E.F.L.
Soldiers of the new Afghan national army battled resurgent Taliban fighters in eastern Afghanistan on Wednesday, killing a former Taliban minister in a four-hour gunbattle, state television reported. The former minister of borders and tribal affairs, Ammanullah, was killed during a firefight in Orgun, 108 miles south of Kabul. Several other suspected Taliban fighters also were killed, and four government soldiers were injured, state TV said. Ammanullah used only one name. That'll save space on the tombstone.
The latest round of factional fighting in the north broke out Tuesday in Maimana, the capital of Faryab province. At least four combatants were killed and four wounded during clashes between forces loyal to ethnic Uzbek warlord Gen. Abdul Rashid Dostum and those of his Tajik rival, Gen. Atta Mohammed, said Qudrat Ullah Hormat, spokesman for Atta Mohammed. Hormat said four of Mohammed's soldiers were killed and four injured in an exchange of automatic weapons fire. Earlier Wednesday, Afghan authorities dispatched a team of mediators to the area to resolve simmering tensions between the two rival factions, said Sayed Noor Ullah, one of Dostum's senior officials. It was not clear what sparked the fighting. Ullah characterized Tuesday's skirmish as a "local dispute" between two commanders â Dostum's Mohammad Hashim and Mohammed's Gulam Farooq. "local dispute" means they stopped short of heavy artillery, so far.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 12:07 pm ||
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#1
"mediators"
Seems to me they should have given them a couple of days to kill each other,then go in and mop up the rest.
Germany has thousands of "guest workers" (gastarbeiters), including many from Turkey. Iraq has done one better - they have thousands of guest fighters. From a post on Sgt Stryker's (www.sgtstryker.com) comes this little jewel:
"At a former Iraqi military compound, eight prisoners knelt in the dirt. U.S. soldiers said they were suspected Islamic militants from France, Algeria, Egypt and Jordan."
Read the whole thing at http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030410/ap_on_re_mi_ea/war_arab_volunteers&cid=540&ncid=1473
Guess it's not enough for France to lead the "Axis of Weasels", it has to allow French citizens join the fray. France has some serious problems. We have puppy psychologists - wonder if there's a psychologist that specializes in treating governments.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/10/2003 09:09 pm ||
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Police in Germany have raided 80 buildings across the country in a nationwide operation against suspected members of a banned Islamic group. A statement from the Interior Ministry said the police seized computers, bank account details and other documents, but no arrests have been reported. The action is aimed at suspected members of Hizb ut-Tahrir, an Islamist group banned in January. It was the third Islamic group to be banned in Germany following the introduction of anti-terror legislation adopted after the 11 September attacks. German Interior Minister Otto Schily has accused Hizb ut-Tahrir of promoting anti-Semitism and the killing of Jews, and denying Israel's right to exist. However, the group's website says piously it seeks to set up Islamic governments in Arab and Muslim countries by peaceful means. Don't they all? One man's "peace" is another man's "massacre," as Rooters might say...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/10/2003 03:39 pm ||
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Germany stepped up pressure on the United States to hand control of postwar Iraq to the United Nations on Thursday, calling with Japan for a U.N. resolution and saying it will only help rebuild Iraq under U.N. leadership. "Germany can and will contribute to the reconstruction if this happens under the auspices of the United Nations," Schroeder told German TV channel RTL. Germany's constitution forbade it from acting under any other authority, he said.
Then don't. Just piss off. Go write a memo or something.
Separately, the German and Japanese foreign ministers, Joschka Fischer and Yoriko Kawaguchi, said after a meeting in Berlin the United Nations should agree a resolution on rebuilding Iraq. "I think that the legitimacy of the United Nations and coming U.N. resolutions would be best and necessary," Fischer said. "Japan has a very important role in the international discussion and in bringing the positions together." U.S. President George W. Bush and his main war ally, British Prime Minister Tony Blair, have said they see a "vital" U.N. role in Iraq when fighting ends. But their plans may fall short of the desires of anti-war France, Germany and Russia.
Oh, come now. Somebody's got to clean the toilets.
A U.S.-led civil administration has started work in Iraq headed by retired U.S. General Jay Garner, prompting deep Arab suspicion about Washington's motives and widespread calls that the United Nations be given the job instead. "We will have to see what is meant by 'vital' role," Schroeder said. "I think if you want stability in the region and lasting peace one needs the United Nations and my impression is that this is also in the interests of the Americans and British." But if you want it done right, you have to keep the UN's hands tied. We've seen this over and over and over and...
He declined to say whether Germany would provide any peacekeeping troops, noting that the country's military resources were already stretched by operations in the Balkans and Afghanistan. Schroeder also said it was "a bit macabre" to start talking now about contracts to rebuild Iraq and that such matters were up to a future democratically elected Iraqi government.
Germany's diplomatic push comes ahead of a meeting in St Petersburg with fellow war opponents Russian President Vladimir Putin and French President Jacques Chirac at the weekend. Schroeder is also due to meet Blair in Hanover, northern Germany, on Tuesday to discuss the outcome of the St Petersburg meeting, Iraq, and European security and defence policy. Schroeder, whose opposition to war in Iraq has hurt German relations with the United States, had struck a conciliatory note last week, saying piously for the first time he hoped U.S.-led forces would topple Saddam Hussein as quickly as possible. He has also stressed the St Petersburg meeting was routine and "directed against no one". But he reiterated on Thursday he remained opposed to the war even after Wednesday's scenes of jubilation by residents of Baghdad as Saddam's rule crumbled. "This was always going to end in a military victory for the allied forces and that was to be wished for. But one mustn't forget that war always claims many victims and that this one claimed a lot of victims too."
Germany among them. Or at least Schroeder.
Germany opposed the U.S.-led war because it did not have the backing of the United Nations and, in Germany's opinion, there was still a chance of a peaceful resolution to the crisis, Schroeder said. The Germans are still trying to muscle the entire Iraqi situation into the UN, so they and France can be the "guiding authority". I pray that Bush and Blair, along with the leaders of Spain, Portugal, Australia, Czech Republic, and our other allies work together to prevent this potential disaster from taking place.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/10/2003 12:38 pm ||
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#1
Fred,
I'm torn between leaving this under "Terror" or putting it under "Europe". The longer the diatribe goes on from France and Germany, the more I see them as terrorist states. Certainly the United Nations falls into that category already.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/10/2003 12:51 Comments ||
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#2
Or what? They'll sit back and watch everything go just fine without them. Oh the pressure from these Eurocrats is unbearable.
Posted by: g wiz ||
04/10/2003 12:52 Comments ||
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#3
3 weeks late...
And billions short...
Posted by: sonic ||
04/10/2003 12:56 Comments ||
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#4
Ah, they're just pissed because we're wiping out the bunker market.
#6
its time for the Germans to shut the **** up and start dealing with thier own problems. like maybe EU economic rules that the Germans follow (the Germans will follow any rule as long as it's law) and the French totally ignore? Makes me think how long the Germans can stand being in bed with Saddams Whores. especially with their ecomony not doing so good...I SAY THE FRENCH CAN EAT SOURKRAUT!!!
Posted by: Dan ||
04/10/2003 14:27 Comments ||
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#7
Old Patriot, that remark is really below anything I'd have expected from you. I refuse to go into it. Please see a doctor.
Right now they run a big tv gala here in Germany to collect millions of euros of aid coming to help Iraq. But the Americans distributing German money in Iraq? I think not.
Right now major German religious help organisations are not allowed to provide humanitarian aid to Iraq because they refuse USAID to decide where the aid has to go. No, it doesn't work that way and never has: The one who gives decides where the aid goes, not an American organisation. And we are not breaking our constitution just to make you look better in Iraq.
And Dan, a comment for your qualified remark: Sauerkraut (choucroute) is a favourite dish of Alsace, hence French.
I appreciate the info this site provides but some comments (actually quite a lot) are so low level that I really start to worry about the damage the Bush administration has done to the United states in just two years. The Americans I know are different, obviously. And I know quite a few.
#8
I think the damage was done by the German government's refusal to work with their ally. It has nothing to do with Bush. He could have never created the amount of dislike for Europe that they have done to themselves. Some of it is immature but these are tense times and people are just letting off steam.
Posted by: g wiz ||
04/10/2003 15:29 Comments ||
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True German --
I read (and can find the link, if you'd like) that Iraq has refused ALL Arab countries. They prefer only a condemnation of American bombing. It wouldn't surprise me if Iraq has also refused aid from Germany and everywhere else. It suits propaganda purposes when you can say the hospitals are out of medicine and supplies. But that's happening only because those supplies are still sitting in Jordan.
And I seriously doubtthat the one who gives decides where the aid goes. In many, if not most, cases there is one group set up to handle the bulk of distribution. Are you saying the German constitution doesn't allow this?
Also, American soldiers have given out American dollars in some places, and also dinars that they've come across.
It's very nice that a telthon is being held to raise EUs for Iraq. But that reflects the German people who are giving, not the German government that is playing the same games they played before this war.
#10
Nothing like a European to stab you in the back and then say, "Ah, but we're friends, non??"
TGA, disappointment runs deep in these here parts. Schroeder should've thought about it a little longer.
Still, I like Germans and hope this thing will blow over soon. As for Chiraq and his cronies... no comment.
#13
TGA - if Germany wants to givve aid thats not under control USAID thats reasonable - Germans should be able to go into Iraq and give as they see fit, subject to the security situation. The problem is that Schroeder says that Germany will only give after a UN res. Which would be OK except that the French will probably hold that up for UN political authority. Which would be OK except that they will want the UN to have complete political authority IE they will be in position to keep control in hand of Sunni Arab elite, keep down Kurds and Shia, make sure succesor regime is friendly to arab status quo and hostile to the US, (not to mention making sure that the govt repays debts to France, honors oil contracts, and gives France first dibs on rebuilding) After France and its pals spent so much time struggling to prevent regime change, this is simply NOT acceptable. Not to the US, and not to the people of Iraq, as far as I can tell.
And if that means no German help with rebuilding, so be it.
#14
Right on the backs of UN successes in Bosnia,Rwanda,Kosovo,Bougainville,Zaire/Kongo and let's not forget their careful management of the Palestinian Arab refugee camps over the last 30+ years.
And let's not forget that Kofi Annan was the chief of peacekeeping operations for the UN when his underlings started to file in reports that something was seriously amiss in Rwanda (several hundred thousand people,it turned out).Yet he and the rest of the UN did nothing to stop it.Total paralysis in the face of modern holocaust and what do they get for it?
A Nobel Peace Prize,of course.But so did Jimmy Carter,Yasser Arafat,Simon Perez and Mihail Gorbachev.A pattern,anyone?
Posted by: El Id ||
04/10/2003 16:35 Comments ||
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TGA - there are many, many ways to "promote" or support terrorism that don't include blowing up real estate or slitting people's throats. When the people of a nation turn their back on a friend because it's profitable to do so, that can be a form of terrorism. The GOVERNMENT of Germany made decisions, and those decisions are now coming back to bite them. Tough SH$$. There are consequences to behavior. Get over it.
On the other side of the coin, I know and respect many of the German people. I've walked among them, eaten their food, visited their cities, and spent time even on the soccer field with them (getting my butt kicked in the process!). I admire and respect many Germans. I just don't have any respect for their current government, or its current obsession with their newfound friend, France.
BTW, I was in Wiesbaden when the Baader/Meinhoff gang detonated a bomb at the IG Farben building in Frankfurt. One of those injured was a friend of mine. Germany has its links to terrorism.
As for France, what can I say? They've always been self-centered and a bit insane. I'm just puzzled why the German people would tie themselves so strongly to anyone so obviously deranged.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/10/2003 16:37 Comments ||
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#16
Truth be told; Shroeder was elected under a false premise, schroeder is a communist, and since the fall of Soviet europe, communisms central nervous system was moved to the u n, where like a virus, it can infect by subversion, bribery and stealth the whole free world. The German people have not caught on yet but they will soon. Socialism is on a path called the 3rd way, it means states with small margins in local elections will appoint hard line communists to UN positions where each constituion of each republic is subverted by un caveat. Make no mistake the entire thing is near being exposed, subversion is what it is, our own dept of state is complicit, each time you hear dialog like We cant do something with out the UN you are hearing the wishful thinking of the movement to destroy each country by subjegation to the u n.
#17
"When the people of a nation turn their back on a friend because it's profitable to do so, that can be a form of terrorism."
Dennis Kucinich says unemployment and homelessness are forms of terrorism. I dont like unemployment or homelessness, just as i dont like went nations betray allies in their hour of need - but lets keep things straight - terrorism is about murdering civilians for political or religious ends, and providing direct financial or logistical support to those who do - its not anything else.
#18
Old Patriot - I was in Frankfurt when that bomb (and don't forget the one it Heidelberg) went off - worked in V Corp Headquarters. It almost seemed as though the Germans accepted, even to some extent admired, the Baader-Meinhofs (who had committed a lot of crimes against the Germans before they bombed our headquarters). The cops got really serious about finding the bastards only after they killed a German cop. (BIG mistake!) Those were interesting times.
Germany still appears to be too tolerant of terrorists and terrorist wanna-be's - witness what went on in Hamburg prior to 9/11, and all the arrests they keep making even today. I, like you, still like Germany and the German people, but for the forseeable future, I'll be spending my tourist dollars elsewhere. Damn shame.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
04/10/2003 16:59 Comments ||
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#19
Old Patriot, what the hell of an argument is this? A terrorist group detonates a bomb in Germany and then you say Germany has its links to terrorism??? Does the USA have its links to terrorism because of Oklahoma and 9/11???
liberalhawk, it's not true that Germany said it would only help after a UN resolution. Germany IS helping right now. German humanitarian organisations are refused entry into Iraq to bring help to Iraqi hospitals etc because they refuse to have their help delivered (and instrumentalized) by USAID, which is a US government institution and right now controlled by the Pentagon. Right now military aims and humanitarian aid go hand in hand in Iraq and it is understandable (and actually mandatory) for the Red Cross and other organizations not to be instrumentalized by the US military. It's inconceivable that US soldiers deliver goods from the German Red Cross and use foreign humanitarian aid for their own propaganda.
I have yet to check what Schroeder exactly meant by reconstruction. German constitution does not allow government institutions to work under the order of foreign government institutions except under UN umbrella. This includes the military but much more. Germany couldn't participate in an Iraq war not authorized by the UN. Schroeder has gone too far indeed but still it's the sovereign right of a country not to go to war. The ally USA has NOT been attacked by Iraq and preemptive wars have no place in the German constitution.
I'm not going into details about why Germany did not participate. Right now we are in Afghanistan, right now the USA can use its bases in Germany at will, use German airspace at its will, use AWACS planes patrolling the Turkish/Iraqi border (manned by Germans) at will. We may not be part of the grandiose "coalition of the willing" but we have done way more than Turkey or *chuckle* Micronesia.
#20
Barbara, the terrorist acts in Germany were only "admired" by a very radical leftist faction. They enjoyed about the same general public sympathy as the "Symbionese Liberation Army" in the US. The Germans have cracked down hard on terrorism all the time. We had no tolerance for them. Chancellor Helmut Schmidt refused to make any deals with them. The successful storming of a hijacked Lufthansa plane in Mogadisho is still in everybody's mind here. But we don't have a death penalty and we won't change that now. And we respect the law, we don't have extra laws for terrorists. When they were tried they failed to claim a political role. We just treated them for what they were: murderers. And the RAF terrorist organisation disbanded because it couldn't see any sense (or any sympathy for them) in their fight anymore.
Maybe the 9/11 group in Hamburg slipped through. Didn't they in Florida as well? You are always wiser after the deed.
#21
We may not be part of the grandiose "coalition of the willing" but we have done way more than Turkey or *chuckle* Micronesia.
Wouldn't be so sure about that last - there are a number of Micronesians in the US military... Micronesia was part of the US Trust Territory of the Pacific under United Nations Trusteeship. Lots of those folks found that the American military was a nice way to get a lot of goodies for themselves and their families, including training, education, and a halfway decent pension after 20+ years' service. One of the young men that worked for me in Germany in 1988 was from Micronesia.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/10/2003 17:45 Comments ||
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#22
TGA, surely those who've so generously given to the Iraqathon campaign would rather see their donations go to the people they intend them to benefit, rather than sit in a neighbouring country because petulant aid workers have the paranoid idea the US wants to hijack humanitarian relief for propaganda purposes?
#23
Exactly Bulldog, they want the money to go to the people who need it most, not to the US military distributing the aid where it best suits their propaganda purposes. I'm saying that with no hard feelings btw, it's just a fact that the ideas of USAID and German help organisations don't seem to match. And German help organisations have been on the ground for years in Iraq. And they didn't allow Saddam to distribute their money either.
Btw institutions like the Red Cross or Caritas MUST stay neutral or they lose their credibility (and donators).
I donated 1000 Euros btw. You are welcome to do better than that, to the institution you chose.
#24
The coalition have delivered freedom from tyranny to the Iraqi people. I fail to see how delivering food, water and medical supplies is either beyond their capabilities or something they're now desperate to do to prove themselves friends of the common man on the street. Besides, call me ruthlessly efficient, but I'd have thought it sensible to have aid distribution centrally organised, even if not military administered, in order to ensure equal and thorough coverage. I'm not saying the German Red Cross is more to blame than anyone else here, but it seems to me as though aid is being used as a political weapon, and the victims are the recipients-to-be.
#25
BTW, sorry that reads a bit aggressive, TGA. Not intended. German intentions are good, we're just not seeing eye to eye on how to deal with this kind of thing at the moment. Yeah, and it's past my bedtime....
#26
Liberalhawk,
My definition of "terrorism" is the indiscriminate or excessive use of force, or the threat of such force, against a government or its people in order to coerce them into accepting a particular behavior they would otherwise not choose for themselves - I.E., "terrorizing" them. You don't have to actually kill someone to terrorize them - sometimes just the threat of such actions is sufficient. A good example is North Korea's threats concerning the regime's development of nuclear weapons. While Germany and France haven't been blatantly antagonistic, they have been obstructive, forcing the US government and its people to respond in ways other than what was desirable.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/10/2003 18:57 Comments ||
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#27
Nice definition indeed. Countries that don't follow US policies on pre-emptive wars are "obstructive" and rated "terrorist states". Wow
Waiting for the first cruise missile on Berlin now...
#28
TGA -- Look, I don't think anyone here is denigrating the telethon, or the Germans' intentions. I could go into the usual "some of my best friends are Germans (ok, my brother's really, but still)" speech, but I won't bore you with it.
I've always felt that your country was a very good ally. I still think that your country and mine are friends. Our governments? Nope. Not after some of the comments made by both sides. I don't think it's anything that won't resolve in time.
I wasn't surprised at all by the Russians and how they behaved. I wouldn't have expected any different from the French. I was surprised by Schroder seemingly kissing up to the French. It seemed on this side of the Atlantic that he was letting Chirac lead him along by the nose. A lot of us were stunned by that, wondering if he couldn't see that the French were going to screw him over the first chance they got.
This is a rough time for our two countries, and the comments here reflect that. You've made several excellent posts in the short time that I've been reading this and would hate to see you leave.
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/10/2003 20:17 Comments ||
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#29
I wish it was seen more as a conflict between governments, true. Which it is... still. But the poisoning is starting and I really hate that.
Why? Because I always admired America, the freedom it had, the values it propagated but never forced upon others. Vietnam disturbed me a bit but having lived Stalinist terror I defended it.
I was truly saddened by 9/11 and I remember that everyone was. Hell we could even get that pacifist/leftist government to agree on Afghanistan. I don't know how things could deteriorate so fast in 2002.
I know that with no German government German combat troops would have gone to Iraq, but we would not have refused participation like Schroeder did. But it's also true that while Schroeder was digging his hole nobody from the other side of the Atlantic made efforts to help him to get out of the mess he created. In late 2002 Germany felt completely isolated. And that was the time when the French (or rather Chirac) grabbed their chance. And the mess at the Security Council started.
Had the US accepted that Germany couldn't join this war and said, ok abstain if you have to, we won't hold it against you, then France would have looked rather isolated and stupid. Chirac only dared his gamble because Germany could not refuse its assistance this time.
It took me quite a long time to be convinced that this war was necessary. It's a long story I know. It doesn't get any better the more I think about it. And US troops in Damascus won't help either, I'm afraid.
#30
TGA, I don't see your point about the US having to make an effort to help Schroeder get out of the mess he created. After all, previously you stated that each country has a right to make its choice about joining or not. Schroeder made that choice, so what's more there to say. And BTW, he was first to do so among all the naysayers. Secondly, there's a subtle difference between abstaining and actively obstructing the other side. For instance, Germany could have told Chiraq that the Americans had a valid point too, about having a deadline and serious consequences which could include war. Germany could have taken the middle of both extremes. Instead Germany took a side opposite to that of the US. And it was the wrong time in history to do it.
#31
TGA-- Can't speak for your country, but on this side, I think some of the problem was the campaign that Schroder ran to get elected. It was seen over here as very anti-American. When one of his deputies compared our President to Hitler, and when I saw that "No Blood for Oil" magazine cover that replaced the stars in our flag with swastikas, I was sickened and shocked. Again, coming from France, that's one thing, but Germany? It seemed such an about face after the support Germans showed after 9/11.
So, yeah, we figured, hell, your economy hurting a little, Gerhard? GOOD. Chirac stabbing you in the back, dearie? EVEN BETTER. A little childish? Yes. I still don't think that it's something that can't be overcome with time.
There is some anti-German stuff out here, but truly nothing compared to the contempt we have for the French. I haven't heard anyone say that they won't visit Germany, or make the kind of jokes about Germany that they do about France. Any snotty comments are directed towards Schroder, never the people.
I haven't heard anyone seriously talk about going to Damascus next. That would be pretty stupid. We know that we have more than likely finished the easy part. The peace is going to be difficult, but we can do it. It just would have been better to have your country there with us, even in a noncombat role. (Thanks for the help with Afghanistan, by the way. Many of us out here do know your country is providing a lot of peacekeeping troops there and they are appreciated.)
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/10/2003 23:03 Comments ||
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#32
The Bush government never accepted that German choice and it decided to state an "example" on an ally that dared to disagree with the White House. The most elementary protocol of diplomatic behaviour was ignored. Bush didn't even send a congratulation when Schroeder won reelection. All German post elections efforts to mend fences were rebuked. Rumsfeld's remarks about Germany were insulting and drove Schroeder into isolation. An isolation the French took advantage of.
The Germans never took a stand against the U.S., they took a stand against being drawn into "pre-emptive" wars which they could not reconciliate with their constitution. And say what you will, that war was decided way before Powell took it to the UN. Nobody had the shadow of a doubt about the fact that the U.S. were going to invade Iraq anyway. There never was another choice. Maybe that was it what most members of the Security Council felt: We don't have a chance, so let's take it.
We have yet to see what comes out of it. But more pouting on both sides of the Atlantic won't help. Denying Germans and French access to the bidding process of Iraqi reconstruction will only backfire as sooner or later U.S. companies will face a similar fate in the EU. And does anyone want that escalation? If we continue down this path the situation could develop into a full blown trade war between EU and USA. Does anybody want that?
