One in five Americans would likely pay to watch a televised execution of al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden if he were found guilty and sentenced to death ....
Bin Laden ... was named by 21 percent of those polled. Former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was named by 11 percent. Thirty-seven percent of those polled said they did not think executions should be televised.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
02/23/2004 10:16:38 PM ||
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I think Rantburgers should get together and bid for the popcorn franchise.
#4
I know I'd pay to watch. I'd take out a loan to participate.
Barring that, I'll join in the popcorn concession. :-p
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
02/23/2004 23:11 Comments ||
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#5
I wonder where they got their polling data. I'd figure more would like to see him die. One thing I'd like to see, is for whoever executes him to shove some Jimmy Dean pork sausage up his butt first.
Posted by: Danny ||
02/23/2004 23:27 Comments ||
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Twenty Percent of Americans Would Pay to Watch Bin Ladenâs Execution
Fifty percent said they'd do it personally for free.
Twenty percent said he ought to pay us.
And ten percent said the other 90% were Simply! Barbaric! Violence never solved anything!
Education Secretary Rod Paige Denounces Teachersâ Union As Being a âTerrorist Organizationâ
Education Secretary Rod Paige called the nationâs largest teachers union a "terrorist organization" Monday, taking on the 2.7-million-member National Education Association early in the presidential election year.
Well, he's toast...
Paigeâs comments, made to the nationâs governors at a private White House meeting, were denounced by union president Reg Weaver as well as prominent Democrats. Paige said he was sorry, and the White House said he was right to say so. The education secretaryâs words were "pathetic and they are not a laughing matter," said Weaver, whose union has said it plans to sue the Bush administration over lack of funding for demands included in the "No Child Left Behind" schools law. Paige said later in an Associated Press interview that his comment was "a bad joke; it was an inappropriate choice of words." President Bush was not present at the time he made the remark. "As one who grew up on the receiving end of insensitive remarks, I should have chosen my words better," said Paige, the first black education secretary. Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle of Wisconsin said Paigeâs words were, "The NEA is a terrorist organization." Lets see. It threatens school districts with strikes. Terrorizes parents with dire predictions if they donât get what they want...... Oh and protect of âold boyâ network of ineffective teachers. Not exactly a terrorist organization as we here in Rantburg define it... but close...
There's a difference between being a terrorist organization and being a group of self-serving hacks.
Paige said he had made clear to the governors that he was referring to the Washington-based union organization, not the teachers it represents. Weaver lied responded, "We are the teachers, there is no distinction." Yes there is.
Paigeâs Education Department is working to enforce a law that amounts to the biggest change in federal education policy in a generation. He has made no attempt to hide his frustration with the NEA, which has long supported Democratic presidential candidates. Asked if he was apologizing, Paige said: "Well, Iâm saying that Iâm sorry I said it, yeah." In a statement released to the media, Paige said he chose the wrong words to describe "the obstructionist scare tactics" of NEA lobbyists. The NEA may not be a terrorist organization.... but they are pretty close with their scare tactics.
Said White House spokesman Scott McClellan: "The comment was inappropriate and the secretary recognized it was inappropriate and quickly apologized."
The Dems won't leave it there, though...
Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, put it in stronger terms, accusing Paige of resorting "to the most vile and disgusting form of hate speech, comparing those who teach Americaâs children to terrorists." No... he called the NEA terrorists, not the teachers. There *is* a difference.
Hyperbole, anyone? It's made with real baloney and cheese...
Education has been a top issue for the governors, who have sought more flexibility from the administration on Bushâs "No Child Left Behind" law, which seeks to improve school performance in part by allowing parents to move their children from poorly performing schools. The NEA spends roughly $1 million a year lobbying in Washington. It is also a big political donor, mostly to Democrats. Translation: They are not teachers but parasites...
Gov. Jennifer Granholm of Michigan, a Democrat, said the comments were made in the context of "we canât be supportive of the status quo and theyâre the status quo. But whatever the context, it is inappropriate I know he wasnât calling teachers terrorists but to even suggest that the organization they belong to was a terrorist organization is uncalled for." Why not?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
02/23/2004 21:41 ||
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SSSSooooooooouuuiieeee
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/23/2004 21:50 Comments ||
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That's... sad.
Kermit must be puking his guts out right about now.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
02/23/2004 21:56 Comments ||
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#3
Woah! Welcome to Heifer City, Suha!
Do you think it's the guilt or those good French restaurants? My vote's for the chow. That PLO aid money buys nothing but the best...
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
02/23/2004 22:50 Comments ||
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#5
GOODGOSHAMITEY!......that is one fat ugly woman. Blacque jacques shellacque chirac might ought to rethink his latest position on face coverings.......for her at least.
Yep, the years spent as a "freedom fighter" have been rough on the poor thing. She's thin as a rail from all the deprivation. Poverty is a harsh taskmaster......
Posted by: Danny ||
02/23/2004 23:15 Comments ||
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Hissa Al-Massareir told the magazine, it was only when my mother died that (I saw her face).
Maybe those folks in Al-Kharj were onto something after all.
From the Spectator, registration required
âwants to make your flesh creep,â is the Fat Boyâs refrain in the Pickwick Papers. In Berlin last week, I was at a conference which the Fat Boy would have enjoyed. The subject was terror; the threat that weapons of mass destruction in terrorist hands would pose to the West, during the foreseeable future. One point impressed itself, instantly and forcefully. The proceedings were dominated by scientists, discussing anthrax, smallpox and chemical weapons in the most matter-of-fact manner. There was agreement that given the difficulty of acquiring plutonium or enriched uranium, the terrorist nuclear threat was still over the horizon. But as for all other threats, horizons contract and dangers close in. Everyone there seemed convinced of the inevitability of terrorist outrages.
Among the speakers, there was a recurrent contrast between the Americans and the British. When Americans were speaking, optimism kept on breaking through. It was as if they believed that there could be an answer, if only the authorities would find enough money. One American claimed that since 9/11, albeit including Afghanistan and Iraq, the federal government has spent $450 billion on security needs. He did not give the impression of regarding this as excessive. Indeed, it seemed as if he thought that another few hundred billion or so might provide an answer. All this gave one some insight into the reasons for the Bush administrationâs profligacy over the federal deficit.
By contrast, the British seemed prim, priggish â and realistic. Partly because we could not afford American levels of expenditure, there was a radically different emphasis. The Yanks wanted to outspend their foes; we preferred to out-think ours. We did not believe that we could drown them in gold.
We were also more pessimistic. One word, in a British expertâs presentation, seemed to summarise all this: resilience. The Americans gave the impression of believing that money could avert danger. The British had no such illusions. Our scientists of terror are working in a world in which everything is being done to counteract the threat. If the answer lay in vigilance, high technology and the practical applications of intelligence in both senses of the word, there could have been comfort in the Berlin proceedings. A lot of conscientious public servants are devoting their best efforts to protecting the rest of us.
But they would be the first to admit that this is not enough. Dispassionate academics, they did not want to assert more than they could prove, but their conclusions were inescapable. They expressed a breezy inevitability about the forthcoming onslaught. When it came to terrorism, the question was not whether but when.
Eliza Manningham-Buller, the director general of MI5, evidently agrees. In the gentlest possible way, she too has been trying to accustom her political masters to the inevitability of a major terrorist assault on the UK. Last Wednesday, I had lunch with an ambassador. I told him about the conference and the universal belief in not whether, but when. His reply was chilling: âYouâre the fifth person this week whoâs said that to me.â We looked out of a library window in St Jamesâs, across stucco and statues and the first spring blossom, to the towers of Whitehall and Westminster. We wondered if we were looking at a future slaughterhouse.
There are four reasons why we are exceptionally vulnerable to the new terror. The first is technological progress. With every passing year, it becomes easier to create terrible weapons. The second is hatred. For at least the next few decades, the Islamic world will produce very large numbers of fanatics who loathe the West and all its inhabitants. Reasons three and four follow on, and are closely linked. Most previous terrorist organisations had to acknowledge some restraining factors. ETA, the Basque separatist movement, was reluctant to kill large numbers of Basque civilians. The IRA suffered when it murdered women, children or ordinary Catholics. But this does not apply to Islamic terrorists. They regard the whole of the West as a free-fire zone.
If they should kill innocent Muslims, Allah will make amends once everyone arrives in Paradise. Moreover, unlike almost all previous terrorists, the Islamic zealots are happy to die. A ready availability of suicide bombers who are content to commit indiscriminate butchery among people whom they despise makes life hard indeed for the security services. Hence their grim and resolute pessimism.
Yet I thought that I had discovered one possible method of counterattack. In many countries, the illicit drug trade is the treasury of terror. The IRA and the Protestant paramilitaries both finance themselves from drug proceeds. So does al-Qaâeda. In Afghanistan today, German troops are protecting poppy-growers who merely want to live off the proceeds of the heroin traffic from the warlords who might plunder the poppy harvest in order to finance terrorists. According to a UN report published two years ago, the illegal drug trade has an annual turnover of $500 billion. Most of us distrust such rounded figures, but then again, most UN employees whom I have met are conscientious, hardworking individuals who would try to deal in facts rather than grotesque exaggerations. Anyway, even if they are overestimating by 100 per cent, a quarter of a trillion dollars would finance a hideous amount of terrorism and crime.
In 1939, confronting Europe, Britain faced a pair of dreadful adversaries. In moral terms, there was a strong case for arguing that Stalin was a worse leader than Hitler. But there was an even stronger case for insisting that the United Kingdom should not try to deal with too many enemies at once. Hitler was the immediate threat. It made sense, therefore, to ignore Stalinâs crimes and to do everything possible to appease him, preferably at other nationsâ expense.
When dealing with our latest foes, life is easier. We have to fight the terrorists, because they insist on fighting us. But as regards the drug dealers, there is no such necessity. We are not compelled to make war on them; it would be much easier to destroy them by legalising the drug trade on which their revenues depend.
The British government could not accomplish this on its own. If, in breach of several international conventions, we made it legal for adults to purchase drugs under strictly regulated conditions, this would have only a marginal effect on the illegal drug trade turnover. We would also be roundly condemned on all sides. But the logic of our position would be irresistible. Within 10 years of Britainâs deciding to legalise drugs, condemnation would give way to imitation.
I made those points in Berlin. Hardly anyone from the floor agreed with me. Afterwards, large numbers of fellow delegates came up to discuss the subject. Hardly any of them disagreed with me. They generally prefaced their remarks by saying: âI couldnât possibly say so in public, but Iâm glad someone had the courage....â
There is nothing admirable about taking drugs. Nor is there anything admirable about legalising the drug trade out of weakness. But we are weak: given the nature of the terrorist threat, and the difficulty of combating it, we are as weak in strategic terms as we were in 1939. We are entitled to limit our vulnerability and to shorten our front line.
We are not certain to defeat the terrorists, but we have to fight them. We have been fighting the drug traffickers for years, and are no nearer to defeating them. Let us therefore pick and choose our foes. By legalising drugs, we would make it easier to fight terrorists and we would increase our hope of winning, or at least of minimising our losses.
#1
I agree that legalizing drugs will take a lot of cash out the hands of terrorists and ordinary common criminals. It will also make the social effects of drug taking easier to manage.
#3
FWIW, I absolutely agree, please repost after the rollover. This is a calm rational realistic view that deserves a wide audience. I believe it correct, too, in observations and plausible courses of action. Thanx for the preview!
One of the most remarkable among the many and varied tribal customs that survive in Saudi Arabia is one that forbids anyone at all seeing a womanâs face. In parts of the Al-Kharj region, not even a womanâs husband and children are permitted to see her face uncovered.
In interviews with Al-Kharj residents, Sayidaty, a sister publication of Arab News, heard that often the first time even a daughter sees her motherâs face is after the motherâs death. âI always dreamt of seeing my motherâs face because I am a woman like her,â resident Hissa Al-Massareir told the magazine. âBut because of customs and traditions in the family, this was impossible. It was only when my mother died that my dream came true,â she added.
Al-Kharj native Muhammad Abdullah has never seen his wifeâs face. âWeâve been married for ten years and Iâve never seen it, not once,â he said. The Burqa - the garment that covers all of [her] head except the eyes - âis stuck to her face 24 hours a dayâ, he said. âThis is not for want of trying. One day I tried to remove the Burqa while she was asleep. She was furious. She left and went to her parentsâ house and returned only after I had signed an undertaking that I would never attempt to do such a thing again.â
Saud Al-Otaibi also found his wife fiercely loyal to the custom. âI tried to blackmail my wife by saying Iâd marry another woman if she didnât show me her face,â he said. But he was in for a surprise. âInstead of giving in she said, all right, marry someone else. And she set me up with a friend of hers who wasnât so strict in her adherence to the custom, and I married her.â
Others report that they have become so used to not seeing the faces of even close relatives that they would be shocked if they did. âI have never seen my motherâs faceâ, Ahmad Bkhait told the magazine. âI tried many times but was always rebuffed. By now Iâd think it weird if she suddenly unveiled her faceâŠ
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
02/23/2004 7:41:22 PM ||
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Al-Kharj native Muhammad Abdullah has never seen his wifeâs face. âWeâve been married for ten years and Iâve never seen it, not once,â he said.
Maybe she has a darned good reason why she wants her face covered. Who is in charge of Muhammad Abdullah's outfit anyway? Man, this stuff is twisted! Saudi Arabia is like a car with a bent frame. No matter what you do to it, and how much money you spend on it, it will always be a car with a bent frame. (/analogy)
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
02/23/2004 20:01 Comments ||
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'It was only when (fill in the blank) died that my dream came true.â
This type of thing seems to be true in a great number of Islamic endeavors. There is something fundamentally wrong with a society/religion when the only way to achieve happiness and acceptance is through your own death or the death of others.
Posted by: Scott ||
02/23/2004 20:04 Comments ||
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#3
Boggle. By pure dumb luck I was born in the US, in the lap of luxury (relatively speaking, of course), into the freedom of a Jacksonian family. Permitted to make any and all my own choices by a tradition of hardcore individualists. I think I'll join the Army of Very Lucky.
How pathetic are its captives and perverted is Islam.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
02/23/2004 20:39 Comments ||
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#5
AP - Aw man. When opportunity knocked, I wuz gone!
Now if they wanna send me Saoodi money and pay me on the same scale and let me work remotely (since it's Internet programming, it doesn't matter where I am, heh), well, I'm game. I LOVE taking their money and spending it in Thailand and the US. But they're control freaks - so it'll prolly never happen. S'okay. Sin City suits me, so far!
#6
âInstead of giving in she said, all right, marry someone else. And she set me up with a friend of hers who wasnât so strict in her adherence to the custom, and I married her.â
Dear Penthut:
I never thought it would happen to me. My wife would never do it, no matter how much I pestered her. Finally, one day, she found a friend of hers who was willing...
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
02/23/2004 21:03 Comments ||
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#7
Good grief. No wonder these sick puppies export violence.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
02/23/2004 21:23 Comments ||
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#8
Yep gimmee that ole time religion.....what a pathetic society and "religion".
#15
Imagine walking past your mother on the street and not knowing her from any other woman on earth. Those folks are wacky. And they're all a buncha damn fools for living that way all this time. What a bankrupt, morally backward way of life.
Posted by: Danny ||
02/23/2004 23:49 Comments ||
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#16
I doubt it states such a practice should be observed in the Koran - makes you wonder who invents these f***ed-up rules?? Mind you, looking at our fanatical friends, Abu Hamza et al in London, it's probably not too hard...
Posted by: Howard UK ||
02/24/2004 8:36 Comments ||
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#17
You ignorant people who have never lived in Saudi Arabia or befriended an Arab or Muslim should educate yourselves befroe you judge others.
I was born and lived in an Aramco(that would be Arabian American Oil Company , for you well read people) compound for 30 years and found the Arabs to be much more generous and open than many "westerners".
Would it be fair to judge all Americans and Christians by a few uneducated poor or radicalfundamentalists??
I think not!!
The amount of sheer hatred in your letters is appalling!!! I guess it's true that people fear what they do not understand.Maybe you can open your minds and let them grow and develop ,and shouldn't believe blindly all that you read in your mostly biased American news and sensational T.V.Try using your brain and making up your own mind.
And it's not a sad empyty society...you do not have the levels of depression and isolation there that you find here either.
Spanish police have arrested two Algerian men with alleged ties to the al-Qaida terror network, police said Monday. The men were identified as Khaleb Madani and Moussa Laouar. They were arrested in the southeastern cities of Torrevieja and Murcia on warrants issued by National Court Judge Guillermo Ruiz Polanco, a police spokesman said. Both are said to have worked for al-Qaida and are accused of falsifying documents, including passports, the spokesman said. The Web site of Madrid daily El Mundo said the two men have links to Ramzi Binalshibh, a Yemeni who was allegedly a key planner of the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States. He was arrested in September, 2002 in the Pakistan and now is in U.S. custory.
Interesting. A non-Garzon arrest...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
02/23/2004 19:36 ||
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accused of falsifying documents, including passports,
After the Caliphate⢠takes over the world, all identification documents will be false.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
02/23/2004 19:46 Comments ||
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Pakistan boosted operations in a lawless border region where Osama bin Laden may be hiding, preparing for a military campaign to capture Taliban and al-Qaida suspects who have taken shelter among local tribes, military officials said Sunday. Paramilitary forces stepped up patrols in the rugged and historically autonomous regions, guarding key roads and taking positions in sandbagged bunkers in this important town in tribal South Waziristan, near the border with Afghanistan.... Officials did not say when the operation would begin. "Initially we will use paramilitary troops (in the operation), but if needed we may call in army troops and helicopters," said Mohammed Azam Khan, a local government official. The operation will be the fourth of its kind since the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States, Pakistani security sources said. During the most recent one in January, suspected al-Qaida financier Ahmad Said al-Kadr was killed along with seven other suspects. ....
Pakistani sources said their operation will center on suspected Taliban and al-Qaida fighters who authorities believe have married Pakistani women and are living in the tribal areas. Authorities have spent weeks negotiating with local tribal leaders and are promising that those who surrender and lay down their weapons will not be prosecuted... Maj. Gen. Shaukat Sultan, Pakistanâs chief army spokesman insisted that any operation conducted in Pakistan would involve only Pakistanis â and no U.S. forces. Still, the beefed-up Pakistani army patrols that became visible Sunday angered local residents.... Though others rejected the notion that foreign terror suspects were hiding in their area, they said the military campaign could eliminate the perception their region was a haven for terrorists. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
02/23/2004 6:17:47 PM ||
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.... The government has tried to make voter participation seem higher than it really was by manipulating voting statistics. The Guardians Council declared that there are 43 million eligible voters according to "Kayhan" on 19 February, whereas the Interior Ministry said that there are 46,351,032 eligible voters, ....
Voters queued outside a mosque in east Tehranâs Nabavat Square for film crews, but the daily cited locals as saying that the "voters" were not locals and were brought in for the cameras. Some government employees said they had been ordered to vote and needed their identity cards stamped ....
Elections are sometimes preceded by reports about the existence of duplicate identification cards, which people must present to vote. With duplicate cards, individuals can vote more than once. Those who werenât residents of Tehran reportedly were given these ID cards so they could vote in the capital. Four years ago, the government stated that people who have forged ID cards, ID cards of dead people, and ID cards that do not belong to them could turn in the cards with no questions asked. Minister of Intelligence and Security Hojatoleslam Ali Yunesi on 18 February dismissed reports about the existence of 2 million extra cards, IRNA reported, and he added that disseminating such rumors is a prosecutable crime. State Registry official Abdullah Ansari denied in the 17 February "Iran" that a large number of new cards were issued recently.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
02/23/2004 6:09:40 PM ||
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Iran---Vote Early and Often!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
02/23/2004 18:58 Comments ||
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From Jihad Unspun
In Kamil Khan, a commander for Taliban has said that Zabul is completely under the control of Taliban.... The Commander said there are 450 Taliban men who have taken control of the province and are running the province .... and that by the grace of Allah, he is the governor of the province as of now.... Mullah Jalaluddin Haqqani has been appointed the Amir (Leader) of Shura Rehbad (Guiding Council) by the Taliban Council and is now in charge of all operations against Americans.... Mullah Haqqani has been appointed the deputy to Mullah Mohammad Omar.... Mullah Haqqani ... guided ... an operation that captured the provinces of Paktia, Khost and Paktika collectively from the Soviets in 1991. He will direct all Taliban operations and in the event of the arrest or martyrdom of Mullah Mohammad Omar, will guide the Taliban movement.... In Paktika, .... civilians in the area have begun moving to the Pakistani area of Wana in preparation for heavy fighting that is expected when the spring brings renewed fighting between Taliban and Americans.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
02/23/2004 6:02:45 PM ||
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Ah, the spring. The Taliban hunting season begins. No limit, no license required.
In the now classic Rantburg tradition of documenting animal attacks
Hazyview - The mangled body of an Mpumalanga villager was recovered on Sunday after he was attacked by an adult hippopotamus near the holiday town of Hazyview. Alfred Dubeâs body, with deep bite marks to his torso, was found trampled in a thicket over 10m from the Sabie River by distraught friends and neighbours. He was seized by the hippo on Friday morning while swimming across the strongly flowing river with two friends. "The men knew the river was home to crocodiles and hippo, but claim they had no other way of crossing. Dube was the second to swim across, and appears to have been seized almost exactly in the middle of the river," said regional police spokesperson Captain Benjamin Bhembe on Monday. "The [man] screamed and struggled, but was apparently unable to free himself from the large animalâs jaws. When he was dragged underwater, his horrified friends ran for help in opposite directions." Hazyview police station almost immediately dispatched a rescue team, but was unable to trace the missing man. "All we found were some very large blood stains on the river bank near the scene," said Captain Bhembe. Dubeâs family rallied friends and neighbours to continue the search over the weekend, with a small search party finally finding his body on Sunday evening. "Weâre still uncertain whether Dube was dragged into the dense thicket and then trampled, or whether he was trying to escape. The most significant injuries were two deep bite wounds in the back," said Captain Bhembe.
Although vegetarian, hippos are considered to be Africaâs most dangerous large game, and are reputed to kill more people every year than flesh-eating predators such as lion or crocodile. Conservationists explain that hippo are extremely territorial, and are very protective of their young. They are also short-sighted, and instinctively use their large jaws and 60cm teeth to crush canoes or chomp perceived threats. They are also regularly reported to use their weight of up to three tons to trample people who come between grazing hippos and the safety of water. The highest-profile killings in Mpumalanga include the trampling of tourist Annatjie Mienie at the Kruger River Lodge in 2002 just 10km from the site of Dubeâs death, and the death of Sabie River Sun security guard Mandla Msimango in 2001.
#1
and knowing how people are theey will probably go and kill every hippo in site for miles and miles all around. when it is peoples fallt for going in the hippos territory. the man is probly down river because hippos dont eat people.
#4
his horrified friends ran for help in opposite directions.
Although vegetarian, hippos are considered to be Africaâs most dangerous large game, (apart from a wounded buffalo), and are reputed to kill more people every year than flesh-eating predators, because they are vegetarian. I also think they are a lot cleverer than most would imagine. Don't piss them off, is rule No.1.
#5
the guide on the Disneyland Jungle Cruise said much the same thing
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/23/2004 17:49 Comments ||
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Some place.. somewhere on the web there is a description of a an alarmed Hippo moving at speed over ground droping it's abundant scat through it propeller like little tail. It's probably a rural legend.
