Three suspected terrorists were killed in Afghanistan over the weekend when a bomb they were trying to plant under a bridge in the east of the country exploded by mistake. It's that red wire/black wire thing again.
The remote-controlled bomb exploded Sunday at al-Tamur, on the main road from Kabul to the eastern town of Gardez, said Gen. Atiqullah Uddin, a military commander speaking by satellite phone from Gardez. Two of the men planting the device died in the blast, while a third man succumbed to severe wounds after being treated at a local hospital. The bridge was damaged, but cars were still able to move around it, Uddin said. The three men comprised one of 17 suspected terrorist teams local authorities are hunting down in several provinces in southeastern Afghanistan, Uddin said, adding that each group was being paid $50,000 to carry out such operations. It was not known who was paying them. Let's see, who's got that much money to throw around?
On the eastern outskirts of Kabul, coalition troops on Monday found a homemade bomb that failed to detonate, U.S. military spokesman Col. Rodney Davis told reporters at Bagram Air Base.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/17/2003 10:09 am ||
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#1
Above article to be read to the tune of "Baby, what a big Surprise!" by Chicago
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
06/17/2003 16:50 Comments ||
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#2
You put da lime in de coconut and shake it all up..........
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/17/2003 17:38 Comments ||
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#3
Wonder if the Taliban have a Workers' Compensation Board that investigates these sorts of accidents. Also wouldn't want to work for them if they did not provide some sort of insurance. Hazardous job I tell ya.
SPIN BOLDAK: Taleban fighters in Afghanistan have threatened to launch suicide attacks against US and British troops and Afghan government officials in revenge for a big defeat this month. The threat came in leaflets distributed in southeastern Afghanistan that also urged people to back the Taleban and not cooperate with the US-backed government. "A suicide force of Taliban Mujahideen has been formed to take the revenge for Taleban martyrs," the Taleban said, according to a copy of the leaflet seen in the border town of Spin Boldak Monday. Mujahideen are Muslim holy warriors.
And Dire Revenge⢠is seemingly an Islamic requirement.
"They will start non-stop suicide attacks on senior Afghan officials and American and British forces," it added. A former Afghan intelligence official, Mullah Abdul Samad, said he believed the leaflets were genuine and had been distributed by the Taleban. The leaflets referred to a battle on June 4 northeast of Spin Boldak, in which up to 40 Taleban fighters were killed by government forces. Meanwhile, terrorists, whose activities were previously concentrated along the border with Pakistan, were now infiltrating Afghanistan's capital to carry out attacks, a spokesman for he international peacekeeping force in Kabul said Monday.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
06/17/2003 08:50 am ||
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#1
a sign of desperation to be relevant - suicide bombers
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/17/2003 9:46 Comments ||
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#4
a sign of desperation to be relevant - suicide bombers
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/17/2003 9:46 Comments ||
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#5
Why would you forewarn your adversary about your guerilla tactics. Either this is diversion, or like the Black Knight in The Holy Grail the Taleban only has inflaming rhetoric left.
#7
CC..."Doesn't that sound like a planet or star in the Star Wars saga?"
Sounds more like a bounty hunter...maybe Boba Fett's right hand guy, y'know?
Time for some Marines to validate their marksmanship awards...put a bounty on morons in boom-belts with increments as the distance from the splodey-dopes target goes up.
Security officers in Sanaâa were able Thursday evening to foil a blast attempt near Hadda hotel where some Americans and Westerners resided. Reliable sources told Yemen Times that some security officers found by mere chance explosive material in a sack planted in the area between Hadda hotel and the resident complex where some US individuals and security officials live. The security forces contacted some explosives experts who came immediately and were able to foil the terrorist attempt. Security measures have been intensified in the area ever since. Three taxi drivers who were in the location but they were later released upon concluding that they had nothing to do with the attempt.
"You guys see anything suspicious?"
"This is Yemen, fergawdsake! Everybody's suspicious!"
"Uhuh. Whaddya think, sarge?"
"Damned suspicious, if you ask me!"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
06/17/2003 02:08 pm ||
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In Yemen that could be someone's grocery sack
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/17/2003 15:43 Comments ||
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The Criminal Court set July 14, 2003, to issue a verdict in the case of Dr Hakem Al-Mutairi, Secretary-General of the Salafi Movement, accused of giving a statement to London-based Al-Hayat newspaper in which he accused the State Security Department (SSD) personnel of torturing citizens and violating human rights. The SSD considered this a sharp criticism and accused Dr Hakem of spreading rumours, causing harm to Kuwait and instilling fear among citizens during wartime. Lawyer for Dr Hakem, attorney Nawaf Sari Al-Mutairi, said his client was earlier tried and acquitted by both the Criminal Court and the Court of Appeals in a similar case for issuing a similar statement. He contended, âIf this statement was published in all local and other newspapers, tens of cases would have been filed against Dr Hakem." He told the court, âthe statement was issued by the Salafi Movement, and not specifically by Dr Hakem."
"Nope. Wudn't me. It was all of us."
The lawyer further told the court the statement issued by the Salafi Movement expresses the thought of the movement and according to the Kuwaiti Constitution, every citizen is free to express his point of view as long as no harm is done to anyone. âThe statement of the Salafi Movement was issued based on actual facts quoted by the media and the National Assembly's Human Rights Committee report which had said some violations had been committed by the SSD personnel against some citizens," said the lawyer. Attorney Al-Mutairi told the court the Salafi Movement wanted to address the National Assembly and the leaders of this nation to bring to book persons responsible for these violations. Attorney Al-Mutairi further explained, according to the Constitution, Kuwait can only be in a state of war if an Amiri decree has been issued in this regard and if the country is involved in military operations against a neighbouring country. He requested the court to drop the charge of spreading rumours during 'wartime'.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
06/17/2003 01:54 pm ||
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JPost - Reg Req'd
Just days after denying that there was any Holocaust inside Romania's borders, the government on Tuesday acknowledged that the country's former leaders participated in the Holocaust during World War II by deporting and exterminating Romanian Jews.
The government's earlier denial sparked a storm of criticism, outraging Romanian Jews and straining the country's relations with Israel.
Its statement Tuesday acknowledged that the government "was guilty of grave war crimes, pogroms, and mass deportations of Romanian Jews to territories occupied or controlled by the Romanian army" from 1940 to 1944.
The pro-Nazi Romanian regime employed "methods of discrimination and extermination, which are part of the Holocaust," the statement added.
The government said Prime Minister Adrian Nastase and his Cabinet consistently had condemned the wartime persecution and killing of Jews, but did it not explain why it changed its view since Friday, when it claimed that "within the borders of Romania between 1940 and 1945 there was no Holocaust."
Romania was home to 760,000 Jews before World War II. More than half of them were killed during the war. More than 20,000 Romanian Gypsies also died after being deported to camps.
Most victims died after being deported to the areas in the former Soviet Union, where Romania's pro-Nazi dictator, Ion Antonescu, ran concentration camps.
About 130,000 Romanian Jews died after being deported by Hungarian authorities who temporarily ruled parts of Romania.
Large-scale pogroms took place in the northeast city of Iasi in 1941, when over 10,000 Jews were killed by Romanian and German soldiers, according to historians.
President Ion Iliescu on Tuesday criticized the government's initial Holocaust denial, saying that it reopened a "useless debate." He added that though some Romanians took part in the Holocaust, the persecutions of Jews in Romania were not on the same scale as in Germany.
After the war, Romania has been slow to come to terms with its past, with many Romanians still refusing to believe Romanian authorities killed Jews during World War II.
Last year, Romania outlawed fascist and xenophobic organizations and symbols, and a monument honoring Holocaust victims was erected with government support.
Critics said the moves were part of a drive to secure American support for Romania's NATO bid.
Authorities also have ordered the removal of statues and other monuments honoring Antonescu. Some were erected as recently as 2000.
Denial ain't just a river in Egypt
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/17/2003 06:10 pm ||
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Via Best Of The Web on WSJ
MARSEILLE, France (Reuters) - City cleaners are spraying streets in the French port of Marseille with lemon grass perfume to get rid of the stench from piles of rubbish that have been festering under a hot sun for two weeks.
Refuse collectors returned to work Tuesday after a 14-day strike over pension reforms and city cleaners were battling to clear up an estimated 8,000 tonnes of garbage whose stench has attracted rats in droves.
"It's been awful. The smell has been unbearable and the streets were disgusting with rotting rubbish strewn all over them. Life hasn't been very easy," said a spokeswoman at the municipal services department of Marseille Town Hall.
"We occasionally add a bit of lemongrass to disinfecting products when cleaning up after an outdoor market, but this time we're adding it in much bigger doses and using it everywhere."
"It's a gentle, hygienic smell and it doesn't cause problems for asthmatics in hot weather like some products," she added.
Residents of Marseille, swelteringly hot this month, grew so furious at the inescapable pong that they set rubbish heaps ablaze, keeping firemen working round the clock.
France has been hit by a wave of public sector strikes this month over the center-right government's plans to make people work longer before they can claim a state pension.
Welcome to Chiracville
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/17/2003 03:51 pm ||
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#1
So when are the cleaners going on strike over having to clean all this stuff up from the last strike?
"Lemongrass. Manly, yes. And the rats love it too!"
#3
So when are the cleaners going on strike over having to clean all this stuff up from the last strike?
"Lemongrass. Manly, yes. And the rats love it too!"
ROME, June 17 â Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi told France on Tuesday it should ''shut up'' about his Middle East policy, further straining relations with Paris just as Italy is preparing to take over the European Union presidency.
''They missed a good opportunity to shut up,'' Berlusconi told reporters in response to French criticism of his decision not to meet Palestinian leaders during a recent trip to Israel.
Nice echo of Chirac telling the eastern European countries that they should shut up.
French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin (who is a man [tm LGF])said this week that Berlusconi had ''not satisfied the European position'' by holding talks only with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon during his June 9 visit to Jerusalem.
''I went (to Israel) as the prime minister of Italy. There's no way France can issue criticism over something that was the sole right and responsibility of the Italian prime minister,'' Berlusconi said, clearly bristling with irritation.
But isn't offering criticism of something that's none of their business a requirement for French citizenship?
[...]
However, mutual irritation between the two countries has been evident ever since Berlusconi's centre-right government took power in 2001, with Rome officials accusing Paris of arrogance in its dealings with Italy.
Arrogance?? Mon dieu!
Diplomats fear the growing rancour could come to the fore when Italy assumes the six-month, rotating EU presidency in July and represents the 15-nation bloc on the international stage.
We can only hope.
Speaking just hours after defending himself from corruption charges in a Milan court, Berlusconi said on Tuesday Sharon had invited him to go to Israel and added that he planned to meet the Palestinian prime minster shortly.
Fine, he's corrupt. But Chirac is worse.
''Any prime minister can choose to accept or not accept an invitation and no one, absolutely no one, I say no one, has the right to take issue with that,'' Berlusconi told a joint news conference with Greek Prime Minister Costas Simitis.
Except the French, of course. Meanwhile, I hear Spain and Italy are lovely spots for a vacation these days.
#1
Just speculating (of course) but if East Germany hadn't had West Germany to fall into like a child coming home from a bad year away at college, I bet we could say that ALL of the former communist countries would agree with Bush. The Easties have been spared the tough decisions, society-wise, since the West Germans ate the big one absorbing all their pain. Still, they bitch.....
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/17/2003 20:33 Comments ||
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#2
For crissakes, just change it to the French Union and get it over with, willya? Knock off the "we give a shit about the rest of Europe" act.
Yeah, as long as they do what they're told.
#3
Berlusconi has some cojones! I'm liking Italy better and better.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
06/17/2003 16:12 Comments ||
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#4
I believe the correct term is testicoli.
