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The Grand Turk
The Real Cost of Ejecting Turkey From the F-35 Program
2019-08-13
click on link to read whole article - short form:
[Stratfor] These variables loom at an inopportune moment. Turkey's decision to begin searching for hydrocarbons off the coast of ethnically divided Cyprus prompted the European Union to sanction Ankara because it considers the EU member's internationally recognized government in the Greek-majority southern part of the island nation to have exclusive rights to those Eastern Mediterranean waters. Turkey recognizes the Turkish Cypriot administration in the breakaway northern part of Cyprus and argues that any hydrocarbons found in the country's exclusive economic zone belong to all Cypriots; the government's drilling activities are only benefiting Greek Cypriots, Turkey says. While Turkey may have a valid point, its drilling activities are perceived to be hostile and belligerent. In the event of a conflict between Turkey and another European power, what will be the position of the United States? This is a clear unknown. In previous years, the United States has mediated and de-escalated contentious issues, but U.S. policy under Trump has resulted in regional disengagement. With the deepening bilateral U.S.-Turkey crisis, it is also clear that Turkey would not trust the United States to mediate if an unexpected conflict arises.

What is off the table for sure is Turkey being ousted from NATO. The F-35 debacle, however, will likely result in Turkey being removed from key NATO military programs, missions and intelligence platforms as the deployment of the S-400 system is a direct threat to NATO's operational security. Even if Trump holds off in pressing ahead with sanctions in the immediate term, such delay is unlikely to continue. Independent of Turkey, countries such as China and Egypt are also interested in purchasing the S-400 system. If they are not disincentivized by making a clear example out of Turkey, it could open the floodgates and allow allies to buy weapons that are not manufactured by the United States. Congress isn't likely to tolerate or accept this.

In the final analysis, the wider picture is clear: The loss of trust between the United States and Turkey is real and will be hard to soon reestablish in any substantive form. The question of whether the S-400s will actually be operational still stands, however.
Related:
F-35: 2019-08-02 Israel to conduct new offensives in Iraq soon: Newspaper
F-35: 2019-07-31 UK says 2018 was 'best year ever' for arms exports
F-35: 2019-07-31 Israel said to hit Iranian sites in Iraq, expanding strikes on missile shipments
Related:
S-400: 2019-08-03 The Turkish precedent
S-400: 2019-07-26 Turkey, Russia complete 1st part of missile defense delivery
S-400: 2019-07-24 Turkey Hints at Cutting Off Access to Incirlik if US Is 'Hostile' over S-400 Purchase
Posted by:3dc

#14  Re: #5 & #7: Could a nation involved a continual state of foreign conflict since the Korean War be offered as evidence, or is that purely coincidental?
I read The Grand Strategy of the Roman Empire: From the First Century A.D. to the Third by Edward N. Luttwak. There are parallels in the Late Roman Republic to our current actions. The Republican Romans exercised "preemptive paranoid self-defense" by mobilizing farmer soldiers, marching out to trample someone, and then demobilizing back to their homes. As Rome became more powerful they just found themselves more and more things to be paranoid about and the citizen soldiers had to be replaced by full-time professionals to "police the territories".
TL/DR: If you have a hammer you will develop an itch to go out and look for nails to bash...
Posted by: magpie   2019-08-13 12:52  

#13  What if the USA were following a policy to weaken Erdogan both politically and economically but one that does not break entirely with the Turkish polity, and thus the Turkish people?

If Turkey is to return to secular style of Ataturk, the secularists are going to have to outbreed the religious citizens. Or we can wait a generation until the Kurds have become the majority.
Posted by: trailing wife   2019-08-13 11:36  

#12  The loss of trust between the United States and Turkey is real and will be hard to soon reestablish in any substantive form.

As if I wasn't laughing hard enough yet, reading this article.

Jah sure lost that lucrative Patriot AAM contract drawn up with China. 8,000 units if I remember right, built in our hidden factory outside Caracas. Its where all that sweet Venezuelan electricity is going towards.
Posted by: swksvolFF   2019-08-13 10:58  

#11  Who says that China or Egypt want the F-35?
Posted by: BernardZ   2019-08-13 09:44  

#10  Whatever, the real problem is letting the islamic dicktatter having them.
Posted by: Woodrow   2019-08-13 09:41  

#9  Yippy, can autocorrect
Posted by: Frank g   2019-08-13 09:34  

#8  Turkey under Hippy has not acted as an ally. Severe simply quit pretending
Posted by: Frank g   2019-08-13 09:33  

#7  The Berlin Blockade prompted the reestablishment of a peacetime draft and the commitment to being a world policeman that was fundamentally fatal to the old Constitution and the rise of a permanent 'Deep State'. The previous 'war' experiences were marked by demobilization and return to the antebellum economic-political-social relationships when the emergency was over. Its not like small frequent local military operations were unusual, just ask the natives on the frontier. However, that was done by a small volunteer force often starved of resources. Their most vexing international problem was the attitude of the Mexican government in allowing sanctuary to the 'opfor' to operate out from (things don't change a lot).
Posted by: Procopius2k   2019-08-13 07:28  

#6  And what if, for once, the USA is taking the long view and is implementing a pragmatic policy -- one that is determined to outlast Erdogan? Recall, his loss of Ankara and Istamboul in the recent election shows that his Party's base is diminishing. What if the USA were following a policy to weaken Erdogan both politically and economically but one that does not break entirely with the Turkish polity, and thus the Turkish people?
Posted by: Chereting Pelosi1889   2019-08-13 07:22  

#5  Ref #4: US government is run for the benefit of weapons dealers.

Could a nation involved a continual state of foreign conflict since the Korean War be offered as evidence, or is that purely coincidental? Perhaps an examination of just the previous eighteen years would provide a more contemporary sampling.
Posted by: Besoeker   2019-08-13 05:13  

#4  "allow allies to buy weapons that are not manufactured by the United States."

You know, I used to ridicule leftists for saying shit like the US government is run for the benefit of weapons dealers. But fuck, you could not be clearer here. How dare they lose their sales! The US government is taking actions to directly benefit them.
Posted by: Herb McCoy    2019-08-13 04:49  

#3  So sell them F35s at inflated rates and have Lockheed introduce extra sensitivity in the fly-by-wire system. Add in the hypoxia inducing oxygen delivery.

Roll your eyes and ♪whistle when they crash them all over Ankara.
Posted by: Dron66046   2019-08-13 03:01  

#2  The analysis seems to miss the point that Turkey the Ottoman Empire wants Cyprus, Crete and -all- of the Eastern Mediterranean. From Cyprus/Crete SAM's and semi-stealthy F-35s would have made this ambition easier. Erdogan, like Adolph, got greedy.
Posted by: magpie   2019-08-13 01:59  

#1  what a thumbsucker of an analysis

the truth is Turkey doesn't really need the F-35 or the S-400 as no major power threatens them militarily

the principal threats to Turkey are

- Erdogan himself,
- ISIS, al Q, the PKK, maybe a few others

The F-35 doesn't protect against any of these

if and when Iran gets nukes and can strap them to a missile, that would be a threat also but even then the F-35 doesn't help and neither does the S-400

Posted by: lord garth   2019-08-13 00:12  

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