-related activity. Over the last five years much of the command, control and inspiration for attack planning in the UK has derived from Al Qaida's remaining core leadership in the tribal areas of Pakistan - often using young British citizens to mount the actual attack. But worryingly, we have more recently seen similar processes emerging elsewhere. Looking at the plots themselves, we now see different levels of sophistication. Yes, we have seen unsophisticated attempts to kill and injure, but we have also seen complex, logistically effective plots, which require a high degree of expertise and accurate targeting. We have to pay equal attention to both the crude and the complex. Because the primitive can be just as deadly as the sophisticated. And the prognosis for the medium term? I do not think that this problem has yet reached its peak. And here is an important point. We know that the strategic thinking of our enemies is long-term. But public discourse in the UK works to a much shorter timescale whether the electoral cycle or the media deadline. We cannot view this challenge in such timescales. If we only react tactically while our enemies plan strategically, we shall be hard put to win this. A key part of our strategy must be perseverance. So the deeper we investigate, the more we know about the networks. And the more we know, the greater the likelihood that, when an attack or attempted attack does occur, my Service will have some information on at least one of the perpetrators. And in a sense this is a benefit. Why? First, because it means we can move more swiftly from intelligence to arrests. It means we can provide an informed assessment for the police, emergency services and Government, of the context of an attack, the likely depth of the conspiracy, and most importantly, the potential leads to follow to ensure that culprits can be arrested. And second, it demonstrates how the counter-terrorist net that the British intelligence community and our liaison partners have strung across the globe is working. But we cannot know everything. There will be instances when individuals come to the notice of the Security Service or the police but then subsequently carry out acts of terrorism. This is inevitable. Every decision to investigate someone entails a decision not to investigate someone else. Knowing of somebody is not the same as knowing all about somebody. And it would be perverse for my Service to avoid knowing of somebody for fear of being held to blame if they later become involved in an attack. I think we should be very careful to bear this in mind when talking about so-called 'intelligence failures.' |
| Posted by:Nimble Spemble |
| #26 KOMMERSANT > RUSSIA, CHINA DISTRACT LONDON FRON FIGHTING TERRORISM. There has been NO DECREASE, since the end of the Cold War, IN THE NUMBER OF UNDECLARED RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE OFFICERS/ OPERATIVES OPERATING INSIDE THE UK, either via Russ Embassy andor associated organizations. |
| Posted by: JosephMendiola 2007-11-07 22:20 |
| #25 "Darrell" is my real name, Shirt. If I may call you Shirt, Mr. Ruthless7415. And it was Fred and Ethyl Mertz, not Fred and Myrtle Mertz. You can call me whatever you want Sparky. The nym is courtesy of Fred's random name generator, it amuses me. And I knew what NS meant, I just had better manners than to correct him. You, on the other hand... |
| Posted by: Shirt the Ruthless7415 2007-11-07 22:02 |
| #24 Sorry Ethel. Didn't realize your octane was so high. |
| Posted by: Nimble Spemble 2007-11-07 21:40 |
| #23 LUCIANNE > MI5 - 4000 Islamists in Britain; + WAFF.com > WORLDPOLITICSREVIEW [10/30/2007]- ISLAMIST MOVEMENTS AND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. WPR article - Osama + AQ very likely already possess enuff nucmats and expertise for making a nuke bomb espec "dirty bomb", but so far hasn't due to various factors, including (1) AQ desires to work on a more potent advanced bomb; (2)"first-strike"/surpise use of a bomb will harm AQ's large following in the Muslim world, i.e. endanger its "host" nation sponsors and hence affect its ability to locally-regionally support itself, and (3) deterrence, i.e US/anti-Islamist fear of AQ-specific nuke retaliation vv Terror. Probably also add AQ's desire to dominate any and all other Islamist groups or orgs = CONTROL THE ISLAMIST GLOBAL AGENDA AS AQ [article]IS A GLOBAL ISLAMIST ORG. Amers should bear in mind that while Radical Islam + Islamic World are "weak", LOW-YIELD = MICRO/NANO-NUKE AND WMD DEVICES ARE WELL SUITED TO CHAOS-CENTRIC, MEDIA- AND PCORRECT AGENDAS OF ISLAMISTS AND TERRORISTS, etc. IT IS INSENSIBLE FOR ANYONE TO BELIEVE THAT RADICAL ISLAM WANTS ONLY COLD WAR-STYLE BIG MISSLES + BIG WARHEADS, but NOT man-portable or easily transportable small ones. |