#9
Here are some solutions besides killing all the hippos:
1. Start emptying 55 gallon drumps of a strong sedative into that part of the river
2. For goodness sake remove all the khat plants from the undergowth.
3. Have Nicoderm manufacture some of their patches in a cloth-yard size.
4. Make all the hippos wear daygrow orange vests so the villagers have a sporting chance.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
02/23/2004 21:00 Comments ||
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#10
"Well Doctor Gannon, the primary diagnosis is a severe case of 'Hungry Hungry Hippo'" "Damn!"
Posted by: Miss Gun ||
02/23/2004 21:42 Comments ||
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#11
Hey, muck4doo. If he ate chainey, would you be pissed?
Prince Hassanâs hope to visit Iraq soon is sparking fresh speculation the one-time heir to the Jordanian throne - unceremoniously dumped by his dying brother after three decades of grooming - is a prince in search of a kingdom. An aide to the prince denied the talk Monday, but such concerns have in the past forced Hassanâs nephew, King Abdullah II, to insist Jordanâs royal family has no designs on ruling neighboring Iraq. Last week, Hassan told Al-Arabiya satellite channel that he plans a visit to Baghdad "soon" to try to mediate political disputes among factions in the country. He did not say whom he would meet. The aide, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Hassan is waiting to be invited.
Asked what Hassan would do in Iraq, the aide said he "will try to facilitate negotiations among the different sects. He will try to mediate between the Sunnis and the Shiites to restore peace and stability in Iraq." He rejected any idea the prince ultimately hopes to restore Hashemite rule to Iraq, with himself as king, as "absolute nonsense." Concern about Hassanâs ambitions has cropped up before, most notably with his surprise appearance at a 2002 London meeting of Iraqi dissidents plotting to topple Saddam Hussein. Three months later, King Abdullah was forced to publicly, if gently, rebuke his 56-year-old uncle. "I am the head of the Hashemite dynasty and I say very clearly that this family has no ambitions to regain leadership in Iraq," Abdullah said. Foreign leadership cannot be imposed, he added, and "if there was any member of this family who thinks in a different way, then that member only represents himself."
Hassan had been groomed for the Jordanian throne for 34 years until 12 days before his brother, King Hussein, died of cancer in 1999. Hussein accused Hassan of a power grab by trying to dismiss the kingâs loyalists in the army and cited policy differences in appointing his son, Abdullah, as his successor.
On Monday, Jordanian government officials declined comment on Hassanâs plans, but indicated that if he visited Iraq, he would be acting on his own. In Baghdad, an Iraqi official said the prince has not been in contact with the Iraqi Governing Council and no plans to invite him were under consideration by any Iraqi authority. An Iraqi political activist said the prince has been meeting in Jordan with some Iraqi tribal and religious leaders, trying to persuade them to support his involvement in resolving Iraqâs political conflict. "He does not tell them openly that he aspires to a leading role, like being a king of Iraq, but this is what everybody feels when they meet him," said the activist, who is now in Baghdad after long being based in Jordan. Since being shunted aside as crown prince in 1999, Hassan has kept a low profile in Jordan. The Oxford graduate of oriental studies has focused on intellectual pursuits, including chairing an Amman-based think tank, called the Arab Thought Forum, and acting as a moderator for the New York-based World Conference on Religions for Peace.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/23/2004 3:47:18 PM ||
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I kind of like the idea of Iraq being ruled by a King. It would solve a lot of problems vis-a-vis 'transfer of power.' How about we name him Viceroy, Lord, Royal Protector? He does come from one of the more moderate Arab states.
Unfortunately, we donât get a name, but this could be Abdul Rahman Yassin, the only member of the 1993 WTC cell still free who was living in Iraq under a pension for Saddam before the war and has reportedly come out of retirement to fight the US in the immediate aftermath.
The top bomb-maker for Abu Musab al-Zarqawi has been killed in Fallujah, Fox News learned Monday. The bomb-making lieutenant, whose name wasnât released, died in a gun battle at a terrorist safe house late last week, military sources told Fox. The military officerâs death is significant because Al-Zarqawi is the man believed to have masterminded a number of recent attacks against the coalition in Iraq.
He was a military officer?
Civil affairs soldiers were passing out election pamphlets in Fallujah, just west of Baghdad, when someone began shooting from a nearby house, sources told Fox. Thatâs when Task Force 121, part of U.S. Special Forces, was called in. After a short gun battle, two people were killed â including the Zarqawi lieutenant and one of the soldiers passing out the brochures. A handful of others were captured. Inside the terrorist safe house, sources said the military found a passport belonging to Zarqawi, fake identification and other information. The passport could possibly be an intel goldmine if itâs the same one he used to get into Iraq in 2002 under Saddam Hussein. Zarqawi has been wanted in Jordan ever since the Millennium Plot and thatâs his name (the real one or his more familiar nom de guerre) on the passport it means that somebody in Sammyâs regime knew damned well who he was but didnât have any problems about him entering the country - and from Iran, of places.
In another weekend raid â this one initiated by American troops over the weekend in Baghdad â a detailed map of U.S. headquarters turned up in the Iraqi capital. The sources said a terrorist cell is believed to have been using the map of Camp Victory to plan an attack there. Sources told Fox they suspect an Iraqi contractor is helping terrorists, and theyâve launched a full investigation into who the culprit might be. We knew the insurgents had moles, it should be interesting to see what was being planned.
Meanwhile, defense officials say that a copy of a letter believed to have been penned by Zarqawi has turned up in Saudi Arabia. The copy was discovered with Saudi financiers whom Defense officials believe were being solicited to fund terrorist operations inside Iraq. Really? Now ainât that a coincidence to have this show up in the Magic Kingdom as well. No doubt al-Hawali and Co received a firm talking to by Prince Nayef about being more careful when they open their mail.
The letter is significant because of its message to the terrorist networkâs command structure in the mountains along the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan calling for help in Iraq. Defense officials told Fox they are convinced that there is a communications link â a sharing of tactics â among Al Qaeda-tied groups in Iraq and Afghanistan. In another find that could prove the Afghanistan-Iraq connection, three Afghans were arrested over the weekend as they entered Iraq from Turkey carrying tens of thousands in U.S. dollars and large quantities of Iranian currency, military sources told Fox. Looks like al-Qaeda is sending Zarqawi cash, even though theyâve told him not to target Shiâites. The part about Iranian currency is interesting, it sounds like al-Qaeda either got a hand-out at the recent terrorfest in Tehran or theyâve transferred all the gold that was smuggled out of Afghanistan into hard currency for the purposes of moving it. Wonder which banks the money came from?
American soldiers have recovered millions of U.S. dollars in recent weeks inside Iraq â crisp, new bills that officials believe came directly from an unidentified bank.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/23/2004 3:22:05 PM ||
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"Civil affairs soldiers were passing out election pamphlets in Fallujah, just west of Baghdad, when someone began shooting from a nearby house, sources told Fox."
Didn't get the memo on "not being seen", I guess...
#2
...or he thought it was those d*mn Witnesses again...
Posted by: Carl in N.H ||
02/23/2004 15:30 Comments ||
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"Civil affairs soldiers were passing out election pamphlets in Fallujah, just west of Baghdad, when someone began shooting from a nearby house, sources told Fox."
Wow! I remember how annoying canvassing neighborhoods with campaign literature was, but this takes the prize!
Oh, and if it is Yassin, then Bush should trumpet it as "we caught the man who escaped from the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center, a man Saddam Hussein sheltered for a decade".
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
02/23/2004 16:14 Comments ||
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The big question is why was TF121 readily available to cover down on a bunch of CA guys?. The local QRF should have handled that gun fight so I think maybe there was a fishing trip in the works when the dummies took the bait.
Edited for brevity.
A little after 3 P.M., the principal of the Experimental School in the center of Jerusalem, Uri Geva, assembled the 55 students in the graduating class, the teachers, and dozens of parents. "Weâre still waiting for official notice," he began, finding it difficult to continue. For the friends of Benaya Jonathan Zukerman, 18, it was enough. The principal continued: "The whole time we hoped and we prayed, and now we all need to be strong. We lost..." He stopped again. He later said that this was the first time he had to tell students about the death of a friend, and that there was no right way to do so.
When news hit of the suicide bombing on bus No. 14, at around 8:30 A.M., Jerusalem schools began the standard procedure of dealing with terror attacks that take place in the morning: homeroom teachers went from class to class, checking who was absent and trying to reach them on the phone. In the Hebrew Gymnasia high school in the Rehavia neighborhood, concern was particularly strong: about half of the students live in the south of the city and travel to school on bus No. 14. Many of them begin class at 9 A.M. After about half an hour, it became clear that the concern was justified: about 10 of the schoolâs students had traveled on the bus. The school defined two of them as missing; one student, Liz Monteleo, was located later in serious condition in the hospital. An additional 11 high school students from throughout Jerusalem were wounded in yesterdayâs attack, and dozens of other youths witnessed it.
Meanwhile, the other missing Gymnasia student was 12th grader Lior Azulai, 18 . He was killed. About two-and-a-half hours after the attack, the 12th-graders gathered in the auditorium and the principal, David Gal, said: "I have a difficult announcement." "They took it hard," he said. "I was barely able to get out a sentence. I told them this was the hardest day of my job."
Just three-and-a-half weeks ago, another bus bombing took place on one of the capitalâs main thoroughfares, Gaza Street, a few hundred meters from the Gymnasia. An eighth-grade student was seriously wounded. Heâs still hospitalized, paralyzed in his lower body. About six months ago, in the terror attack in Jerusalemâs Cafe Hillel, the father of one of the students was killed. In the downtown pedestrian mall six years ago, two students were killed.
In the Experimental School, they werenât worried about Benaya Zukerman. He hadnât arrived in class, but he lived in Ein Kerem - there was no reason to think he was riding bus No. 14. Only as the hours passed and the school couldnât reach him on his cell phone did someone remember that Banya had planned to collect his driverâs license from the state license office in Talpiot, in the south of the city. School officials couldnât find him in the hospital, and the 12th-grade homeroom teacher, Giora Segel, gathered the students. "I gave them a short and sad speech," he said. "I told them we have very grave concerns." And we should reward the people who cause this with their own country?
Posted by: Dar ||
02/23/2004 3:14:36 PM ||
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Dar, This *is* very sad and condolences to the students and friends of those who's lives were lost.
This is the reason the wall is needed. While the mainstream media cries about Palistinian students being unable to go (or having to cross a checkpoint) to school because of the wall these students are unable to live period. Not only will they not go to school but they will not be able to live, love, marry, laugh, cry, have children, etc.... they are fucking dead -- forever.
I don't see this reported on BBC/CNN/American networks.....
In a move to attract Saudi students, the Canadian Embassy will hold two seminars to introduce Canada as a destination for Saudi students and also as a source for contract training for government and private sector organizations. Canadian Ambassador Roderick Bell said the educational seminars would be held in Jeddah and Riyadh on Feb. 23 and Feb. 25 respectively. âThe seminars are significant since in 2003 Saudi Arabia sent over 650 new students to study in Canada,â the ambassador pointed out. âThe most popular study choices included signing up for classes you donât intend to take English as a second language (ESL) courses, business, engineering and medical training,â he said. These are in addition to specialized professional programs. Referring to his countriesâ educational system, the ambassador said: âCanadaâs high quality educational system and lack of security checks open society make it a world-class destination. Saudi students have discovered that Canada provides many excellent choices for advanced studies, and there is a open southern border study option suitable for every teacher.â A number of Saudi students who skipped left the US after Sept. 11, 2001 are looking to Canada as a possibility for safe haven higher education, base of operations professional courses and weapons training. So, howâs that fence coming?
Posted by: Steve ||
02/23/2004 2:58:27 PM ||
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another reason to tighten security on the canadian border.
Posted by: Dan ||
02/23/2004 16:18 Comments ||
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Wow. That CN Tower sure is tall, isn't it, Mahmoud?
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/23/2004 17:16 Comments ||
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Somebody start a volunteer program to build the northern fence. I'll get there, even if I have to walk. Ditto for a southern fence, but that one should be double, and mined.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
02/23/2004 19:02 Comments ||
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Whichever of our northern border states deny their citizens their 2nd Amendment rights (NY & Washington, this at least means you) better clean up their acts, or the jihadis will get as far as Virginia before the citizens start killing them.
And make no mistake, we will.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
02/23/2004 23:03 Comments ||
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No sh*t, Sherlock
Libya succeeded in making weapons-grade plutonium before announcing it would abandon its efforts to build a nuclear bomb, United Nations inspectors said yesterday. A report issued by the Keystone KopsInternational Atomic Energy Agency discloses the full scale of Tripoliâs ambitions to build a bomb before Col Gaddafiâs change of heart. Libyaâs nuclear experiments included the separation of plutonium, albeit "in very small quantities", it said. As part of a deal in December to end its international isolation, Col Gaddafi has allowed American and British experts, backed by international inspectors, to begin dismantling its secret facilities to build weapons of mass destruction.
Libya had been able to buy many of the components needed to build a centrifuge to enrich uranium from the nuclear Walmart "supermarket" operated by the Pakistani scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan. The IAEA report confirmed that Libya had also bought enriched uranium. This was flown to Libya from Pakistan, tap, tap... nope
said a police report citing the alleged chief financier of the nuclear black market, Buhary Syed Abu Tahir. According to Deputy DawgMohammed ElBaradei, the head of the IAEA, between the early 1980s until the end of last year, "Libya imported nuclear material and conducted a wide variety of [clandestine] nuclear activities." The report will be discussed next month by the agencyâs board of governors.
"More port, governor?"
"Why yes, thank you, governor."
"Governor? I'm bored."
"Maybe we should form a bored of governors, eh, governor?"
Countries seeking a covert nuclear programme usually take the route of uranium enrichment because the hundreds of components needed for centrifuges are mostly "dual use" and can be bought from international suppliers. In contrast, the plutonium route requires a large reactor. Nevertheless, Libyan scientists clearly wanted to keep their options open and learned the chemistry required to separate plutonium from uranium that has been irradiated.
#1
Do you think ElBaradei's completely blind, or can he make out indistinct shapes and objects? Should we require all centrifuge components to have Braille labels?
Posted by: Matt ||
02/23/2004 15:24 Comments ||
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I seem to remember that after the Libya thing broke, the US and Brits said Libya was quite far along. In came the IAEA to toss water on that claim by saying their inspectors think the Libyans were not even close. Now they say he was really close to putting one together. The world needs to get rid of this cat and put someone else in his place. My preference is a Hawkish American, failing that, I'll take a non-leftist Brit or Aussie. No Mohammeds near nukes!! and I care not how anyone feels.
#3
Do you think ElBaradei's completely blind, or can he make out indistinct shapes and objects?
I suspect Baradei was a salesman in Khan's network. Who better to identify potential clients?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
02/23/2004 16:15 Comments ||
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still cannot believe the dems are pushing for the UN to handle these types of issues. If 12 years of being spun in circles by saddam proved anthing - it is that the UN is not in our best interests and cannot handle these types of issues without firm resolve by the west.
Posted by: Dan ||
02/23/2004 16:21 Comments ||
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At a minimum, change the title for the head of the IAEA from "Director General" to "Le Grande Magoo"...
#7
Director General" to "Le Grande Magoo"...
now thats funny....
Posted by: Dan ||
02/23/2004 19:45 Comments ||
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Ship, it sort of makes me nervous that Libya was working the plutonium route. My understanding is that pursuing the plutonium option finacially wasteful unless you have a source for reactor rods. Libya doesn't have a reactor, to my knowledge. Whose were they planning on using? I hope they didn't get the starter material from Los Alamos.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
02/23/2004 21:12 Comments ||
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EFL
The disfigured body of a young man was found in northern Honduras along with a message threatening the Honduran president, police said Sunday. The discovery marks the 10th such slaying apparently carried about by gangs protesting a government crackdown. Guatemalaâs new president received a similar threat last month, warning him that if his government continued to target gangs, "more people will die." A bold prediction in a world of mere mortals.
Honduran authorities said three local prostitutes discovered the body of the latest victim Saturday in the city of San Pedro Sula, 110 miles north of the capital, Tegucigalpa. Investigators estimated the victim was between 18 and 21 years of age. His assailants had gouged out his eyes, cut off his ears and nose and removed his heart, police spokesman Ivan Mejia said. His head was wrapped in a red shirt and stuffed inside a plastic garbage bag. Must have entered a homocidal rage after a Three Stooges film festival.
Attached to the body was a threatening message aimed at President Ricardo Maduro. Police would not reveal its contents. The threats appear to be a backlash against Maduroâs crackdown on gangs in the past six months. Last year, the Honduran Congress followed the presidentâs recommendation to outlaw the youth gangs and established prison penalties of up to 12 years for their members. More than 1,000 gang members have been detained. In the first stiff prison punishments imposed since the law was passed, a legal tribunal on Saturday sentenced two gang members to 86 years each for killing three people, wounding two others and robbing a house in the capital. The Honduran government has warned that gang members angered by the new penalties have targeted public officials. Yeah, this time we whacked a punk kid, but next time it could be the Chief of Public Works as we have all of the local prostitues under surveilance.
A message attached to the body of a victim found in January read, "Happy New Year to President Maduro. This is another challenge ... and the next victims will be police and journalists or some punk kid in prostitute country." Also in January, two weeks after his inauguration, Guatemalan President Oscar Berger received a similar message, attached to the body of a dead man. "If you continue going after gang members, more people will die," the message said. "Mara Salvatrucha," the name of one of Central Americaâs fiercest gangs, was written on the back of the dead body. How did a gang of punks write all that with a spray-paint can? Was it punctuated properly?
Shortly after taking office, Berger pledged to crack down on the gangs. El Salvador also passed a law criminalizing gang membership last year. Since then, the gangs -- called maras after an ant that devours everything in its path -- have moved into Mexico, where they often are accused of drug trafficking and robbing Central American migrants. Police in southern Chiapas state, where many of the gang members are concentrated, on Saturday announced the capture of three Mara Salvatrucha members. Moving north. Great.
Also Saturday, the president of Mexicoâs national human rights commission, Jose Luis Soberanes said his group is working with national migration and Interior Department officials to prevent gang attacks on the Central American migrants. Maybe Jose will provide migrants with large drums of lard to rub all over their bodies. Thwarted, the permanent pen-wielding assasins will seek victims that will be easier to write on.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
02/23/2004 2:38:46 PM ||
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there have been much success ina number of cities with special programs desined for youths to fight gang violences. midnight basketball is one. they worked very well till chainey take all the money away so they can go shoting each other again! they should try these programs in these country as their is no chainey to do that their.
#3
Muckypoo, do you have a link or a cite to back up your claim that the Vice President took away funding for Tegucigalpa's youth midnight basketball program?
#4
SF, he'll get back to you on that link. I think he just zipped his stuff into his zipper. It might be a while.
I think the guy is like the web version of a deranged homeless person - spouting paranoia while rummaging the dumpster for a can of Krylon that still has enough left to send him to happy land again.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
02/23/2004 20:48 Comments ||
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Yeah, boys. It does appear that mucky has...issues.
#6
Just a question, what exactly does "midnight baseball" have to do with rebels? These are not middle class suburbanite kids with issues. They are scum who place their countries needs below that of their gangs. What the President of Honduras has done is a good thing for the people. Sentencing gangmembers for the crimes they've committed is a step in a long walk toward a better Hondo. Sadley this has come at the price many innocent lives. Including the lives of some in the United States. Recently there has been an escalation in gang related activities invoving hispanic perpetratures in the U.S. This includes robberies, shootings, and lootings. The suspects of a majority of these crimes were Hondurans. It's strange when you here about it, but after connecting the stories you see the image. Gangs are being forced out of their countries and have found ways into ours.
Or maybe it's just coincidence and I'm looking for a conspiracy.
EFL
Eight people claiming to be North Korean asylum-seekers were inside the compound of a German government-run school in Beijing on Monday, a German official said. The incident came two days before North Korean, U.S. and other diplomats were to meet in Beijing for six-nation talks on tensions over the Northâs nuclear program. (Which actually would have been relevant had Germany been one of the six parties.)
The German school was the target of a series of asylum bids by North Koreans about 18 months ago. In September 2002, a group of 15 men, women and children climbed over the wall and spent the night there before being allowed to leave for South Korea. The German official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, would say only that the latest group was inside the school compound. He wouldnât say when or how they entered or give any details about them. Obviously more disciple of Juche who want to spread the news of the wonders of of Kim throughout the world.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
02/23/2004 2:23:08 PM ||
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How come no one ever tries to enter the French compound? Oh that right, they are looking for FREEDOM.
Seven people have been killed in southern Iran after sporadic violent clashes followed the announcement of results from Fridayâs controversial parliamentary elections. Four people were killed in clashes on Saturday with police in Izeh in southwestern Iran, a provincial official said. âDemonstrators wanted to attack the prefecture but police prevented them. Then they attacked the town hall, and police opened fire and used tear gas,â the deputy governor of Khuzestan province was quoted as saying. âThe deputy elected, Seyed Hadi Tabatabai, is safe and sound,â added that the official, whose name was not given. He explained the protestors were contesting the results that saw the conservative candidate win. Another source told the agency that the mobs were venting their anger over alleged irregularities in the polls. Thirty people were arrested, he said.
"What kind of irregularities?"
"Dead people. Lots of 'em. It was really scary until I saw Grandmaw!"
In Firouzabad in the southern province of Fars, a local politician said that âthree or four peopleâ were also killed and six others injured there on Saturday after similar protests. The source said the victorious conservative candidate there raised suspicions after winning an âabnormally high number of votesâ.
"How high's 'abnormally high'?"
"'Bout 212 percent of the entire population of the province."
Press reports on Sunday has pointed to violence in other areas of the country, but no further details on other trouble spots were immediately available.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
02/23/2004 14:18 ||
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Jennie, did you remember to salt the popcorn?
Posted by: Fred ||
02/23/2004 14:18 Comments ||
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Fred, for items like this, we all need to switch to potassium chloride. I'll be better for our blood pressure.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
02/23/2004 14:22 Comments ||
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Ack, I meant: it'll be better for our blood pressure. I saw this just a fraction of a second after hitting "post."
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
02/23/2004 14:23 Comments ||
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Phil---Iran is like a Zen koan. You are trying to rationally understand something irrational. When you break through and obtain enlightenment, your blood pressure will return to normal and you can salt your popcorn the way you wish.
This also applies to statements made by Dems in the throes of Bush-Hate Syndrome.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
02/23/2004 14:51 Comments ||
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Wussies. Here in Chicago we know how to make the dead vote and make all the numbers look j-u-u-u-u-s-t right.
Posted by: Steve White ||
02/23/2004 18:27 Comments ||
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So they had their election. Looks like everything worked out too.
By the time the rotation finishes in May, the Pentagon will have shipped nearly 450,000 tons of equipment to the Iraqi theater and shipped home even more -- 700,000 tons. And 10,000 pounds of bananas.
Commanders in Kuwait have anointed several "czars" to oversee thorny details. One commands a fleet of 400 private buses that can be seen on the highways ferrying U.S. troops from airports and seaports to local bases. The "wash rack czar" oversees the 250 car wash stations that scrub and disinfect each military vehicle before it gets shipped back to the United States or Germany. The "bed down czar" makes sure there are cots available for each soldier passing through Kuwait. All hail the TP Czar.
In Iraq, the Army completed the rotation of its two largest logistical units in 10 days, even as those units operated convoys across the region. The Armyâs 13th Corps Support Command, with about 15,000 members now based north of Baghdad, just replaced the Germany-based 3rd Corps Support Command. Thatâs a whole lot of military supporters.
