It's a bird. It's a plane. No, it's a bull moose hanging by its antlers from an electrical power line in the middle of the Alaska wilderness. In one of those only-in-Alaska stories that will shock even the sourest of sourdoughs, a trophy-sized bull moose was accidentally strung up in a power line under construction to the Teck Pogo gold mine southeast of Fairbanks. The moose apparently got its antlers tangled in electrical wire before workers farther down the line pulled the line tight about two weeks ago. The moose was suspended 50 feet in the air when workers, recognizing something was wrong, backtracked and found it.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/19/2004 6:11:59 PM ||
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"because they were worried the moose, already stressed, would die and the meat would not be salvageable as a result of the drugs."
not real big on "catch & release" up north, are they
'Spider-Man' Strikes Again, Climbs 47-Story Building
POSTED: 3:14 pm EDT October 19, 2004
UPDATED: 3:56 pm EDT October 19, 2004
PARIS -- Dressed in a Spider-Man suit and using no ropes or other equipment, a French urban climber scaled the 47-story headquarters of oil giant Total on Tuesday, his second Parisian climb in less than a month.
Alain Robert, 42, who has long called himself "Spiderman," climbed the 614-foot building, located in the La Defense office park on the western edge of Paris, in just 25 minutes.
After his ascent, Robert had to pay a visit to the local police station for his feat but was released without being charged or fined, he said later.
Robert, who is renowned for climbing without ropes or other equipment, has also scaled the Eiffel Tower and more than 30 skyscrapers around the world, including New York's Empire State Building in 1994 and the Petronas Twin Towers in Kuala Lampur, Malaysia in 1997.
On Sept. 22, he scaled the 59-story Montparnasse Tower. At 689 feet, it is higher than the Total building -- which he scaled in April 2003 to protest the war in Iraq.
The building was then the headquarters of TotalFina Elf.
Posted by: David ||
10/19/2004 10:16 ||
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Link is messed up, but recoverable. The content / proof, however, is - shall we say - thin to non-existent. Sadly, I must remain undecided. Really spiffy try, however. Do you code HTML for a living?
But, more importanltly, David, do you poop here often?
What's a day at Rantburg without some poor third world guy getting his johnson hacked off.
PHNOM PENH, Cambodia - A Cambodian woman stabbed her husband's penis with a knife during an argument in which she accused him of being a violent drunk, police said Monday. Whereas it looks like the wife doesn't appear to need the booze to get violent.
Tuy Narin, 35, attacked 37-year-old Chhun Saran earlier this month in Kandal province near the capital Phnom Penh, said Mang Penh, a local police officer. Tuy Narin called her husband a drunkard, prompting him to retaliate by throwing a sandal at her, Mang Penh said. Tuy Narin's mother and two sisters then wrestled the outnumbered husband to the floor and his angry wife stabbed him with a knife, the police officer said. A tag team! Jesus, no wonder the guy drinks.
The victim, who appeared to have been drinking, required seven stitches at a local hospital but the injury was "not life-threatening," he added. However, it could be "life changing"...
The assault happened on Oct. 9, according to Koh Santepheap (Island of Peace) newspaper. Might wanna rethink that name.
Chhun Saran withdrew a complaint against his wife after relatives intervened and urged the couple to reconcile, Mang Penh said. I'll bet you Chun has learned to sleep with one eye open...
Posted by: tu3031 ||
10/19/2004 10:13:47 AM ||
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And all the penises are asking, "Southeast Asian women -- why do they hate us?"
Posted by: Jonathan ||
10/19/2004 10:50 Comments ||
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Once men are housebroken, they make great pets. ;-p
(However, lay a hand on me and you will be singing soprano. If you're lucky, it won't be permanent.)
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/19/2004 12:02 Comments ||
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#5
With names like that no wonder they're drinking and stabbing. Are nerve gas names based on Cambodian family names?
Notice how "relatives" pinned him when she stabbed him, and again "relatives" urged the couple to reconcile. Wonder which part they stabbed the second time around.
#6
Question: "Why do guys give a cute nickname to their penis?"
Answer: "Because they hate to have all their important life decisions being made by a stranger!"
#8
Feet = dirty = insult. Big medicine in many parts, including the ME and SE Asia. Pointing with your foot or stepping over someone is a major insult in Thailand / Cambodia.
#9
Too funny. Of course, they are such sticklers for cleanliness over there-we all know they are the only reason Dial, Sure, and Secret haven't filed for bankruptcy.
Just like the game that seemed it would never end, Boston's season just won't end. David Ortiz's RBI single on the 471st pitch of the game with two outs in the 14th inning capped a second straight amazing comeback in less than 24 hours Monday night and gave the Red Sox a 5-4 victory over the New York Yankees in the AL championship series.
And after they tied the game in the 8th inning, my %@#&*! local Fox affiliate switched to the Astros-SL game! Bastards!
Posted by: Steve ||
10/19/2004 9:10:31 AM ||
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The two best back to back games I've ever seen.
#5
Will never top Dave Bergman's World Series effort for Detroit in 1984. In ninth inning, he fouled off seven pitches, then hit the next one out of the park to take the game from San Diego.
The government lashed out Monday at Haiti's interim prime minister, denying allegations that South African President Thabo Mbeki has allowed Haiti's ousted president to coordinate violence in the Caribbean country from his refuge here.
"No! No! Certainly not! Who? Us? Pshaw!"
Posted by: Fred ||
10/19/2004 9:04:38 AM ||
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Nous permettent cela ! Certainement pas !
Mbeki is a neo-commuinist. He certainly would allow his buddy Aristide to get away with such nonsense. Look what he ignores right next door.
#3
Actually, I'm not quite sure about the "neo-" part, either. It seems to me he is a hard-line communist from waaaay back, part of the original, post-colonialist bunch. Can someone clarify this for us?
#4
No he is a "remade" commie. He and his pals went legit. Now thay have a real country to run and and economy to worry about. All the old commie thought was not a workable way to get and stay in power.
Mbeki was born in the Transkei region on June 18, 1942. His parents were teachers and members of the South African Communist Party, one of the leading anti-apartheid forces in South Africa. His father, Govan, was arrested with Mandela in 1964 for their political work.
Unlike Mandela and his generation of ANC leaders who were imprisoned, Mbeki is part of the generation of ANC leaders who spent the last decades of the apartheid era in exile. He began his tenure with the ANC Youth League at age 14. When the ANC was banned in 1962, Mbeki went into exile and continued his education. He received military training in Moscow and served as an ANC representative in several African countries before taking a place at the ANC headquarters in exile in Lusaka, Zambia.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/19/2004 11:08 Comments ||
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No he is a "remade" commie. He and his pals went legit. Now they have a real country to runruin and economy to worry aboutdestroy. All the old commie thought was not a workable way to get and stay in power.
Shades of Rhodesia...Where are the Selous Scouts when you need them!
Russian President Vladimir Putin has promised that the authorities will make a resolute response to any manifestations of xenophobia and work on the establishment of democratic but strict migration rules. Speaking at the second session of the All-Russia Azerbaijani Congress in Moscow on Tuesday Putin said since such acute problems as xenophobia had been mentioned, there must be a reason for that. "This indicates we make some mistakes in our work. We must analyze the situation and make a tough response. The government policies will be aimed at preventing such manifestations in the most consistent and tough way," Putin said. He called for remembering the interests of those who have been historically resident in this or that country. "We must take into consideration the interests of those people who never travel anywhere, and who stay at home all the time," Putin said. "We must create and master the use of an up-to-date, democratic, strict law regulating all spheres of our activity, including migration," he said. Putin said Russia was interested in a competent migration policy in the CIS space. "Russia is interested in ensuring the freedom of travel in the post-Soviet space. We must teach the people to respect the laws of the host country."
"R - E - S - P - E - C - T, I'll teach you what it means to me!"
The Russian president believes that no state would be able to cope with this task effectively on its own, without support from non-governmental organizations. "Of course, we'll make an exception for Chechens."
Posted by: Dar ||
10/19/2004 2:41:20 PM ||
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When Russian President Vladimir Putin visited China, who really got what? Who were and are the winners in the short term and the long run? Russia got a chunk of territory and China's endorsement of Moscow's World Trade Organization (WTO) entry; China did not get a coveted pipeline but there were a spate of mutually beneficial economic accords. Still, China takes the long view and figures that it will come out on top. It may take 20 years, strategic analysts calculate, but China sees itself the winner. Continued at link. Lengthy, but very interesting!
Posted by: Dar ||
10/19/2004 2:50:46 PM ||
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The Fraser Institute says the wait times for elective surgeries in Canada are at their peak. The Vancouver-based think-tank has released its latest study on hospital wait times and the report says the average time between being referred by a doctor to getting surgery is now 18 weeks. People in B.C. wait a week longer than the average, while Saskatchewan residents have the longest wait at 33 weeks. Those living in Manitoba have the shortest wait times in the country — just under 15 weeks...
Scrappleface Alert! But you should already know that - a Scott Ott classic!(2004-10-19) -- Previously unseen documents released by the Kerry-Edwards campaign today reveal a secret Bush administration plan to draft the elderly into military service.
"If George W. Bush wins this election, I warn you that he will kill two birds with one stone," said John Forbes Kerry, the Democrat presidential candidate. "He'll bail out Social Security by sending our nation's grandparents to the front lines in Iraq to die in the wrong war."
Mr. Kerry, who is also a U.S. Senator, said, "Senior citizens are patriotic, plentiful and many of them still have their old military uniforms and vintage rifles from World War II and Korea. It's a cynical scheme, and that's why this administration is hiding it until January."
According to details of the secret Bush plan, backdoor-drafted National Guard and Reserve troops will come home rapidly as they're replaced by five divisions of combat-ready "geriatric GIs."
To date, the Pentagon has not specifically denied the existence of the alleged secret plan dubbed 'Operation Joint Replacement.'
President Bush, asked to respond to the Kerry allegation during a campaign stop, said, "This is the first I've heard of it. But we don't need to draft our seniors. If we'd let 'em, they'd volunteer. Next question."
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/19/2004 10:07:58 PM ||
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More voter registration hijinx from those hilarious Dem practical jokers! Edited for brevity.
