Michael Jackson fans held candlelight vigils around the world Saturday to support the pop megastar as he faces allegations of child molestation. I did not make this up, I say again, I did not make this up.
Faisal Malik, 29, a Los Angeles fan who helped organize a gathering near Jacksonâs star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, said he believes the performer is innocent. And I believe Faisalâs an imbecile.
"No other entertainer ever has opened his house so much to people," Malik said in a telephone interview. "True charity comes from the heart." I just pissed myself w/laughter
Rallies were scheduled through the weekend in more than a dozen cities, including New York, Budapest and Rome. Others were planned over the next week in China and Australia. More people are expected to actually show up then at the anti-Boosh rallies in London, weather permitting of course.
Jackson surrendered to Santa Barbara County authorities on Thursday after an arrest warrant was issued alleging that he committed lewd or lascivious acts with a child under 14. Authorities have said they expect to file formal charges sometime after Thanksgiving. After posting $3 million bail, Jackson flew to Las Vegas, where he had been working on a video. But his attorney, Mark Geragos, told the Los Angeles Times he planned to meet with Jackson at the starâs Neverland ranch near Santa Barbara on Saturday. Geragos, who has said Jackson denies the charges, did not return repeated calls Saturday from The Associated Press.
In Paris, âyou knew this was comingâ about 60 fans gathered on the Champs Elysees and marched through crowds of shoppers to the Arc de Triomphe. They held candles and banners with slogans of support and sang "We Are the World," the 1985 African famine relief anthem written by Jackson and Lionel Richie. Get a life losers.
"Itâs really hard for us," said Pascale Hatot, a 37-year-old fan from the suburbs of Paris. "I havenât been able to sleep or eat for three days." Holy f*ck, Iâm pissing myself again over that one.
Supporters in Rome gathered at the foot of the Spanish Steps just after darkness fell. They held candles and a sign in Italian that read: "Michael: Accused but not guilty!"
"There is an interest to see him fall as a man and as an artist," said Fabrizio Basili, a 30-year-old man from Rome who wore a black shirt bearing the image of Jacksonâs face. "His album âNumber Onesâ came out with some of his great hits, and the same day the accusations came and this is why weâre suspicious." The great Whacko Jacko Conspiracy, the Joos and the FBI waited to launch their heinous plot at such an undisclosed yet opportune time.......
Media reports have said Jacksonâs alleged victim is a 12- or 13-year-old cancer survivor who visited him at Neverland, where the singer was known to hold sleep-overs for children and share his bed with youngsters. WTF!? How old is this guy?! Get friends your own age sissy boy!
Stuart Backerman, a spokesman for the Jackson family, said the pop star was feeling "very positive" despite the allegations against him. "Heâs fine. Heâs fighting mad, thatâs what he is. Heâs outraged at these allegations. But he is doing fine," Backerman said Saturday. Backerman said Jackson had received hundreds of supportive e-mails and was buoyed by his fansâ loyalty. "Michael Jackson has said in the past that his fans are his most precious resource for molesting. Clearly, the demonstrations around the world reinforce his long-standing feelings for his fans," Backerman said. "Heâs grateful that they are so fucking stupidly insane." Sorry Fred, I know this off topic. MJ is what I call a domestic terrorist - first, for shitty music, and now, for being a pedofiler of little kids.
#1
I know you didn't make this up. I was flipping the TV off after seeing this on every news channel! And can you guess where Fox News taped a quick talk with the head of one of these 'vigils'?
If you said Paris, you're wrong! It was Berlin.
Posted by: Charles ||
11/22/2003 23:37 Comments ||
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Hey, pedophile extraterrestrials that want to probe Uranus need love, too.
#3
When Elvis died my Aunt and her daughter both went into mourning,wereing black,wailing,knashing teeth the whole 9 yards for 3 days.Proof positive tha idiocy runs rampant through the ages.
In 1981, Israel destroyed Iraqâs Osiraq / Tammuz I reactor. The reactor was part of Iraqâs nuclear weapons program. France assisted Iraq in the construction of the reactor itself, and sold weapons-grade uranium to Saddam. After Israel destroyed the reactor, there was a worldwide outrage at Israelâs act of aggression. Even Reagan condemned the destruction.
Oh well.
Posted by: Alex ||
11/22/2003 9:34:46 PM ||
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Another step towards making the world safer for the rest of us. Go Israel.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
11/22/2003 21:39 Comments ||
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This can't be good. If this sort of action is being contemplated, there's no reason to alert the mullahs and give them time to move things around. Better to leave them in the dark, and when the time comes, catch the mullahs with their turbans off.
#3
Sorry, Bomb, but Israel knows EXACTLY what they're doing! They WANT the Mullahs to try moving stuff around. That way, they can learn if there's more than one place to hit, and what it'll take to hit them. Our intel might be fooled on a few minor points, but theirs misses NOTHING! I wouldn't be surprised if our boys didn't help them this time - we both see the need to whack & stack the blackturbantops.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/22/2003 22:04 Comments ||
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Our intel might be fooled on a few minor points, but theirs misses NOTHING!
You got a point there. Their intel always seems to be pretty damned good.
#5
Their intel always seems to be pretty damned good.
It's more than their lives that depend upon it - their very existence as a nation, and as a people, rests on the quality of their intelligence. They know this, from the bottom to the top. They can't afford to make a single mistake.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/22/2003 22:53 Comments ||
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OP, the questions that has always bothered me is why Isreal hasn't already bombed Iranian reactors? I can understand us, being caught up with UN "diplomacy", but Isreal? There's an alterior motive besides having the Mullahs screw up. If that is they're true motive, they would have done it when they bombed Iraq's reactor in '81.
Posted by: Charles ||
11/22/2003 23:22 Comments ||
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The first federal law against unsolicited commercial e-mail is a step closer to reality today after the House of Representatives passed a bill that would punish spammers with fines and jail time.
About time, too...
The House voted 392-5 in favor of the bill, which clears it for a vote in the Senate. If the Senate approves the bill, it should reach the White House early next week, said Ken Johnson, a spokesman for House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman W.J. "Billy" Tauzin (R-La.). "Five years ago spam was a nuisance and now it's a nightmare," said long-time spam fighter Rep. Heather Wilson (R-N.M.). "I think today is a great victory for consumers in America. For the first time Americans who use the Internet and get e-mail will have the right to say ... take me off your list."
There are 370 messages in my "deleted" box at the moment, five legitimate messages in my inbox. I'd say things are out of hand.
The legislation would empower the Federal Trade Commission to establish a national "do-not-spam" list similar to the anti-telemarketing "do-not-call" list, and it would impose stiff jail sentences on e-mail marketers who violate the law. The compromise bill would also preempt tougher anti-spam laws already passed by the states.
I wonder if it also prohibits scraping websites for e-mail addresses?
FTC Chairman Timothy Muris has questioned the feasibility of a do-not-spam registry, saying it would be cumbersome to administer and wouldn't stop rogue spammers from sending unwanted mail.
It'd be easier to administer than the "do not call" list. Call me if you need help. Be prepared to give me money. Eliminating any "legitimate" spammers â assuming there are any â leaves only the rogues to deal with, and they should be put out of business. I'm thinking tar and feathers, but I guess that's not feasible.
Nevertheless, Muris today vowed to work with Congress as well as state and federal authorities to enforce the bill. "I appreciate the changes that the Congress made in the final bill to provide the Commission with useful tools that will enhance our ability to bring law enforcement actions against spam," Muris said in a prepared statement. The legislation would make it a crime â punishable by up to five years in jail â for e-mail marketers to mask their identities by falsifying their return addresses.
Current practice involves scraping legit addresses and using them as the return addresses in the spams. The real people take the nasty messages and have their IP addresses blocked, while the spammers get their one-hit-in-a-million.
Stiffening an anti-spam bill approved by the Senate last month, the compromise version would double the largest fines that could be imposed against spammers from $1 million to $2 million and remove a loophole that would have allowed marketers to dodge key provisions of the bill in cases where they have existing relationships with consumers, said Jennifer O'Shea, spokeswoman for Sen. Conrad Burns (R-Mont.).
Yeah. We've all "opted in" at some point, usually the point where our e-mail addresses went on our web sites...
Anti-spam advocates are unhappy because the deal struck today would invalidate tougher state anti-spam laws. California and Washington, for example, allow people to sue spammers, whereas the federal bill does not. California's law also allows fines against spammers of up to $1,000 per e-mail message with a cap at $1 million. Rep. John Dingell (D-Mich.), the top Democrat on the Energy and Commerce Committee, opposed the state preemption language and supported giving consumers the right to sue. Nevertheless, he defended the bill.
Give me half a chance and I'd be suing the pants off somebody...
"This is a good bill. There are things that we could have done that are a little better, but this is a piece of legislation that is going to solve a concern of the American people," he said. Some anti-spam experts also are skeptical of the congressional effort because it caters to groups like the Direct Marketing Association, which they consider to be not much different from fly-by-night anonymous spammers.
It's not...
The DMA, which for many years opposed anti-spam legislation, has been eager to get a federal bill on the books to protect their members from an increasingly thorny set of state-level anti-spam laws. The DMA supported the bill, but raised some concerns with the do-not-spam list, which they feared would harm "legitimate" marketers, while doing nothing to stop less scrupulous marketers. Rather than telling marketers to stop sending unsolicited messages, the bill creates a legal framework for e-mail marketers, and that sends the wrong message, said John Mozena, the co-founder of the Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email (CAUCE). "The problem today is not that there's too much unregulated spam, the problem is that there's too much spam in general," Mozena said.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
11/22/2003 12:08 ||
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#1
proweird+moderator@lists.elistx.com; on behalf of; cshepherd15@earthlink.net
From News Of The Weird
Illegal even if done to spammers !!
O Charles Booher, 44, was arrested in Sunnyvale, Calif., for going ballistic against the president of a Canadian spammer, DM Contact Management, which messed up Booher's computer for 2
months by overkill on pop-up ads for a product to make his clinton bigger. Booher apparently had threatened to sicken DM employees with anthrax and then torture and castrate them with a power drill before killing them (behavior which is apparently illegal even if done to spammers).
#3
Bayesian analysis of e-mail to filter spam, at the server level and at the personal level, probably offers a better way to fight the stuff than a law that can't be enforced very well. The hard-core spammers will move overseas where the law can't touch them. Hell, it's hard enough getting some governments to stop the Islamic "charity" dollars, think about getting them to fight spam.
Weakness of spam is that in the end, it sells something. That's how you fight it. I'm using a Bayesian filter on my e-mail (Apple mail) and having taught it what was spam and what wasn't, now I see hardly any spam at all.
PS: Fred, did you get the images I sent you? I promise they had nuttin' to do with the size of anyone's doinker!
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/22/2003 16:41 Comments ||
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They're posted below, under Iraq.
I use SpamAssassin to try and control it -- most spam goes directly to the Deleted box. But I've noticed that the number getting through is growing as they put in features to defeat the algorithms. F'rinstance, this seems to have worked for them:
Get a bar<!--basement-->gain for Via<!--decent-->gra, ha<!--hats hats hats-->rd to get dru<!--dont dispair somaman is here-->gs, So<!--tomarrow-->ma, fior<!--forever--<icet from yo<!--likie-->ur comp<!--cpu-->uter
comes through as
Get a bargain for Viagra, hard to get drugs, Soma, fioricet from your computer
All the comments break up the words that are keyed for rejection.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/22/2003 19:42 Comments ||
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#5
yahoo! I could post my email without adding NoSpam to the front of it
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/22/2003 23:46 Comments ||
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Tried to check-out the web site,couldnât get the link to work.Wanted to see a kubaton,I donât recognize the name.
You can shoot me an e-mail if you like.
w_r_manues@yahoo.com
Posted by: Raptor ||
11/22/2003 8:32:37 AM ||
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#1
Try this link for the Budget Warrior Kubaton. looks like a dildo. Just what were you going to do with it?
#2
Maybe cram it up some spammer's post-pie hole, sideways???? Works for me! Same for those crayon "Triton" missiles in Wednesday's parade in London. If any of those morons were forced to deep-throat THAT thing, I believe the world would have at LEAST one less idiotarian. Any decrease is appreciated.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/22/2003 14:36 Comments ||
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That spring-steel baton looks pretty interesting. For when the .45 is just a little too much. :)
US troops have captured four militants suspected of firing rockets at a base in a restive southeast border area dubbed âthe most evil place in Afghanistan,â a US military spokesman said on Friday. âCoalition forces brought under control four suspected anti-coalition militia in response to a rocket attack near Shkin firebase,â Lt Col Bryan Hilferty told reporters. The four, whose identities or affiliations were not revealed, were captured on Thursday. âThey fired a rocket at us, we sent a patrol and we found them at the vicinity of the rocket launch site,â Hilferty said.
A Saudi man wanted on several security-related charges has turned himself in to the authorities, the Interior Ministry said yesterday. Abdullah ibn Atiya ibn Hadid Al-Salmi âturned himself in to authorities Thursday,â said a ministry official, quoted by the Saudi Press Agency. The official urged other suspects to follow Salmiâs example âfor their own sake and that of their country.â Salmi is thought to be part of the Al-Qaeda network.
I don't know that this is a good sign. It could be an indication that Sheikh al-Hawali's offer of "mediation" has been taken, to the long-term detriment of us all, to include the Soddies. It could be isolated, Hawali showing he can deliver the goods if they do take the offer. Or Salmi might just want to avoid being bumped off in a gunfight. My initial guess would be the second alternative...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
11/22/2003 09:55 ||
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Security officers in Jeddah have arrested a five-member gang allegedly involved in burglary and kidnapping for ransom. Okaz newspaper named the five as Abdussattar, Muhammad Naseem, Muhammad Siraj, Dalwar and Mustafa Kareem. According to the Arabic daily, the gang abducted Nakeer Hassan Mumtaz, 45, and Muhammad Shah Aalam, 35, both Bangladeshis, and kept them in chains to force them to hand over their money. âThey took the two to an old house in the Nuzla district to chain them and torture them to get hold of their money,â the paper said.
Kinky...
The gang members, also Bangladeshis, beat one of the two captives to force him to reveal the PIN number for his ATM card. Initially resisting, the man after a series of beatings gave up the number. A member of the gang then went to the nearest ATM to take out the manâs entire savings of SR60,000 but became upset when he was only able to collect the daily limit of SR5,000. In order to withdraw the entire balance, the gang kept the two men in chains for 12 days. âThe gang members ... demanded SR100,000 from the captives in return for their release even after taking the SR60,000 from them,â the paper said. Jeddah Police Director Brig. Saleh Al-Olayan took a special interest in tracking down the gang members, who later admitted to their crime, it added.
"Ow! Ow! I confess! I dunnit!"
"Mahmoud, you may put down the pliers!"