The military moves its hardware using tracking systems perfected in the corporate world -- satellite tracking beacons and radio frequency identification tags that transmit short-range signals to scanners. I wish domestic airlines would do the same with my luggage.
Rotation sideshows are playing out at Iraqâs Persian Gulf port of Umm Qasr, where each of the four outgoing Army divisions will ship about 800 shipping containers; and at the U.S. air base in Incirlik, Turkey, to where thousands of U.S. troops are being flown on their way out. The flights to Incirlik are Turkeyâs first visible cooperation in the war in Iraq since refusing in March to allow U.S. troops to stage an invasion from Turkish territory.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
02/23/2004 2:16:52 PM ||
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Can you list "Wash Rack Czar" in the "Occupation" block on your tax return?
I always thought it would be cool to list my occupation as "Warlord." But then I'd have to get henchmen and terrified villagers and stuff. Not really worth the effort.
#6
Warlord company? Pah! I'm trying to get a necromancer license from Bloomington, Illinois.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
02/23/2004 16:18 Comments ||
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I know I pointed this out yesterday, but
if you're serious, Seafarious http://www.villainsupply.com is the place to go for all your lair and henchman needs.
Law enforcement and intelligence agencies told Daily Times on Sunday that they had failed to break the militant extremist Hizbul Tahrir (HT) network, which continues to operate with impunity because of its complexity. HT was banned on November 15, 2003 but it continues to sponsor study groups and to distribute pamphlets to the public every Friday. âOnly two HT men are on the surface; Naveed Butt and Taimur Butt, and both are missing. We have tried very hard to find the printing press from where HTâs pamphlets and booklets were published but we havenât succeeded so farâ, a police official told Daily Times asking not to be named. He law enforcement agencies had even failed to locate HT offices or its headquarters.
Law enforcement agencies are particularly incompetent this week, aren't they?
However, sources said, they had made a list of ten HT workers and they could be arrested for continuing activities of a banned organization, but they were all underground. âNaveed Butt addressed the Lahore Bar Council last month and we could have arrested him, but we failed because he disappeared soon after his addressâ, sources said.
"Then I looked around me and — thfffft! — he was gone!"
The HT is an international organization of Arab origin exported to Pakistan in 1999, when the British-born Kashmiris Naveed Butt and Taimur Butt began operations in Pakistan. The HT wants to make the world a caliphate and it is searching for a state from where to establish one. Sources said the HT was outlawed in the Arab states long ago and it shifted its centre to London, from where it established branches in 40 countries. He said the HT considered militancy for the establishment of a caliphate forbidden, or haraam.
They don't appear to consider funneling warm bodies to jihadi organizations forbidden, however...
Once describing the methods HT uses, Mr Butt had said, âeither approach five or six powerful people of a country and convince them about the caliphate system, or prepare the public to force these top people to bring about a changeâ. He said the HT was applying both methods in Pakistan and expected a caliphate in Pakistan soon. The HT began operations in the Central Asian states soon after they gained independence, sources said, and it became popular quickly despite the statesâ sternness against the group. The purpose of establishing HT in Pakistan was to protect the network in the Central Asian states, while it also thinks that Pakistan fertile ground for a caliphate. Sources said the government had banned the HT because it was trying to make inroads into the Pakistan Army and its workers tried to distribute party literature in the Army explaining its agenda. Mr Butt predicted in an interview with Daily Times on October 15, 2003 that his organization might be banned because âwe are not a state tool and not working for the intelligence agencies. Most of the banned jihadi organizations still operate and continue to print material in which they openly target India and America, but we just criticize policies and promote the idea of a caliphate, which is the alternative system for the worldâ.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
02/23/2004 14:10 ||
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i don't think the sultan [mushareff] is going to take too kindly to a power sharing arrangement with the caliph--even in the 11th century the caliph was a loser to the seljuk rulers--these guys gotta read more history or get a better game plan
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI ||
02/23/2004 17:29 Comments ||
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Butthead: "either approach five or six powerful people of a country and convince them about the caliphate system, or prepare the public to force these top people to bring about a change"
Beavis: Those are two really cool plans, Butthead. One of them might work!
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
02/23/2004 18:51 Comments ||
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PRESS RELEASE BY INSPECTOR-GENERAL OF POLICE IN RELATION TO INVESTIGATION ON THE ALLEGED PRODUCTION OF COMPONENTS FOR LIBYAâS URANIUM ENRICHMENT PROGRAMME This is looks like the full debriefing of BSA Tahir, he spilled his guts, too good to edit. INTRODUCTION
On the evening of 10 Nov 2003, two intelligence representatives from the United States and Britain, i.e. the CIA and the MI6, met the Director of the Special Branch, Bukit Aman. The focus of their discussion was the ongoing investigation related to the international network that is suspected of being involved in the transfer of nuclear technology to third countries. Both the representatives asked for the co-operation of the Special Branch to prevent the spread of nuclear technology. They also provided information relevant for joint action.
INFORMATION
2. Among the information passed are the following:
2.1 Involvement of a nuclear scientist in Pakistan
Alleged that a Pakistani nuclear arms expert was involved in the "onward proliferation of Pakistani nuclear technology to third countries, notably Libya."
2.2 BSA TAHIR
Alleged that BSA Tahir, a Sri Lankan businessman based in Dubai was a trusted and close confidante of the arms expert and was actively involved in supplying centrifuge components for Libyaâs uranium-enrichment programme; and
2.3 SCOMI PRECISION ENGINEERING SON BHD (SCOPE
Alleged that Tahir, who was involved in the business of SCOPE had used the company to produce components for the centrifuge unit for the uranium enrichment programme. However, investigations have revealed that the components, on their own, cannot form a complete centrifuge unit. In this context, it has to be noted that SCOPE is a subsidiary of SCOMI GROUP BHD, i.e. a company involved in the petroleum services industry. As a subsidiary, SCOPE is also involved in precision engineering services, which involves the production of components for a variety of equipments including parts for cars, petroleum and gas.
3. In relation to this, the Special Branch was also informed that on 4 Oct 2003, a ship named BBC China, owned by a German company, was examined in the port of Taranto, Italy, where 5 containers bound for Libya were confiscated because they were believed to contain components related to the Libyan uranium enrichment programme. The components were said to have been packed in wooden boxes with the SCOPE logo on them. With this development a request was made to assist with the investigations related to the activities of Tahir and his connection with the Pakistani scientist in view of the "intense interest in this matter at the-highest levels of the US/UK governments". â
4. Following this development, the police launched an investigation to find out the real situation and itâs implication to the interest and security of Malaysia.
BRIEFING
5. Pursuant to this investigation, the Prime Minister was briefed on 13 Nov 2003. He ordered a detailed and transparent investigation to be expedited. At the same time, the Inspector-General of Police was informed. He gave an order to continue with the investigation.
POLICE INVESTIGATION
6. In conducting this investigation, the Special Branch, took into consideration the above-mentioned allegations and focused on the following aspects:-
6.1 The allegation that Tahir had played the role of a middle man in supplying certain centrifuge components from Malaysia for Libyaâs uranium-enrichment programme;
6.2 The allegation against SCOPE; and
6.3 Other related information.
7. As a responsible member state of the United Nations (UN), it is Malaysiaâs responsibility to investigate and inform on any activity, which involves nuclear proliferation. In relation to this, Malaysia is co-operating with the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), an agency under the UN, which is responsible for the enforcement of rules and regulations controlling nuclear weapons under the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT). This is to ensure that the investigations are thorough and free of doubt. In relation to this, two preliminary reports were given to the Department of Safeguards, IAEA in Vienna through the co-operation and help of the Director-General of the Atomic Energy Licensing Board (AELB) Malaysia and an officer with Malaysiaâs Institute of Nuclear Technology Research (MINT). One complete report will also be handed to IAEA to assist the agency to carry out investigations on individuals or companies outside MALAYSIA suspected to be involved in related activities.
BACKGROUND OF BSA TAHIR
8. BSA Tahir, whose full name is BUHARY SEYED ABU TAHIR, is 44 years old and a citizen of Sri Lanka and a businessman based in Dubail. BSA Tahir and his brother own a company i.e. SMB GROUP, Dubai where he is the Group Managing Director. In 1998, BSA Tahir married a Malaysian woman and gained permanent residency in Malaysia. SMB GROUP started as a family company in 1980 and is now involved in the computer and IT fields. Generally, BSA Tahir spends time overseeing his businesses in Dubai and only returns to Malaysia, once in a while, to visit his wifeâs family or look for business opportunities.
9. Upon his fatherâs death in 1985, BSA Tahir took over the management of SMB and in the process visited Pakistan and succeeded in getting contracts to sell air conditioning equipment to Khan Research Laboratory (KRL). During this time, BSA Tahir became acquainted with the Pakistani nuclear expert. At the same time, BSA Tahir got to know middlemen from other countries, including Europe, who were involved in supplying uranium centrifuge components on behalf of the Pakistani nuclear expert.
MODUS OPERANDI
10. Investigation showed that the supply of components by middlemen was carried out in a discreet manner and involved suppliers from other countries to obscure the sources of the components. Some of the suppliers were believe to be aware that these components could be for uranium enrichment centrifuges. Generally these suppliers mostly from Europe, were those who had had dealings with the nuclear expert since the 1980s, at a time when Pakistan was developing its nuclear technology. There were a number of individuals and companies which supplied the components but were unaware of the implications because some of the components were similar to components used in oil drilling, water treatment and equipment for several other general use.
EARLY INVOLVEMENT - SUPPLY OF CENTRIFUGE TO IRAN
11. During investigations, BSA Tahir alleged that his involvement with the nuclear expert started sometime in 1994/1995. That year, the latter had asked BSA Tahire to send two containers of used centrifuge units from PAKISTAN to IRAN. BSA Tahir organized the transshipment of the two containers from DUBAI to IRAN using a merchant ship owned by a company in Iran. BSA Tahir said the payment for the two containers of centrifuge units, amounting to about USD$3 million was paid in UAE Dirham currency by the Iranian. The cash was brought in two briefcases and kept in an apartment that was used as a guesthouse by the Pakistani nuclear arms expert each time he visited Dubai
BACKGROUND TO THE INVOLVEMENT WITH LIBYA
12. From what BSA TAHIR could recall, Libya had contacted the nuclear arms expert in 1997 to obtain help and expertise in the field of uranium enrichment centrifuge. â Several meetings between the arms ⢠expert and representatives from Libya took place :-
12.1 Meeting in ISTANBUL sometime in 1997. During this meeting, the nuclear arms expert was accompanied by BSA Tahir while Libya was represented by MOHAMAD MATUQ MOHAMAD and another person known only as KARDVI. During this meeting, the Libyans asked the arms expert to supply centrifuge units for LIBYAâS nuclear programme; and
12.2 Between 1998 to 2002. During this time, several meetings were held between the arms expert, accompanied by BSA Tahir and the Libyans headed by MOHAMAD MATUQ MOHAMAD. One discussion was held in Casablanca, MOROCCO and several discussions in Dubai.
13. As a result of these meetings, the following progress were made:-
13.1 Around 2001, the nuclear arms expert informed BSA Tahir that a ) certain amount of UF6 (enriched uranium) was sent by air from Pakistan to Libya. BSA Tahir could not remember the name of > the Pakistani Airline which transported the uranium ;
13.2 Year 2001/2002. The nuclear arms expert informed BSA Tahir that a certain number of centrifuge units were sent to Libya directly from Pakistan by air. There is a possibility that the design of the centrifuge units that were sent were of the PI model, i.e. a DUTCH designed model ; and
13.3 Project Machine Shop 1001. This was a project to set up a workshop in Libya to make centrifuge components, which could not be obtained from outside Libya. The machines for the workshop were obtained from SPAIN and Italy. BSA Tahir said the middleman involved in this project was PETER GRIFFIN, a BRITISH citizen who is believed to have once owned Gulf Technical Industries (GTI) based in Dubai. PETER GRIFFIN is said to be retired and living in FRANCE. The management of GTI has been taken over by his son PAUL GRIFFIN. BSA TAHIR also said that the plan for the machine shop 1001 was prepared by PETER GRIFFIN.
NETWORKING
14. BSA Tahir said that Pakistanâs need to produce nuclear weapons became urgent after INDIA tested its nuclear weapon on 18 May 1974.âIn view âof this, the Kahuta Plant was set up and the nuclear arms expert was forced to get equipment discreetly from developed nations, especially Europe. In the process, he developed contacts to get the needed material from several countries. This had to be done discreetly because Pakistan had to develop a nuclear weapon for national defence after Indiaâs nuclear test received opposition from many Western countries. Amid these difficulties, the nuclear expert successfully developed a network of middlemen that, not only involved BSA Tahir, but also several people and companies from Europe seeking to make profits by selling, certain materials and equipment. However, it was a loose network, without a rigid hierarchy, or a head and a deputy head as was alleged.
15. According to BSA Tahir, some of the middlemen appeared to have known the nuclear expert for a long while and some amongst them knew him when he was in the NETHERLANDS. Among the middlemen alleged to have links with him are:-
15.1 GERMANY
Late HEINZ MEBUS, an engineer. He is alleged to have been involved in discussions between the nuclear arms expert and ERAN to supply centrifuge designs about 1984/85.
15.2 GOTTHARD LERCH, a German citizen residing in Switzerland. GOTTHARD LERCH once worked for LEYBOLD HERAEUS, a German company that is alleged to have produced vacuum technology equipment. GOTTHARD LERCH is alleged to have tried to obtain supplies of pipes for the Machine Shop 1001 Project by sourcing from SOUTH AFRICA but failed to obtain it even though payment had been made by LIBYA earlier.
15.3 TURKEY
GUNAS IIREH, a citizen of TURKEY who had once worked for the German company Siemens. GUNAS JEREH is alleged to have supplied aluminium casting and dynamo to LIBYA at the request of the nuclear arms expert;
15.4 SELEM ALGUADIS, a citizen of TURKEY of Jewish descent. Also said to be an engineer. Alleged to have supplied electrical cabinets and power supplier-voltage regulator to LIBYA. Two weeks after action against the ship BBC China in Taranto, Italy on 4 Oct 2003, BSA TAKER is alleged to have arranged the transhipment of electrical cabinets and power supplier-voltage regulator to LIBYA through DUBAI on behalf of SELEM ALGUADIS.
15.5 UNITED KINGDOM
PETER GRIFFIN, a citizen of UNITED KINGDOM who had business interests in Dubai and currently residing in FRANCE. Alleged- to have supplied the layout plan for the Machine Shop- 1001 as a workshop to enable Libya to produce components for centrifuge;
15.6 About 2001/2002, PETER GRIFFIN is alleged to have supplied a lathe machine to Libya for the Machine Shop 1001 Project. After that PETER GRIFFIN arranged to send 7 to 8 Libyan technicians to SPAIN, twice, to attend courses on how to operate the machine. At the same time, PETER GRIFFIN is also said to have supplied an Italian-made furnace to Libya for the workshop. Usually, lathe machines are used to make cylindrical objects, while the furnace is essential in the process of heating and refining during the manufacture of certain components;
15.7 SWITZERLAND
FRIEDRICH TINNER, mechanical engineer, alleged to have had dealings with the nuclear arms expert since 1980s. FRIEDRICH TINNER was reported to have prepared certain centrifuge components, including safety valves, and he sourced many of the materials that were made in several companies in Europe. FRIEDRICH TINNER did not ⢠keep the stock himself but arranged for the supply to reach Dubai and then on to LIBYA. FRIEDRICH TINNER is also the President of CETEC, a company in SWITZERLAND; and
15.8 URS FRIEDRICH TINNER is the son of FRIEDRICH TINNER. URS TINNER is a consultant arranged by BSA Tahir to set up the SCOPE factory in SHAH ALAM. He was actively involved in the manufacturing operations in the SCOPE factory.
16. Although the individuals above were alleged to have been involved, the governments of the countries concerned and some of the companies involved, which supplied the components to the individuals above, were unaware of the real use of the components.
ALLEGATIONS AGAINST SCOPE
17. The Special Branch also investigated the allegation that BSA Tahir had used SCOPE and its business to manufacture certain parts of the centrifuge unit. A check on Malaysiaâs Security Commission records show, that SCOPE or Scomi Precision Engineering Sdn. Bhd. was set up as a subsidiary to Scomi Group on 4 Dec 2001. Before SCOPE was set up as a subsidiary of Scomi, it was known as Prisma Wibawa Sdn. Bhd. (PWSB). At first, PWSB had no production facility but after SCOPE was set up, a production facility was set up in 2001.
18. SCOPEâS business is precision engineering services. Generally, SCOPE gets orders from a number of companies to supply parts or components for vehicle parts and machining high precision components. The work involved machining parts such as cutting, turning and milling. The SCOPE factory is located in SHAH ALAM and has a permanent staff of about 30 people. As such, it is not a very big factory of a complex when compared with other factories.
19. Results of the investigation according to chronology is as follows:-
ROLE OF BSA TAHIR
19.1 Sometime in 2001, BSA Tahir is alleged to have planned to manufacture components with GUNAS JIREH in TURKEY. However, BSA TAHIR later changed his mind and offered a new business planâ said to be legitimate to produce components for petroleum and gas to SCOPE. The staff were under the impression that the production was for petroleum and gas intended for Dubai.
ROLE OF URS FRIEDRICH TINNER
19.2 Following this development, BSA Tahir sent URS FRIEDRICH TINNER as a consultant to the SCOPE factory with the aim of giving expert advice on how to manufacture components in a business that was deemed legitimate.
19.3 URS FRIEDRICH TINNER or URS TINNER, as he is better known, is 39 years old and is the son of FRIEDRICH TINNER. URS TINNER was made a full-time technical consultant to SCOPE starting Apr 2002 on the recommendation of BSA Tahir. According to BSA Tahir, URS TINNER was recommended after PETER GRIFFIN was found unsuitable for the job. Before this, PETER GRIFFIN presented a feasibility study recommending, among others, the type of machinery needed. One of the machinery, a Cincinnati Hawk 150 Machining Centre, is the same as that purchased and installed by URS TINNER. This evidence was found in a document in the nature of a brief note allegedly signed by PETER GRIFFIN himself dated 10 Mar 2001.
19.4 As a consultant, URS TINNER was responsible in importing and setting up the machine that was bought through the services of his father, FRIEDRICH TINNER. There were also machines imported through Traco Company, SWITZERLAND, owned by MARCO TINNER, the brother of URS TINNER. Among the types of machines that were bought and fixed by URS TINNER are CNC Lathe Hawk (Cincinnati) from the UNITED KINGDOM, CNC Machining Center Arrow 500 (Cincinnati), also from the UNITED KINGDOM, CNC Lathe Mexica 590 (Cazeneuve) from FRANCE and Emco PC Turn 155 from UNITED KINGDOM. Two other machines made in TAIWAN L-i.e. Automated Bandshaw Cutting Machine (Averizing) and Universal Tool Grinder (Monaset) were bought from local agents.
20. Throughout the time he was in the SCOPE factory, URS TINNER was seen by SCOPE staff as carrying out his duties with care and would always take back his component drawings once a component was finished. URS TINNER is also alleged to have said that he was doing that to safeguard trade secrets. At that time, his explanation was accepted by the staff. No suspicions were aroused.
21. Many SCOPE staff also said that URS TINNER would erase all technical drawings that were kept in the computer at the SCOPE factory. In Oct 2003, URS TINNER ended his term of service at the SCOPE factory and just before this, is said to have taken the hard-disc of the companyâs computer that was designated for his use. URS TINNER is also said to have taken his personal file from the SCOPE factoryâs records. This gave the impression that URS TINNER did not wish to leave any trace of his presence there and wanted to ensure that the. Technical drawings did not fall into the hands of the SCOPE factory staff. However, URS TINNER left behind a machine, i.e. a manual turning machine. It was a 1948 model made in Schaublins, SWITZERLAND. This machine was never used.
22. The SCOPE staff did not know that on 4 Oct 2003, a ship, BBC China, was examined in the port of Taranto, ITALY where a total of 5 containers bound for LIBYA were confiscated because they were alleged to contain components for certain parts of a centrifuge unit. In fact, URS TINNER left his position as a consultant in SCOPE also in Oct 2003.
MATERIAL FOR MANUFACTURING COMPONENTS
23. The investigations show that the raw materials for making the components were obtained from a German subsidiary company i.e. Bikar Metal Pte Ltd in SINGAPORE. A total of 300 metric tons of aluminium grade 6061 and 6082 were bought and obtained from Bikar Metal in the form of round bars or round tubes. These materials are not controlled items. Therefore, URS TINNER recommended the purchase and this did not give rise to any concern or suspicion among the SCOPE staff.
MANUFACTURE AND EXPORT
24. The materials obtained from Bikar Metal i.e. aluminium round tube and aluminium round bar are semi-finished products that were sent to the SCOPE factory in SHAH ALAM for machining to be made into components for export. The order from BSA TAKER was a one-off production estimated at about RM13 million and was sent in four stages to DUBAI. This was not a long-term contract on a continuing basis.
25. The SCOPE factory records show that a total of 14 types of components were manufactured. The components were sent in four stages i.e. in the month of Dec 2002 to Aug 2003. All four shipments were sent to Dubai to Aryash Trading Company.
26. Though a document, delivery note/packing list, dated 1 Aug 2002 (Appendix "A") shows that SCOPE had sent a shipment addressed to Gulf Technical Industries LCC, P.O. Box 29576, Dubai, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES, the consignment was directed to Desert Electrical Equipment Factory, P.O.Box 51209, DUBAI on the instructions of URS TINNER. Documents related to the delivery to Desert Electrical Equipment Factory are as at Appendix "B".
27. From the document retrieved such as âdelivery note and packing listâ, it has been found that SCOPE only shipped the components to DUBAI. No document was traced that proved SCOPE had delivered or exported the said components to Libya. Only BSA Tahir and URS TINNER are said to know any preparation or arrangements to Libya.
SEARCH ON BBC CHINA VESSEL
28. As explained, on 4 October 2003, a vessel, BBC CHINA, was searched at the Taranto port, ITALY where a total of 5 containers to LIBYA was seized following allegations it contained certain components for âcentrifuge.â The containers were sent by BSA TAHIR from DUBAI. Several items inside the container that is said to be components of a âcentrifugeâ are as follows :
Description Part Numbers Total 28.1 Casing 4 2,208 28.2 Molecular Pump 5 2,208 28.3 Top spacer 6 â 608 28.4 Positioner 8 10,549 28.5 Top end 9 1,680 28.6 Crash Ring 12 2,208 28.7 Stationary Tube 59 1,056 28.8 Clamp holder- 73 400 28.9 Flange 77 4,525
29. All the above items were made of âquality aluminiumâ and were in wooden boxes with the SCOPE logo. This was part of the âtranshipmentâ delivered by SCOPE to Aryash Trading Company, DUBAI. The shipment of the items or components by BSA TAHIR to LIBYA via the vessel BBC CHINA was outside the knowledge of the management of SCOPE.
