#1
Are you hoping the people here are going to be able to tell you if it's true or not?
The things that bug me: It sounds like they were trying to decide whether to kidnap him (which at the time was probably an unrealistic goal) or whether to perform assasination by cruise missile, which as long as he kept moving, was also an unrealistic goal. If you believe that warfare is the art of the possible, ask yourself what was possible or likely to achieve success, as far as dealing with OBL went.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
02/21/2004 18:03 Comments ||
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#2
Guys, I blogged this, too.
I think the WaPo--as usual--was trying to take the blame off their boy Bill Clinton and make it look as if losing Bin Laden were all the CIA's fault.
Nice try. No--um, er--cigar.
Bill's indecisiveness, obsession with American concepts of "legality" and terrorism as a "crime", overreliance on popularity polls and hatred of the military and its use led to his "do-nothing" strategy.
Hello 9/11.
#4
how much money and effort would've been saved if he'd been killed where he stood rather than bring him back to Virginia for the lawyer-job production effort prior to killing his stupid sick ass? When they flee the US - kill them when/where found and make it known internationally
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/21/2004 19:06 Comments ||
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#5
Jennie - I thought it more balanced than that, depending on how much weight you put on the reliability of the TRODPINT 'weekend warriors' and the White House's stance on civilian casualties. In light of 9/11, I'm close to indifferent on that point as long as we got Binny but it sounds like the Clintonites would have freaked if even a couple of civilians were killed. I think the key point to account for is that we couldn't get an intel asset close to Binny; that's why we were always a day or two behind his actual movements. The broad brush stroke continues to indicate there was too much caution / legalities involved at both the CIA and the White House.
Plus, ther's more tommorow about the CIA and Mossad Massoud. Should be very interesting.
#6
What I'm beginning to suspect, if you haven't already guessed... is that any successful attempt to "get" OBL in the pre-9/11 (or pre-cruise-missile-assasination-attempt) period would have been to have put people on the ground in the area who could have made the decision to kill him themselves. I suspect kidnapping him, getting away, and holing up in a cave for a month wouldn't have worked.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
02/21/2004 22:29 Comments ||
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#7
Raj, you don't get a cigar either.
Clinton actually had 12 opportunities to get OBL and I don't think civilian casualties were the hindrance in the least.
In fact, Clinton had no problem sending a cruise missile into the middle of Khartoum, Sudan even though the Sudanese government offered to hand Osama over without any kind of an attack.
Clinton just wouldn't and couldn't make the decision to get him.
At best, as this article relates, he gave conflicting orders (to kill him and round him up to bring him over for trial) that cancelled each other out.
Bubba didn't want to make the decision for the reasons I gave above and so would put it off and put it off until the intell we had--which was very good BTW--indicated that the window of opportunity had passed.
Read Richard Miniter's book "Losing Bin Laden," in which he describes our subs and planes awaiting Clinton's orders for hours, and Rich Lowry's book "Legacy," in which he reveals, among other things, that Billy Jeff couldn't make a move unless the polls told him the American people would approve, for all the pertinent details.
I also hope that if OBL isn't already dead and our guys get him, that they kill him. But as they said below on another post, bring back his head, which we can have fun with.
We don't need the agony of a trial for him here. Ever.
(Look at Saddam's case--Best case scenario is that he won't come to trial for 2 years. And happy day! The Red Thingy has been to see him.)
#8
If they ever find out where he is, they should just destroy him (to use the Russian terminology). We don't need an OJ-like circus in the courts over this guy's atrocities.
#9
If we did find him, I suspect we would hole him up in a cave until he was wrung so dry that he lost 98% of his body weight (get it..we are 98% water...). Who knows...maybe we already have.
Somewhat edited for length. Like most leftwingers, Bernie Sanders take a lot of writing to say so little...
How do we build a political movement in this country that represents all of the people and not a handful of millionaires? Cut taxes and a bloated federal and state governments, thatâs how.
The middle class is collapsing, the people on top are making out like bandits, and the poorest people are struggling just to keep their heads above water. No, Bernie; your mind is collapsing in on itself... Too much jerking off about your hero, Karl...
Today, the concentration of wealth and income in this country is not only greater than at any time since the 1920s, but it is far greater than in any other major country on Earth. ...Marxist ranting, long and incoherent...
Thatâs not America, and weâre going to change that. Youâre going to repudiate socialism and embrace capitalism? Goodie!
Today, the largest employer in America is not General Motors. It is Wal-Mart, which pays people subsistence wages and minimal benefits. It is now being sued by workers in twenty-eight states because the company is not even paying the overtime it should be paying. But itâs not just Wal-Mart. It is the transformation of the American economy that Congress is not talking about, that the President certainly is not talking about, and that the media is not talking about. Maybe because your socialist ideas wonât work? Perhaps?
In the last three years alone, we have lost over two-and-a-half-million manufacturing jobs that were paying people decent middle class wages. And when you talk about patriotism, and when you talk about the American flag, what is corporate America doing by throwing American workers out on the street, moving to China, moving to countries where people canât even form a union or stand up for their rights? Letâs talk about patriotism. Letâs talk about investing in America and expanding the middle class. Itâs called competition, Bernie. The American way.
Corporate America essentially is saying the hell with the American worker, the hell with the United States of America. We will do anything we want in order to make more and more profits. Last I checked, the only folks who think there are two Americas are the ones who want to fracture it. Like you.
And my friends, it is not only manufacturing jobs that are going abroad. If some of you say, "Well, I went to college, man, I know how to work that computer. I have a good job," think twice. Theyâre after your jobs, as well. If thereâs a computer or a telephone job, it could be done any place in the world at a fraction of the wages that are paid in America. And thatâs where corporate America is moving... The scandal of our time is that with all the explosion of technology and productivity the average American is not working fewer hours and making more money. We are not down to a thirty-hour week. The middle class is not expanding, and poverty has not been eliminated. On the contrary, it has increased. All the poverty programs, which did NOT work by the way, are a major factor for increasing poverty
Because of the greed of corporate America, real wages in the private sector are 8 percent less than they were thirty years ago. And where has all of that accumulated wealth gone? It has gone to the people on top, who have seen a huge increase in the percentage of wealth and income they receive. There you go again. Trying to seperate corporations from everyone else. And profits are what make an economy go, not government programs you are so in love with.
Let me say a word about those people. And itâs important that we talk about that because youâre not going to read about it in most newspapers or see it on television. It is very clear that these people have put their own greed ahead of the middle class and working families of this country. What they are now doing is living in guarded compounds. They donât have to get on the airlines like you do. They fly in their Lear jets. They donât get on crowded mass transit to get to work. They donât have to worry about how their kids are going to go to college or high school because they have the money to send their kids to the best private schools in America; they have enough money to buy their way to get their kids into any college in America. Thatâs how they live--separate and segregated from whatâs going on in this country. And our job is to tell them that if they donât come back to America, then the hell with them. Weâll go forward without them. Weâll go further even faster with more tax cuts and cut in governments. And government supported mass transit are a bargain, but they usually donât turn a buck, and they donât make sense in a market economy.
If the President of the United States were here today--and believe me, I wish he were here today, I wish he would come out and talk to ordinary Americans--he would tell you his greatest accomplishment is the tax breaks that he has given America. What he wonât tell you is that 40 percent of those tax breaks went to the richest 1 percent, the people who need it the least, and that millions and millions of Americans who really need those tax breaks are getting nothing or only a few dollars. What he will also not tell you is whatâs really behind those tax breaks. The rich provide jobs and deserve to be rewarded for these investments through a better tax structure, but not according to you.
The President of the United States represents, and works very hard for, the very wealthiest people in this country. And, just coincidentally, he is on his way to raising $200 million from these very same people for his primary campaign--and he doesnât even have an opponent. So it doesnât surprise us that when he gives out tax breaks, they mostly go to the rich and the heads of large corporations. That we can understand. Itâs grotesque, but thatâs politics. More money is flying into Congress in campaign contributions than you can believe. Youâve got to duck so you donât get hit by the money. Amazing. You mean the blocking of court nominees, the awful ad hominem attacks, the treasonous statements by democrats and their leftist allies over the passed year; all this doesnât count as an opponent? ...snip more incoherent bullsh*t...
Our struggle, the struggle of millions of people for 150 years, has been for basic human dignity. It has been a struggle to create a country that belongs to all of us and not just the people on top, and that is our struggle of today. Wealth created can belong to all of us. Just cut taxes and government, as well as regulations and you will see a better society.
Sometimes progressives say, well, you know, weâre right, but weâre really kind of fringe. Our views are not reflective of a vast majority of the people. After all, Bush, well, was almost elected, and there is rightwing control of the House of Representatives, led by a gentleman named Tom DeLay. There is rightwing control of the United States Senate. Very few people in the media reflect our point of view. So they must be representing the majority of the people, and weâre just a smart minority of the people. You mean the socialist viewpoints I get bombarded with on a routine basis on NPR is actually a paranoid delusion?
I want you to disabuse yourselves of that notion. You represent mainstream America. We are the majority. Go out on Main Street, stand at the corner, and ask people a simple question. Tell them youâre doing an informal poll, and ask them if they want 40 percent of the tax breaks, hundreds of billions of dollars, to go to the top 1 percent, or whether those breaks should be spread around more fairly and be used for education or lowering the deficit. Then tell me who is "fringe." Ask them if we should maintain our disintegrating health care nonsystem or establish a universal health care system that guarantees health care for all. Then tell me who is "fringe." Ask them if we should continue to let polluters destroy our environment, or move to safe, sustainable energy. Then tell me who is "fringe." Of course they will take the soak the rich scheme. Then they will spend their money on HD TV and beer, and will not create jobs for anyone.
So how do the rightwingers get elected if they have nothing to say about the most important issues facing the American people? That is the central question of modern American politics. And the answer is that they work day and night to divide the American people against each other so that they end up voting against their own best interests. That is what the Republican Party is all about. Republican Party, as far as I am concerned is about three things: Guard the coasts, deliver the mail and leave me alone.
They tell white workers their jobs are being lost not because corporate America is downsizing and moving to China, but because black workers are taking their jobs--because of affirmative action. White against black. Just a hint, Bernie: You just played a race card.
If you turn on talk radio, what you will hear, in an almost compulsive way, is a hatred of women. And theyâre telling working class guys, you used to have some power. You used to be the breadwinner. But now there are women running companies, women in politics, women making more money than you. Men against women. The only place I hear that is on NPR. Which talk radio are you talking about?
And theyâre turning straight people against gay people. The homosexuals are taking over the schools! Gay marriage is destroying the country! Straights against gays. You mean folks who behave conventionally against those who love themselves so much, they must have sex with someone of their own gender, right?
And if youâre not for a war in Iraq waged on the dubious and illegal doctrine of "preemptive war," youâre somehow unpatriotic. And those of us who were born in America are supposed to hate immigrants. And those of us who practice religion in one way, or believe in the separation of church and state, are supposed to be anti-religious, and trying to destroy Christianity in America--and we get divided up on that. And on and on it goes. I have always said that once the debate is over and the vote taken, you live with the results and let the troops do the mission with EVERYONEâs full support.
The Republican leadership does all of this in an incredibly cynical, poll-driven way, because they know when you lay out their program about the most important economic issues facing America, it ends up that they are representing the interests of 2 percent of the population. You canât win an election with the support of 2 percent. So they divide us, and the result is that tens of millions of working people vote against their own interests. Again, Bernie; You are doing the dividing with this screed.
We know, that come election time, they will have huge sums of money that we will never come near to having. But we also know something else: that we are the vast majority of the people. We are the middle class and working families, and there are a hell of a lot more of us than there are of them. To be effective politically, we cannot talk only to people who agree with us. Thatâs easy. The hard part is going out and talking to people in the working and middle classes who donât yet agree with us. And we have to understand that on some issues there will be differences of opinion. But if we focus on the basic economic issues--and we explain to people that when they cast their votes solely on issues like abortion, or gay rights, or any other single issue, the rich and the powerful are laughing all the way to the bank--we will be successful in bringing people together and winning elections. Well, Bernie you know as well as anyone gay rights is a non-starter at the ballot box. The judicial system may abdicate their common sense and morals, but the voters havenât.
Now what are some of the issues? Let me just list a few. The middle class is collapsing, and we need a fundamental alternative to trickle down economics and unfettered free trade. Which is socialism: doesnât work here.
Weâve got to raise the minimum wage to a living wage. Which has the capacity the cause even more job losses...
Weâve got to put people to work building affordable housing, schools, mass transportation, and a sustainable energy system. The market determines housing and what companies will build which housing. Mass transporation is usually a boondoggle, and a âsustainable energy policyâ means wrecking our energy infrastructure.
Our national priorities are backwards. Instead of giving huge tax breaks to the rich and large corporations, we should provide for the middle class and working families of this country. Higher education and child care should be available to all Americans--regardless of income. Our veterans should not be placed on waiting lists for the health care they were promised. The national disgrace of the United States having the highest rate of childhood poverty in the industrialized world must be eliminated. We must expand and protect Social Security, not privatize it. Now, I may be wrong, but the last person to employ me wasnât poor OR middle class
Environmental degradation is threatening the wellbeing of our planet. We must move to sustainable and nonpolluting forms of energy as well as energy conservation. Think about how many decent-paying jobs we can create as we move this economy off of fossil fuel. âSustainableâ is Liberalspeak for wrecking the infrastructure of our society.
We must work for world peace, and not U.S. imperial power. The United States must work with the United Nations and the international community to stabilize Iraq so that the Iraqi people can control their future. We must bring U.S. troops home as soon as feasible. I guess Dubyaâs two visits to the UN was a paranoid delusion.
Today, we are honoring Bob La Follette. Weâre remembering one of your other great members of Congress, Victor Berger. We remember your fellow Midwesterner Eugene Debs. And we remember all of those people throughout history, some of them whose names we donât know, people who struggled for workersâ rights, for public education, against racism, sexism, homophobia. Some of them died in their struggle. Many of them suffered. What they had in common was a vision they fought for, and weâre very grateful that they passed that vision on to us. Racism and sexism is practiced by socialists and their democratic sllies. And now, we have heterophobia.
And that vision is not the vision of George Bush, which basically says itâs every person for himself or herself, that we donât have to worry about the children, we donât have to worry about the poor, we donât have to worry about the old, we donât have to worry about working people. Weâre all going to go out and get it for ourselves, to hell with the environment, to hell with future generations, to hell with anybody else. Thatâs Bushâs vision. No, thatâs the socialist vision.
The vision that La Follette and others have given us is something that we appreciate very much because it makes us all better human beings. In this great country, we can create an economy that provides for a decent standard of living for every man, woman, and child. We can have social justice and end discrimination based on race, gender, and sexual orientation. We can move toward harmony with the environment, not a war against the environment. Social justice: See racism, sexism and heterophobia...
We are part of an American community and a world community. And we are not going to be going to war whenever the President of the United States says itâs a good idea. Weâre going to work with the international community, with the United Nations, to create a world where we eliminate war and eliminate poverty. Did the United nations turn into an investment bank while I wasnât paying attention? Oh, you must mean the UNâs version of investments: Palestinian refugee camps which, under the watchful and encouraging eyes of the UN enables genocide against Israelis, or howâs about the prostitution rings on Bosnia? Is that the investment and âworking with the UNâ you are talking about?
But to do this, we have to understand that politics is not just an anti-war demonstration. Itâs not just coming out on a given day to express concerns about the environment, or racism, or whatever the single issue may be. Politics is a 365-day-a-year struggle. We have to have the courage to knock on doors even if some people may disagree with us. Weâve got to get on the telephone and start making calls. We have to be in touch with our local radio and television stations and the local newspaper. And when we do that, there is no doubt in my mind that not only will we win the next election, but we will create an America that Bob La Follette would be very proud of. Your socialist comrades have to get passed folks like me first.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
02/21/2004 18:25 Comments ||
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#5
Note to hE. Leafe a quart of bear bonds next to the St. Marks lite. We will remit your bong via UPS as soon as the bear bonds float.
Posted by: Napoleon VII ||
02/21/2004 19:19 Comments ||
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#6
The funnny (sad really) thing is that communists like this guy (and make no mistake, he is a communist) were responsible for the deaths of about 100 million people in the last century. His utopia always winds up being a death camp. Asshat.
Posted by: Remote Man ||
02/21/2004 21:28 Comments ||
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#7
The
"Every person for himself"--that's more Libertarian but the GOP has jumped on that bandwagon! These comments are obviously those of a deranged ditto head--lay off the Oxycontin Badanov--wanting a better America does not make one a Communist! And for those of you agreeing just because you have a couple hundred K in your 401K doesn't make you a "Bush League" player
Posted by: NotMike Moore ||
02/21/2004 23:12 Comments ||
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#8
FYI:
La Follette's Progressive Party (Socialist, 1920's) platform called for government takeover of the railroads, elimination of private utilities, direct subsidies by giovernment owned and operated banks for farmers, the mandatory right of workers to organize unions, increased protection of "civil liberties", an end to "U.S. imperialism" in Latin America (i.e. the end of the Monroe doctrine), and a plebiscite before any President could again lead the nation into war (i.e. mob rule, and the hamstrining of the ability fo the US to act militarily).
Tells you where this asswipe is coming from if he holds up such a guy as an exemplar.
From The American Muslim magazine. by Shahed Amanullah, editor of altmuslim.com.
.... We live in an environment that is increasingly hostile to Islam; perhaps not physically, but certainly socially and politically. And with the calls for tolerance and respect towards Muslims long gone, the Muslim-haters are out tarring us with the brush of terrorism more than ever before....
We needed to be a part of the solution to terrorism, not just simply brushing it off as if it werenât our problem. We missed an opportunity to own 9/11, seeing that over 100 of the victims in New York were Muslim - more than our proportion of the general population. We allowed ourselves to be put into the camp of the terrorists by not sharing or even understanding the righteous anger that all Americans feel over 9/11. By all accounts, we failed miserably.