Saudi police earlier arrested another gang of three Bangladeshis for abducting the wife of an expatriate worker and keeping her in a room in the Kandara area.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
11/22/2003 09:51 ||
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I would keep these a-holes in jail and extract a pint of blood a day for 12 days....heh heh
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/22/2003 10:15 Comments ||
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A court in Jeddah has sentenced seven individuals who participated in recent protests and obstructed security men from doing their job to jail terms ranging from one month to three months. They have also been ordered to sign an agreement that they would never again engage in the same offense. The court refused a request by the prosecuting attorney for a more severe sentence. Five of the seven confessed to participating in one way or another in the protest; they expressed their regret and assured the authorities they did not wish to provoke chaos and damage public welfare. This resulted in a jail sentence of one month for the five. The other accused, a Saudi and Sudanese, were sentenced to two and three months in prison respectively, with the Saudi being sentenced to an additional 60 lashes for not confessing nor acknowledging that he had done any damage to public welfare. The Sudanese will be deported after serving his jail term.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
11/22/2003 09:46 ||
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I guess the right to not self-incimmination would be an inovation for them.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/22/2003 11:53 Comments ||
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Self-incimmination? Is that something hermaphrodites do? ;)
Recently, Saudi Arabia's media strongly criticized three Saudi sheikhs, Muhsin Al-Awaji, Safar Al-Hawali, and Suleiman Al-Dawish, who called for dialogue between the Saudi regime and the armed groups responsible for the latest terror attacks in the country. The three sheikhs are affiliated with the extremist religious "reformists" who are demanding that Saudi Arabia cut ties with the U.S. and implement Shari'a law, which they claim is not fully applied in the country. In a statement issued by the Saudi Embassy in Washington, DC on November 13, 2003, the Kingdom "categorically denies media reports" that Crown Prince Abdullah discussed holding any form of dialogue with terrorists. According to the statement, "there was no incident of a group of [religious scholars] approaching the Crown Prince with such a proposal [to hold dialogue]." The following are excerpts from articles published in the Saudi press regarding the sheikhs' call for dialogue:
Heh heh. We called that one... Oh. Wait. That's right. It never happened.
Three days before the bombing in Riyadh, Sheikh Al-Awaji, Sheikh Al-Hawali, and Sheikh Al-Dawish recommended dialogue between the regime and the Jihad Youth group. In an interview with Al-Jazeera, Sheikh Al-Awaji stated that it was the Saudi regime that had lowered airfares to Afghanistan and urged preachers to exhort young men to go fight Jihad there. However, according to Al-Awaji, when these same young men returned to Saudi Arabia, it persecuted them. Sheikh Al-Awaji said that this persecution was unwarranted because neither the commandment of Jihad nor the infidels had changed. He called on the government to pardon the imprisoned Jihad Youth members and sheikhs, and said that 90 percent of the men wanted by the regime would be willing to turn themselves in, provided their honor was preserved and they received a fair trial.
Sheikh Al-Hawali proposed that Jihad Youth members phone him or come to his house to turn themselves in: "If one of them comes and surrenders through me, he can expect me to defend him to the best of my ability⊠Everyone knows my phone number, my address, and how to get to my house⊠If one of them speaks to me, I will contact the authorities immediately and tell them that he has spoken with me and that he should be allowed to come to me⊠Al-Hawali set out a series of conditions for the regime to meet: granting a general pardon to all prisoners and to anyone turning himself in; putting on trial investigators who dishonored, tortured, and insulted prisoners; rehiring all imams who were fired by the regime; and abolishing all laws made by man and placing the regime under Shari'a law; changing the judicial system; abolishing agreements and contracts not in accordance with Shari'a; abolishing vice that constitutes provocation for the imams; preventing authors of books that include heresy and mockery of the religion from writing, and doing the same regarding the media. He also demanded that the country resist external pressure "since many young men see this pressure as support [for infidels] and as hypocrisy. I know of no government in the world that would agree to a stronger government imposing its will on it⊠These pressures, which are designed to change our faith and our religion, and to create divisiveness among us, must be resisted. Sheikh Al-Hawali also demanded that the government rescind "recent wrong decisions, such as integrating the [girls' and the general] educational [systems], changing curricula, omitting matters concerning faith [from the curricula], and imposing compulsory education."
Sheikh Suleiman Al-Dawish, also speaking with Al-Jazeera, demanded "a reexamination of the country's handling of violence. In my estimation, accepting the military's view on how to treat young [religious] men does more harm than good, since the military usually prefers the language of force to the language of dialogue. Violence that arises from ideology requires dialogue, not repression."
Following the recent terror attacks in Riyadh, Saudi Interior Minister Prince Saud Nayef bin Abd Al-Aziz announced that there would be no dialogue with terrorists, saying: "We will talk with them only by rifle and sword." But then, the three sheikhs reemerged in the media, calling again for dialogue. Sheikh Al-Hawali said that 40 clerics were due to meet with Crown Prince Abdallah to discuss an initiative aimed at "sparing bloodshed by creating a dialogue between the government and the armed wanted men, persuading these wanted mento turn themselves in to the relevant authorities, and prevent violence." Sheikh Al-Hawali's partners in the initiative, Al-Dawish and Al-Awaji, said they had met with a "Saudi official" the day after the bombings and he had given them a "green light" to "meet with the young [wanted] men and report their views to the Saudi government, with the assurance that their demands would be viewed positively out of a desire to prevent bloodshed." Sheikh Al-Awaji even expressed his satisfaction over "the Saudi regime's positive attitude toward the initiative."
However, a Saudi government source hastened to deny that Crown Prince Abdallah had met with a group of clerics. He told the Saudi Information Agency that "this story is unfounded, and there is no intention to launch a dialogue of any kind with the terrorists." He said, "The clear and constant position of the country, as stated many times by the Crown Prince, is that terror must be fought in order to abolish and conclusively uproot it." The source added that "the wanted men can feel remorse over their abominable crimes and turn themselves in to the authorities unconditionally."
There follows the press excerpts from al-Watan, Okaz, al-Riyadh, etc. They make very interesting reading, though a bit long to post here. But it looks like we were right to take Dosari's remarks as an indication there was behind the scenes activity to heal the rift between the money men and Qaeda. Those discussions were probably going on even as the Riyadh attacks occurred, to Hawali's chagrin. The holy men then tried to pick them up again â and it looks like they were rebuffed, probably by King Fahd in a lucid moment — he was the one who supposedly made the "iron fist" remark — or, more likely, by the princes in concert. Now the Bad Guys will have to wait for the Arabian attention span to kick in. They should be ready for more talks in about three months, judging by the wake of the bombings in May. Since Hawali's bin Laden's "spiritual advisor," the "Jihad Youth" is a side issue; the princes would be negotiating directly with Binny (or his survivors). I'd also guess this is a tug of war we're going to see going on for years. Wahhabism is so tightly tied to al-Qaeda by now that giving up on Binny means giving up on their plans for world domination, at least until they come up with another tool that might not turn around and bite them.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
11/22/2003 00:38 ||
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The negotiation amid violence scenario has a hypnotic quality. They must be on some type of roadmap.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/22/2003 11:58 Comments ||
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Suspected terrorists in London tried to buy half a tonne of toxic chemicals in an attempt to launch a deadly poison attack, it has been claimed. The group allegedly tried to obtain 500kg of saponin, but their plan was thwarted when the suppliers became suspicious about the size of the order and contacted the police, the Financial Times reported. Attempts to buy the product from Amersham Biosciences were allegedly made in autumn 2002 by a firm giving a London post office address. Saponin can be used to enhance the transmission of molecules through biological cell membranes.
According to the FT, experts said the would-be purchasers might have thought they could mix it with ricin or other toxins to cause widespread poisoning by smearing it in public places. But there was uncertainty over whether this would have worked, with Jonathan Tucker from the Centre for Nonproliferation Studies of the Monterey Institute saying he doubted it was possible to absorb the large protein molecules of ricin through the skin. Lennart Arlinger, business development director of Amersham, said research showed the group trying to buy the goods was funded by the "Islamic community". He said they had claimed they wanted to use the saponin as "a fire retardant on rice intended for human consumption". Scotland Yard was unable to confirm any details of the reported plot.
Posted by: Bulldog ||
11/22/2003 6:28:22 AM ||
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If the method was questionable, smart terrorists would have ordered a small amount of chemicals and checked feasibility. I doubt that the brains of international terrorism have been captured in this case.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/22/2003 12:01 Comments ||
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The Federal Government says it has always believed French terrorist suspect Willie Brigitte was planning attacks in Australia. A French news agency reports officials there say a man they are questioning has told them Mr Brigitte was planning an attack in Australia. Investigators say 37-year-old suspect Ibrahim Keita told them Mr Brigitte told him that he had a plan, but did not mention a possible target or time frame. Mr Brigitte lived in Australia for five months before his expulsion in October. News agency AFP reports a French official says Mr Keita, like Mr Brigitte, is being investigated by French police. Mr Brigitte, 35, is reported to have made the remarks during a telephone conversation while he was in Australia. Federal Attorney-General Philip Ruddock says although he cannot confirm the reports, they are not surprising. "I can't comment on the accuracy of those reports, but we have always believed this was a very serious investigation and that his intentions in Australia were to intend some harm," he said. "I believe that agencies have been pursuing all avenues of inquiry thoroughly and it's best that they continue with those inquiries unfettered by comments from me."
"I mean, the guy's a terrorist. What did you think he was gonna do?"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
11/22/2003 00:25 ||
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Or "Political Correctness Overrules Awkward Truths (Again)".
The European Unionâs racism watchdog has shelved a report on anti-semitism because the study concluded Muslims and pro-Palestinian groups were behind many of the incidents it examined. The Vienna-based European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC) decided in February not to publish the 112-page study, a copy of which was obtained by the Financial Times, after clashing with its authors over their conclusions.
The news comes amid growing fears that there is an upsurge of anti-semitism in European Union countries. Among many recent incidents, a Jewish school near Paris was firebombed last Saturday, the same day two Istanbul synagogues were devastated by suicide truck bombs that killed 25 and wounded 300. Turkey, which hopes to join the EU, suffered again at the hands of what are believed to be al-Qaeda inspired terrorists on Thursday with truck bomb attacks on British targets.
Following a spate of incidents in early 2002, the EUMC commissioned a report from the Centre for Research on Anti-semitism at Berlinâs Technical University. When the researchers submitted their work in October last year, however, the centreâs senior staff and management board objected to their definition of anti-semitism, which included some anti-Israel acts. The focus on Muslim and pro-Palestinian perpetrators, meanwhile, was judged inflammatory. "There is a trend towards Muslim anti-semitism, while on the left there is mobilisation against Israel that is not always free of prejudice," said one person familiar with the report. "Merely saying the perpetrators are French, Belgian or Dutch does no justice to the full picture."
Some EUMC board members had also attacked part of the analysis ascribing anti-semitic motives to leftwing and anti-globalisation groups, this person said. "The decision not to publish was a political decision." An ere wuz me finkin right-wing politics wuz synonymious wiv racism. Swot I wuz taught in school.
The board includes 18 members - one for each member state, the European Commission, Parliament, and the council of Europe - as well as 18 deputies. One deputy, who declined to be named, confirmed the directors had seen the study as biased. In July, Robert Wexler, a US congressman, wrote to Javier Solana, the EUâs foreign policy chief, demanding the release of the study. Ole Espersen, law professor at Copenhagen University and board member for Denmark, said the study was "unsatisfactory" and that some members had felt anti-Islamic sentiment should be addressed too. Must. Try to. Complete. Circle.
The EUMC, which was set in 1998, has published three reports on anti-Islamic attitudes in Europe since the September 11 attacks in the US. Beate Winkler, a director, said the report had been rejected because the initial time scale included in the brief - covering the period between May and June 2002 - was later judged to be unrepresentative. "There was a problem with the definition [of anti-semitism] too. It was too complicated," she said. An alumnus of the Clintonian School of Denial and Obfuscation?
Posted by: Bulldog ||
11/22/2003 11:49:29 AM ||
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Has the entire study been leaked yet? If it hasn't, it is bound to in the end.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/22/2003 12:08 Comments ||
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They didn't arrive at the 'Progressive' conclusion: it's not terrorism anti-semitism, it's all the JOOOS fault.
Now they need to gin up another 'study' about how muslims are being oppressed by the U.S. Should take about 10 minutes.
#3
like the hayes report, the media is not giving it much attention.
Repeat after me "LIBERAL BIAS"!!!
Posted by: joe ||
11/22/2003 13:14 Comments ||
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#4
The EU doesn't have the stones to publish the truth so they bury the report. They truly are afraid of their Muslims, are they not? I'd call it "self-imposed dhimmitude". Pathetic.
Posted by: Mark ||
11/22/2003 14:19 Comments ||
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#5
Of course it's an unsatisfactory study! I didn't see anything in there about all those Jewish suicide bombers blowing up mosques! oh, wait.....mabye there's a reason for that....
Posted by: S ||
11/22/2003 15:20 Comments ||
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Some new details, snip as needed.
A DOZEN suspects were last night being interrogated by anti-terror police investigating the twin suicide bomb blasts in Istanbul that left 27 people dead.
When it comes to large men with moustachios and truncheons, Turkey sets the standard...
Those held were also being questioned about attacks on two synagogues in Turkeyâs largest city last weekend that killed 23 people. As al-Qaida claimed responsibility for the attacks, police revealed Islamic radicals who had fought in Chechnya, Afghanistan and Bosnia had slipped into the country. Foreign governments, including the US and Britain, cautioned that terrorists could strike again and issued travel warnings to their citizens. The warnings came as the first funerals of those killed in Thursdayâs attack on the British Consulate and the Turkish headquarters of the HSBC bank were carried out. The pain felt by relatives of those who died was compounded by the knowledge that the suicide bombers who carried out the attacks were fellow Turks.
I wonder what the reaction would have been had the suicide bombers been Soddies?
Investigators identified them as Azad Ekinci and Feridun Ugurlu. Reports earlier this week named Ekinci and Ugurlu as accomplices in the synagogue bombings, saying the men used fake identities and cash to buy the pickup trucks containing the bombs. Ekinci is said to have travelled to Iran, received military and explosives training in Pakistan between 1997-99 and fought in Chechnya.
That bit about travelling to Iran interests me. They keep mentioning it...
Turkeyâs top political and military leaders met on Friday to discuss intelligence reports that Turks who fought in places such as Afghanistan may be in league with al-Qaida.
Golly. Y'think?
Outside the shattered HSBC headquarters, workers used a bulldozer to scoop up burned and twisted pieces of metal and crushed office furniture. In front of the consulate, much of the rubble had already been cleared away. British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, who rushed to Istanbul following the attack on the consulate, said the city may have been selected "because Turkey is a successful democracy."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/22/2003 10:32:00 AM ||
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Thanks for the link, missed that earlier. It does appear that Iran is the boogi man. Iran will have that bomb. Does Turkey care?
Turkeyâs latest outbreak of terrorism was hatched in an Internet cafe in this mountain-ringed southeastern Kurdish town, investigators say. A sign on the wall of the Bingol Internet Merkezi Cafe warns users that it is "definitely banned to enter sites ... targeting the state, country and its inseparable integrity and constitutional order." Most of the users, teenage boys engrossed in noisy games of computer soccer, seem happy to comply.