30. Photographs of the above items or components was shown to local experts at the Atomic Energy Licensing Board (AELB), which is responsible for the implementation of guidelines of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) connected with âIAEA safeguard systemâ in MALAYSIA, and also the Malaysian Institute of Nuclear Technology Research (MINT). They admitted that trained eyes like theirs found it difficult to positively confirm that the seized components were part of a âcentrifugeâ unit. This is because the said components could also be used by other industries besides Nuclear Technology. It was important and necessary to know the existence of a secret international network that planned to supply centrifuge components to LIBYA before making any assumptions on its use. In relation to this, it is appropriate to extract the AELB view on the seized components:
"The sets of graphic images presented, it may be parts of many possible mechanical device or devices. These parts could easily be fitted into many industrial or home components. Without knowing the full or a significant portion of the total of sub assembly no definitive use of assignment of the possible device may be made" (Photographs of components seized from BBC CHINA is as at Appendix "C")
OTHER INFORMATION CONNECTED TO THE ACTION AGAINST THE VESSEL BBC CHINA
31. The action against vessel BBC CHINA should also be viewed with scepticism in light of the following allegations made by BSA TAHIR :
31.1 BSA TAHIR claimed that together with the seized components on board BBC CHINA on October 4, 2003, was a consignment sent by GUNAS JIREH, a Turkish national who supplied âaluminum casting and dynamoâ to LIBYA for its âmachine shop 1001â project. These items were delivered through DUBAI using the services of Tut Shipping (TS) via vessel BBC CHINA. It is surprising that the consignment from GUNAS JIREH direct to LIBYA was allowed without any action; and
31.2 2 weeks after action was taken against BBC CHINA, BSA TAHIR claimed to have arranged a âtransshipment of electrical cabinet and power supplier-voltage regulatorâ to LIBYA through DUBAI on behalf of SELEVI ALGUADIS. This transhipment too arrived in LIBYA without any obstruction and this is unusual. SELEVI ALGUADIS is said to have known the nuclear arms expert since 1980sâ.
SCOPEâS STATUS
32. In general, the investigations revealed the following :
32.1 That the management of SCOPE were unaware that the exported components were part of certain centrifuge unit for LIBYA. The management of SCOPE considered it a legitimate business deal. To untrained eyes, such components would not raise any concern, as the components are similar to components that could be used by the âpetrol -chemical industryâ and âwater treatmentâ and various other industries.
32.2 SCOPE obtained the semi-finished product to produce the said components from a German company Bikar Metal and this gives the impression that these items are not controlled items. In view of the foregoing, the work that was carried out on the semi-finished product is legitimate and does not give rise to suspicion.
32.3 BSA TAHIR and URS TINNER did not declare the use of the component or the true nature of the business. Moreover, the components that were confiscated cannot be used as one complete unit of centrifuge. Vital components such as rotor motor or in technical terms rotating components were not among the components seizâed. Besides, SCOPE does not have the ability or the technical know how to produce it. It must be stressed that rotating components are vital for a centrifuge unit for the process of uranium enrichment. To build one centrifuge unit, a number of sophisticated components are needed and SCOPE only prepared 12 types of components. In fact, SCOPE was misled into manufacturing the components for dual purposes for the petroleum and ga6 industry. As of now no factory in Malaysia is capable of manufacturing a complete centrifuge unit, what more, the construction of hundreds or thousands of centrifuges.
32.4 To SCOPE, the alleged manufacturing of components for centrifuges were a one-off production worth an estimated RM13 million. This means SCOPE did not receive any further orders and, as such, the manufacturing of such components is not its core business. As such, claims that the Malaysian authorities have shut down one of the networkâs largest plant has been exaggerated.
33. In this context/Malaysia is a signatory to the Non Proliferation Treaty (NPT). NPT in general oversees control over nuclear materials like uranium, thorium and plutonium. Manufacturing, using or importing and exporting of uranium and plutonium and also other materials like thorium that can be converted into uranium are controlled by the NPT. All nations, including Malaysia, who are signatories to the NPT are required to report all inventories, and also the import and export of nuclear materials, to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) based in Vienna, Austria as the IAEA is the enforcement agency to the NPT. However, it has no control over nuclear equipments such as centrifuge components. As such SCOPE or Malaysia has not broken any of the NPT rules, as it is not among the listed items of the NPT. Besides, Malaysia has yet to sign the Additional Protocol to the IAEAâs enforcement control agreement. In general, this Additional Protocol ensures control over specific nuclear equipment like single-use items that covers materials such as centrifuge for uranium enrichment. However, this Additional Protocol does not cover dual-use items like centrifuge for petrochemical, water treatment and the use in molecular biology for protein separation for health. Therefore, Malaysia, which is not a party to the Additional Protocol, has not violated any of the provisions in the Additional Protocol because the seized components at the Port of Taranto in Italy were basic components and not complete centrifuge unit for uranium enrichment. Moreover, under Malaysian Atomic Energy Licensing Act (Act 304) there is no provision under the law for the control of such components that were seized.
34. From the explanation above, it is clear that SCOPE has not violated any law under the NPT, Additional Protocol and also the Malaysian law under the AEL (Act 304). What is clear is that most individuals involved in the networking are from Europe whose countries are signatories to the Additional Protocol and also members of the Nuclear Supplier Group (NSG). As such, these countries are governed by the rules and regulations that have been set including reporting any transaction of specific materials for the use of nuclear to the IAEA. Germany has signed the Additional Protocol on 22 September 1998 and also a member of the NSG. Therefore, it is the responsibility of Bikar Metal to report to the German Government and also to the IAEA if semi-finished products that was. supplied to SCOPE had been listed as a controlled item.
CONCLUSION
35. The police, in handling the investigation took an open and transparent approach. In this context, a full and complete report in connection with the investigation will be submitted to the AELB Malaysia to be reported to IAEA, an agency under the United Nations. This is in line with Malaysiaâs policy in recognizing a multi-lateral approach in conjunction with the IAEA and rejecting a unilateral approach where investigations are monopolized by only certain countries.
The Malaysian authorities are always ready to co-operate with the IAEA if there is a need for further investigation.
36. It is hoped that the IAEA will start investigations on several individuals from Europe allegedly involved in the proliferation of nuclear weapons. Investigations undertaken by the Malaysian authorities prove the countryâs commitment to supporting efforts to curb the illegal transfer and proliferation of nuclear technology.
Date : 20 February 2004
Posted by: Steve ||
02/23/2004 1:55:25 PM ||
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#1
Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter-accusations.
US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld accused Iran and Syria of allowing militants to cross their borders into Iraq to carry out attacks. Thereâs a run on toilet paper in both capitals today.
"Syria and Iran have not been helpful to the people of Iraq", he told journalists Monday during a visit to Baghdad. "Indeed they have been unhelpful." Weâve noticed...
"They have allowed people to move from their countries to engage in terrorist attacks against the Iraqi people." ..and so has Rummy.
Asked if pressure should be put on Damascus and Tehran to cease their alleged activities, Rumsfeld replied, "That wouldnât be a bad thing." (he said with a evil grin)
Asked if there was official Syrian and Iranian support for people crossing the borders, he said, "We know Iran has harbored Al-Qaeda, we know they had people moving across the border. They were certainly aware of that." Yup
Rumsfeld added, "We know Syria has been a hospitable place for escaping Iraqis" following the US-led invasion of Iraq last year. "We know Syria has facilitated (the movement of) terrorists with the cooperation of Iran down through Damascus and into Beirut and into the Bekaa Valley and down into Israel." During the US invasion, "We have seen buses come out of Syria filled with people who were coming to join the fray," he said. I wonder, how many buses never made it?
There was no doubt that "the powers that be in Syria and Iran are not wishing the Iraqi people well," Rumsfeld said, adding, "Sometimes I understate for emphasis." Nobody does it better.
He said the US State Department "and others will continue to make it clear to those two countries that their behaviour is unhelpful." Lot of menace in that word, "unhelpful".
Posted by: Steve ||
02/23/2004 1:09:34 PM ||
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#1
I notice the lack of mention of Saudi Arabia in Rumsfelds comments. Perhaps they are really trying to help the war on terror now.
#3
There was no doubt that "the powers that be in Syria and Iran are not wishing the Iraqi people well," Rumsfeld said, adding, "Sometimes I understate for emphasis."
I disagree, Rummy. The Syrians and Iranians have been sending lots of fruit baskets to Iraq lately, heavy on the pineapples...
#6
"We've threfore decided to return any captured jihadis to their countries of origin - of course, sine the governments of Syria and Iran refuse us permission to land, we've been delivering them from about 15,000 feet..."
The mere possibility of that happening is probably worth a division or an air wing.
Posted by: Matt ||
02/23/2004 15:34 Comments ||
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#8
Hmmmm... In 2008, Rummy will be 76 yrs old. Reagan, the oldest man thus far to take office as President, was just 17 days short of his 70th birthday on Jan 20, 1981 - and served for 8 yrs. Rummy's obviously tough as nails and seems fit as hell... Maybe, just maybe. Assuming he has no health problems / medical misadventures in the next 4 years, I'd be honored to support and vote for him. Who for Veep? Condi, perhaps?
Malacañang said on Monday government may favor the withdrawal of criminal charges against leaders of the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) if only to push forward peace negotiations. The joint ceasefire committees of government and MILF also agreed to end the issue on their alleged involvement in the supposed training of Jemaah Islamiyah (JI) militants in the jungles of Central Mindanao and the Autonomous Region for Muslim Mindanao (Armm).
"We're going to pretend it never happened."
Presidential spokesman Ignacio Bunye said the dropping of charges against MILF leaders would depend on the court, but it can be withdrawn if only to push peace talks. Bunye said while the MILF leaders may be "saved," the six others who allegedly directly participated in the bombings would remain in jail to face court proceedings. "The government shall ensure that the trial proceeds to its logical conclusion," he added.
I hope that means somebody's getting his neck lengthened...
Kabalu said it was agreed that the government would withdraw all charges against the MILF officials before peace negotiations resume in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, tentatively in April. He said the withdrawal of charges is appropriate "since the cases wonât stand a chance in court due to weak evidence."
"Everybody knows the witnesses are all dead!"
Benjie Mindtimbang, chairman of the MILF coordinating committee on the cessation of hostilities (CCCH), said the purported training of JI recruits in the MILFâs Camp Cararao in Butig, Lanao del Sur is already a "closed issue as far as the two CCCHâs are concerned." He said both parties settled the matter recently during a regular meeting in Davao City, which cleared the MILFâs involvement on the issue. "But it would be (part of the) continuing concerns of both parties for the sake of peace in Mindanao," Mindtimbang said.
The clearing of the MILF came after both ceasefire committees found distortions on the matter as reported by the media. To clarify the report, the ceasefire committees conducted an inspection at the alleged training camp. Non-government organization Bantay Ceasefire Monitoring Group and some members of the media witnessed the inspection. "There were no evidences of a training camp and the presence of JI training in Cararao at the foot of Mt. Makaturing in Butig, Lanao del Sur," Midtimbang said. However, media reports came up that the Bantay Ceasefire Monitoring Mission and the groups that went to Cararao have found about 30 JI militants. Midtimbang said the report on the "JI-Cararao issue" was being "sensationalized for public consumption" by some sectors of the media in Davao.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/23/2004 12:20:37 PM ||
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The Army has decided to cancel its Comanche helicopter program, a multi-billion project to build a new-generation chopper for armed reconnaissance missions, officials said Monday. The contractors for Comanche are Boeing Co. and Sikorsky Aircraft Corp. With about $8 billion already invested in the program, and the production line not yet started, the cancellation is one of the largest in the history of the Army. It follows the Pentagonâs decision in 2002 to cancel the Crusader artillery program - against the wishes of Army leaders.
Posted by: Dar ||
02/23/2004 12:17:29 PM ||
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#1
noooooo,that thing was awesome,lets hope alot of its tech filters down to other systems,real shame that
#2
Awesome perhaps, but with $8 Billion spent and no production line running, I would say that the program deserved to be chopped. It is a helicopter for God's sake, not a spaceship. Congrats the Army for making a tough decision.
Posted by: remote man ||
02/23/2004 12:38 Comments ||
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No shit! It's about bloody time! Too bad they couldn't have canceled the damn thing about 7 billion dollars ago.
That money could have bought a LOT of UAV's, like the Predator and such.
-AR
Posted by: Analog Roam ||
02/23/2004 12:56 Comments ||
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...I know Comanche had some problems early on in its program, but I had understood that they had all been ironed out. What was behind this except a desire to save some money?
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
02/23/2004 13:47 Comments ||
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I've heard the UAV's are more expensive than people think, and I suspect they'll become more so as soon as the bureaucracy starts noticing them and does to them the sort of economy-of-scale problems they did to the Comanche.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
02/23/2004 14:20 Comments ||
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#6
It was designed to be fast and stealthy and defeat massed armor in a Fulda Gap type scenario. It's great technology. There's just no threat to justify it any longer. It should have been killed eight years ago.
To be honest, these programs have bad habit of becoming corporate welfare. Here's why. The requirement is identified and Congress allots some money to R&D. Part of that requirement is a availability date. Specs are drawn up, design reviews are held, and everyone decides that it feasible and will cost $xx. The military goes back to Congress and asks for more money for a prototype. If Congress funds it, it gets built. Once the protoype demonstrates that it meets or exceeds the initial requirements, the next logical step is to go into production. Here is where the shenanigans start. Either Congress refuses to fund production or the military says it isn't quite ready for it. Meanwhile, more tests get ordered on the prototype. And you don't want to lose the engineers (believe me, no matter how good the design documentation, laying off the technical staff == starting over from the beginning). So you start paying the contractor a "retainer fee" to keep running tests, making improvements, and to hold on to the design staff. This is all done on a "cost plus" basis, i.e. the contractor gets a guaranteed profit all the while. Every year, a little more gets allocated to keep the program limping along. I think the Comanche has been in development since the late 1980's, so I can see how $8B got spent in just such a manner.
There is obviously a lot of politics that goes along with this. I left that out on purpose. The real problem now is what happens to all that design expertise? A lot of the Comanche engineers are probably being laid off as we speak. There probably won't be another attack helicopter spec'ed out for a decade. If we do need one in a hurry ten years from now, the people who can do that sort of work, won't be around any longer; they'll have changed fields, or have forgotten.
#7
Program has been restructured 5 times since the start, back in 1983. I've heard it kept getting heavier as they added more requirements. Sikorsky will take a hit, but Boeing will make more Apaches, so they'll be OK.
Posted by: Steve ||
02/23/2004 14:30 Comments ||
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It's one more accident away from being cancelled. Anytime now....
Posted by: Steve ||
02/23/2004 16:00 Comments ||
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#10
11A5S has some good points, to add, part of the reason that the costs were high is that the military insisted that the major components be designed and built by "partnership" Boeing and Sikorsky for the airframe and Allison and Garrett (Now Rolls Royce and Honeywell) for the engine. The partnerships do not work well in engineering companies, different corporate cultures and then the worst, when a technical issue comes up, the finger pointing starts and to get something fixed is painful. The last reason the costs were high is that the Army wanted everything, including the kitchen sink in that machine. The contractors made it work but it's expensive. Cancellation of this weapons system is a big mistake, it is the only platform that can get over 12,000 feet and fight or identify bad guys. The Army really could have used it at Tora Bora. And yes I'm one of those engineers that may be laid off because of the cancellation.
Posted by: Startford Thug ||
02/23/2004 16:42 Comments ||
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Startford... how much fallout was there from the failed Apache raid? I sense the Army is reviewing it's helicopter needs and tactics.
#12
While this sucks from Boeing's and Sikorsky's the program would of been 25 years old by the time production started. If was to be axed it sould of been axed a long time ago. But 11A5S has some very good points. Engineering companies are not like other businesses where you can just hang out a help wanted sign and begin operations in short order. Its just not the engineers, its also the peole who work in the production departments. A good example of this is the Navy's insistence on building new subs even though we could probably do without them. We can't afford as a nation to loose the skills base that thes types of companies rest on. And thats what is really assinine about the tanker deal with Boeing. I suspect some members of Congress would just as soon see Boeing go out of business to teach it a lesson than come to the realization that companies and industries like this once lost are not easily replaced. But then what do you expect from lawyers.
#13
UAVs are clearly the way of the future. From my perspective the US military has resisted them. The Iraq war let the cat out of the bag, when field commanders saw their capabilities they wanted as many as possible as soon as possible. Recall the news reports of experimental UAVs being rushed into service.
UAVs are inherently MUCH cheaper than manned vehicles cos safety is far less of an issue and there is no pilot to keep alive. If it gets shot down you just send up another one.
With the new micro UAVs under development you will be able to put dozens in the air at one time.
#14
Shipman... All we heard was the airframe guys talk. I work for the engine manufacture in Phoenix. The impression that I got from a recent Army visit is that the service would not be interested in more OH-58's. It a jet ranger painted green
Posted by: Startford Thug ||
02/23/2004 17:52 Comments ||
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Ohmygod - the V22 Osprey isn't dead yet? Now there was a piece of work - imagine the bureaucratic brilliance of the designers and planners who conceived of the plan - and actually pulled it off - to ensure that at least one subsystem was being made in each of the 50 states! Rumor was that they were trying to arrange for at least one part to be manufactured in every congressional district. 'Talk about a "tough to kill" program... heh, heh.....
Hat tip: Drudge. Edited for brevity. Excerpted from "Rumsfeldâs War" (Regnery Publishing Inc.) by Rowan Scarborough.
Donald H. Rumsfeld sat in a vault-like room studded with video screens and talked with President Bush as the Pentagon burned. "This is not a criminal action," the secretary of defense told Bush over a secure line. "This is war." The word "war" meant more than going after the al Qaeda terrorist network in Afghanistan, the fault line of terrorism. Bush said he wanted retaliation.
The setting was the Pentagonâs Executive Support Center, where Rumsfeld held secure video teleconferences with the White House across the Potomac or with ground commanders 10,000 miles away. The time was 1:02 p.m., less than four hours after terrorists steered American Flight 77 into the Pentagonâs southwest wall. Rumsfeld at first had dashed to the impact site. In his shirt and tie, he helped transport the wounded. Finally convinced to leave the scene, Rumsfeld entered the closely guarded ESC, where whiffs of burned rubble penetrated the ventilation system. The video monitor in front of him was blank, but there was an audio connection with the president at Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana.
Rumsfeldâs instant declaration of war, previously unreported, took America from the Clinton administrationâs view that terrorism was a criminal matter to the Bush administrationâs view that terrorism was a global enemy to be destroyed. "That was really a breakthrough strategically and intellectually," recalls Douglas Feith, undersecretary of defense for policy. "Viewing the 9/11 attacks as a war that required a war strategy was a very big thought, and a lot flowed from that." Rumsfeld wanted a war that was fought with ruthless efficiency: special forces, high-tech firepower, a scorecard for killing or capturing terrorists. He had no desire to become the worldâs jailer. And he refused to be stymied by bureaucracy. This would be a global war, Rumsfeld said, and he planned to give Special Operations forces â Delta Force, SEALs and Green Berets â unprecedented powers to kill terrorists.
More at link. I love this man!
Posted by: Dar ||
02/23/2004 11:31:00 AM ||
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Rummys a top man, for all the criticism the media throw at him he still proves to be a top guy
#2
Rumsfeld's the right man at the right time. Moral and tactical clarity was needed, not some law-enforcement world view. I still love remembering that press conference where some clueless reporter (sorry for the redundancy) asked what the US was planning on doing to the Taliban/terorists and Rumsfeld said: "kill them". Think Kerry or Edwards would have someone on their staff with that clarity or serious attitude?
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/23/2004 12:31 Comments ||
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His question to Holland "Have you killed anyone yet?" is priceless. He knows what it takes to finish this thing.
#6
Rummy just rocks. Great comments, folks. I'll freely admit that watching and reading him, especially his clear patient explanations to comprehension-challenged reporters at press conferences, is what made me take another good look at Bush and realize that Bush had grown into some very big shoes in very short order. But Rummy was the key - and he is my take-no-prisoners & take-no-shit hero!
Gee, Iâd love to be able to write like this guy....sigh...
BY MARK STEYN
How goes the war? No, not Vietnam. The other one. You remember. It was in all the papers until a month ago when Vietnam returned for a Democratic Party dinner-theater tour starring Massachusettsâ answer to Robert Goulet. Canât get into it myself. I dozed off the other day watching a White House press conference in which President Bush was asked nary a question about anything that had happened since 1972, and I dreamt there was a muffled explosion from al-Qaida down the street blowing up the Capitol. And, when it had died away, the press corps brushed the plaster dust off their suits and said, ââBut, Mr. President, critics point out that National Guard pay stubs from the â70s are notoriously easy to forge.ââ
Itâs been said that America is divided into Sept. 11 people and Sept. 10 people. The former category are those for whom Sept. 11, 2001, changed everything. The latter are those for whom Sept. 10, 1972, changed everything. Thatâs when Bush didnât show up at the Air National Guard base because he was dancing naked on a bar in Acapulco with Conchita the surly waitress. Or whatever. If you think this is the most important issue facing America, feel free to vote for John Kerry, who back in 1972 was proudly serving his country by accusing its armed services of committing war crimes. Or whatever. Like I said, I canât get my head round the whole retro this-is-the-aging-of-the-dawn-of-Aquarius scene.
Meanwhile, thereâs this whole other war going on, the one Bush has to attend to while everyone else is on cable TV talking about the early â70s. This war has an ambitious aim: the transformation of the most dysfunctional region of the world. You canât do it overnight. But, 10 months after the liberation, it should be possible to discern a trend, and right now all the Middle Eastern dominoes are beginning to teeter in the same direction.
Last year, about a month after the war, I was heading back through Iraqâs western desert to Amman, came to Jordan Junction just past Rutba and decided to take a swing up the road to the Syrian border. A weird sight: On one side, the frontier guards of the last surviving Baathist regime; on the other, American troops. It must have looked a lot weirder from the Syrian side, if youâre suddenly spending your entire shift a few hundred yards from U.S. soldiers, relaxed and chewing the proverbial gum. It seems to have concentrated the mind of Bashir Assad, Syriaâs boy dictator. He has no desire to wind up looking like Saddam Hussein when they fished him out of that hole. So the other day the countryâs vice president, Abdul Halim Khaddam, said his government had sent messages to Israel via Turkey offering to resume peace talks with the Zionist entity.
Might be serious. Might be just a meaningless gesture. But the fact that Syria feels the need to be seen to be making a meaningless gesture is itself something. Whatâs happening is that most countries in the region are moving toward the American position; the only variable is the speed. Col. Gaddafi decided to throw in the towel completely. This time last year he was still beavering away on his Weapons of Mass Destruction program. Did you know he had one? The International Atomic Energy Agency -- the body John Kerry and the Democrats place so much faith in -- were blissfully unaware. But heâs now opened it up to British and American inspectors, and, in turn, we now know a lot more about his nuclear allies in North Korea, Iran and Pakistan. Even in that last ramshackle state, where Gen. Musharraf recently pardoned A Q. Khan, the father of the Pakistani bomb, for his various free-lance forays into pan-Islamic nuke sharing, the Bush approach has managed to flush Khan into the open: Heâll never be able to retreat into the shadows again.
In Europe, the war caused Tony Blair some political difficulties, but theyâre as nothing compared to those of Jacques Chirac and Gerhard Schroeder. The French press reacted to the Gaddafi cave-in by descending into a slough of gloomy self-contemplation about whether their glorious republic was entirely irrelevant. The Germans are desperately trying to rebuild their burned bridges to Britain and America, or, indeed, anyone other than Chirac.
Meanwhile, the U.N.âs much vaunted ââOil for Foodââ program has been revealed to be a corrupt racket, and there are calls for more financial accountability at the NGOs, the permanent floating crap game of Western do-gooderism that in far too many places does far less good than it ought to, given the dough it sluices up.