Posted by: Mike ||
06/17/2003 16:30 Comments ||
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#5
I've visited both Frawnce and Italy, and prefer the Italian venue any day. The people are much friendlier, the food is just as good, and if you travel in late April or early May, it's hot enough to go to the beach, but not so hot it's uncomfortable. The prices are also lower!
Berlusconi has brought pride back to Italy, and the people are responding. Italy can no longer be considered anyone's whipping boy. Even their Air Force is improving...
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
06/17/2003 16:31 Comments ||
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#6
Berlusconi (or Blair) should get together the heads of the Liberty loving nations in Europe and form a political block within the EU and make sure the French/German/Belgium axis can't ram things down everyone's throat.
#7
OK folks, no more jokes about Italian tanks. They are starting to get their act together. Jeeze Louise! France, though is another story. They are going down and I feel that it would be humorous if it was not so tragic.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/17/2003 17:45 Comments ||
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#8
You know Frank, when someone uses the phrase "New Europe" (or for that matter "Old Europe") he's only betraying his own ignorance. By what kind of criterion, for god's sake, is a country like Poland any "newer" than a country like Belgium or Luxembourg?
"Berlusconi (or Blair) should get together the heads of the Liberty loving nations in Europe and form a political block within the EU and make sure the French/German/Belgium axis can't ram things down everyone's throat."
Liberty-loving nations as opposed to the non-liberty loving nations... Hah.
I'm afraid you'll find that tactical alliances based on disagreement with someone tend to not last very long. The disagreeing parties will only end up disagreeing among themselves before long.
Berlusconi played a very duplicitous role during the Iraq crisis, on the one hand going "America yay", on the other hand not doing anything to support it (Any Italian military in Iraq? Didn't think so), on the *third* hand saying that EU should enlarge to include Russia, Turkey and Israel, so that the military strength of these countries be used to created a pole opposed to America...
Berlusconi is what a stereotypical Induan would call "a man with a forked tongue". Don't trust him. Don't like him. No matter which side you are on. He only goes where he feels the wind is blowing, and he'd doublecross any cause in a second.
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/17/2003 19:10 Comments ||
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#13
Aris you obviously never have been to Eastern Europe during the Communist days. Eastern Europe when it emerged from that disease was 50 years behind Western Europe. They have finally now caught up in appearance, and are almost there with other things. Hence Rumsfeld's phrase was an accurate description. But in order to not to offend you Aris, I agree he should have used the less provocative (and totally wimpish) "new and newer Europe".
#14
- on the other hand not doing anything to support it (Any Italian military in Iraq? Didn't think so) -
The Italians opened their facilities to the Americans which is more than some other [Cough!] NATO members did. They provided the base of operation for the deployment of the 173rd Airborne Bde out of Caserma Ederle, Vicenza, Italy. That opened the Iraqi Northern Front.
Considering that outside the British, no European force is able to integrate into the American Air-Land Battle Doctrine or technology, such support is far more useful then a lot of troops sitting around in the rear unable to maneuver with the main force.
Posted by: Don ||
06/17/2003 19:45 Comments ||
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RW - Except that I get the impression that "Old Europe" is never ever used to refer to Italy, UK, Spain, Portugal, etc, etc. It's only used to refer to Germany/Belgium/France/Luxembourg.
So it all ends up as this: Most of Eastern Europe is "New Europe" because it agreed with Bush, and "Old Europe" are those countries that disagreed with him. Nothing to do with the fall of communism. Just a propagandistic term.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/17/2003 20:26 Comments ||
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#17
Just speculating (of course) but if East Germany hadn't had West Germany to fall into like a child coming home from a bad year away at college, I bet we could say that ALL of the former communist countries would agree with Bush. The Easties have been spared the tough decisions, society-wise, since the West Germans ate the big one absorbing all their pain. Still, they bitch.....
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/17/2003 20:33 Comments ||
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#18
Nothing to do with the fall of communism. Just a propagandistic term.
Of course that phrase was meant to antagonize. But it was born out of the attitude of Germany/France/Belgium/Luxembourg that Chiraq so plainly aired for the world to see, and which continues to this day. Rumsfeld hit the nail on the head with "New Europe". There's no other way to describe Eastern Europe. Stop being so jealous Aris. You have new family members now, like it or not.
#19
aris - would you have preferred rummy had said "axis of weasels"????
Look at what italy and france are disagreeing about now for heavens sake - berlusconi refused to meet with Arafat, who is undermining the pece process. France refuses to distance itself from the terrorists of Hamas. Even your own govt wont follow the French on that Aris.
#21
How you can get so hung up on being called Old Europe is just beyond me frankly. That's not even an insult really. It's an accurate description. You're just twisting it into something it's not.
#22
aris - Israelis are being murdered by terrorists. Berlusconi had the guts to boycott Arafat. Straw asked europe to boycott Hamas. France refuses to boycott Hamas. France attacks Berlusconi for boycotting arafat. And all you care about is Rummys choice of language, and the ages of european countries?
#23
Christ in Heaven,Aris!
What is with your blind loyalty to terroist loving France?
Why are you pissed that Brlusconi throws Chiraq's words back in his face,but have no problem throwing Rummie's words back at him?
New Euorpe/Old Euorpe:
New Euorpe=ex-Sovit Empire
Old Euorpe=ex-Nato allies
I don't include Germany and Italy in my disgust and condemnation because they have proven to be good friends and allies to the U.S.
Where as France has proven they will screw the U.S. every chance they get.
FYI:Speaking as someone who's Grandmothers(both sides of my family)are Native Americans it is Indians and not pc at that.
EFL
It is a simple request: smile more. But it is at the heart of a wide-ranging campaign by French officials to win back American tourists and their dollars so important to France's economy.
Recent posters on display in Paris depict Mona Lisa, one of the Louvre's most famous possessions, with a small alteration: her mysterious smile is underlined by another, much like the "smiley face" ubiquitous in America. Tourism officials in Paris are hopeful that 6,000 such renderings promoting the "Bonjour Campaign" will encourage hotel clerks, waiters, bus drivers and metro employees to be nicer and more helpful to tourists. Its key missive: to smile more. Oh yeah, that'll work
The French are convinced that the U.S. perception that they â particularly Parisians â are unfriendly to Americans has added to the tourism decline caused by France's position on the war with Iraq. On a beautiful June day in Paris, as a cloudless blue sky looks down on familiar tourist attractions, it is clear something is different. At the Eiffel Tower, along the Champs Elysees and at the Cathedral of Notre Dame, there are Japanese, German and British tourists â but few Americans.
"I think they're staying at home," a young Frenchman, Rene Eskengren, said. "Don't you think so?" We just decided to visit our friends.
It would appear so: so far this year there are 25 percent fewer Americans visiting France than a year ago. And a recent study for a large travel agency found that France had slipped from the No. 2 destination for American travelers to No. 17. The reason cited is mainly France's position on Iraq. Bwahahahaha!!
It has been a rude awakening for French officials. "I think they're shocked," said Adam Gopnik, who reported for six years from Paris for The New Yorker magazine. Gopnik said the French believe their position on Iraq was one of principle, and was not driven by anti-Americanism or resentment of the United States. The French are not only shocked, but hurt, he told ABCNEWS. "There's also this feeling of rejection, of being misunderstood and being maligned unfairly. Oh, we understand all right.
"If you're gonna hate France, hate Canada because Canada and France shared exactly the same policy on this particular issue." Umm,, OK.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/17/2003 01:20 pm ||
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#1
I don't need any convincing to hate Canada. In fact, While I still like my Britsh girfriend, I'm going to start hating to my French-Canadian girlfriend twice as much as before.
I don't remember the Cans going around to Security Council nations and pushing them to vote against us.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
06/17/2003 13:36 Comments ||
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#2
And a recent study for a large travel agency found that France had slipped from the No. 2 destination for American travelers to No. 17.
Behind Ciudad Juarez, but ahead of Burundi.
"If you're gonna hate France, hate Canada because Canada and France shared exactly the same policy on this particular issue." AND " ... the French believe their position on Iraq was one of principle, and was not driven by anti-Americanism or resentment of the United States.
O.k., then in that same line of rationale, our hate is based on principle and not on anti-French feelings or resentment.
#4
This is great. Put on some bullshit act of how they like us, they REALLY, REALLY like us! That'll get the stupide Americains back here to be gouged! They'll buy that!
As a compromise maybe they should just ask us to send our money over. That's the only thing they want from us anyways. Unless the Germans are in town again.
#5
Old Patriot, I would love to have Canadian provinces join the union (if they really wanted to) but Isn't the right in Canada to the left of the Democrats? Wouldn't such a move shift American politics leftward.
#6
Mike N, I got the translation from http://translation2.paralink.com/: Pourquoi vous n'allez pas le jeu (la pièce) "se cache et va vous baisent" ? I don't speak French but the Spanish translations have been right on.
#7
I think a few more smiles from some smelly frogs, combined with words of kindness from Woody Allen( whos face looks more and more like a rhinos vulva) is all it will take to get me to spend my hard earned dough in France, right after I decide to vote for Gray Davis for president!
#8
So like the French! They put an ITALIAN painting on display to show the French like Americans. Don't tell - let's just all show up in Florence, where the artist who painted the Mona Lisa spent much of his life.
The French, primarily the Parisians and other big-city arrogant slobs, have no idea how much we loathe and despise them for their duplicity, outright lies, and total self-centered arrogance. There are people in Brittany, Normandy, Alsace, and a few other parts of France that are probably wishing they could all join Italy or Great Britain, and leave France on the dungheap of history, where it belongs.
As for the Canadians, everyone I know, from Ontario west and in the Maritime Provinces, are seriously considering ousting Quebec and its French-Canadian misplaced feeling of superiority. If what's-his-face, the French-Canadian Prime Minister, doesn't watch his step, Quebeck will be all that's left of Canada, as the other provinces decide to unite with the US. We will welcome them gladly, and with the dignity they deserve.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
06/17/2003 16:40 Comments ||
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#9
Old Patriot, I would love to have Canadian provinces join the union (if they really wanted to) but Isn't the right in Canada to the left of the Democrats? Wouldn't such a move shift American politics leftward.
#10
Yank & OP - The provinces would never go for it. We'd insist that they be territories for at least 20-30 years before granting statehood, just like all the others. That'd mean 20-30 years of being ruled by Washington, an appointed governor, and US troops. Joining the Union is not like opening a credit card account - it is irrevocable, a point we had a nasty little civil war over.
#12
I nominate the Yukon Territory to become Alaska-Yukon State. It would round out the shape of Alaska better. They are great, industrious people there.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/17/2003 18:01 Comments ||
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#13
I don't need any convincing to hate Canada. In fact, While I still like my Britsh girfriend, I'm going to start hating to my French-Canadian girlfriend twice as much as before.
I don't remember the Cans going around to Security Council nations and pushing them to vote against us.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
06/17/2003 13:36 Comments ||
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#14
How do you say "Why don't you go play hide-and-go-fuck-yourself" in French?
Posted by: Mike N. ||
06/17/2003 13:38 Comments ||
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#15
And a recent study for a large travel agency found that France had slipped from the No. 2 destination for American travelers to No. 17.
Behind Ciudad Juarez, but ahead of Burundi.
"If you're gonna hate France, hate Canada because Canada and France shared exactly the same policy on this particular issue." AND " ... the French believe their position on Iraq was one of principle, and was not driven by anti-Americanism or resentment of the United States.
O.k., then in that same line of rationale, our hate is based on principle and not on anti-French feelings or resentment.