Normal teenage boys are more concerned with games, sports and the occasional babe...
But two other young men — the son of one cafe owner and the brother of the other — who came here regularly, blew themselves up in the suicide bombings last weekend that set Turkey reeling. Police raided the cafe this week and confiscated files, apparently on suspicion that the cafe may have linked the bombers to the larger world of Islamic terrorism, including al-Qaida.
All the little ones and zeroes don't care where they go...
Accessible only by a winding two-lane road, the town first hit the front pages when an earthquake registering 6.4 on the Richter scale killed more than 170 in the area in early May. Shock waves struck again last week when Turkish leaders named it as the hometown of two suicide bombers who killed themselves and 23 others and injured 300 more when they detonated explosives-laden Isuzu pick-ups in front of two synagogues in Istanbul last Saturday. Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul has said the two had visited Afghanistan. Turkish media reported that one trained in Iran in 2001. U.S. intelligence officials said both trained in al Qaida camps in Afghanistan, and returned to Turkey in 2001. Police now are investigating two accomplices, at least one of them from Bingol, who left Turkey on Oct. 28 for Dubai. The pair slipped back into Turkey to carry out Thursdayâs suicide bombings at the British consulate and London-based HSBC bank headquarters in Istanbul, the Turkish daily Hurriyet reported Friday.
That kind of implies Bingol's a local navel of terrorism, doesn't it?
These three are accused of planning the attacks under the noses of Turkish troops who rule Bingol with an iron grip. How they got away with it shows how hard it is to prevent terrorism. One possible explanation for the bombings lies in the sharp religious and political divisions among Kurds whoâve clashed among themselves for decades in their struggles for local autonomy. These divisions persist even if local extremist groups are no longer viable, said Nihat Ali Ozcan, a terrorism expert based in Ankara. With al-Qaida, "they learn about different groups coming up with more global solutions to what they are opposed to and latch on."
The Turk-Kurdish tensions set up the conditions Qaeda tries to take advantage of...
Residents in this town of 250,000 said they canât believe one of their own would accept al-Qaida or its methods. No one likes Osama bin Laden and they abhor the recent attacks, they said. But most refused to talk to outsiders about them. The uncle of suicide bomber Gokhan Elaltuntas, 24, who Turkish officials said carried out the attack against the Neve Shalom synagogue in Istanbul last Saturday made an exception. "This has put a total shame on the whole family," Sevfet Elaltuntas, 52, explained. "This does not really suit at all our family morals and virtues. The whole Elaltuntas family has good relations with the (Turkish) security and military. We are trades people and do business with them."
That fits the pattern, too. It's not the poor and the dispossessed who make the Qaeda recruits, but the guys from the middle class.
His uncle last talked to Elaltuntas two nights before the blast. The young man, who ran a cell phone shop in Istanbul, said he was coming home this weekend to celebrate the breaking of the Ramadan fast, after which he was scheduled to marry his fiancee from Turkeyâs capital, Ankara. His nephew was so averse to bloodshed that he didnât have the stomach to skin the fowl and rabbits he and his friends hunted, Elaltuntas said. "He must have been brainwashed in Istanbul. He wasnât extremist, definitely not. He never expressed a political thought."
The same people who go out and demonstrate in favor of the Bad Guys here are the ones who join PETA and ALF.
Residents of Bingol take pride in their conservatism, and virtually all women here wear Islamic head scarves. There is no graffiti, pro-militant or otherwise, on buildings or walls. Sermons delivered in its mosques are written by Turkeyâs state-run religious authority. Most men on the streets smoke cigarettes during the holy fasting month of Ramadan, when believers are supposed to abstain. But Turkish authorities say Bingol town and province are rife with Islamic extremists. Twelve "terrorists" were killed in the province on Wednesday night alone, Turkish justice minister Cemil Cicek told parliament Thursday. Authorities said most of them were part of a Kurdish faction called Turkish Hezbollah, a Sunni Islamic group with at most a few thousand followers not linked to the Lebanese Shiite Muslim group of the same name. The handful of Bingol residents who agreed to be interviewed claim the group formed in the early 1980s and was allowed to operate because its members fought against other autonomy-seeking Kurdish rebels. "The state has built it, established it and then couldnât handle it," said one 33-year-old businessman, who refused to give his name.
"Dr. Frankenstein, call your office!"
Disillusionment spread among these extremists, experts said, after last yearâs election of an Islamic party that has tried to strengthen Turkeyâs ties to the United States and sought Turkeyâs admission into the European Union. "When you look at it from the perspective of al Qaida or Hezbollah, this government itself, although Islamic, represents the antithesis of (the extremistsâ) global agenda," Turkish columnist Semih Idiz told Israel Radio Thursday. "Itâs a government that is showing that Islam and modernity are not mutually exclusive."
So proper Islamists have to prove them wrong...
Suicide bombers such as Elaltuntas donât on the surface fit the profile of disillusioned extremists, however. Neither did the 9/11 hijackers.
His uncle, Hassan Aktash, described him as very private and quiet. The second of six children, he barely left Bingol before his move to Istanbul. If he was passionate, it was about Turkish soccer, Aktash said. The other synagogue bomber, Mesut Cabuk, was an acquaintance, the uncle said. His nephew was a lifelong friend of Azad Ekinci, he added, the missing accomplice whose brother opened the Bingol Internet Merkezi Internet cafe with Elaltuntasâ father two years ago. "Gokhan was a normal Muslim," said Aktash, 31, who has managed the Internet cafe since Elaltuntas moved to Istanbul on May 10. "He practiced Namaz (prayers). He had a short beard, like me. He never expressed views about Osama bin Laden." Elaltuntas and Ekinci spent a lot of time together in the cafe, one of roughly a dozen in town, Aktash said. Aktash said he overheard Ekinci tell his brother in mid-October that he was going on a business trip to Dubai. Ekinci encountered al-Qaida during his travels, Sevfet Elaltuntas surmised. "The police told us that in twelve months, he was in Turkey two and outside the other ten," he said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/22/2003 1:07:07 AM ||
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Profiles! Getcher profiles! Y'can't tell the jihadis without a profile!
The Government of Pakistan banned three more religious organisations on Thursday and since people know very little about their background, Daily Times compiled their profiles below:
Jamaatul Furqan (JF): The JF is a breakaway faction of the TKI and was formed on September 25 when the TKI led by Maulana Masood Azhar reached an agreement over distribution of TKI assets with Commander Abdul Jabbarâs group. The two groups also agreed on a âcode of conductâ and a name change for the Jabbar group at a meeting in Lahore. Maulana Jabbar and Commander Umar led the breakaway faction. They accused Maulana Azhar, former head of the banned Jaish-e-Muhammad, of embezzling funds and disagreeing with his jihadi policies. Not only that, the two groups clashed for control of assets, such as the TKIâs Karachi headquarters Markaz-e-Batha. One man was reported injured in a gunbattle outside the Markaz on April 14. At the September 25 meeting, the Jabbar group agreed to take the name Jamaatul Furqan in exchange for Rs 1.5 million and a white Toyota Corolla 1988 model car. The Umar group also agreed to destroy the receipts of cheques it had for fundraising under the name of TKI. After reconciliation, Commander Umar became Nazim-e-Aala, Maulana Abdullah Shah Mazhar was named Ameer for Pakistan and Commander Jabbar was made supreme commander, while he was under arrest for the Taxila church explosion and an attack on a missionary in Murree in 2002. Before reconciliation, Masood Azhar wrote a letter to intelligence agencies against 10 of his partymen including Commander Jabbar and other leaders of the breakaway faction. The letter was published in the national press after which Commander Jabbar and others were arrested in July 2003.
Cheeze. He turned them in to the Feds! Whatever happened to omerta?
When the Jabbar group began a campaign against Maulana Azhar, TKI (Azhar group) made public a 30-page report âConspiracy against Mujahideenâ. The report made it clear that the TKI did not resort to terror operations in Pakistan and said that it was the Jabbar group that began such operations and attacked churches and missionaries.
Jamaitul Ansar (JA): The JA was the new name given to Deobandi jihadi organisation Harkatul Mujahideen (HM) in March 2003 to escape a ban. But it was not included in the list of organisations banned on January 12, 2002. The JA went through several changes over the years. In 1993, the HM merged with the Harkatul Jihadul Islami to form what came to be knows as Harkatul Ansar (HA). In 1995, an organisation called Al Faran kidnapped American, German, British and Norwegian tourists in Pehlgam in held-Kashmir. The two commanders who set up the group belonged to the HM were Abdul Hammad Turkey and Commander Sikandar. The kidnapped tourists were to be used as a leverage to get Maulana Azhar, commander Shahid Afghani and others freed. The US declared it a terrorist group. The HA was divided into two groups. Chief of HM Maulana [Fazlur Rehman] Khalil came under pressure and he denounced the Al Faran group. Both the commanders were killed later, which made it easier for Maulana Khalil to part ways from Al Faran. The HA split in 1996. The HM was shocked when Maulana Azhar formed Jaish Muhammad in February 2000. A large number of its mujahideen joined Maulana Azhar. When the US attacked Afghanistan in 1998, two HM training camps were destroyed and 21 mujahideen killed. The HM fought against Americans with the Taliban. But the organisation had a major setback when some of its leaders parted ways and formed a faction as Harkatul Mujahideen Al Almi (HMA). Later it established relations with Lashkar-e-Jhangvi. Maulana Khalil transformed the group into Jamaitul Ansar.
Hizbut Tahrir (HT): The HT is an international organisation working for the establishment of a Khilafat (caliphate) in the world and claims it has an alternative system. The HT has a network in 50 countries but in Pakistan it began working in August 1999 with Naveed Butt as the groupâs official spokesman for Pakistan. Mr Butt told Daily Times in an interview that the HT considered militancy or use of weapons for the establishment of a caliphate as Haram (forbidden). âWe believe in a peaceful change,â he said. However, many of its leaders like Mr Butt and Taimur Butt have been detained many a time in the past.
Are they the Butt Buddies? (Sorry. I could't resist. Sorry...)
âThe HT has convinced six powerful people to help the organisation set up a caliphate,â Mr Butt said. When asked to disclose the âpowerfulâ personsâ names, he said the HT was still working on the plan.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
11/22/2003 00:25 ||
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The Jamaat-e-Islami (JI) has slammed President Pervez Musharrafâs statement that the tribal system would gradually come to an end, saying the president was âsowing the seed of rebellionâ among the tribal people.
They expect the tribal system to go on forever and ever...
âThe tribal people will not allow anyone to play with their customs and traditions,â Zarnoor Afridi, the JIâs provincial deputy general secretary, said in a press statement on Friday. Mr Afridi predicted that Musharraf statement might lead to an end to his rule. He said the tribal people were united under the banner of the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal and would resist any attempt to interfere in the tribal way of life. âThe tribesmen will not tolerate the introduction of the system that applies to the settled areas,â he said.
Not that the system that applies in Pakland's settled areas is all that great, but the system of tribal autonomy that prevails now tries to extend the benefits of development without any of the responsibilities that would normally be involved â starting with civilized behavior. They want the roads, but to be able to travel to bump each other off or to smuggle drugs more conveniently. They want the hospitals to bind up their wounds after shootouts. Leaving the tribals on their own leaves them free to continue their Taliban-style ways, to harbor bad guys from across the border and from out of the country. Since the Taliban style is the Jamaat's ultimate objective, their hypocrisy must be pretty transparent, even to the rest of Pakland, where people are normally willing to believe five impossible things before breakfast.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
11/22/2003 00:25 ||
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#1
Afghanistan conceded the tribal areas to the British empire for a limited duration, I think it was 100 years. This treaty is now expired so in theory the tribal areas should be returned to Aghanistan (I suspect that most non-Pashtuns and the reasonable Pahtuns wouldn't want of them in Aghanistan until they are desnutified).
In order to prevent this, Pakitan's politics have had three constants: 1) make Afghanistan a hell hole through provoking civil wars and supporting the most nutso Pashtun and Sunni supremacists
2) Litterally buy the inhabitants of the tribal areas who are free to establish in all of Pakistan, are exempt of taxes, have self-government and are de-facto allowed to engage into all kinds of smuggling and other illegal activity. Not that it benefits the tribal areas so much: I heard of a village where they had made a lot of money in puppy trading but still had no well: all the money had been used in polygamous marriages and pilgrimages to Mecca
3) Fan fundamentalism in those regions in order to
keep nationalism down. Fund the Deobandi school and the hundreds of madrassas who produce thousands and thousands of fanatics dreaming of Islamic unity (meaning no rivalry with the Punjabis who rule Pakistan), willing to keep the NWFP in 11th century and to go kill kaffirs in Cashmere and Afghanistan (including Shias and Sunnis opposing the Taliban)
#3
all the money had been used in polygamous marriages and pilgrimages to Mecca
But that's not a problem. Nope. Nope. That's what money's for...
Posted by: Fred ||
11/22/2003 8:44 Comments ||
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#4
> > all the money had been used in polygamous marriages and pilgrimages to Mecca
> But that's not a problem. Nope. Nope. That's what money's for...
Well I can understand people spending money on women (except that they get a BIG surprise, when they lift the burkha) but not people who spend it on making the Saudis fatter
An Al Qaeda man taken as one of the top 10 wanted men was identified as Samarkand, who was killed during the October 2 military operation in Baghar area in South Waziristan Agency, sources told Daily Times on Friday.
"Samarkand" would be Habis Abdullah al-Saoub, an American of Jordanian extraction. He's on the FBI list, with a $5 million reward for his hide.
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) officials were shown the bodies of the eight killed Al Qaeda suspects somewhere outside the tribal areas. âWe did not identify the man to be among the top 10 Al Qaeda wanted men,â Pakistani security agencies said. âBut the FBI men helped us identify him as Samarkand, an Uzbek national,â they said.
Jordanian, Uzbek, whatever. Guess it depends on which passport he was carrying. Last month Beebs thought he was Jordanian-American.
Sources said a Chinese Muslim was also among the dead Al Qaeda suspects during the operation, but intelligence officials did not say if Pakistan had informed Beijing about the Chinese national among the casualties.
They'd probably like to cross him off their list, whoever it is, if he's on it. If he's not, they'd really like to talk to his friends and acquaintances...
Sources said it might take two months to interrogate the arrested 18 suspects. âThe report will be presented to President Pervez Musharraf who will decide what to do with them,â they added. Asked why the interrogation would take so much time, sources said, âWe donât want to leave anything to chance.â
"We like to take our time at these things..."
However, their observation that the arrested suspects were ignorant of Islamic teachings was a matter of surprise. âSome of them could not read even Kalma (the first basic injunction of Islam to determine oneâs belief) while others did not know how to say their prayers. âWe think they are mercenaries,â officials said.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
11/22/2003 00:25 ||
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n Al Qaeda man taken as one of the top 10 wanted men was identified as Samarkand ...
