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International-UN-NGOs
Carrier ops be hard
2017-02-16
Both from Strategy Page, so salt to taste:

Indian Carriers Forced To Go Naked

In early 2017 the Indian Navy issued a request for foreign suppliers to bid on a $15 billion contract to supply 57 jet fighter-bombers capable of operating from an aircraft carrier. This comes after a late 2016 announcement by the navy that India’s locally designed and built LCA (Light Combat Aircraft or "Tejas") jet fighter was unsuitable for use on Indian aircraft carriers.

The navy mentioned the LCA being overweight and, well, simply not suitable. With some encouragement from the government the navy amended its decision to include the possibility that 46 of the LCA Mk2 (due in 2025) might be ordered if the empty weight could be reduced 15 percent (from 6.6 tons to 5.6 tons). Currently the max weight is 13.5 tons and armament is one twin barrel 23mm autocannon and up to 3.5 tons of missiles and bombs. Internal fuel is 2.5 tons and that can be increased by at least 40 percent via drop tanks. Many in the navy don’t believe LCA will survive until 2025 and the government seems to concur and authorized the navy to seek a suitable carrier aircraft abroad.
So even when it's empty it's too heavy. Good bird for a carrier. Talk about a 'lawn dart'...
Actually the Indian navy already has a foreign built carrier jet but is seeking other suppliers. The Indian Navy bought Russian 16 MiG-29K jets for their new aircraft carrier, INS Vikramaditya. The Indians were not happy with the performance of the Russian work on the Vikramaditya or the MiG-29K. There have been problems and disappointments.
There's a theme here, see if you can figure it out...
The same could be said with the way India buys foreign weapons. What is going on here? It is all about the infamous Indian procurement bureaucracy. That includes the problem with the procurement bureaucracy being so inefficient that even when the military gets the money to buy some foreign system it can take a decade of more for the bureaucrats to make it happen. With Indian made weapons there is also corruption and inefficiency in state owned firms. That was the main reason the Indian Air Force and Navy went public with their pleas for the government not to force them to accept and operate the LCA.
There's a whole lot more, including that the Indian Air Force would be better off with used F-16 aircraft. Wonder how well those work on a carrier?

Rooshun carrier ops beset with problems

Recently the only Russian aircraft carrier (the Kuznetsov) completed its longest and busiest cruise yet, spending 117 days at sea and carrying out 420 aircraft takeoffs using its Su-33s and MiG-29Ks jets. Some of those flights were for combat missions in Syria. That level of activity comes out to 3.6 fixed wing aircraft operations per day. While doing that two jets were lost. Russia considered this a training cruise that cost less than $200 million.

While it demonstrated the Russian carrier could carry out flight operations it did them at a lower level of intensity and with far more accidents than their U.S. Navy counterparts. An American carrier averages about 24 catapult assisted aircraft operations a day over careers that last more than 40 years. The accident rate is much lower than what the Russians experienced. While the Russians may not gain much from this achievement, the Chinese are paying attention because the Chinese, unlike the Russians, already have one carrier operational and another one under construction. The Chinese, in a way, are out to finish what the Kuznetsov started. Kuznetsov has an interesting history that started back in the 1970s and eventually involved China as well.

Kuznetsov entered service in 1995, after a decade of construction. The Kuznetsov was an experiment to see if Russia could build and operate a large carrier. Kuznetsov is a 65,000 ton (full load) ship that uses a ski jump type flight deck instead of a steam catapult. The ship normally carries a dozen navalized Su-27s (called Su-33s), 14 Ka-27PL anti-submarine helicopters, two electronic warfare helicopters and two search and rescue helicopters. The ship carries 2,500 tons of aviation fuel, allowing it to generate 500-1,000 aircraft and helicopter sorties. Crew size is 2,500 (or 3,000 with a full aircraft load.) The crew size for the recent trip to Syria was only 2,000.

Originally the Russians planned to build four or more large (similar to the American Nimitz class) nuclear powered carriers. But they soon realized (in the late 1970s) that this was beyond their capabilities or resources. After 2000 the Russian Navy began to rebuild and again made plans to build five or more larger carriers but by 2010 it was clear the money was not there and would not be for a long time. So Kuznetsov, after nearly 40 years of effort, appears to be the end of the line for Russian carriers.

While the Kuznetsov was undergoing a 24 month refurbishment in 2005-7, the navy realized that the Su-33 was also in need of replacement and in 2009 ordered 24 MiG-29Ks to replace the Su-33s. In 2008 the carrier version of the Russian MiG-29, the MiG-29K, made its first flight, about fifteen years later than originally planned. The MiG-29K modifications included arrestor gear and stronger landing gear for carrier landings, folding wings and rust proofing to reduce corrosion from all that salt water. Anti-radar paint is also used, to reduce the radar signature. Fuel capacity was increased 50 percent and more modern electronics installed. A more powerful engine is used, which enabled the aircraft to carry over five tons of weapons (air-to-air and anti-ship missiles, smart bombs).

In 2007, after two years of refurbishment, returned to service. But the refurb, like the original construction, was sloppy.
Rooshun yard work sloppy? Who ever heard of such a thing?
Ten years later the Kuznetsov finally got a chance to do what it was designed for (long cruises to distant waters) and demonstrated that it could go through the motions but not much more than that.
Posted by:Steve White

#8  As far as Russian equipment being sub par, you have to remember that Russia's design plan has long been 'It only has to work correctly once!'
(I give you the engines of the MiG25 as an example...)
Posted by: ed in texas   2017-02-16 19:16  

#7  Should start with a helicopter carrier anyways. India really doesn't have need of a full carrier and they can work up the institutional knowledge without catapults and very expensive jets.
Posted by: rjschwarz   2017-02-16 11:15  

#6  F16 and F18 came out of the same light weight program, but put current models next to each other and you should notice that the landing gear of the F16 looks like toothpicks compared to the F18. Carrier landings are brute force efforts not to crash on a postage stamp.
Posted by: AlmostAnonymous5839   2017-02-16 10:04  

#5  There's a whole lot more, including that the Indian Air Force would be better off with used F-16 aircraft. Wonder how well those work on a carrier?

Back when the F-16 was the Latest Thing(TM), Vought Aircraft - desperate to stay in business with the F-8 Crusader gone and the A-7 Corsair II going - proposed a navalized version of the F-16 as a cheaper alternative to the F-18, which had some fairly serious problems in its earliest versions. The USN said no, mainly because the Sea Falcon only had one engine, and USN aircraft must have two engines to increase the safety margin at sea.

Fast forward to 2017. How many engines does the F-35 have again?

Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski   2017-02-16 05:34  

#4  I'm having a Zen Flog moment here. Please do not interrupt me.
Posted by: newc   2017-02-16 03:35  

#3  With one-engined planes over water,
We'll make of the Pakis a slaughter,
But if'n we're damaged
And fishes are famished,
We'll shoo them away with our shutter.

Alternatively...

The Indians' martial impatience,
In contrast to meat-eating nations,
Secures them the vanguard
Where others say, "too hard:"
"Commencing unmanned operations!"

"I meant to do that."
Posted by: Zenobia Floger6220   2017-02-16 01:10  

#2  On 14 February 2017, the Navy announced that the ship will be demobilized and subsequently decommissioned.
Posted by: 3dc   2017-02-16 00:58  

#1  You missed one.
Brazil decided to shutdown carrier air and scrap their old French carrier once known as Foch and currently São Paulo (A12).

Posted by: 3dc   2017-02-16 00:57  

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