So where did we go wrong? Well, one of the problems is that Muslims are very reluctant to criticize other Muslims. Itâs easy to condemn the 19 hijackers, or even al-Qaida, but Muslims need to address and condemn the infrastructure that lies underneath it all - the active supporters of terrorism, the ideology that breeds it, and the unholy hero-worship that surrounds jihadis. .... This fact has not been lost on close observers of Muslims, and is the reason that accusations of association with terrorists are so persistent. ...
Muslims have resorted to simplistic "Islam means peace" platitudes and tying American foreign policy to condemnations of the 9/11 attacks, only to be puzzled by the negative reaction of other Americans. These things may seem nitpicky to many Muslims, but to those of us steeped in American culture, those attitudes convey a very different message than the one intended. It is a message of indifference, of excuses, of lack of compassion.
Worse, they convey the message that although extremist Muslims were at the root of last yearâs terrorism, peace-loving Muslims donât want to have anything to do with combatting it. Nobody likes people who are self-serving and who donât want to pitch in to solve a societal problem, and Muslims have, perhaps unintentionally, promoted an image of being self-serving.
This doesnât fit our stated goal of wanting to be included in the larger American community, and it breeds resentment by Americans who feel that they are stuck cleaning up the messes Muslims create.
The reluctance that Muslims feel to actively fight extremism is partly due to the humiliation of being associated with terrorism. A lot of Muslims feel that it is like saying, "I am not a child molester" every time someone looks at you. Thatâs understandable - Muslims feel like they have nothing to do with the violence of 9/11, and do not want to suffer the indignity of having to deny a connection to it. But it is part of the unfortunate reality of the post-9/11 landscape.
American Muslims need to decide what is more important to them: preserving their dignity or insuring the future of Islam in America. Every day that we donât connect with other Americans on this level, we make it much harder for our children and grandchildren to be Muslim in America. And while it is true that many Muslims donât understand American culture enough to connect, those who donât should at least not get in the way of those who do.
.... We could have avoided "explaining" the attacks by bringing up U.S. foreign policy -- as if anyone could forget where we stand on Palestine or Iraq sanctions! We could have offered effective anti-terrorism policies that are acceptable for Muslims rather than simply opposing those of the U.S. Many Muslims are indeed doing this on an individual level, and they need to be acknowledged and supported. But we havenât done this as a community.
If we want the American Muslim community to be healthy and flourishing three generations from now, we need to stem the tide of misunderstanding and hate now before it snowballs into something worse. (If youâre having trouble imagining what "worse" means, just think about how Americans will react if - God forbid - a second or third attack the scale of 9/11 happens.)
We need to - as our religion commands us - seek justice in the wake of 9/11 in such a clear way that the beauty of Islam and Muslims is evident to all. We need to show more empathy towards those whose lives have been forever changed by the attacks of a year ago. We need to not just say "Islam means peace" to non-Muslims -- we have to take that message to those Muslims here and abroad that consider random violence an acceptable means of doing Godâs will. Yes, the cards are stacked against us, and it will be a difficult struggle, but thatâs no excuse for complacency.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
02/21/2004 4:16:30 PM ||
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#1
Wow... this guy almost gets it. He needs to make one final leap as a Muslim: in America, Islam ("submission") must mean "submission to God", and NOT "submission to mullah". That is a distinction American Muslims must make, very emphatically. For if they don't, and continue to tacitly support the jihadis, they will someday be gone. Or dead.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
02/21/2004 18:22 Comments ||
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#2
What has it been, 2 1/2 years since Sept 11, 2001?! And this is the FIRST time I've seen a muslim say this. Many of us have been saying they have to clean up their own house from the outset - that change must come from within. But the ROP(tm) is too busy blaming Jews, the USA, and anyone else except themselves. Mebbe they should rename it the Religion of Blame.
#3
Sounds good, but is it OK if I remain skeptical? This was published in The American Muslim magazine almost a year ago by Shahed Amanullah. Have you noticed any moderate muslims standing up and criticizing the Islamofacists since then?
Amanullah is also editor of altmuslim.com.Check it out. The lead story is whining about the Army's investigation at UT Law School. Another article, I Hate All Arabs is an essay calling for Muslims not to criticize Muslims.
Amanullah may indeed get it and I hope that he and his readers do, but after reading his web site I remain doubtful.
#4
Far too little, and far too late. Note that in this line:
If we want the American Muslim community to be healthy and flourishing three generations from now, we need to stem the tide of misunderstanding and hate now before it snowballs into something worse.
He's talking about the "misunderstanding and hate" towards Muslims, not that coming from Muslims. When he confronts the latter, then call me.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
02/21/2004 19:36 Comments ||
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#5
He's talking about the "misunderstanding and hate" towards Muslims, not that coming from Muslims. When he confronts the latter, then call me.
I dunno - this line a few sentences later seems to do that:
We need to not just say "Islam means peace" to non-Muslims -- we have to take that message to those Muslims here and abroad that consider random violence an acceptable means of doing Godâs will.
Posted by: BP ||
08/08/2004 1:24 Comments ||
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#6
So the tumor is benign, now?
Whew! I feel so much better... not.
Not in the tiniest bit, in fact. I do not accept that the pathogen has, or can be, turned into a symbiotic ally. What is written, what has been practiced, what is taught says not just otherwise, but screams out that this is a placebo, a canard, and that the tumor grows and is, as it always has been, malignant.
PRESIDENT Robert Mugabe, who has been celebrating his 80th birthday, claims he recently found ground glass in his food in what may have been a murder attempt.
(Yeah right, killing someone by putting broken glass in their food only works on television)
Mugabe, Zimbabweâs leader since the African nation gained independence from Britain in 1980, told the state broadcaster during a special birthday interview a presidential cook had been eaten questioned about the incident. In the past, Mugabe has accused Western leaders of seeking to topple him. But today, he said the incident was probably internal. "I do not think it was anything to do with Western imperialism. Western imperialism is much more thorough than that," he said.
(Ah, you noticed?)
"I think it was just some internal thing. Perhaps the cook was not happy."
"Now he's even unhappier, though not for much longer."
Police today refused to comment on the alleged incident. Mugabe did not say whether he was harmed or where the incident happened - whether at his downtown presidential complex, State House and adjoining Zimbabwe House, or at his rural mansion at Kutama, 80kms west of the capital. Last month, Mugabe flew to South Africa amid reports that he needed urgent medical attention for vomiting fits. The reports were vehemently denied by presidential spokesmen.
Mugabe celebrated his 80th birthday as Zimbabwe remained mired in an economic crisis, with inflation near 700 per cent and 5.1 million people facing starvation, according to UN agencies. Ruling Zanu-PF party dignitaries from throughout the country and its youth league attended lavish celebrations in Kutama, birthplace of the former Jesuit-trained mission school teacher. The government-controlled daily, The Herald, published a 12-page supplement of congratulatory messages, many from public corporations teetering on the verge of bankruptcy. One advertisement was taken by the national airline, which recently failed to pay international creditors. Another was from the prisons department, which cannot afford to feed the 28,000 inmates in Zimbabweâs overcrowded jails. But in his birthday interview, Mugabe rejected suggestions that he might step down before the end of his current six-year presidential term in 2008. "I have not been in the habit of surrendering at all," he said. "In five years, I will be here, still boxing, writing a lot, reading quite a lot, and still in politics. I wonât leave politics but I will have retired, obviously." LINK
#3
"Ground glass" is basically sand, and about as dangerous. I'd be much more pleased to hear there was a half-pound of dried, ground hemlock in his coffee pot...
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
02/21/2004 15:17 Comments ||
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#5
Bob needs a D-Con burger and he will die the death he deserves.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
02/21/2004 15:31 Comments ||
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#6
AP - I have a suggestion. The next time we find an illegal crystal meth lab, let's force Bob to clean it up. No mask, no suit, and you can't flush that down the john. Take it all outside to that '78 Buick, and haul it back to Zim-bob-wee with you. We'll provide a barge for the cross-ocean portion of the trip.
What's that? You say your head hurts? And you've got an extra foot growing out of your ear? What about the bleeding (external) ulcer? Pour a little alcohol on it - that'll help. Your stomach hurts? So do the stomachs of all those you're starving in Bob-land. Gee, you're such a whiner, Bob. Get with the program.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
02/21/2004 15:49 Comments ||
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#7
I saw this on OZ on HBO. Obviously Bob's cook did too
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/21/2004 18:16 Comments ||
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I wrote this. Part 1
Terry Nichols met Timothy McVeigh met in May 1988 at Fort Benning, Georgia, where they were both stationed in the same Army unit as new recruits. Nichols, who was 33 years old, had enlisted after suffering a series of business failures. After basic training, both were transfered to Fort Riley, Kansas, where they were they served with Michael Fortier. Nichols was discharged from the Army in May 1989 at his own request, but he stayed in touch with McVeigh.
Nichols traveled to the Philippines in November 1989 in order to meet Filipino women through a marriage broker. On a subsequent, one-week trip in November 1990, he married Marife Torres, a resident of Cebu City, Philippines. and she moved to Decker, Michigan, in mid-1991. They lived on a farm owned by Terryâs brother, James Nichols.
McVeigh left the Army in December 1991. He became increasingly involved in gun shows. By the summer of 1992 he was helping sellers man their tables, using such opportunities to sell his own merchandise without having to rent a table. During that period he sold small blast simulators (basically home-made firecrackers) and smoke grenades. When one such seller, Gregory Pfaff, asked McVeigh to supply him more such items, McVeigh answered that his remaining stocks were "buried in the woods."
In November, McVeigh phoned Pfaff and told him he could now provide more blast simulators. Pfaff bought them and also bought some atropine (an antidote to chemical-weapons) that McVeigh brought along (Serrano, One of Ours, pages 55-56). At about that same time, Terry and Marife Nichols visited McVeigh at his home in Lockport, New York (Michel and Herbeck, American Terrorist, pages 113-114).
The coincidence of these events indicates that by November 1992 Nichols might have been supplying merchandise to McVeigh to sell at gun shows. Although the blast simulators might have been handcrafted by Nichols and his associates, the atropine certainly came from an expert producer or from stolen military stocks â perhaps in the Philippines.
In early 1993 McVeigh visited a gun show in Fort Lauderdale, Florida and met Roger Moore, who had become wealthy building boats and had subsequently run a company called American Assault Company, which sold weapons. By the time of that show, McVeigh rented his own table, displaying t-shirts, camouflage pants, canteens, duffle bags, sleeping bags, etc. Moore later said that he was interested in buying only some camouflage pants for his girlfriend, Karen Anderson.
In early April 1993, McVeigh visited a gun show in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where he met Karen Anderson at Mooreâs table. On that occasion McVeigh did not rent his own table, but rather displayed his merchandise on the Mooresâ table. After that show, visited Mooreâs and Andersonâs home in Royal, Arkansas, for ten days. Immediately after that visit, McVeigh drove to Decker, Michigan, and moved in with Terry and Marife Nichols on James Nicholsâ farm. (American Terrorist, pages 123-128).
On his farm, James Nichols employed some workers who spent some of their time experimenting with small, home-made bombs. They would combine household chemicals in plastic jugs and experiment with various detonators. It was during this period, April 19, 1993, that the Davidian compound in Waco, Texas, was destroyed.
In May, 1993, McVeigh moved from the Nicholsâ farm to Kingman, Arizona, where Michael and Lori Fortier lived. McVeigh based himself there for the next five months. He worked as a security guard and continued to sell merchandise at gun shows every week or two. By now he was selling flare launchers that he said could be used as rockets. The flares and launchers were manufactured at the Nicholsâ farm. When prospects asked where they could buy replacement flares, McVeigh gave them business cards of the American Assault Company
On one such occasion McVeigh told a government undercover agent that the rockets could be used to shoot down, for example, helicopters used by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF).
His financial situation improved enough that he considered buying a house and so asked his father for a loan to begin the transaction. (American Terrorist, pages 136-138). Also at about that same time, Terry and Marife Nichols drove from Decker, Michigan, to Pendleton, New York, gathered all of McVeighâs belongings from his family home and took them back to Decker.
At about the beginning of July, 1993, McVeigh traveled from Kingman to Las Vegas, Nevada. McVeigh later said that the only reason for this trip was to use a Kinkoâs computer to design and print some leaflets to distribute at a Fourth of July celebration in Kingman. He did not distribute the leaflets at that celebration, however.
In September 1993 McVeigh returned to Las Vegas to help Moore and Anderson run their table at a Soldier of Fortune convention there. McVeigh later explained that he was voluntarily helping Moore as a personal favor, but they got into a very angry argument because McVeigh told Moore he was going to eat lunch at a buffet and then didnât return for two hours (American Terrorist, pages 141-144). That night, Moore told McVeigh to leave and not come back.
Within a few weeks McVeigh moved back to the Nicholsâ farm. In about December 1993, Terry and Marife Nichols moved away from the farm, visited the Fortiers in Kingman, and then moved to Las Vegas to establish a household there. McVeigh stayed at the farm until February, 1994, and returned to Kingman. By that time, Marife had left the Las Vegas home and moved back to the Philippines in order to attend college in Cebu City. Terry therefore left the Las Vegas home too and spent two weeks with McVeigh and Fortier in Kingman. (American Terrorist, pages 150-151).
The Nicholsâ move from the Decker farm to Las Vegas has been explained as a result of the accidental death of their son by suffocation at the farm on November 22, 1993. The plans for that move had already begun before then, however, and merely resumed after that death. I suggest that the original plans were related to business conducted between McVeigh and Moore in Las Vegas earlier that year. McVeighâs request for a loan from his father, the Nicholsâ trip to New York to gather McVeighâs belongings, McVeighâs trips to Las Vegas, and the Nicholsâ purchase of a house in Las Vegas all, together, indicate that they expected to set up a business with Mooreâs help in the area of Las Vegas. Those plans apparently collapsed when McVeigh and Moore argued at the convention in September 1993. The collapse of these plans might have then led to a financial collapse for Nichols and McVeigh, setting them all adrift from each other.
In the spring of 1994, McVeigh traveled back to Royal, Arkansas, to try to reconcile with Moore. On that occasion, Anderson later said, Moore angrily blamed McVeigh for stealing the design for the flare launcher from Moore. After that rebuke, McVeigh left and never returned. He returned to Kingman and continued the bomb experiments that he had begun in Decker. (American Terrorist, page 151-152).
In August 1994, McVeigh left Kingman and moved in with Terry Nicholsâ at the latterâs new home in Durham, Kansas, where Nichols was working as a farm hand. There, the two decided to start a business together, selling merchandise at gun shows. Their major product, McVeigh later said, would be bags of ammonium nitrate for use in the manufacture of home-made bombs (American Terrorist, pages 154-158).
During that summer Marife returned to the United States to visit Terry in Durham, since her college in Cebu City was having summer vacation. During that visit, she began a sexual affair with McVeigh. Then Marife returned to Cebu City to begin the fall semester.
Shortly after she left, McVeigh and Nichols stole an enormous amount of explosive material from a quarry business in Marion, Kansas. On November 5, Nichols robbed Moore. McVeigh and Nichols subsequently distributed their loot to rented storerooms in various locations â including Kingman, Las Vegas, Council Grove, Kansas.
On November 22, Terry Nichols few to Cebu City to visit Marife. During the second week of December, at McVeighâs request, Lori Fortier gift-wrapped two boxes of the stolen blasting caps to look like Christmas presents. The destination of those presents is unknown, but his best friend Terry and his lover Marife spent that entire Christmas holiday in Cebu City.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
02/21/2004 2:11:47 PM ||
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Russia has successfully tested a hypersonic anti-Star Wars weapon capable of penetrating any prospective missile shield, a senior general said Thursday. The prototype weapon proved it could manoeuvre so quickly as to make âany missile defence useless,â Colonel-General Yuri Baluyevsky, the first deputy chief of the General Staff of the Russian armed forces, told a news conference. He said that the prototype of a new hypersonic vehicle had proved its ability to manoeuvre while in orbit, thereby making it able to dodge an enemyâs missile shield. âThe flying vehicle changed both the altitude and direction of its flight,â Gen. Baluyevsky said. âDuring the experiment conducted yesterday, we proved that itâs possible to develop weapons that would make any missile defence useless.â
Gen. Baluyevskyâs comment followed a statement by President Vladimir Putin, who said Wednesday after attending rocket launches from the Plesetsk launch pad in northern Russia that experiments conducted during the military manoeuvres had proved that Russia could build new strategic weapons that would be unrivalled in the world. Mr. Putin said the development of new weapons was not directed against the United States, and Gen. Baluyevsky reaffirmed the statement, saying that the experiment should not be seen as a Russian response to U.S. missile-defence plans. âThe experiment conducted by us must not be interpreted as a warning to the Americans not to build their missile defence because we designed this thing,â he told Associated Press. He said that Russia has no intention of immediately deploying new weapons based on the experimental vehicle. âWe have demonstrated our capability, but we have no intention of building this craft tomorrow,â he said. Based on last weekâs performance--or, rather, lack thereof--I think Russia needs to go back to basics before contemplating any fancy new toys.
Posted by: Dar ||
02/21/2004 2:07:27 PM ||
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#1
Oops--Hat tip: Drudge
Posted by: Dar ||
02/21/2004 14:07 Comments ||
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#2
if its Russian then its either all hype or just a prototype that will never progress further, I'm all for military competition but Russias just to skint.The whole China vs USA should make exciting viewing over the coming decades
#4
Um...a couple of points here. If its orbital then its moving much faster than hypersonic speeds. Secondly, one of our biggest fears back during the Cold War was Fractional Orbital Bombardment, this was a maneveur designed to keep the missiles on a short time limit from boost phase to target point with very little intercept time. Combine that with MIRV warheads and decoys and the result was that you usually had too few defensive missiles (unless they were topped with nukes themselves) to intercept even a single salvo of say 5-10 missiles. Anyways the main point I want to make here is that this technology and tactics were designed back in the 1960s. But if the Russkies still want to yak off about missiles and hypersonics, I say we go back to refurbishing Projects Triton and Pluto (look em up on google). Those would be real "crap your pants" systems. Hehe
#6
America needs to pump more money and brains into the ABL or even SBL (airborne or space based lasers), see how the Russkies can beat speed of light warfare, hell through in some kinda microwave beam firing weapon and its right back to square one again
#7
I thought the idea behind FOBs was to limit the track to target time or to mislead about missle tests. That being said I'm not too worried about a post Soviet FOBs system since there is evidently a problem with their SRBs..