Unless we have the head or both hands I'm not willing to believe it. Too many of these deaders have come back to life. It's worse than a George Romero movie.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/22/2003 3:15 Comments ||
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Law enforcement agencies in Rawalpindi and Islamabad closed four offices of recently banned religious organisations on Friday. Following the Interior Ministryâs instructions, the police made several raids and sealed four âsub-officesâ in Rawat, Ghangi Sayidan, Talk Kalan and Taxila on the fringes of the two cities. Intelligence agencies have also been asked to liaise with the police and share information on the banned groupsâ active members who have been underground for several months. âPolice conducted several raids in the surrounding areas of the federal capital but we couldnât find any offices or representatives of the banned organisations in remote or urban areas,â Islamabad Senior Superintendent of Police (SSP) Shahid Nadeem Baloch told Daily Times.
"I mean, like, we knocked and everything, but they said there wudn't nobody there..."
He said special police parties had been formed to arrest active members of defunct organisations and they were directed to raid any place on authentic information. âWe are also questing owners of printings presses about the members of banned religious groups who used to go there for printing of pamphlets and other material,â Rawalpindi District Police Officer Syed Marwat Ali Shah said. A number of police officials will go over the record of the religious extremists recently granted bail by courts, he added.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
11/22/2003 00:25 ||
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Bangladeshi police used batons to break up Muslim religious groups clashing over a mosque in Dhaka on Friday, leaving 35 people injured, a television network reported. Among the injured were 10 policemen who took action after a group of Muslims from the majority Sunni community tried to storm a mosque of a rival Qadiani sect in north Dhakaâs Nakhalpara district after weekly Friday prayers.
"Yee-haw! I'm a Muslim and you ain't!"
"Die, infidel! I'm a Muslim and you ain't!"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
11/22/2003 00:25 ||
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Good Christ, they're as bad as the honkeys in N. Ireland!
:)
Guerrillas who attack civilians in Iraq for collaborating with the U.S.-led coalition are committing war crimes, a human rights group said Saturday. International humanitarian law forbids targeting civilians, New York-based Human Rights Watch noted in a statement. "Civilians working for the occupying power are not legitimate targets of attack," Human Rights Watch said.
Oh, you noticed, did you?
The statement cited attacks on translators, government officials and community leaders, including Aquila al-Hashimi, a member of Iraqâs U.S.-appointed Governing Council who was gunned down near her Baghdad home on Sept. 20. "All Iraqi civilians are protected by the Geneva Conventions," said Joe Stork, acting executive director of the Middle East and North Africa division. "It doesnât matter whether they sympathize with the U.S. occupation, or with the insurgents." Human Rights Watch also cited the deaths of Sargoun Murado, who represented Assyrian Christians on the municipal council of the southern city of Basra; two prominent judges, Muhan Jabir al-Shuwaili and Ismail Yusif; and Faris Abdul-Razzaq al-Asam, Baghdadâs deputy mayor.
Why would Sammy's sympathizers start paying attention to human rights now, when they didn't before? If they had then, we wouldn't be there now.
... Also on Saturday morning, a DHL courier plane landed safely at Baghdad International Airport after a heat-seeking surface-to-air missile hit one of its engines, according to military sources at the airport. No one was injured. The aircraft had just taken off when it was hit by a SAM-7, sources said. A fire in one of the engines was extinguished after the plane landed, the sources said. A military source said the missile had a one-pound warhead -- not big enough to bring down a large aircraft, but enough to cause damage. Missiles have been fired several times at planes approaching the airport. Saturdayâs incident was the first time a fixed-wing aircraft had been hit since President Bush declared an end to major combat operations May 1. And this is relevant to the story because....??
In recent weeks, five U.S. helicopters have crashed or been shot down, killing 39 soldiers. Helicopters are different from airplanes. Yes we get it, thank you.
Posted by: Rafael ||
11/22/2003 6:01:45 PM ||
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And this is relevant to the story because....??
Because the hotel's bar just closed and he realised he hadn't filed a story in two days?
Link requires registration...
Staff Sgt. Gina Gray, a broadcast journalist assigned to the 173rd Airborne Brigade, found herself in the unusual position of playing doctor, nurse and midwife to an Iraqi mother too poor to afford a trip to the hospital to give birth. "Thank god I've watched 'E.R.,'" was about all she could mutter as she emerged, from the building holding a baby boy. The newborn, Zuher Ahmed Mohowed, was not even an hour old.
While searching a house in Kirkuk Nov. 17, the paratroopers of Company B, 2nd Battalion, 503rd Infantry (Airborne) were asked by the house owner not to disturb one of the rooms. Further investigation with an interpreter only revealed that there was a 'sick woman' inside. The commander in the area, trying to be sensitive to the owner's wishes while still wanting to conduct a thorough search, sent for the only female soldier in the area, Gray. Putting her video camera aside, she approached the house and was told to see if everything was ok in there and "oh, by the way, see if there are any weapons in the room while you're at it."
"I really had no idea what to expect," Gray said. "When I went in there, the baby had just finished coming out. She, the mother, was just laying there in pain and the other women were wiping the baby down." It is often said that "timing is everything," and if that's true, then Gray's timing is surely something. She entered the room as the umbilical cord was about to be cut and the women were attempting to extract the placenta. Within moments, she stuck her head out the door, asked that no one come in and that someone get her a combat lifesaver's bag. "She was pretty surprised to see me I think," Gray said. "She saw me walk through the door. I mean think about it, here I am with a weapon and body armor, and she's just had a baby.â
Gray took off her body armor and helmet to let everyone in the room know she was there to help. âThey were more impressed when I took off my Kevlar and they saw the hair," Gray said. The baby had just been born and a few moments old at the most. "They cut the cord and got the placenta out and that's when I called for the combat lifesaver's bag and the medic," she said. "She was trying to push out the placenta and they wanted me to help by putting my hands up there. That finally got out and I noticed she was torn pretty badly."
Spc. Anthony Durate, the medic at the scene, helped Gray. Duarte had helped deliver a baby as a civilian, but this was his first in Iraq and his first under such austere conditions. "I walked in there about the time the placenta was out," Duarte said. "I gave her some pain medication, some morphine, and checked her vitals. I just did what I could do. I talked through the interpreter and was able to give her some medication and then get an IV into her."
The baby boy, Zuher, is doing fine. "I just didn't want all of you coming in there," she said with a grin to the male soldiers. "I didn't want any of the tough infantry guys fainting."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
11/22/2003 11:27 ||
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Steve White sends me these, with his comments...
Two photos from Yahoo. One is of Lt. Col. Steve Russell of the 1/22, and part of the Army of Steveâ¢. We talk about him enough and I found this as part of today's slideshow of top news.
Second photo is Izzit Ibrahim's house, shortly after.
Anybody have an e-mail address for Col. Steve? Some of us would like to send him fan mail, I'm sure...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
11/22/2003 10:38 ||
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Col. Steve RAWKS!! :)
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
11/22/2003 11:17 Comments ||
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My one goal in life is to be an honorary SteveTM one day!
Posted by: Dar ||
11/22/2003 11:57 Comments ||
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"It's hard to trust a guy not named Steve." --- Mystery Science Theater 3000
Two car bombs exploded Saturday at police stations in two towns near Baghdad, killing 12 people, all but one of them policemen. The first blast occurred in Baquba, about 35 miles northeast of Baghdad. Minutes later, the second blew up in Khan Bani Saad, a crowded market town about 12 miles south of Baqouba on the road to Baghdad. Lt. Hussein Hazem said six officers died in the Baqouba explosion, which left a large hole at the entrance to the building. He said at least 10 civilians were hurt. The explosion in Khan Bani Saad, which was carried out by a suicide driver, killed a 6-year-old girl and five policemen, according to Maj. Jabar Hussein of the local civil defense force. A 6 year old. Fisk and the BBC did a lot of heart-rending stories on the child victims of "Mr. Bushâs war" (never "Mr. Husseinâs war," or the "war incited by Saddamâs faith in the fifth column media"). Donât hold your breath for a similar story on this innocent baby, though. Dead children are no concern to the "peace" movement unless their broken bodies can serve as a propaganda club for beating down the anti-jihad forces.
The Iraqi police will do one of two things; they will either cave to the jihadis, or they will go completely medieval on them.
I'd say go midieval, but that would be bad for Iraq in the long run. They can also do the third thing, which is continue the way they've been going, which has been doing their jobs and methodically putting the Bad Guys away. That's what'll work best in the long run.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy ||
11/22/2003 4:11:25 AM ||
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Theses bastards are equal opportunities killers, age doesn't count. Poor child.
Putting victims in different categories due to your worldview is nothing new; I don't know for US media, but for instance israeli casualties are usually denied any humanity (ie no mention of age & sex, no hospital visits, no voice given to their family), unlike palestinian ones, and that's an unmistakable trend. There 's a good suffering, one you can relate to, and an irrelevant suffering, or so say the media.
Once seen as a success story for a U.S. occupation aimed at peaceful rebuilding, this northern city seems more like a battlefield to many people. Mosul has seen a surge of guerrilla attacks in recent weeks and it also has become the scene of the worst single loss of American life since the invasion of Iraq — the collision of two Black Hawk helicopters last weekend that killed 17 U.S. soldiers and injured five. Mixed population, enough Sunnis around to cause trouble, lots of nooks and crannies in the wilderness nearby for the jihadis, and too many weapons lying around.
U.S. authorities investigating the crash say it could have been an accident, although some witnesses said the helicopters were trying to avoid gunfire and others said one had been hit by a missile. Regardless of the cause, the crash revealed simmering resentment to the U.S. occupation among some in Iraqâs third largest city, which is outside the ``Sunni Triangle,ââ the central region that was the center of Saddam Husseinâs support and has seen the most bloodshed since his ouster. ``I was happy because they (the Americans) are our enemies. They persecute us,ââ said Rashad Hamid, a ungrateful resident in one of two neighborhoods where wreckage of the helicopters landed. ``The day after the crash, I tried to go out to pray and a soldier pushed me inside. Should I hate him or not?ââ Depends Rashad — are you a dumbass? Nawaf Salah, who lives in the same neighborhood, believes guerrillas shot down the helicopters. ``Itâs their right,ââ he said. ``This is our country, not theirs. Why are they (the Americans) here?ââ They helped get rid of Uday and Qusay. Not too far around from Mosul. Remember?
On Tuesday, two U.S. soldiers were wounded in Mosul when a bomb went off near their foot patrol. On Nov. 5, gunmen injured five Americans here in a number of attacks that also killed three Iraqis. On Nov. 1, two U.S. soldiers were killed and two injured in a roadside bombing. A few Iraqis believed to be cooperating with the Americans have been gunned down. Itâs been an abrupt change for the city. For months, Mosul was relatively quiet and U.S. soldiers focused on rebuilding infrastructure. The attackers are trying ``to impede this heroic cityâs march toward peace and progress,ââ Ahmed Chalabi, a leading member of Iraqâs Governing Council, said during a visit this week. ``The more progress achieved the more these people try to do their operations.ââ Maybe we should give Mosul to the Kurds. They seem to know how to handle this.
The bloodshed has raised fears that Mosul could be a new battleground for insurgents who have been staging more attacks outside the Sunni Triangle. ``There are former regime members who want to disrupt the successes achieved here in the north,ââ Maj. Gen. David Petraeus, commander of the 101st Airborne Division, said in an interview before the crash. And hereâs the lede:
Although Mosul has sizable Kurdish and Christian communities, it has a Sunni Muslim majority that was a stronghold of support for Saddamâs regime. Abdul Jabbar Abid Mustafa, dean of Mosul Universityâs school of political science, suspects some guerrillas who were active in central Iraq may have moved to Mosul. "Maybe some of those who advocate resistance in the south have moved to the north for tactical reasons ... so that at the time when the Americans are expecting an operation in Tikrit, it happens in Mosul and takes them by surprise,ââ he said.
I'd guess that was the strategy...
U.S. troops in Mosul have stepped-up security measures, searching more vehicles and carrying out more raids and arrests while trying to avoid angering the public. ``We want to continue to be seen as an army of liberation and not an army of occupation,ââ Petraeus said. That could be a challenge.``When they want to search homes, they break the doors, draw their guns and barge in on women and children at three (in the morning) without asking for permission,ââ said Salem al-Haj, a city council member. ``This will generate hatred and spite.ââ So point out the deaders to us and we can grab and go.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/22/2003 3:23:45 AM ||
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Two things: 1) give Mosul to the Kurds My sentiment exactly 2) Saddam has to be caught, though I doubt he's in Iraq now (my first guess is that he's with Chiraq sipping on gin & juice, but more realistically, Syria)
Posted by: Rafael ||
11/22/2003 7:50 Comments ||
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Al Guardian is just exaggerating, as usual. The meat of the article is a helicopter accident and two American KIA. The rest consists of a few quotes from local residents (Baathists or Islamists*) who happen to agree with this Guardian editorial masquerading as news.
* The mosque quote tends to make me think Islamists.
Iraqi police have detained a suspected al-Qaida member in the southern Iraqi city of Samawah, where Japan is considering sending ground troops to help rebuild the country, for allegedly planning a bomb attack on Dutch troops there, a senior police officer told Kyodo News on Friday. This was the first detention in Samawah of a suspected member of the international terrorist network. A Japanese fact-finding team now in the city for investigations in preparation for the dispatch of Self-Defense Forces is paying close attention to the arrest.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/22/2003 12:32:38 AM ||
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Why do I have this picture of an ominously smiling Japanese Officer saying "Japan is not a signatory of the Geneva Conventions..."?
The al-Qaida-linked Jemaah Islamiyah terrorist network is training new leaders and likely planning more suicide attacks similar to those in Bali and at Jakartaâs Marriott Hotel, Singaporeâs home affairs minister said in remarks released Friday. Tap, tap, there goes my surprise meter ...
The recent arrests of key Jemaah Islamiyah leaders have only temporarily set back the group, and a new generation of leaders is being trained in Pakistan and Indonesia, Home Affairs Minister Wong Kan Seng said. That would seem to imply that Hanbaliâs bro and Co werenât at the top of pyramid, at least as far as the Pakistani wing of group goes.
Jemaah Islamiyah ââas an organization, is only disrupted. It is by no means eliminated,ââ Wong told a security conference in Hawaii on Thursday. His speech was released in Singapore on Friday. The group, a loose network of Islamic militants extending across Southeast Asia, has been blamed for the Marriott blast in August, which killed 12 people, and the Bali nightclub bombings in October 2002 that killed 202 people, mostly foreign tourists. ââOur intelligence assessment is that (Jemaah Islamiyah) elements are on the run,ââ he said. They ââare likely to plan more suicide bomb attacks along the lines of Bali and the recent Hotel Marriott bombing in Jakarta.ââ More than 200 Jemaah Islamiyah members have been arrested in five countries since the Bali blasts and other attacks. The group suffered one of its biggest blows in August with the arrest in Thailand of Hambali, its alleged operations chief. Wong singled out as a serious threat Azahari bin Husin, a British-educated Malaysian mathematician and master bomb maker who is believed to have played a key role in the Bali blasts. Yet we heard the other day that bin Husin works for Zulkarnaean, who seems to have taken up Hanbaliâs role as the JI supremo. Should be interesting to see whoâs really on top ...
