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| Science & Technology |
| New Turbine Design could reduce Wind Energy Costs |
| 2008-12-02 |
| FloDesign Wind Turbine... has developed a wind turbine that could generate electricity at half the cost of conventional turbines.... Typically, as wind approaches a turbine, almost half of the air is forced around the blades rather than through them, and the energy in that deflected wind is lost. At best, traditional wind turbines capture only 59.3 percent of the energy in wind, a value called the Betz limit. FloDesign surrounds its wind-turbine blades with a shroud that directs air through the blades and speeds it up... --------- last month Technology Review had an article on a new generator design that could also help boost productivity of wind turbines: http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/21666/?a=f |
| Posted by:mhw |
| #16 Just cover the California coast with windmills that are using the power generated to do reverse osmosis on seawater turning it into usable water. Then you don't need to depend on it for power nor care if it is an even source of power. When the wind blows you make pure water.. When it doesn't nothing happens. Water could be used for drinking/irrigation/whatever. California is always short of water - that's why they steal it from elsewhere. |
| Posted by: 3dc 2008-12-02 23:00 |
| #15 in the cities, most cats are indoor cats (like mine, who's 14 yrs old, not very bright and would be short-lived outside, gawdloveher), so I think the estimate is a leeetle off. I've heard numbers like this before (no offense, Skunky), and it always seemed like Audubon nonsense. I remain unconvinced (except that birders seemed predisposed to alarmism - see Chicken Little) |
| Posted by: Frank G 2008-12-02 22:28 |
| #14 My cat has had fairly good luck at catching its tail but somehow it always seems to get away again... |
| Posted by: Jolutch Mussolini7800 2008-12-02 22:25 |
| #13 I think there's only 60 million cats in the US. So that would work out to about 1 2/3 birds per cat per year. For some cats that estimate is probably high, and for some cats that are good birders, it's probably very, VERY low. |
| Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain 2008-12-02 22:16 |
| #12 100 million? reaaallllyy? My cat can't catch her shadow |
| Posted by: Frank G 2008-12-02 21:50 |
| #11 Domestic cats kill 100mil birds a year. That is an doorstep estimate of course. Turbine kills amounted to 37,000 annually, based on counts at the base of the towers. |
| Posted by: Skunky Glins 5*** 2008-12-02 21:41 |
| #10 the 'wind-turbines hurts birds' argument is pretty dead utility lines, tall buildings, communication towers and other such things take out about 1 million birds per day vs. about 500 per day by all the wind turbines together worldwide |
| Posted by: mhw 2008-12-02 16:11 |
| #9 There is also the turbine blade and bird strike issue. No stats available, but I'm sure the PETA website has something. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2008-12-02 14:31 |
| #8 More bad news for wind energy: a recent article in one of the Seattle papers ( i think) was suggesting that wind farms can change the weather by a compination of removing energy from wind so that patterns are affected, or the turbulence from the blades can casue the weather fronts to move in reation to that turbulence. thier research went on to admit the theorized farm size was much bigger than any seen to date, but ".. well you can't be too careful..." the reduction in available energy makes sense to me, but blade turbulence causing wx patern shifts seems a bit much. its not like we are comparing this to wing tip vortices on aircraft and how they affect other nearby aircraft.... time to put an option on that nearby cave, that's all we will be allowed to live in after the 'learned elite' gets done. |
| Posted by: USN, Ret. 2008-12-02 14:22 |
| #7 Obviously Wind Power has some downside, however, 1. Assuming better energy storage devices are developed, wind power will be a major beneficiary. With so many different technologies being advanced, this seems a pretty decent bet. 2. The shroud would only work with some wind turbines; obviously not the huge ones. However, one effect of the shroud would be to allow for shorter blade size (which would mean, among other things, more densely developed wind farm areas, i.e., more turbines/acre). 3. At this point in time, the single most important constraint on wind power is the lack of transmission lines from the very rural areas where wind farms are desired and wind conditions are good. |
| Posted by: mhw 2008-12-02 13:07 |
| #6 |
| Posted by: GolfBravoUSMC 2008-12-02 12:08 |
| #5 this farmer/rancher in the Saudi Arabia of Wind energy (Kansas) has replaced water windmills with solar pumps. Why? more dependable and you can't keep the aeromotors working and when they break down you can't find anyone to fix them. |
| Posted by: bman 2008-12-02 12:06 |
| #4 Imma gonna put a waterwheel in the creek. |
| Posted by: Deacon Blues 2008-12-02 11:34 |
| #3 It's even more fundamental than that. My next door neighbor has a small windmill. Sometimes it turns. But many times it don't turn when it should. Either it's pointing in the wrong direction because the wind shifted or the gearing is wrong. He paid $15K. He is not happy. |
| Posted by: Minister of funny walks 2008-12-02 10:31 |
| #2 A 1MW wind turbine is about 125 feet in diameter. I'd like to see a shroud anywhere near that size and the support structure to hold it in place. |
| Posted by: ed 2008-12-02 10:28 |
| #1 Let's talk about the dirty secret of wind turbines. Given that the wind can chnage from second to second, wind farms have to be complemented with gas powered generators. TRhese act by heating water so when the wind weakens and the gas turbine has to enter service there is energy lost (respective to conventional gas-powered generator) in order to bring water to boiling point: ie you are using gas and producing zero energy output. When the wind stiffens again the gas turbine goes off but that means you lose the energy you had used in getting the water hot. In other ords the attached gas turbine is a lot less efficient than the one in a gas plant. If you make a new more wind turbine design with doubled efficiency you must also double the size of the gas turbine who must be able, when there is no wind, able to produce 2*N instead of N watts. |
| Posted by: JFM 2008-12-02 10:18 |