#33
Former Russian Major, the campaign was not so much Anti-American, it was Anti-Bush or Anti-War. There were certainly zealots of the SPD and some leftist magazines that went too far but I guess the French took the "Chirac est un ver" the way this yellow press filth should be taken: by ignoring it. Freedom of the press is sometimes hard to bear, I know.
Still I insist: The mistakes were made on both sides. And still are...
#34
TGA,
Sorry about the beligerance in my posts, but I am VERY upset by the German government's behavior in the last couple of years. None of this is directed at you - I understand your anguish at some of the comments I've posted, and that from many of the others here. I'm not mad at you, I'm not mad at "Germany", I'm mad at a man who has used my country as an object of derision in order to get elected to public office, and who has the unmitigated gall to say it's all our fault. Schroder has been a rough screech in our ears for long enough to go beyond annoying to active dislike. I know I'm not alone - I've even gotten several emails from GERMANS I know and respect, in Koblenz, in Wiesbaden, and in Bad Tolz, who also feel alienated by their elected officials.
We in this country feel it's perfectly fine to poke fun at, even ridicule, our government. We get VERY TOUCHY when someone outside does it, even when it's deserved. We only get angry, however, when someone deliberately does something to hurt us for no other reason than to curry favor with someone else. THIS is what Herr Schroder did that we cannot forgive - he not only didn't support us, he deliberately supported the French position. The deliberate sabotage of President Bush's attempt to impose the "penalty clause" in Resolution 1441 will take a generation to forgive. Germany's part in that leaves a very bad taste each time we think about it. I'm sure you, and most of the German citizenry, feel the same way.
It's really a shame, too, because we DO have a long history of working side by side, as we do even today in Afghanistan. You've said some things here in this forum I didn't know, and it does ease some of the bitterness - the fact that the German Constitution forbids certain kinds of acts, except in very specific circumstances. That doesn't erase the bad feelings I have for your Chancellor, however, nor the anger I feel at his use of anti-American sentiment among the Socialists and Greens in Germany to get elected. That stinks, old friend, and no deoderant is strong enough to erase that smell as long as Schroder is Chancellor of Germany. I know, from my German friends, that Bill Clinton caused many of the same reactions among Germans.
Those are affairs of governments, not of men. Let us, the two of us, not stoop to such low behavior, but remain loyal to our core beliefs, which I believe are very much the same. Let us continue our friendship - including the ability as friends to disagree about matters important to each of us.
My warmest regards,
Mike Weatherford
MSgt, USAF, Retired
(Formerly of Wiesbaden, Germany, 1971-75, 1980-83, 1987-89)
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/10/2003 23:57 Comments ||
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#35
took a stand against being drawn into "pre-emptive" wars
But you say Germany has a constitution which prevents it from going to war, so how could it be drawn into this pre-emptive war anyway? No one expected Germany to send troops. In my opinion they need not have even financed the effort.
You claim that Germany chose their side based in part on American rebuke? Sheesh. I would not want to know what you think of me if I told you that Volkswagen cars suck.
And about denying Germany & France access to Iraq, if Germany & France have any honor, they would voluntarily stay out of the bidding process altogether, or at the very least quit making loud threats about this at the UN. They wanted no part of this war, so how could they now seek to benefit from it.
#36
TGA -- I remember hearing about our President not sending Schroder a congratulations note, as was always customary. I think that after running, as you say, an anti-Bush campaign, that expecting such a note is a little on the crazy side. If the situation was reversed, would Schroder have sent Bush a congratulations letter for running a similar campaign?
Rumsfeld isn't the most diplomatic person. I know that some of the things he said angered your country, and I do think it was deliberate. Neither side of this acted like angels, and we are willing to accept our share of the blame.
We have no problem with freedom of the press. That's included in the first amendment to our Constitution. Maybe that cover was intended just for domestic consumption, but something that inflammatory was bound to get out onto the internet. If you are going to make that kind of statement, you have to be prepared for the consequences. That kind of thing went way beyond "Chirac est un ver." Call my president a name, fine. Make an implication that my government is a fascist, totalitarian state, and that is another story.
We are more touchy about things like this now. I still don't think Europe gets it. When we are told to "get over 9/11", that we are "bloodthirsty warmongerers" and worse, we aren't going to ignore it like we did in the past. We are more willing to go it alone, we are going to take acts that seem like betrayal more seriously.
We know that there will be trade sanctions against America when we shut out French, German and Russian companies for rebuilding Iraq. For all the talk of us being "reckless cowboys", we do know how the game is played. We are just incredulous that countries who weren't part of the campaign (Germany is not the worst offender in this regard, but it's going to be lumped in with the rest) are now demanding to be let in, in some cases, ahead of the line. It doesn't seem consistent to us for you to protest this war, do everything possible to keep us from going in, and then at the end insist on being part of the rebuilding.
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/11/2003 1:09 Comments ||
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#37
Thank you, Old Patriot, it's exactly because I know that most people here are in fact very intelligent and fair I take time to post here. And I feel honored being encouraged to do so.
The war aversion is deeply implanted in our collective mind: this makes it easy for mediocre politicians to exploit this feeling. But while parts of the left may cherish a certain form of "Anti-American superiority", this feeling is is not shared by the great majority of Germans. If you have been in Germany you will notice how "americanized" Germany actually is.
So let's just do what good democrats do: run non performers out of office and start again.
#38
TGA,
For the most part I agree with you.I have no problem with the Red Cross administering aid.But the U.N et.al.tried to screw the Coalition of the Willing and in so doing marginalized itself.Until the Dictator/terrorist dominated U.N.S.C.is cleaned-up it has no moral authority to have a say in anything.
By the way just who do you think will provide security for humanitarian relief convoys?
As the war in Iraq winds to its inevitable end, uneasy reflections are taking over Russia's political and military elite. No one in Moscow ever seriously believed that Saddam Hussein might indeed "defeat" the allied forces. But the speed and decisiveness of the offensive has bewildered many. Russian generals were expecting another prolonged so-called non-contact war, like the one against Yugoslavia in 1999, in Afghanistan in 2001 or the first gulf war in 1991, when a four-day ground offensive was preceded by a 39-day air bombardment. It was believed that the Americans were afraid of close hand-to-hand encounters, they would not tolerate the inevitable casualties, and that in the final analysis they were cowards who relied on technical superiority. The Russian media is generally avoiding the hard questions and serving up anti-American propaganda instead. It is alleged that the U.S. government is "concealing casualties" (like its Russian counterpart), and that hundreds if not thousands of U.S. soldiers have already been killed. Maybe this deceit will become the main semi-official excuse for disregarding the allied victory. Seems the Arab street isn't the only "credibility challenged" entity...
There was a report in Jihad Unspun yesterday that a nurse in Kuwait had seen "with his own eyes" 700 U.S./Brit corpses on ice that we were afraid to admit to. Why we should store them in a Kuwaiti hospital rather than conceal them on one of our ships in the Gulf wasn't mentioned. There are periodic reports, that show up in the Pak press, of 800 corpses from the Afghan campaign similarly iced at Jacobabad airbase. It's easier to spin Famous Victories in your head than it is to fight them on the ground.
Posted by: Capsu78 ||
04/10/2003 11:14 am ||
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#1
I couldn't get the link to work, so try pasting this one. Godd article from the "losers bench"
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/04/10/009.html
#2
It's not mentioned in the article, naturally, but a lot of Saddam's military equipment was Russian. I'd hate to be one of their tank salesmen right now.
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/10/2003 11:44 Comments ||
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#3
Ralph Peters is on this topic as well. He's worth reading.
#4
I'da hated to be one of their tank salesmen after GWI. The T72 was not impressive when up against the Abrams. But they kept selling the doggone things. They look ferocious, and the price tag's a damn sight lower than it would be for an Abrams. And of course, when used against one's civilian population, they're perfectly servicable.
Posted by: Fred ||
04/10/2003 12:07 Comments ||
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#5
Actually, the idea that there are massive unreported US casualties from both Afghanistan and Iraq is conventional wisdom to the looney left -- and is steadily creeping into the mainstream left.
Oddly enough, I do accept that idea that there might be casualties we don't know about -- possibly involving the CIA and the "darker" end of special ops. But I don't think it would be possible to hide hundreds of them. For one thing, we probably don't have hundreds of such operatives.
Posted by: Patrick Phillips ||
04/10/2003 12:11 Comments ||
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#7
JAB's link to Ralph PEters: After its inept attempt at strategic blackmail, North Korea has grown very quiet. Doubtless, we shall hear a great deal more rhetoric as the shock of our victory begins to wear off.
Wha? Aww, I was getting to enjoy the rhetoric show...
Fred's right. Den Beste at USS Clueless has a good article on the future of the Tank where he discusses that very point.
#8
As a product demonstration of Soviet/Russian military doctrine and equipment, both Gulf Wars have been a disaster for the Russians.
I think this has been as big a factor in their opposition to the war as the oil deals.
So Russia is doubly screwed--they won't be able to economically piggy back on high oil prices and
the customer base for their hardware must be shrinking every day.
Actually, that last bit is unfortunate for us.
Based on the track record of Russian euipment, and especially their maintenance capabilities, I'd want our enemies and potential enemies to keep buying Russia, Inc.'s stuff.
Our troops did not fight to "control ground" as the Soviets and Germans did in WW2, our troops sought out the enemy to kill them. They didnt get stuck to taking geographic objectives, if those objectives would have slowed the pace or taken focus of the primary mission, whcih was, once again to engage, close with and kill the enemy, destroying his ability and will to fight.
Its really that simple. The US has been doing this doctrinally since the 1980's, when the 2nd Armored Cavalry pioneered those very tactics. They were controversial at the time, because we were still defending Germany ad were suppsoed to be more concerned with holding ground against the Soviets. Credit the 60th Colonel of the Regiment, MG Robert E. Wagner, "The Dueler" of the 2ACR in the early 1980's for starting this change in warfighting in the US Army.
#10
As an Army friend of mine said (frequently!), the purpose of the US Army is to kill people and break things, in an orderly fashion and under civilian leadership. They do it very well, as the Iraqis (and the rest of the world) have learned.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/10/2003 16:40 Comments ||
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The article itself ends with a rhetorical call on the Russian Army to reform itself and to come up to modern standards. What no one there wants to admit is that this isn't possible. Russia is actually a third world nation, and it cannot afford a first class army. The kind of military force, size and quality, that they nostalgically remember from the Good Old Days of the Cold War didn't actually exist, and even the attempt to maintain the sham ended up contributing massively to the end of the Soviet Union.
The kind of military we have is enormously expensive. The weapons are expensive, the training is expensive, and the ammunition is expensive. Russia isn't even remotely capable of affording it, and won't be able to any time soon. And neither is anyone else in the world. You can only have a military like ours when you have a civilian economy like ours.
The reason we have the military we do is because we've spent hundreds of billions of dollars every year for the last couple of decades on it. And we can do that because our economy is so huge that it can pay for that without being damaged by it.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste ||
04/10/2003 20:27 Comments ||
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#12
Interestingly enough Steve, the quality of our society is also based on the quality of our military. Lots of advances in science and technology are pioneered in US military labs has had enormous feedback on the economy. One of the things that keeps our society in the forefront of development is the fact that we keep out military in the forefront of development!
There is another important difference between our military and the Russian one - ours is an under, but regularly paid, all-volunteer force. Our men and women train, and if necessary, fight everyday, knowing that they will be paid, fed, and cared for as a benefit of their service. Russians cannot count on anything nearly the same The amazing thing about the Russians is that they can find ANYONE to join their military - it is a testament to the character of those men and women in Russia that do serve - there must be VERY few of them.
Let me enlighten some of you regarding the quality of US military equipment. Its the best in the world. Can you imagine how good it would be if our forces actually had enough spare parts, time, and people to accomplish what it is actually supposed to?? I left the air force about 4 years ago. Hopefully things have improved, but (as a legacy of the Clinton administration's defense budget poilcy) when I left, we were constantly being asked to do more work with fewer people, parts and money, in less time. In fact, you can probably blame some of the equipment failures in the current conflict directly on the govt's disasterous military fiscal policy during the Clinton years.
Steve W.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 20:56 Comments ||
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#13
we were constantly being asked to do more work with fewer people, parts and money, in less time.
Standard joke when I was in: "I've been asked to do so much with so little in less time, that I can now do anything with nothing, instantly." It's been going on at LEAST since Nixon, and possibly since Eisenhower. It's just gotten worse since the early 1990's.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/10/2003 23:25 Comments ||
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#14
It will continue.
It's starting to look like Moore's law in reverse.
It looks right now like the improvement isn't possible... but it's already in the pipeline.
I've seen some of the stuff that's coming. Right now, it's in its infancy still.
It will be there, though.
#15
Saw a docu.on History Chanel about Russian small arms.Seems the Russians have developed an assault rifle that use both recoil,and gas blowback to chamber the next round.This allows the weapon to send 2 rounds down range with 1 squeeze of the trigger,with much greater accuracy than the AK74.The problem is they can not afford the cost to supply thier military.In addition the can't sell it overseas because during and after the Cold War they flooded the Third World with so many AK47's that an Ak47 can be baught for $50US.
(The Laws of Supply and Demand)
...And are les Francaise waking up to smell l'espresso?
The French President has welcomed the fall of Saddam Hussein. Despite opposing military action Jacques Chirac acknowledged the role of American and British troops in deposing the dictator. Didn't we say this victory would send a message clear as a bell to enemies of civilisation the world over? It's even being heard in Europe.
Before the war he blocked a new UN resolution which would have given full political backing for launching an attack. Anglo-French relations have been deeply damaged but his apparent desire to look ahead to stick his oily greedy fingers into rebuilding Iraq will sour help the mood when EU leaders meet in Athens next week to discuss Iraq's future. President Chirac said that the job now was to create the conditions to return freedom and dignity to the Iraqi people and restore "full sovereignty" as soon as possible. Can anyone read to this without feeling the urge to vomit?
But there are rumblings in France about the French President's stand following the broadcast of archive pictures of the then French Prime Minister Chirac with the then Vice-President Saddam Hussein in a French nuclear power station. "Rumblings"? Trop petite, trop tarde.
The image is an reminder of his success in sealing a deal to sell Saddam two nuclear reactors. The French public is also being reminded that, for all his criticism of military action to rid Saddam Hussein of weapons of mass destruction, it was Prime Minister Chirac who agreed to ship weapons-grade uranium to Iraq - a decision vetoed by the then French President Valery Giscard d'Estaing. Forget foresight - the French have the clearest hindsight toute le monde! OK, my French needs polish.
Posted by: Bulldog ||
04/10/2003 05:16 am ||
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That was Ananova - Beeb has more...
"BBC correspondent Emma Jane Kirby, in Paris, says that many French people, who believed this was an illegal and hot-headed war, have been stunned by the welcome American forces received in Baghdad on Wednesday.
The French newspaper, Liberation, has warned that President Chirac is now threatened with isolation on the international stage. He has become, says the paper, the king of peace without a crown. [A pimp without a whore.] Our correspondent says France fears the US will cut it out of contracts for the reconstruction of Iraq for failing to back the coalition."
Fear of international and historical shame? Mais non! Fear of loss of Euros.
#7
The French Ministry cannot believe that Chirac did not think that the Iraqis would welcome the Marines. He was mistaken and now he will pay. The French are politicians are looking like the weasels they are.
Posted by: George ||
04/10/2003 9:07 Comments ||
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#8
Hope you enjoy weekly luncheons with your fifth column buddies, Mssr. Chiraq. Justice is sweet!
Bwwwwaaaaahhhhahahahaha!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/10/2003 10:45 Comments ||
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#9
So, is the backlash against Chiraq starting in Paris? Wonder what other little gems they'll pull out of the archives. Tres interessant. Nothing like weasel versus weasel.
It would be funny if somehow he had to leave his position. Isn't he facing criminal prosecution if he steps down?
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/10/2003 11:54 Comments ||
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#10
That a$$h@le didn't have the balls to say it himself. It was a "statement" released by his office. Spineless piece of sh*t.
#11
Yes, Former Russian. Chirac has immunity (except for treason...Yeah, I know what you are all thinking) as long as he remains president. His crimes go back to his days as Paris mayor when he did the usual public works kickback schemes to enrich his Gaullist party and self, ficticious jobs for buddies, etc.
Posted by: Michael ||
04/10/2003 13:10 Comments ||
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#12
Hell, Michael, that sounds like standard operating procedure for an old style machine politician to me. The only thing he's missing is dead people voting for him a couple of times in a close election. ;)
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/10/2003 20:32 Comments ||
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Hafta use fifth column, there's no "dork" option:
Actor Sean Penn's car was stolen as he lunched at a Downtown Berkeley restaurant yesterday afternoon, police said. The car, a black 1987 Buick Grand National, was taken in broad daylight between 1 and 2:45 p.m. while it was parked on the 2300 block of Shattuck Avenue, said Berkeley police Officer Mary Kusmiss. Not a good day for Sean. First Saddam's statue comes down, and then his bitchin' ride gets stolen.
Penn, 42, told police he had a loaded 9 mm Glock handgun inside his car in addition to an unloaded .38-caliber Smith & Wesson revolver in the trunk. It was legal for Penn to have the guns in his car because he has a state concealed weapons permit, Kusmiss said. God help us, he's ARMED!! Or maybe I should say, WAS armed!
An officer remembered seeing the car heading south on Shattuck from Derby Street about 2:35 p.m before Penn reported the theft, Kusmiss said. Penn was eating lunch at Venus restaurant with his assistant when the theft occurred. The actor was "very mellow" in the aftermath of the crime, Kusmiss said. Penn declined to comment about the incident. "I'm not talking. I'm just having a cigarette," Penn told The Daily Californian. Wish he would have shown similar vocal restraint a few months ago after visiting Iraq......
About 70 percent of cars stolen in Berkeley are eventually found. Kusmiss said Penn's car may turn up sooner than others because it is a distinctive model that is "highly visible." Penn, who lives in Marin County, is a three-time Academy Award nominee for Best Actor. His car has a California license plate of 2GRS995. Anybody with information about this case can contact the Berkeley Police Department at 981-5900.
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/10/2003 09:12 pm ||
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Now here's a target for one of those "reckless gun law suits" if ever there was one.
Loaded gun in car? Another, unloaded, in the trunk.
Let's see. If one of those weapons turns up as having been used in a crime, what do we all say about filing that suit against Mr. Penn?
All in favor, say "aye."
Posted by: Larry ||
04/10/2003 21:35 Comments ||
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#2
I didn't know Berkeley was such a dangerous town, dude. If I ever go, I be packin' heat, man.
#3
Don't know how it works in Cal,but in Az.if you take a weapon on campus(any campus)your butt is going to jail.By the way,what does a cameraman punching peacenik need with a weapon?
Can't we settle all our disputes with dialoge?
GENE SIMMONS To Anti-War Protesters: 'Suck My Balls!' - Apr. 10, 2003
KISS bassist/vocalist Gene Simmons has posted the following
commentary to his official web site, www.genesimmons.com:
"Woke up this morning to the site of Saddam Hussein's head, torn
from its metallic statue base, in downtown Baghdad, being ridden by
Iraqi's!!! I saw Iraqi's running through the streets waving American
flags.
"I also watched with interest how the UN was insisting it had to
play the major role in rebuilding Iraq.
"And, of course, the French/Chirac led government and, I might add
the German government (who only last week on CNN strongly urged that
Hussein be removed â without so much as lifting a finger to do
anything about it), insisted that they be allowed to be involved in
the rebuilding of Iraq.
"In jail, bending over for the soap is not a good idea. In life, the
words SUCK MY BALLS in response, might be appropriate in this
instance.
"Further, I would like to add my condolences to all the American and
British and yes, the Iraqi families that lost loved ones in this
struggle...while the American media (the New York Times, the
Washington Post and other 'respected' newspapers) routinely trounced
the war effort.
"My heart goes out to people who suffer. And, although 'Might makes
Right' does not necessarily follow, in this case it does. Better the
good guys be Mighty, than the bad guys.
"As for being a Liberal. I am!!! I believe in equality -- for
everyone. I believe prejudice is the bane of mankind's existence.
"The whole world would have become a Communist World, if American
didn't stand up to Russia...don't kid yourself.
"And, I believe if you don't have the guts to stand up to injustice,
where ever it exists (and that means stopping the Germans, the
Japanese and the Italians in WW I and WW II...or the Albanian Serbs
in Bosnia...or the tragedies that keep on occurring in Africa...or
even the Viet Nam War....Panama...North Korea...the list goes on and
on)...
"One thing in common with all these events: AMERICA.
"America didn't stay and 'conquer' ANY OF THESE COUNTRIES.
"And, the UN??? It's a sham. It can't even decide what to do about
UNANIMOUSLY VOTING THAT HUSSEIN be punished.
"Me??? I'm ashamed to be surrounded by people calling themselves
Liberal who are, in my opinion, spitting on the graves of brave
American soldiers who gave their life to fight a war that wasn't
theirs...in a country they've never been to...simply to liberate the
people therein.
"I haven't said very much politically, because talk is cheap (yours
and mine). But the answer to any doubters lies in watching Iraq's
people dancing in the streets.
"Again, everyone who is marching today in a war protest, can line up
to my left to suck my balls."
Well Said Gene:-)
Posted by: Scott Ross ||
04/10/2003 06:34 pm ||
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I was pleased to read that Maureen Dowd yesterday criticized things that I (a.k.a. "Mr. Davis") had written as consistent with the thinking of some in the administration. I confess that her writing has long bothered me, always in times of national duress reflecting an elite superficiality that is out of touch with most of us in the America she flies over. It is not just that for the last two years she has been wrong about Afghanistan, wrong about the efficacy of the war against terror, and wrong about Iraq â despite yesterday's surprising sudden admission that "We were always going to win the war with Iraq." The problem is more a grotesque chicness that quite amorally juxtaposes mention of tidbits like alpha males, Manhattan fashion â and her own psychodramas â with themes of real tragedies like the dying in the Middle East and war's horror.
So she just doesn't get it. It is precisely because Mr. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz hate war, wish to avoid a repeat of the vaporization of 3,000 in Manhattan and the specter of further mass killing from terrorists, armed with frightening weapons from rogue states like Iraq, that they resorted to force. She evokes Sherman (who called something like 19th century Dowdism "bottled piety") with disdain, but forgets that Sherman, who saw firsthand the grotesqueness of Shiloh, proclaimed that war was all hell â but only after his trek through Georgia where he freed 40,000 slaves and destroyed the icons of the Confederacy, while losing 100 soldiers and killing not more than 600 young non-slave-holding Southerners, an hour's carnage at Antietam or Gettysburg.
It might be neat between cappuccinos to write about leaders getting "giddy" about winning a terrible war, or thinking up cool nicknames like "Rummy," "Wolfie," and titles like "Dances with Wolfowitz," but meanwhile out in the desert stink thousands of young Americans, a world away from the cynical Letterman world of Maureen Dowd, risk their lives to ensure that there are no more craters in her environs â and as a dividend give 26 million a shot at the freedom that she so breezily enjoys.
#1
Ouch. This one could be titled, "VDH Puts His Boot Up Modo's Butt".
Posted by: Patrick Phillips ||
04/10/2003 14:39 Comments ||
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#2
caught this also at Instapundit - it'll make the rounds. She's so irrelevant any more, someone best described her act as neurotic Junior-League debutante that never grew up -
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/10/2003 14:55 Comments ||
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#3
I really didn't think that he'd deign to reply to her nonsense, but this is the best MoDo put down I've ever read.