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/22/2003 12:45:23 AM ||
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Four suspected kidnappers and a policeman have been killed and five other people arrested on Thursday, as the Philippines Government fought back against a rising wave of abductions. President Gloria Arroyo said police tailed the mastermind of the abduction and slaying earlier this week of Coca-Cola Export finance manager Betty Sy to a hideout near the town of Dinalupihan north of Manila. The gang lobbed a grenade at police raiders, killing an officer and wounding four other lawmen, said local military commander Lieutenant Colonel Domingo Tutaan. An hour-long firefight followed, killing four gang members including their leader Roberto Yap. Two other suspects were later arrested, including a wounded woman, Lieutenant Colonel Tutaan said in a written report. Mrs Arroyo announced the clash in a nationally televised address to advertising executives in the northern city of Baguio. "I would like to announce that the kidnappers of the Coca-Cola executive have been caught, some of them," she said. "The others have been killed in an encounter including their leader, the notorious number one kidnapper in the order of battle — Roberto Yap." Police on Tuesday found the body of 32-year-old Sy, wrapped in a blanket and stuffed in trash near the seafront in southern Manila, a day after she was seized by unidentified armed men. Press reports said she had bled to death from gunshot wounds accidentally inflicted by kidnappers when they seized her. The Chinese-Filipino community said the Coca-Cola executive was the 156th kidnap victim in the Philippines so far this year.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
11/22/2003 00:25 ||
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Iâm hoping that the initial headline is a typo ...
Most UN countries are refusing to act against al Qaida, a top official said tonight. UN nations have to come forward with information about the terrorist networkâs suspects and donors. But just 84 of the 191 countries have so far done so. Heraldo Munoz, who chairs the UNâs al Qaida sanctions committee, said they must do more. âWe are disappointed that only 84 countries out of 191 have come forward with information to us,â he said. âWe are hoping from here to the end of the year we would have more countries providing information.â
Speaking on BBC 2âs Newsnight programme he said states feared they would be targeted by al Qaida if they were seen to act against it. But he said without co-operation the group would never be defeated. âAl Qaidaâs terrorism is global. The only way is for a global approach. There is no way we can beat terrorism in a unilateral way.â Mr Heraldo said he âwasnât surprised at allâ that Turkey had been targeted by groups linked with al Qaida. A total of 27 people died in two bomb blasts in Istanbul yesterday. Al Qaida had targeted secular Islamic democracies before and had trained and financed 30 to 40 groups throughout the Middle East, Asia and Europe. He said Osama Bin Laden had lost key lieutenants but the organisation was still relatively intact. Mr Heraldo also said he feared the organisation might have access to surface-to-air missiles which it had tried to use in Kenya.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/22/2003 12:34:24 AM ||
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"UNâs al Qaida sanctions committee" AKA "UN's continued impotence committee"
Posted by: joe ||
11/22/2003 1:01 Comments ||
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Dan D:
The headline is probably not a typo. The phrase "to shop Al Qaida" means to provide information to the authorities about them.
Given that half the countries in the UN are run by thugs, thieves and bagmen, it isn't surprising that only 84 out of 191 have provided information.
With al-Qaeda being linked to three devastating attacks in Turkey and Saudi Arabia in the last two weeks, the group appears to be leaving a new signature as an increasingly decentralized and unpredictable terrorist network that appears harder to fight. Experts and diplomats said the recent resurgence of al-Qaeda violence also showed that Osama bin Laden's 14-year-old terrorist fraternity was as lethal as ever, despite the U.S.-led war on terrorism. The organization essentially is reinventing itself to compensate for losses in its ranks, they said.
The fact that we're inflicting damage on them and causing their reorganization is a good sign, not a bad one. The Feds said last year that there are just 200 hardcore al-Qaeda. That figure doesn't include the cannon fodder, of course, or even all the middle managers, but just the "base" — al-Qaeda. The organization from the beginning has represented an alliance of gun-totin' organizations, with Binny's mob as a high command, coordinating and financing things. It's the high command we've been going after, but the component parts didn't give up their autonomy, and in fact the number of component parts has been growing because "al-Qaeda" represents the big time of terrorism at the moment. But "the base" itself has been transforming itself in an effort as self-preservation, with the Fath e-Islam group forming to run Afghanistan. The Karachi mob, when it was run by Ramzi bin al-Shibh, seems to have been autonomous, and the tools it used were the locals — Harkatul Mujaheddin al-Alaami, Lashkar e-Jhangvi, and various free-lance Jaish e-Mohammad groups. And then there's Ansar al-Islam and the Iran mob...
At the same time, U.S. intelligence officials said, the United States has diverted more than half the personnel and technology that was targeted on al-Qaeda to the war in Iraq. Bin Laden is believed to have escaped a dragnet in Afghanistan and remains free and in charge, but small cells in at least 50 countries seem to operate independently, striking when conditions suit their purposes and using locals as bombers, experts say. It's unclear how much direction they receive from al-Qaeda's surviving top leaders, such as Saif al-Adel, believed to be in Iran, and bin Laden's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri.
Also reported to be in Iran. Mansoor Ijaz says he has that from "an unimpeachable source," and that both Ayman and Binny are masquerading as ayatollahs, complete with Iranian-style turbans and trimmed beards. I have my doubts about the reliability of that — it seems like suicide on the part of the ayatollahs. But the evidence seems pretty firm that Saif and Saad are in Iran at least...
"As the entity decentralizes, you're going to get a lot more wildcat operations," said Brian Jenkins of the Rand Corp., a policy research group in Washington.
And a lot more subcontracting, as we saw in Istanbul. But the "Qaeda" presence in Yemen seems to be mostly the Aden-Abyan Islamic Army, with an allied Qaeda element (the Hutat Group). In Europe it's al-Tawhid and various north African sympathizers. In Turkey they used the Great Eastern Raiders. In Chechnya they're riding Maskhadov's indigenous mob. And in Southeast Asia they're riding Jemaah Islamiyah. So what's new, other than the clarification?
Recent attacks underscore al-Qaeda's willingness to strike in Muslim countries, spreading new waves of apprehension in Turkey and in Saudi Arabia, where security forces are pressing a border-to-border crackdown that has crushed dozens of cells and resulted in more than 600 arrests. Experts believe, however, that at least 300 hard-core supporters and more than 1,500 sympathizers remain in the kingdom. "I fully suspect that... the terrorists who are here are planning additional attacks," said a Western diplomat in Riyadh who spoke on condition of anonymity. The U.S. Embassy in Riyadh remains open but is on a heightened state of alert, and the more than 30,000 Americans living in Saudi Arabia were urged to take extra precautions.
Soddy Arabia's the home of al-Qaeda, where its ideological fathers and its financiers live. The country's got its own population of "Afghan Arabs," and if I remember correctly it's got its own "Army of Muhammad."
Counterterror experts say al-Qaeda, a loose-knit network whose name means "the base," has mutated in reaction to a sustained U.S. assault. In both Saudi Arabia and Turkey, there are indications that local groups have adopted al-Qaeda's ideology and are trying to duplicate its methods without much external direction, said Daniel Benjamin, a former White House counterterrorism expert and coauthor of The Age of Sacred Terror. "We're seeing a different dynamic, sort of a second stage in the development of the radical jihadist" movement, he said.
That's what I just said...
Matthew Levitt, a former FBI counterterrorism analyst now at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, said use of local groups had meant bombings were less meticulously planned and more often directed against last-minute targets of opportunity. Stopping such attacks "is all but impossible," he said.
The smaller-scale the attack, the harder it is to stop. I could get my gun and go out this evening and pot somebody — where's the tip-off to anybody trying to stop me?
There also have been hints of sloppiness. In May, a series of car bombings by an al-Qaeda-linked group in Casablanca, Morocco, killed 45, including 12 bombers, but did less damage than intended. And it is unclear whether those who struck the Riyadh compound this month knew it housed primarily Muslim Arabs.
Or cared. But Qaeda as a group isn't particularly concerned about the eggs going into the omelette...
One potential thread in some of the recent attacks is Abu Musab Zarqawi, a Jordanian-born operative who may now be in Iran and who is thought to have been behind the assassination last year in Jordan of U.S. diplomat Laurence Foley. Levitt said Zarqawi's operatives may have played a role in Casablanca and also have been active in Turkey. One of them, Abdelatif Mourafik, wanted in the Casablanca bombings, was recently arrested in Turkey.
I didn't know about that. Makes sense, though. I've been calling Zarqawi the real, genuine Qaeda operations chief.
Turkey is an ideal target for al-Qaeda: an overwhelmingly secular Muslim nation that is allied with the United States and Israel. Its size, location and Muslim population also make it an attractive place to operate. "You can hide without hiding," Levitt said.
If the Turks are true to form, it's going to become a lot less comfortable for Bad Guys to hang out in the near future.
Adel al-Jubeir, the foreign-affairs adviser to Crown Prince Abdullah, Saudi Arabia's de facto leader, describes al-Qaeda's worldwide operation as "a loose federation." The group may be in loose contact with the senior leadership through coded Internet messages or by courier. Cells are often no more than eight to 10 people, each with a specific assignment, such as driving or arranging financing.
That's what we've been seeing...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
11/22/2003 00:25 ||
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#1
Bin Laden is believed to have escaped a dragnet in Afghanistan and remains free and in charge
Damn we were close in Tora Bora. Sometimes I think going into Afghanistan was a mistake. Maybe the better tactic would have been to sit and wait and watch, and then pull an Iranian Airbus incident on OBL's private jet on his commute between Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan/Pakistan.
Posted by: Rafael ||
11/22/2003 8:15 Comments ||
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#2
During the war in Afghanistan OBLadin prepared scores of casettes that were played in mosques throughout Saudi Arabia. When that war was finished he returned for a time to Saudi Arabia where he preached in mosques, before heading to Yemen to assist in the civil war in that country. After he moved to Sudan in 1991 he gave numerous lectures to his AQ followers, was constantly on the radio and then the cellphone with allies throughout the world. After leaving Sudan in 1996 he appeared on numerous tapes, continued his daily contact with friends, etc. Then following Tora Bora, nothing. Scratchy tapes that a Swiss outfit claims are not the voice of OBL. He is seen here and there by con-man Mansoor Ijaz's personal intelligence service, but... no tapes, even though they would be easy to make. No calls. No pictures, although an idiot can run a camcorder. The CIA wants you to believe that OBL is alive. Why? Why would Woolsey join Ijaz and the Pakistani bser's Crescent Investment Management LLC?
#3
The CIA wants you to believe that OBL is alive. Why?
Uh, yeah. It's the CIA that says he's alive.
Maybe, outside of conspiracy theories, the CIA just can't say for sure that he's dead? After all, without a body, and with even the pathetic tapes being produced now, the press would be going apeshit if the government claimed bin Laden was dead.
Not to mention that you'd probably be asking why, in the face of all those tapes, the CIA insists he's dead.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/22/2003 11:09 Comments ||
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Tancred wrote: The CIA wants you to believe that OBL is alive. Why?
Assuming Binny is dead, the only possible use he is to al-Qaeda is as a martyr. I'm inclined to believe Binny is indeed dead and the CIA knows it. When al-Qaeda tried to save face by insisting Binny didn't die at Tora Bora, they gave the Americans the opportunity to prevent Binny from being made a great inspirational martyr figure. All the U.S. had to do was to say nothing. Now Binny is viewed as a guy on the run who is too scared to show his face - even on video tape.
#5
Now Binny is viewed as a guy on the run who is too scared to show his face - even on video tape.
Now Binny is viewed (same as Saddam) as the guy who's constantly managing to avoid US efforts to capture him, even as he manages to strike back at western (or secular Muslim) targets.
If CIA knows he's dead, for god's sake, *reveal* it. Martyr-cliches aside, the only thing worse than a dead martyr is an alive hero.
Why do you think that the former would inspire any more than the latter?
Now the *best* possible scenario would be a captured Osama Bin Laden, revealing himself a coward pleading for his life to the Americans by asking his former comrades to stop the fight. Most of the civil war with PKK in Turkey ended when captured Ocalan proved himself a wimp.
But if we can't have that, then a dead (and known-dead) Osama Bin Laden is the second-best choice.
#8
Martyr-cliches aside, the only thing worse than a dead martyr is an alive hero.
Not in the absence of any certainty one way or another. But the fact that bin Laden is no longer appearing in person to make his rants and deliver his condemnations as before indicates that something is obviously different. Nobody seems to know what the deal is, but more importantly, nobody seems to really care.
After nearly 40 years of battlefield service around the globe, the M-16 may be on its way out as the standard Army assault rifle because of flaws highlighted during the invasion and occupation of Iraq.
U.S. officers in Iraq say the M-16A2 â the latest incarnation of the 5.56 mm firearm â is quietly being phased out of front-line service because it has proven too bulky for use inside the Humvees and armored vehicles that have emerged as the principal mode of conducting patrols since the end of major fighting on May 1. The M-16, at nearly 40 inches, is widely considered too long to aim quickly within the confines of a vehicle during a firefights, when reaction time is a matter of life and death. "Itâs a little too big for getting in and out of vehicles," said Brig. Gen. Martin Dempsey, commander of the 1st Armored Division, which controls Baghdad. "I can tell you that as a result of this experience, the Army will look very carefully at how it performed."
Instead of the M-16, which also is prone to jamming in Iraqâs dusty environment, M-4 carbines are now widely issued to American troops. The M-4 is essentially a shortened M-16A2, with a clipped barrel, partially retractable stock and a trigger mechanism modified to fire full-auto instead of three-shots bursts. It was first introduced as a personal defense weapon for clerks, drivers and other non-combat troops. "Then it was adopted by the Special Forces and Rangers, mainly because of its shorter length," said Col. Kurt Fuller, a battalion commander in Iraq and an authority on firearms.
Fuller said studies showed that most of the combat in Iraq has been in urban environments and that 95 percent of all engagements have occurred at ranges shorter than 100 yards, where the M-4, at just over 30 inches long, works best. Still, experience has shown the carbines also have deficiencies. The cut-down barrel results in lower bullet velocities, decreasing its range. It also tends to rapidly overheat and the firing system, which works under greater pressures created by the gases of detonating ammunition, puts more stress on moving parts, hurting its reliability. Consequently, the M-4 is an unlikely candidate for the rearming of the U.S. Army. It is now viewed as an interim solution until the introduction of a more advanced design known as the Objective Individual Combat Weapon, or OICW.
There is no date set for the entry into service of the OICW, but officers in Iraq say they expect its arrival sooner than previously expected because of the problems with the M-16 and the M-4. "Iraq is the final nail in the coffin for the M-16," said a commander who asked not to be identified. The current version of the M-16 is a far cry from the original, which troops during the Vietnam War criticized as fragile, lacking power and range, and only moderately accurate. At the time, a leading U.S. weapons expert even recommended that American soldiers discard their M-16s and arm themselves with the Kalashnikov AK-47 rifle used by their Vietcong enemy.