Students at the University of Central [Florida] and two community colleges claim they were duped into switching their party affiliations from Democrat to Republican, campus police officials said Tuesday. Fewer than 10 students have filed reports with UCF police saying they were approached by a middle-aged couple in the student union who asked for support in changing child molestation laws. The students filled out a form that asked for personal information, and some time later they received a notice from the county election supervisor's office that their party affiliation had been changed, said Sgt. Troy Williamson, a spokesman for the UCF police. Similar incidents have occurred at Valencia Community College in Orange County and Seminole Community College, Williamson said. "They thought they were signing a petition to change child molestation laws," Williamson said. "They didn't realize they had changed their political party." All the cases involved Democrats being switched to Republicans, Williamson said. He added that the party switch wouldn't affect their ability to vote in the Nov. 2 election.
Posted by: Dar ||
10/19/2004 3:57:10 PM ||
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#1
Read before signing, genius.
Is taking advantage of the intellegence challenged a crime?
#3
Of course, changing party affiliation means absolutely nothing after party primaries have been held. They could have been switched to Communist, Green, or Gumby Party and it wouldn't have mattered. So what's the big deal?
#5
I call bullshit. This has all the earmarks of an urban legend, given that it isn't a simple one-line form to change one's party affiliation. Note that this story seems remarkably similar.
#6
fallous, it only makes sense if they were getting paid for each new regsitrant that they signed up. They probably asked, "are you registered" and if they said, "yes" then they pretended they were signing them up for the molestation thing to get their name and address. That way, it was recorded as a "change" and thus a legitimate registration. By the time any of the duped got their notice from the registrar, the couple had their money and was long gone.
All the republicans were probably smart enough to read what it was they were signing.
Otherwise, it's like you say, probably just an urban legend. There would be no reason for anyone to take the trouble to change someones party affiliation at this point in the game. But maybe the dem's spreading this rumor are too stupid to know that.
#8
I'm surprised the gut reaction of several people is that these students were too stupid to read what they were signing. If you're getting paid (in cash or crack cocaine, whatever your preference) to register new Dem voters, all you need is some personal information to fill out a card and fraudently change someone's affiliation. Name, address, possibly SSN, and a signature you can fake--assuming the people processing the cards will really take the time to verify signatures--and drop it off. Voila!
I can easily believe these kids signed a petition and their info was copied to individual registration cards. That doesn't verify the story, but I can believe they were duped by signing something that read completely different. A petition listing info for several dozen people would be hard to confuse with a registration form for an individual.
Posted by: Dar ||
10/19/2004 17:27 Comments ||
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They probably asked, "are you registered" and if they said, "yes" then they pretended they were signing them up for the molestation thing to get their name and address
Dar..I suppose I was being a bit rude when I said that Dems were too stupid to read it...but it was supposed to be a joke. Apparently not as snarky as I'd thought.
If the people that they encountered said they weren't registered, then they may have tried to register them. But if they said yes, they were registered, then my point was that the couple most likely maximized their profits by getting their names and addresses off the petition. Maybe they guessed that students were most likely to be democrats and thus modified them all to Republicans in order to qualify for their cash/crack/whatever.
Ah well...it's all speculation anyway. Doesn't really matter.
EFL
Mary Poppins. Jeffrey Dahmer. Janet Jackson. Chad Staton. Defiance County elections officials were confident the first three hadn't moved to their small community. But the fourth one lived there, and - in exchange for crack cocaine - tried to falsely submit the first three names and more than 100 others onto the county's voter registration rolls, police said. Now Mr. Staton, 22, of Defiance, faces a felony charge of false registration in a case that has quickly gained national attention as part of a hotly contested presidential battle that's attracted a flurry of new voter registrations across the country - and a flurry of complaints of voter registration fraud.
Defiance County Sheriff David Westrick said that Mr. Staton was working on behalf of a Toledo woman, Georgianne Pitts, to register new voters. She, in turn, was working on behalf of the NAACP National Voter Fund, which was formed by the NAACP in 2000 to register new voters. Sheriff Westrick said that Pitts, 41, of Toledo, admitted she gave Mr. Staton crack cocaine in lieu of cash for supplying her with completed voter registration forms. The sheriff declined to say how much crack cocaine Pitts supplied Mr. Staton, or to say whether Pitts knew that the forms Mr. Staton gave her were falsified. More at Link
#1
Dunno 'bout that meth lab-- you might have to wait til next week before the Donks get that desperate-- but right now they're handing out pill boxes with the Kerry/Edwards logo on them; perfect place to keep your stash. (Link via Drudge)
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/19/2004 13:31 Comments ||
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NewsMax: Top Republicans in Washington are trying to determine whether or not John Kerry received an honorable discharge from the Navy, the reporter who's taken the lead in probing Kerry's naval records said Sunday. "I've already received an indication from high-ranking Republican officials that, basically, there is a major effort going on in Washington to find proof" of the type of discharge Kerry received, New York Sun reporter Thomas Lipscomb told WABC Radio's Steve Malzberg. Last week, Lipscomb quoted a spokesman for Sen. John Warner, who was secretary of the Navy at the time, as saying his boss "has no recollection that would either confirm or challenge any representation that Senator Kerry received a less than honorable discharge."
Translation: "This thing is so radioactive I'm not getting anywhere near it!"
And Kerry campaign spokesman David Wade hasn't responded to Lipscomb's inquiries on the matter.
A document on Kerry's Web site says he was honorably discharged in 1978. But his actual separation from the service was in 1972.
We noticed
The Kerry document is a form cover letter in the name of the Carter administration's secretary of the Navy, W. Graham Claytor. It describes Kerry's discharge as being subsequent to the review of "a board of officers." Notes Lipscomb: "This in it self is unusual. There is nothing about an ordinary honorable discharge action in the Navy that requires a review by a board of officers."
This fits with the rumors that Kerry received a less-than-honorable discharge. When Jimmy Peanut pardoned the Vietnam draft dodgers, Kerry (a up and coming democrat) had his discharge status changed.
Because so many Navy documents from that era have subsequently been destroyed, Lipscomb said, the only evidence of the circumstances of Kerry's 1972 separation would be in national security records.
But technically they're protected - up to a point. Lipscomb said there's always the possibility that someone would leak Kerry's records. "Remember what happened to Linda Tripp?" he reminded Malzberg. "She had a juvenile conviction that was supposed to be expunged from the records. ... But one of the Department of Defense Clinton employees proceeded to out her national security file."
Bush won't play that game, I'll bet quiet orders went down to seal those records double tight. Now, if one of the board members remembers......
Lipscomb says the jury is still out on Kerry's Navy discharge until further evidence emerges. "I'm kind of sitting here, hanging in the breeze, trying to sort this out - waiting for somebody to talk, some document to pop," he said.
This is why Kerry won't release his records, there has to be something really dirty in there.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/19/2004 9:43:01 AM ||
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I correspond with someone who is a staffer for a U.S. Senator who has alluded to the fact there is something "negative" about Kerry that is TS and can't be discussed. But its there. I say he was discharged less than honorably because he met with the "enemy" during his service as an officer (regardless if it is active or inactive, still an officer of the USN). Maybe its not more than a General under Honorable but my bet it is a BCD but not a Dishonorable.
#3
My understanding was that a General Discharge received during Viet Nam under Carter was nearly automatically upgraded to an honorable if the serviceman applied for the upgrade. All other upgrades would have to be vetted by a board of some sort.
So, my thinking is that Kerry most likely received a general dischange then later had it upgraded to an honorable, however, having the Sec. of the Navy involved with it it is possible that Kerry's seperation may not even been a General Discharge.
#10
CBS-Rather will have to authenticate the documents, though. That could take some time, given the 5 year claim on the TANG fraud. I think 2 weeks will hardly be sufficient for them to give their 24K solid gold imprimatur.
#11
I would guess that "unfit for command" came from a fitness report, rather than being a reason discharge.
This may be two bombshells. One that his fitness report said, "unfit for command". And another that he was not given an honorable discharge, due to his consorting with the enemy and his attending talks to kill a sitting Senator.
You can be "unfit for command" and still be an officer who will not ever be given "command". I know of someone that happened to.
Let's see: Your opponent is characterizing you as an effete internationalist willing to "turn America's national security decisions over to international bodies or leaders of other countries." In particular, he suggests, in all seriousness, that you want to call up Jacques Chirac for permission before deploying the military. At the Republican National Convention, you were portrayed as a beret-wearing poodle named "Fifi Kerry." How should you defend yourself against these slanders?
Ce n'est pas une 'calomnie,' il est une critique.
By speaking French on the stump, of course. . . .
Well, they don't call him a "haughty, French-looking Massachusetts Democrat" for nothing, I guess!
(Translations by "Babel Fish.")
Posted by: Mike ||
10/19/2004 9:56:03 AM ||
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My wife speaks French fluently. She says it is pigin French like schoolboys may speak and is too accented. Actually, the best French spoken is very montonal and lacking stress.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
10/19/2004 10:28 Comments ||
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Of course it ain't possible to know what he said. French is a nuanced language, perfect for diplomats and elite knowers of what is. You won't hear him say it, but Kerry'd really like to talk French all the time.
#4
Ah. That explains everything, lol! He's finished. Good. I was worried he was still rather adolescent with serious Mommy things going on after that third debate. Whew! Close one.
#5
If Kerry went to a Swiss school in Zug, he may have learnt Schwyzerdutsch, not French (as in Gruezi! not Bonjour!). And if he learnt French in Zug, well, hmmm... hahaha.
#6
Since Kerry went to a Swiss finsihing school, does that make him one of those "elite knowers of what is"?
Posted by: Carlos ||
10/19/2004 12:24 Comments ||
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#7
Angie Schultz
Most Haitians speak creole. It is nearly impossible to understand for a French speaker, even for a native one (much harder than understanding Portuguese for a Spaniard). I don't think that someone far less used to hearing French and with a smaller vocabulary, like an American senator, could have any chance to understand creole from his "imported" French.
#8
I went to the Haiti section of Smithsonian folk life festival, they had signs in English, French,and Haitian Creole. It was fun seeing how much (written) Creole I could understand with my schoolboy French. In some cases it was simply a matter of figuring out the funky spelling. My impression is that most Creole speaking Haitians can understand standard French, at least to some degree.
#9
Kerry's French is insufficiently deep for him to understand that when he says that French and German military "help is on the way," the French laugh at him.
In their eyes, a poseur's even worse than a cowboy. Kerry is another Jimmy Carter, and even if he were elected, would be treated with the same degree of contempt that Schmidt and Giscard had for that other naif.
