| Submit your comments on this article |
| Home Front: Culture Wars |
| Christianity Without All That Silly 'Jesus' or 'God' Stuff |
| 2008-03-22 |
| That triumphal barnburner of an Easter hymn, Jesus Christ Has Risen Today – Hallelujah, this morning will rock the walls of Toronto's West Hill United Church as it will in most Christian churches across the country. But at West Hill on the faith's holiest day, it will be done with a huge difference. The words “Jesus Christ” will be excised from what the congregation sings and replaced with “Glorious hope.” Thus, it will be hope that is declared to be resurrected – an expression of renewal of optimism and the human spirit – but not Jesus, contrary to Christianity's central tenet about the return to life on Easter morning of the crucified divine son of God. Generally speaking, no divine anybody makes an appearance in West Hill's Sunday service liturgy. There is no authoritative Big-Godism, as Rev. Gretta Vosper, West Hill's minister for the past 10 years, puts it. No petitionary prayers (“Dear God, step into the world and do good things about global warming and the poor”). No miracles-performing magic Jesus given birth by a virgin and coming back to life. No references to salvation, Christianity's teaching of the final victory over death through belief in Jesus's death as an atonement for sin and the omnipotent love of God. For that matter, no omnipotent God, or god. Ms. Vosper has written a book, published this week – With or Without God: Why the Way We Live is More Important than What We Believe – in which she argues that the Christian church, in the form in which it exists today, has outlived its viability and either it sheds its no-longer credible myths, doctrines and dogmas, or it's toast. She is considered one of the bright, if unconventional, minds within the United Church, Canada's largest Protestant Christian denomination. She holds a master of divinity degree from Queen's University and was ordained in 1992. She founded and chairs the Toronto-based Canadian Centre for Progressive Christianity... |
| Posted by:Anonymoose |
| #27 Snark o' the day, Frank. Melikes. |
| Posted by: BA 2008-03-22 23:59 |
| #26 Kucinich will take that lead, Barb |
| Posted by: Frank G 2008-03-22 23:53 |
| #25 BA - you don't wanna protect the Munchkins? Shame on you! |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2008-03-22 23:38 |
| #24 Wow, Ice, that's a better summary than I've ever seen for liberalism....if you believe it hard enough (and click your heels 3 times), it's true crowd. By the way, it's been a while since posting, and I loved my new screen name, but I think I'll stick with the original nym (BA). That's quite some "random generator" Fred's got for naming newbies: Pheath Protector of the Munchkins4607 |
| Posted by: BA 2008-03-22 23:14 |
| #23 Now why am I thinking the majority of this church's members are liberal. The "it's true if you believe" crowd always are. |
| Posted by: Icerigger 2008-03-22 21:12 |
| #22 Rev Stang and the Stark First are far better deterrents than barratry. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2008-03-22 16:25 |
| #21 The fact that you *never hear* what happens to the people who piss off the Church of the Subgenius folks suggests that they're a lot more effective at tying up loose ends than the clam people are. |
| Posted by: Abdominal Snowman 2008-03-22 14:50 |
| #20 3dc, you're probably closer to the truth than any of them realize. They may invoke the Stark Fist of Removal if you expose them further. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2008-03-22 14:20 |
| #19 Church of the SubGenius - Eternal Salvation or Triple YOUR Money Back! $$$ |
| Posted by: 3dc 2008-03-22 14:03 |
| #18 I'm guessing maybe the glorious providence that brought forth the Honeybaked Soybean immitation Ham? Fixed it for ya.... |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2008-03-22 13:53 |
| #17 Saying of bob |
| Posted by: 3dc 2008-03-22 13:52 |
| #16 PreScriptures 35 == UCC? |
| Posted by: 3dc 2008-03-22 13:50 |
| #15 If your going to ditch all that "baggage" why not go all the way and become a slacker? Ballad of Bob Dobbs |
| Posted by: 3dc 2008-03-22 13:40 |
| #14 So if they don't believe in Christ or his resurrection - what the heck are they celebrating on Easter? Themselves, and not much else. I'd put forth that these people, and especially this "reverend" (little "r" intended), do not even believe in God, let alone Christ. They believe they are gods, individually and collectively. As Rex Mundi said above, Marx would be proud. The good reverend and her flock are not Christian, they are pagan, or neo-pagan possibly, worshiping not God or Christ, but themselves and everything "natural" and thus worship nothing. Unfortunately, they give most pagans I know a bad name. At least pagans have the guts to state up front what they worship. They're worse than pagans (not that pagans are necessarily bad). They're cultists in the Azathoth vein. |
| Posted by: FOTSGreg 2008-03-22 13:11 |
| #13 So if they don't believe in Christ or his resurrection - what the heck are they celebrating on Easter? I'm guessing maybe the glorious providence that brought forth the Honeybaked Ham? |
| Posted by: Ricky bin Ricardo (Abu Babaloo) 2008-03-22 13:03 |
| #12 United Church definitely IS the largest Protestant Christian denomination - perhaps because it requires the least amount of thought - perhaps not. /snark off |
| Posted by: Canuckistan sniper 2008-03-22 13:02 |
| #11 So if they don't believe in Christ or his resurrection - what the heck are they celebrating on Easter? |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2008-03-22 12:37 |
| #10 Maybe they mean the largest non-Christian Christian church. |
| Posted by: SteveS 2008-03-22 12:23 |
| #9 "United Church, Canada's largest Protestant Christian denomination" I doubt that. It strikes me several other denominations are larger than them. Do any Canadian Rantburgers have any data? Al |
| Posted by: Frozen Al 2008-03-22 12:10 |
| #8 I pity them more than any others. Just like Paul said. |
| Posted by: eLarson 2008-03-22 12:05 |
| #7 Umm, one sec. How can they call themselves "Christian" when they deny Christ? That pretty much covers it... |
| Posted by: M. Murcek 2008-03-22 11:58 |
| #6 "United Church, Canada's largest Protestant Christian denomination." Umm, one sec. How can they call themselves "Christian" when they deny Christ? Its not just works, you have to have faith too. It is in the Book, you know, the Bible, that all of Christianity bases itself. You have to have Faith to begin with for the works to mean anything, if you are to be a Christian. John 3:16 - Christianity in a nutshell: "God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." These people are demonstrably not Christian anymore. They belong to the "Feelgood" church, worshiping at the altar of Liberalism, and believing in the great fuzzy concept of Hope. If thats how they want to do things, then that is their choice. But the need to stop mislabeling themselves as "Christian", because doing so is a blatant lie. A bit of Theology: Faith - you DO need works for faith to mean anything. But Faith must precede and drive those works, otherwise they are meaningless as a Charistian act. 19 : Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 : But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. This is where they probably went astray - like most liberals, they picked the part they like, "works" and ignore the antecedents and pre-requisites, most notably faith in the God of Abraham (which is specifically mentioned in James 2) |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2008-03-22 11:26 |
| #5 If the Christian church, as it exists today, is no longer viable, then why are so many Muslims converting that various Muslim bigwigs have been speaking out in alarm? |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2008-03-22 11:14 |
| #4 Suffice to say, this is no longer a Christian Church. Marx would be proud. |
| Posted by: Rex Mundi 2008-03-22 11:11 |
| #3 The "God is me and I am God crowd." Tiresome self-absorbed assholes... |
| Posted by: M. Murcek 2008-03-22 11:05 |
| #2 Yawn. It's just so 1968. |
| Posted by: whitecollar redneck 2008-03-22 10:52 |
| #1 I think "Obama Barak" scans the same as "Glorious hope". Go on. We know you want to. |
| Posted by: Excalibur 2008-03-22 10:50 |