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Two air strikes kill 14 Afghan civilians
[ENGLISH.ALARABIYA.NET] Two air strikes have killed 14 civilians in Afghanistan in recent days, the United Nations
...where theory meets practice and practice loses...
said Thursday, as the US intensifies its air war across the country.

According to the UN Mission in Afghanistan (UNAMA), five women and seven children were among the 14 civilians killed in Helmand Afghan province populated mostly by Pashtuns, adjacent to Injun country in Pak Balochistan...
province in the south on May 20, and Kunar province
... which is right down the road from Chitral. Kunar is Haqqani country.....
in the east on May 22.

"Civilian casualty toll from Arclight airstrikes in Afghanistan continues to rise," UNAMA said on Twitter.

"Parties must respect international obligations to protect civilians from harm."

While the Afghan military does have a fledgling air force, most strikes are led or supported by American air power. US Forces Afghanistan declined to comment.

According to US Air Force Central Command, the US dropped 7,362 bombs in Afghanistan in 2018, the highest number since at least 2010.

In April, UNAMA published a report saying Afghan civilians are for the first time being killed in greater numbers by US and pro-government forces than by the Taliban
...Arabic for students...
and other krazed killer groups.

During the first three months of 2019, international and pro-government forces were responsible for the deaths of 305 civilians, whereas krazed killer groups killed 227 people, UNAMA said.

The development comes as the US steps up its air campaign in Afghanistan while pushing for a peace deal with the Taliban, who now control or influence more parts of the country than at any time since they were ousted in 2001.

Posted by:Fred

#30  I agree with Herb that long, pointless wars are a waste of people, time and treasure. If you are going to fight, fight to win. Don't treat it as a make-work project for sociology majors. Don't try to make it nice. Like the man said, war is cruelty, you cannot refine it.

Part of the problem is we are still geared up for fighting near-peer enemies and have not quite figured out strategy and tactics for fighting asymmetric, distributed war.
Posted by: SteveS   2019-05-24 23:09  

#29  Posts by Herb McCoy

Why do you come here Herb? Virtually no one here shares your viewpoint, and changing their mind isn’t in the cards.
Posted by: Tyranysaurus Clavith3514   2019-05-24 21:24  

#28  We're at war because Islamists killed innocents to achieve their aims.

Huh? Jihadis have been killing innocents for over a millennium on their way to world conquest for the glory of Allah and the increased wealth of His soldiers. They’ve been killing Jewish civilians in Israel since before it was a country. America only started taking the thing seriously when Al Qaeda successfully staged major attacks on targets in our homeland on 9/11, including the Pentagon; we almost completely ignored the related 1993 attack on the World Trade Center, other than to jail a few members of the conspiracy, just as we did little about the attack on the USS Cole and so many others.

I find your sudden lofty moralizing puzzling, Mr. McCoy. You’ve been here a while, and even now you play nicely with others on other pages of this site. The tone here, other than from you, has not changed as long as I’ve been hanging out here, so why are you suddenly so shocked?
Posted by: trailing wife   2019-05-24 21:19  

#27  I suppose the discussion might be interesting if he ever had anything to contribute other than a tantrum every time.
Posted by: Skidmark   2019-05-24 20:51  

#26  Herb's panties are always in twist when he can accuse America. Never when defending corrupt and inhumane opponents
Posted by: Frank G   2019-05-24 19:51  

#25   murder murder murdering murdering murder

"He's good!" gums a weary old whittler
To his cousin, the two-fingered fiddler.
"Yessir," chirps a third,
"That's the second best word
To throw fuel on a fire, besides 'Hitler!'"
Posted by: Ebbase Ebbease5214   2019-05-24 15:43  

#24  When you fight evil with evil, evil always wins.

You really think the USA is on the side of evil? Jesus Christ, how did you people lose your way? This is worse than I ever expected. I never, ever, IN MY LIFE expected to be arguing with - right wingers, of all people - about the idea that it's OK to murder innocent people.
Posted by: Herb McCoy   2019-05-24 14:41  

What do we call those who kill innocents in the pursuit of others?

What do we call those who let villains get away with murder by hiding behind civilians?
Posted by: Rob Crawford   2019-05-24 14:25  

#22  The Geneva Conventions have nothing to do with anything, only apply to those who sign them, and they were routinely violated by the Allies during WWII.

We're at war because Islamists killed innocents to achieve their aims.

We're achieving (actually failing to achieve) our aims by killing innocents.

At what point do you say, "My God, what have I done?" When do you wake up?

The fact that you were able to clog the spam filter with stories of murdering innocents makes me want to vomit. We've been doing this for 17 years. It doesn't work. If it was going to work, it would have worked by now. Your assertion that we're teaching them is false. They haven't "learned" a thing. All we're doing is murdering innocent people who never did anything to us.

"What have I done? Sweet Jesus, what have I done?
Become a thief in the night, become a dog on the run?
Have I fallen so far, and is the hour so late,
That nothing remains but the cry of my hate?"
— Jean Valjean after robbing a priest who had just given him shelter, Les Misérables
Posted by: Herb McCoy   2019-05-24 14:12  

#21  Did you read the links, Mr. McCoy? Some of those examples had nothing to do with us. What we’re dealing with is the fact that non-Western cultures do not accept the limitations on wartime behaviours that in the West became the Geneva Conventions. These limitations include not using civilians as human shields. But the Geneva Conventions also point out that those who use civilians as human shields are the ones responsible for what happens to them, not those who have to go through them to get to the enemy.