| Posted by: JosephMendiola 2007-11-07 21:33 |
| #22 "Darrell" is my real name, Shirt. If I may call you Shirt, Mr. Ruthless7415. And it was Fred and Ethyl Mertz, not Fred and Myrtle Mertz. |
| Posted by: Darrell 2007-11-07 21:27 |
| #21 I've been here for years. You, however, seem to either have just arrived today or be hiding behind a new name. Well Darrell, I've been stopping by off and on for years...myself. Never cared much about commenting, preferring to observe mostly. Never noticed you, and a quick check reveals you only started posting in 2005. Or, maybe you're hiding behind a new name. I admit, after looking at the Google cache of your comments, there is a certain flavor that reminds one of a particular Rantburg poster from the past. But I don't care to speculate without more research. |
| Posted by: Shirt the Ruthless7415 2007-11-07 20:46 |
| #20 Actually, Shirt, I'm still around and I do comment on threads that Mullah Zenster doesn't as well. I just like to call him on it every time he goes genocidal or starts deporting citizens who are supposed to have the same constitutional rights he does. I've been here for years. You, however, seem to either have just arrived today or be hiding behind a new name. |
| Posted by: Darrell 2007-11-07 19:55 |
| #19 But it is an interesting divide in America; when you think of something being Green do you think of enviro-nazis, islamo-nazis or vegan-azis? Yes. |
| Posted by: Shirt the Ruthless7415 2007-11-07 18:15 |
| #18 Reminds me of Fred and Myrtle. Mertz? You owe me a monitor! ;-) |
| Posted by: Shirt the Ruthless7415 2007-11-07 18:14 |
| #17 NBC changed their logo to green because of GW (Global Warming) as opposed to GWOT (Global War on Terror). But it is an interesting divide in America; when you think of something being Green do you think of enviro-nazis, islamo-nazis or vegan-azis? |
| Posted by: Nimble Spemble 2007-11-07 17:49 |
| #16 Zenster and Darrell are spatting. Reminds me of Fred and Myrtle. |
| Posted by: Nimble Spemble 2007-11-07 17:43 |
| #15 You can dress up Himmler in a yarmulke and he'd still be Himmler, with a funny hat. It's the ideology, not the outward appearance. O ye who believe! fight such of the disbelievers as are near to you and let them find hardness in you; and know that ALLAH is with the righteous. |
| Posted by: ed 2007-11-07 17:30 |
| #14 Not for nothing has NBC turned its logo from the rainbow promised Noah to green. Very interesting! I had not noticed that until you called it out. Of course, I rarely watch TeeVee, so I am not too surprised. But interesting none the less. Am I imagining things, or does this Darrell fellow just show up, snipe at folks and then skedaddle? |
| Posted by: Shirt the Ruthless7415 2007-11-07 17:28 |
| #13 fact is, if you deported a handful of ideologues, youd protect the rest from being influenced. No, that would only prevent them from being influenced live. They'd still get to see the DVDs mailed in to the jv squad to be pounded into their heads of mush repeatedly. The way to really protect the rest from being influenced is to make them Americans (or Brits, or Ozzies, or Canucks, or Kiwis) first and last. The subversive "ideology" they are being indoctrinated with should be attacked directly, daily and in public by government officials at all levels including and especially public schools. We should fight this ideology far more actively than we did communism because it is far more insidious and far more effective. Not for nothing has NBC turned its logo from the rainbow promised Noah to green. It is time for an end to multi-culturalism. Get rid of dual citizenship. Get rid of whatever-American. If you want to be an American, then swear to absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which they have heretofore been a subject or citizen. And then accept them as Americans with the same rights as everybody else. If they wear funny clothes, other children should mock their dress and give them directions to Pennsylvania Dutch country. If they mutilate their daughters, they should be tried for the perverts they are. If they beat their wives, put them in the slammer. If they want to live their lives in peace and let others do likewise, then let them alone. I agree with Old Patriot. It is unbelievable how the problem can be so clearly understood and a plan of action be so etherial. |
| Posted by: Nimble Spemble 2007-11-07 16:51 |
