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Europe
Greece loses EU voting power in blow to sovereignty
2010-02-18
The European Union has shown its righteous wrath by stripping Greece of its vote at a crucial meeting next month, the worst humiliation ever suffered by an EU member state.
A badly written article. Which crucial meeting? Why is Greece suddenly being stripped of its vote for that one and no other?
The council of EU finance ministers said Athens must comply with austerity demands by March 16 or lose control over its own tax and spend policies altogether. It if fails to do so, the EU will itself impose cuts under the draconian Article 126.9 of the Lisbon Treaty in what would amount to economic suzerainty.

While the symbolic move to suspend Greece of its voting rights at one meeting makes no practical difference, it marks a constitutional watershed and represents a crushing loss of sovereignty.

"We certainly won't let them off the hook," said Austria's finance minister, Josef Proll, echoing views shared by colleagues in Northern Europe. Some German officials have called for Greece to be denied a vote in all EU matter until it emerges from "receivership".

The EU has still refused to reveal details of how it might help Greece raise €30bn (£26bn) from global debt markets by the end of June. Investors are unsure whether this is part of Kabuki play of "constructive ambiguity" to pressure Greece and keep markets guessing, or reflects the deep reluctance by Germany to be drawn deeper in an EU fiscal union. Greek bonds sold off as ten-year yields jumped to 6.42pc, but the euro rallied to $1.3765 against the dollar as broader issues resurfaced in currency markets.

Jean-Claude Juncker, head of the Eurogroup, hinted that ministers have already agreed on a support mechanism, should it be necessary. It will most likely involve by bilateral aid by eurozone states. He said proposals for an IMF bailout - backed by Britain - were "absurd" and would shatter the credibility of monetary union.

Many Germans disagree, including Otmar Issing, once the backbone of the European Central Bank. He said an EU rescue for Greece would be fatal, arguing that unflinching rigour is the only way to hold monetary union together without political union.

Tuesday's EU verdict amounted to a thumbs down on Greece's earlier austerity efforts, viewed as too reliant on one-off measures and too light on spending cuts. Greece must reduce its deficit from 12.7pc of GDP to 3pc in three years. Greek customs officials expressed their anger by kicking off a three-day strike, the first of many stoppages set to culminate in a general strike next week.

However, premier George Papandreou has won support from key political parties and a majority of the people. Greece may yet surprise critics by mustering its Spartan Spirit.
Posted by:Fred

#10  It's already too late.
Posted by: Bright Pebbles   2010-02-18 20:46  

#9  Both major Greek US parties committed the fraud

Now the question is, can we stop ours before it's too late?
Posted by: AlanC   2010-02-18 15:43  

#8  Aris, Both major Greek parties committed the fraud against the European Union -- all Greek parties chose to ignore parasitism and corruption in the state apparatus.

I suspected that much. However, I don't see EU structure as any different. It's parasiting on the member countries, on an entirely different level. Just my opinion, I know you probably don't agree.
Posted by: twobyfour   2010-02-18 11:41  

#7  Why, yes, I do believe the Greeks will go absolutely ape-shit.
Posted by: mojo   2010-02-18 11:17  

#6  [quote]"it is the Action of Foreign companies like Siemens which corrupted for several years the Greek Public Financial system."[/quote]

So utterly ludicrous. First of all if we're to blame external actors, the chief external corruptors have been social-fascist state actors like Russia (military deals about tanks and missiles, deals about gaspipes, etc) and China (who has already bought the port of Piraeus, and has been in secret deals to buy our railways or our national bank, or both).

Private capitalist corruptors like Siemens located in democratic nations are also eventually *exposed* and prosecuted by the authorities of those foreign nations. Not so with state-actors.

But that's a detail -- your whole post misses the bigger point that the corruption was a national choice. Both major Greek parties committed the fraud against the European Union -- all Greek parties chose to ignore parasitism and corruption in the state apparatus.

And most importantly all Greek parties practically WARRED on any actually productive forces of the nation -- which is actually an even bigger problem than corruption. They *chose* to drive away foreign investments, they *chose* to shut down mines and factories, they chose to support all that was most parasitic in society. They chose to make "public employee" a synonym for "lazy ass who doesn't actually work".

They chose to make "green development" a motto in order to destroy coal-based industry, and then they chose to oppose green industries also in favour of tourism, and then they opposed tourist development too. As they opposed all other development.

[quote]it is the Germans who say "the Greek state is corrupted" O yeah? and who did that?[/quote]

The Greeks did. They chose corruption (among other worse things). The people who want to be corrupt with always find a way to be so.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2010-02-18 11:04  

#5  it is the Action of Foreign companies like Siemens which corrupted for several years the Greek Public Financial system. It is so unfair that the Germans first make sure that their companies gain contracts in the public sector (see Athens airport, see olympic games), then Siemens makes payments to the two largest political parties to buy their silence, and when the Greek state is runing out of cash, it is the Germans who say "the Greek state is corrupted" O yeah? and who did that?
Posted by: Caesar Unoper6700   2010-02-18 10:29  

#4  Aris, how things are working out for you now?

About as well as they are going to work out for us in a couple of years. With the Chinese and Japanese playing the part of the EU. Our best hope is how well they work together.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble   2010-02-18 09:28  

#3  Nicely said, Aris. I hope you have found happiness and fulfillment in that undiscussed life.

Separately, this article reveals the diametrically opposite positions being taken by the major EU nations, which suggests no near-term rescue will take place. Greece's salvation will have to result from Greek efforts, and whether the Athenians can take the necessary Spartan approach is questionable.

/No doubt cliche' by now in press and commentary, but I only just thought of it, and am inordinately pleased with the whole thing.
Posted by: trailing wife   2010-02-18 08:30  

#2  I've been predicting Greece's bankruptcy for a while now.

The way I see it Greece should be expelled from the European Union. Unfortunately I know of no procedure which would allow the EU to actually expel a member state, even one as corrupt and dishonest as Greece.

If by "you" you meant personally, thank for the personal interest, but I don't much care to discuss my personal life online.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2010-02-18 07:57  

#1  Aris, how things are working out for you now?
Posted by: twobyfour   2010-02-18 06:20  

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