My introduction to MoDo was her column in which she archly put down the Afghani Northern Alliance fighters with their wood-saddled horses. Within a week, those same cavalry troopers had staged a night raid on dug-in T-55's, winning a stunning victory. She never retracted a word.
Rep. James P. Moron Moran, who suggested last month that American Jews had nudged the nation into war, has offended some Jews again by suggesting a pro-Israel lobbying group will finance an effort to unseat him. "How dare anyone run against me! I'm an incumbent, you know!"
The Virginia Democrat suggested at a recent party meeting that the lobbying group will raise $2 million in an effort to defeat him next year. "It's not paranoia, they're really out to get me!"
Moran, a seven-term incumbent, said the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) has begun organizing against him and will "direct a campaign against me and take over the campaign of a Democratic opponent," The Washington Post reported Thursday. "Those J-E-W-S are always taking over things!"
AIPAC spokeswoman Rebecca Dinar called Moran's comments "evidence he's gone off his medication again" "ridiculous" and said the organization "had no idea" what the congressman was talking about. AIPAC by law cannot raise money for candidates and by policy does not endorse candidates, Dinar said.
That's too bad. I was going to kick in a few bucks, and I'm neither Jewish nor a Democrat. Come to think of it, I'm not a Virginian, either...
In an interview Wednesday, Moran said he was simply "relaying what I had heard" from a little voice inside his head fellow House member about fund-raising activity against him by AIPAC members in Florida. He said he didn't know if it was true but added, "It's conceivable." "Anything's possible, you know."
"You'd have to be naive not to recognize that AIPAC is a very important network of people organized around a cause .... But if I have to run against a national network that I don't have the ability to communicate with, it's going to be very difficult." "They may have already implanted a computer chip in my butt to control me."
David Friedman, Washington regional director for the Anti-Defamation League, said of Moran's reported remarks, "This only confirms what we already knew: that Jim Moran is a raving moonbat bigoted man who perpetuates age-old canards and stereotypes about Jews." "Remember, we Democrats are the party of tolerance and brotherhood â right, Cynthia?"
Posted by: Mike ||
04/10/2003 11:48 am ||
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We Democrats are gonna ditch him in the primary - Leslie Byrne for Congress!!!!!
#2
In fake news this morning, backpedaled when confronted with his interesting views about Jewish conspiracies. "Okay - maybe it isn't specifically the Hebes," he said in a press conference outside his South Carolina vacation home. "It was the Republicans. For all their talk about how important unilateralism is, the fact is they fear it. Here I am, working hand in hand with politically disparate politicians like David Dukes and Pat Buchanan, and it's freakin' 'em out. I represent the potential for a unification along all party lines, and hence a way to make the world safe from kikes, darkies, and wetbacks. The Republicans don't want anything to do it - they're the ones living in a dream world." The Anti-Defamation League said of his remarks, "Holy shit! How did this f**ker ever get elected to congress?!"
We R-types wish you well in that endeavor. Good luck and good hunting.
Posted by: Mike ||
04/10/2003 12:15 Comments ||
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the delightfully named James Moran
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/10/2003 12:29 Comments ||
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I apologize if the above fake news dispatch is over the top, but I have to ask, isn't it just weird to see some democrats embracing the same bigoted qualities with which they have stereotyped Republicans for the last umpteen decades?
#6
Mike he only got 60% last time in the general, against an unknown Republican, in the most solid Dem district in northern Virginia. (the legislature here protects incumbents by putting all the Dems in Morans district, and leaving Davis and Wolf's districts solidly GOP. this leaves Moran's district very oddly shaped - it stretches along a highway to get Reston, on of northern Fairfaxz county's only Dem enclaves. This helps Dem Moran, as well as GOP Davis and Wolf) I dont want to use the word "cakewalk", but my confidence is high. biggest obstacle is potential division among the challengers State Sen. (and Ex-congresswoman) Byrne, Fairfax cnty exec Hanley, ex-Lt.Gov Beyer, and dark horse ex-Gore aid Bash.
#11
actually OS, most of bedroom Nova votes republican - NoVa has 3 cong. Districts, 2 are solidly GOP - Affluent folks in Fairfax, contractors in Loudon, military all over. The 8th is Arlington, Alex, and a few parts of fairfax - minorities, gays, Jews, single condo dwellers, rehabbers.
Dems do at least as well in central city Richmond as in Nova.
In any case Moran is NOT particularly liberal - he supports "pro-business" credit reform, and was one of a handful of dems who broke ranks on a key procedural vote on Clintons impeachment. The anti-Israel stuff (and its antisemitic overtones) isnt out of leftism - its more out of left field.
"Thousands of union workers bearing American flags and homemade signs packed a rally at ground zero Thursday to show their support for U.S. military efforts in Iraq."
#13
What I really find silly is the fact that Jews actually vote fro Democrats. Have they not learned from the mistakes of Dimmy Carter and Zipper Clinton? If these are your friends, you don't need any enemies.
Edited for length:
Baghdad's jubilation got the cold shoulder from some journalists yesterday.The press did not question the raising of the American flag over Iwo Jima back in 1945. But only minutes after President Saddam Hussein's statue toppled before overjoyed Iraqis, NBC's Kelly O'Donnell asked Central Command spokesman U.S. Navy Capt. Frank Thorpe whether it was appropriate for Marine Cpl. Edward Chin to briefly cover the statue's face with a U.S. flag. The act implied the United States already had assumed control of the regime, Miss O'Donnell said. CNN's Wolf Blitzer and Christiane Amanpour made a similar query a short time later. "We are sensitive to the Iraq culture," Capt. Thorpe told the networks separately. "We are a liberating force, not an occupying force." What he really wanted to say was "Bite me!".
Octavia Nasr, CNN's analyst for Middle Eastern news media, called the flag moment "a mistake," and a "shock ... sending a message that the U.S. was there to invade." Shock changed to relief among Arab audiences, she said, once the American flag was replaced by an Iraqi flag. In an interview later in the day, Cpl. Chin's sister Connie gave her own perspective. "We got a call saying he was a real hero," she told CNN. "We're so proud of him." Me too
Perspectives also differed yesterday. While Fox News described the Baghdad scene as "filled with hundreds of joyful people," ABC's Peter Jennings' characterized the throng as "a small crowd." Collective media doubt even affected Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld. "We shouldn't take away from the jubilation these people feel," he told reporters yesterday, noting the situation presented a historic opportunity for journalists to record the stories of newly liberated Iraqi eyewitnesses. "Truth ultimately finds its way to people's ear and eyes," Mr. Rumsfeld said. The Media Research Center made light of the skeptical press in an online poll yesterday, asking, "Which journalist do you think is the most glum" after Iraqi cheering started? The poll ranked ABC's Mr. Jennings first with 78 percent of the votes, followed by free-lancer Peter Arnett (17 percent) and CBS' Lara Logan (5 percent.) Jennings looked sick at the sight of cheering Iraqis
Vice President Dick Cheney told the American Society of Newspaper editors that press criticism of war plans had been off the mark, calling the chorus of second-guessers "retired military officers embedded in TV studios." Snicker
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 08:54 am ||
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#1
This is probably a closer run thing then it looks, but hey, I'll take a win.
I still think we have a wonderful oppertunity to blow the peace
#2
The flag didn't run up a flagpole, which could have been offensive, but rather it covered the statues face, looking much more like an executioners hood... a very desireabel effect.
The soldiers also stepped way back to allow the locals to figure out a way to bring Saddam dowm by their own devices, but the rope was way too short, and the knot broke... so in moved the tow vehicle to do it right.
I think the soldiers were about as behind the scenes as could be, but that statue needed to come down and they where running out of daylight.
Anybody bent out of shape about the short US flag photo op I would say has already "tipped" opinion wise and is looking to knit pick... We aren't exactly acting like the "Pirates of the Carribean" here.
Nice photo op! Oh, and the flag was hung by a NYer in honor of some buddy he lost 9-11, so sorry in advance if anyone gets gassy about this scene.
#3
Now Jennings knows how I feel; I voted for CLinton in '98 and I'm *still* depressed about it. There is also the possibility that Jennings suffers from any number of chemical imbalances which may result in manic depression, bi-polar disorder, and other psychoses. Heck, for all we know he may be in post-partum depression after his false pregnancy episode. I propose we refer to Jennings from now on as the Information Minister of ABC.
#4
I saw an interview with one of the soldiers (Marines?) who eventually helped pull the statue down. The Iraqis were putting the rope on the statue and trying to pull it down, and the reporter asked him if his unit couldn't do it and he said he figured they wanted to do it themselves - it was a pride thing. (So much for Americans not being sensitive to other cultures!) Later, when asked to help, they agreed (happily, I'm sure). I'm so proud of him and all the rest of our military.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
04/10/2003 10:02 Comments ||
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I read someplace that Barbara Walters did an interview with two Iraqi Women expatriates about Saddam's Regime. After the interview Walters and Jennings "discussed" whether they were legitimate or not.
I pray to God that I'll be there when Jennings faces his Maker at the Great White Throne Judgement.
#6
Cpl. Edward Chin, the man who helped the Iraqis bring down Saddam yesterday, was on the Today show. The flag he put up over Saddams face was in the Pentagon when it was attacked on 9.11.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 10:38 Comments ||
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#7
I like to check out Fisk for the memes the left will use
His memes:1. Its good Saddam is down, but dont forget the US set him up
2. Theyre welcoming us now, but they welcomed the Baathists as liberators 35 years ago
3. We have no real connection to them - we're alien
4. He found one woman who said "soon we will want them to go, there will be resistance, they will call us terrorists"
5. Lots of talk about the looting, even calling it "mass destruction"
6. Yes they'll find mass graves, but around here thats only an excuse to pour more blood on them
Discussion and responses
1. A. thats exagerated, we didnt set him in power, just gave limited help in Iran war. B.In any case all the more reason we were obligated to do this now.
2. A. No citation for that B. You really think we'll act like the Baath did?
3.That right - we're not here to annex or colonize - just to help them and get out
4. When the majority is ready for us to leave, we WILL leave. Meanwhile of course the population is NOT unanimously in support of us - democracy means the right to disagree - probably 10 to 20% of the population IS NOT happy now, we understand that, its ok.
5. looting is not that big a deal, its understandable, and will be brought under control shortly
6. This is Fisk favorite, the revenger killing meme. You show the US/UK are wrong in Kosovo, by showing Kosovars who kill Serbs. You show we're wrong in Afghan by showing Tajiks who kill Pashtuns (or even Taliban POW's) You equate these to the crimes of the prior regime.
A. He's anticipating - hasnt even happened yet, here. B. In past cases, "friendly atrocities" were on very small scale, and were not organized" C. We will do our best, here as elsewhere, to stop these.
#8
What Peter, Octavia, et al missed was that when the US flag was put on Sammy's head, the crowd of Iraqis cheered.
Steve, thanks for the news about the flag Cpl. Chin used. That makes it an even more special moment, both for us and for the Iraqis.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/10/2003 11:29 Comments ||
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#9
It's winning the peace that bothers me, too. Getting Iraq under control will be like trying to impose order on a classroom full of 9 year-old boys with ADD. No wonder P.J. O'Rourke called the Middle East "God's Monkey House."
Posted by: joe ||
04/10/2003 12:07 Comments ||
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#10
In all this discussion by the media of the appropriateness of putting the American flag on the statue they didn't ask how the statue itself felt about it! Although it's too late now, Arnett should've been there at the moment the statue collapsed, shoving a microphone to its face and asking "Oh powerful one, Oh most holy one, creator of all things, how does it feel to see the crowds corrupted so by that weak occupying cowardly army?? Save us oh my beloved master!"
BTW, isn't Jennings Canadian?
Time to clean that green scum off the surface of Australia's political pond!
Our very own Baghdad Bob, Bob Brown 'Dear Leader' of The Greens (how embarrassing for the country: the loony left comes to parliament)has taken out front page ads in the SMH condemning the war, and has vomited doom and gloom every step of the war.
--- The hot air that clouds Bob's view
Two months ago, in stating the Australian Greens' absolute opposition to Australian involvement in the liberation of the Iraqi people, he told the Senate that more than 100,000 children under the age of five were expected to die (they haven't), that 950,000 Iraqis would become refugees (wrong again), that 1,230,000 would be left highly vulnerable to a pandemic (no sign of that yet), that two million would be internally displaced (Baghdad's parks seem to have fewer homeless than Sydney's) and that two million children and a million Iraqi mothers would be in urgent need of food aid (in a country of 23 million, of whom more than 60 per cent were in need of food hand-outs under Saddam Hussein, this prediction seems really off track). Continuing to outline his vision of doom, he said 5,400,000 would be in urgent need of supplies and 18 million would be in urgent need of services such as water and sewage treatment to protect their health. "That is all providing there is not the use of nuclear weapons," he noted with his usual gift for hysterical hyberbole.
If, as Senator Brown said recently, "Saddam Hussein was contained before this war," why did Saad Ahmed, a 54-year-old retired English teacher tell reporters earlier this week : "We have been waiting for you for a long time. We are now happier than you. You are victorious as far as the war is concerned, but we are victorious in life. We have been living, not as human beings, for more than 30 years." If Senator Brown's Greens had their way, poor old Saad Ahmed would have been looking to live out the rest of his life under a "contained" Saddam instead of kissing British servicemen in the streets of Basra.
And what of the hundreds of children â children â who were released by US Marines from a special prison in northeast Baghdad where they had been held because they had refused to joined the youth branch of the Ba'ath party. Even Scott Ritter, the anti-war former UN arms inspector, recipient of Arab cash and pursuer of young girls, is appalled by the state of Iraq's children's prisons, telling Time magazine last September: "The prison in question is at the General Security Services headquarters, which was inspected by my team in January, 1998. It appeared to be a prison for children â toddlers up to pre-adolescents â whose only crime was to be the offspring of those who have spoken out politically against the regime of Saddam Hussein. "It was a horrific scene. Actually I'm not going to describe what I saw there because what I saw was so horrible that it can be used by those who would want to promote war with Iraq and right now I'm waging peace."
Ritter knew that he had witnessed horrific scenes that would provide ammunition to humanitarians anxious to liberate the Iraqi people â the very people Senator Brown wanted to see remain subject to the evil regime of the "contained" Saddam. Yesterday, despite the overwhelming evidence that the prosecution of the war has been swift and effective with minimal civilian casualties, Senator Brown was still at it, condemning the Government and calling for an independent international inquiry into the "killing and maiming of innocent men, women and children". "I think now it's going extremely badly," he said of the war. The evidence, again, gives the lie to that statement. Just like Baghdad Bob, I christen you... Baghdad Bob! I call on all Australians to forthwith refer to him only as "Baghdad Bob". Bob Brown: exposed and left high and dry just like the rest of the Coalition of the Wrong.
Posted by: Anon1 ||
04/10/2003 04:39 am ||
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oops, too eager, Fred: please can you relocate this to 'fifth column' for me? ty v much.
hahah the fifth column has lost all credibility now.
Worse, they can't see it. It would be better for them to just admit mistake and jump on the winning team: but they don't. They just look for more and more straws to clutch at.
Mind you some of the public are so stupid that they'll still follow them...
#2
Saw a film clip of a"Human Shield"(Course the slut was coragouslly shielding the Palistine Hotel)ragging on a U.S. Marine.Couldn't believe the restraint that young marine displayed.It was like watching a small bird harrassing a cat,with the cat ignoring the bird like the unimportant nusense she is.Personally I would have spit in her face.
#4
I saw a clip of that same marine and the human shield. He was checking for possible snipers and the crowd turning nasty. He was working and not paying attention to her. I've been in the same position, I'd have not noticed her either.
It did piss me off though, even though there was dancing in the streets, that woman had enough vehemence in her to continue to berate someone who was risking his life to do his job, and had no part in the decision to go to war.
I'm allergic to those kinds of people, they make be break out in fits of violence.
#5
Of course she was being real brave, now that there was little chance she would actually have to catch a bullet or two for "the cause". If that scene didn't depict the professionalism of the coalition forces, I don't know what would.
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/10/2003 12:08 Comments ||
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#6
I've taken to calling Baghdad Bob's Party "the Browns" because they are led by a Brown and full of s**t.
Posted by: Aussie Mike ||
04/10/2003 17:07 Comments ||
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The British Royal Navy said Iraq's only deep-water port of Umm Qasr would receive its first merchant ship carrying humanitarian aid on Saturday. A ship carrying 700 tonnes of foodstuff will go in in the next couple of days, Steve Tatham, a Royal Navy spokesman based in Bahrain, said. He said the shipment would be quickly followed by two Australian-flagged vessels carrying some 28,000 tonnes of wheat. The port has been closed to merchant shipping while coalition forces cleared mines from the approaches to the port. He said more merchant vessels carrying large cargoes of aid would follow in quick succession.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/10/2003 02:47 pm ||
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Late Thursday, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Kurdish troops and U.S. forces from the Army's 173rd Airborne Brigade had entered Mosul, Iraq's third-largest city, and were "being welcomed by the people."
The commander of the Iraqi army's 5th Corps and the governor-general are expected to surrender to U.S. special operations troops in the Mosul area, U.S. military sources told CNN on Thursday. Details were being worked out between the Iraqis and U.S. forces, officers at U.S. Central Command told CNN.
Mosul was one of the coalition's prime targets for the bombing campaign. In the past 24-hours, the coalition flew 1,750 sorties, 550 of them strike sorties, Pentagon officials said. Coalition aircraft launched what officials called their heaviest wave of bombing along the burgeoning northern front early Thursday.
The 5th Corps' combat strength was estimated at 30,000 troops when the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq began March 20, but it is unknown what toll heavy airstrikes and desertions have taken on its three infantry divisions and one mechanized infantry division, U.S. military sources told CNN. Still, the corps' surrender would remove a significant obstacle to coalition control of the city.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
04/10/2003 11:21 pm ||
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In testimony to a Senate committee Thursday, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz ruled out a leading role for the United Nations in postwar Iraq. So, ah, Jacque-ass, don't call me again!
Wolfowitz said the U.N. role would be determined by the war coalition, the Iraqi people and U.N. members,except France but added, "It can't be the managing partner. It can't be in charge. What we're trying to avoid is a situation that we've seen in other places of the world where Iraq might become a sort of permanent ward of the international community. There's no reason for that to happen." Priceless.
#2
"What we're trying to avoid is a situation that we've seen in other places of the world where Iraq might become a sort of permanent ward of the international community," he said. "There's no reason for that to happen."
That is a great comment! Without any diplomatic-ese. Wolfowitz has put our Iraq vis a vis UN policy to the Senate committee as a matter of public record. The mention of permanent ward of the international community was pricess, referring to about anything the UN has done.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/10/2003 21:07 Comments ||
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#3
Best news I've heard since Bessy calved twins!
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/10/2003 21:22 Comments ||
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#4
Some one had better tell Colin about this - quick.
And the State Dept. folks, too.
Perhaps we should make some "vacancies" at State in the process.
Halleleujah! Let's keep our fingers crossed that someone doesn't get "PC" jitters and renege.
Posted by: Larry ||
04/10/2003 21:40 Comments ||
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When Thumper flies an F-16, she flies solo, acting as pilot, navigator and bombardier. "I actually like it that way, because it gives me the opportunity to be in control of the jet, not have somebody second-guessing the things that I'm doing, and I like that aspect of flying this jet, " she says.
Thumper is the Air Force captain's "call-sign." For security reasons, active-duty pilots use only their call signs for identification.
Thumper's first mission in the war on Iraq was on March 20, the day the war started. Asked if she was scared, she says, "I know that I've been trained well to do my job, so I wasn't scared. I have a strong faith in God ... I pray before every mission, and I put it in his hands."
Thumper says her faith does not conflict with duty as a fighter pilot which requires her to drop bombs which may kill people. "I know a lot of people find those to be contradictory, but I believe that God's put me in this job," she said. "Nobody really wants to go to war, but it's our job as fighter pilots to be prepared to do that. And no fighter pilot wants to get left behind when a war is going on." You go, girl!
Faith was some comfort when lightning struck her plane during a bombing mission into Iraq. "We went up into northern Iraq in support of some of the Army forces, and they were calling us in ... to put the bombs on a road intersection which was right in the middle of an engagement they were having with the enemy."
The bombs destroyed the road between the Iraqi and coalition troops.
"They said that the bombs we put into that place actually ended up ending the conflict there," she said recalling the mission. "It was a really good feeling inside to know that we had helped support the ground troops. I know those guys are working really hard. They're getting less sleep, (they are) less comfortable than we are. And my job is to be out there to support them and to help them stay alive." Take that, ya Fedayeen scum: you got killed by a girl!
During the mission, lightening struck Thumper's plane, knocking out her threat warning system, which tells her whether she is being targeted by anti-aircraft artillery fire. "That was a little bit stressful, but everything else was OK," she said, adding that she was flying next to another plane able to detect anti-aircraft fire.
On another mission, Thumper dropped bombs on the Medina Republican Guard to "soften" forces before Marine troops moved into Baghdad. I'll bet she did soften them, too.
Thumper showed a reporter a bomb to be loaded onto one of the F-16s. Scrawled on the top is a message: "Die Saddam." Another message says: "This one is going straight into your grave, Saddam." Ah, bomb nose art. I just hope someone has been taking pictures of the best ones.
Messages like those are not unusual she says. "It's actually pretty common for our different troops. ... It's part of their motivation and their effort in the war."
Thumper uses an in-flight computer screen to select a bomb or missile she will drop. "We'll display on there what types of munitions we have selected. We can toggle through the different selections and choose the one that we want to drop." Then she selects the master arms switch and presses what's called the "pickle button" to dispense the munition.
Asked if she feels tense before dropping a bomb or missile, she says, "I definitely have adrenaline pumping ... kind of like getting ready for athletic competition. You just have that anticipation of making sure that you've taken all the correct steps and you are dropping on the right coordinates, that you are dropping on the right thing."
What advice does Thumper have for women and girls who want to follow her career path?
"This is a great and rewarding career. Right now in the military, there are opportunities open to women that they just haven't had in the past. And I would tell them to, if they have a dream, to go for it." You bet. Thanks for all your hard work, Thumper, and may you always fly safe.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/10/2003 05:24 pm ||
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#1
Cool! You go, girl! Get the job done and come back safe!
Posted by: Dar ||
04/10/2003 17:44 Comments ||
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But.....some one had better tell those idiots in the press that published the name of that B-1 pilot who dropped those 4 bombs trying to get Uncle Sadaam in Baghdad the other day. They even showed his face. Nice to set up a "target" for the bad guys, ain't it!
Posted by: Larry ||
04/10/2003 21:43 Comments ||
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Coalition airstrikes pounded Iraqi positions near Syria on Thursday, as special forces troops monitored the porous frontier to prevent regime loyalists from escaping and fresh fighters from entering Iraq, U.S. officials said. The focus on al-Qaim in far western Iraq highlights its strategic importance to Saddam Hussein's regime. Most Iraqi surface-to-surface missiles fired during the 1991 Gulf War were launched from the area, and U.S. officials say some regime officials have already fled the country through the shortest western route out of Baghdad. In addition, Syrian fighters have turned up on the Iraqi battlefield â one was found hiding in a Baghdad refrigerator on Wednesday â and other Arab fighters have crossed into Iraq via Syria to attack the U.S.-led coalition. Ah, yes. The storied 571st Heavy Refrigerator Battalion. A crack unit, indeed...