Although the M16A1 â introduced in the early 1980s â has been heavily modernized, experts say it still isnât as reliable as the AK-47 or its younger cousin, the AK-74. Both are said to have better "knockdown" power and can take more of a beating on the battlefield.
#1
That .22 caliber round is also too wimpy for the mountain fighting in Afghanistan. I'd be interested to know how many M14s have been issued up there.
Anyway, maybe it's time to modify the grease gun for 9mm, or just let some contracts to have more manufactured in .45 acp. Trying to get a -16 through a top hatch is a pain in the ass. 9mm or .45 is fine for urban fighting.
#2
In terms of bulk, I'm not so sure that the OICW is any better.
Posted by: Rafael ||
11/22/2003 19:57 Comments ||
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There's the XM8 Lightweight Assault Rifle, though if the guys there aren't using the 7.62x39 conversion kit (as of now just a rumor, but allegedly it uses an AK-47 type magazine well and feeds accordingly), the jihadis will die of laughter before they die of a 5.56x45mm out of this ...
Posted by: Lu Baihu ||
11/22/2003 20:30 Comments ||
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#4
the jihadis will die of laughter before they die of a 5.56x45mm out of this ...
Oh, sh*t! We would have to make sure the troop's lipstick and high heels matched the stock, though.
#5
Of course, the AK-47 has a better knock down capability. It fires a fatter round at twice the weight. Also it isn't news that AK is better desert and jungle gun. We've known that since Vietnam.
I'm not sure going to a .45 or 9mm round is an answer. Those are effective rounds at close quarters (as long as your using a supersonic 115 or 124 grain 9mm), but they are next to worthless at medium and long range.
Also the OICW is hardly a smaller arm. Every photo I have seen looks more like a small artillery piece than an assault weapon.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
11/22/2003 21:38 Comments ||
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Yeah, the 9mm and .45 aren't for long-range work, but they're in an urban environment. Economy-wise (and don't doubt for a second it's not all about dollars) rolling out M3s makes sense. Issuing everyone MP5/10s is out of the question, the OICW is a boondoggle and by admission it's only meant for the frontline infantry troops. Maybe, just maybe, the Army is ready to admit that issuing EVERYONE the same weapon isn't the best idea. M3s are cheap, 9mm nato is plentiful, you're working 100m and in, what's the problem?
AKs are more reliable because tolerances are so loose, which makes them pretty inaccurate. And it's not like they're smaller/lighter than 16s.
And maybe all those surplus 16s will end up in the CMP! WOOT!
#7
Chamber for 7.62/.30cal instead of them spitwads. So it kicks a little, so what? At least what you soot stays down. The stubbys are a good idea too.
#8
H&K MP5's are good weapons once you're actually inside a building. But, If we're talking about fighting street to street they could convert a mini-14 (we're talking about hostilities at 100 yrds or less) & put a heavy ass round in there, something like a 7.62 or .30-30 that will punch through, & be real accurate up to 150 yrds. AK's are great under 100 yrds. M-16A2s are great for longer ranges, and extremely accurate, nice flat trajectory and the round is cruising. Their problem is you have to keep them twice as clean as the AK to get the same type of reliability.
As most of you all know the reason reason we went to 5.56 in the first place (besides the NATO insanity). The tumbling movement after the strike of the round was meant to maim as much as it was to kill. The thought being that terribly wounded enemy soldiers would slow up the rest of their troops as well as create a mental shock to them. (seeing your buddy screaming his ass off because the round that entered his hip just came out his left testicle) Essentially wounding and knocking enemy soldiers out of the fight vice straight out killing them was also meant to drain the enemy of his logistics. Sounds crazy I know, I wouldn't even bring it up if I hadn't been taught about it in my line of work. We should've known those 5.5.6 rounds were not going to punch through doors or really have the knock down power needed for quick urban clashes. I would've gone no less than a .243 myself, .270 better yet. If a round (.223) is too small for a deer by most state regs, then it's too small for a human in my book.
I guess after Clinton, we should be pleased that the troops are even issued firing pins, much less ammo. I've also read that all they have is CMP to clean their weapons. Anyone's ever been to the NTC or 29 Palms knows that sh*t is nothing but dirt glue. Can't blame the 16 for jamming in those conditions, it's just piss poor leadership, AGAIN. Same old story.
#10
Rafael> The OICW's worse - it's top-heavy, and the option of bludgeoning people with the M16 buttstock just isn't there.
commo>
1) re the XM8 - :P [and note to mojo - if the conversion kit stuff's real, they will chamber for bigger-than-spitwads]
2) re tolerances - the "GI .45s" (the original Colt Government Model 1911 pistols) were pretty loose too, thus their reliability; more recently the things've been tightened up, but I hear they still work fine due to computer-aided precision in manufacturing, so here's hoping the XM8 is tight (enough for [match-grade?] accuracy) yet tolerant enough that it could vie with the AK on reliability ...
3) MP5/10s - Actually, didn't the FBI go back to 9mm MP5s? I know the government's hooked on .40 S&W in Glock or H&K USP Compact, but truthbetold, I prefer MP5 to your vaunted M3 - there's just so much versatility to it (such as scope, laser, sight mountings), the troops are more likely to be familiarized with it, especially the cops among the reservists, I just like the thing better ...
Posted by: Lu Baihu ||
11/23/2003 0:07 Comments ||
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#11
didn't the FBI go back to 9mm MP5s? I know the government's hooked on .40 S&W
Don't know what the feebs are using, but the 9mm was dropped like a warm, moist fece by just about anyone in the military that could do so. Still the 'standard' sidearm for line troops, but the operators promptly went back to .45 acp.
Far as tolerances, 'forgiving' is a fine characteristic in a handgun. I love my 1911 rep, I know it will never, ever fail me. Do you need it in a long gun? That's the big point of disagreement, ain't it? It's still nice to hit what you aim at out to 300m, which the M16 will do nicely.
And I say we can't issue MP5s/10s to everyone because of cost, not because I think they're inferior. Too expensive to issue, is the point. That's why only the 'special' units get 'em. I'm old school, so I prefer the .45 acp to the lesser 9mm (i can hear the howls already). That's why I humbly suggest reissuing the M3.
#12
Sorry to still be bringing this topic up (if that's impolite - can we talk about this by E-mail or messaging service?) but I know for a pretty fact that the government's more or less enamored with the .40 S&W; the MP5/10 is itself the invention-by-request of the FBI, but that round's just about dead because the recoil ended up resulting in the use of an underpowered "FBI Load" that the .40 S&W replicated off the bat, more or less obsoleting the 10mm Auto, and at last check that too killed it in the special forces, who seem to stick to the .45 and the 9mm (or at least the Navy SEALs do, in the Sig P226). I prefer the .45 ACP as a handgun round, but I'll take a 9mm in a submachine gun - high capacity is the point of one, in my opinion!
Posted by: Lu Baihu ||
11/23/2003 12:45 Comments ||
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#13
You all trash 5.56mm but the high velocity, accuracy and tumbling affects are the pro's involved with it. It is also much lighter than 7.62mm and allows troops to carry more ammunition into the fight. The diameter of the round is only one factor of stopping power. It's all about weighing pros and cons. I'll trade the likelyhood of a one hit kill for the ability to carry more ammo and shoot accurately. OICW is way too far out to think about. The new XM-8 is the way to go. Versitile and more reliable (H&K makes it). Who cares if you think its ugly... My suggestion: Keep the 5.56mm in the XM-8 for line troops (except snipers who specialize in one shot kills... then 7.62mm or .50Cal) and go back to the .45 (H&K has higher capacity than 1911) for a sidearm.
This article in the New York Times, discusses Deanâs suspect deferement from the draft in 1970. Then-student Dean was eager to get a medical exception so he wouldnât be drafted. The back condition that kept Dean out of the military didnât appear to be that serious.
In the 10 months after his graduation from Yale, time he might otherwise have spent in uniform, Dr. Dean lived the life of a ski bum in Aspen, Colo. His back condition did not affect his skiing the way the rigors of military service would have, he said, nor did it prevent him from taking odd jobs like pouring concrete in the warm months and washing dishes when it got cold.
However hipocritcal that might be, that is not why Iâm writing this entry. The following two short paragraphs are:
In early 1970, more than a year before Dr. Deanâs student deferment was due to lapse, he decided to see where he stood.
If approved for service, he said, he thought he might try Officer Candidate School, as a Yale friend had done. He said he had never considered the National Guard.
This is incredibly arrogant, stupid, and hipocritical. "Sure", says young Dean, "I donât want to serve in the military, to the point of relying on a cooked-up medical reason, but if Iâm forced to serve, Iâll do so as an officer." Hereâs yet another reason to keep our military an all-volunteer force; to keep hipocritical snobs like Howard Dean out of the Officer Corp.
Most of the Niedermyers have long since been weeded out, thank God. There were enough of them left back in the early 70s, though...
Posted by: Sorge ||
11/22/2003 11:46:30 AM ||
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"Niedermyers"! -- one word and I know EXACTLY what you mean!
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/22/2003 16:52 Comments ||
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He didn't even have enough character to go as a DOCTOR?!?! So let's put the 'blue-collar rolled up sleeves, everyman' myth to rest: spoiled rich kid, went to Aspen and was a trust-fund ski 'bum', then went to med school. Hmm, if he's such a 'bum' how did he pay for it?
Sounds like just another privileged aristo. If there were any rape allegations, I'd say he was Kennedy.
#3
I read Dean even was on the wrestling team in college. msn.com had a great spread on all nine nit-wits last month - that's where I got that from. Wrestling - one of the most demanding sports in all of collegiate athletics but he couldn't handle recruit training...he claims it was the excessive running that he would have to do at boot camp that worried the doctors screening him...probably all b.s.
The Operative Headquarters for Managing the Counter-Terrorist Operation in Chechnya announced on Friday it was offering $100 thousand for information about Abu Al-Walid, Arab national and one of the leaders of Chechen militants. Official representative of the operative headquarters, Colonel Ilya Shabalkin said that those who would present information about Abu-Al-Walidâs whereabouts or render assistance in his detention would receive $100 thousand or 3 million Russian roubles.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/22/2003 10:33:49 AM ||
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Kind a differnt version of terrorism futures.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/22/2003 12:03 Comments ||
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REBEL attacks and land-mine blasts in Chechnya killed six Russian soldiers, two Chechen policemen and wounded 14 people over the past day. Five Russian soldiers were killed and seven more wounded as federal outposts came under rebel fire 16 times in the previous 24 hours. In a clash in the Itum-Kale district, one soldier was killed and two were wounded. Two rebels were also killed. Another two servicemen were wounded when a military vehicle exploded on a land mine outside Novogrozny village in the Gudermes district. The Chechen policemen died in a shootout in Groznyâs Oktyabrsky district last night. Rebels often target Chechen police as punishment for their cooperation with federal authorities.
Just like in Iraq...
An unknown explosive, which went off in a street in the Makhkety village of Vedeno district this morning, injured three local residents. Meanwhile, Russian forces targeted suspected rebel positions and groups in Itum-Kale, Vedeno and Nozhai-Yurt districts with artillery and detained at least 140 people during security sweeps.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/22/2003 10:29:58 AM ||
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I think we saw this coming...
Opposition supporters broke into Georgiaâs Parliament on Saturday and took it over, scuffling with lawmakers and forcing President Eduard Shevardnadze to flee as thousands of protesters outside demanded his resignation. Opposition leader Mikhail Saakashvili led hundreds of his supporters as they shoved their way into the chamber, overturning desks and chairs and leaping onto the speakerâs podium, just after the president convened the body. "The velvet revolution has taken place in Georgia," Saakashvili said, as the hall applauded him. "We are against violence."
"Most of the time, anyway."
The takeover of Parliament throws into doubt the rule of Shevardnadze, the ex-Soviet republicâs leader since 1992. The country has slid into its biggest political crisis in years after Nov. 2 parliamentary elections, which the opposition and many foreign observers including the United States claimed were rigged. The 75-year-old Shevardnadze was hustled out of the chamber and then the parliament building by his bodyguards. "I will not resign. I will resign when the presidential term expires, according to the constitution," Shevardnadze said before he was driven away from the parliament, accompanied by armed guards in riot gear.
"Feet, don't fail me now!"
But the opposition appeared in control of the legislature. One demonstrator clutching a rose stood on the podium and pounded a gavel, drinking from a bottle before smashing it on the floor. Saakashvili ordered all pro-government lawmakers out of the building, prompting some scuffling. He then handed over the podium to opposition leader Nino Burdzhanadze, who was the speaker in the last parliament. "We tried not to allow what has happened, but Shevardnadze has lost all the chances of peaceful negotiations," Burdzhanadze said. The takeover came after at least two weeks of daily street protests by opposition supporters. Before Shevardnadze opened Parliament, tens of thousands of opposition supporters packed the capitalâs Freedom Square and other streets, kicking an effigy of Shevardnadze and toting placards reading, "Your century was the 20th. Now it is the 21st." They vowed not to leave the streets until Shevardnadze is ousted. "We are giving the president one last chance," Saakashvili told them. "Within one hour, either he comes to the people or the people will come to him."
"Like they came for Ceaucescu!"
Before the takeover, Shevardnadze criticized the opposition on Saturday for calling for civil disobedience. Speaking to journalists in Parliament, he offered a dialogue, but "without any ultimatums. Parliament was elected and ... parliament should begin work today." As tension escalated, Shevardnadze appeared to soften his position. He acknowledged that there had been some problems with the election, which the pro-Shevardnadze party won according to the official results. "About 8 to 10 percent of the ballots were invalid," he said, but added that this should be dealt with in the courts. He then convened the new parliament amid tight security. Police, covered in body armor and holding shields, were posted in front of all the main government buildings. But as Shevardnadze was speaking, opposition supporters stormed through the chamber doors. Television broadcasts showed demonstrators overturning desks and chairs as they ran up to the podium.
Doesn't look like the cops bothered to stop them...
On Friday, the U.S. State Department called on Georgiaâs government to conduct an independent investigation into the results. State Department spokesman Adam Ereli said the poll results reflected "massive vote fraud" in some regions and "do not accurately reflect the will of the Georgian people." Russia, which remains a key power in the region, also acknowledged that the election war marred and called for the "mistakes to be corrected, but in the realm of the law." "The alternative is chaos," the Russian Foreign Ministry warned.
He means what they have now...
Georgiaâs top security official also acknowledged Friday that the vote which independent exit pollers said the opposition appeared to have won was tarnished by fraud. Security Council Secretary Tedo Dzhaparidze, a former ambassador to the United States, said the new parliament should only be considered temporary, sitting until a new vote can be held. According to final results, the pro-Shevardnadze For a New Georgia bloc finished first with 21.3 percent of the vote, while the Revival party, which sometimes has been critical of the government but sided with Shevardnadze in the present crisis, finished second with 18.8 percent. Saakashviliâs National Movement came in a very close third with 18 percent of the vote, while the Democrats who allied with Saakashvili got 8.8 percent. The Labor party had 12 percent. Shevardnadze helped end the Cold War peacefully as Soviet foreign minister under Mikhail Gorbachev, but he has spent the last decade trying to save his mountainous country from anarchy. Always nice to see ABC News shill for yet another tin-plated despot.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/22/2003 10:27:38 AM ||
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A network of seven Syrian opposition groups calling itself the Democratic Coalition to Free Syria came to Washington this week to publicize efforts to transform Syria into a democracy.