In other words, the ââcoalition of the willingââ has effected more positive change in the last 10 months than the multilateral establishment has in the last 10 years. If Bush loses in November because he canât provide sufficient witnesses to prove where he was on certain weekends in 1972, heâll still have an impressive legacy: Heâs toppled two dictatorships, neutered a third, and put the squeeze on several more. Yes, Americans are still being killed by Islamists in Iraq. But theyâre not being killed by Islamists in New York offices, or Washington government buildings, or U.S. embassies and ships.
Assume for the purposes of argument that the media are right: that John Kerryâs four months in Vietnam are so impressive they outweigh two decades of zero accomplishment in Washington, save for a series of votes remarkable for being wrong on every major issue, from Reaganâs raid on Libya to the Gulf War to every new weapons systems for the U.S. military. What will President Kerry do? This is how he characterized the war on terror to Tom Brokaw: ââI think there has been an exaggeration,ââ he said. ââThey are really misleading all of America, Tom, in a profound way. Itâs primarily an intelligence and law enforcement operation.ââ
Thatâs all I need to know. Bush wants to take the war to the enemies, fight it on their turf. Kerry wants to do it through ââlaw enforcementââ: If the Empire State Building gets blown up, heâll launch an investigation immediately. Itâs not enough. Even if Bush was AWOL 30 years ago, on everything that matters John Kerry is AWOL now.
Posted by: tipper ||
02/23/2004 10:12:58 AM ||
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No mention on how this guy plans to fight the war.
Nader, who turns 70 this week, was to lay out his campaign themes â including universal health care, campaign finance reform, fighting poverty and addressing environmental concerns â at a press conference Monday in Washington before campaigning in Texas later this week.
Opposed the invasion and occupation of Iraq
The quagmire of the Iraq war and occupation could have been averted and needs to be ended expeditiously, replacing US forces with a UN peacekeeping force, prompt supervised elections and humanitarian assistance before we sink deeper into this occupation, with more U.S. casualties, huge financial costs, and diminished US security around and from the Islamic world. The faulty and fabricated rationale for war has the US in a quagmire. Already more than $155 billion has been spent, adding to huge Bush deficits, when critical needs are not being met at home. We should not be mired in the occupation of Iraq risking further upheavals when our infrastructure, schools and health care are deteriorating. Four years of free public college and university tuition for all students could be paid for by $155 billion.
It's about 20th on his issues list.The only surprise was he only says "quagmire" twice.
#7
Contrast Kerry's "law enforcement" position with Rumsfeld's in the next post.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/23/2004 12:05 Comments ||
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#8
"the NGOs, the permanent floating crap game of Western do-gooderism"
LOL! Steyn can sure coin a phrase - and this one is spot-on.
"Bush wants to take the war to the enemies, fight it on their turf. Kerry wants to do it through âlaw enforcementâ"
That sums it up rather nicely, for those who actually know who and what we're fighting. For those that don't or won't, nothing will sway them from their sloganism - write 'em off as lost. Meanwhile, let's get Dubya four more years to do the job and drive 'em f**kin crazy. Melike.
#9
Apparently, Bush is also winning the Vietnam War of words. It's gonna be a long campaign for "tomatoKiller" Kerry.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
02/23/2004 19:11 Comments ||
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#10
There are 3 things I do to start nearly every day:
1. Log in and read Rantburg.
2. Log in and read Steynonline.
Then, and only then, is it safe for me to:
3. Get a cup of coffee.
EFL
Dutch authorities have already made space in the city for the wreckage of the no.19 bus, destroyed in a deadly Jerusalem suicide attack last month. Exhibits will show how Palestinians cannot reach schools and hospitals. Jewish children cannot reach schools either -- they dont accept body parts.
The bombed vehicle is Israelâs centre-piece in the looming battle for hearts and minds with pro-Palestinian groups in The Hague, where the International Court of Justice is on Monday to hold hearings on the legality of a barrier Israel has constructed to cut itself off from the Palestinian territories. But ministers are determined that Israelâs voice will be heard. "We probably would not have thought much about it if we hadnât found out the Palestinians were planning on sending thousands of demonstrators. We have to make sure that Israelâs voice is heard, that our position is clear." The Israeli Government has despatched a number of officials to brief journalists covering the hearings, while the Foreign Ministry has for its part already briefed the Israeli protesters who are to join demonstrations in The Hague.
The rallies themselves are being overseen by a local Dutch organisation, The Centre for Information and Documentation on Israel (CIDI), in liaison with a number of Jewish and Israeli groups. Up to 1,000 protesters are expected to carry placards bearing pictures of each of the victims of suicide bombings - the reason, Israel says, that the barrier, which cuts into Palestinian territory, is necessary. The bus meanwhile, is being shipped from Israel by Zaka, an organisation that collects the remains of attack victims for burial. The wreckage has been granted a prime position outside the courthouse. Eleven people lost their lives when it was blown up on 29 January. "The bus will be very welcome indeed," says CIDI director Ronny Naftaniel." It will be a monument to evil." Great quote that!
"But we have had difficulties getting the Palestinians here. Partly itâs a question of resources - we just donât have what the Israelis have," says Mr Decurealugo. Explosives are expensive ya know!
"But there have also been issues over leaving the country and entering Europe which neither the Israeli authorities nor the Dutch have been very helpful about." In a separate exhibition near the courthouse, Stop The Wall is planning to display photos which illustrate how it is not just farmers who suffer as a result of the wall, but children who cannot reach their schools and sick people who cannot reach a hospital. Will they include pictures of the body parts of innocent Israeli children as well?
"The wall has dramatically changed the lives of so many Palestinians - and thatâs what we are going to make clear in The Hague." Its that damn Reap what you Sow thing again.....
Posted by: CrazyFool ||
02/23/2004 10:11:50 AM ||
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Court case or political circus? Discuss.
Posted by: john ||
02/23/2004 10:39 Comments ||
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#2
a 'monument to evil' from the 'religion of peace' , nice gift that,lets give them a monument sculpted form a MOAB
#4
Ive got it, what the Israelis need is a huge say 500ton automatic wall building machine,I'm thinking a big armoured monster 100 tall that crawls along laying huge concrete walls.
#5
Jon Shep---I have been thinking along the same lines. The Israelis need the world's largest curb and gutter forming machine, modified for fence duty.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
02/23/2004 14:02 Comments ||
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#6
#6 Didn't the Russians try this out in Germany? As I recall, It didn't really solve anything.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
02/23/2004 15:28 Comments ||
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#7
Deacon - the Russians (actually Soviet Union) were trying to keep the East Germans in.... Israel is trying to keep the boomers out (while allowing controlled enterances for non-boomers).
This is very different from the Berlin Wall.
And yes, this whole thing is a political circus so that they can condemn Israel for defending herself in a time of war. (Since Arafat's group did that bus boom in Jerusalem and he is the 'elected' Head of the PA -- that makes it an act of war in my book...).
#8
The Soviets were trying to keep people in (prison) instead of keeping people out (fortress). And yes, actually, the Soviet walls worked rather well at their designated tasks. "Solved" the problem of people trying to flee Communism by making it impossible.
#9
I think that it's becoming clear: Arabs are all Major Drama Queens. Theater. Although circus, in a chaotic format, might be a better description.
Re: wall... I saw this "quiz" link on Michael J Totten's site... Using border / wall as interchangeable ideas: What's the best way to stop people from illegally crossing our borders?
CONSERVATIVE: Seal the borders so no one can get in.
LIBERAL: Do nothing to beef up security at the borders, and offer illegal aliens a wide array of free services.
LIBERTARIAN: Allow unrestricted passage across the borders.
COMMUNIST: Seal the borders so no one can get out.
I hate the formatting of this quiz page, but it has some very funny shit in it!
Another major wedding faux pas...
A grenade exploded at a wedding in eastern Ethiopia, killing the bride and three other people, state-run Ethiopian News Agency (ENA) reported on Friday. Wonder if it was gonna be a gift?
In Ethiopiaâs remote, rural communities it is not uncommon for guests to have gun sexshoot off fire their guns in the air at weddings in wild jubilation, although incidents involving grenades are rare. Which is a good thing, I guess. A proper wedding planner should have foreseen this.
"A grenade fell from a belt of an individual during a group dance at a wedding ceremony at Hamyao Sera farmersâ community in eastern Ethiopia killing four persons including the bride who was participating in the dance last Saturday," ENA said. Police called on people owning illegal weapons such as grenades to hand them to the authorities for their own safety. I will give up my grenade when they peel it from my cold, dead brideâs hand.
Ethiopians must have a license to own a firearm. But not grenades, evidently...
Posted by: tu3031 ||
02/23/2004 10:08:01 AM ||
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Secured the grenade to his belt by the pin like in the movies?
Posted by: Dar ||
02/23/2004 10:30 Comments ||
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#2
like in the movies?
Well if that is all it takes, we should send them a bunch of Looney Tunes where they fire from the wrong end of a gun. Or possibly, the Rabbit Season - Duck Season series.
Posted by: ed ||
02/23/2004 10:38 Comments ||
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#3
Alright, I'll take the easy lob; "Hey! How was the wedding?" It was a blast!!
Malaysia has offered to assist the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) in questioning a Sri Lankan businessman suspected of being a middleman in Pakistanâs illegal nuclear ring, police said. However, police said Buhary Syed Abu Tahir, identified by the United States as a middleman in an international nuclear trafficking ring run by Pakistani scientist and former head of its nuclear programme Abdul Qadeer Khan, had not committed any crime and was free to leave the country. "If he wants to leave, I cannot restrict him. He has not been charged and his passport has not been impounded. The police just investigate and weâve done that," Inspector-General of the national police, Bakri Omar, was quoted as saying by the official Bernama news agency. Iâm thinking that all depends on where he was planning to go. Other reports suggest that if he tries to leave, theyâll revoke his passport.
Tahir, who resides in the Malaysian capital of Kuala Lumpur, had revealed to police how Khan had asked him to send centrifuges from Pakistan to Iran in 1994 or 1995. He also told investigators that Libya had received enriched uranium from Pakistan, according to a police report released Friday. He rolled over, big time.
Bakri said that Malaysia was willing to assist the IAEA if it wishes to question Tahir, adding that he believed Tahir has not left the country. Iâll wager heâs in "protective" custody.
"The police are more than willing to assist and we are not imposing anything. The IAEA can interview him if they want to," he said. "They can interview him, weâll stand over in the corner with the truncheons, just in case."
Tahir, who is married to a Malaysian, was said to have obtained the nuclear components from SCOPE, part of a publicly listed company owned by the Malaysian prime ministerâs son, Kamaluddin Abdullah, and two other investors. Bakri said Tahir had misled the company into supplying the parts. Thatâs the deal he made, taking the blame and talking.
On Friday, police released a report clearing SCOPE of breaking any laws, saying the company was unaware that components it had manufactured were part of a centrifuge unit headed for Libya. But on Saturday, two nuclear related state-owned agencies said Malaysia would submit a written report to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) on the alleged supply of uranium centrifuge components by a local company to Libya. The Malaysian Institute for Technology Research and the Atomic Energy Licensing Board said Malaysia was not under investigations by the UN nuclear watchdog in the case concerning the alleged supply of uranium centrifuge components from Malaysia to Libya. Not yet, anyway.
"But the IAEA has informally requested certain specific information pertaining to the case from Malaysia," the agencies said in a joint-statement. This was to assist the IAEA in its investigations in other countries that are suspected to be in violation of the Non-proliferation Treaty, it said. It said the IAEA had not sent any of its inspectors to Malaysia to specifically check on any matter relating to this case. Iâm sure they will.
The Malaysian company admitted making the parts but said it believed they were for use in the oil and gas industries and did not know their final destination. Malaysia has strenuously denied that either the company or the country was knowingly involved in the nuclear arms black market. Who knows, it might even be true.
Najib said if the United States wanted to question Buhary Syed Abu Tahir, it had to put the request to the police. "Let the police decide," he said. I think the police have already been told what that decision should be.
Posted by: Steve ||
02/23/2004 9:53:07 AM ||
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Two weeks ago, these 11 foreign-born New Yorkers werenât even citizens yet. Two weeks from now, theyâll be serving their adopted country on the front lines in Iraq - as full-fledged Americans. During a Feb. 7 ceremony, with hundreds of cheering friends and family looking on, these 11 soldiers of the 2nd Battalion 108th Infantry of the New York National Guard turned in their green cards and put the citizen into soldier... The oldest of the group is Sabri Trabelsi, 38, from Tunisia. His parents own a computer business in Tunis, the capital city. Trabelsi left his folks mystified when he cashed in that comfortable life in 2001 to go blue-collar in America. He was working at a Sbarro pizza in the World Trade Center when 9/11 changed his life. "Two of my friends died there," said Trabelsi, who was a member of Tunisiaâs special forces 15 years ago and will serve as the battalionâs translator. "That hurt me so bad," Trabelsi added, toting his M-4 rifle in one hand and steadily taking drags on his smoke with the other. "I told myself, âGet up and do something about this.â I told myself, âLet me come back and train again.â This [training] is like dj vu for me."
An armed group have attacked a police station overlooking eastern Port-au-Prince, causing the police to run away flee, Haitian media have reported. "Run away!"
A police source told Radio Kiskeya that the police station, located in Terre Rouge, is in a strategic location between the central planes occupied by armed rebels and the capital Port-au-Prince. Terre Rouge is on a hill overlooking the city. Taking the high ground.
The latest attack comes amid spreading rebel violence, including the takeover of Haitiâs second-largest city, Cap Haitien, on Sunday. About 60 people have been killed since opponents to President Jean-Bertrand Aristide stepped up their attacks on cities on February 5. The city of Mirebalais, 57 kilometres east of Port-au-Prince, is still under government control, a local journalist said. The capital is the prize, take that and the rest falls.
Rebel leader Guy Philippe said on Sunday he would march into Port-au-Prince "in two or three days" if Aristide does not resign. Sounds like he could be right.
Toldja so...
Much of Haitiâs north is under firm rebel control. The insurgents are not participating in political negotiations being mediated by the international community. Why bother, theyâre winning. Jean better make his travel plans soon, or heâll end up hanging from a lamp post. Better run and start planning to overthrow the next government.
Posted by: Steve ||
02/23/2004 9:30:13 AM ||
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a strategic location between the central planes occupied by armed rebels
Really? So now they have an air force?
EFL
Fifty U.S. Marines are being deployed to Haiti on Monday, NBC News has learned, as rebels said they will soon attack the capital after over-running Haitiâs second-largest city on Sunday. The takeover was the biggest victory of a bloody uprising to oust President Jean-Bertrand Aristide. NBCâs Jim Miklaszewski, reporting from the Pentagon, said the U.S. ambassador in Haiti had requested the Marines. U.S. officials said the 50-man team, trained in counterterrorism, will join a dozen Marines already in Haiti to provide additional security for the embassy. Pentagon and military officials are still reviewing plans for a possible emergency airlift of some 300 U.S. government staff from Haiti if necessary, but as of Monday morning there had been no decision to issue an evacuation order, Miklaszewski said.
Posted by: Dragon Fly ||
02/23/2004 9:20:09 AM ||
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What good could these staffers possibly do during the total chaos that is unfolding? I can't imagine that there is any valuable intelligence to be had on the rabble. I would hope we aren't processing any Visa's. I'm sure that anything they are doing could be accomplished safely from the Dominical Republic.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
02/23/2004 9:32 Comments ||
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Fifty marines are just enough to make sure the rebels don't try to take the US Embassy, but not enough to act as a force to stop the rebels, or give Jean Baptiste any ridiculous ideas. Kind of a neat balancing act - "we protect our own, but you're on YOUR own".
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
02/23/2004 12:23 Comments ||
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In general I would say you are correct Old Patriot, but I think you underestimate the how far reputation can take them. In the old days the Marines could take over small countries liek Haiti with a handful of people because they were disciplined and the rebels were not. They built up a reputation so that most aggressors faded into the jungles rather than fight.
I have to believe the reputation has increased after Afghanistan/Iraq.
Its like the Naval reputation the British had where larger German and Italian ships often fled battles they should have been able to win.
#9
In the old days the Marines could take over small countries liek Haiti with a handful of people because they were disciplined and the rebels were not
Yep. Haiti was run for a few years after the second intervention by a group of retired gunny's.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his traveling party werenât the only Americans to refuel here in todayâs wee hours. Two companies of soldiers from the 120th Engineer Battalion, 90th Troop Command, Oklahoma National Guard, were getting ready to reboard their aircraft. Their civilian aircraft pilot saw the secretary and introduced himself as a former Air Force pilot. He told Rumsfeld more than 200 soldiers were right through the doors the secretaryâs party was about to enter. The defense secretary needed no introduction. The soldiers gave him a spontaneous, tumultuous welcome, and quickly surrounded the beaming Rumsfeld. The secretary shook some hands, exchanged some greetings and posed for countless pictures with the soldiers for about 10 minutes. Then he stood on a chair and offered them words of thanks and encouragement, punctuated by the soldiersâ hearty shouts of "Hooah!" The Guardsmen of the 120th have been mobilized and in training for their deployment since mid-December. Spc. Rebecca Patterson of Wagner, Okla., said she and her comrades had no idea theyâd meet the secretary of defense. She pointed out that the small amount of time they spent together had a big effect on her level of motivation. "Every word he said inspired me," she said. "He has a real presence, and this was a great surprise."
Hat tip Dhimmi Watch
If John Kerry becomes president, the first lady will have a track record of support for the causes of radical, anti-American groups â including Islamists, terrorist-defense law firms, abortionists and homosexual activists â that, by comparison, would make much of the country nostalgic for the days of Hillary Clinton, a study of her philanthropy patterns by Joseph Farahâs G2 Bulletin concludes.
One of heiress Teresa Heinz Kerryâs favorite charities is the Tides Foundation, a 28-year-old grant-making institution that funds to the tune of hundreds of millions radical groups that, among other things, protest the U.S. invasion of Iraq, demand open U.S. borders, provide the legal defense of suspected terrorists and promote the spread of Islamist ideology in the U.S. Heinz Kerry, worth an estimated three-quarters of a billion dollars, working through the Howard Heinz Endowment, oversaw the donation of more than $4 million to the Tides Foundation between 1995 and 2001, reports G2 Bulletin, a premium, online intelligence newsletter published by WorldNetDaily.
The Democratic Justice Fund, created through the efforts of Tides and George Soros, seeks to ease U.S. restrictions on Muslim immigration from countries designated by the State Department as âterrorist nations.â Tides also supports the Council for American Islamic Relations, a group that bills itself as a âMuslim civil rights group,â but one whose leaders have links to the terrorist group Hamas. CAIR Executive Director Nihad Awad openly stated in 1994, âI am a supporter of the Hamas movement.â Community Affairs Director Bassem K. Khafagi has been arrested for visa and bank fraud. Randall Royer, a communications specialist and civil rights coordinator at CAIR, was arrested along with a group of Islamic radicals in Virginia for allegedly planning jihadist activities. CAIR has defended terrorist fronts posing as âcharitiesâ â some of which have beem shut down by the Bush administration.
Tides supports the National Lawyers Guild, which began as a Communist Party front. Last October, Lynne Stewart, an indicted terrorist NLG lawyer, gave a rousing closing speech at the organizationâs convention. Stewart was arrested for helping her client, convicted 1993 World Trade Center bombing mastermind Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, communicate with terrorist cells in Egypt. "And modern heroes, dare I mention?" she said. "Ho and Mao and Lenin, Fidel and Nelson Mandela and John Brown, Che Guevara, who reminds us, âAt the risk of seeming ridiculous, let me say that the true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love.â Our quests like theirs are to shake the very foundations of the continents."
Heinz Kerry not only serves as chairman of the Howard Heinz Endowment, she also sits on the board of the Vira I. Heinz Endowment. The Earth Island Institute is a recipient of Heinz cash. Three days after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on America by Islamists, the group published a statement on its website rationalizing the terrorist actions. Under the headline, "U.S. Responds to Terrorist Attacks with Self-Righteous Arrogance," the statement explained that the destruction of the World Trade Center, the crash at the Pentagon, the four airline hijackings and the 3,000 Americans killed "was not an âattack on all American people,â" but "an act of anger, desperation and indignation."
On the record, the Tides Foundation says it has worked since 1976 for "positive social change. We put resources and people together âstrengthening community-based nonprofit organizations and the progressive movement through innovative grant-making. We define âprogressiveâ as creating a positive impact on peopleâs lives in ways that honor and promote human rights, justice, and a healthy, sustainable environment." For a fee, the group protects the anonymity of donors by directing tax-deductible contributions to specific groups.
One of Tides principal concerns, according to its annual report for 2001-2002 is mobilizing against the death penalty â always a polarizing issue during elections. "At a particularly conservative time in national politics, the United States seems to be awakening to the economic and racial biases of the criminal justice system," the report said. "Public support for the death penalty is the lowest it has been since 1981, and the anti-death penalty movement is gaining momentum. To support this growing movement, Tides Foundation launched the Death Penalty Mobilization Fund, which supports progressive coalition building and collaboration at the local, regional and national levels among groups working to reform the death penalty and to abolish capital punishment."
Another initiative was to promote groups pushing "living-wage organizing." "More than 56 local ordinances mandating a living wage have already passed across the country," the report said. Tides points out the "economic justice movement" has received only limited funding from other foundations.
In addition to its support of the National Lawyers Guild, Tides supports many branches of the American Civil Liberties Union and the Institute for Policy Studies, founded by Robert Borosage, a political mentor of Hillary Clinton. In addition to its support of CAIR, Tides supports the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee and the Arab American Action Network. A group called "Barrio Warriors" is also a recipient of Tides grants. This race-conscious Hispanic organization calls for the "liberation of Aztlan," the American southwest, including California, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas. Tides supports a variety of gun control groups, controversial needle exchange programs, euthanasia and assisted suicide organizations.
Donât be surprised if some of the tax-deductible donations by Tides results in political endorsements of Heinz Kerryâs husband this year. The League of Conservation Voters, the recipient of hundreds of thousands of dollars from Tides, has already endorsed John Kerry for president, despite its non-partisan billing. The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People and People for the American Way are two other regular recipients of big dollars. So well-endowed is Tides, last year it gave $8.5 million to the Rockefeller Family Fund.
Posted by: tipper ||
02/23/2004 8:39:49 AM ||
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she had to have minders assigned to her to keep her inappropriate (read: candidacy-killing) comments from the press. It's a matter of time before both of them have their comments and votes thrown in their face. I look forward to it.
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/23/2004 9:30 Comments ||
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eLarson, I actually have been avoiding Heinz products if possible lately. I also am trying to reduce the number of items that I buy marked "Made in China", or "Made in" any of the members of the Axis of Almost as Evil. Not exactly a boycott, but I prefer not to materially support my enemies. Fortunately I don't have to avoid any NorK product...all my tree bark and lawn clippings are Made With Pride in the USA!
I read recently that Mrs. Kerry owns between $1 and $5 million in Walmart stock despite the fact she wouldn't be caught dead in one and it's a bit of lefty dogma that Walmart is "eeeevil".
Secondly, I believe the lefty National Lawyers Guild had an office in the WTC. How these scum can turn their backs on what occured there is so extremely confounding!
#10
Hey Mrs. Catsup has to give the endowment money away or she doesn't get to keep her stipend. You excpect her to look into EVERY group she gives money to? Folks, this wobbly wagon is going to lose it's wheels in the next 9 months and it aint going to be pretty (for the Dems).