#8
Personally I'm gonna wait for some verification of this test from a more reliable source. The closest thing I know of to a hypersonic platform the Russians have might be the joint Brahmos project with India or the Burlak rocket which is similar to our Pegasus system.
Oh and I just read an article on MSNBC on the same subject, I'll post it up for tomorrow's subject, anyway it looks like I and 11A5S were right. This isn't a new hypersonic missile, but merely MARV capable of FOB or similar type orbits. Oooh I'm scared now..anyone got some popcorn?
#9
Bravo Jon Shep UK "America needs to pump more money into..." As usual you Euros get a free ride under our defense budget while your populace enjoys a national health insurance that we can't/won't afford because all our $$ are going to Halliburton, General Dynamics and Martin Marietta---parasites!
Posted by: NotMike Moore ||
02/21/2004 23:23 Comments ||
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#10
yeah i'm gonna worry more about that than just a reg nuke
EFL
Japan tightened security at hundreds of airports, nuclear plants and government facilities Friday, dispatching armed riot police to guard against possible terror attacks as the country dispatches troops on a humanitarian mission to Iraq. A National Police Agency official confirmed the heightened security but refused to say whether the government had new information about a possible terror strike. He said it was the highest show of security in Japan since the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003. About 650 vital facilities including U.S. bases in Japan were put under increased surveillance, the Yomiuri newspaper and other media reported.
White House spokesman Scott McClellan said Japan was stepping up security ahead of sending troops to Iraq. Japan dispatched a destroyer and an amphibious vessel for the Middle East on Friday. "Japan for the last few weeks has been taking some measures to improve the police preparedness as they prepare to deploy troops to Iraq," he said. "Japan has kept us apprised of the measures they are implementing. The measures they are implementing are relating to police preparedness." The tougher security also follows a failed attempt to hit the Defense Agency with projectiles earlier in the week and precedes an expected verdict in the trial of a cult leader accused of plotting a 1995 nerve gas attack on the Tokyo subways.
The National Police official said riot police armed with automatic rifles will guard Tokyo and Kansai international airports and nuclear power and reprocessing facilities. A police officer at the Tokyo airport confirmed Saturday that riot police had been deployed but declined to elaborate. Larger police forces were being mobilized and additional checkpoints set up around the prime ministerâs residence, the U.S. Embassy, military facilities and national and local assembly buildings, the official said. Security was also strengthened at ports, railway stations and shopping malls. "We are going to beef up security at key facilities," the official said, confirming reports carried by Kyodo News agencyâs Japanese service, national broadcaster NHK and the Web site of Yomiuri Shimbun, Japanâs largest newspaper.
On Tuesday assailants apparently attempted to fire projectiles at Japanâs Defense Agency. Two blasts were heard near the Agency, and police later found two projectile launchers. There were no injuries or damage, but local media reported that a leftist group opposed to Japanâs Iraqi mission had claimed responsibility. The move also comes ahead of the verdict next Friday in the case of Shoko Asahara, the former leader of the Aum Shinrikyo cult that carried out the 1995 sarinnerve gas attack on the Tokyo subways that killed 12 people. Police earlier this week raided offices of the cult, now named Aleph, concerned it could be planning reprisals if Asahara is convicted. Prosecutors have demanded the death penalty. Beginning in late December, police tightened security at hundreds of facilities nationwide during the New Year holidays, and officers went on round-the-clock watch at train and subway stations and shipping docks. But the precautions were later eased.
Lightly edited
Greece rejected a new NATO request Friday to boost its troop contribution in Afghanistan because it needs military personnel at home to provide security at the upcoming Olympics. About 10,000 Greek military personnel will be deployed alongside 40,000 police officers in a massive Olympic security program costing more than $750 million for the Aug. 13-29 games. It was the second time in four months that Greece turned down such a request by NATO. Greece currently has a contingent of 122 soldiers, mostly engineers and medical personnel, deployed in Kabul. It also has peacekeepers in the Balkans. NATO secretary general Jaap De Hoop Scheffer said he understood the decision, and added that Greeceâs contribution could be discussed again after the games. "NATO has the ambition to have five more so-called provincial reconstruction teams under its wings, and not only provide security and stability in Kabul but also outside of Kabul," he said. "I realize fully the strains upon Greece in organizing the Olympic games, but I sincerely hope that after the Olympic games Greece will be able to participate." NATO has offered assistance in Olympic security and is currently discussing what help it can provide.
#1
was the second time in four months that Greece turned down such a request by NATO. Greece currently has a contingent of 122 soldiers, mostly engineers and medical personnel, deployed in Kabul.
Police have arrested three militants who admitted to plotting a suicide attack at the international airport in Indiaâs capital, an official said Saturday. The men, based in neighboring Pakistan, were arrested several days ago in the Indian-portion of the Himalayan region of Kashmir, said Gopal Sharma, police chief of Jammu-Kashmir state. During their interrogation, the men said they planned a suicide attack later this month at Indira Gahdhi International Airport in New Delhi, Sharma said. The three have been identified as Assan Ulah, Mohammed Bashir and Rashid, who goes by only one name, Sharma said. All three are from Pakistan, he added. Lashkar-e-Taiba, a Pakistan-based guerrilla group, was behind the plan, he said.
The objective of the plan, of course, would be to derail the Pak-Indo Kashmir peace talks.
Bin Laden âboxed inâ by US soldiers
OSAMA bin Laden is reportedly surrounded by United States special forces in a mountain range that straddles north-west Pakistan and Afghanistan. Internationally respected investigative journalist and author Gordon Thomas says the al-Qaida terror group leader has been sighted for the first time since 2001 and is being monitored by satellite. I didnât know they could see stains on a rock that clearly.
In a report to be published in a British newspaper, Thomas says bin Laden is in a mountainous area to the north of the Pakistani city of Quetta.
I don't think all this salt intake is good for my blood pressure...
More, from the Sunday Express, via the Telegraphand Drudge...
A BRITISH Sunday newspaper is claiming Osama bin Laden has been found and is surrounded by US special forces in an area of land bordering north-west Pakistan and Afghanistan. The Sunday Express, known for its sometimes colourful scoops, claims the al-Qaeda leader has been "sighted" for the first time since 2001 and is being monitored by satellite.
Is "colourful" a synonym for "accurate"? I thought not...
The paper claims he is in a mountainous area to the north of the Pakistani city of Quetta. The region is said to be peopled with bin Laden supporters and the terrorist leader is estimated to also have 50 of his fanatical bodyguards with him. The claim is attributed to "a well-placed intelligence source" in Washington, who is quoted as saying: "He (bin Laden) is boxed in." The paper says the hostile terrain makes an all-out conventional military assault impossible. The plan to capture him would depend on a "grab-him-and-go" style operation. "US helicopters already sited on the Afghanistan border will swoop in to extricate him," the newspaper says. It claims bin Laden and his men "sleep in caves or out in the open. The area is swept by fierce snow storms howling down from the 10,000 ft-high mountain peaks. Donkeys are the only transport." The special forces are "absolutely confident" there is no escape for bin Laden, and are awaiting the order to go in and get him. "The timing of that order will ultimately depend on President Bush," the paper says. "Capturing bin Laden will certainly be a huge help for him as he gets ready for the election."
Oh, that's it. They're just gonna capture him because there's an election coming up...
On Thursday last week, General Richard Myers, chairman of the US joint chiefs of staff, said America had been engaged in "intense" efforts to capture bin Laden, who was believed to be hiding in the border area between Pakistan and Afghanistan. But he insisted that the focus of the search had not narrowed for months.
#5
Based on the lack of coverage on the Kerry thing, CNN and MSNBC may wait until they bring Binny down on the floor of a joint session of Congress.
Posted by: Tim ||
02/21/2004 12:26 Comments ||
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#6
very interesting this, damn hope this could be true and i have a sneaking feeling this just may well be true, theres been alot of shit going on with the Paks in the mountins hasn't there and the US forces seem to be at least ramping up toward a spring offensive, I'm wondering could the 'spring offensive have actually began properly about 3 - 6 weeks ago but done so well so as not to draw any media near. Any thoughts?
#7
If this is true, someone needs to read all the principles of warfare by Von Clausewitz. Perhaps the "....well-placed idiot intelligence source" in Washington, can arrange for a satellite feed of all the SF positions into OBL's cave. Wouldn't won't to surprise the dear man.
#10
From the liberal media paranoia angle, could this story be a plant by the press to either alert BL or to set expectations at an absurdly high level that we are going to get him. If Bush fails then he looks like a boob.
#12
This does match with what one of our top Generals was saying a few months ago. He said something to the effect that we were within months of catching Binny.
#14
That's fine with me Jon. The soldiers just need to remember that we require the head for "recreational" purposes.
Posted by: Charles ||
02/21/2004 13:25 Comments ||
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#15
a head would be cool on the bayonet of an M-16, I can see it on the front pages now. For me though just a shread of flesh to get his DNA would be nice enough, wait no he could just lose a limb and we'd think hes dead - then a quadraplegic Binny video turns up. Seriously though i'm betiing AC-130's,Predetor UCAV's, and A-10's for the airforce element, Delta or Seals backed up by say a few hundred rangers all delivered by 160th and AFSOC heli's and Hercs, think on the lines of the whole 'spider hole' incident in Iraq and then add Spec forces and heavy airpower. I just hope the Army has a few camera men there to film the raid.
#16
Dragon Fly - I think that was a congressman (senator?)
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/21/2004 13:50 Comments ||
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#17
Correct, the US general in question and Rummsfeld (GO RUMMY,GO RUMMY) himself where somewhat more cautious when questioned about the subject, that being said, the fact that the "chatter" on this subject has steadily increased over the past couple of months in combination with the fact that Perv feels more "inclined" recently to go after the Pashtun-tribes in the area where Binnie is supposed to be hiding, leaves me somewhat optimistic that we will see the end of the saga of Bin hiding pretty soon.
#20
If this is true then lets just hope Bush goes sooner than later. The closer to the election and the dems will be crying about how Bush cost lives by waiting to capture him for political reasons.
Posted by: Dan ||
02/21/2004 15:00 Comments ||
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#21
glurg
Posted by: Jim ||
02/21/2004 15:01 Comments ||
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#22
Okay, I'm on the record for dead. If he's still alive and recently killed/ captured I'll hit the bat for Fredo... $50. Send news.
#23
I just checked and my Acme Ululator is still on the shelf where I put it, packed in cosmolene, right next to my Ship-2-Shore cleaning agent. I am not cleaning it up until we have confirmed capture, road kill DNA, etc. It took alot of work to pickle it after Sammy's capture.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
02/21/2004 15:28 Comments ||
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#24
The rational part of my brain is telling me this is tabloid baloney. The irrational part of my brain is calculating the cost of buying a blowtorch and shipping it to the Special Forces.
Posted by: Matt ||
02/21/2004 15:36 Comments ||
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#25
Just the head all we need is just the head so we can stick it on a pike in front of the White House.Then invite SA,Syria and Iran heads of state to the White House to walk past it.
Posted by: Martin Lindeskog ||
02/21/2004 20:07 Comments ||
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#28
well eviserating binnie would be nice--but he was always just a fame seeking financier and logistics guy--we need to disembowel the REAL brains behind al queda which is al zawahiri and his egyptian islamic jihad minions --they're the real terror strategists--get tojo--not just the emperor!!
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI ||
02/21/2004 22:54 Comments ||
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#29
Dead. But identifiable.
Saves the expense and idiocy of a trial, and shuts up morons like Ramsey Clark.
#30
Just throwing my two cents on the table. All the above. I thought the last state address was heavy on the OBL is next context. If they get the perp lets have a quick trial. Forbid the punk any words.
#31
The thing that worries me is that even if Osama gets killed or captured in any circumstance, people in the US (quite possibly a large chunk of people), will think the war on terror is over. I personally don't think it can be even if we get Osama, there are still his backers and funders out there.
Yasser Arafat diverted nearly $1 billion in public funds to insure his political survival, but a lot more is still unaccounted for.
(No shit Sherlock) Jim Prince and a team of American accountants are searching Arafatâs books. Given what theyâve already uncovered, Arafat may be rethinking his decision to allow his Finance Ministry to hire the anti-corruption team. So far, Princeâs team has determined that part of the Palestinian leaderâs wealth was in a secret portfolio worth close to $1 billion â with investments in companies like a Coca-Cola bottling plant in Ramallah, a Tunisian mobile phone company, and venture capital funds in the US and the Cayman Islands. Although the money for the portfolio came from public funds like Palestinian taxes, virtually none of it was used for the Palestinian people â it was all controlled by Arafat. Prince says none of these deals was made public: "Our whole point is to bring it out of control of any one person." The portfolio money is now under the control of Salam Fayyad, a Dead man walking former World Bank employee who Arafat was forced to appoint finance minister in 2002 after crowds began protesting his corrupt regime. Fayyad says, "There is corruption out there. There is abuse. There is impropriety and thatâs what had to be fixed." Statements like that have earned Fayyad a reputation for bravery â which was enhanced when he posted the details of Arafatâs secret portfolio on the Internet.
(anyone got a link for that?)
The stockpile went beyond the portfolio. Arafat accumulated another $1 billion with the help of the Israelis. Under the Oslo Accords, it was agreed Israel would collect taxes on goods bought by Palestinians and transfer those funds to the Palestinian treasury. Martin Indyk, a top Middle East adviser with the Clinton administration and now head of the Saban Centre, a Washington think-tank, says, "That money is transferred to Yasser Arafat to, among other places, bank accounts which he maintains off-line in Israel." Until three years ago, Israel put the tax revenues into Arafatâs account at Bank Leumi in central Tel Aviv, no questions asked. Indyk says: "The Israelis came to us and said, basically, âArafatâs job is to clean up Gaza. Itâs going to be a difficult job. He needs walking-around money,â because the assumption was he would use it to get control of all of these terrorists whoâd been operating in these areas for decades."
That worked well, didn't it?
Obviously that hasnât happened. Dennis Ross, a former Mid-East negotiator and now head of the Washington Institute for Near East policy, says Arafatâs "walking-around money" financed a huge patronage system. Like a political ward boss in some of the more corrupt cities in the US, Arafat still doles out lots of money. Fayyad says he pays his security forces alone $20 million a month, all of it in cash.
(Not anymore:-)
US officials estimate Arafatâs personal nest egg at between $1 billion and $3 billion.
(Conservative estimate IMHO)
Those same officials ask: Did Arafat steal from his own people?
(Does a wild bear go potty in the woods?)
Dennis Ross answers, "He defines himself as being the embodiment of the Palestinian people. So whatâs good for him is good for them. Did they benefit? The answer is no. Did they lose? The answer is yes."
"L'etat c'est moi."
Fayyad is trying to make sure itâs the peopleâs money, but many say his one-man reform effort is having only limited success. Arafat sent armed men last year to prevent Fayyad from replacing the head of the civil service, who runs Arafatâs patronage apparatus. That has led some to think Fayyad himself could be in danger. He has upset many powerful people and his offices have already been ransacked more than once. But Fayyad says he does not feel threatened: "Itâs a dangerous neighbourhood. But you know this is about, you know, doing the right thing for the people Dude."
Posted by: Evert Visser ||
02/21/2004 11:25:28 AM ||
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#1
If the Paleos ever want to rise above the cesspool they've made of their society, they'll need a lot more courageous people like Fayyad with loud voices and the will to use them. Civil war to clean up the criminals, professional thugs and terrorists seems to be the only answer
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/21/2004 11:47 Comments ||
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#2
The Paleos are getting toward the bottom but they haven't bottomed out yet. That said, exposing the money trail and what has been done with it is an important step in the downfall of the Arafish. Completion of the Fence Barrier Wall Good Neighbor Device will force the Paleos to look inward or as Frank sez, have a civil war to clean up the criminals.
It will be an ugly process, kinda like maggots going through a rat's carcass. Oh, the imagery...
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
02/21/2004 12:20 Comments ||
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#3
It's the JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS fault that Arafat stole the money. It's aways the JOOOOOOOOOOOOS fault.
Highlights
In November 1994, Terry Nichols and Ramzi Yousef both walked on the grounds of the same college campus in the Philippines.... They even booked travel on the same airline, on the same route and apparently on the same day â the exact date Yousef planned to unleash a massive September 11-style attack on the United States. ...
That's interesting. The coincidences seem to be getting longer...
When he arrived in the Philippines, Nichols showed up unannounced on the campus of Southwestern University, a Cebu City college with a strong Islamic fundamentalist movement where his wife was attending classes. Yousef visited the campus during the same period. Another of Yousefâs accomplices made phone calls to a friend on the campus during the same period. And two more al Qaeda operatives may have had business connections to the lumberyard where Nichols and his wife stayed during the visit. According to his visa records and trial testimony, Nichols was planning to return on January 21, 1995, the same day that Ramzi Yousef planned to bomb almost a dozen U.S.-bound airliners simultaneously over the Pacific Ocean and possibly crash a hijacked airplane into the Pentagon or CIA headquarters. ....
That kind of suggests he was among the targets, not among the plotters...
Nichols was carrying stun guns on his person when he flew out of the U.S. When he flew back to the U.S., he was on a Northwest Airlines route out of Manilla that terminated in Los Angeles, matching one of the flights targeted by Yousef.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
02/21/2004 9:47:06 AM ||
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A brotherhood of California police is sending tons of surplus equipment today to their undermanned and poorly equipped Iraqi brethren in a goodwill gesture all hope will snowball into something historic. Fresno homicide Detective Mike Harris, 51, who came up with the idea in December, said he believes the sooner Iraqi police are trained and equipped, the quicker U.S. combat troops can come home. "Operation Brotherhood of the Badge" is sending the first shipment of equipment with a planeload of Marines later today from March Air Reserve Base. Later shipments will be sent overseas from Lemoore Naval Air Station in the Central Valley. Five Central Valley law enforcement officers and military veterans are accompanying Marines and will personally deliver the gear to the Iraqi police force.