#10
The distinction between Creole and French in Haiti depends on your social status: Middle class haitians and upwards can speak Creole, and take great pride in speaking French very well. I am aware of two people who were born and raised in Haiti who postitively astounded even fussy Parisians on how elegantly and well they spoke French.
The best french, by the way, is NOT spoken in Paris, but in Touraine: All the best french radio and TV announcers are Tourangeaux, and even the Parisians, in rare fits of honesty, cede that better French was spoken on the docks of the Loire than in Versaille.
Ohio authorities say a man was charged Monday with filling out more than 100 fictitious voter registration forms, some in names such as Disney character Mary Poppins and circus freak washed-up pop singer Michael Jackson. Chad Staton, 22, of Defiance County in northwestern Ohio, was to receive money for each registration form he could persuade potential voters to fill out, said Sheriff David Westrick. Instead, Staton, himself, filled out the forms and returned them to the Toledo woman who hired him. Sheriff's deputies allege he was paid in crack cocaine instead of money.
Must have been smoking crack while filing out the forms.
Staton had his first court appearance Monday on a felony charge of false registration, and was released on his own recognizance. He has another court appearance scheduled for Friday.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/19/2004 9:28:49 AM ||
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I am insane, I am insane, I AM INSANE!!!!
Former Vice President Al Gore, who lost the bitterly contested 2000 election, is warning of a repeat of the recount nightmare in Florida. ``The widespread efforts by Bush's political allies to suppress voting have reached epidemic proportions,'' he charged yesterday. ``Some of the scandals of Florida four years ago are now being repeated in broad daylight even as we meet here today.'' One heartbeat away for 8 years. If that don't scare you, nothing will.
He said the Bush team used an Enron jet to ferry ``their rent-a-mob to Florida in 2000 to permanently halt the counting of legally cast ballots.'' Was Halliburton's jet booked up?
In a stinging indictment of his former rival, Gore accused Bush of forbidding dissent, disdaining facts and ignoring his mistakes in a ``recklessness that risks the safety and security of the American people.It is love of power for its own sake that is the original sin of this presidency,'' Gore said in a speech at Georgetown University sponsored by the liberal group MoveOn.org. I see THE EVIL KARL ROVE BEHIND EVERY TREE!!!
But Bush campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt said, ``Al Gore seems intent on shattering whatever minuscule credibility he has left with baseless, mean-spirited personal attacks and conspiracy theories.'' "Miniscule" credibility? Is there anything smaller then that?
He passed nano credibility a long time ago. He's now working at the subatomic level.
Posted by: tu3031 ||
10/19/2004 9:35:37 AM ||
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Al Gore has gone insane. So has his party. Which is a good part of the reason it's no longer my party.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/19/2004 10:06 Comments ||
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#2
The mind is a terrible time to waste!
He is paranoid and that is the extent of what I learned in Psych 101. But it fits perfectly.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
10/19/2004 10:30 Comments ||
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#3
This is more of the pre-emptive strike logic. They are actively engaged in trying to steal the election via massive registration fraud, squealing about intimidation (think: Nader), attempts to cause a system breakdown with piles of crap registrations at the last second, harrassment and real attacks on Pub offices, etc.
Scream the charge you're guilty of at your opponents first. It keeps the water nice 'n muddy so you can go one about your nefarious business. Dhimmidick Strategy 101.
It can only go lower / get worse in these last 2 weeks - the polls aren't cooperating with the Master Cylinder's Plan.
#7
"Scream the charge you're guilty of at your opponents first."
In my mind, the most egregious and disgusting example of this has been the Democrats' incessant complaining that Bush is "divisive".
He isn't, but they sure as Hell are.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/19/2004 11:34 Comments ||
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#8
.com it's like I have been saying Sorros will spend as much as it takes to steal the election. I just hope Rove and company are meaner and more cut throat in that case.
The dems are going to have lawyers that chalenge every vote for Bush and harass every registered Republican when they show up to vote. I am voting absentee so my vote can't be monkeyed with electronicly as my county bought those diebold machines with no paper back up. I in fact signed up to be a permanate absentee.
This whole deal is going to get ugly. I just hope we can hang together as a Republic whatever happens. I am keeping my powder dry and am ready to dissappear for 4 years if I have to.
#10
SPo'D - Check out Guadalajara Mexico, Panama, and Thailand. If Skeery wins, I'm taking every fucking dime with me to one of those places to sit him out.
#14
Kalle :
0.1 = 10-1 deci d
0.01 = 10-2 centi c
0.001 = 10-3 milli m
0.000 001 = 10-6 micro µ
0.000 000 001 = 10-9 nano n 0.000 000 000 001 = 10-12 pico p
Gore is then sort of like "Little Cat Z" in "The Cat in the Hat Comes Back"
Little Cat Z who is too small to see, so don't try, you cannot...
I might disagree with some of Bush's policies, but I've never once doubted he's a genuinely good human being. All of this "Bush is Hitler" garbage kills me. Too much inappropriate equivocation from ignorant people. God bless Dubya. And Laura. I just can't see Kerry or his wife doing this. And that't not meant to be a bash. I just cannot see them caring about anyone but themselves.
#8
Yeah, Shipman, he had to have seen it. It's obviously the camera used for whatever show he was getting ready to do (notice he's on the set - the neutral background and the decorative plant behind him - not in a dressing/makeup room).
The story that goes with this video said that it's the satellite feed that goes out before (and after, I suppose) the actual show. Notice at the end the sound guy hooks up the lapel mike and the camera operator tests the zoom.
He's been on TV enough he had to have known about this, and had to have seen the red light on the camera.
I think he's just so vain and self-centered, and this behavior is so automatic, he didn't even think about it.
Bet he will after this, but it's a little late to close that barn door. The shiny pony has already gotten out. :-D
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/19/2004 20:27 Comments ||
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TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) - People who cast provisional ballots at the wrong precinct are not entitled to have their votes counted, the Florida Supreme Court ruled Monday, rejecting an argument by labor unions that the rule wrongly disenfranchises voters. In an unanimous ruling, the court said the law clearly states provisional ballots must be counted only if the person was entitled to vote "at the precinct," and that the constitution gives the Legislature the authority to dictate voting rules.
Under Florida law, if voters show up at a polling place but officials there have no record they are registered, they are given provisional ballots. Those ballots are held until officials determine if the voters were entitled to vote at that precinct and had not already cast ballots. If they should have been allowed to vote at that precinct, the ballots count; if not, they are thrown out.
A group of labor unions sued over the ballot law, saying it unconstitutionally disenfranchised voters who are door knob stoopid may not know their polling place. They argued that many people have new polling places because of redistricting, may have moved, or may have been displaced by a hurricane. The court disagreed, saying that requiring provisional voters vote at the correct precinct is no more unreasonable than requiring that everyone else vote at the right polling place.
The Florida court's ruling contradicted a ruling last week by a federal judge in Ohio. U.S. District Judge James Carr blocked a directive requiring poll workers to send voters to their correct precinct, ruling that Ohio voters can cast provisional ballots as long as they are in the county where they are registered. Ohio's secretary of state is appealing.
Howard Simon, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union in Florida, which supported the plaintiffs in the Florida case, said the precinct requirement is a remnant of an outdated system. "This is like saying you can only do your banking in this building downtown," Simon said. "What we're seeing here is the difficulty of trying to drag Florida kicking and screaming out of the horse and buggy era."
By why bother going to the legislature to change the law when you can cast about for a sympathetic judge?
Meanwhile, a state judge in Colorado on Monday upheld a new rule requiring that voters produce identification before being allowed to vote. District Judge Morris B. Hoffman said the voter identification requirement serves a valid purpose, and Congress has insisted states crack down on voter fraud.
Also Monday, Hoffman overturned a rule that prevented voters who request provisional ballots on Election Day from voting if they had earlier requested an absentee ballot. Hoffman ruled those voters may cast provisional ballots at their precincts if they swear they did not turn in the absentee ballot. Before counting the provisional ballot, election officials would have to confirm that the person had indeed voted legally.
Pete Maysmith, program director of the plaintiff public interest group Common Cause, said he was disappointed by the ID ruling, which he warned could reduce voter turnout, but had not decided whether to appeal. He called the absentee-ballot ruling "a terrific victory" that will allow more Coloradans to vote more than once.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/19/2004 1:22:46 AM ||
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#1
A freeking amazing why would showing a valid ID be a problem? How the hell can you live in modern society without one?
Let me see I need to find out out were I am supposed to go and vote I can call the registrar and get the info over the phone. DUH.
The only people worried about this crap want to steal an election. The stuffing of the balot boxes by the Dems has already started. George Sorros is footing the bill.
#4
True eLarson and it will also tend to suppress the vote among those who are dead, those who regularly vote in multiple precints, and other similar folks.
#5
Any act of voter fraud should be considered treason and punished with death. It is an act after all, designed to damage our country in a time of war. Is there any act of rebellion more destructive without the use of arms than voter fraud? No. Now, doing this would of course, eliminate the entire Democratic party, but I can live with that.
#6
Lots of voters don't drive, thus don't have photo ID driver's licenses. But my state, and I would guess all others, do provide for you to go to the DMV and get a plain old photo ID. Of course you have to submit some documents proving you are who you say you are.
This seem to a real barrier for some people, not that I have an ounce of sympathy. If they can't haul fat ass down to DMV then they shouldn't be allowed to vote. They use the day to exchange tips on welfare hustles and scams but can't figure out how to get valid photo ID?? The latest scam in Florida is all the phony hurricane claims paid out to the po' via FEMA. Such as claiming water damage in your dwelling and damage to your beat up old junker was caused by falling tree limbs.
#7
Pete Maysmith, program director of the plaintiff public interest group Common Cause, said he was disappointed by the ID ruling, which he warned could reduce voter turnout
The Colorado DMV also issues photo IDs (but not to illegal aliens) thus reducing "voter" turnout.
Thank you Judge Hoffman!
Posted by: Football Fan ||
10/19/2004 11:04 Comments ||
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#8
#6 Dennis W: "This seem to a real barrier for some people, not that I have an ounce of sympathy. If they can't haul fat ass down to DMV then they shouldn't be allowed to vote. They use the day to exchange tips on welfare hustles and scams but can't figure out how to get valid photo ID??"