#18
This is great. Put on some bullshit act of how they like us, they REALLY, REALLY like us! That'll get the stupide Americains back here to be gouged! They'll buy that!
As a compromise maybe they should just ask us to send our money over. That's the only thing they want from us anyways. Unless the Germans are in town again.
#21
I guess the easiest way to tell if this drop is a result of a decline in the dollar would be to see what the other destinations on that list is. I wouldn't be surprised if Spain and Australia had a similar change, but in the opposite direction.
#22
So that liquid on our shoes is the result of a gentle Parisian shower?
Posted by: Matt ||
06/17/2003 14:23 Comments ||
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#23
Mjh,
The Euro is strong against the yen, but trade hasn't suffered to the same degree with Japan.
The French have been projectile-vomiting into American faces for years. The ingrates can dish it out, but not take it.
Posted by: Ernest Brown ||
06/17/2003 14:42 Comments ||
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#24
Mojo - Texas didn't wait for 20 to 30 years as a territory of the United States. It was independent and then worked for union. If the western portion of Canada went first independent and maneuvered their laws, money, and trade to mesh with those of the US, they wouldn't have to wait long either.
Posted by: Don ||
06/17/2003 19:51 Comments ||
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#25
No friggin' way! You guys have G-U-N-S over there. It's even worse than SARS. Everybody's carrying.
The problem with Quebec leaving is, that's where Canada's high-tech companies are. Sort of like if Silicon Valley wanted to separate (bad example?).
Should Quebec separate, the rest of Canada would disintegrate soon. If in a Quebec-less Canada, Ontario kept forming the federal government, the western provinces would be quick to consider leaving as well. On the other coast, the Maritimes would be cut off, and the way they're pissed at Ottawa over the fishing industry, they would leave quicker than the west. New Brunswick is half French anyway.
Interestingly, during the last referendum on separation in Quebec, the Natives were getting restless too! They said if Quebec had a right to separate, so did they, and the Native territories within Quebec would separate from Quebec (which would leave Quebec about the size of New Jersey).
This leaves Ontario. And if the rest of Canada disintegrated the way I described, I don't see a problem with Ontario becoming a territory of the US. Unless someone has the bright idea and changes the name to Upper Canada with the Queen of England as head of state.
#26
For the curious, it would be "Va te faire voir chez les Grecs".
Literally translated, it means "Go make yourself seen at the Greeks' house".
Posted by: Kevin ||
06/17/2003 20:26 Comments ||
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#27
RW,and Canada's anti-gun laws really make your citezens safer(not,look at home invasion stats)if you are joking about the guns comment then a apoligise.
The"Silicon Valley of Canada"would be a minor inconvienuance at best.90% of the natural resources in Canada are in places other the Quebec.But are controlled by the Quebecios government,something that really piss'off the rest of Canada(from what I have heard).
Think I've got that right but I maybe wrong.
French police have launched a massive raid in the Paris region on the Iranian opposition group, the People's Mujahideen [Mujaheddin e-Khalq]. More than 150 people are reported to have been arrested during the operation by 1,300 police officers, on the orders of the anti-terrorist judge Jean-Louis Bruguiere. It follows a long running investigation into the activities of the People's Mujahideen, a group which has in the past been declared a terrorist organisation by Iran, the United States and the European Union. Police sources said the operation targeted some 150 people who they believe were "preparing to commit or finance acts of terrorism". French news agency AFP said police had arrested Maryam Rajavi, wife of the group's leader, Massoud Rajavi. She is seen by the People's Mujahideen as the "future president of Iran". Her brother, Saleh Rajavi, is also reported to have been arrested when police stormed the European headquarters of the National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI), Iran's main political opposition umbrella group. A large quantity of money and computer equipment is also reported to have been seized in the raids in the Val d'Oise region north of Paris and in the Yvelines region to the west. Spokesman for the People's Mujahideen, Ali Safavi, told AFP the "allegations are absolutely preposterous". He said People's Mujahideen personnel had been living in France for many years "and there has been no problem. Wherever they are, they are absolutely not involved in illegal activities in their host country." He accused France of "trying to curry favour with the Islamic government in Iran" and said the arrests were part of a "concerted conspiracy" between the two governments. "Currying favor" with brutal dictatorships is a French tradition. Look at Zim-Bob-Wee.
The EU declared the People's Mujahideen a terrorist organisation in May last year, but this is the first time that the French authorities have moved to detain its members.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/17/2003 08:54 am ||
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Why is it that a dictatorship has to label a group as terrorists before France will do anything? Don't get me wrong, they've done the right thing in this case. But, they'll take down these guys, and try to justify Hamas.
Does that make sense to anyone but the French?
Posted by: Mike N. ||
06/17/2003 9:12 Comments ||
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#2
The MEK uncovered the existence of the Iranian nuke facilities last year in Natanz and Arak. Just last month they discovered two small nuke labs connected to the facility in Natanz.
Also, Iran told the Australians last month that they would not be willing to hand over any Qa'ida boys, much less identify exactly who they have in custody, to the US, including Saif al-Adel, unless the US delivered Massoud Rajavi to them.
Posted by: Robert ||
06/17/2003 18:47 Comments ||
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#3
Why is it that a dictatorship has to label a group as terrorists before France will do anything? Don't get me wrong, they've done the right thing in this case. But, they'll take down these guys, and try to justify Hamas.
Does that make sense to anyone but the French?
Posted by: Mike N. ||
06/17/2003 9:12 Comments ||
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#4
What, did they run out of crippled, 80-year-old Bitish veterans? God forbid they might zap a striking socialist or two. (Not that I'm a fan of the zapees in this case, just tired of the French in general.)
#5
I just want to know if they smiled as they were rounding them all up? Don't want to jeopardize that Iranian tourist buck."Bonjour!Into ze wagone wit you..."
#6
The MEK uncovered the existence of the Iranian nuke facilities last year in Natanz and Arak. Just last month they discovered two small nuke labs connected to the facility in Natanz.
Also, Iran told the Australians last month that they would not be willing to hand over any Qa'ida boys, much less identify exactly who they have in custody, to the US, including Saif al-Adel, unless the US delivered Massoud Rajavi to them.
Posted by: Robert ||
06/17/2003 18:47 Comments ||
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WASHINGTON - In a June 15 story about the search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, The Associated Press reported erroneously that two-thirds of Americans said the administration exaggerated the weapons threat. The poll by CBS News found that 44 percent of Americans believe the administration overestimated the extent of Iraq's weapons stores, and that two-thirds of those people felt the administration exaggerated the threat from those weapons.
...erroneously... That's rich. Should be "erroneously".
Paul Krugman went nuts today - a regular happening - with his NYT column "Dereliction of Duty". "Krugman Truth Squad Member" Donald Luskin tears into Krugman's column:
Krugman's vitriolic hatred for the Bush administration has created perhaps America's most dishonest and irrational liberal pundit. (Though that's a tough call given the crowded field of candidates just at the New York Times and Los Angeles Times.)
In this vein, please enjoy "The Ballad of Paul Krugman" as penned by one Eric Lindholm and posted at Viking Pundit:
The Ballad of Paul Krugman
(sung to âI Am the Very Model of a Modern Major-Generalâ by Gilbert & Sullivan)
I am the very model of a New York Times columnist
The facts are inconvenient, my opinion is the very best
So listen very carefully as I pronounce with biased zest
I am the very model of a New York Times columnist
Iâm blind to every transgression by leftist, Green, or Democrats
I love a larger government, enamored by more bureaucrats
So Iâll encourage statism and ignore every Clinton tryst
I am the very model of a New York Times columnist
The government exists to generate brand-new entitlements
So raise those taxes high, take all the dollars, nickels, dimes and cents
And Iâll be sure to vilify those like Hastert, Delay and Frist
I am the very model of a New York Times columnist
On issues foreign policy, my views are academical
Republicans starting wars are treasonous and heretical
Unless you are a Democrat, Iâm strictly isolationist
I am the very model of a New York Times columnist
The war upon Iraq will be a failure âtil we find anthrax
I donât care âbout those mass graves or the stories of Saddamâs attacks
Donât want to hear about the rape, the torture and his iron fist
I am the very model of a New York Times columnist
Iâm full of moral vanity and my virtue is beyond review
Iâm blind to my own prejudice and operate without a clue
With Bush there in the White House, Iâm an eternal pessimist
I am the very model of a New York Times columnist
Posted by: ColoradoConservative ||
06/17/2003 11:54 am ||
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#1
Bravo! Let's have one on Maureen Dowd now. She's as plump of a target for musical satire as Krugman.
(Edited)
President Bush, visiting a frozen pasta business in New Jersey on Monday to tout the tax cut passed last month, also took the opportunity to express his impatience with nagging criticism over the war against Iraq. "This nation acted to a threat from the dictator of Iraq. Now, there are some who would like to rewrite history â 'revisionist historians' is what I like to call them," Bush said I just call them Democrats myself
Members of the Senate Intelligence Committee announced this weekend that it will investigate charges of exaggerated intelligence. The House Intelligence panel has already announced its own inquiry. Hearings, probably behind closed doors, will include questioning of intelligence analysts about their work. While they are at it they can question the UN's inspectors, the French, the Germans, the Russians, and the Chinese. They all thought he had them too. People have short memories, especially when there is an election around the corner....
Though the aide said the president does not resent the idea of a congressional investigation, Bush asserted that the United States went to war to respond to a very real threat. "Saddam Hussein was a threat to America and the free world in '91, in '98, in 2003. He continually ignored the demands of the free world, so the United States and friends and allies acted," Bush said. "And this is for certain: Saddam Hussein is no longer a threat to the United States and our friends and allies."
Posted by: Secret Master ||
06/17/2003 11:40 am ||
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I hope that last comment doesn't come back and bite the President, and us, in the ass.
#2
Intelligence indicated the Third Reich was trying to develop an atomic bomb during WWII. After we defeated the Nazi's, we discovered they weren't as far along as we thought. I suppose today's Dem's would have to question FDR and Truman's ability to tell the truth about WMD. Frankly I wish there was more intelligence to be found sitting on these congressional committees.
Posted by: G-Man in Chicago ||
06/17/2003 13:32 Comments ||
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I tried to explain what a deeply discredited word this is. Take it from a "revisionist" who learned it the hard way.
#5
TGA...and the reason the Stalinists accused their victims of "revisionism" was that all time favorite of the left PROJECTION! Accuse tour enemy of the crime YOU are commiting. The left has gotten as far as it has in the States EXACTLY by revising (or attempting to revise) History. You see it in textbooks, on the History Channel, in the Smithsonian. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, TGA, and I will not amend my vocabulary because a criminal happened to misuse a word as a smokescreen.
#8
Intelligence indicated the Third Reich was trying to develop an atomic bomb during WWII. After we defeated the Nazi's, we discovered they weren't as far along as we thought. I suppose today's Dem's would have to question FDR and Truman's ability to tell the truth about WMD. Frankly I wish there was more intelligence to be found sitting on these congressional committees.
Posted by: G-Man in Chicago ||
06/17/2003 13:32 Comments ||
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Flogging the WMD angle and then not finding much of anything could wind up being Dubya's "read my lips."
While I was resigned to this war and don't miss Sammy one iota, the administration crying out that there was a clear and present danger just falls in line with their yanking of people's collective chains. They're now paying the price in credibility.
#10
RE: WMD. If the will, means, and motive are there, then the threat is there. It would irresponsible of our govt to ignore the threat. The WMD is another dagger probe by the left to stick it to our govt and esp the Bush administration to bring us down. The implications of WMD are so serious that preemption is ugly but necessary. I do not see any volunteers on the left willing to have their community nuked, contaminated with NBC, etc, so they can be the one sacrifical lamb to end the problem (in their perception).