On Thursday, after Saddam Hussein's regime collapsed in Baghdad and the northern city of Kirkuk, it appeared some were returning the way they came: A correspondent for the al-Jazeera satellite television station at the Syrian-Iraq border said he had met Palestinian and Syrian volunteer fighters at the border who had abandoned their positions in Mosul and were returning home. The fighters said they left the northern city after their Iraqi commanders left them alone in the streets. "See you guys later. Call me if we win."
Air Force Maj. Gen. Gene Renuart, operations director at U.S. Central Command, said special forces were now in a position to monitor and ''control'' the flow of traffic into and out of Iraq through the al-Qaim crossing.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/10/2003 03:25 pm ||
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America had William 'the Refrigerator' Perry. Syria had Moud 'the Refrigerator' Adwain. One of these scored a touchdown in a superbowl. Trivia question: guess which one.
Twenty-one Iraqis were killed and one United States Marine was shot dead in separate firefights in Baghdad, only a day after invading US-led forces occupied the centre of the capital. Large numbers of non-Iraqi Arab fighters took to the streets resisting the US forces in several areas. The volunteer fighters were in control of several Baghdad streets in the Adhamiya district, where a mosque is located, and also in the nearby Waziriya district. Fighters said to be non-Iraqi Arabs were manning checkpoints and patrolling the area. They were also out in force on the streets of the Mansur district west of the Tigris river, close to the Iraqi intelligence service headquarters.
US planes swooped overhead, hitting targets in areas under Arab control. But the invading troops were nowhere to be seen in Mansur. There was also no sign of Iraqi forces. Abandoned Iraqi artillery pieces and missile launchers littered the streets. Arab fighters appeared to be putting up the main resistance to the 15,000 US troops in the city. Thousands of volunteers from across the Muslim world are reported to be in Iraq. Ahead of the war, an audio tape from al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden exhorted Muslims to fight US forces. Hope our guys are killing large numbers of these anuses...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/10/2003 02:56 pm ||
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#1
These "alien fighters" are more accurately called "terrorists." Keep trampling out the vintage, GI's.
E.F.L.
U.S. forces are advancing on the western Iraq city of Al Qaim where a major chemical weapons facility remains under the control of the regime of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. Western intelligence sources said the facility, located near the Jordanian and Syrian borders, is believed to be the largest production facility of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The facility was reconstructed after the 1991 Gulf war. Until today, the U.S.-led coalition has avoided capturing Al Qaim. The sources said Al Qaim remains protected by a large Iraqi Republican Guard and regular army force. The sources said regime officials heading for Syria probably have passed through the city. "In the west, special operations continued against regime forces in the town of Al Qaim," Maj. Gen. Eugene Renuart, director of operations at U.S. Central Command, said today. "And this is an area that is strategically located on the route that joins Syria and Iraq, and it also is an area that is potentially for use by the launch â for the launching of ballistic missiles." South of Al Qaim, U.S. special operations forces entered the strategic town of Al Rutbah near the Jordanian border. Al Rutbah is the gateway of the flow of people and material from Jordan to Baghdad. Earlier, U.S. Special Operations Forces took up positions near Al Qaim. I guess we don't control as much of the west as I thought. Let's get on this right away.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 02:35 pm ||
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IIUC we took the "scud box" early, then proceeded east towards baghdad. Al Qaim is on the Syrian border on the upper Euphrates, (ancient Palmyra?) really Northwest Iraq - its NE of the SCUD box, SW of Mosul.
Rick Leventhal reporting that a refrigerated truck was captured at a construction site, and looks like it is a bio-weapons lab. False walls, open bins and containers, pulley systems to lift materials out of the bins
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/10/2003 02:08 pm ||
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Clearly a false report, because Iraq does not have weapons of mass destruction. Must be a mobile baby formula factory.
#2
Watching it now. Truck made to look like support vehicle for SAM launcher. From outside looks perfectly normal. Inside false compartment are vats, coolers, heaters, and remote controlled pulleys to move stuff from tanks without being exposed. Just what you'd need to grow, er, bugs. Unless it was used to load bio material into something. Developing.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 14:21 Comments ||
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#3
We have not any of those false trucks making weapons bio. Lies, all filthy lies. There be no Fox reporter in Iraq, they gone, ALL GONE, we throw out the filthy media.
Posted by: Iraqi Information Minister ||
04/10/2003 14:21 Comments ||
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#4
They are discussing this on Fox, SAM systems were OK for Iraq to have, they are not WMD. Now you put together this mobile Bio lab/loader that is made to look like a SAM support truck with the SAM missiles that we found that had been modified to be used as Surface to Surface missiles. You get a Bio weapon delivery system that could have had inspectors standing right next to it and not be discovered. Very clever.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 14:27 Comments ||
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Posted by: sonic ||
04/10/2003 15:01 Comments ||
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#6
Iraqi Information Minister, you forgot the best part of your speech. The FOX filthy media types were not only thrown out, they were slaughtered first, butchered afterwards and thoroughly tortured in between. And you have to curse their moustache.
Posted by: Peter ||
04/10/2003 15:03 Comments ||
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#7
In a fake ABC broadcast, Peter Jennings will frown, suggest that this is the sort of thing the Iraqi government would eventually have shown to the inspectors, and then he'll present a story about how journalistic freedom may be compromised by the Coalition's refusal to match their actions to the coverage of Al Jazeera and the BBC.
#9
Yes, those we did not torture in ingenious ways commited suicide while pushing their fake cameras into the city, which is not in Iraq, by the way, because they are not in Iraq. Is that well understood ?
Where are my pills ?
Posted by: Peter ||
04/10/2003 15:58 Comments ||
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Informed sources from the Iraqi opposition told Albawaba that 30 portfolios in the planned interim government have already been endorsed. The government, to be led by the retired US general, Jay Garner, will include technocrats and will assume responsibility after the upcoming conference, scheduled next week in the Iraqi city of al Nasiriyah, is held.
Additionally, the sources told Albawaba the names of some of the new ministers. According to the opposition, Brigadier General Tawfiq al Yaseri, who led the 1991 uprising against the toppled Iraqi president, Saddam Hussein, secretary general of the Iraqi National Coalition and spokesman for the Military Council, will be appointed as minister of interior. The Iraqi National Coalition, the sources said, would take over 16 portfolios.
General Abdel Emir al Sabah will be minister of defense while Dr. Mohammed al Jabbar will be Minster of information, the sources conveyed, adding that Dr. Adel al Sheikhali will be minister of works and housing.
Having a "minister of information" doesn't seem like a good idea...
Meanwhile, the Iraqi opposition sources confirmed that the name of Ahmed al Chalabi, leader of the Iraqi National Congress was not on the list. The power behind him in the Pentagon deserted him, the sources said. The US has chosen 40 Iraqi politicians from the opposition inside and outside Iraq to participate in the conference to be held next week. The conference is said to discuss the political future of the country and perhaps will be delayed for several days, should the security situation be unfavorable, sources added.
Earlier, the leader of the Iraqi National Congress accused the US of laxity in bolstering security and alleviating human suffering in south Iraq. In an interview with CNN, Chalabi asked why Garner, who will run Iraq, has not begun restoring security, water and electricity in Iraq.
Maybe he doesn't have any resources to do it with yet. Why hasn't Chalabi done it? Or the Iraqi National Congress?
For its part, the Higher Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq led by Ayatollah Mohammed Baqer al Hakim said it would boycott al Nasiriyyah meeting due to the American presence in the city. An official from the Council told Albawaba that his group would not participate in a cabinet led by an American and that they would never be part of an American project.
They much prefer being irrelevant or, at the most, thorns in the side of the gummint.
#2
Chalabi is either trying to demonstrate he's not an American stooge or he's just proving that the State and CIA people who never trusted him are right.
The United States and some of its allies found 1.2 billion dollars of the fortune of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, a news report said on Thursday. The Wall Street Journal reported that the allies confiscated currency, property and diamonds held in the name of entities controlled by Saddam. The money might be used to help reconstruct Iraq. The U.S. seized last month 1.74 billion dollars in Iraqi government accounts and 600 million dollars in frozen assets. Every little bit helps.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 01:36 pm ||
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ouch! that was for safe passage thru Syria to Libya...now Sammy will have just his perky personality and good humor to bargain with
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/10/2003 13:45 Comments ||
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The US knows names of 43 members of the Iraqi opposition, including 14 political exiles, who will meet to outline a future make-up of Iraq, said Ahmad Chalabi, leader of the Baghdad-opposed Iraqi National Congress. Chalabi, just back to Iraq after many years in exile, said the 'constituent assembly' would be convened on Saturday at the Ali ibn Abu Talib (AS) military base near An Nasiriyah. The vanguard of the Shiite opposition to Baghdad, the Supreme Council of the Iraqi Revolution, has declared a boycott on the gathering. "If I can't be in charge, I ain't playin'!"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/10/2003 12:59 pm ||
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On the one hand, I'm really, really glad we got rid of Hussein. On the other hand, the Shiites are, and will always be, with all due respect to the Islamic world entire, completely batshit.
#2
Maybe in Iraq many Shia are nutzoid even if many are on our side. However, in Iran, many Shia are trying to reign in the nutzoids (who admittedly are also Shia).
FOXNEWS reporting possible find of weapons grade plutonium in Iraq by the US marines south of Baghdad. Smoking gun?
More...
U.S. officials are investigating a massive underground nuclear facility that was discovered below the Al Tuwaitha complex of the Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission in a suburban town south of Baghdad. Marine nuclear and intelligence experts have far found 14 buildings that have high levels of radiation, an embedded reporter from the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reported Thursday, noting that some of the tests have found nuclear residue too deadly for human occupation. The Marine radiation detectors go "off the charts" a few hundred meters outside the nuclear compound, where locals say "missile water" is stored in enormous caverns, the correspondent, Carl Prine, reported. Prine is embedded with the U.S. 1st Marine Division.
This underground discovery could still test to be perfectly legitimate and offer no proof of chemical, biological or nuclear weapons. The CIA encouraged international inspectors in the fall of 2002 to probe Al Tuwaitha for weapons of mass destruction, and the inspectors came away empty handed. "They went through that site multiple times, but did they go underground? I never heard anything about that," physicist David Albright, a former IAEA Action Team inspector in Iraq from 1992 to 1997, told the Tribune-Review. "The Marines should be particularly careful because of those high readings," he told the paper. "Three hours at levels like that and people begin to vomit. That leads me to wonder, if the readings are accurate, whether radioactive material was deliberately left there to expose people to dangerous levels. You couldn't do scientific work in levels like that. You would die."
Capt. John Seegar, a combat engineer commander from Houston, is currently running the operation in Al Tuwaitha. "I've never seen anything like it, ever," he told the Tribune-Review. "How did the world miss all of this? Why couldn't they see what was happening here?"
There's lots of people who would like to know the answer to that question. But The Inspections Are Working®...
Posted by: sonic ||
04/10/2003 12:42 pm ||
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Posted by: sonic ||
04/10/2003 13:33 Comments ||
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#3
From sonic's link: "The IAEA probed the Al-Tuwaitha site 12 times over the last four months ...IAEA investigators said they would be 'surprised, but not necessarily shocked' if Coalition scientists uncovered illegal atomic weapons production at Al-Tuwaitha."
So much for the IAEA inspections. F@#king weasels.
Posted by: Tom ||
04/10/2003 14:08 Comments ||
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#4
After touring the facility, Geraldo Rivera said, "This place even more intigueing than Al Capones Vault."
Posted by: Mike N. ||
04/10/2003 14:55 Comments ||
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#5
Perhaps the Iraqis in the last few weeks tried to rush making a nuclear weapon, leading to the current high levels of radioactivity.
I know that if I were Saddam I would have been bashing some heads together to obtain nuclear weapons.
Bashing some heads together ... that's an unfortunate phrase.
Posted by: A ||
04/10/2003 16:40 Comments ||
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#6
Plutonium is created by neutron bombardment of Uranium inside a reactor. The Pu is later chemically separated, leaving behind lots of irradiated U and fission byproducts, generally highly radioactive.
Plutonium itself, while extremely poisonous, isn't all that radioactive.
#7
you cant rush to making Plutonium. building the facility to make it (or highly enriched Uranium) takes awhile - they were supposed to be at least a year away, and facility would have to be big and probably unhideable - so theyve been doing this for awhile, and have done amazing things undergeound (unless they bought it on the black market?????)
This is VERY big if true - bigger than chem or bio finds - so I will wait patiently for confirmation.
A number residents of the southern cities of Iraq told IRNA correspondent in Zubair they will never yield to the rulership of an American military commander. They say they want an Arab from Iraq to rule in Baghdad, and will not yield to the leadership on any imposed ruler, particularly if it is a military officer, such as the retired US General Jay Garner. "No! Never would we tamely submit! You have seen the way we resisted Saddam Hussein for 30 years...!"
A Zubair resident told IRNA: "furthermore, although such personalities as Mr. (Mohammad Baqer) Hakim and Mr. Ahmad Chalabi are respectable figures for us, the Iraqi people are not agreed with permitting them to take lead of the country's affairs, let alone an American retired general!" He emphasized, "the people are particularly opposed to the leadership of those Iraqi dissidents who have lived a major part of their lives in the West." "We prefer people who stayed in Iraq and sniffed Saddam's shoulders!"
A Basra resident, Abdul-Qadir Qassemi, said, "we Iraqis are ourselves quite capable of taking lead of our country's affairs, and if the Americans were truthful in naming their operation 'Liberation of Iraq' they should leave us free to choose our next dictator leader ourselves." Oh. Well. Okay. I guess we should just go home, then...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/10/2003 12:43 pm ||
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These idiots still must not realize we're going to do something for them that Saddam never did, feed them and protect their rights. Kinda takes the steam out of your a-typical suicide bomber.
Posted by: g wiz ||
04/10/2003 12:49 Comments ||
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Lets be realistic - not EVERYONE there likes us.
My impression from the recent news, is as follows
probably around 98% of the kurds welcome us. Probably 80-90% of the population of the south welcome us. Probably 60-75% of the population of Baghdad welcome us.
Only a minority of those who dont welcome us are actively pro-Baath - rest are glad theyre gone, but were rather we hadnt done it. Of the large majority who do welcome us, many are still not likely to accept just anyone we suggest for leadership.
We have a considerable reservoir of good will, likely to increase as humanitarian aid flows in. However we will have to be careful and smart to keep it. I believe we can be.
#4
Ptah - exactly! IRNA = offical mouthpiece of Iran. Watch and you'll see that they'll foment grumbling and selected public statements that the shiites are chafing under the Merkins and their Kurd puppets, and want a pro-Iranian autonomous state (possibly asking to be annexed). Even more reason to encourage the mullahs to be overthrown....
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/10/2003 13:27 Comments ||
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Zubair seems to be a Baath bulwark. The obnoxious reporter from the Dutch-speaking Belgian state television keeps going there to shoot footage of angry (and ugly) freakazoids declaring their love for Saddam (yuk). IIRC, it's also the place where Al Quada nutters were signalled.
Posted by: Peter ||
04/10/2003 15:00 Comments ||
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Four US marines have been seriously wounded in an apparent suicide bomb attack on a military checkpoint in Baghdad. The BBC's Paul Wood in Baghdad said that he heard a series of loud explosions not far from the Hotel Palestine in central Baghdad, where the majority of the foreign press in the city is based. US marines who said they witnessed the incident told our correspondent that an Iraqi man had approached the checkpoint and detonated a number of grenades. Smoke can now be seen rising from the scene of the incident. Bastards.
#1
In all-too-real news today, a suicidal Arab bore deafening testimony to the underlying insanity upon which the Arabic/Islamic world, once the brightest and most progressive civilization in the world, now sits and disintegrates.
#2
I wrote this to someone else, but I think, with little qualification, it applies here:
"I have to wonder how many of us actually understand just how wonderful a thing it is that in a world where all nations can produce men willing to pick up a gun and fight and die, it is only todayâs democracies that have produced men willing to die for another nationâs liberation instead of its subjugation.
Our American soldier says, âI will die for anyone in the world who wants to enjoy the same freedoms I have, and I will not expect the people I have died for to embrace my beliefs, even though I hold them to be self-evident.â
Our American protestor says, âI will not die for you, but I will expect you to embrace my idealistic world-view even as Iâm actively working to deny you the freedoms and comforts I take for granted. â
The chasm between them is unbridgeable for it is the same chasm that separates a true democracy from a true tyranny, and I finally realize how much more brave is the rifle-bearing soldier who risks potential death in Baghdad than the protestor who disrupts traffic in San Francisco knowing that while a thump on the noggin and pepper spray is a sure thing, it is the worst he will have to endure for his âbravery.â"
That being said, I have come to believe - where once I did not - that in fact suicide bombers are less brave than the soldiers who, though willing to die if need be, prefer life to death, prefer meeting the consequences of our actions to running away from them. And maybe, just maybe, it is only today's democracies who can produce men who believe that while any arrogant bastard can strap on a bomb and leave the mopping up to his comrades, it takes a very real humility to stick around and fix the things he was obliged to break.
#3
We'll fix what we break. Would any other nation?
That was great, FormerLiberal. May I excerpt this and post it, with you as a guest lecturer (for the citation), at my website? (YOu don't post your e-mail, so I have to ask here.)
Well, I'm gratified you liked what I wrote. Feel free to excerpt and quote at will.
Let me say that while I appluad what we are doing in Iraq, I do so while also realizing that our own national history is as hardly spotless - "manifest destiny" and the effect of that doctrine on native Americans comes immediately to mind, but any student of history can come up with many more examples of American nastiness at home and abroad. BUT, where I differ from the critics of American history is that I refuse to believe that the immoral actions of our past somehow compromise the efficacy of the moral actions we are undertaking at present. I think we as nation can do more and that we should do more, and we should not feel the least bit embarrased if our motivations rest on the words "moral," "right," and "just."
This is an eyebrow raiser from www.strategypage.com
Basra is more of a problem, as Saddam's security forces always leaned extra hard on any anti-Saddam elements in the city. No group has come forward to organize a local government and police force. The British, with the help of some Spanish Marines, are starting to restore order. Anybody able to confirm this? Or has this known and I somehow just missed it?
Posted by: Patrick Phillips ||
04/10/2003 12:01 pm ||
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From April 9 CENTCOM brief: We expect some time later today the arrival of a Spanish field hospital from the Spanish ship Gallacia (sp), which is inbound to Umm Qasr, and that will also significantly increase the medical support that's available in southern Iraq.
The Spanish Navy has been offshore helping guard the shipping lanes, remember they seized the Scud shipment. Where you have Navy, you have Marines. Now that the major fighting is over, I imagine that the Spanish are helping with relief operations and the marines are there to assist.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 12:51 Comments ||
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Turkey is sending military observers to Kirkuk following an Iraqi Kurdish move into the city, Turkey's foreign minister said Thursday. Turkey has repeatedly said that it will not accept Iraqi Kurdish control of Kirkuk. Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul said he spoke with US Secretary of State Colin Powell Thursday and Powell offered to let Turkey send military observers to Kirkuk to make sure that Iraqi Kurdish fighters withdraw from the city. "We've been forced to accept accepted this," Gul said.
Turkey has had several thousand troops in northern Iraq for the past few years fighting Turkish Kurdish rebels who have bases in northern Iraq not far from the Turkish border. Gul said Powell assured Turkey that Iraqi Kurds would not keep control of Kirkuk. Turkey has in the past threatened to send its own forces into northern Iraq to prevent Kurdish control of Kirkuk. Washington has told Turkish officials that the capture of Kirkuk would be coordinated with coalition forces. "We have reminded them of their guarantee," Gul told reporters. "We have told them that we are willing to kill them all contribute if they haven't got enough forces. They have said that they are sending new forces within a few hours and that Kurds will be withdrawn."
"There is no reason for any concerns with these assurances," Gul said, adding that the head of Turkey's military, Gen. Hilmi Ozkok, would speak later in the day with Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff. Turkey fears Iraqi Kurdish control of the resource rich area could encourage the creation of an independent Kurdish state in northern Iraq. Turkey says an Iraqi Kurdish state could serve as an inspiration for Turkish Kurdish rebels who fought for 15 years in southeastern Turkey. Turkey's leaders have in the past indicated Turkey would deploy troops in northern Iraq if there were signs of a refugee crisis or if there were signs Iraqi Kurds were moving toward statehood. If there were any signs, portents or indications of any kind that the Iraqi Kurds were behaving like independent adults instead of chastened, humbled peons
"We are following events very closely and they are aware of that," Gul said. The United States fears any Turkish incursion could lead to clashes between Iraqi Kurds and Turkey and even friendly fire incidents between the United States and Turkey. ⊠Hmph. Afraid your own Kurdish population will get ideas?
Posted by: Tadderly ||
04/10/2003 10:25 am ||
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"even friendly fire incidents between the United States and Turkey."
You only have friendly fire incidents with allies.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 10:42 Comments ||
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Pretty presumptuous of Turkey to think they have that big of say in what's transpiring after they spent all that time screwing themselves and us. I say we reach agreement with the new Iraqi gov't and move our Turkey bases on over
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/10/2003 10:44 Comments ||
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#3
As much as I'm hardly a fan of the Turks right now (and Murat's repeated idiocy certainly makes it difficult to defend them), they did lose over 30,000 people during the last time the Kurds (in this case, the Marxist PKK) tried to try for statehood. They have every right to be concerned about Kurdish ambitions for statehood given what they had to suffer through during the 1990s in terms of suicide bombings, just as the Israelis have every right to be concerned about Palestinian ambitions towards statehood.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/10/2003 10:48 Comments ||
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#4
Dan, yes the The Turks did lose over 30,000 dead but the did it to them selves. When you denie the rights of a people you set youself up. The Turks denied these people the basic right of humnaity, they even tried to destroy their language.
Posted by: Dan ||
04/10/2003 10:58 Comments ||
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#5
One trusts that these "observers" will be few in number and carefully escorted.
#7
The Kurds have gained significant rights in Turkey ever since the PKK insurgency in an effort to stave off a resurrection of the group. That doesn't excuse any of what the PKK did, anymore than the US treatment of blacks excuses any actions past or present of Farrakhan and his outfit.
As far as claims of cultural genocide go, one might consider that this could also be made against the US in our insistence that Hispanic immigrants learn to speak proper English. The bottom line is that it wouldn't excuse those Aztlan folks from launching a violent insurgency here in the US.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/10/2003 12:32 Comments ||
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#8
DID the Kurds use suicide bombers? My understanding is that they engaged in terrorism, but didn't go that far.
If they did use suicide bombers, then kudos to them for having enough sense to stop doing it and accept reasonable compromise. I wonder if the Paleostinians will learn the lesson?
#9
The problem with Kurdish statehood is this "independent" business.
What if we:
Accept their application for statehood,
Sew another star on Old Glory,
Establish an Army base as their first token taste of Federal pork (probably needs a new slang term, come to think of it)?
Join OPEC and push for a price increase?