See http://boortz.com for more on your concept. Neal Boortz (Libertarian voting for Bush this year/AM radio show host in Atlanta) has a good point on this. He says that anyone gaining financial benefits from living off the gov't dime should not be allowed to vote and only those who pay taxes (fund the welfare recipients) should be able to vote...like allowing those who pay the bills decide where the money goes vs. those who get "free" benefits take what they get. Good insight. He's also argued for allowing everyone to vote once and then giving additional votes dependent on how much you pay in taxes (like 1 additional vote for every $10k you pay in federal taxes). Interesting concept and he cites the Constitution on this one (the Amendment only bars the gov't from keeping people from voting based upon race, religion or ethnicity). Maybe there should be a test (like "Who is you Federal Representative and who are your two Senators?") before allowing someone to vote. I don't know what the answer is to this problem, but when almost 50% of the population has NO Federal income tax liability at all...I don't know that they should be allowed to vote (they only vote for their self interest...not what's best for the nation).
Posted by: BA ||
10/19/2004 11:45 Comments ||
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#9
BA - I agree I think people on Welfare should not be allowed to vote. If you dont contribute you dont vote. Seniors (on Social security, pension, etc...) would be entitled to vote because they have already contributed.
And require people to register in person with valid picture id and proof of citizenship (Birth Certificate / passport / erc..). Unless they have a valid reason (confined to a bed, etc...).
#11
Lets see BA,according to your post THK's would be between 50,000 and 100,000 votes.That is some siriously flawed Democracy.Why don't we just use the"Starship Troopers"style of democracy.
#12
Raptor: I'm not saying those would be the specific numbers. And, it's just an idea on how to cut those who THRIVE off of my tax dollars from voting themselves MORE of my tax dollars. Read an interesting book on the tax situations in Colonial U.S....did you know that the Boston Tea Party was over a 2% import tax? Two percent! My how the founding fathers would flip over 30-40% taxes! And, BTW, it would be based upon Adjusted Gross Income, of which sKerry and his wife reported LESS than Dubya (who reported somewhere in the neighborhood of $200k or so...don't remember exact numbers).
Posted by: BA ||
10/19/2004 12:36 Comments ||
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#13
No representation without taxation.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/19/2004 12:43 Comments ||
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#14
I would be all for the Starship Troopers method. Just make sure there aren't any big bugs OK.
#15
Mrs Davis - Damn good point. You dont pay - you dont play.
SPOD - I would go for a Starship Troopers approach too - or something like it.
I also think people should have to pay something (as in write out a check - no payroll withholding BS) for public school. Have it on a sliding scale or someting if you must but have the parents pay something so they value it.
Hell it would be worth it just to hear the Democrats howl....
FYI - The 'starship troopers' approach is that you have to 'earn' citizenship (and the right to vote) through actual civil service (as opposed to service at the charity of your choice) and/or service in the armed forces.
#16
Utterly ridiculous. THe polling places are open early and close late. And even if the election date inconveniences you, you can still vote early. My own city allows early voting between Oct 18 and Oct 29.
The only possible reason for one to complain about being required to vote where he lives is that it doesn't allow him to vote multiple times.
#19
A democratic government is the only one in which those who vote for a tax can escape the obligation to pay it. -- Alexis de Tocqueville Or...the USA will cease to be great when a majority of the voting public realizes it can vote itself someone else's money. -- RN
Posted by: RN 2004-10-19 1:09:45 PM
I seem to recall something about the Romans voting themselves bread and circuses . . .
Posted by: Jame Retief ||
10/19/2004 13:26 Comments ||
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#20
Even the French lost their collective heads over cake.
#21
SPOD - Same here - schools are funded via property taxes. I just think if people had to actually write out a check for schools they would value them (and education) more.
Just as if people had to actually write a check for their federal taxes (and not rely on 'unseen' payroll withholding) they would pay more attention to what the feds are blowing it on...
#22
Folks, this voting session is going to become an absolute nightmare. The LLL and Dems will use EVERY incident as an opening to bottle this thing up in the courts. They are concerned that they cannot win, so in the spirit of the ends justifying the means, they will sabotage the Nov vote if there is a chance of their candidate losing.
The thing that I worry about is that the LLL will destroy the credibility of the voting process. This arguing about objecting to having to show IDs is just another tool of the LLL to skew the voting process. Hell, you cannot even get on a plane without a government ID.
The thing that really burns my ass is that NEITHER party in Congress has demanded auditing of voting rolls nationwide that could eliminate fraud. The message of the absolutely sloppy method of registering voters and the incompetence of many voting officials is a bad message to send to our young people.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/19/2004 15:46 Comments ||
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#23
Would a mug shot count as "a state-issued photo ID?"
#24
"I'm too lazy to go down to the DMV and wait in line for an hour and get a free ID card. I'm also too stupid to figure out the directions to the polling place printed on the back of the sample ballot. Plus, standing in line for 30 minutes to vote is way too boring.
"But I am a concerned and involved citizen and My vote(s) should count."
Sure.
I actually vote on election day every time. It's just a 2-mile detour on the way to work and 5 minutes (primary) to 20 minutes (Presidential) to actually vote. The polls open at 0600 and I'm usually #001 or #002 (in 2000 I was #014). When I'm in line, I chat with the others (never about for whom we're voting) and just enjoy the common citizenship. The guy (or gal) next to Me could be a student or or an investment broker or a doctor or a Sargeant in the Air Force.
I would have no complains about proving My ID to vote. Heck, I have to show ID to pick up a package at the Post Office.
#25
A freeking amazing why would showing a valid ID be a problem?
It is illegal to ask for an ID in California...
On one of the few occasions I say we need FEDERAL INTERVENTION.
Congress could demand ID for all federal elections, but won't.
In California, the poll workers require the 1st person in line to visually inspect the ballot box, to be sure nothing is there, and then be a witness to it being locked...
I was #1 at the recall election, so it fell on ol' BigEd to look inside the box at LA County precinct 3850447. I commented, "All hanging chads cleaned out!" I could tell who was who - the Dems grunted, and the GOPs laughed under their breath. One of the poll workers, a neighbor, is a known GOP....
#26
Eric Holder is on TV for the DNC / Kerry folks right now telling how they will be in court regardless. They are talking for government by lawsuit. Talk about turning off the electorate.
No, they're talking about removing our last means of self-governance.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/19/2004 20:09 Comments ||
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#28
they're providing incentives to the Kausfiles' "landslide" voters. Many will be so turned off by the hijinx they'll vote for W (if it looks like he's winning in the polls) to avoid a legal squabble. As Hugh sez - they can't cheat if it's not close
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/19/2004 21:22 Comments ||
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A consultant to the Vatican has said Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry has incurred the penalty of excommunication from the Catholic Church.
(abortion and cooperating in it) " incurs excommunication latae sententiae,by the very commission of the offense..."
Its still possible to get forgiveness upon confession that is genuine. There is an entire ministry in the Catholci Church that exists to bring abortion supporters and their victims back into God's grace.
Archbishop Charles Chaput of Denver has made the case for this. Read his interview with the NY Times - the whole thing, not the cut n pasted job the NYT did,. The unabridged version is at www.archen.org
And this guy, if he is going tilting after windmills, he should get a few more Republicans "pro choicers" to his roster: Rudy Guliani is one I do not see named.
#5
I can see the logic of this, as long as it's modified to include every catholic who has ever had a abortion, used birth control, or has publicly expressed the opinion that it's OK for other people who aren't catholic to get an abortion.
Since I'm not catholic, I do have have a question. This is meant honestly, not with the slightest insult. First, does life begin at conception? Second, does the soul appear at conception? If this is so, why is it not acceptable to use birth control that prevents concepption in the first place? Also, 30% of all pregnancies end in spontaneous miscarriage. No fault of anyone. Does the church give last rites to these miscarriages? If not, are these souls denied heaven? A number of these first trimester miscarriages occus without the mother ever really knowing she was pregnant. What happens to these souls?
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 7:07 Comments ||
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#6
Excommunicated?
Does this mean he wont be able to communicate any more? No more speeches?? GREAT!!
Although we cannot know what happens to these souls, we can trust in Godâs mercy and have reason to hope that they are in heaven. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) explains: âAs regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them," allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.â (CCC 1261)
__________________
Jim Blackburn
Catholic Answers Apologist
An unscientific poll conducted by Catholic Answers Forum (10-13-04)
View Poll Results: Is it a sin to vote for John Kerry?
It is a mortal sin to vote for John Kerry 117 54.42%
It is a venial sin to vote for John Kerry 12 5.58%
Whether it is a sin depends on one's intentions 59 27.44%
It is no sin to vote for John Kerry 27 12.56%
#11
RN: Thank you for your honest answer. It's nice to see that it's possible to not know, which seems to me the essence of faith.
My own personal difficuly lies in the concept of original sin itself. Christianity makes the basic assumption that humans are born in sin, and cannot extricate themselves without outside help. Most other world religions see it the other way around, that we are born pure and corrupted by the world afterward. Makes for a whole different viewpoint, since if we are born pure, it is possible for us to remain so without anyone else's help. Not easy, not very probable, but at least possible. And it's up to us to keep trying, through an eternity of lives if necessary. Escape from rebirth comes from within. No, I don't beleive this literally. It's "as if".
I'm reminded of one of my favorite quotes from the novel Tom Jones: "We are all of us as god made us, and most of us a good deal worse."
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 8:07 Comments ||
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#12
Good to have this kind of action and discussion so close to Guy Fawkes Day. The Vatican's action is even less welcome than the Guardian's.
Furners, get a clue.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/19/2004 8:15 Comments ||
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#13
While we're at it, let's not forget that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith used to go by another name: The Inquisition. Name change I beleive in the 1860's, but still the same bunch of jolly guys.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 8:32 Comments ||
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#14
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Posted by: The Doctor ||
10/19/2004 8:40 Comments ||
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#15
As Stalin once asked, "How many Divisions does the Vatican have?"
#16
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition? You're probably right, but only because Cardinal Ratzinger can't figure out how to pull it off.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 8:52 Comments ||
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#17
Actually, the excommunication is automatic - thats what the latin in the first post I made says.
The Church does not excommunicate you in the case of abortion: by your own actions, YOU have exocommunicated yourself (like the law doesnt really make someone into a murderer - the person does so themselves by comitting the murder, and the law formalizes this at trial).
The only thing the Church does in the case of "latae sententiae" acts is recognize what you have done to yourself. You have already done the damag e- the Church isnt doing anything to you except formalizing the label you have placed on yourself and putting the persoin outside the graces of the Church until they genuinely confess and repent, and accept the everpresent forgiveness God offers to all sinners.