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/17/2003 14:12 Comments ||
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Hiryu,
The only people with a credibility problem are the leftists who were screaming WMD for Bubba and are now trying to call our President a liar.
On another topic, as a 10 year, second generation Navy vet (and my Dad was there) I recommend you recall what happened to your namesake, as well as Soryu, Kaga, Akagi and Mikuma.
#12
Two things: 1) Iraq did have WMDs and they NEVER accounted for them. 2) Under the cease fire agreement in 1992 the UN (read U.S) has the right/obligation to force the surrendering party (Iraq) into compliance. All you need to know about WMDs and 'justification.'
Dems kiss it: (_|_)
#13
Labeling somebody a "revisionist" in Stalinist times meant this person was in for 25 years in the finest Glawnoje Uprawlenije Lagerej, better known as GULag.
Somebody should consult the president on his wording.
Btw today is June 17th. 50 years ago the first rebellion against Soviet domination was crushed with tanks... in East Germany. The brave East German workers longing for freedom were called "revisionists" too. Chose another word, Mr. Bush.
#14
TGA has a point. For example, look at the way "arrogant" has been tossed around in the last 8 months. It came from the Left to describe Bush and Co. Now bloggers are using it to describe the New York Times. I think it's an accurate description of the Raines regime (oops, another overused word), however. Let's say snotty, stuck up, and liars while describing the Times. So, I guess what the pro-war crowd should do is not use the vocabulary of the left. How about saying the Left is changing its tune, is being hypocritical, etc? "Revisionism"?
Just like the word "progressive" Jeez, all the Leftist literature I sift through at work is just full of it. Why can't the non-Left be progressive, as in wanting to make progress? Why has this word been stolen from my 1982 vocabulary? Damn progressives!
Posted by: Michael ||
06/17/2003 18:43 Comments ||
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Nobody has ever been thrown into jail for being "arrogant" or "snotty" I think. But thousands died in Siberian labor camps for being "revisionists". I know that Bush didn't mean it that way. But I think he dropped the word "crusade" as well like a hot potato. For good reasons. The connotations are just too heavy. Words kill, too.
#16
TGA - revisionist is used in leninist circles to indicate "revisions" to marxism (usually social democrats) It is widely used in non-Marxist circles in english to refer to advocates of revisionist history - anyone who wants to revise "establishment" history. There are marxist and radical revisionist historians, but also libertarians, etc. Unlike crusade its not a metaphor, but a literal application of the word, and makes as much sense in English as the Marxist sense.
BTW - to the extent that there the word DOES mean social democrats and Anti-stalinist leftists - some of the true "revisionists' in the US are IN the Bush admin, and in the neo-con wing at that - the intellectual founders of the neo-con movement were generally former social democrats, of the Shachtmanite persuasion, a group of ex-Trotskyites who went further than Trotsky in their condemnation of Stalinism.
#17
TGA - I truly sympathize with you for your past experiences. I spent 10 years of my life riding submarines to help bring the Sov's down. But maybe you should be less concerned about OUR Presidents word usage and more about the faceless drones trying to put you back in chains:
Critics allege that an NDTV press release on the news channel's Saturday interview with Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf needlessly made it sound as if Musharraf was threatening another Kargil if the peace process failed.
The release says, "Asked if he ruled out another Kargil, Musharraf said, 'No. Let me tell you that before Kargil, Kashmir was a dead issue. To avoid Kargils, we need to resolve disputes and much depends on how we proceed on the peace track'."
Critics point out this is a combination of three different statements during the course of the interview. Most strikingly, Musharraf's "No" was actually a response to the question "was Kargil a mistake?" and not "if he ruled out another Kargil."
Controversy over the press release has been further aggravated by the publication of the full transcript of the interview in the papers. Critics say that Musharraf's comments, as published, differ from what he actually said.
NDTV denies that the changes make a significant difference to the sense of the interview. Said an NDTV source: "If anyone has a problem with what NDTV quoted Musharraf as saying, they are free to see the tapes themselves. They are public property." Sounds like the NY Times farm club, hmmm?
Meanwhile, answering criticism that the government of India had reacted to the transcript and not to the interview itself, MEA officials clarified that New Delhi's response to the interview followed "several viewings" of the actual broadcast and had nothing to do with anything contained in the transcript. Sources said video clips of the interview, including the portion on Kargil, had been provided to South Block just before the actual broadcast.
Did he or didnât he?
What NDTV release says
⢠So you could have another Kargil?
Depends on how we proceed on the peace track, on how things develop. One canât say.
⢠You are not ruling it out?
Nobody can say yes, we will have another Kargil, but certainly we need to resolve disputes.
What actually went on air
⢠So you could have another Kargil?
..er..how we proceed on the peace track..er..and how things develop. One can't say..er
(P Roy interrupts) You are not ruling it out?
..a sensible answer cannot ...nobody can say yes, we will have another Kargil, but certainly we need to resolve disputes.
A LOT more measured. Mo Dowd editing these interviews?
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/17/2003 06:22 pm ||
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Long story, but informative:
IN RECENT WEEKS, most Western media have reported the continuing attacks on U.S. troops in Fallujah, west of Baghdad, as tenacious resistance by defeated Baathists, aided by local Sunni Muslims enraged at the soldiers' alleged mishandling of crowds, which has led to fatal clashes. There is mounting evidence, however, that this is not the whole story. In a piece dated June 1, the Saudi website alsaha.com, which propounds the extremist views of the kingdom's official Wahhabi sect of Islam, proudly reported the combat deaths in Fallujah of two Saudi subjects, Faisal Sultan al-Rougi al-Otabi and Tahir ash-Shoumani. The writer, Nassim al-Islam (doubtless a pseudonymâit means "wind of Islam"), adopts a tone of adulation: "Congratulations, Faisal, the color is that of blood and the scent that of musk. I wish I were with you to win great honor as a martyr."
Many of us would be happy if that happened. I hope their demises were very painful.
Meanwhile, on the ground in Iraq, Newsweek reporter Scott Johnson was also picking up signs of Saudi involvement. In a story in the June 16 issue, Johnson quotes a U.S. intelligence officer in Baghdad as saying that, increasingly, Iraqi sources are identifying the armed men who are organizing to fight the coalition forces as Wahhabis. Said the U.S. intelligence officer, "Now, all of a sudden, these Wahhabi guys have been appearing. We're hearing that word a lot more: Wahhabi."
That's because we've been watching the Shiites making faces and hollering. The wahhabi are a Sunni disease.
According to Iraqi sources inside the country who insist on anonymity, Wahhabi imams in the Fallujah mosques, as well as dozens of agitators from Saudi Arabia, have begun aggressive preaching of suicide bombings against coalition forces as part of a campaign of guerrilla warfare. At the same time, in Iraqi Kurdistan, where Saudi-Wahhabi religious organizations were introduced before the war, the Wahhabi militia Ansar al-Islam is again active. Attacked and scattered by U.S. forces during the main offensive in April, it has reconstituted itself and has struck in the towns of Halabja, Biahrah, and Dohuk, according to a Kurdish leader. The car bomb is Ansar's weapon of choice. The group is known to have Saudi participants, and propaganda in its favor appears in the Saudi media.
Thought those bastards were dead. Iran should pay heavily for letting their leadership get out. That's one they do owe us.
Most important, the end of the war has, paradoxically, provided the Wahhabis a new pretext for infiltration--namely, humanitarian relief. Despite all the exposure of the misuse of Islamic charities to promote terrorism, the same official Saudi relief organizations that have come under investigation since 9/11 are now entering Iraq. The International Islamic Relief Organization (IIRO), for example, investigated by U.S. and other governments for involvement in the funding of terrorism across the globe, is lauded in the Saudi daily Al-Watan (The Nation) for its "relief work" in Sunni districts of Iraq.
Thank you most to death, princelings. And bin Laden family.
These several indications of stepped-up Wahhabi activity in Iraq should raise a red flagâfor they conform to a pattern now familiar from Afghanistan, Central Asia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Kosovo, and Chechnya. The Wahhabi power-grab strategy in pursuit of the extremists' mad dream of imposing their "pure" Islam on all Muslims, then launching a jihad against the world, begins with indoctrination. Food, clothing, tents, and other relief supplies are distributed only to those willing to take classes in Wahhabi doctrine. Preachers are sent from the Gulf states with the mission of Wahhabizing local Muslims by opposing "practices of unbelief" alleged to be rife in local Islam. These may include friendship with Jews and Christians; acceptance of women's driving or going to school; traditional customs such as visiting graves (hated by Wahhabis, who believe gravestones are idols and honoring the dead is polytheistic); and devotion to Sufism, the Islamic form of spirituality.
When it comes to worshipping idols, though, they don't seem to have much problem with bin Laden posters and videos.
The next step is the establishment of training centers and camps where unemployed youths are trained to fight and lead irregular combat operations, especially suicide attacks. These centers are often directly linked to relief distribution points. Incitement of "martyrdom" against better-equipped, modern forces is a key Wahhabi tactic. Its purpose is to provoke major retaliation. Civilian casualties are useful in inciting orphaned and alienated young people to join the "struggle." A further inducement is the classic offer of stipends for recruits' families if they die in suicide operations. For the displaced victims of war, this may be the only economic reward immediately available. Then, crucially, Wahhabi agitators seek to eliminate opposition from local religious leaders. New mosques and madrassas are built with Saudi subsidies and staffed exclusively by Wahhabi imams and teachers. The system of madrassas is expanded, where possible to become an independent extremist educational system on the Pakistani model, setting neighbor against neighbor and son against father. Where necessary, established imams are paid cash to "convert" to Wahhabism. Uncooperative imams are boycotted and loudly labeled unbelievers or government spies. Imams who actively oppose the extremists risk their livesâwitness the murder of traditional imams in Chechnya, Daghestan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Algeria, Egypt, Morocco, and other countries. At least 200 such murders can be readily documented. This fact by itself explains why anti-Wahhabi imams around the worldâeven in Americaâare so reluctant to go public. Finally, Wahhabi agents often engage in vandalism against local graveyards, historic mosques, and the tombs of Muslim saints. This should be expected in Iraq, where the aim will be to provoke conflict between Sunnis and Shias, which the Wahhabis will present to the world as Shia aggression against the Sunni minority. This will increase support for the Wahhabis among Sunnis but open the door to Iranian military intervention to defend the Shiasâthe worst possible outcome. Such was the strategy the Wahhabis used against the Shia Hazara minority in Taliban-ruled Afghanistan. It produced massive bloodshed and nearly drew Iran into war with the Afghan regime.
The wahhabi sect is a religion founded on bloodshed. Where's the surprise? They're quite correct — these are the tactics we've seen over and over again.
In Iraq, several Sunni and Sufi leaders have expressed alarm at Wahhabi incursions and are prepared to sit down with the American authorities. All of them are in the sights of the terrorists and need immediate protection. In the United States, Sheikh Hisham Kabbani, long known for his denunciation of extremism, has maintained contact with these individuals through the Islamic Supreme Council of America (ISCA). Kabbani, who has a following throughout the Muslim world, has indicated his willingness to go to Iraq to promote a Sunni coalition of Arabs and Kurds dedicated to moderation, peace, and social equality.
When coalition troops come under fire in places like Fallujah, it cannot be assumed that local grievances are the essential explanation. There is a scheme to defeat the American intervention, and it originates in Saudi Arabia. It can be thwarted, with the help of local Muslim leaders. But first the coalition authorities have to take a closer look at who their enemy is. Time to break a few heads
Posted by: Steve ||
06/17/2003 11:51 am ||
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#1
soon it may be necessary to carry the fight to the source, hmmmm?