The Kurds have always been tough but reasonable people and might compare favorably to some folks under the Stars and Stripes today...
I know, I know... this would really piss off the Arab world AND our Turkish allies and make them hateful and uncooperative.
What on earth was I thinking?
Posted by: Mark IV ||
04/10/2003 14:46 Comments ||
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#10
Iraqi Kurdish leader Jalal Talabani said on Thursday he had ordered his "peshmerga" fighters to pull out of the city of Kirkuk by Friday, easing Turkish concerns about the oil hub's future. "I have ordered all the peshmerga to leave the city by tomorrow morning," Talabani, head of one of two main Iraqi Kurdish factions, told the CNN Turk television channel by telephone.Talabani said his forces were cooperating with the United States and would hand over control of Kirkuk to U.S. forces that the Pentagon said began arriving on Thursday evening.
Sounds like the Kurdish fighters will be replaced by US troops and Kurdish residents will stay.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 15:17 Comments ||
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#11
they did lose over 30,000 people during the last time the Kurds
Perverse use of data. 29,000 Kurds, almost all civilians were killed and Turky lost 12,000 soldiers. Might as well say the Nazis were sensative about the millions of Germans gassed in World War two...which the germans gassed.
(in this case, the Marxist PKK) tried to try for statehood.
The Marxist PKK was a tiny part of the fighting. And the Kurds whol lived there for 2000 years before th Turks were told that spaeking Kurdis in their homes was casue for arrest. You are being an aoplogist for one of the biggest ethnic cleanisngs in hisotry. You can subsitute Serbs for Turks only the Serbs never killed any where near as many people.
given what they had to suffer through during the 1990s The Kurds were the ones suffering
suicide bombings, just as the Israelis have every
Please give a sitation of a suicde bombing against a civilian target, or a suicide bombing at all.
You are denying one of the biggest episodes of ethnic cleansing in this century
BISMIL, Turkey, April 7 â It was not drugs, brawls or the usual teenage recklessness that landed Bayram A. in trouble, confronting him with the prospect of as many as five years in prison.
It was a word. But by uttering it, when and where he did, Bayram tapped directly into some of Turkey's darkest anxieties.
On a school day last November, his teachers in this remote, poor, densely Kurdish area of southeastern Turkey asked him to lead his classmates in the customary Turkish pledge of allegiance, which includes the line, "Happy is the one who calls himself a Turk."
Bayram, then 15, balked.
"I have a stomachache," he recalls telling the teachers. "I don't feel good."
They insisted that he press ahead. So he did, and what they heard him say was this: "Happy is the one who calls himself a Kurd."
The teachers not only sent him home from school for the day, but also summoned the police.
Bayram now stands accused of "inciting hatred and enmity on the basis of religion, race, language or regional differences," according to the indictment filed against him in State Security Court in Diyarbakir, about 30 miles west of here.
...
The US policy of "English Only" is an effort to force immigrants to adopt English so that they can fully participate in our democracy (and NOT extinguish their language and culture - the fact that it does occur is a natural part of the linguistic phenomenon : language death) The US govt makes NO claim to the right of denying any person of their culture and/or language. The Turks, on the other hand, actively sought to extinguish Kurdish identity, with one measure being the banning of Kurdish language...
A more accurate analogy to US policy would be its treatment of Native Americans in the late 17 - early 1900's. The US govt DID, in that case try to (and, unfortunately, to a large extent was successful) squeeze out the Native cultures. We have learned from our mistakes, and now realize that all cultures are valuable and have something to contribute to our society - as ours has things of value to theirs...
Mark, you're a genius... Pass that idea on to the state department please, and while you're at it, let them put out a general announcement throughout the world, allowing any properly certified group to petition for statehood... We'd have 100 stars in a week.... on second thought, maybe that isn't such a great idea... :-(
Steve W.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 20:13 Comments ||
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Senior Iraqi Sh'ite leader Abdul Majid al-Khoei was assassinated at the mosque in the holy city of Najaf on Thursday, a member of his family foundation told Reuters. Ali Jabr, a member of the London-based Khoei foundation, confirmed to Reuters by phone that Abdel Majid was dead. The murder is sure to raise tensions among Iraq's majority Shi'ite population. Just what we need, more tension
Majid is the son of the late Grand Ayatollah al-Khoei, spiritual leader of Iraq's Shi'ites at the time of the 1991 Gulf War. Al-Khoei's nephew, Jawad al-Khoei, told Reuters from the Iranian holy city of Qom that Abdul Majid was stabbed to death at the Imam Ali Mosque in Najaf, one of the holiest shrines for Shi'ite Muslims. "An hour ago we talked to the persons who were with him at the time of the incident. They said he was martyred by treacherous hands," Jawad al-Khoei said. Some of Sammy's boys, or maybe just one of your local islamic turf wars? Whatever it was it ain't good news.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 10:03 am ||
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Should be under Iraq section, sorry.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 10:07 Comments ||
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Update: A crowd rushed two Islamic clerics and hacked them to death in this holy city Thursday, witnesses said. An unknown number of people were injured. "People attacked and killed both of them inside the mosque," said Ali Assayid Haider, a mullah who traveled from the southern city of Basra for the meeting. Reuters reported that senior Iraqi Shiite leader Abdul Majid al Khoei was assassinated at the mosque. The killings took place at the shrine of Imam Ali, one of the holiest sites of Shiite Islam, practiced by the majority of Iraqis.Witnesses told reporters visiting the mosque that a meeting was held at 10 a.m. among leading mullahs about how to control the shrine, which has been under the supervision of Haider al Kadar, who was widely disliked because of his role as a member of President Saddam Hussein's Ministry of Religion. In a gesture of reconciliation, al Kadar was accompanied to the shrine by al Khoei, son of one of the religion's most prominent ayatollas who was executed by Saddam in 1982.
OK, now that clears things up. Haider al Kadar was one of Sammy's puppets, the people took their revenge, and Majid al Khoei either got in the way or was killed by one of Kader's supporters.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 10:21 Comments ||
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#3
latest on Fox said he was hacked to death by a mob inside the Ali mosque.....street justice?
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/10/2003 10:21 Comments ||
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#4
Damn Steve! Seven seconds quicker and whole lot more info!
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/10/2003 10:25 Comments ||
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#5
It'll probably be awhile before we find out exactly what happened here, and why, but I can't say I didn't expect it. We're going to see a lot of this over the next few days - those that "cooperated" with Saddam and his regime are going to answer to the people they held in bondage and tortured for 35 years. Unfortunately, there may be a few innocent victims included, but I think the number will be small, considering the crimes that need to be repaid.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/10/2003 11:30 Comments ||
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#6
More details: Witnesses told reporters that a meeting was being held among leading mullahs about how to control the shrine, which had been under the control of the hated Haider al-Kadar, of Saddam's Ministry of religion. In a gesture of reconciliation, al-Kadar was accompanied to the shrine by Abdul Majid al-Khoei, a high-ranking Shiite cleric and son of one of the religion's most prominent ayatollahs, or spiritual leaders. He had just returned a week ago from exile in London to help restore order after the city was liberated by U.S. troops. When the two men appeared at the shrine, members of another faction loyal to a different mullah, Mohammed Baqer al-Sadr, verbally assailed al-Kadar.
"Al-Kadar was an animal," said Adil Adnan al-Moussawi, 25, who witnessed the confrontation.
Apparently feeling threatened, al-Khoei pulled a gun and fired one or two shots. There were conflicting accounts over whether he fired the bullets into the air, or in the crowd. Both men were then rushed by the crowd and hacked to death with swords and knives, the witnesses said.
Al-Khoei was among the prominent returned exiles. Arriving in Najaf April 3, he said local clerics were attempting to negotiate a deal whereby Iraqi loyalists would leave the mosque in return for safe passage out of the city. His father, Ayatollah Abul-Qassim al-Khoei, was the revered Shiite spiritual leader at the time of the 1991 Shiite uprising crushed by Saddam. He died in 1993, two years after he was forced to meet Saddam to prove loyalty. The meeting was televised by Iraqi TV in a gesture to humiliate the Shiites. Al-Khoei told The Associated Press recently that he has urged his followers in the Shiite cities to stay at home and let the U.S. troops do their job. He said Saddam's tactics of urban warfare and the use of paramilitary militias made it highly risky for the population to revolt. A tearful Ghanem Jawad at the Khoei foundation in London confirmed that al-Khoei had been attacked, but didn't know if he'd been killed.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 11:51 Comments ||
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#7
And here is another spin on the story from the Arab News War Correspondent in Najaf, Iraq: Former Iraqi general Nizar Al-Khazaraji and Islamic scholar Majid Al-Khoiâi have both been executed by Iraqi residents of Najaf, according to five independent Iraqi witnesses to the incident who spoke to Arab News. The two potential Iraqi leaders of the city, who were supported by the US, âwere chopped into pieces with swords and knives inside the Ali Mosque this morning by Iraqis who accused them of being American stooges,â one of the witnesses said. Another said that a US Special Forces Soldier, who had been acting as their body guard, was also killed in the incident. Al-Khoi'i's death has since been confirmed by his family in London. However, there has been no independent confirmation of Al-Khazarji's death. Arab News War Correspondent Essam Al-Ghalib says from Najaf that he can confirm only that local Iraqis were talking about the death of Al-Khazarji, not that the man had actually been killed.
Not that they are biased or anything.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 13:52 Comments ||
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Witnesses told reporters that a meeting was being held among leading mullahs about how to control the shrine, which had been under the control of the hated Haider al-Kadar, of Saddam's Ministry of religion. In a gesture of reconciliation, al-Kadar was accompanied to the shrine by Abdul Majid al-Khoei, a high-ranking Shiite cleric and son of one of the religion's most prominent ayatollahs, or spiritual leaders. He had just returned a week ago from exile in London to help restore order after the city was liberated by U.S. troops.
Okay, seems as if al-Kadar was a bad egg that needed killin', but al-Khoei tried to be a peacemaker and got in the way. I'd blame his death on him spending all that time in London rubbing shoulders with the Kumbaya crowd.
Edited for length:
Marines in Baghdad were hunkering down for an expected tense night Thursday at the al-Azimiyah palace compound following fierce fighting earlier in the day against Iraqi soldiers and other gunmen. The fighting began before dawn as the 1st Battalion, 5th Marines, rolled down highways and streets in east Baghdad toward the 17-acre compound. One Marine was killed and 35 others were wounded in street battles against Iraqis firing automatic weapons and rocket-propelled grenades from bridges, roof tops, balconies and alleyways near the palace on the east bank of the Tigris River. The attackers appeared to be a mixed bag of forces -- men in army green, others wearing all black and some in civilian clothes. Marine intelligence sources told United Press International about a half dozen Syrians, Jordanians and Algerians had been detained Wednesday and were suspected of heading to Iraq to fight. Tag 'um and bag 'um.
The presidential palace, built for the former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, is an ornate two-story structure that had been badly damaged by coalition airstrikes and was deserted. But as the Marines entered the 17-acre compound they came under fire from Iraqi gunmen. As the Marines reached the palace, rocket propelled grenades began to rain down on their convoy. Three Marines were wounded when a grenade struck their armored vehicle, while they were firing at Iraqi forces. Another grenade struck the company's command vehicle but no one was injured.While the more seriously injured Marines were evacuated, Marines not seriously wounded rejoined the fight around the high-walled compound. "This is the lousiest birthday, I've ever had," said Capt. Shawn Basco, from Cleveland, an F-18 pilot attached to Bravo Company as a forward air controller. Captain Shawn Basco braved enemy fire throughout the day and coordinated miracle evacuation flights while carrying the wounded to a grassy area near the compound's river-side swimming pool. Only after the fighting died down did Basco notice the blood on his pants leg and the pain from a shrapnel wound. Basco was not evacuated. There is a citation for a medal if I ever heard one.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 09:36 am ||
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Makes you wonder why they fought so hard for a compound with a "badly damaged" palace, especially since Saddam had so many! I'd check the place out with a fine-tooth comb after the shooting's over.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/10/2003 11:43 Comments ||
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Turkey expressed alarm over the seizure of the northern Iraqi oil city of Kirkuk by Kurdish peshmerga fighters on Thursday, but said Washington had promised to order them out within hours. The Kurdish takeover created the risk of a confrontation with Turkish troops that could disrupt U.S. operations. But Ankara has said it is ready to risk U.S. fury by sending in its troops if it feels U.S.-backed Kurds might use the oil center's wealth to seek an independent state, rousing Turkey's own Kurds.
That's not something we want to see. But it's not something Turkey wants to do, either. Not at all...
The Iraqi Kurds, trying to calm Turkish fears, deny they plan to use the confusion of postwar Iraq to try to carve out a state based on the northern oilfields and said they want a federal Iraq within existing borders.
Post-war Iraq is going to have a federal-type government, and the Kurds are going to get their due. I think the U.S. has pretty much decided to look out for them, since they've been the faction that's been allied with us from the start. They might leave Kirkuk today, but next year they'll be back, and Turkey can go whistle.
Posted by: Anonymous ||
04/10/2003 09:39 am ||
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These Kurds have some nerve trying to prosper. What!!!! they have electricity, piped water and a free media. What next, education for all children. Turks won't be satisfied until the Kurds are sent back to the 9th century.
#2
Dear Turkeys: (Sorry, Murat, don't mean any personal insult, I'm referring to your government.)
Your standing to complain about anything the Kurds do south of the dotted line marking the Turkey-Iraq border expired when you voted not to let the 4th ID use Turkey as a staging area. Actions have consequences, you know.
Love,
Uncle Sam
P.S. -- About that aid package . . . maybe Mr. Chiraq can help you out. After all, you scratched his back, so he's obligated to scratch yours.
Posted by: Mike ||
04/10/2003 11:44 Comments ||
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Dear Turkey,
We lost interest in your opinions when you decided to haggle for more money in order to allow us to remove the regional problem on your border. You've seen what the American military can do, don't push us into carving Kurdistan out of SouthEast Turkey.
Edited for length:
Secret CIA and military teams in Iraq and surveillance devices set up to monitor Saddam Hussein's inner circle reported yesterday that nearly the entire Iraqi leadership had vanished. U.S. military commanders said they suspected that some leaders had headed to Hussein's hometown of Tikrit for a final bloody showdown and that others had fled to Syria. Dogged fighting by Iraqi forces at Qaim, near the Syrian border, has led some U.S. and British officials to suspect that Iraqi troops there may be protecting important Iraqi leaders or family members, although it was not clear who.
"Most of them" would probably cover it, though...
As Baghdad slipped from Hussein's control yesterday, covert CIA and Special Operations teams dedicated to killing or capturing the Iraqi president and senior leaders discovered that the Baath Party leaders, Republican Guard leaders, troops and high-level government officials they had targeted were not at their usual posts. Even the information minister, who had been briefing journalists with outlandish versions of daily events, did not go to work. "All of a sudden, all communications ceased and the regime didn't come to work," was the way one senior administration official described what happened in Baghdad. "Even the minders for [foreign] journalists did not go to work," he added. The most likely explanation for the sudden dropoff in detectable communications and activity among such a large number of key people, according to reports from analysts in the CIA's Iraq Operation Group at Langley and those working at the U.S. Central Command in Doha, Qatar, is that an order to disappear was given in Hussein's name, and that he is still alive. "RUN AWAY!!!!!!"
Either that, or Sammy was either in the building when it got boomed, or was greased in another operation that didn't get the attention. With Sammy dead, then it'd become every man for himself. Because of the timing and the abruptness of the turnaround, I think he's probably jam. The only other thing I could think of that would explain it would be total, blind panic on the part of the collective Iraqi leadership â "Omigawd! We're all gonna die! What'll we do?"
I also don't believe for a moment that our intel agencies aren't getting indications from chatter on whether or not Sammy's still alive â if it's a topic of major interest to us, it's a topic of vital interest to the Iraqi chain of command.
"There was no sign of any leaders, anywhere," a senior U.S. administration official said. Another less probable possibility, intelligence sources said, is that the Iraqi leader died in one of two U.S. air attacks that targeted Hussein â one March 20, the other April 8 â and that word of his death finally leaked out. Somebody(s) got wacked in those bombings, wonder how many?
If Hussein is alive, he and his loyalists may have sought refuge in Tikrit, a town about 90 miles north of Baghdad on the low bluffs overlooking the Tigris River. Some Iraq analysts, such as former CIA analyst Kenneth Pollack, said Hussein is highly conscious of how he will be perceived by history. Therefore, he would be unlikely to leave Iraq, and would probably prefer to make a last stand in Tikrit. Tikrit has been a special target of U.S. precision bombing, including what was described as a major underground bunker that Brooks called a command and control center. He said last week that U.S. Special Forces have set up checkpoints on the main roads between Baghdad and Tikrit to prevent movement between the two cities. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld raised the possibility that Iraqi leaders are fleeing to Syria. "Senior regime people are moving out of Iraq into Syria, and Syria is continuing to send things into Iraq," he said. "We find it notably unhelpful." Syria is trying real hard to take Iraq's former position in the Axis of Evil.
The most likely escape routes to Syria include Qaim and Mosul, where fighting also continues. At the same time, U.S. intelligence officials said allied forces continued to stop and turn around busloads of non-Iraqi fighters attempting to come into Iraq from Syria. Just bury them next to the road as a message
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 09:09 am ||
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#1
You mean they're not just taking out the buses with missle strikes? Damn! Turn them around for what?
Posted by: George ||
04/10/2003 9:45 Comments ||
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#2
If they are such fierce martyrdom-determined fighters, how are they being turned around without a fight? Pussies without jobs, educations, futures...
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/10/2003 10:20 Comments ||
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#3
Hope they're being "turned around" by an M1A2 with a canister round.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/10/2003 11:49 Comments ||
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Edited for length:
Mr John Howard, who committed 2,000 Australian forces to the war in Iraq, initially in the face of strong opposition at home, said Australia would work alongside the US and Britain as a partner in the coalition transitional authority. He stressed that the three states had no "territorial ambitions" in Iraq, saying that the aim was to return power to the Iraqi people. "Our aim is to return authority in Iraq to the Iraqi people in a way that they choose, in the form of an open and free government that they choose," he said at a press conference in Canberra following a meeting of his war cabinet. Australian officials are already working with the Kuwait-based Office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Affairs under retired US Army Lt. Gen. Jay Garner, the head of the interim administration. Canberra has said it expects to take responsibility for rebuilding Iraq's agriculture. Mr Howard said Canberra had "a very clear eye to Iraq's long-term future, but also to our own national interests in terms of peace and security and commercial interests". Thanks again, Australia
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 08:36 am ||
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#1
Howard has really impressed me with his backbone and straight tough talk in the face of quite a bit of opposition. Blair too....When Clinton was pres (the bad old days..) I thought Tony was a Clinton me-too. Glad I was wrong.
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/10/2003 8:53 Comments ||
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#3
Hmm, I wonder if his approval rating will go up in Oz now. I hope so. The guy had foresight, can't say that for the appeasement monkeys running against him. (They have an election soon, right?)
Posted by: g wiz ||
04/10/2003 10:45 Comments ||
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On-scene report from BBC:
In north-central Iraq, about 80 miles (130 kilometres) north of Baghdad, Kurdish troops are advancing quickly south. They have just taken the town of Tuzkhurmato, and another one called Jalula. These are smallish but significant places on the road which approaches the main Kirkuk-Baghdad highway. There is an Iraqi division next to the highway, and the fighting is still going on. The local Kurdish commander has said the Iraqis are putting up fierce resistance. He said they are fighting like devils, and he has not seen anything like it in 20 years.
The Iraqi soldiers have had months of propaganda telling them the Kurds will cut their throats if they are captured. They have been told to fight to the last because a terrible fate awaits them. When I have seen the Iraqi prisoners in Kurdish hands, they have actually been treated perfectly reasonably.
I think the Kurds have a certain amount of sympathy for them, and that increases as Saddam Hussein falls. But this news is not getting across. The assumption is that these Iraqi forces are cut off from any kind of communication with the rest of Iraq, and are terrified they will be slaughtered.
The Iraqi division is being hammered by B52s which are wheeling about in the sky. They are taking a severe hammering, but at the moment they are hanging on. It is likely that it is a regular Iraqi army division rather than the Republican Guard. The Kurdish troops are working with Americans in what are being called "packets". About 120 to 150 Kurdish troops are supported by 12 to 18 Americans from the Special Forces unit. This is essentially a Kurdish war with American air support. There are a few American ground troops, but not many.
We now think that the town of Kirkuk has fallen to combined Kurdish and American forces. We have been receiving calls from the Kurdish command in the city telling us what has happened. Kurdish Special Forces entered the city last night in disguise, picked up weapons, and started an uprising. Iraqi soldiers in Kirkuk have probably taken off their uniforms and disappeared. But Kirkuk is a mainly Kurdish city and they will be terrified of the locals. The Saddam regime has been extremely harsh with the people of Kirkuk. Over the last few weeks for instance, only one Kurd was allowed to leave a family home at a time.
So I imagine the Iraqis are feeling extremely vulnerable right now. The capture of Mosul, we think, will be more difficult. The Kurds and Americans think it will hang on until the very end. It is full of Arab nationalists — Sunnis who are anxious about the Kurds and Shias — and it is supported by a paramilitary force called the Jash. The Kurds would regard the Jash as quislings who have been policing their fellow Kurds on behalf of Saddam Hussein's regime. These are men that have nothing to gain by surrender. Mosul could get ugly.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 08:25 am ||
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#1
Kurdish Special Forces entered the city last night in disguise, picked up weapons, and started an uprising.
cle-VER! I don't think their special forces are as special as our special forces, but I AM impressed with their ingenuity...
Reports from the northern Iraqi city of Kirkuk say US-backed Kurdish troops have entered the city. Kurdish troops told a BBC correspondent there that they met some resistance, but were then greeted by crowds in the centre of the city. Our correspondent reported witnessing scenes of celebrations as she arrived in the important oil city. "I've just arrived in Kirkuk. I am surrounded by crowds of people. They're celebrating what appears to be the fall of Kirkuk," said Dumeetha Luthra who is travelling with US special forces. "I was told that it fell half an hour ago and that Kurdish soldiers are being greeted by people from Kirkuk."
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
04/10/2003 04:10 am ||
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Worried that if US troops head north into Turkey they will be greeted as liberators by 40% of the population of Turkey who have been oppressed and brutalized for generations.
Turkey blew its chance to be America's friend in this war. Now the Kurds are doing everything they can to be America's best and most trustworthy friend in the region.
The world has changed! You (Turkey) will have to live with it whether you like it or not.
What is it with Moslem society that their response to every problem is - why are you are conspiring against us!
It still amazes me that Turkey could mis-calculate so badly.
Posted by: Phil B ||
04/10/2003 5:11 Comments ||
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#5
It shows how wrong America was to trust"Fair-weather friend"Turkey.
Go whine to the French,Murat,at least the French people are starting to realize they screwed the pooch.
#6
Please lets not be too hard on the Turks. On their side they were allies for all the long years of the cold war. They were allies in the Gulf War (and not even their critics admit they were not made whole economically for that) and (even the Iraqi Kurds admit) some of the Turkish Kurds were real terrorists. Against this weighs their relative inability to date to fight internal corruption (I'm told they are giving it a good try now), their brutality in Cyprus, their oppression of the Turkish Kurd population and their failure to face up to the massacres of their Armenian population. In all, much better than most of the world.
