You have commented 339 times on Rantburg.

Your Name
Your e-mail (optional)
Website (optional)
My Original Nic        Pic-a-Nic        Sorry. Comments have been closed on this article.
Bold Italic Underline Strike Bullet Blockquote Small Big Link Squish Foto Photo
Submit your comments on this article
Afghanistan
US Military, Afghan President at Odds Over Airstrike Deaths
2008-08-24
Afghan President Hamid Karzai has condemned a U.S. airstrike in western Afghanistan that some Afghan officials say killed more than 70 civilians on Thursday. VOA's Barry Newhouse reports from Islamabad that the U.S. military disputes the number of civilian casualties and insists the operation was a successful strike against a wanted Taliban commander.

President Hamid Karzai's office issued a statement Saturday strongly condemning what it called a "unilateral operation of Coalition Forces" in the Shindand district of Herat Province. The statement said local political and security officials reported at least 70 people, including women and children were killed in the airstrike.

The U.S. military disputes the civilian casualty figures and says troops called for airstrikes after a group of wanted militants fired on a joint patrol of coalition and Afghan forces.

U.S. coalition spokesman, First Lieutenant Nathan Perry, told VOA the troops were able to search the compound following the battle to confirm the casualty figures. He says five civilians, who were believed to be related to the militants, were among the 30 people killed in the strike.

"There was already a battlefield assessment of this operation," said the spokesman. "We want to point out that this was an Afghan army operation. Coalition troops were in support of the Afghan operation. And after the operation, those troops on the ground were able to do a battlefield assessment. Not only did they confirm that they killed 25 militants, they also confirmed the main target that they were in pursuit of."

The spokesman said despite the initial battlefield assessment, U.S.-led coalition forces have launched an investigation into the airstrike. Afghan officials have also called for an investigation.

Civilians deaths from U.S. airstrikes are a contentious issue in Afghanistan and in recent months the Afghan government has been more assertive in publicly rebuking foreign allied forces for civilian casualties. President Karzai said Saturday that so far, Afghan efforts to stop civilian casualties have not had "desired outcomes." The president said the government will soon announce new initiatives for avoiding civilian deaths.

In the village in Herat where Thursday's airstrike occurred, hundreds of locals protested Saturday after rejecting offers of food and other aid from Afghan military troops. Local media reports said some of the protesters turned violent and soldiers fired on the crowd, injuring several people.
Posted by:GolfBravoUSMC

#22  How many Christians believe that the bible is literally the word of God, and that every word, however contradictory to other words, must by definition be equally true? How many people call themselves Christian who are neither church members nor quite certain that God exists, as a convenient label? How many keep Christmas only as a family holiday for Christmas lights and gifts, and Easter for the children to get chocolate rabbits, yet never discuss the religious reason these are holy days? For how many Jews is the Passover Seder meal the only holiday they keep, and only because Mom isn't up to cooking that meal or Thanksgiving dinner any more?

Statistically speaking, the odds are better than otherwise that there is a silent minority of those who call themselves Muslim who are unbelievers (even secret converts to other religions, mostly Christianity), uninvolved, and keeping the major holidays only when they go to visit their parents. We know there is an even smaller minority that are fighting on our side, or working actively to undermine the jihadis, either covertly or overtly. Covertly we have seen some of the reports of here; overtly we have read speeches, articles, interviews and news stories about those who speak out. Only the other day I saw an interview here about aGazan Hamas leader's son who converted to Christianity, and I've read several articles about the former Palestinian terrorist who now gives speeches at universities across North America about the threat of jihadi groups to Western civilization. He converted to Christianity, too, if I recall correctly.
Posted by: trailing wife    2008-08-24 22:16  

#21  Pull out. Wait until Binny, Knot Head and Blinky feel safe enough to return then bomb the crap out of them. Problem solved. Just don't tell the Paks when we're gonna do it. (Couldn't Clinton have used some of those "invisible" stealth bombers without notifying the Paks instead of blowing it like he did with cruise missles?)