Harris, a 30-year officer and military veteran, said he wanted to help overwhelmed Iraqi police and decided to enlist the 58,000-member California Peace Officers Research Association for which he serves as Central Valley president. He lined up fellow Fresno Officer Brian Burry, who is a California Army National Guardsman, and Madera police Officer Chuck Smith, a retired Air Force master sergeant, to work within the tight police fraternity where thousands of cops have been called to active duty in Iraq. First they passed the hat and sent $500 to help an Iraqi police officer wounded in a terrorist attack, and then they passed the word among all state police agencies about donating any surplus equipment.
The campaign helps local police get rid of equipment that becomes costly to store and dispose of, Harris said. "You canât sell it because it could get into the hands of bad guys. So you have to pay to destroy it and bury it at a landfill," he said. The equipment - mostly radios and batteries, bulletproof vests, belts and holsters, - has a limited shelf life and then is rotated with new equipment, Harris said. No weapons or tear gas will be sent overseas. But riot gear and helmets will be provided. The campaign, which Harris said has caught the eye of the White House, is first targeting the 480-person police force of Baqubah, 40 miles north of Baghdad, where U.S. troops and Iraqi civilians have been ambushed. They will get 300 vests, 150 portable radios and batteries, 1,000 pieces of leather equipment, such as holsters and belts, plus 300 police helmets and 200 pieces of riot gear. "These are just cops whoâve now become the focal point for the terrorists," said Burry, a Guard staff sergeant. Harris called the insurgents "thugs and criminals" who can be defeated with an organized Iraqi police force. The Guardâs 649th Military Police Battalion will be helping the five California men distribute the gear in Baqubah. "We have a chance to see a democratic society emerge in the Middle East," he said. "Some 200 years ago the same thing was happening in this country. And it was quite violent then, too." Smith believes California police officers can save Iraqi police lives. "Everybody weâve spoken to has bought into this campaign. We can make history here."
Posted by: Dar ||
02/21/2004 9:35:32 AM ||
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Good for them! Let's hope other police departments from around the country will do the same.
Guess it's too much to hope the police departments in other countries will help their Iraqi brothers as well.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
02/21/2004 10:37 Comments ||
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Excellent idea. I wonder if the Hollywood left has problem with that too. Speaking of the hollywood traitors don't forget to watch the Oscar's. All your Favorites will be there. Tim Robbins his big mouthed wife Sarandon and of course their leader Michael moore. What a disgusting site and an affront to America they are. I love ranting.,
Posted in entirety...Not much detail yet.
Officials from the International Committee of the Red Cross Thingy visited former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein on Saturday, an ICRC spokeswoman said. "The visit took place this morning Baghdad time," Antonella Notari told Reuters in Geneva. She said the visit took place in Iraq but she did not disclose exactly where, under agreement with U.S. forces holding Saddam since his capture in December.
Posted by: Dar ||
02/21/2004 9:27:31 AM ||
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Two thought (at least two that aren't nasty):
1. Why wasn't the ICRC as vocal and pushy about visiting Saddam's prisoners (especially the ones destined to be fed feet-first into industrial shredders)?
Never mind, I know the answer.
2. I hope the Americans moved Saddam to a temporary location before the ICRC was allowed to visit (but let the ICRC think it's the permanent location). Their "agreement" not to disclose the location where they met Saddam isn't worth the paper it isn't written on.
I'd bet a decent sum of money there's an attack soon against the location where the ICRC saw Saddam.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
02/21/2004 10:45 Comments ||
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And if they attack that location, the security there will mow them down like grass. You think we're gaurding Saddam with Iraqi Police? Tanks and Blackhawks over Turbans.
Posted by: Charles ||
02/21/2004 13:31 Comments ||
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This is a good story for a Saturday. You canât make this stuff up. Let the jokes begin. Hezbollah claims that Israel made a mistake during the recent prisoner exchange and sent them the body of a Jew instead of that of Lebanese drug dealer Muhamed Biro who died in an Israeli prison when he was 70 years old. The report was published in the Nazareth-based Arabic newspaper, Kul Al-Arab. The defense establishment has not denied the report. An IDF spokesman told Maariv Online, âthe IDF will do what is necessary to fulfill its obligations under the terms of the prisoner exchange agreementâ.
The paper reports that when Biroâs family received the body, they discovered that it was actually a âreligious Jew with a beardâ, in their words. They hastily reported the mistake to Hezbollah officials. At first Israel denied it but later admitted that there had been an error and Biroâs body was still in Israel. Hezbollah is now demanding 30 additional bodies in return for the Jewish body that it received and has asked for the intervention of the German mediator. They claim that the bodies are buried in Kibbutz Repidim in southern Israel. Kul Al-Arab charges Israel with delaying correction of the mistake in order to use it as additional bargaining point in the next stage of negotiations. However, the IDF spokesperson said that Israel has not received any demands from Hezbollah in this regard.
The police says that there is no confirmation of the claim that the body transferred to Lebanon really belongs to a Jewish man. They claim that it is an unidentified body that remained unclaimed for more than one year. The added that it is the responsibility of the Abu Kabir Forensic Institute to identify bodies. Institute Head, Dr. Yehuda Hiss, responded that the Institute was not asked to identify the bodies that were sent to the Hezbollah.
"Whuddya mean, 'identify the bodies'? I thought you identified the bodies?"
Biro was buried in Kibbutz Revadim in a section reserved for non-Jews and people whose Jewishness is in doubt. Graves there are not marked with names, only with numbers on a post. One possibility is that the error was caused by the rain and stormy weather which might have moved one of the markers from its place. I bet most units of the IDF/IAF would be happy to give Hezbollah 30 more bodies. :o)
Posted by: badanov ||
02/21/2004 8:14:22 AM ||
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when I read the title - I was thinking exactly the same....
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/21/2004 8:51 Comments ||
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It is good that Hizb'allah is checking the goods against the packing lists. I will say that for them.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
02/21/2004 12:31 Comments ||
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It is good that Hizb'allah is checking the goods against the packing lists
Heh
Another Abu Doe?
Reports from the Poonch district of Jammu and Kashmir have indicated that the security forces shot dead seven terrorists, including a âdistrict commanderâ, of the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) outfit during an encounter at Andrawali dhok under the jurisdiction of Mandi police station on February 20. At least three terrorists are reported to have escaped from the incident site. According to official sources, three cadres of the Al Badr Mujahideen were killed in an encounter with the security forces at Hassanpora village in the Anantnag district. A spokesperson of the Al Badr told the local news agency CNS over telephone that the outfitâs âdistrict commanderâ for Anantnag, identified as Ashfaq Rehmani, was killed in the incident. Meanwhile, the charred dead body of a civilian was recovered from Kokernag in the Anantnag district. According to sources, he had been abducted by unidentified terrorists from his residence two days ago and subsequently burnt to death. Separately, terrorists shot dead a civilian and injured another in the Handwara area of Kupwara district.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
02/21/2004 5:33:32 AM ||
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An international body that monitors displaced people says about 100,000 Arabs have been forced from their homes by returning Kurds in northern Iraq. The Global IDP Project estimates that about 30,000 Kurds who were evicted under Saddam Hussein have gone back to their home towns and villages. .... The report says political tensions are particularly high in the oil-rich area round Kirkuk. Arab and Turkmen residents are afraid the Kurdish authorities are trying to lure more Kurds to resettle there, so that the non-Kurdish population will be outnumbered in any future referendum on the status of the city.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
02/21/2004 5:13:32 AM ||
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Note the accurate use of the word 'resettle'. These were people who were driven out of their homes and only the survivors for that matter.
#2
Yep, Rantburg has been following this. I have a little sympathy for the people Saddam trucked in to occupy the place -- most of them were ordinary folks who got an offer they couldn't refuse in Saddam's Iraq. But you're right, the Kurds have to be allowed to re-settle.
Posted by: Steve White ||
02/21/2004 12:56 Comments ||
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In Saudi Arabia the Sunni Arabs have displaced the Shias from the oil regions. In Algeria the Sunni Arabs have taken control of the oil regions owned by the Berber. In Sudan the Sunni Arabs have displaced the Blacks from the oil regions. In Iraq the Sunni Arabs have displaced the Kurds from the oil regions.
Police in Pakistanâs remote Northern Areas said on Friday that a ninth school in five days had been attacked and destroyed. Local officials have blamed hardline Islamists opposed to female education. Eight of the schools were for girls, although the latest - burned down in a village near the town of Chilas on Thursday - was a boysâ school. Three people have been arrested, taking the total detained over the spate of attacks to 20. The schools attacked were mostly set up by non-governmental organisations with foreign assistance. ....
The guys who run the local madrassas don't want the competition...
Thursday nightâs attack was on a two-room community school in a remote village called Akhrot, near Chilas, 120km south of the regional capital of Gilgit. Police said unidentified people torched the school, destroying the furniture and wooden parts of the building. No one was injured. On 15 February seven girlsâ schools under the governmentâs Social Action Programme were destroyed in the Daarayle Valley. On 19 February a primary school in Chilas was dynamited. Some local officials blame people opposed to the education of girls. However, others believe the latest incident shows a more general targeting of international aid agencies by people who regard the construction of community schools with their funding as un-Islamic.
Only madrassas will do...
Last year attacks at the offices of the International Fund for Agriculture Development (Ifad) and the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) in Chilas caused severe damage. .... A senior government official in Gilgit told the Reuters news agency: "We have about 100 community schools and the attacks have not stopped girls from going to them." The Northern Areas have a population of around 1.5 million. The literacy rate is among the lowest in the country at 12% but efforts by aid agencies to raise it have been met with suspicion by some hardline Islamists.
... who prefer to keep them illiterate and docile.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
02/21/2004 5:08:06 AM ||
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a trade: A burned-out mosque for every burned-out school?
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/21/2004 9:35 Comments ||
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oh how strong thy allah is when he can destroy girls schools
Posted by: Dan ||
02/21/2004 10:09 Comments ||
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Arm the people - not just the thugs - and let them start guarding the schools. Maybe the Islamists won't like being shot. They're bullies and cowards, and bullies and cowards don't like it turned back on themselves.
Firepower to the people!
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
02/21/2004 10:51 Comments ||
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a trade: A burned-out mosque for every burned-out school?
Only if the Imam or Mullah that preaches in that mosque is inside at the time. They're not the ones doing the burning, they're just the ones saying it "must be done". Consequences for behavior, cause and effect, and all that...
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
02/21/2004 11:59 Comments ||
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What a pathetic group. I feel absolutely no guilt in killing them all.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
02/21/2004 5:00:52 AM ||
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Pulling out all the stops - at least the ones they could dream up once they realized how precarious their position actually is after their various recent shenanigans to stifle dissent. Those not under their thumb - and they have found some effective methods to put some helpless people in that position - obviously stayed home.
Only the Black Hats would be so naive and unsophisticated as to believe anyone will buy this sham.
From Jihad Unspun
The Baghdad correspondent for the Jordanian daily al-âArab al-Yawm, Ahmad Sabri, reports that Arab public opinion is following with great concern the rapidly growing Iranian presence in Iraq. Iranians are present in Iraq on the grounds that they are making pilgrimage to Shiâi holy sites such as an-Najaf and Karbalaâ but religion is frequently a pretext for the smuggling of drugs into Iraqi territory and the smuggling of Iraqi resources, antiquities, manuscripts, and even foodstuffs into Iran. Sabri writes that observers of the situation in Karbalaâ, an-Najaf, al-Kazimiyah, and Samarraâ, as well as Iraqi cities near the Iranian frontier are reporting that Iranian government agencies are working systematically and now have a widely established presence in the centers of these cities where they exploit the absence of local security and order.
According to Iraqi newspaper reports, tens of thousands of Iranians cross the border into Iraq every day, ostensibly to visit Shiâi holy sites. But those who closely follow this development regard this highly significant scale of Iranian influx â said to total 2 million Iranians in all â as being of potentially serious danger to the security and welfare of Iraq as a result of the chaotic and unsupervised situation that prevails at the border crossings between the two countries. The Shiâi holy cities have taken on the appearance of Iranian cities, Sabri writes, making it difficult even to find Arabic speakers there. The Iraqi press published a feature story on the Iranian presence in Iraq that reported that the Iranian flag now flies in the courtyard that lies between the tomb of the Shiâi Imam al-Husayn and that of his brother al-âAbbas in Karbalaâ.
Nor is the matter limited to such symbolic manifestations. The Iranian secret police have become highly active in Iraqi cities, recruiting Iraqis by enticement or threat, and distributing pamphlets and books that promote Iranâs political experience, according to the police chief in al-Basrah, who reported that his policemen had monitored this Iranian activity and arrested a number of agents. Eye witnesses from Karbalaâ and an-Najaf report that the cities are being swept by a wave of unprecedented inflation in the price of land and rental rates for apartments and shops. Prices for food are also on the rise because of the huge influx of Iranians into the two cities where they buy and smuggle locally available goods. The Iraqi press reports that the Iranian secret services are pouring millions of dollars into Iraq and stockpiling large quantities of weapons in specifically designated secret locations in the southern part of the country. The Baghdad papers warn of the danger that hundreds of explosive devices can be imported long-distance from Iran and that they are in fact already in the possession of arms merchants, criminal gangs, and thieves.
I think bringing explosives to Iraq is like bringing coal to Newcastle. It's no surprise that there would be an upsurge in pilgrims and such to the holy sites — they're Shiism's holiest cities and they're not that difficult a trip. Nor is access controlled, like the Soddies do with Mecca. Qom is a religious backwater, compared to Karbala. That being a given, it also makes sense that the Iranian secret police try to exploit the large numbers of Iranian warm bodies in the bosom of the Great Satan, and it makes sense that a proportion of those making the "pilgrimage" would be social undesirables. The cops seem to be aware of the problem, and I assume they're taking steps to deal with it. The more interesting aspect is that the story pushes Zarqawi's Sunni-Shia split.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
02/21/2004 4:49:27 AM ||
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I mean to put this in the Iraq section.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
02/21/2004 8:47 Comments ||
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Having pretty much zero faith at this point in the administration's strategic calculations, I just hope that they've wargamed a Shi'ite insurrection backed up with an Iranian military intervention.
#3
Hiryu - i wouldn't count out it yet. let the election process get over with then by the end of next we just might be in control of these iranian govt institutions. or at the very least the mullas collective asses will be burned.
Posted by: Dan ||
02/21/2004 10:03 Comments ||
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I find these 2 timelines of extreme interest:
1) US General Election in November
2) Feverish efforts by Black Hats to acquire a nuke pkg they can tip one of their "upgraded" missiles with
Anyone taking bets on which occurs first?
I'm not as worried about the Mad Mullahs' attempt to mfg weapons-grade fissile material themselves (I don't think they can manage it in the available timeframe) as I am with the possibility that they'll find someone to sell them a finished product. In spite of the dearth of comments about it, I have a clear recollection of previous events:
1) Rafsanjani's multiple declarations that Iran would nuke Israel the minute they acquired a deliverable warhead
2) the Missile Parade - complete with "nose art" of their intentded use
I hope we are doing everything possible to make sure they don't get a finished warhead. I have little doubt that, if re-elected, Dubya will handle the home-brew threat. Unfortunately I have to assume we have some notion of their progress - though intel failures have been shown to be significant lately. Tenet has had a number of serious failures on his watch at CIA... We are talking about people who dream of nuking Israel out of existence and are insane enough to follow through, per Rafsanjani's statements.
Sen. Tom Daschle, D-S.D., on Thursday praised the Bush administrationâs war and nation-building work in Iraq and said he has no serious concerns about the lack of weapons of mass destruction. Daschle told state chamber of commerce representatives meeting in the South Dakota capital that he is satisfied with the way things are going in Iraq. "I give the effort overall real credit," Daschle said. "It is a good thing Saddam Hussein is no longer in power. It is a good thing we are democratizing the country."
#6
This isn't going to save Daschle. He led the column of Democrats into the battlefield and he's now the first one trying to crawl away wounded.
Posted by: Charles ||
02/21/2004 13:28 Comments ||
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Between the weasel-wording, the anti-military behavior, and the unprecedented attack on Bush's judicial appointments, any Democrat is vulnerable to defeat. Dasshole should be the first to go.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
02/21/2004 23:00 Comments ||
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Ignatius column...hereâs what we didnât know:
I add the caveat "if authentic" because the Zarqawi document is almost too good to be true. Even top Pentagon officials say they were initially skeptical that someone linked to al Qaeda would reveal so much about strategy in a letter to colleagues. But after checking, they have concluded that the letter -- found on a compact disc carried by an al Qaeda courier who was captured in a Baghdad raid in January -- is real.
Posted by: Pete Stanley ||
02/21/2004 3:23:44 AM ||
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So the story about Ghil being captured by peshmerga near the Iranian border was false, then?
Okay ...
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/21/2004 11:27 Comments ||
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The World Health Organization will launch a massive immunization campaign Monday targeting 63 million children in 10 African countries as a polio outbreak spreads from heavily Muslim northern Nigeria. My vaccination plan:
1. Buy vaccine.
2. Buy refrigeration equipment.
3. Lease airplanes to haul vaccine to Africa.
4. Train nurses and health workers to give vaccine.
5. Round up tykes.
6. Shoot any mullah who interferes in any way.
7. Give vaccine.
That doesnât seem hard to me but Iâm jesâ a simple country doctor.
Islamic leaders in the heart of the Nigerian outbreak say they will uphold their ban on the polio vaccine, calling it part of a U.S. plot to spread infertility or AIDS among Muslims. Okay, okay, move point #6 to point #1.