#7
What's this talk about distrust? The Kurds aren't taking any Turkish territory,are they?You,Murat,sound like there was a deal between Turkey and USA to keep the Kurds from getting "an uppity-n****r syndrome" and demanding,God forbid,independence or something.
Soon they'll get weird ideas of being called "mister" instead of "hey you" and demand equal rights with the "master race" .What has the world come to when even the Kurds can't be kicked around anymore?
Posted by: El Id ||
04/10/2003 7:24 Comments ||
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#8
C'mon, Murat, cross that border now and say hi to the US Army. C'mon over! The 4ID is getting in a little late and would like some action. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to welcome our bait-and-switch Turkish friends.
Posted by: Dar ||
04/10/2003 8:13 Comments ||
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#9
Turkey is finished as an important ally of the US. It's nothing personal, they just don't matter that much anymore with the demise of the Soviet Union and Ba'athist Iraq.
#10
It would be unwise for us to give up on Turkey just yet. They are still strategically important to us vs. Syria and it would be preferable to finesse this situation than to get into a shooting war with a NATO ally, especially such a formidable one.
The Turks have some legit issues here. They have been victims of Kurdish terrorism, for instance. However, they badly misplayed the situation vs. Iraq and will now have to watch the Kurds benefit from their miscalculation. Hopefully the Kurds will help us orchestrate the occupation of the Kirkuk oil fields in such a way that the Turks are deprived of another opportunity to make a strategic blunder. It would be in the best interest of all parties concerned.
The Kurds are historically the persecuted and friendless people of the Middle East. Well now they have the most powerful nation in the world as their friends.
Turkey is afraid and justifiably so! As Iran and Syria should be also. If the Kurds now persuade their new best friends that the Kurds should be liberated then for the US it becomes a matter of principle!
I've just heared on CNN that Colin Powell has said that US forces will remove Kurdish forces from Kirkut. As much as I respect CP, this is dumb dumb! To date Kirkut is the only Iraqi city liberated by Iraqis. Using US forces to reverse this would be a PR disaster - justifiably so!
Posted by: Phil B ||
04/10/2003 9:25 Comments ||
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#12
latest reports
Turks "watching" the situation
US promises to send US forces in to occupy Kirkuk (173rd AB, or 1st ID?)
Peshmerga promise to leave soon(when the Yanks show up in force?)
Baathists in fighting retreat south toward Tikrit.
Situation should settle down soon.
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/10/2003 10:46 Comments ||
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#14
It shows only how right Turkey was to distrust the US and the words of Bush and Powell.
Posted by: Murat 4/10/2003 4:53:04 AM
Murat you are in a fantasy land. Turkey had it's chance but she wanted to pound her chest. Your leaders were given very bad advice, that the united states could not and would not take Iraq without Turkish support. So we relied more on the Kurds, and how wrong is this? These people have gotten the short end of the deal for a thousand years. Your just upset you cannot beat up on the Kurds of Northern Iraq anymore without coming into direct confrontation with the United States. And you know Turked did it to herself. Last year I would of never of thouhgt we would be abandoned by one of our best allies (past tense). And I also would of never of said this, LONG LIVE KURDISTAN!
Posted by: Dan ||
04/10/2003 10:53 Comments ||
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#15
Name of Turkish unlimited hydroplane racer:
Miss Calculate
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/10/2003 11:00 Comments ||
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#16
They are still strategically important to us vs. Syria and it would be preferable to finesse this situation than to get into a shooting war with a NATO ally, especially such a formidable one.
If they were an ally, yes they would be important. I, however, believe that the "bait and switch" with the Turks was a crafty plan to delay our attack and allow more time for Saddam and the Iraqis to at least kill some more Americans and teach us a lesson while appearing to "stand up" to the Great Satan. You can see the same thing going on with Jordan. They are "supporting" the US, but shipping armaments to Saddam's regime.
I am very cynical regarding Muslim nations--like Turkey--and their "support" for the US. Certainly, they are our ally when we are helping protect them, but when push comes to shove, the Turkish people--and therefore the Turkish government--will blindly trash their futures on a brutal dictator simply because he is Muslim and we are infidels.
The thing that really chaps my ass; after giving us a royal shafting, they will continue to whine about the hardship placed on them, and how they are entitled to American money.
The Kurds, regardless of what happened between them and the Turks, have chosen to help. That makes them an ally in this war.
Those that hinder us, by default, help our enemy.
Helping the enemy does not make you an ally.
#17
Turkey gave us overflight rights through their airspace. Later in the war they allowed us to move "non-lethal" supplies over the ground. They have agreed to stay out, as requested, so far.
They ARE a model of democracy for the Muslim world, and have been very helpful in afghanistan.
We will need them in the future, and while we perhaps dont need to reward them now, it would not be wise to alienate them either.
#18
It appears, murat, that circumstances forced the Kurds to move prematurely. If Turkey had agreed to what the US wanted, these would have been American soldiers instead.
I don't take lightly the breaking of a promise: I hope the Kurds cooperate and leave as US Soldiers arrive. The value of their keeping their word, at this point, is all they'll have going to for them for a while.
The Kurds are smart: they'll settle for a Federal solution with their boundaries drawn so that local leaders will be Kurds since they will have the support of a Kurdish majority. This'll be the best deal they've had in the past two millenia. It won't be all that much different from the English colonial governments in the New world that learned the art of self-governance
I don't think Murat, and Turkey, are worried about the Kurds failing in their quest for self-governance. I think, honestly, that they're worried that the Kurds will succeed. Unlike Arafat, they're willing to take half a loaf now, build their strength from that half a loaf, and go for more of the loaf later.
KUWAIT CITY - An Iraqi opposition leader urged the U.S.-led interim administration Wednesday to leave the Kuwait City hotel where it has been working on plans to run the country and move quickly into Iraq.
With an eye on taking power after a transition, several prominent Iraqis are planning a meeting of political factions in the southern city of Nasiriyah to lay the foundations of what could become a provisional government. The head of the interim administration, retired U.S. Gen. Jay Garner, will attend the meeting, due to be held sometime after Saturday, according to aides to Vice President Dick Cheney in Washington.
The rapid collapse of Saddam Hussein's regime was leaving Iraq with a power vacuum filled only the U.S. and British military.
Garner's interim administration plans to coordinate humanitarian assistance, rebuild infrastructure shattered by years of war and economic sanctions and start the process toward a democratic government. But concrete details of how he will assert his authority â and the future role of the Iraqi opposition â remain elusive.
Ahmad Chalabi, leader of the exile Iraqi National Congress, was mobbed Wednesday in Nasiriyah by thousands of people cheering the collapse of Saddam's government. This guy has 'klepto' written all over him.
Chalabi told CNN in a phone interview that Garner's group â which has been gradually moving out of the Hilton Resort in Kuwait City into southern Iraq â needed to get inside quickly and help restore law and order and bring humanitarian aid to suffering people.
"Where is General Garner now?" Chalabi said. "The U.S. troops have defeated Saddam militarily. That was never a problem. The issue is the Baath party and the remnants of the Baath party who will continue to pose a threat. And those people will continue to have some influence as long as there is no electricity, no security and no water."
In Washington, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Garner's whereabouts were unimportant and that his team was working on rebuilding the country, helping to bring in aid and restore electricity in the southern province of Basra. "The United States is not going to stay in that country and occupy it," Rumsfeld said.
Chalabi's Iraqi National Congress said the Nasiriyah meeting was intended to build a wider following for a roadmap drawn up last month in northern Iraq by several groups. The challenge for the exiles is to build power bases as soon as possible before local leaders already inside the country emerge. Already, British forces in Basra have selected a local tribal leader to form a committee representing local interests. There goes one post.
It was not clear what members of the fractured opposition would be there. Salah al-Sheikly, a London-based member of the U.S.-backed Iraqi National Accord, said representatives of his group would attend. Other guests would include "tribal leaders, religious clerics and Iraqi dignitaries who were not involved" in Saddam's regime, he said. How about a few who survived prison?
Chalabi's group said earlier the Nasiriyah meeting would be held Saturday, but Cheney's aides said it would happen sometime after that, with the exact date to be determined according to events.
Chalabi has been at the U.S.-controlled Tallil Air Base near Nasiriyah for the past three days. He and other exile leaders supported by the Pentagon have gradually been brought into the country and will clearly form part of what is expected to become a U.S.-picked consultative body of Iraqis that will advise the Americans on running the country.
The roadmap that was decided last month calls for a provisional government that would work with the coalition military forces, negotiate their eventual withdrawal and eventually be replaced by a permanent government chosen by democratic elections.
Officials in Chalabi's group, however, suggested Wednesday that the idea of an immediate provisional government had been overtaken by the U.S.-proposed consultative group.
Voices within the exiled Iraqi opposition have called in recent weeks for having Iraq administered by the United Nations, a stance pushed by France, Germany and Russia, which opposed the war. Wonder who put them up to that?
Faisal Chalabi, Chalabi's nephew and spokesman in Kuwait City, said the U.N. role should be limited to providing aid and technical expertise. Several Security Council countries had "vested interests" in the fallen Baath regime, he said. Faisal's on his game at least.
Ahmed al-Haboubi, a former minister in the government toppled by the Baath Party's 1968 coup, said celebrations like those seen in Baghdad on Wednesday should wait until a democratic government is elected to replace Saddam's regime.
Al-Haboubi, who was elected Tuesday to the leadership of a new Iraqi opposition group, and many liberal-minded Iraqi exiles say they share a common worry: that their long struggle against Saddam will be in vain if his regime is replaced by opportunists who would only do America's bidding. Everyone wants a piece of the pie.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/10/2003 01:16 am ||
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#1
I haven't been keeping up with the skinny on Chalabi, so perhaps someone here can answer--why haven't we found someone other than a felon/scam artist to head up Iraq? What's so compelling about Chalabi that he can't be replaced by someone with a clean record?
Posted by: Bent Pyramid ||
04/10/2003 6:24 Comments ||
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#2
[Likely Saddam successor has controversial past]
I already don't like this guy. I think that nice doctor who helped save Private Lynch should be given the job. That guy is educated, moderate, has lived in Iraq through the Saddam era and survived, risked his life to save a foreigner, bla, bla, bla; you get what I'm saying. He's everything that Chalabi isn't. There are a lot of good people inside Iraq who aren't infected with baathism and are quite capable of doing the job.
#3
Chalabi was convicted of fraud in Jordan but nobody in the US knows whether or not the conviction was bogus. The man's father was on the board of directors of one of the big pre Baath corporations (as were Sunnis, Shia, Jews and Christians by the way). He could be living comfortably in the US if he wanted to rather than going back to the uncertainty of the old country. On the downside, I'm told he can get arrogant, he has enemies, he makes misjudgements.
#4
Have you ever gone to buy a car and the salesman forces you to make a snap decision because the super great deal he's offering is only available today. This is how I feel about Mr. Chalabi. The fact that Mr. Chalabi wants 'fast Interim setup' so badly makes me nervous...
#5
What's with the snide "Where is General Garner now?" crap, too? Sounds like this guy is just ready to bite the hand that's been feeding him. Maybe we need to fill that hand with a rolled-up newspaper and send him back to obedience school.
Posted by: Dar ||
04/10/2003 8:16 Comments ||
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#6
If there's one thing we DON'T need, it's to unwittingly sow the seeds of future problems.
It is soo so important to get it right even at interim government stage.
Start as you mean to continue. Make it clean with nice clear rules and keep the US military there to establish civil order/conventions/constitution even.
#7
The negative PR campaign against Chalabi appears to be orchestrated by State and its "friends" (that is, the Arab elites, particularly in Soddiland)... Pardon me if I don't believe a word they say.
#8
Chalabi wants to set something up before State and the UN freeze him out, I think. See Hoaglands piece on Chalabi in the WaPo. He is Shiite (the Saudis and their pals dont like that) he is a friend to DoD (Saudis, State, CIA, dont like that). Yeah hes not an experienced administrator (was Karzai?) yeah some people in Iraq dont like him (thats the nature of politics, you make enemies) and some have challenged his integrity (though many of them have agendas) Lets not let the guy set himself up as big boss, but lets give him the chance to place himself and his organization before Iraqis and take a role in rebuilding. Lets see how he does. He seems at least as deserving of a "vital role" as the UN.
I agree Chalabi should have an opportunity to earn the trust of the Iraqi people.
I also think that Hoagland is on point more often than just about any other pundit...which tells me that there are a lot of envious bastards out there trying to bring Chalibi low. Indeed, that is politics.
#10
Yes Chalabi has made enemies at State and CIA. Ditto in Jordan re his bank, but it all could have been a set-up by Hussein (former king, I mean) People should read interesting articles about Chalabi in, I believe, New Yorker or Vanity Fair (or both) from early 2002 for more info.
Posted by: Michael ||
04/10/2003 13:44 Comments ||
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#11
The US should set up a system very similar to post-war Federal Republic of Germany. We've got very indendent states getting along in a Federal structure and you've got Chancelors (power) and a President (figurehead) and a multi-party parliament (gridlock but everyones got a voice). Let Chalabi be the President for the first two years or so while the ex-General takes the Chancelor position and makes the real decisions. Makes sure the Chancelor has veto power over the Parliament, at least until the year or so before the country is ready and the position goes up for election and the Yanks settle down into just having a base or two in the region.
Another solid benifit of the German system is that it was open-ended regarding the states. East Germany was able to link up easily enough. The same system could allow a quick addition of Syria if they don't learn to keep their heads down.
#12
Get lots of reasonable folks together and let them hash it out. Supply reference materials - US Constitution, Magna Carta, Federalist Papers, etc, etc. Hell, throw in Marx and "Engles" (heh) too, what the hell. And I'd personally buy them lots of arabic translations of RA Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress"...
#13
Chalabi has been actively seeking the end of Saddam's regime for a VERY long time - first from within the Kurdish held area, then from exile. He was involved in a failed coup attempt in 1995, which also involved several high ranking members of the Iraqi military. The attempt was largely botched by interference from Masud Barzani of the KDP (who has been accused of being far too concerned with his own clan as opposed to the welfare of Iraqi Kurdistan). It has been suggested that Barzani was involved in the back-door sale of oil to the Turks under trade sanctions, and did not want to upset the status quo by bringing Saddam down (whether or not he had killed thousands of Barzani's people).
Chalabi tried to win US support for the uprising, but our government was of course too busy making sure Bill was not seen getting his jollies on with interns to throw some support behind the Kurds and get rid of Saddam in 95... pity - it could have been done from within -- 7 or 8 years ago...
Don't count Chalabi out - even if the US govt doesn't want him involved - the man is a survivor and definitely has vision -- and I don't get the impression he wants to strongarm or hoodwink anyone... I think he feels that, as a longtime advocate of the Iraqi people (particularly the Kurds) while in exile, he is entitled to some voice in the new organization of Iraq. I think we would do well to at least give him an ear - he knows the local politics, the Kurdish leaders, the Arab mindset, AND something about how democracies work...
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 20:34 Comments ||
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SOUTH OF BAGHDAD â In a valley sculpted by man, between the palms and roses, lies a vast marble and steel city known as Al-Tuwaitha. In the suburbs about 18 miles south of the capital's suburbs, this city comprises nearly 100 buildings â workshops, laboratories, cooling towers, nuclear reactors, libraries and barracks â that belong to the Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission.
Investigators Tuesday discovered that Al-Tuwaitha hides another city. This underground nexus of labs, warehouses, and bomb-proof offices was hidden from the public and, perhaps, International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors who combed the site just two months ago, until the U.S. Marine Corps Combat Engineers discovered it three days ago. Fancy that! A secret Iraqi facility, one that the IAEA never found! Hey Hans, check this out!
So far, Marine nuclear and intelligence experts have discovered 14 buildings that betray high levels of radiation. Some of the readings show nuclear residue too deadly for human occupation. A few hundred meters outside the complex, where peasants say the "missile water" is stored in mammoth caverns, the Marine radiation detectors go "off the charts."
"It's amazing," said Chief Warrant Officer Darrin Flick, the battalion's nuclear, biological and chemical warfare specialist. "I went to the off-site storage buildings, and the rad detector went off the charts. Then I opened the steel door, and there were all these drums, many, many drums, of highly radioactive material."
To nuclear experts in the United States, the discovery of a subterranean complex is highly interesting, perhaps the atomic "smoking gun" intelligence agencies have been searching for as Operation Iraqi Freedom unfolds.
Last fall, they say, the Central Intelligence Agency prodded international inspectors to probe Al-Tuwaitha for weapons of mass destruction. The inspectors came away with nothing. I can't imagine!
"They went through that site multiple times, but did they walk around without their blindfolds go underground? I never heard anything about that," said physicist David Albright, a former IAEA Action Team inspector in Iraq from 1992 to 1997. Officials at the IAEA could not be reached for comment. "We know nothing! Nothing!"
"The Marines should be particularly careful because of those high readings. Three hours at levels like that and people begin to vomit. That leads me to wonder, if the readings are accurate, whether radioactive material was deliberately left there to expose people to dangerous levels. You couldn't do scientific work in levels like that. You would die."
Albright hopes the Marines safeguard any documents they find and preserve the site for analysis. That, say the Combat Engineers, is their mission. So that someone competent can review them.
Nestled in a bend in the Tigris River, Al-Tuwaitha was built in the early 1960s. Nuclear experts believe the government began Iraq's nuclear weapons program there between 1972 and 1976. Satellite imagery shows dramatic expansion at the site in the '70s, '80s and '90s, according to the Institute for Science and International Security.
Mindful of nuclear weapons inspectors, ISIS said the Iraqis developed methods to thwart them when they visited Al-Tuwaitha.
"Iraq developed procedures to limit access to these buildings by IAEA inspectors who had a right to inspect the fuel fabrication facility. On days when the Keystone Kops inspectors were scheduled to visit, only the fuel fabrication rooms were open to them. Usually, employees were told to take their rooms so that the inspectors did not see an unusually large number of people," according to a 1999 report Albright wrote with Corey Gay and Khidhir Hamza for ISIS.
Hamza, an Iraqi nuclear engineer who defected from Iraq in 1994, testified before Congress last August that Iraq could have had nuclear weapons by 2005. Yesterday, Hamza expressed great surprise that the underground site could even exist. The ground there is muddy and composed of clay, he said. The water table is barely a foot and a half below the surface of the ground. During construction of one of the former nuclear reactors there, French engineers spent a fortune pumping water from the foundation area, only to see buildings crumble when the water was removed.
Hamza said the French built a reactor at Al-Tuwaitha that Israel destroyed in 1981. The Russians built a reactor that was destroyed during the Gulf War. Both had the muddy ground to contend with.
So the Marine's discovery makes the former atomic inspector wonder if the Iraqis went to the colossal expense of pumping enough water to build the underground city because no reasonable inspector would think anything might be built underground there. Nobody would expect it,â Hamza said. âNobody would think twice about going back there.â No one ever said Saddam was stupid when it came to deceiving others.
Despite being destroyed twice by bombings, Al-Tuwaitha nevertheless grew to become headquarters of the Iraqi nuclear program, with several research reactors, plutonium processors and uranium enrichment facilities bustling, according to the Federation of American Scientists.
"The plutonium processing was dispersed on-site by the bombing in 1991," said Michael Levi, the Federation's director. A more polite way of saying, "blown to hell and scattered all over."
"But the Iraqis started to rebuild it. And they continued building there after 1998, when the Iraqis ended the inspections.
"I do not believe the latest round of inspections included anything underground, so anything you find underground would be very suspicious. It sounds absolutely amazing."
The nuclear scientists, engineers and technicians, housed in a plush neighborhood near the campus, have run away, along with Baathist party loyalists. Farmers in rags drive the scientists' Mercedes and Land Rovers across Highway Six, filled with looted color televisions, glow in the dark silk rugs and Irredescent Blue Burberry suits. Help yourselves, boys! If you don't mind, however, let us run this handy-dandy Geiger counter over yer booty first!
That's where the Marines see the grand irony. Amidst grinding poverty, where peasants eke an existence out of dust and river water, the Saddam Hussein regime built a lavish atomic weapons program. In a nation with some of the world's largest petroleum reserves, Saddam saw the need for nuclear energy.
"It's going to take some very smart people a very long time to sift through everything here," said Flick. "All this machinery. All this technology. They could do a lot of very bad things with all of this."
The mayor of this high-tech city is, for now, Capt. John Seegar, a combat engineer commander from Houston, Tx. He trudges up the 10-story hillocks hiding the campus from the surrounding villages and, crossing near a demolished mud bunker, it all opens up, gleaming and swaddled in roses.
"I've never seen anything like it, ever," said Seegar, who leads a company of combat engineers turned into combat grunts. "How did the world miss all of this? Why couldn't they see what was happening here?" Hans? Hans? Got an answer for the man?
Seegar's biggest headache: Peasant looters, who keep cutting through the miles of barbed wire, no longer electrified because the war killed the power. He cradles in his arms blueprints in Arabic, showing recent construction, and maps in English, detailing which buildings test radioactive. Next to each, Seegar's placed an asterisk.
"Three weeks ago, the scientists seemed to have abandoned the complex," said Seegar. "That's what the villagers say. The place was protected by the Special Republic Guard, but they deserted it, too. Four days ago, everyone was gone. Then we came." For him, Al-Tuwaitha is like a crime scene, and the next detectives on the atomic beat will be Army specialists.
The offices underground, under unlit signs warning of "Gas/Gaz," are stuffed with videos and pictures, all showing how this complex was built, largely over the last four years after formal international inspections ended. The Marines haven't even mapped all the subterranean tunnels veining the site.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/10/2003 12:54 am ||
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Many of the IAEA's "inspectors" are Arab graduates of the nuclear engineering program at Cairo University. Egypt, which has a grand total of one power reactor, is able to employ only a small fraction of the several dozen nuclear engineers that graduate from the university each year. Many go on to become IAEA inspectors. Slip a few jihaddis into the mix, lobby the IAEA to be sensitive to the ethnicity of the inspected country by allowing inspections to be carried out by fellow Arabs and this outcome isn't at all surprising.
Posted by: B. ||
04/10/2003 2:00 Comments ||
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I'm sure we'll eventually turn up the dirt, although I'm guessing that a lot of it is already in Syria by now. But I will not get my hopes up just yet. A lot of preliminary reports about WMD and mass graves have turned out to be false alarms so far. Jumping all over these reports is burning some of the coalition's credibility (although it's the journalists jumping all over them while Centcom is always scrupulous about their reports). Let's wait and see.
Posted by: Tokyo Taro ||
04/10/2003 4:44 Comments ||
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This is one of the sites used by Iraq's Group 4 & 5 nuclear development teams. http://www.douglasdebono.com/saddam2.htm is a link that suggests this has been going on a lot longer than 4 years.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
04/10/2003 7:24 Comments ||
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Is this surprising? Pardon me, but I don't think so. We always knew we'd find an active nuke program. I'm more interested in having a good, long look underneath a certain mountain NE of Baghdad.
WASHINGTON (AP) - With the fall of Baghdad, top priorities for American forces in Iraq now are recovering U.S. prisoners of war - including any still alive from the 1991 Gulf War - securing the northern oil fields and unearthing illegal weapons, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Wednesday.