Also, the Spanish Inquisition is ancient history - and irrelevant, due to the reformation and the changes in the Church since that time. I suppose you hold the Salem witch hunts against modern day New England protestants, or the predations of Atilla against the Hungarians?
I know of no major religious system which says that man is born perfect. Original Sin of some form is present in Judiasm, Christianity and Islam, given their common roots (All come from Abraham, which links them to Adam), and in Buddhism and Hinduism, you are re-born according to karmic debt; even the Bodhisattvas had to achieve perfection instead of being born with it. The common root is that all believe you must believe in thier system and work hard to rid yourself of the stain of original sin. Christianity is unique in that it allows that original sin is removed by baptism and faith, not worldy works.
And regarding Cardinal Ratzlinger, it is his job to enforce the rules. If you dont bother enforcing the rules and laws, then why bother having a Church, or a nation for that matter? Nations and states put people in jail for breaking the laws. Even private groups will kick you out for violating the rules deliberately and repeatedly.
The difference is that the Church doesnt put people into jail, it just boots them out, and symbolically communicates to them the fact that they (ther person in question) have severed their relationship with God and His Body on earth (the Church) - the name for this state of a relationship is Excommunication. It means that you no longer have communion with the Church since you have breached the faith severely. Its not the Church, but the person and thier actions.
As for how many divisions the Pope has, he apparently has far more effective divisions than Stalin. After all the Soviet Union isn't around anymore, and the Church still is.
#19
I donb't hold the Salem witch hunts against the protestants, or the Inquisition against catholics. My point, if there was one, is that the job of the congregation for the doctrine of the faith is to root out heresy, which is it's job as the lineal descendant of the inquisition.
As to the question of man being born perfect: didn't say that. Nobody is perfect. Said man is born pure and without sin. Not the same thing at all. If man is born without sin, he can save himself, without need of a church to do it for him. Yes, you are reborn with karmic debt. If you didn't have any, you would have escaped rebirth. It's not considered sin in the way christians see it. It's the end point of actions taken in a previous life. The Bodhisattva achieves perfection through study and meditation on the teachings of the buddha. In doing so he becomes like a flame that has gone out. He is neither there or not there. It's not hooked up with original sin. Your idea that there is some common theme of original sin in eastern thought is just plain wrong. You insist on something that isn't true. Sorry. I've studied this stuff for almost 20 years, and it just doesn't work that way. What's the saying? Examine the mote in your own eye? Something like that.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 9:49 Comments ||
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#20
Wierd Al, to answer your question about contraception:
Remember God's commandment in Genesis to "be fruitful and multiply"? It was given to Adam, to Noah, and indirectly to Abraham and his descendants. It goes to the Catholic theology of sexuality. God gave us the pleasure of sex so as to encourage us to do it. Sexuality is a pleasurable, healthy and normal part of human behavior. You're supposed to have sex as part of marriage. This does, however allow you to abstain periodically - meaning if you use natural family planning, then you can attempt to choose when you will have a child as a couple. By the way, when practiced according to the training, NFP is as effective as birth control pills (google for it and read up if you like) without all the side effects. There are physicians, gynecologists and other professionals who teach this nation wide - for both "birth control" and fertility (if you know whent he most likely time of ovulation is, you can plan your activities around that time to enhance or reduce the chances of becoming pregnant).
But remember, the purpose God has behind sexuality is procreation. So the doctrine says that all sexual acts have to be open to the possibility of procreation to fulfill the responsibility behind the pleasure. And before you get into it, yes this means that anything the results in orgasm (of the male) other than vaginal intercourse is going against the rules - ruling out homosexual activity and oral sex to the point of orgasm (and no I dont know if oral sex is OK if you use it only as foreplay - ask a theologian on that). And as for post-menopausal sex, it is still open to procreation by way of the stories of ELizabeth in the New Testament, and Sarah in the old testament, who both bore important children (John the Baptist and Isaac repsectively) after menopause.
And that is pretty much the standard answer you will get in marriage counseling from a Catholic point of view, although probably said a bit better than what I said, and I may be wrong about the exact wording and nuances that I may have communicated here. (In other words, this is just an opinion, if you want the official position, go ask a priest or certified Catholic counselor).
#21
You contradict yourself: pure but not without defect?
Wierd Al, if you are not born perfect (without defect), then how can you be born pure (without contamination)? You are born with a burden of bad actions - in Buddhism/Hinduism its the karmic debt, in Judeao-Christian tradition its called original sin: the tendency Humans all have to act in destructive ways, in contravention to the laws of God and nature. Its illustrated every day, even by small children.
And you are talking to a Catholic who ran away from the Church for over a decade, of which I spent 5 years trying to be a Buddhist - Therevadist, not Mahayanist. When I got to the end of things, I saw, as the poet says, that "there was no 'there' there", yet something was still missing (the first cause, the Creator). But thats a matter of personal faith and not of much relevance other than to show you where I come from.
The question still stands. And I know all about the beam in my eye, I consult regularly about it - wonderful thing, Irish Catholic Guilt... As for the mote, I suggest you look to the beam in your eye instead as well - for you deny Him His very divinity.
From there we can agree to disagree. I'm not here to convert you but to explain and answer your questions. I do not intend to offend or preach - just to show you why Catholics do these things -and the nature of the "inside" reasons for what peopel outside the Church see when it comes to Catholic faith and politics.
And I could be mistaken: I am, after all, just a well meaning catechist, a lay person. To get the authoritative view, consult a local bishop.
#22
Um....well, Old Spook, that was a great answer as almost all of your posts are, but there's one tiny problem.
Yes, NFP can work almost as well as any other method....if you happen to have well-regulated cycles. A lot of women don't, especially as they get closer to menopause and your body gets a little weird with the changing hormone levels.
I kinda-sorta was one of those "oops" babies. Fortunately I was wanted, and my parents were more than able to take good care of me, but not every child born in that situation is.
I'm just amazed that the Vatican, according to this story, let some lay lawyer start the process instead of a priest or bishop. That's the weird, and frankly scary, part of this whole story. I'm no Kerry fan, but I don't relish the idea of my fellows in the pews deciding they are going to be defenders of my faith and going after other parishioners because they don't like any aberration from doctrine. I guess that shows just how low the bishops have sunk in the last few years. How depressing.
I guess if I get busted by my local church ladies while filling my pill prescription at the local Planned Parenthood I can expect the same damn thing, then.....
I believe this fellow brining these things tothe Ecclesiatical court is a bit of a grand-stander, and probably politically, not spiritually, motivated, given his list of "targets". The laws of the Church fully apply to ALL the faithful. the reformation certinaly should have taught Catholics that lesson.
My opinion is that these things are best handled between the Diocese of which the person in quesion is a member. This case before the ecclesiatical court shoudl have been a request for a GENERAL ruling, not one specifically about specific politicans. Then after the ruling comes, each diocese would be required to apply the decision to its members.
[cynical]
But that wouldn't make an opportune splash in a bit political season, would it?
[/cynical]
Bottom line for me is that Kerry knowingly, willingly and repeatedly broke the laws fo the Church, and by doing so placed himself outside the communion of the Church (ex-communicated himself). The Church has yet to formally state it, and this fellow is trying to selectively force the issue for political gain.
#25
John Kerry wants to portray himself as a Catholic who happens to disagree with church policy. Pardon an ignorant question, but isn't that the definition of a Protestant?
#26
Blondie, you have a valid point - one which my wife and I face now. But for younger people, NFP is effective and should be given preference in deference to your faith. I do recall hearing that if the hormonal pills are medically neccesary, that is, required as a medical treatment, even for younger women, then they are OK per Church doctrine. Birth control is usually doctrinal matter, not an immediately dogmatic one like abortion.
To give you an idea of my age, our son is joining the Marine Corps (and we got married later than most couples). So my wife and I are facing some irregularity in timing already. I don't have a good answer for that except to say that if we have another child, we welcome him or her as a gift. However, the doctor has suggested birth control pills as a medical treatment, a "theraputic regulator" for the menses (she's too young for hormone therapy just yet) - we will probably be asking the Archdiocese in which we live for a ruling if my wife decides that she has had enough with the irregularity - there is nothing in Church law that says you may not seek legitimate treatment for a medical condition - its along the lines of (although not as serious as) choosing chemotherapy for a cancer patient who has become pregnant.
As I said before, I'm no expert on the nooks and crannies, just the broad and general swat of Catholic catechism in these areas. So I'm asking for help where I need it, and maybe you could do the same if your being on "the pill" worries you in the least.
I boggle at the things Rantburg brings out into the public. I never thought I'd be diuscussing Catholic sexualtiy, birth control and a stranger's & my wife's menstrual cycle in public.
#27
OS: karma is not the result of bad action. It is the result of ALL action, nonaction, thought and nonthought, good and bad. Only indifferent action/thought is exempt. Therefore, it does not make man bad at birth. It only means he needs to move further along the path. To be pure is to be like an empty vessel, to be filled later. The concept of karmic debt is after all, only a concept, one that even true scholars have a little trouble with. Again, it is "as if", not necesarily physically true.
Theravedist. I am truly impressed. Not a touch of sarcasm. A very rough row to hoe, one that I didn't feel able to do. I'm not sure where I would place myself. The teaching I feel closest to is the Diamond Sutra, for what that's worth.
The problem with the first cause, is of course fundamental to the teaching of the Buddha, who generally refused to answer questions regarding such things as being basicly beside the point. To paraphrase: Whether there is a soul or not, whether there is a god or not, whether the universe is infinite or not, it is true that there is birth, suffering, pain, disease, old age, and death.
I've read in several religions, and I have found these concepts resonate for me. I also recognise that they would be extremely disturbing for many people, and honor that discomfort. So, we appear to be on the same page at this point.
With regard to birth control: the Dalai Lama agrees with you on the question of abortion. He has however said that he also understands the problem of overpopulation, and concedes the need for birth control. The question is whether sex is only for procreation, again something we appear to need to agree to disagree on.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 10:35 Comments ||
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#28
If man is born without sin, he can save himself, without need of a church to do it for him. Yes, you are reborn with karmic debt. If you didn't have any, you would have escaped rebirth.
seems to me you've got a bit of a contradiction there.