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/17/2003 12:03 Comments ||
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#2
The hell with smart-bombs. And let's not waste the nukes, we'll need them for the Islamic Caliphate of France. Can you say "ArcLight"?
#8
Read in the Chi. Trib. that Saudis/Wahabites were involved when the first shooting in Fallujah took place. Too bad it's been such a long time for it to be picked up by the rest of the press.
Let's get Atom Ant (Al-Jubeir) skewered about this one. Can't wait to see the new commercials about how Saudi is our friend.
Posted by: Michael ||
06/17/2003 15:40 Comments ||
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I wonder what happens when a smart bomb meets a dumb Saudi: does it make the bomb to become dumb or the Saudi smart? We need intensive testing about this.
The Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) have called on Burma to resume talks with the opposition, but stopped short of demanding the release of detained democracy campaigner, Aung San Suu Kyi. The statement was included in the final communique of an ASEAN foreign ministers meeting in Cambodia. The ASEAN statement urges Burma to resume efforts of national reconciliation and dialogue among all parties. It welcomes assurances given by Burma that the detention of Aung San Suu Kyi is temporary and says ASEAN ministers look forward to early lifting of restrictions on the Burmese Opposition National League for Democracy. It falls short of the tough language demanded by the United States, but the foreign ministers insist the discussions on Burma were frank and that the Burmese foreign minister took note of their observations.
"Yasss... We can't speak too harshly to them. They might oppress their countrymen."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
06/17/2003 08:33 am ||
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Hope those were copious notes.
Posted by: Michael ||
06/17/2003 15:50 Comments ||
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EFL. The New York Times at it's finest. Try not to let the tears short out your keyboards...
Afghans and Pakistanis who were detained for many months by the American military at Guantánamo Bay in Cuba before being released without charges are describing the conditions as so desperate that some captives tried to kill themselves. Don't let me stop you.
None of those interviewed complained of physical mistreatment. But the men said that for the first few months, they were kept in small wire-mesh cells, about 6 1/2 feet by 8 feet , in blocks of 10 or 20. The cells were covered by a wooden roof, but open at the sides to the elements. Those brutal Caribbean elements. I thought these tough guys were supposed to kick our asses? Now their whining like little girls.
"We slept, ate, prayed and went to the toilet in that small space," Mr. Shah said. Each man had two blankets and a prayer mat and slept and ate on the ground, he said. The prisoners were taken out only once a week for a one-minute shower. "After four and a half months we complained and people stopped eating, so they said we could shower for five minutes and exercise once a week," Mr. Shah said. After that, he said, prisoners got to exercise for 10 minutes a week, walking around the inside of a cage 30 feet long. Oh, yeah. I'm sure showers were right at the top of your list in the old country, right?
In interviews at their homes, weeks after being released, he and the freed Pakistani detainee talked of what they said was the overwhelming feeling of injustice among the approximately 680 men detained indefinitely at Guantánamo Bay."I was trying to kill myself," said Shah Muhammad, 20, a Pakistani who was captured in northern Afghanistan in November 2001, handed over to American soldiers and flown to Guantánamo in January 2002. "I tried four times, because I was disgusted with my life. It is against Islam to commit suicide," he continued, "but it was very difficult to live there. A lot of people did it. They treated me as guilty, but I was innocent." ...and the Times goes along for the ride.
In the 18 months since the detention camp opened, there have been 28 suicide attempts by 18 individuals, with most of those attempts made this year, Capt. Warren Neary, a spokesman at the detention camp, said today. None of the prisoners have killed themselves, but one man has suffered severe brain damage, according to his lawyer. How could you tell?
Mr. Muhammad, who spent 18 months in Cuba before his release, said that "when they first took us there they would not let us talk, or stand or walk around the cell. At the beginning it was very hard to bear," he added. "There was no call to prayer, and there was no shade. In the afternoon the sun came in from the side." Ooooohhhh, the humanity!
Conditions improved after the first few months, and prisoners were moved to newly built cells with running water and a bed, Mr. Shah said. Interrogation was sporadic and it varied in length and intensity. Sometimes they were questioned after 10 days, or 20 days, and then not for several months, prisoners said. Brutal! Just brutal!
But it was the uncertainty and fear that they would be there forever that drove many of them to despair, prisoners said. All of the people were worried about how long we would be there for," Mr. Shah said. "People were becoming mad because they were saying: `When will they release us? They should take us to the high court.' Many stopped eating." Not everybody. I read that on average the guys that they cut loose gained 13 pounds. Amazingly enough, that's not mentioned in this article.
Back home with time to ponder their ordeal, the former prisoners now want to demand compensation. Damn! Didn't see this coming, did I? Looks like they picked up some of the infidels ways. When in doubt, yell lawyer.
"The Americans said if anyone is innocent, they will get compensation," Mr. Muhammad said. "They held me for 18 months, and so they should give me compensation. They told me I was innocent, but they did not apologize." Sounds like we lied, Muhammad. I'm really, really sorry about that. Well, not really.
Human rights organizations have raised concerns about the conditions at Guantánamo Bay and the unclear legal status of the detainees. The American military has refused to consider them prisoners of war, even though a majority were captured on the battlefield, and does not allow them access to lawyers. No charges have yet been brought against any of the detainees, some of whom have been there for 18 months.Concerned about their prolonged detention without trial or clear legal status, the head of the International Red Cross, which visits the detainees, urged the Bush administration last month to start legal proceedings for the hundreds of detainees and to institute a number of changes in conditions at the camp. Well, boo hoo hoo.
Hospital officials said that about 5 percent of the inmates were suffering from depression and that they were being treated with antidepressants, typically Zoloft. Hello. My name is Mo, and I'm a depressed terrorist...
#1
I saw this little bit of journalistic propagandistic writing early this AM. The only thing they did not include was:
1-800-WAHWAAH for a supporting sympathetic recorded message for GITMO vets.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/17/2003 17:35 Comments ||
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#2
God Almighty WTF?! The NYT just can't help themselves. Every week they just keep diggin' themselves deeper - but this is so far over the line. Violent, gut wrenching nausea is the only rational reaction to this load of crap. This is not reporting, therefore it is not news. It is aid and comfort to the enemy and Pinchy & Co. should be brought up on charges then thrown the mercies (or lack thereof) of surviving family members of Afghanistan, 9/11 and all the previous Islamofascist assaults on our sovereignty
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
06/17/2003 17:17 Comments ||
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#3
I saw this little bit of journalistic propagandistic writing early this AM. The only thing they did not include was:
1-800-WAHWAAH for a supporting sympathetic recorded message for GITMO vets.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/17/2003 17:35 Comments ||
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#4
Man I really feel sorry for those Islamo-bastards in gitmo. It could have been worse, we could have hired NOW as guards!
Ok, am I the only one who seems a bit puzzled? Obviously these people weren't terrorists or they would not have been released, right? And from what I read some people should really not have been sent to Guantanamo in the first place. I said some, ok?
But those who clearly had no connection with terrorism, shouldn't they get some compensation for 18 months in a box? What's so wrong about that?
#6
TGA: I'm good for a buck, how about you? You disgusting piece of euro-trash.
Posted by: kelly ||
06/17/2003 19:06 Comments ||
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#7
TGA: This is off-topic, but do you happen to know the names of those four German soldiers who died in Afghanistan last week? I want to remember them.
Posted by: Matt ||
06/17/2003 19:49 Comments ||
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#8
TGA, I think the Gitmo detainees deserve to be there because otherwise they would not be there in the first place. (the flip-side of your contention; your mistrust of the US is showing)
Just because they were released without charges doesn't mean they did not deserve to be there. There could be other considerations in releasing someone, ie, too much expense for too little a fish. And if some were tried and convicted, they would be let go anyway because of the amount of time they were detained.
#9
Matt, I'm not sure but only one name has been released: Andrejas Beljio. Can't find the names of the others, it's likely that their families didn't want the public attention. Thanks for asking anyway.
RW, please don't get me wrong here: I'm not asking for compensation for anyone even losely affiliated with terrorists. I don't know why these people were released without charges: Could be the "little fish" thing, but with thousands of inmates don't you think that some plain errors occurred, too? A mix up of names? Or some enemies of the guy who told the U.S. that he was Al Qaeda to get rid of him? (I was told that these cases happened). Do you believe in infallibility? Let's assume that there were a few guys sent home because the U.S. found out that they didn't have anything to to with terror? That this Ali Baba was not the Ali Baba they were looking for? In that case, do you think compensation is o.k.? Or just tell the guy, tough luck? I can understand every security concern about Gitmo, but this doesn't mean that errors can't be corrected.
If Gitmo wasn't shrouded in such secrecy I would probably not have asked. This isn't about "mistrust" of the U.S.
#10
The US sent to gitmo all AQ captured in Afghan. They are not all active terrorists - they ARE all illegal combatants - its a mistake to think of them as uncharged criminals - rather they are like POWS, but since they were not legal combatants under Geneva, they do not have rights as POW's. Some among them are terrorists. Those who are deemed not to be may well be released early if holding them deemed not of any use. Where there have been mixups the US has released individuals at the behest of the Afghan govt. Article does not state that these were among them.
#11
Where I'm concerned mistrust of *any* country's government is a very good thing to have. So saying to someone that his mistrust of the US is showing, would get from me the response "Good.". As would mistrust of UK, or of France, or of the Greek government.
What I see here is people that are not being tried for the crimes they committed/are accused of. This may be too simplistic a viewpoint, but there you go.
#12
What exactly is a "illegal combatant"? I mean, this term didn't exist before Afghanistan. Is there a clear legal definition for it. Is this a new phenomenon or has this existed before (and was just named and treated differently)? Why can a mass murderer have a legal status and "illegal combatants" can not? (They might not even have killed anyone). I do understand the security thing but does this exclude legal status and certain rights?
Again, I think with "terrorists" it's clear. But the term "illegal combatant" is a very foggy one. Would an Afghan peasant qualify who took arms against American "invaders" (in his view they are) just because he didn't have a uniform?
#13
Aris, you sure you're not an American? I agree with you on the trust thing. Hence the mistrust of Old Europe by the Americans, and the whole ICC thing. What goes around, comes around.
Every time a teacher asked me something I didn't know the answer to, I would say "can I have some time to think about that please?"
I realize this is treading on your territory TGA and so I should be careful not to step on a landmine :)
#15
TGA, ARIS: Refer to the Geneva Convention (you know, adapted after the last time we freed Europe)and treatment of lawful combatants (i.e. 'distinctive sign' refered to in this link.)http://193.194.138.190/html/menu3/b/91.htm
Posted by: kelly ||
06/17/2003 21:44 Comments ||
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#16
The Geneva Convention (of 1949) has this:
Article 5 "The present Convention shall apply to the persons referred to in Article 4 from the time they fall into the power of the enemy and until their final release and repatriation.
Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4, such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal."
Which "competent tribunal" has determined the status? The Pentagon? The President?
#18
All due respect TGA, but you are selective in your quoting of the GC. The convention places requirements on those who want to be covered by the convention. Wearing of uniforms, identifiable command structure, etc. Pirates [and they do still exist - check the maritime reporting sites] by the nature of their actions disqualify themselves from coverage and protection of the GC. They lack legitimate standing. Likewise, AQ does not represent a sovereign govenment, they do not wear uniforms or designation as called for, and do not conduct themselves in accordence with the GC. Ergo, they constitute illegal combatants if captured on the battlefield. Of course, caught out of uniform, on a battlefield and armed, these individuals could be shot summarily, as AQ shot a couple of our troops summarily on the battlefield in Afghanistan [even though they did conform to the GC requirements for military personnel]. Or have we forgot that incident already?