Another must is to capture ``or otherwise deal with'' Saddam Hussein and his sons, Rumsfeld said. Assuming they aren't already worm food.
At a Pentagon news conference, Rumsfeld and his top military adviser, Gen. Richard Myers, attempted to strike a balance between celebration and caution - declaring the Iraqi president's rule all but dead but also emphasizing that much remains to be done before U.S. troops can go home.
U.S. troops have been through most areas of Baghdad, Pentagon officials said later Wednesday. Sporadic attacks from pockets of resistance continued, but no organized, large-scale fighting, officials said.
Rumsfeld listed eight missions in Iraq that must be completed ``before victory can be declared.'' He mentioned first the need to ``capture, account for or otherwise deal with'' Saddam, his sons Qusai and Odai, and other senior members of the government whom he did not mention by name.
Wonder if Baghdad Bob is on the list?
Rumsfeld said he didn't know whether Saddam and his sons escaped the U.S. bombing Monday of a building in Baghdad where U.S. intelligence believed they were attending a meeting. And he made no promises about finding the Iraqi leader. ``It is hard to find a single person,'' he said, adding later, ``He's either dead or he's incapacitated or he's healthy and cowering in some tunnel some place trying to avoid being caught.''
Senior White House officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said there is no checklist that must be completed before Bush declares victory. The end could come before some of Rumsfeld's stated missions are achieved, possibly including the confirmation of Saddam's fate, they said.
Rumsfeld listed these other remaining U.S. tasks:
-Discover more about how Saddam built his weapons programs and locate Iraqi scientists with knowledge of them. He said U.S. government rewards are being offered to further those goals.
-Capture or kill terrorists still operating in Iraq.
-Find members of Saddam's Baath Party and their records and weapons caches. Also, locate records of the Iraqi intelligence service and other security organizations and paramilitaries.
-Work with Iraqis, including those who are returning from exile, to establish an interim government authority.
The air campaign in Iraq is slowing somewhat, now that Baghdad resistance has been broken. But U.S. ground forces are as busy as ever, and within a few days they are expected to be bolstered by the deployment of a portion of the Army's 4th Infantry Division into Iraq. The 4th Infantry is still assembling in Kuwait and is preparing to join the fight in central or northern Iraq, a senior defense official said Wednesday. Other follow-on forces may come later.
Rumsfeld said Syria was being suicidal ``notably unhelpful'' by permitting senior Iraqi officials and some of their family members to slip into their country, and he accused the Syrians of ignoring an earlier warning to stop supplying Iraq with military equipment like night vision goggles.
``We are getting scraps of intelligence saying that Syria has been cooperative in facilitating the movement of people out of Iraq into Syria,'' Rumsfeld said. Some have stayed in Syria for ``safekeeping,'' while others transited Syria to other countries he did not mention by name.
Myers, appearing with Rumsfeld, urged any Iraqis who are holding American POWs to permit the International Red Cross to visit them as required under international conventions. ``When the hostilities end, we fully expect to find these young men and women in good health and well cared for,'' Myers said. Or else.
The Pentagon lists seven American POWs - all Army soldiers. Six are male and one is female. There also are eleven U.S. servicemen listed as missing, including two Air Force pilots of an F-15E fighter lost Sunday near Tikrit, north of Baghdad. As of Wednesday, 101 U.S. servicemen had been killed in action since the war began March 20, according to the Pentagon.
Rumsfeld also alluded to the undetermined fate of the only remaining POW from the first Gulf War, Navy F/A-18 pilot Scott Speicher. Without mentioning him by name, Rumsfeld said U.S. forces in Iraq must ``ensure the safe return of prisoners of war - those captured in this war, as well as any still held from the last Gulf War, Americans and other nationals.'' His reference to ``other nationals'' apparently meant Kuwaitis who remain unaccounted for from 1991.
Marines who captured Rasheed air base just southeast of Baghdad found uniforms believed to be those of at least two U.S. POWs. Some of the uniforms reportedly had blood stains and bullet holes. The uniforms were found in a military prison at Rasheed where U.S. POWs were held in the 1991 war.
Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks, the Central Command deputy director of operations, said Wednesday that some of the uniforms found in the prison had names on them. He declined to identify them.
The United States says it has about 7,300 Iraqi POWs and the International Red Cross is getting access to them.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/10/2003 12:48 am ||
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Iraqi exiles in Britain are excited at the prospect of returning to their homeland now that Saddam Hussein's regime has crumbled.
Yassim fled Iraq in 1980 after his father and uncle were killed by Saddam Hussein's regime.
But now he has applied for his papers, bought a plane ticket and is packing to go home to Baghdad.
"I haven't seen my mother, or brothers and sisters for 23 years," he told BBC correspondent Graham Satchell.
"The first thing I want to see is my family."
Yassim is one of thousands of Iraqis in the UK who want to return to their homeland now that the threat from Saddam's brutal regime has been lifted.
Children who have only known exile but have been told about their country by their parents are longing to see it.
Watching liberation
One little girl told BBC News: "When I saw them tear down Saddam's statue I knew that he was broken, dead.
"We can go and live there now, have what we want, what we dreamed of, like smell the air."
'I knew Saddam was broken, dead'
In Iraqi cafes across London many watched the scenes of liberation in the centre of Baghdad on Wednesday in disbelief.
Men drank tea and cheered as they watched Saddam Hussein's statue finally topple.
"It's an historical moment," said one man, at the Baghdad Cafe in west London.
"We have been waiting for this a long time and we thank the British and American people and troops for helping us get rid of the most criminal man in the world."
'Keep him alive'
Another said he would not be a happy if the former leader were found dead.
'I want to see Saddam on trial'
"I want to see him on trial and talking about why he did what he did," he said.
On all the exiles' minds is the thought that they could soon be reunited with grandparents, brothers, sisters, aunts and uncles they have not seen for many years.
One woman has not seen her family for 24 years.
"I have waited for this moment," she said. "I want to go to Iraq as soon as I can."
MURAT - Obviously these people have been brainwashed by living in the west so long. They have been poisoned by democracy and freedom. Once they get back they'll realise that life under Saddam was really not that bad.
Posted by: rg117 ||
04/10/2003 09:41 am ||
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The Arab world thinks the Iraqi people are insane, because they can't understand how you couldn't love such a nice guy. The rest of the Arab world closes their eyes at his evil and loved him because he was against the Americans. This just shows what the arab world is capable of. They would rather see their countries enslaved than helped by the Americans. Unbelievable!!
Posted by: George ||
04/10/2003 9:54 Comments ||
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Sammy's gone â maybe underground, maybe to meet his maker, maybe to Russia, maybe to Syria, maybe to the Costa Brava. With him went all of the Baath Party but a handful of die-hards. Some of them are on their way to Tikrit for GötterdÀmmerung, or an Arab equivalent. Some are trying to pot a few Marines before going bye-bye, dying in the Lost Cause. But the Baath really went out with Saddam. It could come back, someday, but it will be through the back door, with a different name, wearing a false moustache and glasses. Probably it's dead.
So the hard part's over, right? Not quite. The Baath was as much a mask as a political movement. With the mask off, we're face to face with the real enemy. It's an enemy we're already familiar with. In Afghanistan and Pakistan it wears an Islamic face, but it stalks the "Arab Street," too. Now we have to contend with the xenophobes, with the blind, unreasoning hatred that's not limited to the Islamic world, but which the Islamic world is trying to make its trademark. They're hardly even bothering with the pro forma Islamic posturings â the Syrians, Jordanians, Palestinians, Sudanese, and other sweepings are swarming to Iraq not to protect Iraq and the Iraqis, but to kill Americans. There's a desultory blessing given by the usual vicious holy men, who are more politicians than theologians, but the real driver is pure malevolence, hatred of America and Americans.
The tactics used by the Masked Marauders are the same they use back home in Palestine or that they'd like to use if their repressive regimes in other places would let them. The link has always been there with Iraq, but because it's so much more obvious in Syriaand Iran we tended to overlook it. But Sammy managed to pack in a bit of both terror worlds: Ansar al-Islam in the north, with its al-Qaeda roots and international wahhabi links, to terrorize the Kurds, and a deep and intricate involvement with the PLO and the Fatah thugs. Our battle goes from being "only" with al-Qaeda and its supporters, but encompasses al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, Tanzim, and Hezbollah. It's all warf and woof on the same fabric. So now we can gradually switch from conventional war to dealing with the intifadah to come. Syria's already described our presence in Iraq as an "occupation" â shades of Paleostine. If we don't deal sternly with the flow of explosives and hard boys, if we don't cut the funding off at its source before it has a chance to get started, we're going to have a long drawn-out problem.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/10/2003 09:06 pm ||
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Well, we've dealt sternly with the source of $25,000 checks to the Paleo jihadi families...that's a good start, right?
#2
Fred---We knew that when we went into Afghanistan that we would be giving the hornets nest a kick. We also knew that going into Iraq would be the equivalent of knocking the nest down and opening it up. Iraq was the low fruit on the tree. The arabs are shocked and awed, and now they are pissed. So now we have to send messages to the other nutcases coming out of the woodwork. President Bush, at the beginning of this war was talking 10 years. That may not be far off. Every nutcase is going to try to derail recovery and reform in Iraq. We are going to have to liquidate them, either in Iraq, host countries, and are going to have to keep drying up the money supply that keeps them operating. We need to be firm and fair in Iraq, and we have to out Israel the Israelis in dealing with these terrorist proxies. This is a fight to the death. Working on fixing Iraq is going to be like doing open heart surgery while on a long hike. It will take stout hearted people and lots of no BS leadership. But I remember what you wrote recently about the arabs. They will mouth and jihad, but they will also back down in front of an Abrams and a 50 cal in the chest. I guess we see what we have to do.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/10/2003 22:04 Comments ||
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Ahhhh.. They've only got a 50% chance of backing down from a 50-cal in the chest. They've also got a 50% chance of falling flat on their face.
#4
The trick is to get the Iraqis to start fending off the "unhelpful" foreigners themselves, including the ones further south of their border. That's in the short term. In the long term, the Israeli-Palestinian thing has to be settled. Preferably equitably.
#5
Morocco, Libya, Algeria, Tunisia, Kuwait, Afghanistan, Lebanon. The United States armed forces has invaded each of these muslim countries in the past 60 years. And we have left each of them. It holds no territory in any of them and only holds a small military presence in Afghanistan at the invitation of the people of Afghanistan, to whom 2 million people, using nothing more sophisitcated than their feet,walked back home to in search of freedom secured by those same infidel American Armed Forces.
There are people in the Arab world who will try to use the "occupation" of arab lands by infidels as a way to drum up support for their cause, but this is a futile losing effort.
Because America, unlike every other invading army has something to give (rather than to take) that no army has ever given before. Liberty and Democracy. The Arab world thirsts for freedom more than they do water. They have been kept from it by the sheiks and mullahs for too long, and if America did not have millions of arabs and muslims living within its protection as full citizens, the result might be different but every Arab knows someone in their family who has gone to America, and has become wealthy and prosperous in a country far away (run by christians!) for no other reason than they have freedom and democracy.
The Destruction of Saddam Hussein is the "shot heard round the world". In the cafes and souks of all muslim and arab countries the question is being whisperd about "if Saddam could fall that fast, perhaps it could happen here". There are some who say that and shudder, knowing that it is they and their power that could be coming to an end. but there are many many more who, know having seen it for themselves, will finally believe it to be true. It will not be a passing thought, it will begin to invade not just their dreams of the night, but soon, you will see it invade their thoughts during the day. Then, we will all see something truly magnificent.
The work in Iraq will be hard, and there will be many people at home and abroad who will work against it, but do not loose faith in what could happen here. If you find yourself wondering what the value was for all this just remember to think of the "childrens prison" that was liberated is Basra.
All of the Arab world is like a large "childrens Prison", and America just took its boltcutters to the locks.
Posted by: Frank Martin ||
04/10/2003 22:55 Comments ||
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Fred's right of course. We are in for a long fight regardless of how well the Iraq engagmement goes. We are doing moral due diligence by trying to engage and reform this culture in Iraq and, hopefully, to disrupt the flow of funds and Jihadis before a nuclear 9-11 leaves us with no choice than to really take the gloves off and end entire cultures rather than merely regimes. I hope it works, but we are being naive to assume it is likely.
Targeting child kidnappers, molesters and pornographers, the House on Thursday overwhelmingly approved protections including a national Amber Alert network and legislation to strengthen federal anti-pornography laws.
Approved by a 400-25 vote, the legislation was called "the most important and far-reaching child protection legislation in the past 20 years" by the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee.
That's all well and good. But. Joe Biden saw to it that the RAVE act was piggybacked on to the legislation. So it has now passed too.
#1
Biden's a senator. Has this piece of unused toilet paper passed there, too? If so, are there any differences that "have to be worked out in committee"? If so, that's the place to flush the "RAVEing lunatic Act"
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/10/2003 19:15 Comments ||
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The story doesn't even mention the RAVE act. Are you sure?
Posted by: g wiz ||
04/10/2003 19:15 Comments ||
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This is rotten news, but it is true. No expression of cynicism can capture the nature of our polished oafs in Washington (legislative branch).
Thousands of labor union workers crowded along the western edge of Ground Zero Thursday to show their support for U.S. troops and the war against Iraq. Police said 25,000 people, including electrical workers, carpenters, ironworkers, firefighters and police officers, attended the gathering.
Some in the crowd carried photographs of friends and relatives killed in the World Trade Center attacks. Others wore yellow ribbons and chanted "U-S-A! U-S-A!"
New York Gov. George Pataki praised the U.S. troops in Iraq. "Some of you may have seen yesterday in Baghdad a picture of a statue of that evil dictator being toppled and dragged through the streets by Iraqis," Pataki said to the cheering crowd.
"Let's melt it down. Let's bring it to New York and let's put it in one of the girders that's going to rise over here as a symbol of the rebuilding of New York and the rebuilding of America." There's an excellent idea.
Construction worker William Sekzer's son, Jason, died September 11. He attended the rally because he believes the terrorist attack is connected to the war on Iraq. "What do you want as proof?" Sekzer asked. "Do you want Saddam Hussein shaking hands with Osama bin Laden?" That would not be enough for Michael Moore. Or Susan Sarandon. Or Sean Penn.
Ironworker Kevin Crowley said, "We want them (U.S. troops) to kick some serious ass and then come back."
New Jersey Gov. James McGreevey, Chairman of the New York Stock Exchange Dick Grasso and former Sens. Alfonse D'Amato and Bob Dole also attended. Dole said: "Now we have liberated the people of Iraq from the strutting psychopath, the statues are coming down. No more torture chambers, no more acid baths. I'd call Saddam's a gangster's regime, but that'd be an insult to gangsters."
The rally was sponsored by the Building & Construction Trades Council of Greater New York.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/10/2003 05:42 pm ||
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Hmmm... there's some interesting politics going on here. Seems to me this doesn't bode well for the Dem presidential candidates who've staked out anti-war turf.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/10/2003 19:18 Comments ||
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Syria has called for an end to the "occupation" of its neighbour, Iraq, in its first official response to the fall of Baghdad. But Damascus did not respond to accusations on Wednesday from US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld that it was helping members of Saddam Hussein's regime to escape. The US administration kept up the pressure on Syria on Thursday, with Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz saying it was "shipping killers into Iraq to try to kill Americans". In a foreign ministry statement, Syria said: "In these dangerous circumstances, Syria calls on the international community to make every effort to put an end to the occupation." The Iraqi people should be allowed "to freely choose their dictator government without foreign interference", it said. But Damascus said nothing about Mr Rumsfeld's assertions that he had seen "scraps of intelligence saying that Syria has been co-operative in facilitating the move of the people out of Iraq and into Syria".
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/10/2003 03:06 pm ||
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Freely choose? Like the Syrians, who've been under a military regime since, when, 1963?
#2
Do you think Bashir Assad (Syrian Bathe Party Leader) and Saddam Hussein (Iraqi Bathe Party leader) are in cohoots? At the very least Bashir should change the name out of the shame that party has brought to the region.
North Korea became the first country to withdraw from the nuclear non-proliferation treaty (NPT) on Thursday, but the international community appeared no closer to agreeing a united response to the communist state's suspected nuclear weapons programme. The withdrawal, which followed a 90-day notice period since Pyongyang announced its intention to quit in January, dealt a blow to the 187-nation arms-control pact and posed a challenge to US president George W. Bush's drive to stop "rogue" states acquiring weapons of mass destruction. Washington wanted the UN Security Council to issue a statement condemning North Korea's withdrawal from the NPT, but the move was blocked by China and Russia at a Council meeting in New York on Wednesday. The disagreement dashed hopes that the Council could heal its bitter divisions over Iraq by forging a united approach towards North Korea. Beijing and Moscow, traditional allies of Pyongyang and permanent Council members, argued that a statement would increase tensions on the divided Korean peninsula rather than help solve the crisis. North Korea, named by the US alongside Iraq as part of an "axis of evil", warned in advance that it would consider Security Council action a "prelude to war". Washington attempted to play down its differences with Beijing and Moscow, insisting there was international "unanimity" behind the goal of keeping the Korean peninsula free from nuclear weapons. However, divisions within the US government about policy towards North Korea have been exposed this week by the contrasting statements of different US officials. While John Negroponte, US ambassador to the UN, said Washington sought a "peaceful and diplomatic" solution to its dispute with Pyongyang, John Bolton, under-secretary of state for arms control, urged North Korea and other countries seeking weapons of mass destruction to "draw the appropriate lesson from Iraq". Mr. Bolton's comment seemed likely to deepen North Korea's fear that it could be the next target of US military action. Earlier this week, North Korea said that Iraq's experience showed that the only way to protect against attack by the US was to develop a powerful military deterrent. "Everyone is waiting to see what conclusion North Korea draws from war in Iraq," said Paik Jin-hyun, professor of international relations at Seoul National university. "Will they decide they must accelerate their nuclear programme to make it too dangerous for the US to attack? Or will they decide it is safer to compromise with Washington?"
#1
Tick, tick, tick... time to put a night shift on that Tomahawk production line.
Posted by: Tom ||
04/10/2003 14:13 Comments ||
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Why aren't South Korea or Japan worried about this? It doesn't seem like they're half as concerned as we are.
Posted by: g wiz ||
04/10/2003 15:43 Comments ||
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g wiz - Nkor doesnt need to nukes to kill huge numbers of S. Koreans, artillery will do it. The nukes are more of a problem in terms of spread to terrorists or other rogue states (sold for hard currency?) and so is more of a problem to the US than to the region. Japan has been tougher in its rhetoric than SKor.
#4
Gwiz...Japan has been EXTREMELY vocal about North Korea's nuke program - in THEIR newspapers, which don't seem to get much play here in the States. They're even talking about expanding the size and role of their military, and cooperating with the US on anti-missile technology. It's a very short flight from Pyongyang to about half of Japan.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/10/2003 17:15 Comments ||
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It's time for Powell to announce that food aid will also be terminated. Also, we'll put the screws to the South Koreans and the Japanese about forex remittances.
Posted by: Brian ||
04/10/2003 21:38 Comments ||
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From Khilafah.com, one of the most radical, wacko, flipped out Islamic sites I've ever read.
On the morning of Tuesday 8/4 in Cairo there was a military coup attempt against the agent ruling regime, and the force tried to head towards the presidential palace to occupy it and force the agent Hussni Mubarak to resign. But very unfortunately, the Republican Guards, with the aid of the Military Police and some other units led by other agents, were able to block this unit (Liwaa). And many negotiations were then held to convince then to go back to their bunkers and surrender themselves, but those heroes refused to give in to these requests and insisted the American agent resigns. Hussni Mubarak is, of course, an American agent.
And when the negotiations reached a dead end, the Liwaa was surrounded and artillery fired on them, and also Apache airplanes were used against them, and many were killed and injured on both sides. Note they used "Apache" airplanes, a product of the evil zionist controlled Americans.
As for the group that was arrested, they were assassinated on the spot, which was only about 20 km from the Republicââ¬â¢s presidential headquarters in New Cairo. Gunned'um down on the spot! That'll show them!
As for the Egyptian media, it was mentioned on the news that the shots heard were military manoeuvres with live ammunition, and this is obviously not correct because for more than 50 years there has never been manoeuvres with live ammunition this close to the capital Cairo. Just gunned them down and denied it happened. Just a training exercise, nothing to see, move along. Of course, even though it is from a wacko islamic group, it doesn't mean that it didn't happen. I'm quite sure that our agent Hussni would do it and has in the past.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 01:14 pm ||
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Khilafah got it from http://www.alokab.com, which is an Islamist forum. Not the best source, but we'll see if anyone else picks it up.
Khilafah had the report on the coup attempt in Qatar last October, and that one turned out to be true.
Posted by: Fred ||
04/10/2003 13:55 Comments ||
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An MP from Qom Mohammad-Reza Esmaili speaking at the Inter-Parliamentary Union conference in Santiago on Thursday, stressed that the human community should make greater effort to get rid of weapons of mass destruction (WMD). Oooh, a statement of the obvious from an Iranian parliamentarian. Wonder what brought that on?
Esmaili, a member of the Iranian delegation, addressing the general meeting of the conference on Wednesday pointed out that nuclear arsenals and WMD pose serious threat to world peace and security. The 108th meeting of the Inter-Parliamentary Union in Santiago, Chile, is being attended by over 120 states. Underlining the need to embark on a new phase of cooperation to destroy WMD, he said that Iran is one of the main victims of WMD and that the human community should give priority to ban their use and get rid of them. "Given that the use of WMD has been proscribed by Islam, Iran takes nuclear arsenals and WMD as a serious threat to world tranquility and security," he added. Is that a suggestion for Pakland to dump its "Islamic nukes"? Didn't think so.
He described pre-emptive war as detrimental to international stability and disarmament treaties. The MP said that legislators, who are committed to ratify the conventions and drafts on the peaceful application of the new technologies proposed by the governments, expect the governments to be granted access to the latest human scientific achievements to meet the requirements of their people without facing any obstacle, discrimination or pretext. Esmaili reiterated Iran's belief that a world free from WMD can only be materialized within the framework of creating confidence and cooperation in the international community. I think that's the way parliamentarians say that you're supposed to talk about the subject, often for years, rather than doing anything about it.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/10/2003 12:55 pm ||
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from the holy city of Qom - how did they miss that standard line?