If one is born pure - ie: empty like a vessel, how is it that one also be born with the baggage of Karmic debt? Especially since if one didn't have any Karmic debt, they would have escaped rebirth? Karmic debt sounds like just another word for "sin" to me.
#30
2b: Again, karmic debt is first of all only a concept. Second, it is not the result of bad actions, it is the result of ALL non-indifferent actions and thoughts, good or bad. It's actually a carry-over from hindism, and gets a little complicated in buddhism, since hindus believe in a monad, and buddhists don't. You are trying to graft your concept of original sin onto a set of beliefs that don't agree with you. Original sin is not a law of the universe, it's a religious belief. What is so threatening about accepting that other people have other ideas?
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 10:54 Comments ||
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#31
Let's put it as simply as possible. If you are a buddhist, these can be no original sin,, because there is no sinner. If you understand this, you have entered the stream. If not, you need a teacher. I'm a student, and not qualified.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 10:59 Comments ||
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#32
In case the neocons hadn't noticed, this is AMERICA, not the vatican. Canon law is no better than Sharia and is NOT the law of the land. It's about Democracy. I'm sure the protestants will welcome John. One more sad example of Catholic idiocy.
Posted by: me ||
10/19/2004 11:10 Comments ||
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#33
You are trying to graft your concept of original sin onto a set of beliefs that don't agree with you
I'm not trying to do any such thing. You don't have any idea if I even believe in orginal sin or not. I'm just pointing out that you have a bit of a contradiction that, like members of other faiths, you can't explain, so you start quoting jingoisms and parsing semantics to explain it.
Bad..nonindifferent...whatever. According to you - actions, nonactions, nothingness results in one being reborn because of a Karmic "debt" which hopefully will..in time, need not be repaid.
Call it what you want...
Obviously you have spent 20 years into buying into the concept that a Karmic debt isn't really a debt ...it just nothing. Not a debt really, just a pure empty vessel. So carry on. No point in going further.
#34
2b: snotty when people don't agree with you. You haven't actually read the posts, you just have to prove how bitchy you can be. Religious concepts are just that: concepts. Take them literally if you want. Or not. I'm discussing what some of them are, not saying I agree with all of them. So try a christian one out: tell me all about the concept of the trinity in fifty words or less, and explain how one becomes three.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 11:27 Comments ||
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#35
Why, pray tell, are any non-Catholics posting on this thread? Jerking off for the camera, perhaps?
Obviously, this is their turf and their issue - and outsider opining serves no purpose whatsoever except self-gratification of the silly sort.
#37
oooh...drew some blood, did I? Since you chose to attack me personally and claim that I can't explain my faith, I take that to mean that you are incapable of explaining yours.
#40
Original sin and karma: Whether we are born with it or not, in Buddhism, conditioned existence is an overlay or obscuration of unconditioned existence, and everyone suffers from it until liberation, so for all practical purposes, Buddhism and Catholicism are strikingly similar on this subject.
#41
About the Spanish inquisition. How many people were burned in Spain during its 300 years of existence? 12,000. That is 40 per year. (To give a comparison: protestant europe burned 40,000 "witches" in a mere thirty years ie 1,300 per year.
Was it more prone to torturing than say,secular courts? When they were created, Inquisition courts, gave in fact _more_ guarantees than secular courts (like allowing the accusee to name people who had feuds with him and whose testimony would be disregarded) and prominent inquisitors warned against torture as leading to false confessions. The problem with Spanish inquisition was not its brutality but that it was still using the same methods in the XVIIIth century when people no longer considered them normal.
#43
OldSpook> Is pleasure supposed to be *always* a bonus granted by God for fulfilling an obligation towards him, or are there pleasurable activities that people can engage in without needing to be fulfilling a duty at the same time?
As for "be fruitful and multiply", even when I considered myself a Christian, I always saw that more as a blessing and less as a commandment. In part because it wouldn't jive with the unmarried clergy if it was a religious commandment. And now that I check out the Bible again, it does indeed say "God *blessed* them" when he was saying these things. Hmm.
#44
Heck all this deep and interesing comment. I am lucky I belong to no organized religion. I am ex methodist.
I just wonder again how many folks will vote for Bush over Kerry because of this issue. I know it will impact all serious Catholics. I grew up in the midst of them. This is serious stuff.
#46
agree spd. This will impact many Catholics that might have otherwise voted for Kerry. I think this WILL have a serious impact. It won't make the MSM, but it will make all of the Catholic religious chat sites, newsletters, etc ...and people who tune in to those types of things will be ones most swayed by this.
#47
In case the neocons hadn't noticed, this is AMERICA, not the vatican.
I do not think you understand the meaning of the term 'neo-con'.
>Canon law is no better than Sharia and is NOT the law of the land. It's about Democracy. <
Nobody ever implied that it was the law of the land. It is, however, what members of the R.C.C. are to follow. It's called "you play the game, you follow the rules".
I'm sure the protestants will welcome John.
'John' (nice to see you're on a first name basis with him) is free to go anywhere he likes.
One more sad example of Catholic idiocy.
Nonsense. If ones wishes to throw around the label 'Catholic', one must also assume the 'cross' that goes with it. It's not like being a libertarian, where one agrees with a vague philosophy, but varies wildly on the details.
#48
If ones wishes to throw around the label 'Catholic', one must also assume the 'cross' that goes with it
Pappy excellent point. To do so otherwise is as ridiculous as to claim that one is a Christian and then get miffed when someone points out that you are practicing the Muslim faith. Ok...a bit extreme of an analogy, but one is not born a "Catholic" any more than one is born a Red Sox fan. It's ultimately a choice that is followed by action.
#50
HV: "Original sin and karma: Whether we are born with it or not, in Buddhism, conditioned existence is an overlay or obscuration of unconditioned existence, and everyone suffers from it until liberation, so for all practical purposes, Buddhism and Catholicism are strikingly similar on this subject." Agreed. Just different end points. Christians go to heaven, buddhists attain Nirvana. Except I'm not sure how you have unconditioned existence.
2b: If you think HV made your point, more power to you. If you think I'm claiming to know "the truth", you understand even less of what I say than I thought. If that's possible.
If this is a thread only for catholics: a: what happened to free speech? and b: someone needs to let the catholic heirarchy know that they should stay out of our politics.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 12:36 Comments ||
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#51
Oh my, did I offend? So sorry. Your freedom of speech and onanistic exertions are intact - you're still posting, aren't you?
#52
If this is a thread only for catholics: a: what happened to free speech?
.com's point is that this is something that concerns Catholics and really should be discussed by them. It's like a thread between expectant mothers regarding pregnancy issues; a comment by me (a male whose kid entering junior high) about my experiences with pregnant women at Kids R' US is really just so much verbal onanism.
and b: someone needs to let the catholic heirarchy know that they should stay out of our politics.
Nonsense. The 'catholic heirarchy" [sic]
doesn't tell its members who to vote for, only what the Church doctrine is, and that voters should make choices based on that doctrine. One still has the free will to make a decision.
Mr. Kerry tried to have it both ways. He played up his Catholic membership card but went the 'disagreement' route because they were both politcally expedient. The Church, in a rare case of religious bravery, called him on it.
#53
Weird Al - I'm sorry, I was over the top. My only defense is that I did, indeed, want to know how the Catholics view this, assuming it's true. They are a very significant voting group of citizens - and thus it could have a serious impact on the most important election in my (long) lifetime. So I was uber-focused and short of patience.
#55
.com: actually, I'm interested to know what they think as well, since it probably will have an impact on the election. One of the nice things about postings like this is that 20 people can put something up at the same time. Statement #53 seen and forgotten. If we all agreed, where would be the fun?
Looking back to about #5, it appears that I'm the one who got this ball rolling in the first place. So, if people feel I've done wrong, then I apologise. It's just the I love a good rolling religious discussion and dive right in. I get assertive, even when I don't necessarily believe what I'm saying, just to see what peeks out from under the covers. For instance, who would have thunk a good Irish catholic boy like OS was once a theravidian? Grand fun.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 13:33 Comments ||
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#56
Vatican denies it responded to lawyer seeking Kerry's excommunication
By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service
"VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- An official at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith said a California canon lawyer seeking a formal decree of heresy against Sen. John F. Kerry of Massachusetts, Democratic presidential nominee, has misrepresented his contact with the Vatican office.
"The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has had no contact with Mr. (Marc) Balestrieri," said Dominican Father Augustine DiNoia, undersecretary of the congregation.
"His claim that the private letter he received from (Dominican) Father Basil Cole is a Vatican response is completely without merit," Father DiNoia told Catholic News Service Oct. 19, declining to discuss the matter further."
Never mind.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 13:55 Comments ||
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#57
WELCOME TO MY WORLD, BROTHER JOHN... HEH HEH HEH
#58
.com, speaking for the rest of my faith is a bit presumptuous, but I'll try.....
How are most of them going to react? Naturally, at first we want to know what happened to cause the supposed excommunication. As far as I know, he hasn't stated anything more than many other Catholic politicians have regarding abortion, and he is far from the first to be divorced, remarried and running for office.
THEN.....we're going to make up our own minds and vote the way we feel we should.
We are not some monolithic voting bloc that mindlessly follows what the priest says here in America. That's the old country way....
Our voting patterns are pretty much the same as the average American. We are a little bit more anti-abortion, and maybe a little less likely to support the death penalty, but that is about it as far as differences are concerned.
Would I vote for someone just because they are a fellow Catholic? Nope. I don't know anyone in my congregation who would. Case in point....Pat Buchanan. I wouldn't vote for him unless his opponent was Satan himself....and even then it would be close.
I would vote against someone who was stridently anti-Catholic (the type that goes around saying that we aren't Christians, that kind of crap), but I don't think that is any different than some other voter choosing not to support a candidate who said something derogatory about something they believed in or valued.
We have the whole political spectrum in our faith, from left wing loony to right wing nut. Most of us have already made up our minds, and this isn't going to change the opinions of hardly anyone now.
I have voted for, and will vote for, candidates who were pro-choice and pro-death penalty, simply because I thought they were the best for the job. I don't think that is a sin that's going to sentence me to time in hell.
If there is one good thing to come from this election, it is the fact that Kerry is Catholic and no one really cares about that. He doesn't have to defend his loyalty to country vs. Vatican like Kennedy did.