Health workers say the 5-month-old ban has spread the crippling disease back into seven African countries where it had been eradicated, and threatens a 16-year effort - the worldâs single-largest public health project - to eliminate the disease worldwide. Wonder if I could file a complaint with the International Criminal Court to charge the asshat mullahs with complicit homicide?
Mondayâs campaign launch will send hundreds of thousands of volunteers house to house to administer the oral vaccine, from arid Niger on the edge of the Sahara to the savannas of central Africaâs Congo. "Africa has had a tremendous success story" in eliminating polio, WHO spokeswoman Melissa Corkum said in Geneva. "It would be a shame if we let that slip." Iâm happy to help, Melissa. See my plan.
The global eradication campaign has reduced its range to six nations, including Nigeria, Niger and Egypt in Africa. Fewer than 800 cases were reported last year worldwide. U.N. workers blame a third of cases on the vaccine ban in northern Nigeria. Targeted countries for the immunization campaign include Nigeria, where the northern state of Kano is one of the largest remaining reservoirs of the polio virus in Africa. Islamic leaders in Kano and two other northern states say the international polio campaign is a U.S. plot to kill Nigeriaâs Muslims by spreading the AIDS virus or agents that cause sterility. "Itâs a Zionist plot! Weâre perfectly capable of killing our children without dem infidels gettinâ in the way!"
Kano state officials claim their own lab tests have found vaccine estrogen and other female hormones in the vaccine. Hoping to prove the vaccineâs safety, Nigeria on Sunday dispatched a 12-member team of scientists, government officials and Muslims leaders to labs in South Africa, Indonesia and India to witness tests. The fact-finding team was due back late Thursday. Notice that the Muslim leaders were a separate bunch from the team of scientists.
Influential northern Islamic leaders have rejected the missionâs findings in advance. "Weâll not accept whatever result they bring back because the federal government is not sincere," Nasiu Baba Ahmed, secretary-general of the Supreme Council for the Implementation of Sharia in Nigeria, told The Associated Press. "And who knows sincerity better than us?"
"They went and hired some traditional rulers as members of the team. Are those traditional rulers scientists? How could they determine whether or not the vaccine is contaminated when they have no knowledge of science?" Ahmed asked. "That is why we cannot accept whatever result they bring back from that that trip." Ahmed, see point #6 above. Man, this upsets me.
We might as well send dentists to administer the vaccines, since this is so much like pulling teeth...
Posted by: Steve White ||
02/21/2004 12:49:16 AM ||
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Ignorance is the greater violater of human rights in the history of mankind. And, unfortunately, for these people they were born into a religion led by the most abusive, ignorant idiots ever to don a piece of cloth.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
02/21/2004 8:55 Comments ||
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Hey, hop into your time-travel phonebooth and visit the 7th century Northern Nigeria.
Backward, barbaric, brutal, peverse, twisted... sheesh, how did that go, again? So many applicable negative adjectives screaming for attention, my head swims...
Five Russian soldiers were killed and another 14 wounded in the latest attacks in Russiaâs breakaway region of Chechnya. One of the Russian serviceman died and another eight were injured as federal outposts came under fire 16 times in the past 24 hours, an official in the Kremlin-backed Chechen administration said on Friday. An armoured personnel carrier blew up on a land mine, killing two servicemen and wounding two. Another military vehicle exploded on a land mine in the Chechen capital of Grozny on Thursday night, leaving one soldier dead and four more wounded. Another soldier died after carelessly handling his gun.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/21/2004 12:39:30 AM ||
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after carelessly handling his gun.
I can just see every Marine cringe as they read this, then burst out laughing. You either have to be a Marine, or have been closely associated with them, to understand the double entendre in that last sentence.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
02/21/2004 11:49 Comments ||
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"This is my rifle; this is my gun. This one's for fighting, this one's for fun."
Me mum taught me that one, she did! (Mom was a Marine for more years than either she OR I cared to remember. Heh)
Ed.
Posted by: Ed Becerra ||
02/21/2004 14:22 Comments ||
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Things to be thankful for:
Dad was the Marine.
I'm sorry. Ed the idea of a BAM as Mom scares the beJesus outa me. LOL!
Day 30: Introduction to high speed crawling.
Day 31: The limits of screaming.
Day 32: Sleep and how to maintain it.
Day 33: 6 hours sleep test.
#7
Think of it as being much the same sort of work: judicial use of authority and discipline to mold impressionable young minds, and better fit them for adult responsibilities.
#8
Thank you, Sgt. Mom. For what it's worth, I'm the same Ed Becerra that posted to your thread about that idiot Quaker/deserter a while back.
And yeah, having a Mom who made E-4 and was going for E-5 (I'm afraid my unexpected arrival *grin* got in the way of her promotion.. heh.) was very educational for me.
You have NO idea how her face BEAMED when I was called to the front of the formation and my CO pinned the three stripes on my collar. One of the defining moments of my life.
Ed Becerra
Posted by: Ed Becerra ||
02/21/2004 18:21 Comments ||
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EFL
I went in and was ushered into a room where my friend was sitting with a senior leader of the Jamaat ud-Dawa (a reincarnation of the dreaded Lashkar-e-Taiba). For the next two and half hours we had a long (and very civil) conversation in Punjabi, during the course of which we discussed and argued over the present state of jihad and its future, the JuDâs perspective on Indo-Pak relations, and about the organisation itself. The conversation started with the JuD leader saying that he believes that 9/11 was a disaster for the jihad. He was candid enough to say he will never admit this in public but his own feeling is that jihad suffered a great setback after 9/11.
You know losing Afghanistan, the Islamist Promised Land, with all its explosives, must have hurt...
He said that there is great pressure on them from the regime to stop their jihadi operations and that a close watch is being kept on them. When I asked why JuD had not been banned along with the reincarnated Jaish-e-Mohammed, Harkatul Mujahedin and other extremist organisations, he said that after the attack on the Indian parliament, the Lashkar leadership had decided to bifurcate their activities inside Pakistan from their jihadi activities inside Kashmir. He said that in December 2001, the Jamaat ud-Dawa had been formed and that the Lashkar-e-Taiba had nothing to do with the JuD anymore and that it was a completely separate organisation.
And my left arm is a completely separate appendage of my body...
As to the provocative speeches being made by the JuD chief, Hafiz Saeed, I was told that all he is doing is making speeches and thatâs not a crime (which it is if the Pakistan government was to apply the law). He said that after the formation of the JuD, the leadership had lost control over the operations of the LeT, and while they still had contacts with the organisation, they no longer exercised any control over its operations.
Kind of like Pakland with the jihadi movement itself, huh?
Pakistani journalists covering the jihad beat however debunk any distinction sought to be drawn between JuD and LeT. They said that they are still one and the same. They pointed out to the JuD annual congregation at Pattoki and said that the fiction of JuD and LeT being separate organisation became clear at this congregation where the entire security was provided by the LeT cadres. JuD offices still double up as offices of the LeT inside Pakistan and recruits for the LeT are still being recruited by the JuD.
My heart! The surprise... [thud]
The conversation then turned to how the JuD viewed the thaw in relations between India and Pakistan. The JuD leader was not very optimistic about the future of the peace process. Of course, if the peace process did succeed then the JuD would not stand in the way of its success. But he added that the solution to Kashmir that India sought would ensure that the stalemate continued because even if Pakistan accepted the Indian solution the Kashmiris would not, and they would continue their struggle against âIndian occupationâ. He appeared to be on the defensive when confronted with the negligible Kashmiri presence in the violence in J&K. He first tried to put a Kashmiri face to the jihad but then admitted that most of the jihadis are Pakistani. But he said that in recent months a large number of Kashmiri youth are joining the jihadi ranks.
"Yeah! We got 'em lined up for miles, just waitin' to sign up! Really!"
He repeated the rhetoric about Muslims coming to aid of âoppressedâ fellow Muslims. But when asked why people like him never thought of the 140 million Indian Muslims and only of the 4 million Kashmiri Muslims, he once again appeared to be caught in a dilemma. Perhaps he was wanted to say that his organisation is actually involved in arming and training the other Indian Muslims, but this then would have amounted to mea culpa that neither he nor his country could afford. He took great pains to convince me that his organisation isnât against peace and the last thing they want is for the subcontinent to undergo yet another 1947 type holocaust. I then asked him to list a few steps that he feels the Indian government needs to take to convince the Pakistanis about its seriousness in seeking a peaceful solution to Kashmir. For a few minutes he was caught speechless. He then kept fumbling for words and tried to sidestep the question. It was almost as if they had never even thought about searching for a non-jihadi solution to Kashmir.
Hafiz Saeed denies that there is one...
The meeting with the JuD leader led me to four conclusions.
First, I got a feeling that the meeting took place because the JuD wanted to convey a message of being an organisation of reasonable people and not the mindless fanatics they actually are they are often made out to be. There was a visible softening in the stand of the JuD, something which was simply not there when I met the Lashkar chief, Hafiz Saeed some three years back.
Second, the meeting probably took place with the concurrence of the JuDâs handlers. But if this is the case then it probably means that the JuD has been kept in reserve to raise the jihadi temperature if the Pakistani establishment feels that the peace process with India is not going in the desired direction. The implication of this is that the Pakistani establishment is still playing a double game as far as jihad is concerned and hasnât forsaken jihad as an instrument of state policy.
Third, the jihadis are unable and perhaps incapable of imagining a world without jihad. For them jihad is an article of faith without which they would lose their sole purpose of existence.
And finally, the JuD is the one jihadi organisation that for now at least remains under the complete control of the Pakistani establishment and either for reasons of short-term expediency or as part of a long-term strategy is not willing to confront the establishment just yet. The question is for how long the JuD will continue to take directions from the Pakistani establishment.
Here one thing that the JuD leader said keeps ringing in my ears. Sounding an ominous warning for the Pakistani regime, he said that there is only so much humiliation and pressure that a man or a people can take. Once the pressure become unbearable and humiliation crosses the limit, there is bound to be retaliation.
Ahah! The old Humiliation™-Dire Revenge™ cycle...
I think the writer might be correct, though. Based on the evidence, JuD-LeT is the only jihadi organization Perv's not cracking down on, at least on paper. That implies it's the only one that actually remains under ISI control. That's always assuming the crackdown is for real, of course. But given LeT's involvement with al-Qaeda and its worldwide scope it also opens up some new areas of investigation. It makes us wonder just how involved with Qaeda the ISI remains, and what kinds of plans for world domination are on the boil in its sanctum sanctorum.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
02/21/2004 12:37:40 AM ||
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A videotape set to music of Norwegian peacekeepers in Kosovo shooting dogs drew furious reactions in their homeland Friday. The footage, called "Hotdog," aired on national TV on Thursday night and was edited to look and sound like a music video. "Snoop Doggy Dog Does Oslo"!
During the video, a soldier is shown shooting a dog at long range with a rifle, and another Norwegian peacekeeper appeared to empty his pistol into it at close range as the animal writhed in agony. It also shows a dog on a leash being shot. "We see this as very serious and want to get to the bottom of it," said Cmdr. Thom Knustad, spokesman for the Norwegian militaryâs operational command. Norway has been a major contributor to many international peacekeeping operations, and prefers to see its soldiers as humane and effective. Outrage over the video has been so intense that the leader of the Parliamentâs defense committee, Marit Nybakk, said she would demand an explanation from Defense Minister Kristin Krohn Devold. The video was circulated among Norwegian Kosovo veterans and others by e-mail, and was posted on the Internet by Norwayâs largest newspaper, Verdens Gang. The video was e-mailed to Norwegian media outlets, including Verdens Gang. As George Kennedy said in The Naked Gun, "A guy makes a little mistake and the media blow it all out of proportion!"
The newspaper said the video was believed to have been recorded in March 2002 by peacekeepers from the elite Telemark Battalion, which has since returned to Norway. Verdens Gang said it had identified and spoken to some of those shown in the video, but did not report their names. Saving that for the Sunday tabloid?
One of them told the Oslo tabloid that scenes from various events had been pieced together to give a misleading picture. For example, laughter on the soundtrack was from soldiers trying off-road vehicles, he said. Verdens Gang also said soldiers were believed to have wounded an elderly Kosovo Albanian man in the hand while shooting at dogs and then paid him to remain silent. The military was expected to establish a commission to investigate whether those involved could face military or civilian charges. Peacekeeping, like democracy, like making sausage.
Posted by: Steve White ||
02/21/2004 12:32:46 AM ||
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#3
Contrast this with the pictures of the US soldier in Iraq rescuing a dog from the river. (Other Rantburgers might remember the large collection of photos from Iraq, the link to which was posted here. For the life of me I can't remember the source right now)
Posted by: Rafael ||
02/21/2004 7:32 Comments ||
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Norwegian soldiers have shot dogs, raped women, cut off heads, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside!!
#5
But, you should see the out-takes. I especially like the one where they frisk the dogs first. If PETA had seen that first none of this would have happened.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
02/21/2004 8:47 Comments ||
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"they frisk the dogs first"
Lol, Jack! Must've found something...
The eventual explanation should be interesting. Everyone has their own sense of right and wrong - and JfK's point to keep things in perspective (I assume it is that this isn't a African genocide situation, so take a chill pill - or similar) is well taken, generally speaking. But I happen to differ somewhat about taking life without reason... Humans have all sorts of insane / perverse ideas and, often, they just can't be brought back from the brink -- and you have to treat them as enemies in a kill or be killed self-defense response. But animals? Domestic dogs? Unless these were dangerous feral canines that had reverted to hunting children in packs, then this was pointless casual killing.
[rant]
Personally, if I were King of the World, I'd prolly shoot the Norgs who did this if the dogs weren't proved to be rabid. And I'd apply the same cure to anyone else acting in the same manner.
Casual killing is stupid, cowardly, and depraved behavior. I was raised with guns / hunting and the frontiersman's rule always applied: If you're not gonna eat it or wear it you don't kill it, except in self-defense. And today these make little sense if I'm not caught in a blizzard above the Arctic Circle or similar - and that means I'm a lousy planner and dipshit adventurer that should've stayed home. Screw these gutless turds to the wall.
Don't get me wrong -- PETA? Fuck 'em, they're not heroes -- they're looney-toons in search of a reason for living. BTW, you haven't found it yet, keep looking - 'tards. Move along. Move along.
[/rant]
:-)
#7
And today these make little sense if I'm not caught in a blizzard above the Arctic Circle or similar
I'd like to agree with ya .com except for these damn dogs I got. They live for it. I lied I don't agree with ya. Killing bird's is what I was put on earth to do! :> I will admit this this won't do me a damn bit of good above the artic circle.
#8
Shipman, there are lots of geese and ducks above the artic circle in summer. Many moult at this time so its not necessary to shoot them. You can paddle up to them and club them to death.
#9
Many moult at this time so its not necessary to shoot them.
Dang! I like that. How far is this Artic Circle from Tallahassee?
And: Do liberals moult?
#10
Do liberals moult?
Ship - I try never to get close enough to find out. Upon reflection, I'd assume that, if they did anything at all, it would be to shed their outer epidermis, like every other snake.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
02/21/2004 22:49 Comments ||
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#11
Sorry OP epidermis is still intact
Posted by: NotMike Moore ||
02/22/2004 3:01 Comments ||
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Canadian troops have captured a man they suspect laid the mines that killed two of their comrades in Afghanistan on Oct. 2, The Canadian Press has learned. The arrest took place during raids Jan. 26 on two compounds near the main Canadian military base in Kabul. Less than 24 hours later, a suicide bomber killed another Canadian soldier, but military officials say the events are not linked.
Well... They're loosely linked, anyway.
The soldiers seized "a large quantity" of ordnance and explosives, including landmines, said military sources. Several terrorist suspects were captured in the sweep, called Operation Whirlwind. Sources pointed to the seized materials and their proximity to the mine strike as partial evidence of complicity â along with hard-won intelligence. One military source said the operation targeted a mine strike suspect and it nabbed the man it was aiming to get. "They think theyâve got the guy," he said.
He's now claiming it wasn't him, of course, he just wandered into town to look for a job, just loves Canucks and never owned a gun. The explosives aren't his, somebody left 'em there...
The suspect is believed to be a member of Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin, or HIG, described by Canadian officers as the third-largest terrorist organization in Afghanistan, after al-Qaeda and the Taliban. In a statement from Kabul, Canadian Capt. Bernard Dionne of the Kabul Multi-National Brigade said that for reasons of operational security, officials "will not provide detailed information about these operations. And for their own safety, KMNB will not identify or provide details regarding individuals who are, or might be arrested during these operations â including details about their detention... We donât do the strike unless weâve done (our homework)."
It's good to see they've got an intel organization running...
Machine guns, anti-tank weapons and rocket-propelled grenades were also seized in the raids, which were led by Kabul city police and Afghan National Directorate of Security personnel. Senior sources said the operation went off without a hitch; no shots were fired and no one was injured.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/21/2004 12:25:56 AM ||
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#1
must be a good feeling to capture these fuckers
#2
Those uneducated Talibanis never learned about the Royal Canadian Mountain Police and so didn't know that the Canadians will "always get their man."
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
02/21/2004 8:45 Comments ||
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A new videotape has surfaced on the Internet from a radical Islamic group claiming to be directly tied to Al Qaeda in Iraq. The tape, a chilling recruiting tool set to music, is seen as a call to terrorism by security experts. U.S. intelligence officials believe the tape to be legitimate. The video shows roadside bombings of coalition convoys, as well as testimonials from homicide bombers pledging to kill U.S. and coalition troops until they leave Iraq. U.S. intelligence officials said the video came from an unofficial Web site of Ansar Al-Sunnah, a group with ties to Al Qaeda.
Starting to look like they're retiring the Ansar al-Islam brand. I wonder if the warranties are still good?
On the tape, a terror squad is using weapons, including what appear to be surface-to-air missiles. Other portions of the tape include: explosions; identifications and credit cards of soldiers; and bodies of others who have been killed; a mass grave. Terrorists are heard saying, "We will expel them. With our bombs we will scare them. And we will continue to battle against their fortifications and will erase the shame in our nation."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/21/2004 12:21:39 AM ||
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#1
The video shows ... testimonials from homicide bombers pledging to kill U.S. and coalition troops ...