As to competent tribunal, as custodians of these illegal combatants, we act in accordance with our Constitution which in Article 1 proscribes that Congress shall make all laws governing land and naval forces. The tribunals are convened and conducted under Title 10 United States Code as instituted by Congressional authority. The executive branch, the President and the military officers appointed by Congress under him, simply carry out that law.
Posted by: Don ||
06/17/2003 23:30 Comments ||
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#19
Found it:
The Guantanamo Thirteen
Packing on the pounds at America's toughest prison.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2083612/
Must've been hell. Were they pissed they didn't have butlers?
#20
Don, pirates have a legal status... they are criminals. AQ are terrorists and criminals.
Just the idea of an "illegal combattant" is foggy to me. Because it's a new term. And I'm just trying to relate it to something I know: Do they compare to Yugoslav partisans or French Resistants?
And just because someone doesn't meet the criteria of the GC doesn't mean he loses every legal rights. We haven't even been told why those guys that were sent back were sent to Gitmo in the first place. It's that secrecy that makes people think.
By TED BRIDIS
The Associated Press
Tuesday, June 17, 2003; 5:22 PM
WASHINGTON - The chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee said Tuesday he favors developing new technology to remotely destroy the computers of people who illegally download music from the Internet.
The surprise remarks by Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, during a hearing on copyright abuses represent a dramatic escalation in the frustrating battle by industry executives and lawmakers in Washington against illegal music downloads.
During a discussion on methods to frustrate computer users who illegally exchange music and movie files over the Internet, Hatch asked technology executives about ways to damage computers involved in such file trading. Legal experts have said any such attack would violate federal anti-hacking laws.
"No one is interested in destroying anyone's computer," replied Randy Saaf of MediaDefender Inc., a secretive Los Angeles company that builds technology to disrupt music downloads. One technique deliberately downloads pirated material very slowly so other users can't.
"I'm interested," Hatch interrupted. He said damaging someone's computer "may be the only way you can teach somebody about copyrights."
The senator acknowledged Congress would have to enact an exemption for copyright owners from liability for damaging computers. He endorsed technology that would twice warn a computer user about illegal online behavior, "then destroy their computer."
"If we can find some way to do this without destroying their machines, we'd be interested in hearing about that," Hatch said. "If that's the only way, then I'm all for destroying their machines. If you have a few hundred thousand of those, I think people would realize" the seriousness of their actions, he said.
"There's no excuse for anyone violating copyright laws," Hatch said.
Rep. Rick Boucher, D-Va., who has been active in copyright debates in Washington, urged Hatch to reconsider. Boucher described Hatch's role as chairman of the Judiciary Committee as "a very important position, so when Senator Hatch indicates his views with regard to a particular subject, we all take those views very seriously."
Some legal experts suggested Hatch's provocative remarks were more likely intended to compel technology and music executives to work faster toward ways to protect copyrights online than to signal forthcoming legislation.
"It's just the frustration of those who are looking at enforcing laws that are proving very hard to enforce," said Orin Kerr, a former Justice Department cybercrimes prosecutor and associate professor at George Washington University law school.
The entertainment industry has gradually escalated its fight against Internet file-traders, targeting the most egregious pirates with civil lawsuits. The Recording Industry Association of America recently won a federal court decision making it significantly easier to identify and track consumers - even those hiding behind aliases - using popular Internet file-sharing software.
Kerr predicted it was "extremely unlikely" for Congress to approve a hacking exemption for copyright owners, partly because of risks of collateral damage when innocent users might be wrongly targeted.
"It wouldn't work," Kerr said. "There's no way of limiting the damage."
Last year, Rep. Howard Berman, D-Calif., ignited a firestorm across the Internet over a proposal to give the entertainment industry new powers to disrupt downloads of pirated music and movies. It would have lifted civil and criminal penalties against entertainment companies for disabling, diverting or blocking the trading of pirated songs and movies on the Internet.
But Berman, ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary panel on the Internet and intellectual property, always has maintained that his proposal wouldn't permit hacker-style attacks by the industry on Internet users.
#1
Hatch is sane on about 95% of the days, even to the point of baiting Schumer over "dumb questions", which I loved. This is an example of the other 5%. Perhaps Fritz Hollings (D-Disney,RIAA) got to him?
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/17/2003 18:27 Comments ||
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#2
Frank, I agree with you. I love Hatch, this is why I am flabbergasted by his position. It seems that the punishment advocated is disproportionate to the crime.
#3
Hatch is sane on about 95% of the days, even to the point of baiting Schumer over "dumb questions", which I loved. This is an example of the other 5%. Perhaps Fritz Hollings (D-Disney,RIAA) got to him?
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/17/2003 18:27 Comments ||
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#4
Frank, I agree with you. I love Hatch, this is why I am flabbergasted by his position. It seems that the punishment advocated is disproportionate to the crime.
#5
Just FYI - Metallica found a way to stop illegal downloads of their new CD, "St. Anger":
It's a piece of crap.
I like most Metallica and this one won't be pirated much, so Orrin and Lars can unfurrow those brows
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/17/2003 18:57 Comments ||
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#6
Hatch needs an axehandle in the face. This little idiocy of his totally ignores due process, not to mention several other guarantees found in more than one Amendment in our Constitution. There is no way under the sun to guarantee that the person downloading files is actually the owner of the computer, or that the action isn't a legitimate download. This is the kind of crap that has clogged our courts for the last 75 years, and made the Constitution a roll of toilet paper. There is no excuse for anyone thinking like this. You don't solve one crime by committing another. Hatch should know better. If he doesn't he doesn't belong in Congress. If his aides haven't quietly pulled him aside and told him he's out of bounds, they need to be fired.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
06/17/2003 20:24 Comments ||
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#7
To Mr Hatch, the downloaders who get their machines damaged will then say (in the immortal words of Bugs Bunny):
"Of course you know, this means war."
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/17/2003 20:31 Comments ||
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#8
You're right, Frank; most of the time Orin Hatch has his head on straight, but when it gets out of joint it gets WAY out of joint.
I wish there were Senate and House rules that REQUIRED every piece of legislation to be submitted to a review against the Law Of Unintended Consequences, and a review of how that legislation might be maliciously applied. Even if it accomplished nothing more than slowing the legislative process down by 90%, that would be A Good Thing.
Come to think of it, that would be a VERY good thing...
Posted by: Dave D. ||
06/17/2003 20:33 Comments ||
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#9
Dave D. = Dave Dilatush from Daily Pundit?
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/17/2003 20:48 Comments ||
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Jpost - Reg Req'd
Posted only because it's gotta be one of the signs of the apocalypse. Run for your lives!
Following visits by Whitney Houston and Richard Gere, reports are surfacing that Madonna will be the next foreign celebrity to come to the Holy Land.
According to a report in the British tabloid The Daily Mirror, Madonna, who is known to study Kabbala and other Jewish texts, plans to film the video for her forthcoming single "Nothing Fails" in Israel.
Although some of Madonna's friends and colleagues have urged her not to come due to the security situation, the Mirror reported that she is determined to film the video here because the song has direct references to Kabbala, and even mentions the Jewish notion of the tree of life.
If Madonna does come to Israel, it will not be her first time. The international star, who released her ninth album, American Life, in April, performed here 10 years ago to a crowd of more than 50,000 at Hayarkon Park in Tel Aviv.
I'm so disappointed a lightning bold didn't come outta a clear blue sky and smote this slutwealthy hypocrite talented performer - just for her name, lol
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/17/2003 06:15 pm ||
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#1
Just get the &%#! out of the way. There are big issues and important matters going. Why is some over-the-hill pop-star constantly trying to inject herself into world events?!
On the positive side, I've heard that sales for her recent album have been disappointing. She'll always be able to grab a headline but hopefully she'll be largely ignored (probably a fate worse than death for her).
Posted by: Tokyo Taro ||
06/17/2003 19:51 Comments ||
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#2
I'd like to see her do the Gaza Strip... oh wait that didn't sound good.
JPost - Reg Req'd
Moral equivalence? The IDF targets killers and apologizes when innocent civilians are also impacted. The Paleos target the innocent civilians. Cowards
An two-year-old Israeli girl was killed and a second child and an adult were wounded in a shooting attack Tuesday near the West Bank town of Qalqilya Tuesday night.
The man, apparently the driver, was moderately wounded, while a second child was seriously wounded when shots were fired at the car as it was exiting the Trans-Israel Highway near Kibbutz Eyal, adjacent to Qalqilya.
The attack, which came as Palestinian militant groups were discussing a temporary holdoff in attacks on Israelis, occured on a highway close to the Israeli town of Kfar Saba, which lies on the other side of the road from Qalkilya. a reeaalllyy temporary holdoff, apparently
Police said they assumed the shooting came from the West Bank and they had sealed off the area and launched a hunt for the attackers.
Elswhere, Palestinians shot at an Israeli vehicle near the West Bank settlement of Omarim, near Hebron. No one was injured in this attack.
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/17/2003 06:07 pm ||
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IRNA â Judiciary Chief Ayatollah Mahmoud Hashemi Shahroudi here on Monday said it was natural for students to stage rallies to ask for their demands to be met, adding that those demands, if deemed logical, must be responded to in an appropriate manner.
"We can always beat the hell out of them later."
Shahroudi was referring to recent angry rallies by students of Tehran University which lasted for several days in protest against privatization of universities. He told a session of high-ranking Judiciary officials that it was common for students throughout the world to put forward certain demands, but said the recent rallies had been abused by certain individuals who were not students. The Judiciary chief described as critical the prevailing conditions of Iran and the Middle East, and urged the police to prevent any incident which might be used as a pretext against Iran by the enemies. "The officials of the country will stand steadfast against any issue that might jeopardize the interests of the Islamic Republic," Shahroudi said. "The more the US steps up its pressures against Iran, the stronger will be the solidarity and unity of the Iranian nation."
"But for now, hide the bully boyz, or we might end up with the 4th ID in our backyards..."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
06/17/2003 03:04 pm ||
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#1
This is wide open. Depends on what version of "appropriate" you lean towards, the kids or the mullahs.
IRNA — Hamas has ridiculed a call by US Senator Richard Lugar for dispatching American troops to the West Bank and Gaza Strip to fight Hamas. "It seems the senator's tongue functions much more swiftly than his mind does," said Hamas' spokesman in Ramallah, Hasan Silwadi. "Doesn't he know that Hamas exists in every Palestinian home? Doesn't he know that Israel, with all its military might and Nazi-like brutality couldn't defeat Hamas?"
Ummm... No, and no. It's a lousy idea, but only because the IDF is perfectly capable of defeating Hamas itself, assuming it wants to expend the manpower.
Silwadi rebuked Lugar for acting contrary to purported American ideals of freedom and liberty. "You claim that your country stands for freedom. But what your country is doing in Palestine represents the antithesis of freedom and liberty."
Only the antithesis of the Islamic definition of same, which doesn't apply to the individual but to the state...
The Islamic leader defended Palestinian bombings inside Israel, arguing that they are inevitable due to Israel's Nazi-like treatment of the Palestinian people. Silwadi argued that Israel was offering the Palestinians two choices, either brutal death in 'our homes, markets, mosques, farms and streets or brutal death as suicide bombers in the streets of Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. . . I challenge Lugar to give us a third choice'.
Lessee, here. Giving up on the armed struggle™ nonsense, leading to negotiations, compromise, the establishment of a Paleostinian state, free elections, Mom, apple pie — or felafel — and a host of other things that don't involve loud noises and flying meat.
He said Palestinians had no other means to defend themselves and their children against Israeli brutality. "Jewish Nazism breeds Palestinian suicide bombings," he added forcefully.