A rebel attack on a Russian military convoy killed four servicemen and injured a further four on Monday as a U.N. envoy began new talks on conditions in and around the turbulent region. Local officials said the convoy was halted by a roadside explosion outside a village in the Sharoi district in western Chechnya. The soldiers died in a subsequent shootout.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/23/2004 8:39:53 AM ||
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Article is old, nevermind.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/23/2004 8:40 Comments ||
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The ârealâ chief of al-Qaida cells in Saudi Arabia is Yemeni national Khalid Hajj rather than Saudi Abd al-Aziz al-Migrin, a Saudi newspaper reported on Monday. Asharq al-Awsat, a leading pan-Arab daily, has said al-Qaida has designated al-Migrin, 31, as the nominal leader of the group in Saudi Arabia because he is Saudi and this would help ensure the support of its sympathisers in the country. The newspaper did not give a source for its report, datelined Dammam in Saudi Arabiaâs Eastern Province. Asharq al-Awsat noted al-Megren topped the list of militants wanted by authorities for presumed links with a series of suicide bombings that killed 52 people in Riyadh last year. While Hajj is a Yemeni national, he was born in the Saudi Red Sea city of Jidda. The only Yemeni on the most-wanted list, he is in his thirties and goes by the name of Abu Hazim al-Shaair, Asharq al-Awsat said. It said US intelligence reports in October spoke of signs that Hajj had become the operations commander of al-Qaida in the Gulf region, but the reports were not confirmed at the time. Hajj is said to be in Riyadh, where he is being hunted by security forces.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/23/2004 8:37:14 AM ||
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#1
Believe it or not, Osama is basically Yemeni, too.
The Yemenis are like the "poorer" cousins of the Sauds.
#2
Jennie, do you think that the Bin Laden found fortune in Saudi Arabia beacuse the family was actually willing to work for living to become prosperous?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
02/23/2004 11:23 Comments ||
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Well, they did some work (or at least directed others to do it(=the Saudi secret).
His dad got all those construction contracts in Mecca, doncha know?
#4
Daddy bin Laden is a Yemeni who was "awarded" Saudi citizenship - children are officially Saudi. What did daddy do to get citizenship? Off the top I dunno - but this and this offer tons of bin Laden info, statements, background, etc. Mebbe it's in there somewhere! Soory, too lazy busy to check at the moment... ;-)
Osama bin Laden is still in Afghanistan and is planning further attacks on American interests, a spokesman from Afghanistanâs ousted Taliban regime said today. A man identifying himself as Taliban spokesman Mohammed Saiful Adel said Bin Ladenâs presence in Afghanistan was confirmed in a leaflet distributed to Taliban leaders in the south of the country. And leaflets donât lie.
The statement, read to AFP by Adel via satellite phone from the south of the country: "The leaders of Taliban and the military commanders and of course our special guest Osama bin Laden and (Egyptian al-Qaeda leader) Ayman al-Zawahiri are in Afghanistan and are alive, busy planning anti-American operation plans." Both together in Afghanistan? Well, then we donât have to worry about compromising Pakistans territorial sovereignty. Thank you very much.
Posted by: Steve ||
02/23/2004 8:35:01 AM ||
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Pakistani tribesmen in the rugged semi-autonomous region bordering Afghanistan have handed over dozens of people suspected of sheltering Al-Qaeda militants, a government official said. Threatened by the prospect of a large-scale Pakistan military offensive to seize the suspects, tribal elders bowed to pressure and presented authorities with the Al-Qaeda sympathisers. "About 60 percent of those linked to al-Qaeda or working as facilitators have been handed over to the local authorities," the official told AFP. The official did not say how many suspects had been detained but security sources said earlier said authorities were looking for some 90 people accused of offering shelter to al-Qaeda and Taliban fugitives in the mountainous South Waziristan area along the eastern Afghan border. Afghan officials suspect that tribesmen in South Waziristan provide sanctuary to militants involved in attacks against the US-led coalition and Afghan forces in the Afghan provinces of Khost, Paktia and Paktika. The tribal elders handed over the accused over the past few days following a February 20 deadline given by the government last week. However, Information Minister Sheikh Rashid told AFP on Monday that "no offensive has been launched so far. Troops have been deployed in the area to plug the entry of undesired elements."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/23/2004 8:34:04 AM ||
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So far the tribesemen have handed over OTHER TRIBESMEN, who in turn had previously protected AQ types. A first step, I suppose, but not the same as getting any AQ types. IIUC its been some months since Pak has captured any senior AQ. None since the attacks on Musharraf. One hopes its because theyre carefully laying the groundwork, not avoiding the whole thing.
#3
LH, clearing out local supporters is what it looks like: Pakistan has massed more than 70,000 soldiers in the tribal area, and they are escalating their search for local Al Qaeda sympathizers before a major new assault against the terrorist network in the mountainous region, the officials said.
The latest operation offers an example of what U.S. officials have described as a dramatic improvement in the level of cooperation from Pakistan in the hunt for Al Qaeda fugitives.
The 70,000 soldiers include paramilitary forces, regular soldiers and specially trained commandos, said Pakistan's military spokesman, Gen. Shaukat Sultan. "They are ready and prepared for any operation at any time," he said.
Pakistani troops are deployed all along the 1,500-mile border region, but their current searches are focused on two of the seven semiautonomous tribal areas, South Waziristan and North Waziristan, which have long been suspected of harboring Al Qaeda fugitives. The number of foreign Al Qaeda fighters hiding in the area can probably be counted in the dozens, military officials say. But they are helped by a far larger community of local sympathizers, including tribesmen and religious leaders who offer shelter and act as guards, facilitators, couriers and tipsters, alerting the fugitives to operations.
The latest Pakistani operation is focused on identifying and detaining Al Qaeda's local collaborators to gather information about possible terrorist hideouts and to reduce the space in which the fugitives can operate, one Pakistani official said.
Posted by: Steve ||
02/23/2004 12:16 Comments ||
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NY Times says they caught 48 of the 82 they were looking for in the current sweep, and that all these were low level guys who knew little.
OTOH they report diplo and govt sources in Kabul saying Pakistan is finally really on board.
JPost Reg Reqâd
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon told the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on Monday that he is freezing implementation of the US-backed roadkillroad map peace initiative. meaning the disengagement and wall building continues
Sharon also said that he intends to present his disengagement plan before US President George Bush in March when he plans to visit Washington. "There will not be peace with the current Palestinian leadership," the prime minister said.
Nor, my guess is, will there by peace with the next Paleostinian leadership...
Sharon told members of the committee that he reached this decision coming to the realization that the Palestinians were not fulfilling their part of the road map, Ynet reported. tap tap.....
Sharon also reportedly said that he is not willing to discuss the disengagement plan with the Palestinians since they would see it as a way to avoid the road map ? Avoid? Itâs dead already. Implement the disengagement and let the seething begin
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/23/2004 7:29:47 AM ||
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The Pentagon is moving elements of a supersecret commando unit from Iraq to the Afghanistan theater to step up the hunt for Osama bin Laden.
If they're moving them into place they probably have some sort of fix on his location...
A Defense Department official said there are two reasons for repositioning parts of Task Force 121: First, most high-value human targets in Iraq, including Saddam Hussein, have been caught or killed. Second, intelligence reports are increasing on the whereabouts of bin Laden, the terror leader behind the September 11 attacks.
Rumors of which we've seen for the past couple days...
Task forces typically change names when they move, so it is likely that the commando unit arriving in the Afghanistan-Pakistan region will take a new name.
How about "Bob"?
Task Force 121 is a mix of Army Delta Force soldiers and Navy SEALs, transported on helicopters from the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment. The SEALs and soldiers are based at Joint Special Operations Command in Fort Bragg, N.C. Basically, they are a can of major, superpower kick a^*!
Delta-SEAL teams typically move into theater, practice missions and wait for military and CIA intelligence to provide the location of a target, such as Saddam. The new task force to hunt bin Laden in the Afghanistan area likely will be led by a Navy SEAL who was toasted in Washington while working antiterrorism issues in the Bush administration. The Washington Times is withholding his name because of the secret nature of the operation.
Call him Bob, too...
Military sources said reports of bin Ladenâs movements are becoming more numerous as the fugitive Saudi, leader of the al Qaeda terrorist network, hides in the mountainous terrain straddling the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. "Theyâre getting better intelligence, and theyâve gotten better at fusing the intelligence," a second defense source said. Go ye, read the whole darn thing.
Posted by: Dragon Fly ||
02/23/2004 5:56:27 AM ||
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Right nice of them to withhold his name. Journalists sure are thoughtful people.
#5
I don't know--why call the task force "Bob"? The Army of Steve⢠has been doing a great job, and I don't think we should change horses in midstream.
Posted by: Dar ||
02/23/2004 9:06 Comments ||
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I believe it's obvious, "Task Force Bob" is just one of many factions of the Army of Steve. We also have "Mike's Marauders" , "Raptor's Raiders" and the "Front of Frank".
Posted by: Steve ||
02/23/2004 9:18 Comments ||
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Gromky, because the source is the Wash Times, I would guess this is from Bill Gertz. My impression of Bill, is that he is a patriot and would be unlikely to out a special operator, who prefers to remain anonymous - the Wash Post will leak the name soon if you are interested.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
02/23/2004 9:23 Comments ||
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#8
I prefer "jihad of johns"....
Posted by: john ||
02/23/2004 10:45 Comments ||
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#9
I don't care what they call themselves, as long as they end up with Bin Laden by the short hairs.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
02/23/2004 11:04 Comments ||
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#10
binnys doomeds, gonna be a big old celebration when they coller this fuckwit clown
#12
I do not want to get to excited or jump the gun, but I do have my packaged ululator next to my home defense rifle (and spare grenades hanging on their pins on coathooks.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
02/23/2004 13:53 Comments ||
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Roger that, Alaska Paul!
Mine's a little dusty 'cause I haven't used it since we found Saddam.
Good hunting and God Bless to Task Force 121.
Remember: No trials. Kill Osama dead. Ditto Mullah Omar.
#14
Jenny---DOA is OK, but a live Osama in Gitmo. Parade him around in front of his buddies, then back to sea for a colorful keelhaul. Arrrr!!!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
02/23/2004 17:00 Comments ||
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i would like to see usama dead but that would make him a martyr in his buddies eyes. better to give him life in a prison liek folsom and make him have to lisen to chaineys speeches all day and country music all night.
Brian Taylor, a Marine reservist, servied in Fox Company, Second Battalion, 23rd Marines during Operation Iraqi Freedom. The Wall Street Journal published his diary in serial form. Parts 1, 2, 3, and 4 appeared in previous weeks. Hereâs an excerpt from the final installment:
0757Z--Yesterday we secured a water treatment facility near where we entered the city. It was a suspected WMD site but we find no evidence. We also find no fighters here, just a few families and employees. We gave rations to the families to thank them for their cooperation while we figured out what it might take to restart this place.
And today we are back here again to guard it from looters.--38SMB 56278339
Another critical omission occurs to me. In every operation weâve participated in, the sound of Islamic prayer has provided the soundtrack. Mosques are everywhere and five times daily, including dawn and sunset, the musical chant of Islamic prayer rings out from the towers. During our terrible fight on the 8th, the sound was there. And the next morning prayer noise provided an eerie melodic counterpoint to the artillery barrage that reduced the compounds. Marines listen to the prayers with suspicion. After all, it was Islamic fundamentalists that sparked the war on terror by smashing 767s into the Trade Towers. And I have never been convinced that those were the actions of "extremists" and not in character with the true teachings of Islam.
Some Marines have a far more specific suspicion about the wailing imam in their towers. They suggest that they are broadcasting our positions to Iraqi fighters. But the prayers sound recorded, and our translators would surely notice such a scheme.
Posted by: Mike ||
02/23/2004 4:50:29 AM ||
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GREAT SERIES! This young man paints a realistic picture of the march to Baghdad for his marine company.
A suicide car bombing has killed at least six people at a police station in the Iraqi city of Kirkuk, reports say. The BBCâs Stephen Sackur at the scene says a car exploded in a ball of fire in a Kurdish neighbourhood. The blast is at least the fourth since the beginning of the year to target Iraqi security services. US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld arrived in Baghdad on a previously unannounced visit shortly after the blast took place. Our correspondent says the attack in Kirkuk was clearly aimed at Iraqi police. There were no Americans present when the bomber struck, he says. As many as 400 people were at the station, in the Rahimawa neighbourhood, when the blast took place as one shift was replacing another. US forces have now cordoned off the scene, he says, and medical teams are clearing away body parts.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
02/23/2004 3:34:15 AM ||
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Islam was an illegal religion because the Koran preached violence against Christians and Jews, a Christian group told a judge yesterday. Back in the 60s, there was a commotion in the Commonwealth when Zambian president Julius Nyerere banned the Jehovahâs Witnesses as a "public nuisance." Imagine the uproar, not excluding that from car bombs and Michael Mooreâs mouth, if the Oz courts actually bought this argument and moved to ban the RoP. I mention Moore because he is practically a living god to Oz lefties, enjoying about the same status among the down-under Pinko element that the late Hirohito possessed in pre-war Japan.
The groupâs barrister, David Perkins, said that Christianity was established under Australiaâs constitution and had special protection, especially through the blasphemy law. Mr Perkins told the Victorian and Civil Administrative Tribunal that if the stateâs new religious hatred law intended to fetter the teaching of Christian doctrine it was invalid. Victoriaâs Racial and Religious Tolerance Act 2001 referred to lawful religion, and it was in that sense, he said, that by preaching violence Islam was disqualified. This act is then used to silence Christians who fail to adhere to the politico-cultural orthodoxy. As usual, Orwell saw it coming.
"The Koran contradicts Christian doctrine in a number of places and, under the blasphemy law, is therefore illegal," he said. In the first case under the act, the Islamic Council of Victoria has complained that Catch the Fire Ministries, Pastor Danny Nalliah and speaker Daniel Scot, also a pastor, vilified Muslims at a seminar in March 2002. Opening the defence yesterday, Mr Perkins said Christianity was embedded in the constitution. He said the law still entitled Christian religious principles to a special place. He said the reference in the constitution to the people "humbly relying on the blessing of Almighty God" referred to Christianity and was inserted at the request of Christians. He said Australiaâs blasphemy law - still in force, if little used - took precedence over the state act, and the Victorian Parliament could not legislate away protection given by the blasphemy law. The law of self-preservation should also come into play at some point but it is not thus far codified. OTOH, if the blasphemy law were enforced, the denizens of Melbourneâs pubs and nightclubs would be rounded up and imprisoned en masse.
Mr Perkins cited the Choudhury case in England, involving Salman Rushdieâs book The Satanic Verses, which held that the blasphemy law protected only Christianity, not Islam. An excellent precedent
Judge Michael Higgins asked if Mr Perkins meant that the Victorian law did not protect Muslims? Mr Perkins replied: "Yes."
Judge Higgins: "So it might protect Christians but not Muslims from vilification?"
Mr Perkins: "Yes."
Judge Higgins said a no-case submission claiming the seminar was exempt as a religious activity would fail "at this time", so Mr Perkins withdrew the application. The judge said it was "strongly open" that the seminar breached the act. He based this on listening to the tape of the seminar, evidence of the effect it had on the complainants, expert evidence about Pastor Scotâs references to the Koran, and that the seminar was not limited to academic study of what the Koran says about jihad. He said the seminar described the attitudes of a small group of fundamentalist Muslims who "lack association with those Muslim people who live and work peacefully in this community".
He's talking about the guys with the dynamite...
Judge Higgins also mentioned an attempt to influence the court, when a member of the public sent a letter and two CDs to him. "I want to make it clear to all here it is not appropriate conduct," he told the gallery. "What took place was not sinister, but a failure to understand not only protocols but the most important aspect, the independence of the trial judge." Judge Higgins said the sent items had not influenced him. Catch the Fire Ministries is not exactly a poster-child for secular modernism itself, since they claim among other things that Catholicism is not really Christianity (though they donât claim it is illegal), but their defense does raise some interesting questions about the status of Islam in countries that do in fact have an established Christian church.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy ||
02/23/2004 3:12:59 AM ||
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Oops, forgot that my Rantburg cookie had crumbled. This one is mine, so Michael Moore fans and osama bin Laden groupies should issue their fatwas accordingly.
I am an atheist, btw, but I choose to support my Jewish and Christian neighbors in this global war to preserve Judeo-Christian civilization (and what we have really is that, heathen commie propaganda notwithstanding).
The reason for my stance is simple. Since I can't shoot all of them (though I promise to try if it comes to that), the Islamofascists would gleefully hang me from the nearest tree, if not worse, for expressing disbelief in their barbarous moon god cult.
Christians may not like my beliefs, or lack of them, but I am in little danger of a lynching, let alone legal execution.
I am also an atheist, view the WoT as clash between secular science and technology driven societies and religous fundamentalism (which for the purposes of this discussion includes much of the Left). I know who going to win. I'm just not sure of the body count required to get there.
#3
You guy's are right,this"Clash of Civilazations" has been comeing for a long time.
I'm a Christian,and it doesn't matter a whole lot if you guy's believe in God or not I like ya anyway.
#4
Thank G-d I'm an athiest. Just kidding, couldn't help it......
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
02/23/2004 8:27 Comments ||
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#5
If crusades are done by Christians, I wonder what a "holy" war led by athiests would be called? Re-eduacation campaign? Reason-ade? any ideas?
Posted by: N Guard ||
02/23/2004 10:05 Comments ||
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#6
As a Buddhist, I don't need to follow church, mosque, or temple to believe in God, that's submitting to humans concepts of the divine. God isn't an ego, God is physical reality. At least Christians-Jews have a good heart, that's the side I'll be on when the world clashes.
#7
Just a quick correction. Nyerere was never president of Zanbia. I think it was Tanzania. Zambia has had three presidents; Kaunda, Ciluba and the current Levy Mwanawasa. Useless info, I know.
#8
N. Guard
I'm not equating atheists with the commies (I would share a foxhole with any of the RB atheists), but the first atheist crusade was called the October Revolution.
#9
Kwame - welcome to Rantburg. Yep, Julius Nyrere was the first president of Tanganyika/Tanzania. Good catch. It may be "worthless information", but it's a typical Rantburg U comment! 8^).
Whitecollar redneck: Actually, the October Revolution was an attempt to replace the religion of Christianity with the Orthodoxy of Marxism - both equally required blind faith. THe biggest difference is that even Marx determined in his later years that his early work, "Das Kapital" had serious flaws - something the Communist orthodoxy deeply buried from the "masses". It was a source of power, and that's all that mattered.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
02/23/2004 12:37 Comments ||
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Kwame is right of course.
It was Kenneth Kaunda who banned the JWs. I was thinking about Nyerere in connection with the overthrow of Idi Amin and just had a brain fart on this post.
Incidentally, as Kwame probably knows but others may not, Frederick Chiluba was a hard-core Christian fundamentalist and officially declared Zambia to be a Christian nation in 1994.
He was in various kinds of trouble over it for the rest of his term as President, with international meddlers activists devoting all sorts of coverage to his sometimes off-the-wall rhetoric, occasional unpleasantness toward the opposition (he called a rival a "satanist" in print) and, horror of horrors, his relationship with the wicked Pat Robertson.
These do-gooders are even-handed though, they spared nearly (but not quite) as much attention for the various slave-traders, torturers, mass-murderers, and friends of Saddam Hussein in the Islamic countries of Africa.
Chiluba defied all known standards of PC after 9-11 when he declared that Zambia would ``stand with the United States to fight international terrorism for preservation of Christian values and democracy.''
Wretchard at Belmont Club does an admirable job of examining an article by the deranged idiotarian Middle East Expert and NYT "Journalist", Thomas Friedman, in the Salt Lake Tribune.
The article is notable as yet another self-absorbed Phriedman Phantasy with several factory-installed Coffee Alerts.
In this thrilling episode Iraq, an obvious Vietnam quagmire of the bumbling US President Bush, has nearly been brought to its knees, the fateful and fatal tipping point, by wily and vicious terrorist attacks in a dastardly attempt to undermine the brave UNâs Herculean efforts to bring Democracy and Justice and Certifiable Legitimacy to that troubled land.
Enter The Plan - a masterful series of daring statements, acts of contrition, strokes of genius, and Donk wet dreams. Mssr. Phriedman is certain to be considered for an Oscar nomination for this script. With Tim Russert as foil, our hero, President Kerry, will devastate the enemy. I smell Oscar gold. Itâs a sure winner. 8^>
Fun reading for the informed as Wretchard rocks in his inimitable style. Enjoy...
Posted by: .com ||
02/23/2004 3:05:12 AM ||
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#1
what--no quotes from tommy boy about deep exchange of substrata arab cultural knowledge with well known egyptian intellectual baba ganoush over shared puffs from a water bong in a cairo sheesha parlour--damn the boy is losin' his multi culti pomo homo touch
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI ||
02/23/2004 5:01 Comments ||
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#2
This is, if nothing else, an interesting look inside the mind of man who teeters back and forth between sanity and madness.
#3
B - Are you sure you don't mean "between insanity and madness"? :-p
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
02/23/2004 10:38 Comments ||
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#4
Tommy F. calls for John K. to "choke off" OIL dollars flowing to Islamist totalitarians, THEN advocates dispatching Secretary of State Dean [he had to be given a job in exchange for his email list of contributors] to argue our case, "bolstering our [Islamist totalitarian] allies".Forget the fact some of the most offensive Islamist totalitarians are not oil producers. Tommy F.'s prescription for PEACE would bring ECONOMIC RUIN upon the US economy which is the goal of the ISLAMIST FASCIST TERRORISTS.Recall is was LEFTIST TOTALITARIANS like Tommy F. who choked off OIL dollars flowing to patriotic, freedom loving AMERICAN OILMEN drilling in the USA making US more dependent on MIDEAST OIL. For some reason, I do not believe Tommy F. and John K. will permit drilling for OIL and natural gas off the shores of California, in ANWR and on public lands.
#5
But, but... Kerry told James Hoffa that he 'was going to be drilling all over the place'. Apparently that was good enough for the Teamsters to hand him their endorsement.
Whenever there seems to be a disconnect between what a person says and what he does... go with the actions every time.
#7
ahhhh... adopting Gary Hart's platform, hmmmm ,Sgt. DT?
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/23/2004 16:40 Comments ||
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#8
You would be surprised, or would you, of people's ignorance about Heinz and John
Fonda Kerry. I talked to a NAM vet today who didn't even realize that Kerry engaged in Anti American activities on his return from his "shortened tour" in NAM. HE does now. Keep spreading the word. People need to know what these people are about. I've ranted and said my piece for now.
During the 1980s, Pakistan received about $25 billion (a conservative estimate) from various sources and most of these resources were totally unencumbered. Every country in the so-called free world as well as China was giving us generous assistance in cash and kind throughout this period in return for the âservicesâ we were rendering to the US in its war against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. During this period, Pakistan was getting at least $3 billion on an average annually in remittances from overseas workers, who would send another $3 billion in kind as well every year. One recalls a State Bank of Pakistan circular in those days which had asked NCBs not to make public the amount of remittances they were receiving from overseas Pakistanis. When enquiries were made to find out why this circular was issued, it was explained in hushed tones that the government did not want the multilateral agencies to know how much we were getting from this source. The reasons for this secrecy were obvious.
