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| China-Japan-Koreas |
| Chinese sub pops up in the midst of USS Kitty Hawk CBG |
| 2007-11-10 |
| American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board. By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier. According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation in the U.S. Navy. The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a threat. One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age. The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon. The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile aircraft or submarines. And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it. According to the Nato source, the encounter has forced a serious re-think of American and Nato naval strategy as commanders reconsider the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines. It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S. fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as coincidence. Analysts believe Beijing was sending a message to America and the West demonstrating its rapidly-growing military capability to threaten foreign powers which try to interfere in its "backyard". The People's Liberation Army Navy's submarine fleet includes at least two nuclear-missile launching vessels. Its 13 Song Class submarines are extremely quiet and difficult to detect when running on electric motors. Commodore Stephen Saunders, editor of Jane's Fighting Ships, and a former Royal Navy anti-submarine specialist, said the U.S. had paid relatively little attention to this form of warfare since the end of the Cold War. He said: "It was certainly a wake-up call for the Americans. It would tie in with what we see the Chinese trying to do, which appears to be to deter the Americans from interfering or operating in their backyard, particularly in relation to Taiwan." In January China carried a successful missile test, shooting down a satellite in orbit for the first time. |
| Posted by:Seafarious |
| #14 It got the nickname 'Shitty Kitty' by the fleet because it's a lousy carrier to operate with. As far as command staff being relieved, it's no worse than the rest of the Navy. Given who was in charge at the time this occurred, I'd go with letting the Chinese sub 'play'; the escorts under orders not to engage in ASW (possible, depending on what the exercise was). |
| Posted by: Pappy 2007-11-10 22:37 |
| #13 Don't suspect the best. I have been hearing for a while that the Kitty Hawk is close being regarded as the Jonah of the fleet. Its command staff are far more frequently relieved than is typical, and its nickname is "Shitty Hawk". I also suspect that, to make matters worse, nobody wants to be the "last crew" of the Kitty Hawk before its scheduled retirement in 2008, for fear of that one last disaster that could take it to the bottom with all hands. That level of superstition can be dangerous in and of itself. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2007-11-10 20:34 |
| #12 Crosspatch makes a point I was wondering about - why did they surface? Mechanical problems? The aforementioned hand grenade? Defection Red October style? Lead poisoning from cheap made-in-china manufactured goods? Inquiring minds... |
| Posted by: SteveS 2007-11-10 18:41 |
| #11 Just to play Devil's advocate: Obviously they promoted him to make the Chinese think that their sub had been detected even though it really wasn't . . . . :-) |
| Posted by: gorb 2007-11-10 18:20 |
| #10 A submarine doesn't surface in the middle of someone else's exercise unless it has to. That sub was FORCED to the surface, probably by incessant "pinging" from sonar to MAKE it surface. A sub breaking the surface within eyesight of our escort ships means the captain of the sub was humiliated somehow. There are other ways for a sub to play the "I got within your defense picket" game such as taking a picture through the periscope and sending that to the US mission's military liason once the boat gets back to China. |
| Posted by: crosspatch 2007-11-10 18:17 |
| #9 Steve has a plausible theory there. It's not likely that a commander would be advanced if he screwed up this badly. However if he paved the way to track the ChiCom subs then that would be a VERY big feather in their cap indeed. |
| Posted by: Cyber Sarge 2007-11-10 17:28 |
| #8 I notice the Daily Mail seems averse to giving us a date on the incident. Recent? It took me about two minutes to find out it was October 2006. I wonder why that is? |
| Posted by: tu3031 2007-11-10 15:44 |
| #7 Hopefully so, Frank G. Or he may have been promoted out of harm's way. To do otherwise might have looked like he had failed in his mission... best to keep the ChiComs guessing. |
| Posted by: Excalibur 2007-11-10 14:57 |
| #6 oops - reposted without the google search link cuz it sent me to Mufflerman, sorry mods |
| Posted by: Frank G 2007-11-10 14:18 |
| #5 SteveS may be on to something there. A google search shows the Kitty Hawk Strike Force CVN63 commanding officer Capt. Ed McNamee was relieved in a scheduled(?) change of command only this May 29th...and is moving on up: "McNamee next reports to the Deputy Chief of Naval OperationsÂ’ office in Washington D.C. as head of the Air Warfare Division" he also received his third Legion of Merit medal for his two years in command.. sounds like we may not have been so surprised.... |
| Posted by: Frank G 2007-11-10 14:16 |
| #4 SteveS may be on to something there. A google search shows the Kitty Hawk Strike Force CVN63 commanding officer Capt. Ed McNamee was relieved in a scheduled(?) change of command only this May 29th...and is moving on up: "McNamee next reports to the Deputy Chief of Naval OperationsÂ’ office in Washington D.C. as head of the Air Warfare Division" he also received his third Legion of Merit medal for his two years in command.. sounds like we may not have been so surprised.... |
| Posted by: Frank G 2007-11-10 14:16 |
| #3 HAHAHAHA, those Americans sooo stupid! Or is there more to this (old) story? Maybe the Chinese boat was undetected. Or maybe not. And if they were detected, is it an advantage to keep that secret, even at the cost of looking stupid? I'm sure everyone is always following everyone else all around the ocean. We are not (officially) at war with China and there is probably some obscure maritime law against unprovoked attacks on foreign ships. So what to do when someone gets a little close? Drop an annoying active sonobuoy to let them know the game is over? Or maybe a hand grenade to scare the crap out of them? Or continue playing the game. Your guys get some real-world practice and you get to see how your opponent operates - and how well. And they are none the wiser. |
| Posted by: SteveS 2007-11-10 13:21 |
| #2 VERY old news. |
| Posted by: logi_cal 2007-11-10 13:09 |
| #1 I got the linky from Hot Air, where a commentor noted this story is at least a year old. You'll note the PacCom at the time was Admiral Fallon, who did not get fired but put in charge of CentCom instead. Feh. |
| Posted by: Seafarious 2007-11-10 12:43 |