Video capture technology and ink-jet printers are so cheap these days, why I'll bet you could get every US and coalition soldier in Iraq a copy of each of these mutts mugs. I'll bet you could.
Posted by: Steve White ||
02/21/2004 0:36 Comments ||
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The video shows roadside bombings of coalition convoys
Um, tell me again how this is not the same tactic used in Chechnya. Maybe 'video camera' should be an item on the search-and-confiscate list. You could quickly learn who the sympathizers are.
"Yes we would like to watch your family videos. All of them. Oh c'mon, don't be shy."
Posted by: Rafael ||
02/21/2004 8:02 Comments ||
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#5
I'll repeat something I said a few months ago:
Put controls on the cell phone system. If your cell ID isn't in the database, the call doesn't go through. Does anyone here doubt that, without cell phones, these shitheads would be seriously hamstrung? I believe it would definitely reduce their effectiveness in all stages of the process.
The remnants of the Taliban, forced out of power in Afghanistan in 2001, will stage a new wave of attacks against US-led coalition forces in the south and southeast of the country this spring, a man claiming to represent the fundamentalist militia told AFP on Friday. In an interview in the south-eastern city of Khost, the man, who has previously proved himself a credible source of information on the intentions of the militant group, also claimed that Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden and the Taliban leader, Mullah Omar, were both alive and in Afghanistan. Bin Laden and his deputy, Ayman Al-Zawahiri âare alive and both are in Afghanistan, in different placesâ, Mohammed Saiful Adel told an AFP journalist in an interview in the city of Khost, close to the border with Pakistan.
If AFP can find those guys, why can't we? Perhaps we should have our intel track reporters?
A former leader of the anti-Soviet Mujahaddin fighters, Jalaluddin Haqqani, âhas taken on the role of deputy leader of the Taliban,â the Taliban spokesman said. âHe is playing a key role in our movement and is responsible for all the military operations,â he added. âHaqqani is personally leading the operations in Paktia, Paktika and Khost,â said the spokesman, referring to three southeastern provinces. More than 100 armed Taliban have gathered in a remote mountainous region in southern Afghanistan, officials said Friday, sparking fears of an imminent attack in the area. The remnants of the ousted Taliban regime have gathered in Zabul province, in southeastern Afghanistan, local official Hajji Hashim said. In recent months south and southeastern Afghanistan have witnessed attacks against US-led coalition and Afghan forces in the area as well as violence against aid workers and civilians.
âOn Thursday more than a 100 armed Taliban from Arghandab, Khak Afghan and Dai Chopan gathered in the mountains of Mazin,â Hashim, the townâs deputy governor, told AFP on Friday. Hashim said he went to the governor of Zabul province in the capital Qalat to discuss the situation but was told, âthereâs no big threatâ. However, there are only 70 or 80 troops guarding Mazin, making the town outnumbered by Taliban forces should they attack. âIf the Taliban attack us we can defend ourselves and call headquarters for support but we are not capable of attacking the Taliban,â Hashim said. The men responsible for the gathering are believed to be Mullah Qahar and Mullah Ghafar, well-known Taliban commanders in the region.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/21/2004 12:18:55 AM ||
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#1
Wait one. I thought we were going to launch a spring offensive. What gives?
Posted by: Ben ||
02/21/2004 9:38 Comments ||
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Ben -
Absolutely.
TALIBAN: "Hi Infidel, we're massed here to fight back against your Spring Offensive."
B-52 BOMB/NAV: "Weapons away. What's for lunch?"
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
02/21/2004 9:55 Comments ||
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#3
Seems like there's lots of vacancies in the upper levels of Taliban management. Wonder why?
Posted by: Mike ||
02/21/2004 9:59 Comments ||
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As many as 18 people, including six Pakistanis, were arrested on the first day of the renewed operation against suspected al-Qaeda and Taliban men in Khost area of Afghanistan on Thursday. The joint operation was launched by the US and Afghan forces in Bangi Daar and Gurbaz areas of Khost to capture the suspected elements. The reports from Waziristan and Kurram agencies reveal
that the operation started in early hours of Thursday focused at Bangi Daar and Gurbaz areas. During the operation, the joint forces are going for identity search of the people with a view to arrest the suspected people and foreigners. Commander Ghaffar of the Afghan army also confirmed the launching of the operation but he was unable to provide details regarding its outcome. According to independent tribal sources, around 18 people have been arrested on the first day of the operation. Amongst them six are Pakistanis who were arrested on the charges of staying illegally in Afghanistan. The arrested Pakistanis are traders and they were present in the area for business purposes, sources added.
"What kinda business you in, Mahmoud?"
"We sell arms and ammunition!"
The other 12 arrested people are stated to be the Afghan nationals and majority of them were arrested for possessing illegal arms.
"What're arrestin' me for? That antiaircraft gun was my grampaw's!"
Some of them were also charged of defying the disarming process, launched in October last in all over Afghanistan. However, no active al-Qaeda man was arrested during the operation. The reports from tribal areas reveal that the ground forces are also assisted by the US Apache helicopters in all over Khost and the border areas along Afghanistan. During this air operation, the US copters reportedly violated Pakistanâs air space in Sher Khel region.
Too bad. Sue us.
Meanwhile, two US soldiers were reportedly killed in a bomb explosion in Khost on Thursday afternoon. The bomb explosion took place at around 1 pm. Further details in this respect are awaited.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/21/2004 12:16:10 AM ||
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#1
I was gigling until your last paragraph. US Soldiers. Angels.
#4
During this air operation, the US copters reportedly violated Pakistanâs air space
It's only helicopters. I hope they had a couple of B-52s and an AC-130 or two standing by in case they found something. Would really, really like to see a heavy smackdown on some of these idiots in the very near future.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
02/21/2004 11:39 Comments ||
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I suspect the identity of their current hosts could play a role in this ...
The most active terrorist network inside Iraq appears to be operating mostly apart from Al Qaeda, senior American officials say. Most significantly, the officials said, American intelligence had picked up signs that Qaeda members outside Iraq had refused a request from the group, Ansar al-Islam, for help in attacking Shiite Muslims in Iraq. The request was made by Ansarâs leader, a Jordanian, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, and intercepted by the United States last month. The apparent refusal is being described by some American intelligence analysts as an indication of a significant divide between the groups. Itâs a difference of tactics, hardly the sign that theyâre ready to go separate ways ...
The officials declined this week to say how American intelligence agencies had learned that members of Al Qaeda had rebuffed Mr. Zarqawiâs proposal. One of his top lieutenants, Hassan Ghul, has been in American custody for several weeks. In an interview today, one official cautioned that it would be a mistake to see the two groups as having diverged, and that it was too soon to say whether Al Qaeda might support Mr. Zarqawi. This official described the fact that Mr. Zarqawi had appealed for help as a sign of "emerging links" between the two groups. Zarqawi takes his orders from Saif al-Adel. How is any of this even remotely unclear?
It's almost as if they're being purposely obtuse...
"Maybe someone did say no, but that doesnât mean theyâll say no tomorrow," the official said. But, officials said, there are growing indications that the two groups are distinct and independent, and are embracing different tactics and agendas. A recent report by the State Departmentâs intelligence branch emphasizes those differences, according to American officials who have read the classified document. "Even among Sunni Muslim extremists and committed terrorists, including Zarqawi and Al Qaeda, there can be extreme discrepancies about strategy and tactics," one senior official said. "This is not a world of homogeneous bad guys."
It's the Azzam-bin Laden difference in approaches. It's nothing new...
Even if Mr. Zarqawi and Ansar are not working closely with Al Qaeda, they appear to be getting logistical support from outside Iraq, the American officials said. Somebody re-read the Milan wiretaps and tell me with a straight face that Zarqawiâs al-Tawhid Euromob isnât working for al-Qaeda.
A recent report by one intelligence agency shows lines of support, including supplies, money and recruiting, that extend to Mr. Zarqawiâs group from neighboring countries, including Iran, Turkey, Syria and Saudi Arabia. Mr. Zarqawi himself has traveled in and out of Iraq from Iran, where he took refuge after the American invasion last March, and from Syria, two military officials said. In public reports and private statements, American intelligence officials have been careful to portray Mr. Zarqawi as an associate of Al Qaeda rather than as a member. By contrast, the evidence since the war began of operations inside Iraq by Al Qaeda has been limited and generally inconclusive, American officials say. American intelligence officers believe Qaeda leaders to be in Afghanistan and Pakistan. This is mostly an NYT hit piece against the administrationâs linking of al-Qaeda disguised as a news story. About the only complete info here aside from this latest quibbling about who Ansar and Zarqawi work for is that al-Qaeda has turned down Zarqawiâs request, likely in deferrence to their current hosts in Tehran.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/21/2004 12:14:04 AM ||
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The head of Indonesiaâs largest Muslim organization urged religious leaders around the world to work together and prevent radicals from abusing faith for political purposes... The influential group, said to be the largest Islamic social organization in the world, runs numerous hospitals, schools and other institutions of higher learning in Indonesia. Next week, Nahdlatul Ulama is hosting a meeting of Islamic scholars and other religious figures from around the world to discuss relations between Islam and other religions. The three-day conference opens Monday in Jakarta. âMany factors within Islam misuse it for political purposes,â Muzadi told reporters. âThis also happens in other religions in the worldâ...
All I can think of off the top of my head are the goofs in Northern Ireland. And, of course, the bloodthirsty Lutherans of Wisconsin...
Muzadi blamed the rise of militant Islam on foreign agitators and Indonesian religious students returning from studies in radical schools in Pakistan or the Arabian Peninsula. This is a good sign. As I recall, a lot of Indonesiaâs militant islamofascist woes began with "missionaries" sent to Aceh from Iran . . .
Muzadi seems to have worked out cause and effect pretty well.
Posted by: cingold ||
02/21/2004 12:11:00 AM ||
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#1
My first question Iman, most holy cleric, person of knowledge. Could you explain apostophy law?
#2
Lucky, IMHO, on the positive side, Indonesia was first Buddhist, then Hindu, then Muslim, then colonized/anemically introduced to Christianity. The general Indonesian version of Islam tends to retain the influence of all those predecessors, and is not necessarily antagonistic to Christianity or the âWesternâ worldview. The old pastime in the villages was the wayang kulit, or Indonesian version of âPunch and Judy,â which are derivative stories based on Indian/Hindu epics. The prototypic Indonesian worldview places a lot of importance on maintaining harmony and balance, and (generally, again IMHO) the average Indonesian is pretty fed up with islamofascists.
#3
Rantburg U, cingold. Where would we be without words. Smelling stinky things thats where. And you all know I'm right! But my qusetion remains. Please, someone who has this figured out in a positive way, lay it on me. I'm easily convinced. Should one be killed for their rejectiono of MO.(El Faker)
#5
Wasn't there a tri-faith (Judaism, Islam, Catholicism) get-together a couple of years ago somewhere in the mid-east? It didn't end very well as I recall. In fact, it was somewhat of a joke.
Posted by: Rafael ||
02/21/2004 7:48 Comments ||
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#6
Lucky I believe is asking about colonic law as it applies to possesors... mainly what happens to those who wish to leave the one true region?
#8
Cingold -- good points, but really true only in regard to eastern and central Java. Northern Sumatra (Aceh) has been "fundamentalist" for a long time. Close historical connections with southern Yemen (OBL's ancestral homeland). In Java, "syncratists" (whose lax Islam is mixed with Hindu, Buddhist, and animist beliefs)are in a dire struggle with orthodoxy - which is spreading rapidly. I could foresee a civil war in Java between these two factions. And Lucky is absolutely right: the truly orthodox view the syncratists as apostates, worthy only of death.
My hat is off to all of the world's heterodox Muslims -- the poor bastards have it tough. Christian areas in Indonesia include the Lake Toba area just south of Aceh and the northern peninsula of Sulawesi (the Bataks and the Minahasa). I worry about them too.
#9
Sounds like a hudna to me. The fact that they are talking about this means they feel the heat on their nuts. I don't think there is one thing to be gained from a dialogue with Muslims. They have no honor and no respect for treaties. The only thing I want to hear them say is that they will stay in their own little corner of hell and stop trying to infect everyone else with their insanity.
#10
The points made are well taken, but I still think the situation in Indonesia is a bit different than most people realize. If you look at the area involved (see, e.g., CIA Factbook), you can appreciate that this has to be a diverse country -- even much more so than the U.S. Indonesia is the worldâs largest archipelago, comprised of more than 17,000 islands (6,000 of which are inhabited). In length it stretches about the distance of Maine to California, but (in terms of area) occupies about the landmass of the U.S. east of the Mississippi. The number of native languages spoken by different groups in Indonesia is staggering, and cultural differences can be extreme. It cannot be surprising that the very motto of the nation is âUnity in Diversity.â
That said, clearly the politicians of Indonesia are keenly aware that any move toward autonomy on the part of any subculture/people group (including islamofascists) could precipitate a cascade of seditionist autonomy seeking that would result in the very dissolution of the nation. Cohesion is king -- naturally leading to some paranoia and (at times) flat out abusive tactics.
Nonetheless, the composition of the Indonesian political picture is telling. It can be examined along Traditionalist, Modernist, Nationalist, and Religious lines. About 37% of Indonesians are Abangan (which is Traditionalist and Nationalistic): associated with the indigenous animist mysticism of the general population of Java, and Megawati Soekarnoputri (the woman president of the county) falls into this category. About 15% of Indonesians are Priyayi (which is Modernist and Nationalistic): associated with the Hindu-Buddhist mysticism of the old Javanese royalty. About 27% of Indonesians are Syncretic Muslimin (which is Traditionalist and Religious): associated with a syncretic mix of Islam and the indigenous mysticism of the general population. Only 12% are Textual Muslimin (which is considered Modernist and Religious): associated with a textual, or literal, Islam and the aesthetics [editorial note: cough, cough, puke, cough] of Arabia.
Indonesia is a democratic constitutional republic, and the government is divided into executive, legislative and judicial branches. The law is based on Roman-Dutch law, substantially modified by indigenous concepts and by more modern concepts of criminal procedure.
Although most Indonesians would at least nominally identify themselves as Muslims, the overwhelming majority extend religious tolerance. Hinduism thrives on Bali, and Christianity has a significant presence on Sulawesi, Flores, Timor, and several other islands as well as among the Batakâs in Sumatra.
Sorry for the long post, but I donât think you can paint all Indonesians with the same brush. As for apostasy laws -- there are no official ones. Regarding the views of religious leaders in Indonesia, I think it depends (again) on whether you are talking about the 27% of Indonesians who are Syncretic Muslimin (and probably wouldnât care), or the 12% who are Textual Muslimin (who would). As of January 26, 2004, this year alone Muslim protestors had attacked at least four churches in the regions of East Java, West Java and North Sumatra, Indonesia -- so militant islamofascists are, and have been a longstanding problem in Indonesia, but (again) they are the minority. A good take on the religious situation in Indonesia can be obtained through a Christian group call the Voice of the Martyrs, which writes âA report released on February 3 by the International Crisis Group (ICG) suggests that, while there has been some progress in the battle against militant Islamic groups in Indonesia, there remains an âunder appreciated longer term security risk,â particularly with the rise of a new group, âMujahidin KOMPAK.â" Itâs a mixed bag in Indonesia, but a distinction definitely has to be made between the majority of Indonesians who are tolerant and open minded, and the pronounced minority who are islamofascists.
#11
cingold. Long post my ass. Way to go. But my question still lingers. These Muslims of the 27%. The Syncretics. What is their take on my question. And what is their take on the 12%.
#12
Lucky -- Like everything in Indonesia, itâs not a simple answer, but more of a continuum of opinions, I think. Even the Syncretic Muslimin (the 27%) would be concerned if it seemed the Christians were âtaking over,â which is (I think) why you get mob violence against (usually evangelical) Churches in Indonesia. This also is, I think, why the Indonesian government underreports the number of Christians in Indonesia and stays out of those disputes (even when Churches get burnt down) -- kind of an appeasement, as long as no one is killed (and sometimes even then). But, in general, conversions are tolerated by the Indonesian Syncretic Muslimin -- that is, they wonât go out of their way to get you, but they might not like you. The Nationalists (some 52% of the country) would be even more tolerant.
Regarding the Textual Muslimin (the 12%), the Syncretic Muslimin leaders see the extremist radical groups as having connections with theological or organizational groups outside of Indonesia. They do not support legislating observance of sharia law. However, they are somewhat sympathetic to the radical groups -- to the extent that they see the radicalism of the groups as an expression of anger against the failures of the Indonesian government to improve living conditions in Indonesia. Nonetheless, the largest mainstream Syncretic Muslimin organizations, the Nahdlatul Ulama and the Muhammadiyah, have rejected the violence of the islamofascists, have agreed to carry out joint activities to combat extremism, and their leaders have appealed to the government to take harsh measures against lawbreakers. A long discussion of these matters (even if a bit dated) appears at this link: ISLAM IN MODERN INDONESIA
A RECENTLY INTERCEPTED MESSAGE from Iraq-based terrorist Abu Musab al Zarqawi asking the al Qaeda leadership for reinforcements reignited the debate over al Qaeda ties with Saddam Husseinâs fallen Baath regime. William Safire of the New York Times called the message a "smoking gun," while the University of Michiganâs Juan Cole says that Safire "offers not even one document to prove" the Saddam-al Qaeda nexus. What you are about to read bears directly on that debate. It is based on a recent interview with Abdul Rahman al-Shamari, who served in Saddamâs secret police, the Mukhabarat, from 1997 to 2002, and is currently sitting in a Kurdish prison. Al-Shamari says that he worked for a man who was Saddamâs envoy to al Qaeda.
