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Olde Tyme Religion
Why the Islamic world fell into backwardness
2008-09-11
On why the Islamic world fell into backwardness, and the key to future success.

Addressing a meeting of the Indonesian Islamic Society of Brisbane (IISB) in Australia on 7th September Heru Sriwidodo Sari, founder of the Trainer Muslim Indonesia Association, worried that many parents today regarded their children's school textbooks as being more worthy of mastering than the Quran, more likely to bring success for their children later in life.
Boy howdy, there's a heretical idea. Let the young'ins learn math, science, accounting and English?
Heru said this was wrong-headed, and that for seven hundred years after the time of Muhammad the Muslim world dominated world culture and learning while at the same time the European peoples had not advanced, precisely because people held fast to Quranic study and principles.
Also because the Euros were trying to sort who the hell they were, and had to deal with a number of invasions from the east. Notice what happened after the Euros managed to get their own houses in order.
After this period of dominance, and likely near-coinciding with what is called "the great divergence" - when northern/western Europe began streaking ahead of the Arab and Asian worlds in scientific, technological, and economic achievements - Heru says Muslims neglected the Quran and herein lay the seeds of their failure until today.
They also neglected science, trade and economics, and let a bunch of fundies, suck-ups, grand viziers and fools run their governments, with the predictable results ...
In order to achieve success in this life and the next Heru said only seven verses of the Al Fatihah chapter of the Quran were necessary to be learned and repeated every time one prayed, these being:

In the name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful:

Praise be to God, the Lord of the Universe.

The Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

Master of the Day of Judgment.

You alone we worship, and You alone we ask for help

Guide us to the straight path;

The path of those whom You have favoured, not of those who have deserved Your anger, nor of those who stray.

This could be formulated or summarised into the following, by some uncertain process:
" vision
" potential
" opportunity
" motivation
" mission
" strategy
" action
I could turn that into a Powerpoint slide! Mebbe pink text on a green background ...
Reading the above verses would bring understanding, visualisation of goals, and obedience to God, the keys to success, Heru said.
Posted by:Classer

#14  About Muslim Golden Age. A French book who delas about transmisision of Greek culture to the West notes for one part that the work in Western (Mount Saint Micxhel Abbey between others) and Bysancian
work was much more important than the Oriental one for Europe. Also it notes that when they say you that caliphs surrounded themselves with "scinetis" the Arab word used is not the one used for mathematicians, physicists or chemists but the one for... doctors in Islamic law, Koranic studies or experts about Muhammad's life.
Posted by: JFM   2008-09-11 17:46  

#13  Fuck your religion, your prophet and you.

In that order.
Posted by: mojo   2008-09-11 15:33  

#12  ended cold with the Persian philosopher
I wonder if that had anything to do with Persia being a "Water Empire"?
Posted by: 3dc   2008-09-11 14:56  

#11  What effect did the Mongol conquest play in all this?

IIRC the timing was about the same around the 12th century.
Posted by: AlanC   2008-09-11 14:36  

#10  In the Muslim "golden age" most (soem say nearly all) the scientists, philosophers, etc. were either infidels or apostates.

When Islam became serious, the science and philosophy had to end and the infidels were too oppressed to work and the apostates were killed.
Posted by: mhw   2008-09-11 14:04  

#9  Islamic advancement ended cold with the Persian philosopher al-Ghazali (there were several with about that spelling), in the 11th-12th Centuries. While he wrote about all sorts of sciences, the end result was that Islamic science was "frozen in time". It is still debated whether this was his intent, but it was the result.

A combination of Persian xenophobia and Koranic fundamentalism then took hold and spread through the Muslim empire. Spain was the last stronghold of innovation, before the Christians kicked out the Muslims and acquired their libraries.

Much later, fundamentalist revivals, such as Sufism and Wahabbism decreed that *only* the knowledge found in the Koran was legitimate, and that all other knowledge was corrupt, and should be ignored at worst and destroyed at best.

This was the start of the real descent of Islam into barbarism.
Posted by: Anonymoose   2008-09-11 13:59  

#8  Thats because the muslims captured and translated all that Greek knowledge.

In fact East mediterranean had ever lead West mediterranean and still more the Barbaric Germany or England.

Also nearly all the translation work in muslim countries was made by Christians, specially the Syriacs.

Posted by: JFM   2008-09-11 11:42  

#7  When the Muslims overran the middle east they acquired the existent knowledge and people, who already dominated culture and learning. They did not force conversions, but did discriminate against non-believers and forced non-muslims to pay the special tax, jizya.

Knowledge and technilogical advance was centered in the non-muslim population, and in the educated children of recent converts (conversions to avoid discrimination and tax). When the non-muslim population dissappeared culture and progress in the middle east not only stopped, but devolved.
Posted by: DoDo   2008-09-11 11:23  

#6  It seems to me that when the Islamic world was advanced it was more to do with EUrope falling by comparison than any great achievments the Islamic world managed. It's pretty sad really but Islamic thinking is not really compatible with science. Christian thinking once had a similar problem but the Europeans got their brains around the problem (mostly) and continued advancing.
Posted by: rjschwarz   2008-09-11 11:23  

#5  The Chinese discovered..list.....

then they discovered opium and the world caught up.
Posted by: anonymous2u   2008-09-11 11:06  

#4  I'll share an example of the Islamic world vs the Christian one. Glass was known in Roman times. After the fall of the western empire, the making of glass was forgotten in western Europe. The Islamic world still knew how to make glass and used it as decoration and fancy table sets. The Islamic world had the recipe for glass for a thousand years altogether.
Europe rediscovered how to make glass with the influx of knowledge. In less than 400 years, they improved the formula to make clear glass, large pieces of glass, lenses and other useful and scientific gadgets. It allowed them to discover the properties of light, allowed them to see planets and moons, allowed reading glasses, beakers for chemistry, protective but transparent covers for compasses to travel the world, etc.
The Islamic world continued to use it to decorate their mosques. The Islamic world fell into "backwardness" because they refused to go forward. They stayed in the 7-9th century. The rest of the world moved on into the 21st century, the Islamic world hasn't.
So, continue to cling bitterly to your religion boys. It has gotten you this far, hasn't it?
Posted by: DarthVader   2008-09-11 10:46  

#3  Heru said this was wrong-headed, and that for seven hundred years after the time of Muhammad the Muslim world dominated world culture and learning while at the same time the European peoples had not advanced,

Thats because the muslims captured and translated all that Greek knowledge. Once we got ahold of it, it started the renissance, while the islamic world failed to keep up.
Posted by: Free Radical   2008-09-11 10:09  

#2  I'm very confused, Grins Oppressor of the Pixies4430.
Posted by: trailing wife    2008-09-11 09:49  

#1  Yes, yes, yes Classer. You have won the admiration and respect of the moderators here! Congratulations on your now prolific pro-Islamic propaganda for the Religion of Terror at Rantburg!

In-Shalah!!!
Posted by: Grins Oppressor of the Pixies4430   2008-09-11 09:26  

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