Good luck with that idea...
Foremost on the members' minds was the uncertain fate of neighboring Iraq that they hope to avoid for Syria. "We are here to say that there are democratic people in Syria that believe it is time to bring democracy to Syria," Farid Guadry, president of the Reform Party of Syria, told reporters at the National Press Club on Monday. Calling for support of the United States, the coalition nevertheless said it rejected U.S. military intervention. Instead, it is seeking support for grass-roots movements within Middle Eastern countries, Mr. Guadry said.
Yeah. Let's see if that works first...
"For the first time in the history of Syria, a coalition made of Arab parties, Kurdish parties, Christian parties and other minorities come together for one very simple goal â democracy for Syria," he said. "We are going to become the new force of Syria."
"...always assuming we don't end up with our heads beat in, of course."
Middle East analysts said the group faces a tough sell. "The whole affair is not credible," said Nurhaf Jouejati, a Syrian-born specialist on Middle East affairs who advised the Syrian delegation to the Middle East peace talks between 1991 and 1994. They have no mass support, neither in Syria itself nor among the Syrian diaspora, Mr. Jouejati said. He also questioned the group's democratic credentials.
Sounds like the makings of the Syrian National Congress...
Arguing that Syria's Baathist regime represents fewer than 10 percent of the population, Mr. Guadry said it is time to establish a secular and multiparty regime for Syria. The seven groups signed a document calling for a free and democratic Syria, with free elections, respect for human rights and political participation for all Syrians. They also expressed their will to combat terrorism. Syria faces U.S. sanctions over accusations that it backs terrorists. "We condemn any violence against any innocent people," Mr. Guadry said. He said Islamic extremism is a consequence of the lack of democracy in Syria. Taufiq Hamdosch, president of the Democratic Party of Kurdistan-Syria, which joined the coalition, urged democratic countries to "stop supporting the Stalinist regime of fear and intimidation of [Syrian President] Bashar al Assad. It is important for the U.S. administration to understand that we are peaceful."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
11/22/2003 10:18 ||
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Have the groups meet in a hotel an come up with a proposed constitution in two months. If they can't do that, they should be ignored.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/22/2003 21:01 Comments ||
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Ahead of a planned meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, an upbeat Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qurei has said a peace deal is possible within six months.
I'm sure he's right. I expect to be 30 again about that time, and to have all my hair back. My beer gut should be gone by then, too, and Patty Ann Brown will have run off with me to live in sin...
âI am ready to talk with Sharon to conclude an agreement if it is possible,â Qorei said in an interview with Norwegian public television. âIf we want to, we are ready. We can do it in a very short time. We can do it once and forever. I think in six months we can close the deal and put an end to the conflict,â Qorei said. According to Israeli officials, Qorei and Sharon are due to meet next week for the first time since the new Palestinian government was sworn in on Nov. 12. The Palestinian premier has vowed to make a truce his priority and is seeking guarantees from Israel in a bid to convince Palestinian factions to end their attacks. Sharon said Thursday night that he was considering a parallel track of âpositive unilateral stepsâ to alleviate the pressure on the Palestinian population.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
11/22/2003 09:58 ||
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âIf we want to, we are ready. We can do it in a very short time. We can do it once and forever. I think in six months we can close the deal and put an end to the conflict,â
so many qualifiers: "if we want to", "we can do it", "we can close the deal" - it's almost Clintonian
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/22/2003 10:17 Comments ||
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Oh great. We've replaced the Roadmap with "The Little Engine That Could."
Posted by: Matt ||
11/22/2003 13:53 Comments ||
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"Patty Ann Brown"! Shades of Leo Kottke!
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/22/2003 16:59 Comments ||
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"Nah - I'm his brother, the Little Engine That Could Give A &$^%#..." -- Bizarro
The Israeli prime minister has told Jews in Italy the best way to escape "a great wave of anti-Semitism" is to move and settle in the state of Israel. Ariel Sharon was addressing about 100 Jews in the capital Rome on the first day of his official visit to Italy. His Italian host Silvio Berlusconi has been a staunch supporter of Israel. The three-day visit follows Saturdayâs twin synagogue bombings in Turkey which have raised concerns that anti-Semitism is rising across the world. "If Israel is weakened ... the Jews worldwide will not be able to live the lives they live today," Ariel Sharon told the crowd at a Rome hotel. "We are witness to a great wave of anti-Semitism, and apart from the usual anti-Semitism against Jews, there is today the added hate of the collective Jew, which is Israel. The best solution to anti-Semitism is immigration to Israel. It is the only place on Earth where Jews can live as Jews."
Mr Sharon said the issue of anti-Semitism would be "central" in his talks with Italian leaders over the week. He is due to meet with Mr Berlusconi on Tuesday, followed by the Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini. Mr Sharon regards Mr Berlusconi as more supportive of his Middle East polices than most EU members. Security in Rome was already tight for the funerals of 19 Italians who died in a suicide bomb attack in southern Iraq last week. Mr Sharon is spending much of his visit inside a hotel, protected by Israeli and Italian security guards. In recent weeks, a poll for the European Commission suggesting that EU citizens see Israel as the biggest threat to world peace caused outrage among Israelis. Mr Berlusconi called Mr Sharon personally to express his "surprise and indignation" over the results.
His deputy, Gianfranco Fini, has defended Israelâs right to build its separation barrier in the West Bank - in remarks that appeared to contradict the EUâs official opposition the project. On Sunday, Pope John Paul II specifically criticised the 430-kilometre (270-mile) barrier, calling it an "obstacle on the road leading to peaceful cohabitation". No meeting with the pontiff has been scheduled for Mr Sharonâs visit.
Mr Sharon and Mr Berlusconi are expected to discuss what is perceived as increasing hostility towards Israeli and Jews across Europe. "A great deal of the time will be spent on dealing with this new phenomenon of rising anti-Semitism," said Raanan Gissin, an adviser to Mr Sharon. Iâm afraid itâs not just Europe, I keep hearing things around here also. Someone said, "itâs like 1933 again". I never believed Zechariah when he said, "I will gather all nations to battle against Jerusalem". I thought, no, not the U.S., everyone else, but not the U.S. But there is a wave rising. Sharonâs advice may end up being good advice here.
Posted by: Scott ||
11/22/2003 9:47:59 AM ||
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Shame the speech had to be made in Italy rather than, say, France. AFAIK, Italy doesn't have any serious problems as regards anti-Semitism, and has a relatively honourable history as regards its treatment of Jews. Even under Mussolini, they escaped persecution, and when Italy capitulated to the allies, in those areas under German occupation Italians typically resisted attempts at transportation and execution, often at tremendous personal risk.
#2
The Jews in Rome did live in their own qtr, as Itilians until Uncle SS moved into the "open city". I'm surprized at the amount of anti Israel stuff I hear from people around here. Seattle.
Shame, the speech should have been made in the Netherlands: the survival rate of Jews in France was nearly three times higher than for Netherland Jews. I also remind you that there was an SS division formed of Flemish and Dutch
#4
JFM, If lectures concerning anti-Semitism were to be made in European countries chosen solely on historical precedent, I'm sure that neither France nor the Netherlands would top the list. But which country in Europe today has the highest frequency of anti-Semitic attacks? Just in the past week we've heard of a Jewish school firebombed, the President summoning his cabinet for emergency anti-Semitism discussions, and a Jewish leader advising his community to hide symbols of their Jewishness in public. If anywhere in Europe could do with a chastising lecture from Ariel Sharon today, it's France.
I didn't mean to imply that the French were particularly anti-Semitic during WWII, I was pointing out that Italy was something of a safe haven. There are a number of reasons why Dutch Jews were particularly hard hit during Nazi occupation, but I don't recall that Dutch cultural anti-Semitism was a primary one. Many "Dutch" Jews were in fact recent refugees from Germany, and IIRC there was a special effort by the Nazis to 'purify' "Aryan" Holland; also the Dutch Jews were unusually compliant, encouraged by their community leaders not to resist, and having been persuaded that stories of resettlement in the East were in fact true.
EFL I am taking just a few passages from the article which give some sense of what it is about, but I strongly recommend reading the article itself. Very eye opening.
Another inheritance from that period, the Berlin Wall--which he did not oppose until well after it had been built (having again risked war on the proposition but not felt able to follow up on his punchy short-term rhetoric)--did not disappear from our lives until a quarter century later. His was the worst hard-cop/soft-cop routine ever to be attempted, and it suffered from the worst disadvantages of both styles. On the civil rights front at home, by contrast, even the most flattering historians have a hard time explaining how the Kennedy brothers preferred the millimetrical, snailâs-pace, grudging-and-trudging strategy. But at least this serves to demonstrate that they knew there was such a thing as prudence, or caution.
Every smart liberal of today knows just how to deplore "spin" and "image building" and media strategy in general. Quite right too, but does anyone ever pause to ask when this manner of politics became regnant? Which Kennedy fan wants to disown the idea that the smoothest guy wins? Yet this awkward thought is gone into the memory hole, along with the fictitious "missile gap" that the boy wonder employed to attack Eisenhower and Nixon from the right. As I said at the beginning, I am glad that this spell is fading at last. But I wish its departure would be less mourned. The Kennedy interlude was a flight from responsibility, and ought to be openly criticized and exorcised rather than be left to die the death that sentimentality brings upon itself. I guess Christtopher can forget about being invited to one of Teddyâs shindigs... Oh wait: thatâs a good thing
Posted by: badanov ||
11/22/2003 8:53:25 AM ||
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I hate to 'Dog-Pile' but I really hate the way they spin so Kennedy looks like some freakin 'peace loving' man. HE was the one who sent troops to Vietnam in force. HE is the one that plotted the overthrow AND assassination of Castro. HE was the one that called for a blockade and (if necessary) invasion of Cuba. I am not saying any of these are wrong but JFK was no Ghandi and the press acts like it was the military running these shows.
#2
Crimony! "...this spell is fading at last." I hope so, but I don't see it. The last week and a half has had one or two "Kennedy Specials" on television every night. You can't escape it.
This will fade only when the people who are 50+ years old are no longer in positions of power and influence.
#3
JFK was no Ghandi and the press acts like it was the military running these shows
What the press wants is a mediagenic martyr who has McGovern's views on foreign policy. The problem is that Kennedy was a hawk, not a dove. The funny thing is that he was a half-assed hawk, kind of like Clinton. He deployed exiles to topple Castro, but gave them no backup. He precipitated the Cuban missile crisis, and ended up withdrawing American missiles from Turkey, and promising non-interference with Castro's regime. All in all, a pretty mixed record, despite some fine speeches - kind of like a Hollywood production.
#4
Can anybody direct me to where I will find the Hitchens' article? I'd like to read the whole thing, but don't know where to look to find it. Thanks...
Posted by: Mark ||
11/22/2003 14:22 Comments ||
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He deployed exiles to topple Castro, but gave them no backup.
True, because he had pulled the backup at the last minute.
He precipitated the Cuban missile crisis, and ended up withdrawing American missiles from Turkey, and promising non-interference with Castro's regime.
Weren't some monitoring stations in Turkey removed as well?
#6
Mark - Just click on the title. It links to the original.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/22/2003 14:49 Comments ||
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Unfortunately, the worst thing John Kennedy did was get killed, and left us with that half-wit Roosevelt wannabee, Lyndon "Lying Breath" Johnson, a mess in Vietnam, and a totally failed "War on Poverty" that's cost almost a trillion dollars and done nothing but make the problem worse. Johnson alone is responsible for a third of our Vietnam deaths, and most of the tragedy. Between the two, they've created a mess that will take another generation to get a handle on. Reagan undid the Berlin Wall fiasco, but only the death of Castro will end the Cuba mess. Vietnam is finding Communism unworkable after all, and the past 30 years of pain and agony an unnecessary evil. The last of the Kennedys, Teddy baby, is proving to be the biggest threat to honest Americans of the lot, being a total idiotarian, but able to do great harm to individual freedom from his citadel in the Senate. The People of Massachusetts should be ashamed, deeply ashamed, of this "man".
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/22/2003 14:56 Comments ||
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#8
The missles that were withdrawn from Turkey were obsolete, liquid-fueled IRBMs that we intended to withdraw anyway (Jupiters or Thors, I believe)...
Articles like this encourage me about the "legacy" of the Clinton presidency. If the truth about Kennedy came out eventually (even with all of his family wealth and connections), the truth about Clinton will eventually be known and documented. Probably won't even take 25 years for it to happen...
Posted by: Mark ||
11/22/2003 20:13 Comments ||
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Dittos dittos. We are still living with the Castro legacy, which Kennedy left in place after the missile crisis. Let's face it the man was disaster like every other democrat to make to the oval office.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
11/22/2003 21:44 Comments ||
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..the truth about Clinton will eventually be known and documented. Probably won't even take 25 years for it to happen...
And with any luck, he'll still be around to see it.
#13
Clinton thinks he is Kennedy. All the similarities exist; skirt chasing, inept foreign policy. I'm still trying to figure out how JFK was dumb enough to get his p.t. boat rammed by a Japanese destroyer. He was responsible for the Bay of Pigs and for the deaths of several Air National Guard Pilots from the state of Alabama (I believe) who participated in the BOP. Their families never received any benefits after their demise. I believe they were still petitioning the gov't to this day. The Hersch book (former pullitzer prize winner) uncovers all the dirty laundry about the whole Kennedy family to include ole' man Joe's fiasco's as U.S. ambassador to the UK.
More cheery news. EFL.
In the medieval alleys of this old stone town, U.S. soldiers are lending a hand - stitching up cuts, fixing the plumbing at a girlsâ school — and watching every smile for signs of breaking ice. But in coming to a Muslim community that U.S. officials fear is al-Qaida territory, the soldiers are struggling against powerful currents. Many in Kenyaâs Muslim minority are deeply suspicious of the United States, their distrust fed by TV images of violence in Iraq and the West Bank, and by preachers telling them America is bent on destroying Islam. Even the best intentions get misread. After the troops fixed the plumbing at the Lamu Girlsâ Secondary School, rumors spread that they had poisoned the water.
We've got to work on that propaganda war. That's got to include not only our own broadcast efforts, but paying existing sources for counterpropaganda...
The hearts-and-minds strategy was launched in June, when the United States started deploying 30 soldiers from the 478th Civil Affairs Battalion to Lamu from their base in the republic of Djibouti to the north. Despite U.S. and Kenyan assurances to the contrary, ``everyone thought they were here to set up a base,ââ said Ghalib Al-Alwiy Sharriff, owner of the popular Bush Gardens restaurant. ``Lamu people are suspicious.ââ They apparently are also slow to learn.