Meanwhile, in those days Pakistan was one of the major producers of poppy and was siphoning off weapons from supplies going through Pakistan to the Afghan âjihadisâ and selling them in the open market. The Ojhri camp incident is quoted as evidence of the post-Afghan war cover-up of this trade. However, when Ziaul Haq died in August 1988, there was nothing on the ground to show where all these resources had gone. The then caretaker finance minister, Dr. Mehbubul Haq, had to rush to the IMF for emergency assistance to save the country from certain default. The assumption, therefore, is that most of the resources, legitimate as well as illegitimate, that we received during the period of the âfree lunchâ were pissed away siphoned off and were spent on our nuclear programme. The total amount spent on the bomb, the missiles and the two-low intensity conflicts would certainly be more than $10 billion - more likely about $15 billion. The rest (from the $25 billion) was perhaps pocketed by the people who ran the first Afghan war from Pakistan on behalf of the US and the CIA.
That would make Qazi and Fazl and Sami very rich men, indeed...
Many in the world and even inside the country wonder why, after having established that Dr A.Q. Khan was the main source of proliferation over the last so many years, the international community led by the US is not blaming this country or its government. The reason is simple. The US in its present war against terrorism needs us as badly as it did in the 1980s when it was fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan. It was during this period that we were trying to acquire nuclear capability. The US knew about it. And like now, then too the US media would frequently run stories about our covert nuclear activities. In fact in 1985, we told the world ourselves that we had perfected a basement bomb. Dr. A.Q. Khan had claimed in a secretly arranged interview to an Indian journalist (of all persons) that he had cold tested a device. On November 1, 1986, The Washington Post ran a banner headline saying Pakistan had hot tested its device. This story was filed by Bob Woodword of Watergate fame, whose connection with the then CIA chief William Casey was revealed by Woodword himself in his book The Veil. Meanwhile, successive US presidents were giving us certificates (under the Pressler amendment) that we were not making the bomb. Like now, then too the US administration had ostensibly disagreed with its own media because it needed our help in Afghanistan. But, intriguingly, at the same time, as today, the CIA was also leaking to its media in the 1980s stories about Pakistanâs nuclear programme. Why? Perhaps to keep India from threatening Pakistanâs security at a time when its army is engaged in Afghanistan.
Today the situation is different. India has become a good friend of the US. So, before implicating Pakistan publicly in the nuclear proliferation scandal, using the Khan angle, the US saw to it that tensions between India and Pakistan were replaced by a peace initiative. Apparently, the US has managed to keep Pakistan free of worries on the southern borders while Washington keeps us engaged in the north. Its forces are likely to remain in the region for another 10 to 15 years. During this period at least, Washington is not likely to see anything happen to Pakistan. But let us keep our fingers crossed at least for the next couple of years.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
02/23/2004 2:15:25 AM ||
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All that extra cash in the wrong hands. I wonder how much money that Spencer's Corporation made selling decorations to the Pakistani neuvo-rich.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
02/23/2004 11:38 Comments ||
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The Islamic extremist group Al Qaeda is âinvolved and activeâ in Iraq, where terrorist groups are trying to stir up trouble between ethnic and religious group, US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said on Sunday during a stopover in Ireland at the start of a foreign trip. After warning that terrorist groups were trying to spark factional warfare between Iraqâs ethnic and religious groups, Rumsfeld told reporters: âThere is also no doubt in my mind that several things are happening. âOne is a coincidence of interests between terrorist networks plus former regime members plus some criminals. Second, some among them are clearly attempting to foment strife between various religious and ethnic groups. Hoping that they will advantage themselves and disadvantage coalition forces.â When pressed on exactly who was trying to stir up trouble, he said: âTerrorist networks.â Asked whether he believed that that Al Qaeda was active in Iraq, he replied: âThey are clearly involved and active.â Rumsfeld added that the Iraqi people did not like such interference, and that volunteers were still lining up to join the police and army, despite a series of deadly attacks on those forces.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/23/2004 12:58:43 AM ||
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PPP Chairperson and former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto has said the architect of Pakistanâs atomic bomb Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan was âcovering upâ by publicly confessing to transferring nuclear technology to other countries for President General Pervez Musharraf. Former Premier Benazir feared that Khanâs life could be in danger âbecause he knows too much about the people who ordered him to export nuclear technology,â she told BBC on Sunday.
Wot? His life in danger? Who'da thunkit?
âWe think that General Musharraf has endangered our nuclear assets and our countryâs reputation by involving himself in the export of nuclear technology and he has no business to remain in power,â she said, adding âpeople in my country think that Dr Khan is being made a scapegoat and they believe that he is being kept under arrest and he could even be killed to silence him forever because he knows too much about the people who ordered him to export nuclear technology.â She further said âI know Dr Khan and I found it very hard to believe that he could have exported nuclear technology on his own. One person could not do it because of the enormous security.â
That's today's statement of the obvious...
Meanwhile, in a separate interview with ARY television channel, Benazir Bhutto said India and Israel too have nuclear technology but they do not export this to other countries. Asked as to what she would do if she had been the Prime Minister of Pakistan, she replied âWe would not have exported our nuclear secrets to others. There was no need to transfer this to North Korea or Libya,â she added.
She could be telling the truth. That's probably why they never told her about what they were doing. Why take the chance she is?
She further said it is being said that briefcases full of money were flown to Pakistan from a country, asking âwho did take that money and who will be held accountable for this?â
Have you checked the pockets of the generals, especially the really, really devout ones?
âPakistan has been betrayed and it is a major setback for the country,â she said and added âI think that it is a major incident after the East Pakistan tragedy.â She further said on the one hand General Musharraf declares that Pakistan has effective nuclear command and control system while on the other he says that a scientist can individually sell nuclear secrets to others, alleging âGeneral Musharraf has mishandled the (nuclear) issue.â
Ummm... Benazir doesn't have a lot of room for criticism...
She regretted that Dr Khan is still in detention and he was threatened and compelled to confess to transferring nuclear technology to other countries. âHe was told that he will be pardoned if he makes a confessional statement. Through a confessional statement by Dr Khan, we have conveyed to the international community that our nuclear command and control system is not much effective, that an individual indulged in this practice,â she said, adding this has given a wrong message to the world that âwe make thieves our heroes.'â
I get it more as you lionize thieves.
She further said âI do not agree with the reports that Dr Khan acted on his own. I believe that the General ordered him to (make a confessional statement). The General has endangered our nuclear programme and should be held accountable for mishandling the nuke issue,â she added.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/23/2004 12:54:10 AM ||
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probably spoken from a house built by the funds her husband stole from pakland--pot meet kettle--no tea necessary--just steep dinars in cesspool of corruption of the pak political class
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI ||
02/23/2004 2:40 Comments ||
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Apologies in advance for the length, but thereâs a lot of info here that I hadnât seen corroborated all in one place before.
A team of CIA operators from the agencyâs Counterterrorist Center flew to Dushanbe, Tajikistan, in October 1999. Code-named JAWBREAKER-5, the group was led by the chief of the centerâs Osama bin Laden unit, known to his colleagues as Rich, a veteran of CIA postings in Algiers and elsewhere in the developing world. They went to a secluded airfield, boarded an old Soviet-made Mi-17 transport helicopter, and swooped toward the jagged, snow-draped peaks of northern Afghanistan. Their aim was to revive secret intelligence and combat operations against bin Laden in partnership with guerrilla commander Ahmed Shah Massoud, leader of the Northern Alliance, a ragged coalition of Afghan fighters, many of them veterans of the war against the Soviets. Massoudâs hardened militiamen clung to their positions in the stark Panjshir Valley. "We have a common enemy," the CIA team leader told Massoud, according to participants, referring to bin Laden. "Letâs work together."
Massoud remained Afghanistanâs most formidable military commander. A sinewy man with penetrating dark eyes, he had become a charismatic, popular leader, especially in northeastern Afghanistan. There he had fought and negotiated with equal imagination during the 1980s, punishing and frustrating Soviet occupation forces. He was an impressive tactician, an attentive student of Mao and other guerrilla leaders. He was above all an independent man. He surrounded himself with books. He prayed piously, read Persian poetry and studied Islamic theology. During the mid-1990s his militia forces had at times engaged in horrendous massacres, however. American and British drug enforcement officials continued to accuse his men of opium and heroin smuggling.
By 1999, Massoud was seen by some at the Pentagon and inside the Clinton Cabinet as a spent force commanding bands of thugs. An inner circle of the Cabinet with access to the most closely guarded secrets was sharply divided over whether the United States should deepen its partnership with him. Secretary of State Madeleine K. Albright and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Henry H. "Hugh" Shelton -- reflecting the views of professional analysts in their departments -- argued that Massoudâs alliance was tainted and in decline. But at the CIA, especially inside the Counterterrorist Center, career officers passionately described Massoud by 1999 as the United Statesâ last, best hope to capture or kill bin Laden in Afghanistan before his al Qaeda network claimed more American lives. Massoud might be a flawed ally, they declared, but bin Laden was by far the greater danger.
This article, detailing the CIAâs pursuit of bin Laden from 1999 to 2001, is based on several dozen interviews with participants and officials in the United States, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, as well as documents, private records and memoirs about the CIA covert action program in Afghanistan. Frightened by swelling intelligence reports warning that al Qaeda planned new terrorist strikes, President Bill Clintonâs national security adviser, Samuel R. "Sandy" Berger, and his counterterrorism director, Richard Clarke, approved the JAWBREAKER-5 mission. They were uneasy about Massoud but said they were ready to try anything within reason that might lead to bin Ladenâs capture or death. Massoud was at war across northern Afghanistan against the Taliban, whose puritan mullahs had allied themselves with bin Ladenâs al Qaeda fighters in a drive to control all Afghan territory and destroy Massoudâs coalition. Massoudâs men often maneuvered in battle against bin Ladenâs brigade of Arab volunteers, as well as al Qaeda-sponsored Pakistani volunteers and Chechen fighters. Ultimately, Cofer Black, then director of the CIAâs Counterterrorist Center, hoped Massoud would capture bin Laden during one of these engagements and either kill him or hand him over for trial.
In dimly lit Panjshir Valley safe houses in October 1999, Massoud told the JAWBREAKER-5 team that he was willing to deepen his partnership with the CIA, but he was explicit about his limitations. Bin Laden spent most of his time near the southern city of Kandahar, in the eastern Afghan mountains, far from where Massoudâs forces operated. Occasionally bin Laden visited Jalalabad or Kabul, closer to the Northern Allianceâs lines. In these areas Massoudâs intelligence service had active agents, and perhaps they could develop more sources. Massoud also told the CIA delegation that U.S. policy toward bin Laden and Afghanistan was doomed to fail. The Americans directed all of their efforts against bin Laden and a handful of his senior aides, but they failed to see the larger context in which al Qaeda thrived. What about the Taliban? What about the Talibanâs supporters in Pakistani intelligence? What about its financiers in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates? "Even if we succeed in what you are asking for," Massoud told the CIA delegation, his aide and interpreter Abdullah recalled, "that will not solve the bigger problem that is growing."
The CIA officers told Massoud they agreed with his critique, but they had their orders. The U.S. government rejected a military confrontation with the Taliban or direct support for any armed factions in the broader Afghan war. Instead, U.S. policy focused on capturing bin Laden and his lieutenants for criminal trial or killing them in the course of an arrest attempt. If Massoud helped with this narrow mission, the CIA officers argued, perhaps it would lead to wider political support or development aid in the future. "What was irritating was that in this whole tragedy, in this whole chaotic situation," recalled one of Massoudâs intelligence aides who worked closely with the CIA during this period, "they were talking about this very small piece of it: bin Laden. And if you were on our side, it would have been very difficult for you to accept that this was the problem. For us it was an element of the problem but not the problem." Still, Massoud and his aides agreed they had nothing to lose by helping the CIA. "First of all, it was an effort against a common enemy," recalled Abdullah. "Second, we had the hope that it would get the U.S. to know better about the situation in Afghanistan."
Massoud had a long and checkered history with the CIA. Among those with the proper security clearances, the accusations and stories of perfidy had become legend. The CIA first sent Massoud aid in 1984. But their relations were undermined by the CIAâs heavy dependence on Pakistan during the war against the Soviets. The Pakistani intelligence service despised Massoud because he had waged a long and brutal campaign against Pakistanâs main Islamic radical client, the warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. As the war against the Soviets ended, Pakistani intelligence sought to exclude Massoud from the victory, and the CIA mainly went along. But under pressure from the State Department and members of Congress, the agency eventually reopened its private channels to Massoud. In 1990 the CIAâs secret relationship with Massoud soured because of a dispute over a $500,000 payment. Gary Schroen, a CIA officer then working from Islamabad, Pakistan, had delivered the cash to Massoudâs brother in exchange for assurances that Massoud would attack Afghan communist forces along a key artery, the Salang Highway. But Massoudâs forces never moved, so far as the CIA could tell. Schroen and other officers believed they had been ripped off for half a million dollars. Schroen, who has now agreed to be publicly identified, renewed contact with Massoud during a solo visit to Kabul in September 1996. By then bin Laden had found sanctuary in Afghanistan, and the CIA sought allies to watch and disrupt al Qaeda. Schroen and Massoud settled their old dispute. (Massoud claimed he had never received the $500,000.) The guerrilla leader agreed to cooperate on a secret CIA program to repurchase Stinger antiaircraft missiles. He sold the agency eight missiles he still possessed and began to talk sporadically with Langley about intelligence operations against bin Laden.
Schroen met Massoud again in the spring of 1997 at his new headquarters in Taloqan, in Afghanistanâs far north. By then, the Taliban had stormed into Kabul and seized the capital as Massoud withdrew. Looking to win American favor for his prolonged war against the Taliban and its foreign Islamic militant allies, Massoud began to buy up Stingers across the north for the CIA. He also agreed to notify the agency if he got a line on bin Ladenâs whereabouts. A series of clandestine CIA teams carrying electronic intercept equipment and relatively small amounts of cash -- up to $250,000 per visit -- began to visit Massoud in the Panjshir Valley. The first formal group, code-named NALT-1, flew on one of Massoudâs helicopters from Dushanbe to the Panjshir Valley late in 1997. Three other teams had gone in by the summer of 1999. The electronic intercept equipment they delivered allowed Massoud to monitor Taliban battlefield radio transmissions. In exchange the CIA officers asked Massoud to let them know immediately if his men ever heard accounts on the Taliban radios indicating that bin Laden or his top lieutenants were on the move in a particular sector.
Given the doubts about Massoud inside the Clinton administration, the CIAâs push to deepen its partnership with him faced close scrutiny at the White House. The National Security Councilâs intelligence policy and legal offices drafted formal, binding guidance. Massoud was at war with the Taliban. The United States had declared a policy of official neutrality toward that war as a co-sponsor of all-party peace talks, which dragged on inconclusively. Clinton enacted economic sanctions against the Taliban but was unwilling to fund or arm Massoud. The White House sought to ensure that the CIAâs counterterrorism mission in the Panjshir Valley concentrated only on bin Laden. The administration did not want the CIA to use its intelligence-collection and counterterrorism partnership with Massoud for a secret, undeclared war against the Taliban. Clinton told his top national security aides that he was prepared to work with Massoud on intelligence operations, despite what he saw as a record of brutality, but he was not ready to arm the Northern Alliance, participants recalled. The Pentagon and the intelligence community both provided secret analysis to Clinton arguing that Massoud had all the weapons he needed from other suppliers, the president recounted later to colleagues. In any event, Clinton recalled, Massoud would never be able to defeat the Taliban or govern Afghanistan from Kabul.
At the White House, some national security aides briefed on the CIAâs missions feared that, as with the Salang Highway operation in 1990, Massoud would just take the CIAâs cash and sit on his hands. In the end, the National Security Council approved written guidance to authorize intelligence cooperation with Massoud. But the highly classified documents made clear that the CIA could provide no equipment or assistance that would, as several officials recalled its thrust, "fundamentally alter the Afghan battlefield."
A few months after the JAWBREAKER-5 team choppered out, the CIAâs Counterterrorist Center picked up intelligence that bin Laden had arrived in Derunta Camp, in a jagged valley near the eastern Afghan city of Jalalabad. It was a typical bin Laden facility: crude, mainly dirt and rocks, with a few modest buildings protected by ridges. Massoudâs sources reported that no Afghans were permitted in Derunta, only Arabs. Testimony from al Qaeda defectors and interrogation of Arab jihadists showed that Derunta was a graduate school for elite recruits. The Defense Intelligence Agency had relayed reports that bin Ladenâs aides might be developing chemical weapons or poisons there. The White Houseâs Counterterrorism Security Group, led by Richard Clarke, routed satellites above the camps for surveillance. The CIA recruited Afghan agents who traveled or lived in the region, an area of heavy smuggling and trade and relatively weak Taliban control. Through their liaison in the Panjshir, CIA officers pushed intelligence-collection equipment to Massoudâs southern lines, near Jalalabad. Besides radio intercepts, the technology included an optical device, derived from technology used by offshore spy planes, that could produce photographic images from a distance of more than 10 miles. Massoudâs men, with help from CIA officers, set up an overlook above Derunta and tried to watch the place.
The Counterterrorist Centerâs bin Laden unit relayed a report to Massoud that bin Laden had arrived in Derunta. Massoud ordered a mission. He rounded up "a bunch of mules," as a U.S. official who was involved later put it, and loaded them up with Soviet-designed Katyusha rockets. He dispatched this small commando team toward the hills above Derunta. After the team was on its way, Massoud reported his plan to Langley: He was going to batter bin Ladenâs camp with rocket fire. The CIAâs lawyers convulsed in alarm. The White House legal rules for liaison with Massoud had not addressed such pure military operations against bin Laden. The Massoud partnership was supposed to be about intelligence collection. Now the CIA had, in effect, provided intelligence for a rocket attack on Derunta. The CIA was legally complicit in Massoudâs operation, the lawyers feared, and the agency had no authority to be involved.
The bin Laden unit shot a message to the Panjshir: Youâve got to recall the mission. Massoudâs aides replied, in effect, as a U.S. official involved recalled it: "What do you think this is, the 82nd Airborne? Weâre on mules. Theyâre gone." Massoudâs team had no radios. They were walking to the launch site. They would fire their rockets, turn around and walk back. Langleyâs officers waited nervously. Some of them muttered sarcastically about the absurd intersections of U.S. law and secret war they were expected to manage. Massoudâs aides eventually reported back that they had, in fact, shelled Derunta. But the CIA could pick up no independent confirmation of the attack or its consequences. The lawyers relaxed and the incident passed, unpublicized.
During 2000 Massoud planned an expanding military campaign against the Taliban and al Qaeda. His strategy was to recruit allies such as the guerrilla leaders Ismail Khan and Abdurrashid Dostum and seed them as pockets of rebellion against Taliban rule in northern and western Afghanistan, where the Taliban was weakest. As these rebel pockets emerged and stabilized, Massoud explained, he would drive toward them with his more formal armored militia, trying to link up on roadways, choking off Taliban-ruled cities and towns. Once he had more solid footing in the north, Massoud planned to pursue the same strategy in the Taliban heartland in the south. He hoped to aid ethnic Pashtun rebels such as Hamid Karzai, a former Afghan deputy foreign minister from a prominent royal tribal family who had been forced into exile in Pakistan. By 1999 Karzai had turned against the Taliban and wanted to lead a rebellion against the militia in its southern homeland around Kandahar. Massoud dispatched aides to meet with Karzai and develop these ideas. In private talks in person and by satellite telephone, Karzai told Massoud he was ready to slip inside Afghanistan and fight. "Donât move into Kandahar," Massoud told him, Karzai later recalled. "You must go to a place where you can hold your base." Massoud invited Karzai to the north. "He was very wise," Karzai recalled. "I was sort of pushy and reckless."
To pursue his plans in a serious way, Massoud needed helicopters, trucks and other vehicles. Some CIA officers working with Massoud wanted to help him by supplying the mobile equipment, cash, training and weapons he would need to expand his war against the Taliban and al Qaeda. Yet as 2000 passed, the CIA struggled to maintain the basics of its intelligence liaison with Massoud. It was difficult and risky for the agencyâs officers to reach the Panjshir Valley. The only practical route was through Tajikistan. From there CIA teams usually took one of the few rusting, patched-together Mi-17 transport helicopters the Northern Alliance managed to keep in the air. On one trip, the Taliban scrambled MiG-21 jets in an effort to shoot down Massoudâs helicopter. If successful, the militia would have discovered American corpses in the wreckage. Even on the best days, the choppers would shake and rattle and the cabin would fill with the smell of fuel. The overland routes were no better. When a CIA team drove in from Dushanbe, one of its vehicles flipped over and a veteran officer dislocated his shoulder.
These reports accumulated on the desk of Deputy Director of Operations James Pavitt, who had overall responsibility for CIA espionage. Pavitt was a blue-eyed, white-haired former case officer and station chief who had served in Europe during the Cold War. Like Director George J. Tenet, who had appointed him, he was a spy manager with a feel for politics. Pavitt began to ask why CIA officers were taking such huge physical risks to work with Massoud. Were they getting enough to justify the possibility of death or injury? Those opposed to the Panjshir missions argued, as one official recalled it, "Youâre sending people to their deaths."
The agency sent out a team of mechanics knowledgeable about Russian helicopters. When Massoudâs men opened up one of the Mi-17s, the mechanics were stunned: They had patched an engine originally made for a Hind attack helicopter into the bay of the Mi-17 transport. It was a flying miracle. Afterward Tenet signed off on a compromise: The CIA would secretly buy its own airworthy Mi-17 helicopter, maintain it properly in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, and use CIA pilots to fly clandestine teams into the Panjshir. But the helicopter issue was a symptom of a larger problem. By the late summer of 2000, the CIAâs liaison with Massoud was fraying on both sides. Frustrated by daunting geography and unable to win support for Massoud in Cabinet debates, the CIAâs officers felt stifled. For their part, Massoudâs aides had hoped their work with the agency would lead to clearer recognition of Afghanistanâs plight in Washington and perhaps covert military aid. They could see no evidence that this was happening. Instead they were badgered repeatedly about mounting a "Hollywood operation," as one of Massoudâs intelligence aides put it, to capture bin Laden alive. The aide likened the mission urged on them by the CIA to a game of chess in which they would have to capture the king without touching any other piece on the board. Massoudâs men asked their CIA counterparts, as this intelligence aide recalled it: "Is there any policy in the government of the American states to help Afghanistan if the people of Afghanistan help you get rid of your most wanted man?"
After the terrorist bombing of the USS Cole in October 2000, in which 17 sailors were killed at Aden, Yemen, the CIAâs Panjshir teams tried to revive their plan to supply Massoud with more extensive and more lethal aid. CIA officers sat down at Langley in November and drew up a specific list of what Massoud needed. In addition to more cash -- to bribe commanders and to counteract a Taliban treasury swollen with Arab money -- Massoud needed trucks, helicopters, light arms, ammunition, uniforms, food and maybe some mortars and artillery. He did not need combat aircraft. Tanks were not a priority. The list of covert supplies they proposed for Massoud would cost between $50 million and $150 million, depending on how aggressive the White House wanted to be. Under the plan, the CIA would establish a permanent base with Massoud in the Panjshir Valley. Rich, the bin Laden unit chief at the Counterterrorist Center, argued that the agencyâs officers had to be down around the campfire constantly with Massoudâs men. The CIA wanted to overcome the confusion and mutual mistrust that had developed with Massoud over operations designed to capture or kill bin Laden. The plan envisioned that CIA officers would go directly into action alongside the Northern Alliance if they developed strong intelligence about bin Ladenâs whereabouts. There would be no more embarrassments like the mission against Derunta.