Either that or go into PakiLand after them and get it over with. The current status quo isn't serving any purpose. I don't believe we'll ever civilize that country and I don't believe it's worth the effort to try.
Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305   2008-08-24 19:18  

#20  Muslims are the "silent majority" only when it comes to criticizing the mass murder and rapine by muslims.
Posted by: ed   2008-08-24 17:37  

#19  I'm sure a lot of Europeans thought just like that in the 1950's about all those muslim workers they brought in. They sure were a peaceful lot. Now the Euros, to their everlasting regret, rue the day, many to the tune of losing their countries in 2-3 decades.

What "peaceful" muslims you may believe exist will turn on you and me just as viciously as the "silent minority" are turning of their European hosts if they ever feel they in position to gain power. The koran is clear: the world is for allah - not you.

Muslims are the "silent majority" only when it comes to criticizing the mass murder and rapine of muslims. Anything else and they are the most sensitive rectums on the planet.

If your "peaceful muslims" truly want to enter the modern world and be our friends, let them renounce their doctrine of conversion by the sword, the subversion of our society, and the calls for our conquest or deaths from mosques in Dearborn, Dallas, Chicago, Tampa, Tucson, New York, LA, ... Or better yet, leave islam. Otherwise, the only sane survival strategy is to quarantine muslims in the hellholes of their own making and meet them with bullets when they try to break out.
Posted by: ed   2008-08-24 17:33  

#18  The fundamentalists sure do want everyone to believe that all Muslims must buy that crap literally. And a lot of Muslims do, especially in the tribal 3rd world.

But there are a bunch of people who call themselves Muslim for cultural and family reasons who have no interest in violent jihad etc. Your equation of Islam = jihad/sharia/etc. = all who call themselves Muslim just doesn't hold.

The fundies will probably win the argument. But let's not help them do it. I'm not aching to kill 1.5 billion people who label themselves Muslim even tho I recognize that we may well find ourselves in a bloody worldwide battle if we can't build and support responsibly acting governments in Muslim countries.
Posted by: lotp   2008-08-24 17:08  

#17  On the contrary. Jihad, plunder, forced conversion, slavery or death of nonmuslims is the foundation of islam. That automatically makes muslims not your friends. The heretic sects that have progressed beyond that, like Ahmadiyyas or Baha'is, are persecuted and hunted down by the mainstream muslims.
Posted by: ed   2008-08-24 16:59  

#16  Some are, ed. Some are. Including some I know who serve in the US military and have served well in places like Iraq.

They are a small minority, those soldiers. But it's a mistake and fundamentally inaccurate to tar them with the same brush as the Taliban or the terror networks IMO.
Posted by: lotp   2008-08-24 16:47  

#15  Muslims are NOT our friends. Should be tattooed on every one of our leaders' foreheads.
Posted by: ed   2008-08-24 16:35  

#14  Deac, none of the folks are friends to anyone other than their tribe.

All we require of them is that they not be our enemy.

However, its getting to the point whre I think we should maybe do forced relocations of these tribes to break them up. Sure they'll hate us but they already do.

Just be sure to seed the ground of their old areas with radioactive dust (cobalt, iirc is the basis). Renders it deadly for a few years, unsuitable for transportation for about a decade, uninhabitable for about 50-60 years, but should be 100% safe within 100 years (no radiation above normal background). The magic of half life radiation.
Posted by: OldSpook   2008-08-24 16:11  

#13  I hope that the U. S. pays full damages to the surviving family members.
Posted by: James   2008-08-24 16:05  

#12  Make no mistake, Karzai is NOT our friend.
Posted by: Deacon Blues   2008-08-24 15:53  

#11  Talibunnies hide in burkas, and behind women and children all the time. The only think they more comfortable behind is the family goat.
Posted by: anymouse   2008-08-24 14:58  

#10  Is Karzai going to have an "accident" in the near future? If we behaved as the Russians did, he'd have been dead a year ago.