Before recounting details from my January 29 interview, some caution is necessary. Al-Shamariâs account was compelling and filled with specific information that would either make him a skilled and detailed liar or a man with information that the U.S. public needs to hear. My Iraqi escort informed me that al-Shamari has been in prison since March 2002, that U.S. officials have visited him several times, and that his story has remained consistent. There was little language barrier; my Arabic skills allowed me to understand much of what al-Shamari said, even before translation. Finally, subsequent conversations with U.S. government officials in Washington and Baghdad, as well as several articles written well before this one, indicate that al-Shamariâs claims have been echoed by other sources throughout Iraq.
When I walked into the tiny interrogation room, it was midmorning. I had just finished interviews with two other prisoners--both members of Ansar al-Islam, the al Qaeda affiliate responsible for attacks against Kurdish and Western targets in northern Iraq. The group had been active in a small enclave near Halabja in the Kurdistan region from about September 2001 until the U.S. assault on Iraq last spring, when its Arab and Kurdish fighters fled over the Iranian border, only to return after the war. U.S. officials now suspect Ansar in some of the bloodier attacks against U.S. interests throughout Iraq.
My first question to al-Shamari was whether he was involved in the operations of Ansar al Islam. My translator asked him the question in Arabic, and al-Shamari nodded: "Yes." Al-Shamari, who appears to be in his late twenties, said that his division of the Mukhabarat provided weapons to Ansar, "mostly mortar rounds." This statement echoed an independent Kurdish report from July 2002 alleging that ordnance seized from Ansar al Islam was produced by Saddamâs military and a Guardian article several weeks later alleging that truckloads of arms were shipped to Ansar from areas controlled by Saddam.
[Hack! Caff!] That gun's really smoking...
In addition to weapons, al-Shamari said, the Mukhabarat also helped finance Ansar al Islam. "On one occasion we gave them ten million Swiss dinars [$700,000]," al-Shamari said, referring to the pre-1990 Iraqi currency. On other occasions, the Mukhabarat provided more than that. The assistance, he added, was furnished "every month or two months."
No surprises, only confirmation...
I then picked up a picture of a man known as Abu Wael that I had acquired from Kurdish intelligence. In the course of my research, several sources had claimed that Abu Wael was on Saddamâs payroll and was also an al Qaeda operative, but few had any facts to back up their claim. For example, one Arabic daily, al-Sharq al-Awsat, stated flatly before the Iraq war, "all information indicates [that Abu Wael] was the link between al Qaeda and the Iraqi regime" but neglected to provide any such information. Agence France-Presse after the war cited a Kurdish security chiefâs description of Abu Wael as a "key link to Saddamâs former Baath regime" and an "intelligence agent for the ousted president originally from Baghdad." Again, nothing was provided to substantiate this claim. In my own analysis of this group, I could do little but weakly assert that Wael was "reportedly an al Qaeda operative on Saddamâs payroll." The best reporting on Wael came from a March 2002 New Yorker article by Jeffrey Goldberg, who had visited a Kurdish prison in northern Iraq and interviewed Ansar prisoners. He spoke with one Iraqi intelligence officer named Qassem Hussein Muhammed, whom Kurdish intelligence captured while he was on his way to the Ansar enclave. Muhammed told Goldberg that Abu Wael was "the actual decision-maker" for Ansar al Islam and "an employee of the Mukhabarat."
Given Abu Wael's travels, that fits well.
"Do you know this man?" I asked al-Shamari. His eyes widened and he smiled. He told me that he knew the man in the picture, but that his graying beard was now completely white. He said that the man was Abu Wael, whose full name is Colonel Saadan Mahmoud Abdul Latif al-Aani. The prisoner told me that he had worked for Abu Wael, who was the leader of a special intelligence directorate in the Mukhabarat. That directorate provided assistance to Ansar al Islam at the behest of Saddam Hussein, whom Abu Wael had met "four or five times." Al-Shamari added that "Abu Waelâs wife is Izzat al-Douriâs cousin," making him a part of Saddamâs inner circle. Al-Douri, of course, was the deputy chairman of Saddamâs Revolutionary Command Council, a high-ranking official in Iraqâs armed forces, and Saddamâs righthand man. Originally number six on the most wanted list, he is still believed to be at large in Iraq, and is suspected of coordinating aspects of insurgency against American troops, primarily in the Sunni triangle. Why, I asked, would Saddam task one of his intelligence agents to work with the Kurds, an ethnic group that was an avowed enemy of the Baath regime, and had clashed with Iraqi forces on several occasions? Al-Shamari said that Saddam wanted to create chaos in the pro-American Kurdish region. In other words, he used Ansar al Islam as a tool against the Kurds.
Which is the reason we've come up with for the establishment of Ansar in the Kurdish areas. It wasn't really all that hard to work out, but it's always nice to have your conclusions confirmed...
As an intelligence official for the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (one of the two major parties in northern Iraq) explained to me, "Most of the Kurdish fighters in Ansar al Islam didnât know the link to Saddam." They believed they were fighting a local jihad. Only the high-level lieutenants were aware that Abu Wael was involved.
Which also fits with our opinion that the Kurdish part of Ansar was yokels and hicks, useful for beating up on the local peshmerga, and providing a cover for the presence of the al-Tawhid Arabs...
Al-Shamari also told me that the links between Saddamâs regime and the al Qaeda network went beyond Ansar al Islam. He explained in considerable detail that Saddam actually ordered Abu Wael to organize foreign fighters from outside Iraq to join Ansar. Al-Shamari estimated that some 150 foreign fighters were imported from al Qaeda clusters in Jordan, Turkey, Syria, Yemen, Egypt, and Lebanon to fight with Ansar al Islamâs Kurdish fighters. I asked him who came from Lebanon. "I donât know the name of the group," he replied. "But the man we worked with was named Abu Aisha." Al-Shamari was likely referring to Bassam Kanj, alias Abu Aisha, who was a little-known militant of the Dinniyeh group, a faction of the Lebanese al Qaeda affiliate Usbat al Ansar. Kanj was killed in a January 2000 battle with Lebanese forces.
The Dinnieh group of Takfiri was clobbered by the Lebanese army when they got out of hand in 2000. But that also implies an earlier presence for what was to become Ansar in Kurdistan.
Al-Shamari said that there was also contact with the Egyptian "Gamaat al-Jihad," which is now seen as the core of al Qaedaâs leadership, as well as with the Algerian Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat (GSPC), which bin Laden helped create in 1998 as an alternative to Algeriaâs Armed Islamic Group (GIA). Al-Shamari talked of Abu Waelâs links with Turkeyâs "Jamaa al-Khilafa"--likely the group also known as the "Union of Islamic Communities" (UIC) or the "Organization of Caliphate State." This terror group, established in 1983 by Cemalettin Kaplan, reportedly met with bin Laden in Afghanistan in 1997, and later sent cadres there to train. Three years before 9/11, UIC plotted to crash a plane into Ankaraâs Ataturk Mausoleum on a day when hundreds of Turkish officials were present.
Kaplan was the "Caliph of Cologne." I thought his Qaeda ties were only peripheral. Goes to show what I know...
Al-Shamari stated that Abu Wael sometimes traveled to meet with these groups. All of them, he added, visited Wael in Iraq and were provided Iraqi visas. This corroborates an interview I had with a senior PUK official in April 2003, who stated that many of the Arab fighters captured or killed during the war held passports with Iraqi visas. Al-Shamari said that importing foreign fighters to train in Iraq was part of his job in the Mukhabarat. The fighters trained in Salman Pak, a facility located some 20 miles southeast of Baghdad. He said that he had personal knowledge of 500 fighters that came through Salman Pak dating back to the late 1990s; they trained in "urban combat, explosives, and car bombs." This account agrees with a White House Background Paper on Iraq dated September 12, 2002, which cited the "highly secret terrorist training facility in Iraq known as Salman Pak, where both Iraqis and non-Iraqi Arabs receive training on hijacking planes and trains, planting explosives in cities, sabotage, and assassinations."
Abu Wael also sent money to the aforementioned al Qaeda affiliates, and to other groups that "worked against the United States." Abu Wael dispensed most of the funds himself, al-Shamari said, but there was also some cooperation with Abu Musab al Zarqawi. Zarqawi, as the prisoner explained, was al Qaedaâs link to Iraq in the same way that Abu Wael was the Iraqi link to al Qaeda. Indeed, Zarqawi (who received medical attention in Baghdad in 2002 for wounds that he suffered from U.S. forces in Afghanistan) and Abu Wael helped Ansar al Islam prepare for the U.S. assault on its small enclave last year. According to al-Shamari, Ansar was given the plan from the top Iraqi leadership: "If the U.S. was to hit [the Ansar base], the fighters were directed to go to Ramadi, Tikrit, Mosul . . . Falluja and other places." This statement agreed with a prior prisoner interview I had with the attempted murderer of Barham Salih, prime minister of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan. This second prisoner told me that "Ansar had plans to go south if the U.S. would attack." Al-Shamari said the new group was to be named Jund al-Shams, and would deal mainly in explosives. He believed that Zarqawi and Abu Wael were responsible for some of the attacks against U.S. soldiers in central Iraq. "Their directives were to hit America and American interests," he said.
Al-Shams showed up last June, when Zarqawi was first reporting working from Iran. An article by Matthew Levitt in National Review suggests it's one of the many aliases of al-Tawhid. We should probably be thinking of Tawhid, Shams, al-Sunnah, and whatever else pops up as battalions within a regiment named Ansar al-Islam, commanded by Zarqawi, in itself part of an al-Qaeda division commanded by Saif al-Adel, though that's probably describing it too neatly.
Al-Shamari claimed to have had prior information about al Qaeda attacks in the past. "I knew about the attack on the American in Jordan," he said, referring to the November 2002 assassination of USAID official Lawrence Foley. "Zarqawi," he said, "ordered that man to be killed."
And an al-Qaeda audio tape took credit for the killing. Still any doubt about the connection? Didn't think so.
These are some of the highlights from my interview, which lasted about 45 minutes. I heard one other salient Abu Wael anecdote in an earlier interview during my eight-day trip to Iraq. That interview was with the former tenth-in-command for Ansar al Islam, a man known simply as Qods. In June 2003, just before he was arrested and put in the jail where I met him, Qods said that he saw Abu Wael. After the war, Abu Wael dispatched him from an Ansar safe house in Ravansar, Iran, to deliver a message to his son in Baghdad. The message: Ansar al Islam leaders needed help getting back into Iraq. It was only then, he said, when he met Abu Waelâs son, that he learned of the link between the Baathists and al Qaeda. Qods told me that he was angry with the leaders of Ansar for hiding its ties to Saddam. "Ansar had lots of secret ties between the Baath and Arab leaders," he said. The challenge now is to document the claims of these witnesses about the secret ties between Saddam, al Qaeda, and Abu Wael. A number of U.S. officials have indicated to me that there are other Iraqis who have similar stories to tell. Perhaps they can corroborate Abdul Rahman al-Shamariâs account. Meanwhile, the U.S. deck of cards representing Iraqâs 55 most wanted appears to be one card short. Colonel Saadan Mahmoud Abdul Latif al-Aani, aka Abu Wael, should be number 56.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/21/2004 12:04:20 AM ||
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Excellent piece, Dan!
Posted by: Fred ||
02/21/2004 12:01 Comments ||
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Suggestion for Fred, Dan and Paul: the three of you need to pool your resources and info, and write a book. Seriously. Yes, I know it would be difficult, but a well-researched book on this topic -- how al-Qaeda, the Chechnyans, Iran, Syria, Saddam, the Saudis, etc all are working together -- would be invaluable.
And you've already got parts of it written.
Seriously.
Posted by: Steve White ||
02/21/2004 13:02 Comments ||
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This terror group, established in 1983 by Cemalettin Kaplan, reportedly ....
Singapore opened a terrorism research centre on Friday to train law enforcement officials to combat terror and maintain a regional database aimed at preventing future attacks. âKnowledge is key,â said Singaporeâs Home Affairs Minister Wong Kan Seng at the centreâs opening. The International Centre for Political Violence and Terrorism Research is staffed by 16 researchers from Asia, Africa, the Middle East, Europe and North America. The centre will maintain a computer database of terrorists and other documents collected from Southeast Asia and Afghanistan.
I imagine Singapore will make it work well, too.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
02/21/2004 00:02 ||
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âKnowledge is key,â
Save a bundle and come to Rantburg. For half the cost you get double the info.
Posted by: Rafael ||
02/21/2004 8:04 Comments ||
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Malaysia has extended for two more years the detention of six alleged members of the Jemaah Islamiyah (JI) terrorist group, saying they still posed a security threat. Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, who is also Home Minister, signed orders on Friday to keep the suspects in a northern Malaysian prison camp under a law that allows detention without trial. The six were among dozens of alleged militants arrested in late 2001 and early 2002, when authorities in Malaysia and neighbouring Singapore said theyâd uncovered an Al Qaeda-linked plot by Jemaah Islamiyah to blow up the US Embassy and other Western targets in Singapore. Among those detained is Yazid Sufaat, a former Malaysian army captain accused of helping several top al-Qaeda operatives when they visited Malaysia in 2000, including two Sept. 11 hijackers, and a close associate of alleged Jemaah Islamiyah leader Riduan Isamuddin, also known as Hambali. Officials say Yazid, a US trained biochemist, is also linked to Al Qaedaâs attempts to produce chemical and biological weapons. Yazid was arrested in late 2001 as he returned to Malaysia from Afghanistan. His detention was extended for two years last month. Among the six suspects whose detentions were extended on Friday is Yasidâs brother-in-law Ahmad Yani Ismail, and Abdul Samad Shukri, a former accountant with Exxon Mobil in Kuala Lumpur.
Okay by me. Hope the conditions at the camp are very unpleasant. I didn't know Malaysia had a Guantanamo.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
02/21/2004 00:02 ||
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Fred,
There's a Malaysian prison up the river from Kota Bharu that's supposed to be the equivalent of the French prison in Guyana. It was built by the Japanese as a prisoner-of-war camp, and had about one survivor per 150 inmates, IIRC. It makes Guantanamo look like paradise. Snakes, 10-inch scorpions, 25-inch centipedes, more than 400 other different kinds of creepy-crawlies, 100% humidity, jungle on all sides, 80-110 degree (F) temps year round, lots of tropical diseases, mold and fungus. Really "nice" place. I'd love to see 200-300 Iraqi "terrorists" put there for four or five years. Then we deliver their bones to their families.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
02/21/2004 13:00 Comments ||
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Hamas and other resistance groups are discussing the formation of an "emergency" government to take charge in the event of a Zionist evacuation of the Gaza Strip, said a leading Hamas spokesman.
Gonna go for the gold, are they?
Concerns that Hamas could step into a political vacuum in Gaza were on the agenda of a team of senior U.S. envoys who arrived yesterday to hear details of the Zionist "separation plan." The State Department and National Security Council envoys were scheduled to meet today with Ariel Sharon, who has said that the Zionists might withdraw unilaterally from the Gaza Strip if there is no progress on the U.S.-sponsored "road map" peace initiative.
Which there won't be...
Palestinian officials tried yesterday to calm worries about a pullout. Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia told the Belgian parliament that the Palestinian Authority is ready to take control of Gaza, and Jibril Rajoub, the top security aide to authority leader Yasser Arafat, said he had received assurances from Hamas' leaders that the Islamic resistance group isn't planning a takeover. But Ghazi Hamid, who as editor of a Hamas-controlled weekly newspaper speaks for the party, told The Washington Times that the existing Palestinian leadership is too weak to cope with the upheaval of a Zionist pullout."The [Palestinian Authority] cannot take responsibility in this situation and we should look to a new leadership that can run the situation," he said. "There is a dialogue among the Palestinian factions â Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Fatah â to create a new leadership. It's kind of a temporary or emergency leadership. We need new leadership because we've spent 10 years under the current one and we've gotten nothing. The situation has deteriorated." Mr. Hamid said Hamas wouldn't dare attempt a coup against Mr. Arafat, but he called for the establishment of a "collective leadership." In the past, Hamas has refused offers from Mr. Arafat to join the government.
I didn't hear him offer this time.
The details of Mr. Sharon's withdrawal plan are hazy. The top-selling newspaper Yediot Ahronot said yesterday that the Zionists where gearing up to evacuate completely about 20 Jewish occupiers in Gaza and hand over the property to some sort of international body. Other reports have suggested that Zionists troops will patrol the enclaves after the evacuation of about 7,500 Zionist occupiers in the 20 settlements. The U.S. envoys were expected to urge Sharon to negotiate the terms of any withdrawal with Mr. Arafat to ensure an orderly transition, but Zionist television commentators said last night that the prime minister would insist on acting unilaterally.
I doubt they were urging him to talk with Yasser Whatsisname. Maybe with Qurei...
"Whatever is done, we want to see it done as part of the road map. Everyone has pronounced the road map as dead, but we at the State Department have not, nor has [President Bush,]" said Paul Patin, a spokesman for the U.S. Embassy. "All things being equal, we're against unilateral actions and favor negotiations. Having said that, we're not against all unilateral actions at all times. If Sharon said, 'We are going to evacuate Gaza,' we're not against that per se. We're intrigued by the idea of Sharon of all people deciding to evacuate settlements in the Gaza Strip."
Sharon pulls them out, civil war in 5-4-3-2-1... Cue carnage...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
02/21/2004 00:02 ||
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Fred, c'mon over to my place, I'll have the beer and popcorn waiting ...
Posted by: Steve White ||
02/21/2004 0:40 Comments ||
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I hope my shipment of big foam fingers arrives in time...
Posted by: Fred ||
02/21/2004 12:03 Comments ||
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So Sharon proposes unilateral withdrawl from Gaza and both sides have cows? It seems to me (pardon my ignorance) but the only Israeli objection to pulling out of Gaza would be the religious "Manifest Destiny" types in fortified settlments. The GPP (Gaza Pullout Plan) seems like a winner to me.
BTW, Fred, which digit on your foam finger shipment is extended, middle or index, or perhaps index and pinkie? LOL!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
02/21/2004 12:27 Comments ||
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Why not have Egypt take control?
Posted by: B ||
02/21/2004 12:32 Comments ||
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I'm beginning to see the evil grin on Ariel Sharon's face as more and more is written about the Israeli pullout of Gaza, and I like it!