#59
Ain't it the truth? God, I love American politics. Break out the popcorn and beer on election night and watch the fireworks. Greatest show on earth.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 15:52 Comments ||
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#60
Well said DB. Though most of the Catholics (if not all) the ones I know are not opposed to the death penalty, use contraception (I know you didn't specifically mention this but it was mentioned earlier in the thread) and are not stridently pro-life.
.com> I'm Catholic as well, come from a big-ass Irish-Catholic family and married into my wife's big-ass Irish & Polish Catholic family (they walk around pissed, drunk, but don't know why :)
I grew up with the stuff. I have some pretty religious famliy members and some who have told the church to piss off. I also belong to the KofC.
Now for the meat - our views are as different as any Americans. Heck, other then on military affairs I don't know if you could get me and OS to agree on what it means to be able to be Catholic and have differing views from the church etc.
WRT to my family - my dad's going to vote Nader and was pissed as hell at the RC Church for raising the no communion issue w/Kerry. My mom-in-law is voting Kerry and dis-likes Bush. Me and the wife and all the younger members of the family are voting for W. I think Kerry's a schmuck personally (on so many levels), I have issues with people who wear their religion on their sleave when there's an election. To me, religion's a personal matter, I think the founding fathers would cringe at some guy politicking from a pulpit. I also think they'd cringe when church's start suggesting who or who not to vote for. That just doen's go for the RC, look at many black Baptist churches that take on dem positions based off what race-baiters like Jackson/sharpton spew.
I don't support/not support any politician based solely on their religious or military background for that matter. For the record I am for the death penalty and still sleep fine at night. I think if a person leads a good life and does the best they can they still go to 'this concept of heaven' whether they beleived in Christ as their savior or not. I don't like the practice of abortion, I'd like to see more people put up their un-wanted babies for adoption. I'm glad partial-birth abortion was gotten rid of. However, I don't want to go back to the 50s/60s where young girls are bleeding in back alley ways w/coat hangers shoved up their genitals. I hope there comes a day where abortion is very rare, though I think it should remain an option for those who want it, let's try to take care of the ones who are already here walking around amongst us. Not all my fellow Americans are catholics, I wouldn't push my views on them as certainly as I don't push my religious or political views on my Marines. I feel a person's decision to have an abortion is between that individual and their maker. I know Kerry got lampooned for that type of statement but I feel the same way. I don't think it's a sin to vote for kerry, it's definitely stupid, but not a sin. I think things are bullshit or not because usually I come to some sort of logical conclusion, I rarely use "my church or God says..." as an argument. Now, as a disclaimer to anyone who wants to tell me I'm a moral coward or some such because I don't choose to leave the church or become a protestant or whatever because I don't swallow every tenet - get off the high horse, save your breath. This Marine ain't going no where.
Also, my apologies DB, you did mention a birth control thing in an earlier post, I mis read the posters. My wife had the same issue w/the irregular cycles so that's an interesting angle. I guess the church would be fine w/that because it's a health issue and not directly related to trying to stop from having a baby. Though we've never asked.
#63
DB...interesting, thanks. However, I do think that, even if it turns out that Kerry was not excommunicated, this will cost him votes.
This can only have two impacts - 1. people who do care, 2. people who don't care. "Don't cares" are a non-impact. Many "do cares" may or may not change their vote - but any that do make the decision to not to vote for Kerry after considering this issue, are a net loss for Kerry. There is nothing about this issue that will gain him him any votes. Is it enough to turn the election? I doubt it.
BTW...Did Kerry annul his marriage with his first wife after they had been married and raised their kids?
#64
2b - I heard something earlier that he tried to annul the first marriage. I don't know if he actually did that....supposedly Mrs Kerry the first was pissed as hell about him trying.
Still, that would pretty much be a non-issue to most Catholics except for the really strict ones. I mean, damn, there are a lot of divorcees in my congregation. One of them, sort of a local celebrity, comes in with her kids and her new husband.
#66
DB..if I remember correctly, it was more of an issue of character, rather than a divorce issue.
Maybe someone can refresh my memory - but I believe that rather than get a divorce, he wanted the marriage annulled...like it never happened - even though by that time their kids were already grown up. There was a sleeze bag reason for not just getting a regular ol' divorce - he didn't want to pay alimony or some other equally sleazy reason
"This week's issue of Time magazine says Sen. John Kerry 'sought an annulment of his 18-year first marriage before marrying again.' News reports indicate, however, that Kerry didn't seek an annulment until after he married Teresa Heinz in a civil ceremony in 1995. Today's New York Times says Kerry 'sought an annulment from the church when he was divorced from his first wife.' Notice that neither Time nor the New York Times says that an annulment was granted. They say it was 'sought.'
"Kerry cannot claim that this is a private matter since he publicly joked about his quest for an annulment on the Don Imus show of May 8, 1997. 'Seventy-five percent of all annulments in the world take place in the United States,' Kerry said, 'and I guess the figure drops to 50 percent if you take out all Massachusetts politicians.' He continued saying, 'It's one of those special Catholic things. It's like confession or feeling guilty about things you haven't even thought of doing.'
"On Feb. 16, 2004, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported that 'Kerry's office didn't respond to several e-mail and telephone requests' regarding the question of whether an annulment was granted. On March 23, 2003, the Providence Journal-Bulletin said that Kerry 'will not say whether he obtained an annulment of his first marriage. â¦' Why the reticence, especially since Kerry says his 'current marriage is in good graces with the Church?'
"Why does this matter? If Kerry did not receive an annulment, then he is not married in the Catholic Church and cannot receive the sacraments. But even if he was annulled, did he and Teresa Heinz get married in the Catholic Church following the annulment? If not, then Kerry is not married in the Church, thus raising all sorts of questions."
I guess he must have gotten one, since they've been receiving communion at mass.....a big no-no for divorcees, especially those who have remarried.
#68
According to a previous account offered by the paper, the fact that Kerry was still technically married till 1988 "reportedly came as a surprise to some of his frequent companions."
Just weeks before his May 26, 1995, remarriage to Ketchup heiress Theresa Heinz, Thorne took Kerry to court in a bid for an increase in child support payments, arguing that "his income was up substantially," according to the Seattle Post-Intelligencer.
Both Kerry and Thorne denied that the lawsuit had anything to do with Heinz or her fortune.
But friction arose again two years later when Kerry, a Catholic, applied to the Washington, D.C., archdiocese to have his marriage to Thorne annulled, even though the couple had two grown daughters.
Thorne "has written a letter of opposition to the archdiocese because she feels the process demeans their relationship and their children," reported the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in 1997.
The paper blamed Kerry's new wife on the annulment bid. His office issued a terse statement: "Sen. Kerry very much understands Julia's feelings and appreciates her support. Sen. Kerry believes that this is a private family matter."
The Washington Times noted in a Kerry profile several years ago that his critics consider him "a ruthless political opportunist." Given some of the more obscure details of Kerry's first marriage, that assessment may not be too far off the mark
#69
Bush could have brought this up in the debates, but he has too much moral fiber to pull a cheap trick like Kerry did, re: Mary Cheney.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/19/2004 19:36 Comments ||
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#70
OldSpook - Thanks for reminding me why I am not Catholic! With that method of birth control I would have hundreds of children. Instead I have my ZPG mandated 2.
(ZPG -- Your duty to the planet as a human not to kill it with over population.)
#72
It sounds like there is a quiet riot going on under the lid, lol! I didn't expect any sort of lock-step with the Vatican, but I have to ask: If you disagree with so many of (what appear to be) the hardline rules / laws / tenets / whatever - why go to Catholic churches, why think of yourself as Catholic? There are a lot of little-bit pregnant people running around, methinks. I find it curious. And I include Skeery - he follows what suits him, so I don't see why he's "Catholic". I don't get it, but appreciate the info. Even if it turned out to be true, it sounds like it would only mean something to a minority of Catholics... maybe a very small one, too.
Thanx - an education for a Texas boy who saw damned near all the other Christian religions of note in the US in action, my mother was a ping-pong ball until she found the Mormons, but I never visited a Mass. Hell, still I know 10x more about Theravadan Buddhists in Thailand and Wahhabi RamaLamaDingDongs in Saudi than I do Catholics, lol! My honest thanx for lifting the lid!
#73
My wife and I are not Catholic or even fundementalist christians. However we both know divorce and abortion are grave sins. So I am wondering WTH Kerry comes off claiming he is catholic even in the general sense (universal christian faith as opposed to the Holy Roman Chatholic Church.) This all leaves me scratching my body parts.
This crap of getting a marriage annuled years after the fact was one of the issues Martin Luther had when he nailed that letter to that door. It just shouldn't be done. Once a marriage is consummated you hitched for good. I am really (not) sad he couldn't get married in a real Catholic Church because he was divorced. This creep doesn't rate even a shot at being president of the US.
#74
the annullment game is a sad one. I married in the RC faith, and got divorced. I can no longer marry in the church, but that was made VERY clear before I married the first time. I should've been a better husband and married later than I did. An annullment in my case would be by mutual agreement...not that hard to grasp: encouragement to marry once, and do it right, or have civil ceremonies for the rest
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/19/2004 22:45 Comments ||
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#75
"If you disagree with so many of (what appear to be) the hardline rules / laws / tenets / whatever - why go to Catholic churches, why think of yourself as Catholic?"
I think the reason most Protestants don't get this, is because unlike Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, the clergy of most Protestant groups doesn't have the meaning that the clergy of Catholics and Eastern Orthodox has. I believe most Protestant groups either don't have a clergy or they don't see it as an intermediary between God and men with a divine mandate.
I'll let others speak of themselves, but the best way to make the point is by analogy I think: Some may consider Bush the legitimate president of America, fully-authorized to make decisions, but they may still disagree with those decisions.
Likewise someone may consider the Roman Catholic Church (or the Eastern Orthodox Churches for that matter) as the legitimate medium between God and men, divinely authorized to conduct ceremonies, absolve sin, etc.. -- and they may nonetheless still disagree with many of the specific choices and beliefs and teachings of that hierarcy. They consider the Church to *err* in its interpretation of God's will and scripture, but that doesn't mean they don't consider the Church as a whole to be divinely authorized.
It just means that they don't believe the Church's mandate extends to replacing their own reasoning faculties.
That's the justification anyway. My guess is that in many cases the real reason is that "I disagree with lot that the Catholic Church has to say" is less scary than a clear statement "I am no longer Catholic".
#76
3dc - stop lying. NFP is as effective as birth control pills. And Catholics have duty to God first - which includes stewardship of the planet, not a "duty to the planet" - that last phrase sounds like something you got of Saturday morning cartoons.