The villains, the evildoers, the criminals are those who hide behind innocents in the belief that it cleverly allows them to attack with impunity. We are not the ones doing that. Sadly, in the end the only way to protect future generations of innocents in such a culture is to go through the current ones to get the villains/evildoers/criminals, teaching them the hardest way that such behaviour simply does not work.
Posted by: trailing wife   2019-05-24 13:05  

#20  I said prove they are *in this case*. The fact that you're so easily able to pull up so many cases of the DC establishment killing innocents is horrifying.

So we should kill innocents anyway? What do we call those who kill innocents in the pursuit of others? Villains. Evildoers. Criminals.

The bloodlust of the establishment - in which I include the corporate press - cannot be overstated. It's horrific.

Remember when the media questioned Trump's fitness for office during the debates? He's going to get pissed off at some tweet from China and press the nuclear button? Now they're angry he won't START wars. Invade Venezuela, invade Iran. NOT getting us into another war is being used as a slight against him. By the same people who regarded that as a problem when he was a nominee. The same press that faked us into the Spanish-American War is still around. The same press can't wait to get us into another war.
Posted by: Herb McCoy   2019-05-24 12:22  

#19  Actually, I'm with Herb on this one. End the war!

What we should have done is just bomb the shit out of the Taliban to the point where they will think twice about attacking America again.

We could have used the money on Americans instead, perhaps even (gasp) pay down the national debit!

Give up on nation building, if the Afghan government haven't gotten control by now, they never will. They get the government they desire, we just need to make sure they do not harbor anyone that will do harm to America.

We've given them enough money and tools to keep order in their country. Time for us to withdraw and let them swim or sink.

Frankly, I for one am tire of getting involved in other people messes and wasting money on them. Just bomb the shit out of them.. For those who are whining about the women and kids, well it's on them, not us.
Posted by: Seeking Cure For Ignorance   2019-05-24 12:20  

#18  I’m trying to give a variety of countries, news sources, and guilty parties from the recent and early ends of the Rantburg archives.
Posted by: trailing wife   2019-05-24 12:12  

#17  I trust the source and reporting of this about as much as I trust Chinese construction companies.
Posted by: DarthVader   2019-05-24 12:08  

#16  Sorry — Fred’s anti-spam code does not allow a long list of links in a single comment. The above two links were from March of this year. These two take us back to last November out of the first 100 articles that the search for the term “human shield” yielded.
Posted by: trailing wife   2019-05-24 11:57  

#15  The use of human shields by jihadis has long and often been reported, Mr. McCoy. A few examples from our archives:
Posted by: trailing wife   2019-05-24 11:46  

#14  Don't tickle the troll.
Posted by: Skidmark   2019-05-24 11:15  

#13  if they got blowed up, it was the will of Allan
Posted by: Bob Grorong1136   2019-05-24 11:13  

#12  "Are you sure those were not human shields protecting someone very not innocent"

Prove that they were.

"believe the worst of America. *spit*"

I'm a proud American who loves America, never gets tired of saluting the flag, and my heart swells with pride when I see the Constitution. But we have some seriously evil people in charge of our political establishment in DC. They don't consider themselves "American", they think Americans are deplorable. They are willing to use torture. They are willing to murder innocents. Are these not the same reasons we condemn terrorists?

End the wars. Stop getting our soldiers killed for no reason. Bring the boys home to a big parade and thank them all.
Posted by: Herb McCoy   2019-05-24 10:36  

#11 they tell the terrorists from the civilians? Not to mention the human shields (willing or unwilling).
Posted by: CrazyFool   2019-05-24 09:49  

#10  In some cases they have been known to take a few out of the mortuary and throw them in with the dead.
Posted by: gorb   2019-05-24 09:37  

#9  I am always reminded that right after 9/11, some muzzist luminary said "there are no civilians..."
Posted by: M. Murcek   2019-05-24 09:29  

#8  Every news report about fighty stuff nowadays seems to include stats for civilians, women and children as calculated by the UN or some local NGO. I find these numbers totally believable, he said trying to make that serious face.
Posted by: SteveS   2019-05-24 09:10  

#7  Herb - always willing to further enemy propaganda and believe the worst of America. *spit*

TW in #2 is absolutely correct to assume they were either NOT civilians (til they were dead) or human shields.
Posted by: Frank G   2019-05-24 08:41  

#6  Who was that black mayor that pretty much fire bombed several blocks of Philadelphia back in the 1970's or 80's?


Mayor Frank Rizzo
Posted by: Skidmark   2019-05-24 08:17  

#5  Who was that black mayor that pretty much fire bombed several blocks of Philadelphia back in the 1970's or 80's?
Posted by: DooDahMan   2019-05-24 07:48  

#4  Afghanistan has civilians, who knew?
Posted by: g(r)omgoru   2019-05-24 07:45  

#3  i bet they would welcoe you with open arms herb
Posted by: chris   2019-05-24 07:08  

#2  Every one of these innocents had relatives, and these relatives are now outraged at America's murders.

Are you sure those were not human shields protecting someone very not innocent, Mr. McCoy? For that matter, are you quite, quite certain that on even days these particular innocents were were not official members of whichever jihadi organization or even just a local warlord’s band rigns over that articular corner of Pashtunistan, while on odd days they went back to being “civilians”?

And finally, the odds are very, very good that those people and their friends and relations already hated us for being unsubmitted unbelievers, needing no prompting from contingent occurrences to reject adoration of Western principles of rule of civil law government chosen by the consent of the governed.
Posted by: trailing wife   2019-05-24 01:08  

#1  This is how we create more terrorists. Every one of these innocents had relatives, and these relatives are now outraged at America's murders.

How would you feel if some foreign government killed your family? Say, Spahn? Well we know already, rage and demands for justice. Hmm, maybe Afghans feel the same?
Posted by: Herb McCoy    2019-05-24 00:40