There are Pashtuns on both sides of the Afghan/Pakistan border. Many have close family ties. Both are great at carrying grudges and lying. The only way to curtail all the bs is to play as if that border doesn't exist. We tried with Perv, and failed. It's time to step on Gomez' head and tell him what we're going to do, and what he's going to agree to. Either that or pakistan disappears from the world maps. No other solution exists.
Posted by: Old Patriot   2008-08-24 13:41  

#9  Maybe we'll get lucky - and the Mayor of Kabul will insist on a timetable for American departure.
Posted by: Zhang Fei   2008-08-24 13:39  

#8  Terrorists are able to mix with civilian populace through intimidation and brainwashing. The NATO and ANA forces dont have that kind of weapon and shield.
Posted by: Dimasalang   2008-08-24 12:38  

#7  No wsoozle is olde north country. Hull maybe.
Posted by: .5MT   2008-08-24 11:43  

#6  I agree with Woozle Elmeter. It's time to back someone serious there. Elmeter? is that Welsh?
Posted by: Richard of Oregon   2008-08-24 11:14  

#5  Time to dump this puppet. His largest payees now are the Talibunnie poppy crowd. He's doing everything possible to undermine our efforts.
Posted by: Woozle Elmeter 2700   2008-08-24 10:13  

#4  He's probably being accused by some enemy of being a lapdog of America, so we're throwing him a PR bone that costs us nothing, so he can show how "independent" he is.

It's SOP in these things. Nothing personal. We understand.
Posted by: Anonymoose   2008-08-24 09:53  

#3  Time to get out.
Posted by: Elphinstone   2008-08-24 08:51  

#2  U.S. coalition spokesman, First Lieutenant Nathan Perry, told VOA the troops were able to search the compound following the battle to confirm the casualty figures.

That's gotta have some politicians' turbans in a knot.

He says five civilians, who were believed to be related to the militants, were among the 30 people killed in the strike.

Tragic considering they had such great potential as pillars of the community.

"And after the operation, those troops on the ground were able to do a battlefield assessment. Not only did they confirm that they killed 25 militants, they also confirmed the main target that they were in pursuit of."

Heh. If they had waited until the Afghan authorities had arrived all the dead would have been buried in an undisclosed location, which would have been proof positive that every one of them was a woman or child. And every grieving family would have already filled out the paperwork for monetary compensation and would be queued up to hand to those same authorities when they arrived.

The spokesman said despite the initial battlefield assessment, U.S.-led coalition forces have launched an investigation into the airstrike. Afghan officials have also called for an investigation.

Despite. Interesting choice of words. I would have said something more like "in order to intercept the large number of anticipated fraudulent compensation claims involving the deaths of more people than the village has members, we did a preliminary battlefield assessment before they could whisk away the evidence to the contrary."

Civilians deaths from U.S. airstrikes are a contentious issue in Afghanistan and in recent months the Afghan government has been more assertive in publicly rebuking foreign allied forces for civilian casualties for political gain.

President Karzai said Saturday that so far, Afghan efforts to stop civilian casualties have not had "desired outcomes." The president said the government will soon announce new initiatives for avoiding civilian deaths.

Want to bring civilian deaths to a complete halt? Kill all the Taliban as fast as you can. At the rate the Taliban seem to kill civilians, it would be more than worth it in body-count alone, not to mention lifestyle, to kill 10 civilians just to kill one Talib. Keep that in mind as you make your plans.

In the village in Herat where Thursday's airstrike occurred, hundreds of locals protested Saturday after rejecting offers of food and other aid but not money from Afghan military troops. Local media reports said some of the protesters turned violent and soldiers fired on the crowd, injuring several people.

Show us your fluffy bunnies, and we'll show you our combat footage.

It's 3:00 in the morning. Do you know what your relatives are up to?
Posted by: gorb   2008-08-24 07:33  

#1  Death toll continues to rise. At this rate in a couple of months this raid will have been responsible for the complete elimination of all civilians in Afghanistan. Human rights group says 88 Afghans killed
Posted by: GolfBravoUSMC   2008-08-24 03:55  

00:00