| #12 No sorting needed. That's the point, let them ALL enjoy the Shari'a goodness so many of them clamor for. Le bingo, Shirt. Muslims must learn to be very cafeful what they wish for. Even the educated and U.S. citizens amongst them. It would be nice if Liberahawk was right. I'm willing to start with just the non-naturalized immigrants. Should America's naturalized Muslim population indulge in some sort of terrorist atrocity or another, then they can have the choice of internment or deportation. In reality, the "handful of ideologues" that really matter are several dozen of Islam's top clerical, academic and financial elite being sheltered overseas. Killing them would go a lot farther towards protecting "the rest from being influenced". All these other nasty, icky and yukky not-nice measures might prove totally unnecessary if we had the courage to finally declare war on Islam's top brass. Either way, they must die. Be it by a sniper's bullet, a cruise missile or an ICBM is something that our own reluctance to act will most likely determine. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2007-11-07 16:41 |
| #11 Pretty easy to sort. 1. Are Christians and Jews apes and pigs? 2. Should sharia be the law of the land and the koran final arbiter? 3. Do you hate the infidels as the koran commands? On second thought, no sorting is needed. |
| Posted by: ed 2007-11-07 16:33 |
| #10 fact is, if you deported a handful of ideologues, youd protect the rest from being influenced. For now MI5 is, wisely watching several thousand, as is the FBI, Im sure. |
| Posted by: Liberalhawk 2007-11-07 16:19 |
| #9 Darrell, are as professional as the Glasgow airport bombers ? Oh, you forgot those doctors who took an infidel oath to 'do no harm'. There are no good muzzies, there are only those who have been ignoring their primary duty to jihad. |
| Posted by: wxjames 2007-11-07 16:06 |
| #8 How you propose to do your sorting? No sorting needed. That's the point, let them ALL enjoy the Shari'a goodness so many of them clamor for. Even the educated and U.S. citizens amongst them. After all, don't most consider themselves Muslim first? Well then, let them be all the Muslim they can be. |
| Posted by: Shirt the Ruthless7415 2007-11-07 15:57 |
| #7 That's my point: Mullah Zenster won't sort "this world's expatriate Muslim population" at all. |
| Posted by: Darrell 2007-11-07 14:41 |
| #6 Oh, come on, darrell, they pretty much sort themselves. The "professional" ones you "know" don't have beards down to the waist, turbans and djebellahs. No they're probably well groomed and probably neatly attired. Again, they pretty much sort themselves... |
| Posted by: M. Murcek 2007-11-07 14:34 |
| #5 "healthy dose of reverse immigration yada yada undesirables yada yada recongregated yada yada we start offing yada yada" Thank you Mullah Zenster. Oddly, the Muslims I know are all professional people with western educations. The majority are already U.S. citizens. One would probably qualify for political asylum. How you propose to do your sorting? You do have a PLAN for that, don't you? |
| Posted by: Darrell 2007-11-07 14:17 |
| #4 This crap ain't gonna end until a healthy dose of reverse immigration happens. The MME (Muslim Middle East) has been exporting its surplus population and undesirables for many decades. They need to be recongregated in their countries of origin so that all of them can experience the joy and utopic bliss that is the shari'a law adored so widely by Muslims. Only when the vast majority of Muslims are being crushed beneath the boot heel of shari'a law will they begin to realize what an exceptionally bad choice of creeds they have made. So long as shari'a law is merely something happening to some nameless folks back in the good-old homeland, Muslims simply will not alter their views. Once they must confront on a daily basis the brutality and repression that shari'a epitomizes, maybe then they will begin killing their puritanical clerical elite. Either we start offing Islam's clerical, academic and financial aristocracy or we give this world's expatriate Muslim population an opportunity to reunite with their homeland brethern for an intimate encounter session with the shari'a law that they continue to so fervently wish for. We must answer their prayers for them. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2007-11-07 13:24 |
| #3 Here come da muzz, here come da muzz, disorder in London coz here come da muzz... |
| Posted by: M. Murcek 2007-11-07 13:03 |
| #2 Lots of good analysis of what exists, but poor response. The best response is to expel anyone who preaches hate, to force all muslims to attend British schools, and to cut the multiculti crap that not only doesn't work, but effectively undermines Western civilization. Publicly hanging a few of the bas$$$$$ now and then would also help. |
| Posted by: Old Patriot 2007-11-07 12:51 |
| #1 Are they Irish? Are they Vikings? Then it must be the Huns, correct? No! Well, give us a clue will ya. Who the hell are they? Are they Islamic fascists? What do you mean I can't say that. You're what? You're going to charge me with hateful speech? |
| Posted by: Jack is Back! 2007-11-07 11:48 |