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/10/2003 13:24 Comments ||
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Kermanshah Prov, IRNA: A top military commander said here on Wednesday night that the Islamic Republic of Iran's Army resolutely defends the borders of Iran. Talking to reporters, the Commander of Western Regions Operational Headquarters Brigadier General Fereydoun Nouri who is the commander of forces in Kermanshah and Ilam border provinces and was speaking at the zero point of the Iran-Iraq border, added, "the Western borders of Iran are quite safe and secure currently and all military operations conducted inside Iraqi territory adjacent to Iran's soil are carefully pursued by the IRI armed forces. He said, "the Iranian army will strongly defend the territorial integrity of the Islamic Republic of Iran and will respond firmly to any violation of the international borders of Iran by the foreign forces." The brigadier general reiterated, "since the beginning of the US-British forces' military attack against Iraq, no bullet has been shot into the sacred territory of Iran in the West Region." That is no doubt because of the Heroic Forces of Islamic Revolution™, which stand guard so vigilantly, rather than because the Americans and Brits weren't interested in them and the Iraqis were trying to save their collective nether regions.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
04/10/2003 12:48 pm ||
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E.F.L. Israeli helicopters launched four missiles at a car carrying Islamic militants in Gaza City on Thursday, killing a top commander and wounding 12 bystanders, Palestinian witnesses and doctors said. The leader of the Islamic Jihad's military wing, Mahmoud Zatme, 30, died in the attack, a group official said. It was the second Israeli killing from the air this week in Gaza. Thursday's strike followed one on Tuesday â an Israeli F-16 warplane rocketed a car in Gaza, killing Saed Arabeed, 38, a senior Hamas commander, and six other people, including four civilians. Eventually, no one will want to be a senior leader.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 11:55 am ||
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The State Department is urging Americans to avoid travel to the Sahara Desert areas of southeastern Algeria where more than 25 European tourists have disappeared since February. A State Department travel warning issued late Wednesday also recommends that U.S. citizens evaluate carefully their security and safety before traveling to Algeria. Take the hint, people
"Random terrorist attacks still occur in rural and remote areas, on public transportation outside the major cities, and in some parts of the country at night," the statement said.
"In the past year, the greater Algiers area has seen sporadic terrorist attacks, including drive-by shootings of police and small explosive devices placed in or near markets and bus stops." "If you feel you must travel to Algeria, ensure your affairs are in order and leave contact numbers for your next of kin."
Posted by: Steve ||
04/10/2003 10:10 am ||
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#1
What a surprise! Chirac was just there and said this would be a great place to bring your family. He wanted to renew the friendship of such an important ally? Is this guy for real; Chirac has lost it?
Posted by: George ||
04/10/2003 10:20 Comments ||
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BTW Arab media: Why the hell don't you care about the 100,000 Algerians slaughtered since 1992? Go to anp.org (sorry no link), the Algerian Free Officers Movement website, to get the story.
Posted by: Michael ||
04/10/2003 10:54 Comments ||
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Get a load of this wagon full of horse hockey â long but funny ha ha and funny uneasy at the same time
Almost 10 days ago, there was a halt in U.S.-British operations in Iraq. However, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and the chief of the U.S. Central Command, General Tommy Franks, in their interviews with the media never elaborated on the issue, but instead tried to mislead world public opinion in order to hide a greater secret decision from them.
Hmmm... Deep-laid and insidious plots, is it?
Suspicions rose on the same day when U.S. troops, that had been stopped at the Euphrates, immediately were able to advance toward the heart of Baghdad without any significant resistance by Iraqi forces. Nobody asked why Tikrit, that was once called the ideological heart of Saddam's government and the last possible trench of the Iraqi army, was never targeted by U.S. and British bombs and missiles. Or why when the elite Iraqi forces arrived in eastern Iraq from Tikrit, the pace of the invaders advancing toward central Baghdad immediately increased. Also, it has been reported that over the past 24 hours, a plane was authorized to leave Iraq bound for Russia. Who was aboard this plane?
I dunno. You're telling the story...
All these ambiguities, the contradictory reports about Saddam's situation, and the fact that the highest-ranking Iraqi officials were all represented by a single individual â Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed (Info Man) al-Sahhaf â and the easy fall of Baghdad shows that the center of collusion had been Tikrit, where Saddam, his aides, and lieutenants from the Baath Party had been waiting for al-Sahhaf to join them so that they could receive the required guarantees to leave the country in a secret compromise with coalition forces. Iâm sorry â is anyone else laughing out loud yet?
This possibility was confirmed by the Al-Jazeera network, which quoted a Russian intelligence official as saying that the Iraqi forces and the invaders had made a deal. The Russian official told Al-Jazeera that the Iraqi leaders had agreed to show no serious resistance against the U.S.-British troops in return for a guarantee that Saddam and his close relatives could leave Iraq unharmed. The question now is whether the U.S. would prefer Iraqi President Saddam Hussein to be dead or wants him alive to be tried. There may even be a third alternative that the White House is looking far. It seems that U.S. officials would welcome a solution where Saddam was found, either dead or alive. I vote for dead. I vote for a strong resemblance to cranberry jam.
First of all, the White House hawks and U.S. President George W. Bush would definitely not be saddened to hear that reports claiming that Saddam was killed, which were highlighted by the U.S. media on Tuesday after a missile attack on an underground restaurant in Baghdad, have been verified. This is because they do not want the Iraqi people to ever find out about the secrets of the clandestine political cooperation between the U.S. and Iraq. On the other hand, Saddam's death would mean that the weak Iraqi regime has been completely defeated, and this may to some extent satisfy Washington's feeling of militarism. However, an inactive, defeated, and exiled dictator can definitely be beneficial to the White House, provided that he is under Washington's control. Look at what happened to Mullah Muhammad Omar and Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan. Is there any sign that the U.S. is interested in finding them and wiping them out? Oh, yes. Binnyâs got a number on his back, and itâs counting down.
One should know that these two, as U.S. henchmen over the past decade, provided enough pretexts for the White House to dominate Afghanistan, even though they are still at large. This automatically justifies the U.S. presence in Afghanistan. Therefore, Washington benefits from its inability to find the Taliban and Al-Qaeda leaders. The same holds true with Saddam, and the U.S. failure to find Saddam, or Washington's efforts to withhold news of his death, provide the best pretext to stay in Iraq.
Well, by golly, that lends a new dimension to the word "devious," doesn't it?
Secondly, in the event that Saddam survives the U.S.-British attacks on Iraq, the White House will have to devise new policies and approaches to make the best use of this. There is no doubt that Saddam knows many of the secrets of U.S. strategy in the region over the past three decades. If he were put on trial in an international and open court, he might reveal much evil about the U.S. that would expose the real image of the White House hawks to the world. This is the reason why the Fox news network has taken the lead in reminding the world that an international tribunal would lack the authority to put the Iraqi president on trial, given that neither Iraq nor the U.S. have joined the International Criminal Court. Fox has thus proposed three alternatives to deal with Saddam in case he saves his skin in the U.S.-led attacks: living underground, changing his identity, or travelling to the beautiful beaches of Guantanamo!! Needless to say these alternatives will make Saddam harmless for the White House, even if he is not of any use to the U.S. These stances clarify the fact that the rumor on the possibility of Saddam seeking political asylum in Syria is only a red herring because any attempt by the Iraqi president to flee the country without coordinating with the U.S. is absolutely impossible. Really! Donât look in there â we havenât cleaned yet!
Therefore, if there had been any kind of compromise between the U.S. and Saddam, the Iraqi president would take refuge wherever the White House ordered him to. Even dictators have to respect a hierarchy. A minor dictator like Saddam is like a puppet that has danced for a lifetime to the tune of a certain major dictator like the U.S. and cannot act on his own. Saddam did whatever the White House wanted him to do for years. Therefore, the simple answer to the question "Where is Saddam?" is nothing but "Wherever the U.S. desires!" Can I have him in a jar? Or several?
Posted by: Tadderly ||
04/10/2003 09:32 am ||
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#1
Sorry - forgot to remove the Anonymous and make it the me. Appy-polly-loggies.
#2
This is a perfect example of Arab delusion. I think this is hilarious. I believe this type of ignorant and illogical rhetoric works in our favor. Yes, it may whip up resentment, but when the truth is exposed, these people are revealed as the liars and manipulators that they are.
Their people turn on them like rabid dogs.
#3
There's a widespread rumor that Saddam was in the Russian convoy that ran to Syria, that this was agreed to during the "pause", at which point the Iraqi army evaporated, hence the subsequent "lack of resistance" and lack of dead bodies on the battlefield, also implying that everything after the "pause" was just for show.
"Arab" is a linguistic group - people who speak Arabic. By the same logic, the people making up what's being called the "anglosphere" - English speakers - could be called "Engles".
#6
Yup, Sammy's hanging out with Binny and Mullah Omar. They're all driving cabs in Buenos Aires. Elvis comes over on Tuesday for poker night. Or is it Tupac? I get so confused!
Is Al-Jazeera cribbing from the Weekly World News or whatever stupid paper keeps having stories about "Batboy" and Nostradamus at my local supermarket? Or is this Info Man's new gig?
Arab creativity knows no bounds.....
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/10/2003 21:07 Comments ||
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As the cold reality of Baghdad's occupation by U.S. forces descended on the Arab world today, there was anger, shock and frustration, along with warnings of new battles ahead. "Please, America must hear our voices. The American media and people are in a state of euphoria right now, but they are not seeing it the way we are seeing it at all," said Diaa Rashwan, a political scientist at Cairo's Ahram Center for Political and Strategic Studies... Arab political scientist seems almost an oxymoron as the term "scientist" implies the application of logic.
"...The Arab street⢠is very frustrated, and to America, I repeat, I repeat, I repeat, the real war hasn't started yet. We have to be careful with such euphoria. It will only increase the feelings of anger in the Arab world. No Arabs want to welcome an occupying power..." But no Arabs have the balls, brains or organizational abilities to get rid of their own dictators, so we have a logical problem here. The Iraqis at least tried in 1991.
"I can't believe what I am seeing. I am so depressed," said Bassem Zein, 36, owner of a cell phone shop in Beirut who was watching television at work. "It just frustrates me that they enter Baghdad without a fight. This is too much."
We care what you think. Really we do. Smell the methane?
"I hate it," said Ahmed Samir, the manager of a trading company in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, as he watched scenes of Iraqis shaking the hands of American soldiers in Baghdad. "It can only mean they hate Saddam more than they hate the Americans..." And the fact that you like Sammy more than the US exemplifies just what's wrong with the region.
"...If the U.S. really wanted democracy, they would have taken out just about every Arab leader we have. This is very suspect. The U.S. just wants to protect Israel and wants the riches in the region..." It always comes back to the Joooz. Again, no logic here.
..."If the U.S. wants to prove that we Arabs are wrong about this being an occupation for oil and the protection of Israel, it should transfer the whole file to the U.N.," said Hassan Nasaa, chairman of the political science department at Cairo University. Because we all know just how competent the UN is.
Posted by: JAB ||
04/10/2003 09:26 am ||
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#1
I am reminded of a little one hit wonder from the 60's, slightly revised:
"We hate you more today than yesterday,
but not half as much as tommorow..."
#2
"...If the U.S. really wanted democracy, they would have taken out just about every Arab leader we have."
Hey Ahmed, we're only 3 weeks into this, so take a number and get back in line. We'll get around to you soon enough.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
04/10/2003 10:36 Comments ||
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Watched the Arab dish last night a bit. Only Kuwaiti TV is happy about yesterday's scenes. BTW, let's NEVER forget their help. Other feelings (I mean those of the studio anchors and "experts") range from humiliation to wanting to find out who the perpetrators were. This means Syrian, Egyptian Nile TV, and various Lebanese and Gulf channels.
Ranters, I'm sure you have read this morning's papers for the non-Iraqi Arab "experts" opinions. Boys and girls, it can all be summed up pretty simply. They wanted to see our people killed and grilled. I've never served in the military and I'm just amazed at the job the Coalition has done so far. Fredrick the Great, as quoted by George C. Patton/Scott said, "L'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace" The Arab media/intelligencia and by extension govt' whiners like Diaa just don't have what it takes to make audacious changes unless the US military gets involved. Is that our fault? Isn't their attitude just sad? The whiners know it deep down, but rather than take corrective measures, they spout meaningless gems like the US "...isn't seeing it the way we are seeing it at all." No shit, Diaa. I spent four years teaching at a public university in Egypt, and I know this attitude SO well!! What have YOU, and your buddies EVER done, Diaa, to improve the situation?
And what about our own media? Andrew Sullivan and Mark Steyn have been great in Fisking it. Thank God for blogs. Liberation and Le Monde whined and whined yesterday about how the US military "culture" was all about excessive force, e.g. there's a sniper on the roof and two Bradleys take him and some facade out. Why the hell damage the facade? Look at the Brits in Basra, they say, they took the town patiently, neighborhood by neighborhood probing. Yes, correct, French media. That was the strategy given the way the Iraqis fought. Baghdad was different and we probed, found gaping holes and l'audace took over. I'm sure the Brits would have done Baghdad the same way, and we would have done Basra their way pretty much had roles been reversed. Can you imagine if we had followed Liberation/Le Monde and taken our time in Baghdad, what these papers would have said then?
Also saw Johnny Apple on Charlie Rose. What a tub of lisping lard!! I just wish Charlie had asked him a few tough questions re Fatty's prognostications on quagmire in Afghanistan and Iraq, but CR let him off the hook. I guess the kicker was when CR at the end told Johnny how glad he (CR) was to see Apple on the Grey Lady's front page again. HUH? CR also interviewed Hamza Khidir, former head of Iraq nuclear program (but just for 10 minutes, compared to Johnny's 20. Khidir is a stud, honest and without pretentions. We didn't have roses thrown at us upon crossing the border since Saddam's guys were in the crowds and citizens were so cowed. He's heading back home and I can only hope he's put in a high position in the new Iraqi govt.
I could go on forever, but gotta teach, so here it is. George and Tony: Don't go wobbly. Remember Old Europe and non-Iraqi Middle Easterners would have been joyful at seeing our people's bodies strewn left and right. Remember yesterday's scenes. We can't let Iraqi people down, no way. Put REAL civilian pros in charge on the ground there. This is not a pork barrel project. Let UN/EU provide humanitarian aid/$, but strategic and long-range belong to those who risked everything. US/UK/Aussies/Poles/Spanish, etc. The Iraqis are glad we got rid of Saddam, so keep THEM in mind, and not political scientists from Egypt, who didn't give a F... about them before.
Posted by: Michael ||
04/10/2003 10:41 Comments ||
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Rex:
I was just about to click on the "Comment" button and say the same thing or close to it.
Posted by: Mike ||
04/10/2003 11:36 Comments ||
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They were hoping for a nasty, drug-out war in the cheap seats, I think.
The figures I saw were in the area of 1000 civs killed, 5000 wounded. Unknown how many were actually combatants, but I don't think that's a nit to pick right now. Let's assume the numbers are correct.
Another 60's favorite comes to mind, from CSN&Y:
Find the cost of freedom,
buried in the ground.
Mother Earth will cover you
Lay your body down...
I wasn't sure whether this should go under Middle East, but considering it's about Syria, I thought it more appropriate here.
I should probably put in a new section â maybe call it Axis of Nasty or something. Or just a separate heading for Syria, since it's going to be in the news more in the coming months.
"Now that Saddam Hussein's regime has collapsed, it's time for a change in Syria, too," said IDF Gen. Amos Gilad today. He's not alone. The U.S. warned Syria, Iran and North Korea last night that "they had better come to the right conclusions from [what happened in] Iraq."
I notice Syria's taken Iraq's place on the Axis of Evil list â I wonder if that's official, or if it's fire for effect?
John R. Boloton, Undersecretary of State for Weapons Supervision and National Security, told reporters in Rome that he hopes that these countries will realize that their attempts to acquire weapons of mass destruction "will not further their national interests." He was asked about polls showing that 50% of Americans support an American action against Iran if it continues to develop nuclear weapons, and 42% support a similar action against Syria if it supports Iran.
Syria's the more likely recipient of the attention. Iran appears to be edging away, however reluctantly, from its more belligerent positions. That could turn around, as Khamenei and Rafsanjani and their supporters regain their nerve â mermories aren't long.
Speaking at an Israeli Management Center forum in Tel Aviv, Gen. Gilad said that all the important international terror organizations in the world have command centers in Damascus. "The collapse of the Iraqi regime removes Syria's strategic base, and causes Syria to be isolated â especially with the U.S. discovering, to its astonishment, the tight cooperation between Saddam Hussein and [Syrian dictator] Bashar Assad," according to Ittim News Agency's summation of Gilad's words.
It did come as a surprise. I never realized they were lovers...
He's making a list, checking it twice, dah dah dah da da dum de dumm dummm
Posted by: Tadderly ||
04/10/2003 09:07 am ||
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18 July 2001
Award of Rank to Brig. Gen. Amos Gilad
Change of The Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories
Brig. Gen. Amos Gilad was appointed to the position of the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories today, and he was awarded the rank of Major General in a ceremony in the presence of the Minister of Defense, Mr. Benjamin Ben-Eliezer, the Deputy Defense Minister, Ms. Dalia Rabin-Philosoph, the CEO of the Ministry of Defense, Maj. Gen. (Res.) Amos Yaron, and the Chief of the IDF General Staff Lt. Gen. Shaul Mofaz.
Maj. Gen. Amos Gilad, who served in his last position as the Head of the Research Division in the Intelligence Directorate, will replace Maj. Gen. Ya'akov (Mendi) Or, who will retire from the IDF.
Murat, I'm surprised you missed this one... "Scientists" believe that the bombing of Iraq may speed up geotectonic processes... Follow the link to subject yourselves to the whole BS article.
Posted by: Bulldog ||
04/10/2003 07:20 am ||
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#1
See? It wasn't about the oiiiiilll.....it was our nefarious plot to make Russia tremble (literally). Our perfidy knows no bounds. Bwahahahahah!
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/10/2003 12:22 Comments ||
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Iraq's U.N. ambassador, Mohammed Aldouri, said on Wednesday "the game is over" and he hoped the Iraqi people soon would be able to live in peace... On March 27, he said the United States, Britain and Australia were "about to start a real war of extermination that will kill everyone and destroy everything," prompting U.S. Ambassador John Negroponte to walk out of the Security Council chambers. But [al-Douri] was liked personally among many colleagues. Well, gee whiz, a mendacious enabler of a brutal, murderous dictatorship - but hey, other than that, a hell of a nice guy.
Give me a break, and please throw this piece of shit out of my country. He's stinkin' up the joint. Have the NYPD pick his sorry, bad-haired ass up and shove him on the first flight outta Dodge. Coach class. Destination: I don't give a damn.
Posted by: mojo ||
04/10/2003 01:25 am ||
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#3
Select the part you want hilited and click the "hilite" button. ;)
Also I posted this yesterday ;)
Posted by: sonic ||
04/10/2003 2:04 Comments ||
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#4
Yeah, but if mojo hadn't posted it again, I never would have seen it. There is no harm done by posting the same article more than once, now is there? Try ratcheting down the condescension a notch, sonicpunke. ;P
#8
I'm afraid we'll have to deal with the antics of Captain Combover until a new government is in place, and his replacement can be cleared by some silly council. It's a good thing the UN runs so efficiently, eh?? Ineffectual bunch of ... ::grumble grumble::
#9
According to the BBC, it's Destination: Amsterdam. No word on why, or if that's his final destination. AFP is saying that "he would not be allowed to set foot on French soil." The weasels turn on the rats, apparently.
A retired FBI agent was arrested Wednesday on charges he repeatedly allowed his Chinese screw-chick lover, who was allegedly also a double agent working for the Peoples Republic of China, to have access to sensitive documents in his briefcase. James Smith, 59, of Westlake Village, Calif., was charged with incomprehensible gross negligence in handling government documents although there was no evidence he knowingly allowed classified material to be passed on to China by Katrina Leung, a 49-year-old San Marino woman who had been an "asset" under Smith's control for around 20 years. "Smith routinely doinked debriefed Leung at her residence and on occasion took classified documents there and left them unattended," the FBI said in an affidavit supporting the arrests. "Leung surreptitiously photocopied some of them, and documents she obtained in this manner have been recovered from her residence." This doesn't constitute "knowingly allowed"????
Leung was charged with obtaining a classified document with intention of passing it to a foreign nation. Investigators said a search of her home late last year turned up documents summarizing her alleged telephone communications with someone in the Chinese intelligence services that involved a "secret" 1997 FBI report on Chinese fugitives that included information from a confidential bureau source. Prosecutors said Leung admitted to passing on the FBI material to her handlers in the Chinese Ministry of State Security. Leung was active in Los Angeles-area Chinese-American circles and had known contacts with the Beijing government. She helped organize a 1999 reception for visiting Chinese Premier Zhu Rongji. Good grief, Smitty, what did you think the odds were of her passing the stuff in your briefcase to them?
Prosecutors alleged that Smith had been told by fellow agents in the 1990s that Leung was having unauthorized contact with China, but he assured them the problem had been addressed and continued visiting her home with unlocked briefcase in hand. He'll shortly star in a new movie, Mr. smith goes to Marion, Illinois. It'll play for the next twenty years.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/10/2003 01:09 am ||
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#1
Hmm. At 59 + 20, he won't have to worry about what he's going to be doing for retirement eh?
#3
A little googling turned up this...
"High praises for Ambassador Li Dao-yu from mcee Katrina Leung"
http://www.cis.umassd.edu/~gleung/nacaf/nax38.jpg
Is this THE Katrina Leung?
from page http://www.cis.umassd.edu/~gleung/nacaf/nb9a.html
Also, here is a news story in which KL poo-poos the posibilty of a man being a chicom spy.
     "If China needed a good agent, why would it turn to someone who doesn't know the United States and doesn't speak English well?" asked Leung, who has worked with Sioeng on numerous community events. She said Sioeng is so wealthy that nobody could afford to hire him.
The newly appointed Palestinian prime minister delayed naming his government Wednesday because of a dispute with Yasser Arafat over who should be in charge of the region's security forces. Heh, I wonder what the dispute is about.
Prime minister-designate Mahmoud Abbas' delay came amid renewed violence, as five Palestinians, including a 16-year-old boy, were killed during clashes with Israeli troops in the Gaza Strip. On Thursday, two Israelis were killed in a shooting attack near the settlement of Bekaot in the northern West Bank, the army said. Soldiers fatally shot the two gunmen, who apparently were Esquimaux Palestinians, military officials said on condition of anonymity. Apparently? If they weren't wearing mukluks I think we can safely guess who these two hard boys were.
The choice for the post of interior minister could determine the credibility of a new government, which Western mediators and Israel hope will crack down on Palestinian militants. Abbas favors former Gaza strongman Mohammed Dahlan, who also is backed by international mediators and is seen as likely to try to rein in militants. So that he can put his own thugs in charge, of course.
Arafat wants to retain his longtime aide Hani al-Hassan, who has served as interior minister for months but has made no serious move toward reforms. But he's Yasser's boy! Doesn't that count for something?
Forming the new Cabinet is a condition for the publication of a U.S.-backed ``road map'' to Palestinian statehood. Arafat said a new Cabinet likely would be named by Saturday, despite the extension. Otherwise he'll just kill Abbas and take charge.
Abbas asked Arafat on Wednesday for a two-week extension and Arafat agreed, said Arafat flack aide Nabil Abu Rdeneh. Abbas had been expected to name the Cabinet on Thursday. In an apparent reflection of the incoming premier's positive image, Abbas and Arafat met Wednesday with German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer, the first senior government minister to visit Arafat since Israel destroyed most of his compound last year. Birds of a feather. Joschka may want to forget his Red past, but we won't.
Israel had urged Fischer not to meet with the Palestinian leader. Israel and the United States have refused to meet with Arafat, charging that he is implicated in terrorism. Fischer said Germany supported the road map, which calls for statehood by 2005 and was developed several months ago by the so-called ``Quartet'' of the United States, the European Union, Russia and the United Nations. Wonder if Abbas has been watching TV lately?
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/10/2003 12:41 am ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