Then his lips fell off.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
06/17/2003 02:45 pm ||
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Man...sometimes this Islamist chest thumping really hacks me off. When was the last time an Arab military entity actually defeated so much as a Brownie troop? They come off so fucking tough and all they do is blow up buses full of school kids and seniors. The only thing they ever seem to hit with their AK-47s is the air. I hereby issue a challenge! Send 10 of your best...(we're right on the Canuck border, so you should have no trouble getting here armed) I and TWO of my hunting buddies will take you all out and never take a scratch ourselves! Punk ass baby killers!
#3
"Doesn't he know that Hamas exists in every Palestinian home? Doesn't he know that Israel, with all its military might and Nazi-like brutality couldn't defeat Hamas?"
"You claim that your country stands for freedom. But what your country is doing in Palestine represents the antithesis of freedom and liberty."
'our homes, markets, mosques, farms and streets or brutal death as suicide bombers in the streets of Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. . . I challenge Lugar to give us a third choice'.
Is it just me, or does it seem to anyone else like these lines might have been outtakes from 1930's Errol Flynn movies, with a couple of words replaced.
No wonder they hate us so much, they want Titanic, and Spider-man, but all they get is Adventures of Robin hood and Captain Blood.
By the way, this guy couldn't hold a candle to Errol Flynn's delivery, any way
#4
Man...sometimes this Islamist chest thumping really hacks me off. When was the last time an Arab military entity actually defeated so much as a Brownie troop? They come off so fucking tough and all they do is blow up buses full of school kids and seniors. The only thing they ever seem to hit with their AK-47s is the air. I hereby issue a challenge! Send 10 of your best...(we're right on the Canuck border, so you should have no trouble getting here armed) I and TWO of my hunting buddies will take you all out and never take a scratch ourselves! Punk ass baby killers!
#5
"Doesn't he know that Hamas exists in every Palestinian home?" So when a rocket explodes a car in a busy Gaza street there are no civilians? Wow this guy sound just like the former Iraqi Info Minister. I remember how the brave Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and PLO ran like school girls when the Israelis invaded Lebenon. Of course now they hide behind school girls (progress). What was the name of that organization that save thier sorry butts? Oh that's right the UN. Cry me a river Hasan, your days are numbered, you are just too dumb to know it.
#6
Well these Islamists rant and rave. That is a given, but what is Richard Luger blowing his mouth off on what we should do with troops. I find that irresponsible. If he has suggestions, then he should discuss them with the President or his staff. It does nothing but raise up the rhetoric level when a senator does this. We need to walk softly and carry a big stick and when soft talk does not work, we and/or the IDF needs to swing the stick.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/17/2003 15:22 Comments ||
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#7
Damn right, AP. What kind of stuff was Lugar smoking before he put his foot in his mouth? He's usually pretty level-headed.
Posted by: Michael ||
06/17/2003 15:46 Comments ||
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IRNA â As part of Israel's institutionalized persecution of non-Jews in Palestine, the Israeli police on Monday summoned the Mufti Of al-Qods (Jerusalem), Ikrema Sabri, for interrogation in connection with his anti-apartheid stance. The interrogation itself was postponed, but Sabri said he was warned by the Zionist police to ''tone down my remarks.''
So nothing actually happened, except that the cops told him to stop spraying spittle...
Sabri had voiced his opposition to allowing non-Muslims to pray at and visit the Islamic religious shrines at the Haram al Sharif of Jerusalem, saying unless Muslims are allowed to visit, nobody else would be.
"And if they are, nobody else should be, either."
Israel has an established policy of barring Muslims and Christians in the West Bank and Gaza from visiting their respective holy places in Jerusalem.
Not that we've heard of...
The Al-Aqsa Mosque, mentioned in the Holy Quran by name, is considered one of the holiest Islamic places.
I believe the name was interpolated. There wasn't a mosque there when the Koran was written...
The apartheid Israeli state considers al-Qods as its ''eternal and undivided capital.'' The international community, including the United States, refuses to recognize Israel's usurpation of Jerusalem.
That's one of the most Goebbled pieces of reporting I've seen on IRNA.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
06/17/2003 02:34 pm ||
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Thank you for posting this, Fred. If I may, here's a few other comments I'd like to add:
As part of Israel's institutionalized persecution of non-Jews in Palestine,...
as opposed to the institutionalized persecution of non-muslims by most of Araby, and many (not all) Muslims, from Pakistan to Africa.
...Sabri said he was warned by the Zionist police to ''tone down my remarks.'' ...
...you mean, like keeping in accordance with the agreements made by your own Prime minister regarding ending incitement?
...Israel has an established policy of barring Muslims and Christians in the West Bank and Gaza from visiting their respective holy places in Jerusalem.
Wait a moment. I seem to recall that Israel liberated and united jerusalem, and instead of kicking the arabs off the temple mount, actually gave them authority to administer the continuing activities of that eyesore mosque. That being the case, it is actually the Mufti himself who has forbidden any non-muslims from approaching the temple mount. Let's continue...
The Al-Aqsa Mosque, mentioned in the Holy Quran by name, is considered one of the holiest Islamic places.
not much to add here, Fred. you seem to have nailed it, except that I believe that "al-aqsa" translates as something akin to "farthest point", which i would guess refers to the farthest point from Mecca that could still be considered within the reaches of Islamic influence, in the time that the Koran was written.
The apartheid Israeli state...
Isn't it funny how subjective the Arabs are in their use of English words for some things, and their 'faithful' adherance to Arab words for others. They can't bring themselves to call Jerusalem by it's true historical name, but throw around words like "apartheid" to get all the enlightened folk enraged at Israel. first of all, there is no instiutionalized system in Israel at all like the one that existed in South Africa. Israel was created to be a Jewish state in reponse to the need for a land where Jews could be free from the ages of persecution culminating in the holocaust. As opposed to south Africa which was founded and ruled by a colonial European society, who sought to exploit the rich resources of a distant land. while we're on the subject, let's talk about Islamic society and their laws of Dhimmi. "the dhimmi is a distinctly subjugated second class non-citizen almost slave who is subjected to dictatorial deprivation of any legal and human rights since he is a non-Muslim permanent resident in a Muslim state.
#3
And don't think for a second that the Israelis have forgoten just who most of the Arab world wanted to win the Second World War
Posted by: Someone who did NOT vote for William Proxmire ||
06/17/2003 16:37 Comments ||
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#4
Lemme see if I have this straight: the Mufti's "anti-apartheid stance" rests on the principle that non-Muslims must be barred from Islamic religious sites? Ah, the brotherhood of man.
#6
Thank you for posting this, Fred. If I may, here's a few other comments I'd like to add:
As part of Israel's institutionalized persecution of non-Jews in Palestine,...
as opposed to the institutionalized persecution of non-muslims by most of Araby, and many (not all) Muslims, from Pakistan to Africa.
...Sabri said he was warned by the Zionist police to ''tone down my remarks.'' ...
...you mean, like keeping in accordance with the agreements made by your own Prime minister regarding ending incitement?
...Israel has an established policy of barring Muslims and Christians in the West Bank and Gaza from visiting their respective holy places in Jerusalem.
Wait a moment. I seem to recall that Israel liberated and united jerusalem, and instead of kicking the arabs off the temple mount, actually gave them authority to administer the continuing activities of that eyesore mosque. That being the case, it is actually the Mufti himself who has forbidden any non-muslims from approaching the temple mount. Let's continue...
The Al-Aqsa Mosque, mentioned in the Holy Quran by name, is considered one of the holiest Islamic places.
not much to add here, Fred. you seem to have nailed it, except that I believe that "al-aqsa" translates as something akin to "farthest point", which i would guess refers to the farthest point from Mecca that could still be considered within the reaches of Islamic influence, in the time that the Koran was written.
The apartheid Israeli state...
Isn't it funny how subjective the Arabs are in their use of English words for some things, and their 'faithful' adherance to Arab words for others. They can't bring themselves to call Jerusalem by it's true historical name, but throw around words like "apartheid" to get all the enlightened folk enraged at Israel. first of all, there is no instiutionalized system in Israel at all like the one that existed in South Africa. Israel was created to be a Jewish state in reponse to the need for a land where Jews could be free from the ages of persecution culminating in the holocaust. As opposed to south Africa which was founded and ruled by a colonial European society, who sought to exploit the rich resources of a distant land. while we're on the subject, let's talk about Islamic society and their laws of Dhimmi. "the dhimmi is a distinctly subjugated second class non-citizen almost slave who is subjected to dictatorial deprivation of any legal and human rights since he is a non-Muslim permanent resident in a Muslim state.
Liberian President Charles Taylor, who has been at the center of West Africa's conflicts for 14 years and faces war crimes charges, committed Tuesday to step down under a cease-fire agreement with rebel groups. Why, that's good news, isn't it?
Taylor's defense minister, Daniel Chea, said the Liberian leader ``fully supports this peace accord, and the government will do anything to ensure its success'' — apparently committing Taylor personally to the deal. Note the "apparently" part.
Mediators and observers burst into applause and raucous cheers as Chea shook hands with Kabineh Janeh and Tia Slanger, delegates of the two rebel movements that in three years have opposed Taylor's regime, seizing more than 60 percent of the West African nation. ``We have done the greatest thing this afternoon by signing this cease-fire,'' Chea said. ``By this, we're letting the world know that the government of Liberia wishes in no way to be part of any further bloodshed.'' Checked other news sites, no word from Chucky if he has agreed to this. I'll believe it when his plane lifts off.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/17/2003 12:16 pm ||
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Maybe he can make a stop in Zimbabwe and pick up Bob.
Faced with a string of virulent anti-regime protests in Tehran, Iranian authorities appear to be switching tactics by offering a detente to the nocturnal demonstrators while pinning blame on "thugs" and old arch-foe the United States. And so far at least, the mix of repression and appeasement of the thousands of protestors — who have seen vigilantes go on rampages of beatings and then being arrested — appears to be bearing fruit. Overnight Sunday, thousands of residents again turned out in their cars and converged around Tehran university's campus, the epicenter of a student-led movement which is challenging the foundations of the clerical regime. But gone were the scenes of running battles with hardline vigilantes from the Basij militia and Ansar Hezbollah group — fierce defenders of supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei — as well as the accompanying tensions. Protestors stayed largely confined to their cars, and were allowed to drive around the campus under the watchful eye of thousands of police. The honking of horns and shouting of slogans were not allowed, and the evening largely passed off peacefully. Basij members also appeared to be under strict instructions not to inflame tensions. They were out and about on their motorcycles, but their chains, guns and knives were kept out of sight.
Several vigilantes were detained. Anti-riot police were also largely replaced by police in civilian clothes, who were armed with aerosol cannisters — thought to contain either pepper spray or spray paint to mark offending cars. The result was a rather muted drive around. Authorities hope to convince residents that they are better off going to bed. Kind of along the lines of "What if they held a protest and nobody noticed?". Interesting tactic.
Nevertheless, a top police commander told the official news agency IRNA that 30 "miscreants and hooligans" were arrested overnight Sunday. The agency also said arrests over the past few days numbered 109. And as protests reportedly spread from the heart of Tehran to the provincial cities of Mashhad and Tabriz, those were also blamed on just a few "hooligans" in the pay of the United States and keen to exploit the student concerns.