Sharon pulls all the Israelis out of Gaza. Civil war breaks out, and devastates both the population and any economic activity going on in the Strip. Israel finishes the West Bank wall, and starts in on the Gaza wall. Gaza becomes a cesspool, with the PA unable to do anything, and at the same time, Gaza is also sucking money from the PA and any international aid groups funneling money in that direction. Both walls are finished, the "palestinians" are isolated, and the effectiveness they're so well known for sees them rapidly regress 800 years in 20. Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Lebanon (if they're still able) must spend a larger and larger portion of their budget to keep the "palestinians" afloat, preventing the money from being used to wage war against Israel, either directly or through proxy.
Sharon is one clever dude!
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
02/21/2004 12:46 Comments ||
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Why not have Egypt take control?
Becuase once the border with Egypt was open and the money flow dried up, almost everyone would leave and Gaza would be an almost empty stretch of desert.
#8
Becuase once the border with Egypt was open and the money flow dried up, almost everyone would leave and Gaza would be an almost empty stretch of desert.
That would be the logical course of action. Egypt wouldn't touch that idea with a ten-foot pole:
1) Gaza would cease being a pressure point on Israel (or at worst, it'd be a controllable one) and
2)Egypt would be faced with thousands of Palestinian refugees. Not a good recipe for national stabilization.
Iraqi oil exports should rake in 13.5 billion dollars this year, 1.5 billion dollars more than first thought, a top US Treasury Department official said Thursday. "The numbers that were estimated for total revenues for 2004 were about 12 billion (dollars) originally and now that is up another, about 1.5 billion," the undersecretary for international affairs John Taylor said. "So that is a 1.5 billion dollar increase in the total revenues that are being forecast from the oil in 2004," Taylor told reporters in a telephone conference call as he visited Baghdad.
Last month, the bipartisan Congressional Budget Office said Iraq's oil would likely bring in 12 billion dollars in 2004 and a total 69 billion dollars over 2004-2007 as the infrastructure was patched up. The CBO said the 69-billion-dollar figure was the most likely, but that revenues could be between 44 billion and 89 billion, depending on prices and other factors. But the CBO said the oil export revenue "will probably not be sufficient to cover all of the country's capital investment needs, at least in the short run." It added that if Iraq fails to get relief from international debts, "it may have trouble funding any rebuilding efforts."
The CBO pointed out that international donors had pledged some 36 billion dollars in aid for Iraq, about half of which would come from US grants. Yet Iraq had debts, contractual claims and war reparation claims that could be anywhere from 45 billion to 400 billion dollars. Improving security in Iraq was critical for any economic improvement that could attract foreign investors, the CBO said.
I doubt the Bush team will get any credit for this, and the Dems will find something in it to bitch about if they (officially) notice at all...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
02/21/2004 00:02 ||
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Egg-cellent!
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
02/21/2004 0:22 Comments ||
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I think the debt issue is going to be resolved close to the lower number. Something about James Baker's briefcase makes me think that this will get fixed.
Posted by: Steve White ||
02/21/2004 0:38 Comments ||
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For every Iraqi barrel that ships thats one less barrell from..............
Are there Iraqi grown ups that could make it happen or is it just a big car swarm?
#4
You guys are going to love this: I visit the Independent's forum on prospero. Was "discussing" w/some clueless LLL moonbat why I don't care that H got a no-bid contract, what were the people of Iraq supposed to do while the bidding process went on and how we needed to get them up and running ASAP.
His response - It wasn't important for them to get the oil wells repaired.
#5
A2U, what are you going to do? Remember when the Reagan admin was labeled as animals, near pigs, when they were reported identifying catsup as a vegetable for school lunch purposes. Everyboby knew the starving children needed real tomatoes.
So segway 2004, starving chldren aside. What do I hear? The "back room boyz" have conspired to reclasify a new "burger flipping" job as a manufacturing job. (get it, manufacturing a burger). Hey, must be true, heard it on ABC news. (on the half hour)
#7
What do I hear? The "back room boyz" have conspired to reclasify a new "burger flipping" job as a manufacturing job. (get it, manufacturing a burger). Hey, must be true, heard it on ABC news. (on the half hour)
What?! The supposed real journalists have bought that one?! They must taste Kerry's blood in the water; maybe there are some more scandals in his closet?
Here's what they're talking about; it's on par with the whole National Guard lie.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
02/21/2004 13:11 Comments ||
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I haven't heard any reports about sabotage of the oil infrastructure for a while. Surprising. Maybe the security on the pipelines has increased, because I doubt the bad guys interest in sabotage has decreased.
#9
"I haven't heard any reports about sabotage of the oil infrastructure for a while."
This is prolly due to two factors coming together:
1) Payoffs demanded by tribal leaders who "protect" (read: don't sabotage / allow sabotage) pipeline sections / refineries in their tribal area
2) Education provided these tribal leaders that we don't DO payoffs, per se, we expect asshats to care about their country
There are prolly some (much less than originally demanded, I'm certain) funds being paid to go hand-in-hand with the threat that continued sabotage in a tribe's area would be ascribed to that tribe's leader... And that the frequency of sabotage and military night raids would be linked.
A new group? A consolidation of groups? Mahmoud, sitting in his apartment with his word processor? My initial feeling is Mahmoud, but we'll see in the course of the next month or two.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
02/21/2004 00:02 ||
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er....the marines are taking over fallujah--its gonna be the nfl against pop warner
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI ||
02/21/2004 23:19 Comments ||
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A Pakistani businessman who has been linked to the illegal export from the US to Pakistan of high-speed switches has ties to the countryâs military, according to documents filed in an American court and interviews, the New York Times has reported. The switches can be used as triggers for nuclear weapons. An Israeli businessman, Asher Karni, who is accused of being a middleman in the nuclear black market worked to supply not only Pakistan but also its archrival India, the court records indicated. South Africa-based Asher Karni faces felony charges of exporting nuclear bomb triggers to Pakistan. The Times claimed that Humayun Khan, the businessman whose office address was the final destination for the shipment last fall of 66 triggers, confirmed that he and his father had been suppliers of equipment and technology to the Pakistani military for 20 years.
Another name to add to the proliferation list...
Mr Khan insisted that he had not been involved in the effort to smuggle the American-made triggers to Pakistan.
"No, no! Certainly not!"
âI know itâs my address, and everything is pointing to me and my company,â Mr Khan said as he sat in the Islamabad office of his company, Pakland PME. The court documents are part of the case against Mr Karni, who was arrested on January 1 by US federal agents in Denver. Mr Karni told the American manufacturer of the switches, PerkinElmer Optoelectronics of Salem, Massachusetts, that they would be sent to hospitals in South Africa for use in treating kidney stones. American officials said e-mails to Mr Karni detail Mr Khanâs repeated requests between June and September 2003 for the trigger switches.
PerkinElmer's a reputable company...
NYT also claimed that in other e-mail messages in the court records, Mr Khan wrote repeatedly to Mr Karni between May 29 and June 16 last year to inquire whether he could purchase infrared target detectors for Pakistani Air Force missiles. Mr Khan produced letters showing that he tried to buy oscilloscopes, magnetometers, telemetry systems and airplane guidance systems from American companies in 2002 and 2003 for civilian companies. NYT said Pakistani officials declined to comment on the Karni case and the trigger devices. Federal Information Secretary Syed Anwar Mehmood said that Pakistan had received no official notification of Mr Karniâs investigation.
"Therefore we have no official opinion. Ask us later, after we've thunk something up."
Mr Khan produced a letter from an Islamabad construction company asking that he purchase a sophisticated oscilloscope made by Tektronix, a Beaverton, Oregon, company. The Pakistani construction company said it had never issued such a letter. Mr Khan also provided a letter from a television company that he said had requested another Tektronix oscilloscope. An official from the television company said he could not remember placing such an order, and did not respond to subsequent requests for comment.
Sounds like he's got a drawer full of letterhead...
American investigators have said the high-speed switches were ordered for a group called AJKMC Lithography Aid Society.
"AJK" would probably stand for "Azad Jammu & Kashmir". The "MC" would probably be something like "Muslim Council". I'm not sure how closely lithography and aid societies go together...
Mr Khan showed a letter from the group saying the switches had gone to hospitals in Pakistan and Sri Lanka. But the groupâs letterhead listed its address as Humayun Khanâs office in Islamabad.
Makes his own letterhead, I guess...
Mr Khan said he could not explain why the group had used his office address.
Or why the group never heard of him. Or why the group doesn't exist.
Alisha Goff, a spokeswoman for Tektronix, said that Mr Khan was an independent distributor in Pakistan for the company and that all shipments made to his company had been approved by the Department of Commerce. The court files established Mr Karniâs Indian connection. They included e-mail exchanges between and Indian businessman Raghavendra Rao who was trying secretly to buy material for two Indian rocket factories.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
02/21/2004 00:02 ||
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I thought Perkin only made telescopes I can't afford.
#2
PE is a scientific supply and equipment company. We have a few PE items in our lab -- spectrophotometers and such. They make good equipment, though they've been passed by other companies in the biomedical biz (e.g., Beckman) for the really high-tech end.
Posted by: Steve White ||
02/21/2004 12:54 Comments ||
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Perkin Elmer made the primary mirror for the Hubble Space Telescope- you know, the one that needed a contact lens.
Jamaat-ud-Daawa (JD) Ameer Prof Hafiz Muhammad Saeed on Friday condemned the clerics who attended the government Ulema-o-Mushiaq convention and said they are responsible for damaging Islam. Addressing the Friday congregation at Jamia Qadssia, Mr Saeed said the ulema, who are extremists according to the government, are following Allahâs commands.
"Allah commands us to kill large numbers of people, y'know."
âWe have no need to get permission from the government for jihad because according to Shariah, permission for jihad can only be sought from rulers who follow the path of jihadâ, he said. Mr Saeed said the ulema who gave their support to President Pervez Musharraf are government agents and they have no connection to jihad. âThere was not a single religious scholar at the convention who could recite the Quranic verses about jihad,â he said.
"... whereas those are the only ones I'm familiar with!"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
02/21/2004 00:02 ||
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âWe have no need to get permission from the government for jihad because according to Shariah, permission for jihad can only be sought from rulers who follow the path of jihadâ, he said.
Wow, now how convenient is that, eh? Old Allah, besides anticipating the Muslim's dire need for nukes, the insidious nature of MTV, the dangers of Britney's titties, and scores of other examples of omniscient prescience, has crafted a self-serving logic box that is unassailable! I'm converting to Islam today, dood!
America's chief diplomat in Havana issued a statement Friday to emphasize that no U.S. military action is planned against Cuba. The statement by James Cason, chief of the U.S. Interests Section, was distributed to international journalists in Cuba one week after President Fidel Castro challenged President Bush to be clear about how Washington plans to realize a transition to democracy on the island. For nearly a year, Castro and other officials have publicly expressed concerns that the U.S. military could attack the communist nation. In a public speech, Castro wondered aloud if Washington was planning to kill him. Last month, Castro directly accused Bush of plotting with Cuban exiles in Miami to assassinate him.
Nah. We don't have to do that. All we have to do is wait a year or two until Fidel drops dead of old age. Then we can assassinate Raul, if he's still alive.
U.S. officials talk about a transition, "but how would they make this transition?" Castro asked in his Feb. 15 speech, suggesting that "the only way is to proceed with an illegal assassination using the scores of techniques they have available." In his statement, Cason said that President Bush has repeatedly emphasized that Washington seeks a peaceful transition to democracy to Cuba brought about by Cubans.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
02/21/2004 00:02 ||
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That there is no attack planned doesn't mean there are no attack plans.
#3
Old castro needs the US to be his boogey man, he does not have much more.
And I would not say there is no plan, may need to be dusted off a bit but there is a plan.
Posted by: Dan ||
02/21/2004 9:45 Comments ||
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#4
And I would not say there is no plan, may need to be dusted off a bit but there is a plan.
If not, give me eight hours, access to necessary information, and one helper, and I'll build one for you. It'll even work, if the proper resources are available (I'm sure they are). Cuba is not a hard case to plan against. Centralized planning, centralized command and control, isolated units, obsolete equipment, and people just ITCHING to get rid of Fidel and his bad boyz.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
02/21/2004 11:46 Comments ||
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#5
Fidel's marathon speeches would put even a Predator drone to sleep.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
02/21/2004 11:55 Comments ||
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#6
Careful, OP. There's a little over 11 million people there (and a few million more in Florida :-) -- some of those folks are going to stay loyal for whatever reason. I actually think the Cuban military would put up a decent fight -- they're professionals and they have pride.
However, if you do develop an 8 hour plan, I'd like a copy. A pdf file will be fine :-)
Posted by: Steve White ||
02/21/2004 12:28 Comments ||
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#7
Think you are right, Cuban nationalism would eventually make an invasion more costly than it's worth. And yes, the Cuban army (infantry) would fight well and skillfully. Time for MTV.
Scores of Americans, including missionaries and aid workers, streamed out of Haiti on Friday to escape a two-week rebellion that has overwhelmed the impoverished country's north. Many police deserted their posts, and rebels threatened new attacks this weekend. Later in the day, American and other diplomats handed President Jean-Bertrand Aristide a plan that calls for an interim governing council to advise him, and appoint a prime minister agreeable to both sides. But both sides were almost certain to reject it — Aristide because he has said he will not negotiate with the opposition, and the rival leaders because they want Aristide to step down.
Guess they'll just have to fight it out, then...
Pro-government militants burned 15 homes in the western port of St. Marc overnight, and three people died in the fires, independent Radio Galaxie reported. A day after the U.S. government urged Americans to leave Haiti, more than 200 people from the United States, France and Canada stood in long lines Friday at Toussaint Louverture International Airport, anxious to get out.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
02/21/2004 00:02 ||
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#1
Haiti's worse than a failed state, it's a hopeless state. That half of the island needs about 150 years to recover. And while I'm on the subject, is there a more destructive fuel that charcoal?
#3
I think he means destructive to the environment. Charcoal production involves stripping the land of its forests and cooking the wood down to charcoal -- very labor intense, lots of fumes, no more trees, etc. And then you use charcoal and that's more fumes and smoke in the environment.
Posted by: Steve White ||
02/21/2004 12:29 Comments ||
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#4
What Steve W. said.
In the tropics it's even worse it lays bare the soil for 80 - 90 inches of rain barrelling down the mountains....
Temporarily.....1/3 to France, 1/3 to Quebec, 1/3 to Louisiana, 1/3 to Australia, 1/3 to Nambibia.
#5
Temporarily.....1/3 to France, 1/3 to Quebec, 1/3 to Louisiana, 1/3 to Australia, 1/3 to Nambibia.
Let's leave Louisiana out of it. I'd also recommending sending the entire population to Darfur. IF they like to fight so much, let's give them something interesting to fight about.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
02/21/2004 22:41 Comments ||
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The Egyptian human rights organization condemned preventing the assistant secretary general of the physicians association, Issam al-Aryan, who is a key figure in the Ikhwan al-Muslimin (Muslim Brotherhood) group from traveling to Beirut on Monday, where he was presumed to take part in the seminar on the relations between the Islamic world and Europe. In a statement, the organization said that the Egyptian security forces summoned al-Aryan before he took the plane after he had completed all travel measures and notified him he is banned from traveling. Al-Aryan explained that the authorities did not explain the reasons to him, adding that he on Thursday filed an official complaint to the minister of the Interior, Habib al-Adeli, and to the chairman of the state security intelligence department to investigate in this incident. He said he was invited to take part in the symposium under the title "the Islamic world and Europe from dialogue to joint understanding" that started on Tuesday in Beirut and lasted for three days, and organized by several research centers including the consultation center for studies and documentation, and the French monthly magazine Le Monde Diplomatique. Al-Aryan considered that another leading figure in the Muslim Brothers movement, the economy professor Abdul Hamid al-Ghazali was banned on Wednesday from traveling to Jordan where he has to teach for several months in one of the Jordanian universities. The Egyptian human rights organization considered that preventing al-Aryan from traveling is considered a violation to several human rights including "the right to move and travel." The Muslim Brothers organization in Egypt have been exposed to pressure, but that did not prevent it from being the largest opposition political forces in Egypt. It has 16 independent parliamentarians in the parliament whose members toll 454.
I guess there are occasional advantages to running a dictatorship. Though I'd have shot them, myself.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
02/21/2004 00:02 ||
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The government has tasked the pro-establishment clerics with presenting a moderate picture of Islam without jihad to counter the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA), militant outfits and extremist groups.
I'm not convinced they actually exist in Pakland, but go on...
âThe government has tasked the pro-establishment ulema and mashaikh (clerics) to help eliminate jihadi culture from society,â sources told Daily Times. The sources said that according to the new strategy designed by President General Pervez Musharrafâs close aides, the government wanted to form a parallel religious force against the âorthodox and extremist elementsâ.
I hope they're well-armed. And I have a hard time conceiving of moderate bully boys...
âPresident Musharraf now wants to dispel the impression that Pakistani seminaries are producing militants,â the sources said. Maulana Izhar Shah Bukhari, who attended the recently held Ulema Mashaikh Convention with President Musharraf, told Daily Times that the president wanted to mitigate the mounting international pressure regarding the religious parties. âThe world, especially the US, is now pressuring Pakistan to introduce madrassa reforms to stop the jihadi culture,â Mr Bukahri quoted the president as saying. He said that the president also approved a proposal to form a board of Islamic scholars to end religious extremism from Pakistan by introducing seminary reforms. He also said that the speakers were interviewed before they spoke at the convention. Sources said that the speakers were also directed by the government that they should speak in the presidentâs favour and his anti-extremist polices and also support his modern vision of Islam. He said that those who agreed were allowed to speak.
Perv is usually more subtle than that...
Sources said that the government had tasked Haji Hanif Tayyab, the coordinator of the convention, to direct pro-government clerics. âThe government announced seminary reforms and formed the madrassa education board in 2001, but it failed to introduce any education reforms,â the sources said.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
02/21/2004 00:01 ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