Lamu was once ruled by sultans from the Arabian peninsula, and the town has benefited from Saudi funding of mosques, schools and the hospitals. Many in the town of about 20,000 speak basic Arabic, so they can understand Arab TV stations that ``are not showing the good side of America,ââ Sharriff said. Boy, those Saudis sure do fund a whole bunch of mosques! Theyâre everywhere!
Apart from a steady stream of Iraq and West Bank footage, they also carry American TV shows such as ``Buffy the Vampire Slayer,ââ which donât go down too well in a deeply traditional society. "Fatuma! Lookeedat!"
``The devil! It is from the devil!ââ shouted Fatuma, an elderly veiled woman, whose teenage daughter is a Buffy fan. Momâs a lost cause but maybe Babykins will give us a chance.
American commanders say that by mixing into the 5-15 percent Muslim minority in Kenya, the soldiers can learn about an unfamiliar culture and showcase their own. ``When we reach out, both sides see the human angle,ââ said Maj. Ralph Engeler of the 478th, speaking from Camp Lemonier in Djibouti. Engeler said he could understand the skeptical reception in Lamu, but ``I think that by having a better understanding of each othersâ cultures ... we may be able to deny terrorists the ability to prey on the more desolate areas, the poor areas, where they become embedded very easily.ââ In late July, the soldiers set up shop at Lamuâs King Fahd District Hospital, named after the Saudi king, and began performing routine medical checkups and lifesaving surgery, including an emergency Caesarean section. In early September, temporary medical and veterinary clinics opened in Wajir, an isolated town just 60 miles from Somalia, a nation also said to be an al-Qaida haven. The soldiers - who donât wear uniforms in town - have fixed the schoolâs plumbing and rebuilt the slippery waterfront steps to the wooden dhows that are the main coastal transport. Whole western notion of charity and good works just isnât going to sell easily in this part of the world.
Lamuâs ambivalence was evident in conversation with Fahima Ahmed, a soft-spoken 17-year-old student at the school who dismissed the rumors of poisoned water. ``Of course we are thankful that the soldiers are helping us,ââ she said. ``But that doesnât mean America is not killing Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan. It does not mean Muslims and Americans can always be on the same side.ââ Wonât know til you try, Fahima.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/22/2003 3:30:54 AM ||
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The chutzpah. He didn't care about Muslims being gassed by Saddam, starved to death by Taliban or cut to pieces in Algeria. And the little Uncle Tom doesn't seem to acre about the blacks being killed and raped by Muslims in Sudan and other places.
#2
Saudi subversion is going on in America. The more hostile the mosque or Islamic Center that is built, the more local politicians (AKA: whores) attend opening ceremonies. In New Jersey, locals fight construction of mosques. Now, that's a great State!
Posted by: Vlad the Muslim Impaler ||
11/22/2003 7:22 Comments ||
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The house of Saud needs renovating, downsizing in the Arabian economy
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/22/2003 10:09 Comments ||
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I am just trying to reconcile the belief that women are breeders to them watching Buffy. Maybe that is the way to the hearts and minds of Islamic women -- a small, blond, kick-ass, woman who stands up against evil supernatural forces.
#5
I missed something. I didn't realize that we were in Kenya.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/22/2003 11:44 Comments ||
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I say f*ck all this. We see it as bridge-building good samaratanism. They see it as servitude and demand it as their right. Let them live or die as their ability allows.
"You think we're Christian Crusader Infidels? Fine, we'll just move on down the road to the nearest Christian town, set up shop, and start helping THEM."
Six months of "Christian brothers" helping each other, and they'll be so green with envy, they'll be demanding equal time. Normally, they'd take out their frustrations by rioting and burning a few Christian Churches (and Christians), but they wouldn't dare with US Soldiers in town.
They'll just sit and do what Muslims do best when outdone: Seethe.
#8
- Re. propaganda : what has always surprized me is the clumsiness and ineffectiveness of the various US countercampaigns or "friendly" psyops. You're supposed to be the leading "soft power", yet you are seemingly unable to conciously project a better image. I simply can't understand it.
- Re. chrisitanity : even if antagonizing the muslim world is to be avoided, religion should be accounted when prioritizing aid, trade, ties, and the like. There is a deliberate effort by some (you know who) muslims to set up a global non-reciprocity (christian NGO will help muslims, but islamic NGO will only help muslims, religious freedom is expected for muslim in non-muslim area, but denied to non-muslims in most islamic countries, etc, etc...). This has to be countered in some way, if only to re-establish a balance (help to the south-sudaneses, anyone? To the christian minority in Pakland?...).
European simply cannot, for many reasons, even begin to formulate this demand; GWB seems to be the perfect candidate for this.
Hundreds of thousands of Iranians protested against Israel here on the last Friday of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, marking the Jerusalem Day initiated by the late Ayatollah Khomeini to support the Palestinians. The demonstrators, including families, ferried in to central Tehran by thousands of buses and private cars, chanted slogans against Israel, the United States and its ally Britain. Effigies of US President George W. Bush and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon were set ablaze on major avenues around Tehran University. "Death to Israel, Death to Britain, Death to America," chanted the protesters, some of them wearing the black-and-white keffiyeh chequered headscarf of the Palestinians.
It's one of those quaint local traditions...
"We want to make Israel understand that the Palestinians are not alone," said one student, giving her name as Zohreh. Several top Iranian officials, including President Mohammad Khatami, parliament speaker Mehdi Karubi and judiciary chief Ayatollah Mahmud Hashemi Shahrudi, took part in the demonstration. Did Binny and the Doc show? Theyâre reputed to be official Black Hats these days if one is to believe Mansoor Ijaz ...
The protests were inaugurated by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the late founder of the Islamic republic. Jerusalem Day is supported by both the conservative and reformist movements in Iran. "Israel has no future. Those who are counting on a tumour are wrong. The Islamic world must help so we are able to solve the question of Palestine," influential former president Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani said. "We are not those who say the Jews should be thrown into the sea, there are Jews who came to Israel to make homes. That is a fact. But every person living in Palestine must have a vote," he added. Yeah ... right.
Iran does not recognise Israel and advocates the creation of a single multi-faith state comprising Israel and the Palestinian territories, whose rulers would be elected not only by its inhabitants but also the five million Palestinian refugees living across the world. This would give Palestinian voters a clear majority. I somehow doubt that in the context Rafsanjaniâs previous comments on what happens to Israel as soon as Iran gets its hands on nukes ...
At the end of the demonstration, protestors read out a declaration calling on "Palestinian groups to stay united and not to submit themselves to so-called (peace) plans like the âroadmapâ and follow the course of struggle and jihad (holy war)." The demonstratorsâ declaration also called for the setting up of an "international tribunal to judge the Zionist crimes and in particular those of Sharon."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/22/2003 1:02:21 AM ||
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Let's begin by judging Islamist crimes in Sudan, Timor, Kenya, Kashmere and a lot of other places. Lets begin by judging the war crimes perpetrated in Lebanon by the PLO and Muslim groups. Then and only then we will talk about small beer.
Posted by: Rafael ||
11/22/2003 7:58 Comments ||
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These guys can't be allowed to get the bomb. They would consider themselves untouchable and who knows what sort of mayhem they would spread. Several boatloads of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children would do the trick I think.
#4
Okay,if the 5 million palestinian 'refugees' around the world get to vote in the elections of this proposed 'multi-ethnic state' then all the Jews of the Disporia(sic) should also have the same right. Nearly all the Jews around the world are decendents of the Jewish refugees kicked out of Israel by the Romans. Now who has the majority?
AT least 10 civilians were killed overnight during a bombing raid by Sudanese government forces on villages and rebel positions in the countryâs troubled western Darfur region, a rebel official said. Just some more ethnic cleansing by the NIF and their "militias" to wrap up Ramadan ...
The official from the Sudan Liberation Movement (SLM) accused the government of committing with the bombing attacks a "flagrant violation of the ceasefire" that has been in place since September 3. My guess would be that itâs the Arab militias who are one step removed from the NIF supported by the air force, rather than the NIF military themselves. Thereâs been accusations floating around these militias are made up of al-Qaeda fighters who are paying back Bashir for his hospitality by helping him knock off a sizeable chunk of the natives. If thatâs true (and the information generally comes from pro-rebel outlets) then this could easily be their handiwork backed up by the Sudanese air force, which we already know likes to bomb civilians.
Speaking in Cairo by telephone, Abdallah Hassaballah said the bombing raid attacked SLM positions and villages in the Cornei region, about 130km north of al-Fasher, the main town in the semi-desert Darfur. "At least 10 civilians, including women and children, have been killed and a certain number have been injured," he said. Since February, Darfur, on Sudanâs border with Chad, has been the scene of clashes between SLM rebels and government forces backed by local militias. The militias are the ones who have carried out most of the actual massacres and the like thus far, thereby providing the NIF with plausible deniability for whatâs going on in Darfur.
At least 3000 people have been killed and hundreds of thousands displaced by the fighting, with the conflict choking economic development in the region. But is it a Quagmire(TM) yet?
The government and the SLM are due to restart negotiations aimed at reaching a comprehensive settlement on December 4 in Chad. Chad, incidentally, is said to be backing some if not all of the Darfur rebels. Itâs an ethnic thing, I guess ...
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/22/2003 12:53:30 AM ||
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The Messalit, Fur, Berti, Zaghawa and Toubou tribes that are under attack by Arab cattle nomads (baggara) are African and came late to Islam. The baggara, generally as Africanized as the tribes they attack, are supported by the Nile River Arabs who though intermixed with Africans like to trace their roots to Saudi Arabia. Their leaders are a racist pack of jackals who have been carrying on their own war against the Southern Sudanese since Sudanese independence in 1955.
Since independence, the tribes of the periphery have argued that the core (the Khartoum Arabs) could care less about them. And this can be visualized as yet another effort by the periphery to be free of a vicious uncaring government whose leaders are only bent on feathering their own nest.
The leader of Arab mercenaries who operate in Chechnya, Abu al Valid, says terrorist acts will be conducted in other Russian regions as well, with attacks made on Russian military facilities situated in "Russiaâs Islamic republics." Qatar TV channel Al Jazeera received a copy of the tape with al Validâs speech. Al-Valid = Abu Walid. Looks like heâs taking a page out of his bossâs book by sending tapes to al-Jazeera.
Al Jazeera claims Abu al Valid made this speech at a session of a council of Chechen militants even before the beginning of Moslemsâ lent Ramadan. Abu al Valid acknowledged that Chechen militants use female suicide bombers to perpetrate acts of terrorism. Local Learned Elders of Islam, Iâm guessing. Anybody shocked about his admission?
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/22/2003 12:38:18 AM ||
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Istanbul yesterday, Sudan today, Russia tomorrow -- al Q boys must get frequent flyer miles on their car rentals.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/22/2003 3:11 Comments ||
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Al Qaeda does seem to be re-energized. Maybe the check they got from Shoddy Arabia cleared, maybe Iranian Mullahs. Whomever it is , it is clear they are on the attack.
#3
Seems there is a strong bipolar struggle bettween Iranian interests and SA. Both trying to win the hearts and minds of the ummah. SA with their madrassa's, daycare facilities, and jihadi recruiting vs Iran with their bomb builders and revolutionaries. Funny how the two seem to be so opposite. An Iranian public somwhat wanting freedom(?) and SA with a public that is whacko. But both lead by paranoids
#4
The money source is definitely SA, and possibly Iran. The sooner SA gets shut off the better the world will be. This is insane for the western world to be funding its own destruction. And horribly frustrating to see our troops killed with Saudi and Iranian (plus Baathist) petrodollars.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/22/2003 23:45 Comments ||
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The leader of the Lebanese-based Shiite fundamentalist movement Hezbollah has threatened to strike at the heart of Israel if the Jewish state acted on threats to attack Lebanon or Syria. Speaking to thousands of supporters in Beirut, Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah also said the United States was the chief culprit behind attacks against Western interests across the Middle East. "It is true that the Israeli air force is powerful, but if they attack our people or our (Syrian) brothers, it is our legitimate right to strike not only the (border) regions but anywhere we can," Sheikh Nasrallah said in a speech. "The arm of resistance is long and its counter-attack will be beyond all expectations," he said.
In which case it'd also be the Israelis' legitimate right to carpet bomb your beturbanned ass...
Sheikh Nasrallah also took a swipe at Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, branding him a "frog that looks frightened", ridiculing "his generals" and their "impotent army" as "incapable" of invading any Arab country.
Though fully capable of repelling invasions from any Arab country...
He also urged Arabs and Muslims continue to donate cash to the Palestinian uprising that broke out in September 2000.
Wossa motta? Yasser starting to run short?
Turning his attention to incessant violence in Iraq and this month's bombings in Riyadh and Istanbul, Sheikh Nasrallah said: "Hatred of the United States has not stopped growing. If you consider what happened in Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iraq and elsewhere, condemnation must be levelled primarily against the United States, even before knowing who is behind" these attacks.
"I mean, it's gotta be their fault! Who else's could it be?"
"The fact that the United States propagates democracy in the region, does nothing to diminish its responsibility for instability and death in the region," he added. "The United States is a serious threat to the stability and security of the region," he said, likening the US-led occupation of Iraq with Israel's continued presence in the Palestinian territories, which would "lead to the destruction of the state of Israel," he said.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
11/22/2003 00:25 ||
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"The fact that the United States propagates democracy in the region, does nothing to diminish its responsibility for instability and death in the region,"
And the fact that he even mentions that the US wants democracy in the region underscores the message that the word is getting out, even to the numbnuts who go to Hez rallies...This guy sounds scared. And he should be.
#3
The leader of the Lebanese-based Shiite fundamentalist movement Hezbollah has threatened to strike at the heart of Israel if the Jewish state acted on threats to attack Lebanon or Syria.
It's high time to rain some heavy metal down on southern Lebanon. If the Lebanese government can't/won't do something about this little problem called Hezbollah, then maybe someone else should.
#5
Let's not put all our marines in one hotel this time, please.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/22/2003 21:05 Comments ||
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Hizbollah is still owed a body slam for 200+ deaths of good men in Beruit in 83. We are waiting. This cancer on the land is begging for surgery. Anybody who threatens the US in a public way like that needs a MOAAB. Or two. Or more.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/23/2003 0:09 Comments ||
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Kenyan police have charged a ninth suspect with murder in connection with last year's bombing of an Israeli-owned hotel in the port city of Mombasa. Mohamed Ali Saleh Nabhan has pleaded not guilty after being charged with 15 counts of murder. He was arrested in Kenya last month. The bombing of the Mombasa Paradise Hotel last November killed 18 people — 12 Kenyans, three Israelis and three presumed suicide bombers.
I'm not blinded by their speed and aggressiveness, but I guess they're working on it...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
11/22/2003 00:24 ||
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Maybe they can delay the trial until Kenya has judges that aren't on the take.
With muslims being a minority in Kenya, you would think that the majority of people would take offense to them blowing up the place.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/22/2003 11:48 Comments ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