#77
A catholic President to America will be a curse, as he will be under the frock of the Pope on all key issues.Vatican authority will be sought for every important matters. Its like bringing back the evil demon of Papacy again to USA
Putin gets it, when will the MSM "get it"?
Russian President Vladimir Putin said Monday that terrorists are aiming to derail U.S. President George W. Bush's chances at re-election through their attacks in Iraq. "I consider the activities of terrorists in Iraq are not as much aimed at coalition forces but more personally against President Bush," Putin said at a news conference after a regional summit in the Tajik capital, Dushanbe. "International terrorism has as its goal to prevent the election of President Bush to a second term," he said. "If they achieve that goal, then that will give international terrorism a new impulse and extra power." Tells you a little something about his opinion on a Kerry presidency, doesn't it?
Posted by: OldSpook ||
10/19/2004 10:44:47 AM ||
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Prime Minister General Khin Nyunt has been placed under "protective custody" in what appears to be a purge of the country's much-feared Military Intelligence (MI), military sources said on Tuesday. Khin Nyunt, who is also MI chief, was put under custody on Monday.
Oh boy, a Deep Laid Plot!
Plumb nefarious...
The ruling military regime recently launched a purge of the MI personnel that started in Muse, the Shan State. Several MI officers have been tried on corruption charges and summarily handed down prison terms of 20 years by military courts, sources in Yangon confirmed. Khin Nyunt, once deemed among the country's most powerful generals in determining foreign policy, was recently "kicked upstairs" to the post of prime minister. Senior General Than Shwe, the regime's head, has long had conflicts with Khin Nyunt. In neighbouring Thailand, Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra confirmed he had heard rumours of a "conflict" within the Myanmar military.Â
I love it when they eat their own.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/19/2004 1:13:21 AM ||
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#1
I used the Thai/Burma border crossings (approx 1 year ago) to renew my Thai visa several times - and I would bet that every 2nd or 3rd expat crossing, which cost 250 baht (about $5-$6 USD) for a Burma "day pass" (not a small amount there), was "lost" or "unrecorded" - that's the easiest place to snarf up hard currency without it showing up easily, so you know corruption abounds. There were 50-100 obvious Westerners doing this every day I did it. Thailand clamped down on this game starting about 7 months ago declaring the "quickie" 30-day visa game at border crossings must stop - it's why I left and came back to the US. Due to this, I'm sure there are Burmese military who've turned to more visible avenues of corruption - and are getting caught in greater numbers.
Police in the southern Indian state of Tamil Nadu say they have shot dead one of India's most wanted men, the bandit known as Veerappan. Police say he was killed along with three associates in a jungle forest. Veerappan, a Tamil, was accused of more than 100 murders as well as kidnapping, smuggling and poaching and had been on the run for some 20 years. A post mortem is being conducted in the town of Dharmapuri, where a huge crowd gathered outside the hospital.
A tall, wiry man with a trademark handlebar moustache, Veerappan had been considered the country's most ruthless and daring bandit. Since 1993, Veerappan had offered to surrender to the police on three occasions, always demanding that he be given a blanket amnesty. But the authorities always insisted that he should first lay down his arms and surrender. There had been allegations that he had close links with some banned extremist Tamil nationalist groups as well as Tamil Tiger separatists in Sri Lanka.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/19/2004 9:05:57 AM ||
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#1
Notorious moustachioed bandits . . . why do they hate us?
Posted by: Mike ||
10/19/2004 9:42 Comments ||
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#2
Did they curse his moustache before they shot him?
The Umatilla Chemical Depot began destroying liquid nerve agent over the weekend, officials said Monday. Nearly 560 gallons of the nerve gas known as GB agent were incinerated over 11 hours on Sunday, said Don Barclay, project manager. The depot began destroying rockets carrying the nerve gas last month, but the liquid nerve agent was stored until plant operators had a minimum of 500 gallons. "The beginning of agent feed to the liquid incinerator is a major milestone," said Doug Hamrick, general manager of the disposal facility. "It represents the final destruction step of the agent from the rockets previously destroyed in the deactivation furnace." The depot has about 12 percent of the nerve and mustard gas weapons in the United States' stockpile and is under treaty obligation to destroy them. The process is expected to take about six years. Good riddance and about time. GB is non-persistant nerve agent and terribly dangerous compared to binary chemical weapons.
#3
I think there is a special place in hell for the people who thought this crap up and for the assholes who could contemplate using it.
Not condoning anything, but you are looking at this with a current mindset as opposed to say, somebody from the 1950s and 60s, who looked at the Fulda Gap and had to plan a response.
At one point this stuff was considered an alternative to battlefield nukes. A lot of blood and treasure was expended in the shadows to keep this horrible stuff from being used.
#4
I think there is a special place in hell for the people who thought this crap up and for the assholes who could contemplate using it.
If you think nerve agent and mustard gas is terrible, just think of the bioweapons that the Soviets engineered. Way beyond anything the U.S. ever contrived.
#5
Now contemplate the dimwits who have consistently prevented the destruction of stockpiles of chemical agents in the US.
Whimpering over the possibility of leakege from incinerators thye have held up destruction of stockpiles for decades.
The Bluegrass Army Depot had scheduled to build an incinerator to destroy stockpiles of nerve agents in KY. It should have been done and finished with the job by now. Instead, with the help of various anti-gov agencies, the destruction has been held up and we are now SEARCHING for a method of ridding ourselves of this hazard.
Congratulations to the roadblocks, you have left enormous stockpiles of agents in places where (in theory) they remain a danger to YOUR OWN D@&% COMMUNITIES! Appreciate that.
Posted by: Jame Retief ||
10/19/2004 13:38 Comments ||
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#6
It goes without saying the nut jobs who impeeded the total distruction of this meanace have a special ring in hell reserved for them.
I often wonder why when given the chance we just don't slap these dipshit silly to wake them up.
#7
The bad thing about not destroying stocks in a timely manner is that the containers could continue to deteriorate, posing a greater hazard. Look at the still continuing nightmare of unexploded WW1 ordinance found in France when a plow digs one up. The moonbats want 100% assurance that everything will go ok, but will not allow transport, storage, or a destruction facility anywhere, a la NIMBY. Therefore you will never have a solution to the problem.
The problem is really how to deal with moonbats and defeat them so we can apply our best technology and efforts into neutralizing these chemical agents.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/19/2004 20:50 Comments ||
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From Mail and Guardian Online
Masked men torched a Roman Catholic church in Zanzibar over the weekend, the third such attack in a week in the predominantly Muslim Indian Ocean archipelago, a church leader said on Monday. Suspicions fell on Islamic extremists, ...
It wasn't the Esquimaux ...
... highlighting rising Islamic militancy and growing political tensions as Zanzibar prepares for what is expected to be its most hotly contested presidential and legislative elections since the violent overthrow of the Omani Sultan in 1964.
Reverend Vincent Shiyo, a Roman Catholic priest, said four masked men torched his church on Saturday night in Mchangani, 15km from the centre of Unguja, the main island in the semi-autonomous archipelago off the coast of Tanzania. No one was injured in the attack that destroyed the outreach parish church, Shiyo said. The attack occurred three days after unknown assailants set fire to a Lutheran church and demolished the wall of another Roman Catholic church.
Police are investigating the attacks, but no one has been arrested, regional police chief Hamad Issa said. "What is sad is that there is no official condemnation of the attacks," Shiyo said. "Both the police and government officials appear reluctant to condemn attacks on Christians."
In April, three Roman Catholic churches and a school van were attacked with explosive devices in Zanzibar. In the same month, suspected Islamic militants set off explosive devices targeting a local pub, homes of government officials and Christian and pro-government Muslim leaders. "The Muslim fundamentalists are angry at the social services that the church extends to all without discrimination," Shiyo said. ....
Boy howdy that's got to make a good Moose-limb mad.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
10/19/2004 12:18:50 AM ||
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#1
Face it. Islamofascists love destruction and death. Because that's what their "prophet" taught them.
#2
Another example of the worldwide persecution of Muslims. Poor souls.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
10/19/2004 6:08 Comments ||
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"The Muslim fundamentalists are angry at the social services that the church extends to all without discrimination," Shiyo said. ....
Unlike in muslim practice where the money goes to muslims first because they are better and more deserving people for simply being muslims. Then whatever is left over if anything might then it might be given to muslims working to convert the infidel which is something that in muslim thought is more important than just feeding people regardless of religion.
This is why you see absolutely no international muslim charities working among the poor of all nations like you see Western charities doing. Where do the largest muslim charities work? Among muslims first and foremost.
#6
Peggy, a little correction: muslim charities go to arab muslims first - since they are the holiest muslims. Then other muslims...
As for infidels: the priority goes to those who are killling, raping, and murdering infidels first then those who might try to convert them. Nothing goes to help non-muslims except to get them into a position of trust so you can kill them.
A Pakistani man has been sentenced to life imprisonment for burning a copy of the Koran. A court in Lahore found Mehdi Hassan, 36, guilty under Pakistani laws covering offences against Islam, the prophet Mohammed or the Koran. The defendant had denied the charge, which can carry the death penalty, saying the case had arisen from a property dispute. .... Additional sessions court judge Anwar Chaudhry said the prosecution "had proven its case". Hassan was detained in December 2001 after a complaint by a councillor in eastern Lahore. He was accused of burning a copy of the Koran in his yard.
Is this one different than the one yesterday with the stooopid Christian burning a Koran?
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
10/19/2004 12:03:22 AM ||
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The unholy koran makes perfectly good toilet paper.
#2
Or maybe he used it for kindling for a barbecue. With all the crap in it, especially because it was a 'stupid' edition, it probably took a long time to burn. Ideal.
#4
Is this one different than the one yesterday with the stooopid Christian burning a Koran?
This was about an entirely different incident, where somebody was sentenced to 25 years for tearing up a leaflet that included stupid verses from the stupid Koran.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
10/19/2004 8:40 Comments ||
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Whitecollar, I think Allan and Mo were -ahem- engaged on other activities....
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
The government lashed out Monday at Haiti's interim prime minister, denying allegations that South African President Thabo Mbeki has allowed Haiti's ousted president to coordinate violence in the Caribbean country from his refuge here.
A consultant to the Vatican has said Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry has incurred the penalty of excommunication from the Catholic Church. 