Meanwhile, the foreign ministry announced it had sent a "vigorous protest" to Washington over its "interference" in Iran's internal affairs, in a letter conveyed through the Swiss embassy here that represents US interests. US President George W. Bush Sunday voiced his support for the latest demonstrations — the first in Iran for six months — judging them as "positive" while slamming a sometimes brutal crackdown. But by emphasising such comments, Iran's leaders have given a clear message that fresh protests would be considered as "counter-revolutionary". Behind the scenes, arrests also continued: the judiciary announced the detention of several dissident intellectuals, including journalist Mohsen Sazegara and his son Vahid who were picked up on Sunday. The head of the suspended pro-reform paper Golestan, Amin Bozorgian, was also detained. A liberal opposition group announced Monday that a third member of its leadership, Hoda Saber, was among those arrested, while the Iran newspaper said student leader Mojtaba Najafi was taken away by plainclothes men late Sunday. In a statement, the higher education ministry spelled out the message, by ordering students "to separate themselves from those who are in the pay of foreign powers". According to the statement, the foreign media "have launched a propaganda campaign against our homeland, and are trying to create trouble and undermine our national security".
Posted by: Steve ||
06/17/2003 12:02 pm ||
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ap reports protests continue
"About 300 people demonstrated in an eastern neighborhood of Tehran on Tuesday. But they dispersed after anti-riot police and militants gathered.
In Gohardasht, about 25 miles to the west, some 700 demonstrators were attacked by anti-riot police and militants, a witness said"
North Korea warned Tuesday that any economic blockade by the United States and its allies against the communist state could lead to a war that would include Japan. They are persistant, I'll give them that. And, threatening a relatively defenseless Japan, isn't the worst idea.
On the other hand, if Japan decides not to be defenseless, they've brought themselves a real problem.
The warning came as the United States, Japan and Australia, began cracking down on the North Korean trade in illicit drugs, weapons and counterfeit money â believed to be key sources of hard currency for Pyongyang to buttress its regime and its suspected nuclear weapons programs. North Korea's main state-run newspaper Rodong Sinmun on Tuesday charged that the United States is "laying an international siege to the North and putting a blockade against it as a premeditated scheme to start a new war on the Korean peninsula." Ummm, It's not a "new" war. But, then again, we can't expect the Norks to check any facts.
North Korea will take "physical retaliation," including "all means and methods an independent country can take," if it concludes that the recent moves by the allies violate its sovereignty, Rodong said in a commentary monitored by South Korean news agency Yonhap. "There is no guarantee that this blockade will not lead to such a serious condition as a full-scale war," said Rodong. "If war breaks out between the North and the United States, it will not be limited to the Korean Peninsula but all the areas where aggressors are lurking will become our targets." North Korea accused Japan of turning itself into the "base camp for U.S. aggression against Korea." Separately, the mayor of Hiroshima has invited North Korean leader Kim Jong Il to attend this year's memorial of the 1945 atomic bombing in protest of Pyongyang's plans to pursue nuclear weapons. Man, how do we deal with that if he goes? We can get rid of him then, but how do we justify nuking Hiroshima twice?
I think the idea might be for him to see what those nukes he's so fond of would actually do. They don't think he comprehends it, and they're probably right.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
06/17/2003 09:14 am ||
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"Self Defense forces", yes, and anybody who decides to mess with the Japs in their own back yard is probably gonna get beaten up. And I wouldn't be so sure that the Japanese are all that defenseless. Sneaky and underhanded, yeah. Defensless? No.
#2
I was only refering to nuclear capability. I see that I should have clearified myself.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
06/17/2003 11:43 Comments ||
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#3
The last thing Beijing wants is a nuclear Japan. It seems that by standing aside and letting the Nkors do their thing, Beijing is ushering in exactly what they don't want. Secondly, I'm not sure we want a fully militarized Japan.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
06/17/2003 12:50 Comments ||
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#4
Actually, I read an interesting article the other day about the japanese military. I will try to find a source, but the gist of the article was that Japan is second only to the US in defense expenditures and that they have a pretty significant military capability hidden under their "Domestic Defense Squad" or something like that. I think if NK were to involve Japan in a war, they would get a very unpleasant surprise.
#5
"Self Defense forces", yes, and anybody who decides to mess with the Japs in their own back yard is probably gonna get beaten up. And I wouldn't be so sure that the Japanese are all that defenseless. Sneaky and underhanded, yeah. Defensless? No.
#6
I was only refering to nuclear capability. I see that I should have clearified myself.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
06/17/2003 11:43 Comments ||
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#7
North Korea is going to mess around here and get Japan angry enough to amend their constitution enough to build a full-scale army, navy, and air force. THAT would put the fox among the chickens throughout Asia. Taking an additional half-million young Japanese from the unemployment rolls might even stimulate Japan's economy enough to have it stage a recovery.
I don't know what game the Koreans are trying to play, but they're doing it at a very inopportune time. Thailand is beefing up its armed forces and developing a special operations capability to counter what it sees as the growing Muslim threat to peace. Australia just got a good lesson in modern land warfare in Iraq, and will probably incorporate many of the lessons learned there. The Philippines have finally asked for help dealing with THEIR Muslim terrorist problems, and it seems the training the US Special Forces has been conducting is showing considerable progress. Mainland China's increased saber-rattling has gotten the attention of the Taiwanese, who are looking everywhere for modern equipment to increase the effectiveness of their armed forces. NKorean drug exports to Australia have been confirmed with the recent capture of the NK trawler delivering heroin. Burma and Laos are upset over the growing competition. Kim needs to be very careful, or he could have more than one Asian adversary to deal with!
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
06/17/2003 11:59 Comments ||
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#8
This is starting to get spooky for those of us who live on the West Coast. The Norks are a serious, if nutty, bunch -- they are definately not like the Iraqis in most ways. If Saddam was the Riddler, than Kim Jong II is Lex Luthor.
#9
I just hope they've got enough dehydrated kid to fit into their mess kits for a sustained offensive. KREs: "Kids: Ready to Eat". They taste great cooked over a "sea of fire".
#10
I wouldn't even be so sure they haven't got nukes, Mike. They certainly have the industrial, scientific and engineering capability, all that's required is the will to produce weapons.
#11
The last thing Beijing wants is a nuclear Japan. It seems that by standing aside and letting the Nkors do their thing, Beijing is ushering in exactly what they don't want. Secondly, I'm not sure we want a fully militarized Japan.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
06/17/2003 12:50 Comments ||
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#12
tu3031,
"KRE's" was pretty good, but I thought it was an MRE packet of "Baby au Juche".
Al-Guardian - watch the spin!
The foreign secretary, Jack Straw, today gave Washington's hawks notice that Britain would not back interference in Iran, but also urged the Iranian government to let weapons inspectors investigate suspicions that it is developing nuclear weapons. Mr Straw told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that the government's approach to Iran was different from the US administration in that "it is one of constructive and conditional engagement with the government of Iran". Mr Straw's comments come after the US president, George Bush, praised recent anti-government demonstrations in Iran's capital Tehran. However, Mr Straw also said that EU ministers were prepared to "park" negotiations on a trade agreement with Iran if there was insufficient progress on inspections. Iran has recently refused to sign up to a tougher inspection regime by the International Atomic Energy Authority (IAEA). See? We're not that different! We're likely to "park" a JDAM on that frigging reactor
"On this issue of the Iranians' possible nuclear systems, what we have said to the Iranians is 'Look, if it is correct that you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear by the kind of enhanced inspections which now the whole world wishes you to undertake,' he said. "Iran wants a trade and cooperation agreement which would give much better trade arrangements between Iran and the EU. We have linked that very closely to progress on human rights and, for example, to progress on the kind of weapons inspections which they are going to allow under the International Atomic Energy Authority. We had an interim review of progress. It has not been satisfactory. We will look again following negotiations with Iran in the autumn to see how far they have got. It is inevitable from Iran's point of view that, if they are not making progress on each of these tracks, on human rights and cooperation with the IAEA as well as progress on the trade negotiations, then it is highly probable that European ministers will decide to have to park the negotiations on the trade and cooperation agreement."
"Human rights" are incompatible with divine-right monarchies — and monarchies-in-all-but-name. The basis of the one denies the other.
Mr Straw also expressed optimism about the prospects of reform in Iran. "Iran is a country undergoing major demographic transition, because so many of their population, 70% at the latest estimate, is under 30, and that in itself is going to push Iran towards the process of reform and greater liberalisation." But he stressed that the impetus for reform had to come from within the country. "Given the long history of Iran, they have to be allowed to sort out their opposition internally, and the thing that would most derail the process towards the establishment of a better democracy in Iran would be suggestions that the opposition there was being orchestrated from the outside, which happily so far it has not been." Now, how is that so different from the U.S. position? "Nice job", Guardian
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/17/2003 09:22 am ||
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SOG,
All the mullahs have to report to Somalia for piecekeeping duties - keep this piece of real estate picked up, that piece picked up, etc. Of course, much of what will have to be picked up are the leftover land mines, unexploded bombs, and dead bodies from the fighting between the various factions in the area. It's the right thing to do....
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
06/17/2003 11:42 Comments ||
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#2
Syria has a Shia minority but they are in charge of the nation and have been Iranian allies for some time. If I were a Mullah on the run that's probably where I would go.
On the other hand if I were Assad Jr. I would not welcome fleeing Mullahs as it might attract unwanted attention.
#3
The Mullahs in Iran are Shia. As I recall, Saudi Arabia is primarily Sunni... so they won't be finding a new home there. Seems like the most likely place for them to flee is to liberalizing Iraq... where religious freedom is being supported by the "Great Satan". How about THAT for irony?
#4
Syria has a Shia minority but they are in charge of the nation and have been Iranian allies for some time. If I were a Mullah on the run that's probably where I would go.
On the other hand if I were Assad Jr. I would not welcome fleeing Mullahs as it might attract unwanted attention.
#5
Give the amount of information that Iran is about to implode in civil war between the educated middle class and the mullahs and their brainwashed minions, it does not surprise me at all that the U.S. is not rolling to Teheran right now. The country is a mess and the nuclear program may be the last straw to the people of that country seeing the Billions spent on THAT when they have so many social and infrastructure problems in that country.
I would be inclined to sit back and watch the fun and be "invited" to join in as a constabulary after the mullahs tuck their skirts and flee to Saudi Arabia. Question though, if these radical mullahs are deposed, where do they go in exile...will the Saudis take them in or what?
I say that if the Mullahs in Iran go down, the piece process in the middle east take the fast freight to the station.
#6
SOG,
All the mullahs have to report to Somalia for piecekeeping duties - keep this piece of real estate picked up, that piece picked up, etc. Of course, much of what will have to be picked up are the leftover land mines, unexploded bombs, and dead bodies from the fighting between the various factions in the area. It's the right thing to do....
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
06/17/2003 11:42 Comments ||
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French troops have killed two militiamen during an exchange of fire in the Democratic Republic of Congo. The troops are from the international force that has been deployed to secure the north-eastern town of Bunia and protect the population from inter-ethnic clashes. French military spokesmen say two gunmen were killed after they opened fire at members of a French patrol, south west of Bunia. It is the first time that the international military force has killed local militiamen since being deployed 10 days ago.
Don'tcha hate it when your pot meat shoots back?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
06/17/2003 08:28 am ||
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Do you mean, the Frogs actually had guns and bullets that worked? WIll wonders never cease.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
06/17/2003 9:11 Comments ||
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*tisk, tisk* People, people, people -- there's nothing wrong with the FFL as fighting men. If anything, there as good a modern fighting force as any you will find in the world. It's their political leaders that are the problem. A good soldier follows orders, and in a democracy (and, yes, France is one kinda) it's the elected officials who give them.
#9
*tisk, tisk* People, people, people -- there's nothing wrong with the FFL as fighting men. If anything, there as good a modern fighting force as any you will find in the world. It's their political leaders that are the problem. A good soldier follows orders, and in a democracy (and, yes, France is one kinda) it's the elected officials who give them.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