In the late autumn, Clarke sent a memo outlining the CIAâs proposal to Berger, Clintonâs national security adviser. But they were worse than lame ducks now at the White House. The November presidential election had deadlocked; White House aides were enduring the strangest post-election transition in a century just as the CIAâs paper landed on their desks. The word went back to the Counterterrorist Center: There would be no new covert action program for Massoud.
As the Bush administration took office early in 2001, Massoud retained a Washington lobbyist. He wrote a letter to Vice President Cheney urging the new administration to reexamine its policy toward Afghanistan. He told his advisers he knew he could not defeat the Taliban on the battlefield as long as the ruling militia was funded by bin Laden and reinforced from Pakistan. He sought to build up a new political and military coalition within Afghanistan to squeeze the Taliban and break its grip on ordinary Afghans. For this, sooner or later, he told visitors, he would require the support of the United States. His CIA liaison had slackened, but his intelligence aides still spoke and exchanged messages frequently with Langley. That spring they passed word that Massoud had been invited to France to address the European Parliament. Gary Schroen and Rich flew to Paris to meet with Massoud. They wanted to reassure him that even though the pace of their visits had slowed because of the policy gridlock in Washington, the CIA still intended to keep up its regular installment payments of several hundred thousand dollars as part of their intelligence-sharing arrangements. They also wanted to know how Massoud felt about his military position. Massoud told them that he thought he could defend his lines in the northeast of Afghanistan, but that was about all. The United States had to do something, Massoud told the CIA officers quietly, or eventually he was going to crumble. "If President Bush doesnât help us," Massoud told reporters in Strasbourg a few days later, "then these terrorists will damage the United States and Europe very soon - and it will be too late."
Early in September 2001, Massoudâs intelligence service transmitted a routine classified report to the CIAâs Counterterrorist Center about two Arab television journalists who had crossed Northern Alliance lines from Kabul. The intelligence-sharing between Massoud and the CIA concentrated mainly on Arabs and foreigners in Afghanistan. In this case officers in the bin Laden unit at the Counterterrorist Center took note of the movement of the two Arab journalists. It did not seem of exceptional interest. Members of the Bush Cabinet met at the White House on Sept. 4. Before them was a draft copy of a National Security Presidential Directive, a classified memo outlining a new U.S. policy toward al Qaeda, Afghanistan and Massoud. It had been many months in the drafting. The Bush administrationâs senior national security team had not begun to focus on al Qaeda until April, about three months after taking office. They did not forge a policy approach until July. Then they took still more weeks to schedule a meeting to ratify their plans.
Among other things, the draft document revived almost in its entirety the CIA plan to aid Massoud that had been forwarded to the lame-duck Clinton White House -- and rejected -- nine months earlier. The stated goal of the draft was to eliminate bin Laden and his organization. The plan called for the CIA to supply Massoud with a large but undetermined sum for covert action to support his war against the Taliban, as well as trucks, uniforms, ammunition, mortars, helicopters and other equipment. The Bush Cabinet approved this part of the draft document. Other aspects of the Bush administrationâs al Qaeda policy, such as its approach to the use of armed Predator surveillance drones for the hunt, remained unresolved after the Sept. 4 debate. But on Massoud, the CIA was told that it could at least start the paperwork for a new covert policy -- the first in a decade that sought to influence the course of the Afghan war.
In the Panjshir Valley, unaware of these developments, Massoud read Persian poetry in his bungalow in the early hours of Sept. 9. Later that morning he finally decided to grant an interview to the two Arab journalists visiting from Kabul. As one of them set up a television camera, the other read aloud a list of questions he intended to ask. About half of them concerned bin Laden. A bomb secretly packed in the television equipment ripped the cameramanâs body apart. It shattered the roomâs windows, seared the walls in flame and tore Massoudâs chest with shrapnel. Hours later, after Massoud had been evacuated to Tajikistan, his intelligence aide Amrullah Saleh called the CIAâs Counterterrorist Center. He spoke to Rich, the bin Laden unit chief. Saleh was sobbing and heaving between sentences as he explained what had happened. "Whereâs Massoud?" the CIA officer asked. "Heâs in the refrigerator," said Saleh, searching for the English word for morgue.
Massoud was dead, but members of his inner circle had barely absorbed the news. They were all in shock. They were also trying to strategize in a hurry. They had already put out a false story claiming that Massoud had only been wounded. Meanwhile, Saleh told the Counterterrorist Center, the suddenly leaderless Northern Alliance needed the CIAâs help as it prepared to confront al Qaeda and the Taliban. On the morning of Sept. 10, the CIAâs daily classified briefings to Bush, his Cabinet and other policymakers reported on Massoudâs death and analyzed the consequences for the United Statesâ covert war against al Qaeda. Officers in the Counterterrorist Center, still hopeful that they could maintain a foothold in northern Afghanistan to attack bin Laden, called frantically around Washington to find a way to aid the rump Northern Alliance before it was eliminated. Massoudâs advisers and lobbyists, playing for time, tried to promote speculation that Massoud might still be alive. But privately, as Sept. 10 wore on, phone call by phone call, many of the Afghans closest to the commander began to learn that he was gone.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/23/2004 12:51:24 AM ||
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Was that the news that triggered the go ahead for Atta and his crew?
Posted by: Tokyo Taro ||
02/23/2004 3:04 Comments ||
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Yup.
Just like the assassination of Musharraf was supposed to precede another huge terrorist attack on the U.S. back in December. But, both were thwarted this time.
Makes a lot of sense...right before you kill several thousand kaffirs, rub out their main ally with whom they would have otherwise planned on using against you afterwards.
#3
Massoud had many devoted followers before the assassination and even more afterword. I don't think that the Northern Alliance was too accommidating to the captured Arabs. I wonder if the two journaists were carrying Al Jezeera credentials.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
02/23/2004 9:26 Comments ||
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very interesting. Sooo...ok...going down that road...it follows that they intended to wipe out Musharraf before their next big event...and find it necessary to hold off striking until they do so. (However, I guess it could just be that the actual event of killing Musharraf or Massoud is the only way the cells know that it is time to act - rather than the other way around. )
If killing Massoud was a necessary first step to accomplish prior to 9-11, to protect the BL and the Taliban from a cooperative US/Massoud retaliation that they knew would be forthcoming...then killing Musharraf and destabilizing Pakistan will...?????... will what??
I'm having trouble saying this coherently...bear with me...but...doesn't their need to kill Musharraf first before they act, - tell us a lot about what they intend to do and what they expect us to do next ????
It just seems this logic tells us a whole lot about the current state of the battlefield - but I'm not sure exactly what.
can anybody see what I'm trying to say here and help me out a bit??? I've done it poorly - I know. What exactly does their need to kill Musharraf first tell us??
Posted by: B ||
02/23/2004 10:07 Comments ||
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B, I would say their need to kill Musharraf says that they are 1) expecting him to help us in any retaliation and more importantly, 2) destabilize Pakistan, take control and gain access to nukes. Pretty simple I'd say. Of course, there is a reason that Musharraf is allowing the US to provide or enhance the security of his nuclear arsenal. I'm guessing Bush gave him a choice, have nukes that we protect or we take away your toys. A couple stealths with some 2000 JDAMS could easily make his arsenal disappear.
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/23/2004 11:19 Comments ||
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B, I think TT and Anon are implying is that AQ plans a big strike and a political assasination in the country where they launched the attack from as a package deal. The object being to destabilize the forces that might aid our response. Whether these attacks are planned in parallel or in series is open to debate. The implied big attack in the US would have been the European Airline attack, which was thwarted. It would be interesting to know whether the Egyptian airline of French passangers that went down was some kind of dry run. As far as I know, nobody has claimed credit and the EU is implying poor aircraft maintenance.
Realistically, if Musharif is assasinated, Pakistan will fall into chaos and possibly become a Theocracy with nukes. AQ would like that very much.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
02/23/2004 11:20 Comments ||
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SH: Do you really think India (among a lot of others) would stand for that? It might do AQ a lot of good if Karachi goes up in nuclear smoke, but it wouldn't do much for the Pakistanis. Might be wise to pass that message along to them.
#9
tu301, et al. There is a very good reason why the US has assisted in securing Pakistan's nuclear weapons. From what I understand, we have troops on the ground and the storage facilities. I know they were there, not sure if they are still there though. But I'm sure we are keeping very close tabs on those weapons. There is no way that this Administration will allow those weapons to fall into AQ's (or any whacked out theocracy) hands. I would guess there are several B2's hot in Guam with the GPS coordinates already punched in. The slightest sign of destabilization in Pakistan and those weapons are gone. Then again, we have a pretty good airlift capability in place in Afghanistan, perhaps the plan is to secure and remove them. Who knows, probably both plans are in place. Final word is no way those weapons survive the fall of Pakistan.
#10
This is the saddest part of the whole article: The White House legal rules for liaison with Massoud had not addressed such pure military operations against bin Laden. The Massoud partnership was supposed to be about intelligence collection. Now the CIA had, in effect, provided intelligence for a rocket attack on Derunta. The CIA was legally complicit in Massoudâs operation, the lawyers feared, and the agency had no authority to be involved.
I think that the Clinton team thought that they could deal with OBL the same way that they dealt with their political opponents. Spread some innuendo. Start a few rumors. In their world view, a cruise missile attack was probably the equivalent of an attack ad. Amateurs always base their strategy on what they know rather than what's possible.
#11
TT, do you think that AQ would have called off the 9-11 attack had they known that the Taliban and Sadaam would both fall because of it? I think AQ would have proceeded even though the Taliban regime was a very AQ friendly operation. When your goal is the overthrow of all existing Islamic regimes why would you worry about a few Imans getting their their trip to heaven a little ahead of schedule?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
02/23/2004 13:50 Comments ||
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Interesting comments....thanks for the insight.
Posted by: B ||
02/23/2004 14:05 Comments ||
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SuperHose
The two guys who killed Massoud weren't carrying Al Jazeera credentials. It is probable Massoud's men would have been wary of a such blatantly Islamosfascist media. They said they were sent by a London-based Arab paper (an obscure one). Since Massoud was willing to get some traction in the Arabic media who until then had either pro-taliban or unwilling to expose his views he was much too willing to give them an interview. At one point
they tried to board the helicopter Massoud and all his staff were travelling but they were repulsed (or perhaps the helo was complete). Had they succeeded they would have decapitated the entire NA and post 9/11 American retaliation would have been much more difficult.
As an aside they came through the territorry of Rasul Sayaf, a warlord memeber of the NA but also a wahabi. Rasul Sayaf said he had an afterthought and tried to warn Massoud but I dond't know if it is true.
#15
Duhhh ....maybe why Massoud was whacked a day before 9-11 - because he was one of best chances in afganistan to capture binny..................... anyone who sticks to the point that we are not up against cordinated military style outfits is on a diff plane..........same plane as kerry when say's we have been misled, that the WOT is a police problem..what an asshole! so your gonna send the NYPD against iran???? the only thing the American people have been misled about is the danger terrorist have poised to the US for the entire 90's.....
Posted by: Dan ||
02/23/2004 16:30 Comments ||
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Masood's two killers, posed as Belgian journalists and blew themselves up with Masood during a mock interview in September 2001.
See March 2002 article Belgium Arrests Suspect Tied to Masood Murder
#17
I'm late with this response but I'm closer to Pak land than you guys. It's tuesday morning here. Anyway, remember the US has the codes on Pak's nukes (that's trigger) so they are safe for the time being. Given time they could be recoded but it won't happen. Relax.
EU Justice and Interior Ministers rejected on Thursday an ambitious proposal by Austria calling for the creation of a European Intelligence Agency to reinforce the EUâs actions against terrorism and organised crime. Donât want to upset anyone, do we?
The proposal, set out in a discussion paper presented by Austriaâs Interior Minister Ernst Strasser to his other EU counterparts on Thursday, was to set up a European intelligence service - but without police powers - with the aim of identifying at an early stage potential threats to the EUâs security.
Intel services should never, ever have police powers, as a matter of principle. I'm not sure I even like the idea of police agencies like the FBI having their own intel services. Those are two separate functions, both of them moderately dangerous to individual liberty on their own, that have to potential to become nightmares when combined.
The paper, presented as part of the EUâs Security Strategy adopted last year, highlights the need for a coordinated approach among EU states particularly after the recent series of letter bombs targeted at EU officials. =But there was an unenthusiastic response from Mr Strasserâs colleagues. Irish Justice Minister Michael McDowell, whose country holds the EU presidency, described this document as "very interesting", but said that "there was a strong sense that before we create new agencies we have to learn to walk, before we can run". Yes Minister, we wouldnât want to be too brave, would we.
Germany was also sceptical about the proposal, as it felt it would duplicate work being done by the EUâs umbrella police organisation, Europol. And you never know what else they might discover, do we?
Mr Strasserâs proposals also called for the creation of a European Security Monitor, a European Police Corps as well as having joint meetings between EU Justice and Home affairs ministers and foreign affairs ministers â which currently hold separate monthly meetings. I suppose the good news is that they wonât have more layers of bureaucracies, doing less and less.
Posted by: tipper ||
02/23/2004 12:32:53 AM ||
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'Europol'?? Good grief.
Posted by: Rafael ||
02/23/2004 2:25 Comments ||
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Gods above! You people think it sinister when the EU gets more powers, and you think it even more sinister when it doesn't? Fine, be insane and hypocritical -- I knew you for that already after all.
#3
Heavens, indeed. No one has used "sinister" regards the EU to my knowledge - that's a canard to create drama - AFIK, the EU can't muster anything sinister, except perhaps a chocolate bunny with a particularly demonic look in his eyes. Europol is an EU version (read: duplication) of Interpol, which relies upon Interpol resources, heh - only it's, uh, democratic. Yup. Read and be "informed" by their promo text.
Regards the word "sinister", I would suggest that "comical" is far more accurate regards RB comments. It is best illustrated with examples. The EU bureaucracy ordered a village in Scotland to dismantle the swing in their park for its failure to meet "EU Standards" yet, at the same time, EuroStat was mired in a massive financial scandal involving almost 5M Euros where "auditors found a "total lack of an audit trail "which made it impossible to find out where the money went." Your swingset can be off by an inch in some dimension, so you must tear it down. But contracts can be issued to non-existent companies and EuroStat can run a double-accounting system (2 sets of books, one cooked) without auditing.
Now, when contrasted, that's some funny shit - and almost redefines hypocrisy. A fascinating bit is this from the same BBC story:
"Who profited? Mr Franchet, Mr Byk and Mr Nanopoulos deny any fraud, claiming that the secret bank accounts simply enabled them to pay contracts on time by bypassing lengthy EU bureaucratic procedures."
From the horses' mouths. Sinister? No. Comical and hypocritical? Indeed.
#4
Ooh, the dreaded "EU bureaucracy" again. Look at me shiver.
Unlike what you may think, EU bureaucrats in Brussels aren't in the habit of leaving their offices in Brussels to visit obscure little Scottish villages and measuring people's swingsets.
I'd bet quite a bit of money that what *actually* happened, is that some *British* officials, following *British* law, found those swingsets to be violating standards that had been voted by the *British* parliament.
And then they ofcourse blamed it to the EU bureaucrats being nasty and stuff.
So, anonymous, want us to bet on the nationality of the inspectors that took down those swings? Or which country's laws they were following? Because what I read through googling for a couple minutes, is that the British parliament was the one that turned some certain non-mandatory "European Standards of Safety" into *British* law.
Oooh, lookit what I have found here:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30597
"While the EU directive is not law, failing to comply could leave the village council open to lawsuits if a child were injured. "
In short, this isn't about some evil EU guys taking down children's swings -- this about the EU providing some non-mandatory safety standards, accepted then by the British parliament, and leaving the town council open to lawsuits *if* a child got hurt.
A look at the center of radical Deobandi Islam.
It is said that Allama Yusuf Banuri set up the Banuri madrassa in Karachi just after 1947 after coming down from the NWFP. Another account says that the large Banuri Town complex of seminaries was established by him much later. The headquarters of what is certainly the largest Deobandimadrassa in the country is in Site Area spread over more than six acres. Jamia Banuria can accommodate 2,000 pupils, while all its 12 branches in the city accommodate 3,000 pupils. The amount spent on its upkeep comes to Rs 3.7 crore annually. The seminary has secular subjects in addition to religious courses, but its graduates have figured prominently in jihad. Its most well known pupil was Maulana Masood Azhar who also taught here before becoming a jihadi hero and leader of the banned Jaish-e-Muhammad.
Mufti Nizamuddin Shamzai:
The most well known living head of the Banuri complex is Mufti Nizamuddin Shamzai who was counted as the most powerful man in Pakistan during the rule of Mullah Umar in Afghanistan. An American author has written that Mullah Umar and Osama bin Laden met for the first time in Banuri mosque under the tutelage of Shamzai. Among his 2,000 fatwas the most well known is the one he gave against America in October 2001 declaring jihad after the Americans decided to attack Afghanistan. He had earlier in 1999 already deemed it within the rights of the Muslims to kill Americans on sight. (The fatwa was later modified in explanation.) He was the patron of the foremost Deobandi jihadi outfit Harkatul Mujahideen and was seen as an elder by the two leaders of Harkat: Fazlur Rehman Khalil and Masood Azhar. In 1999, after his release from an Indian jail, Masood Azhar quarrelled with Khalil and formed his own Jaish-e-Muhammad. Shamzai was clearly inclined to favour Masood Azhar and became a member of the Jaish shura (governing council). He was already a member of the shura of Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam (JUI) of Maulana Fazlur Rehman. "The spilling of American blood is permissible" is how his â99 Fatwa went. Shamzai is one of a group of highly respected Deobandi scholars in Pakistan who give religous legitimacy to the Jihadi outfits. The Shuras of these different groups have an overlapping membership, which ensures that they remain under the control of the radical, but pro-Army, Mullahs.
The Rise of Maulana Masood Azhar:
The most famous alumnus of the Banuria seminary was Maulana Masood Azhar, leader of the banned Jaish-e-Muhammad. He is the son of Allah Baksh Shabbir, a teacher of Islam, of Bahawalpur. He has five brothers and six sisters. Masood was born in 1968 and completed his religious training at Banuri Mosque of Karachi and then taught there for two years till 1989. He was inspired to do jihad while at Banuri Mosque. Masood is the author of 29 jihadi tracts and was the organisational genius behind Harkatul Mujahideen, for which he toured abroad and collected funds. He was caught carrying fake dollars at Jedda airport during one of these trips. He was instrumental in getting Harkatul Mujahideen and Harkat al-Jihad al-Islami to merge for some time and was also the man behind creating a collective organisation named Harkatul Ansar. He was in Somalia in 1993 while Osama bin Laden was based in Sudan. Masood was caught in Anantnag in Held Kashmir in 1994 while trying to coordinate Harkatul Ansar. Masood is said to have met Osama bin Laden in Medina in 1994 when both were disguised. Masoodâs mission was to bring his jihadi organisation under the aegis of Al Qaeda. Masood Azhar was devoted to Maulana Haq Nawaz Jhangvi, the fanatically anti-Shia and anti-Iran founder of Sipah e-Sahaba who was murdered in 1990, which in turn led to the murder of an Iranian diplomat in Lahore, thus starting the great sectarian war of the decade of the 1990s, attracting Arab funds to Deobandi warriors. It is said that his separation from Harkatul Mujahideen forced his co-leader Fazlur Rehman Khalil to move close to Osama bin Laden, but the truth is that Masood Azharâs trail in Somalia in 1993 links him with the adventure the Harkat recruits participated in from Sudan which resulted in 24 Pakistani troops (as part of a UN peace force) killed in ambush by warlord Aidid that Osama bin Laden was supporting. Later in 1999, the kidnapper of Daniel Pearl in Karachi, Umar Sheikh, joined him and confirmed the strong bond between Al Qaeda and Jamia Banuria. Binori has also served as one of the headquaters of the global jihad movement. While Afghanistan was the training area, this and some other madrassas provided the religous indoctrination for the future leaders of jihadi movements.
Qari Saifullah Akhtar:
The next renowned graduate of Banuri Mosque is Qari Saifullah Akhtar, born in 1958 in South Waziristan. The leader of Harkat al-Jahad al-Islami, Qari Saifullah Akhtar first came to public view when he was caught in the 1995 unsuccessful army coup by major-general Zaheerul Islam Abbasi, but saved his skin by turning state witness. (Some say he was defiant but was still let off.) After that he surfaced in Kandahar and from 1996 was an adviser to Mullah Umar in the Taliban government. His fighters were called âPunjabiâ Taliban and were offered employment, something that other outfits could not get out of Mullah Umar. The outfit had membership among the Taliban too. Three Taliban ministers and 22 judges belonged to the Harkat. In difficult times, the Harkat fighters stood together with Mullah Umar. Approximately 300 of them were killed fighting the Northern Alliance, after which Mullah Umar was pleased to give Harkat the permission to build six more training camps in Kandahar, Kabul and Khost, where the Taliban army and police also received military training. From its base in Afghanistan, Harkat launched its campaigns inside Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Chechnya. Because of their common origin in the Banuri seminary, Harkat al-Jihad al-Islami and Harkatul Mujahideen were merged in 1993 for better performance in Kashmir. The new outfit was called Harkatul Ansar, the first to be declared terrorist by the United States after one of its commanders, Sikandar, formed an ancillary organisation Al Faran and kidnapped Western tourists from Kashmir in 1995. Qari Saifullah Akhtar fled from Kandahar after the fall of the Taliban and hid in South Waziristan for some time before being reportedly whisked away to some safe place in the Gulf by one of his Arab friends.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
02/23/2004 12:29:50 AM ||
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I wonder if they get those pain in the ass alumni letters from Banuri hitting them up for money?
I also wonder if they give them the "I gave at the office" excuse.
I also wonder why they aren't fuckin' dead yet.
Oh, I am so surprised.
Maulana Masood Azhar, chief of defunct Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM), has escaped from his house in Bahawalpur over two months back by deceiving the law-enforcement and secret agency personnel, sources in the interior ministry informed Weekly Independent. Sources alleged Maulana Masood escaped from his house in connivance with the law-enforcement agencies and Hafiz Tahir Mahmood Ashrafi, advisor to the Punjab government on religious affairs, about two months back. "The agencies are now thoroughly investigating covert relations between the two maulanas to trace and arrest fugitive Masood Azhar," a senior official in the Interior Ministry said.
Yeah. They're so surprised, too.
Hafiz Ashrafi confirmed to Weekly Independent that Masood Azhar had fled, but showed ignorance about his whereabouts. "I have no contact with him and I donât know where he is hiding now," Hafiz Ashrafi told this scribe.
"I know nossing! Nossing!"
Maulana Masood had been under intensive investigation especially after the US launched its so-called war on terror in Afghanistan about two years back. A large number of Jaish-e-Mohammed activists were arrested on charges of attacks on churches and foreigners. Various agencies also blame JeM for the latest attempts on President Pervez Musharrafâs life in Islamabad. Sources said that during house arrest Hafiz Ashrafi had been in contact with Maulana Masood Azhar and they used to discuss on telephone matters relating to religious and Jihadi parties and various other issues. Thatâs why Hafiz Ashrafi is nowadays in troubled waters and finds it hard to satisfy the law-enforcement and intelligence agencies about his relations with Maulana Masood Azhar. The probe was initiated when a Karachi-based Urdu weekly published stories about contacts between the two leaders.
Got their love letters, did they? Tusk tusk. Is there no privacy?
According to these reports, these two maulanas received huge sums and provided the Musharraf government information about various sectarian and extremist religious leaders especially al-Qaeda members to help the agencies arrest them. Thatâs why they turned against them. According to a report of the weekly, the two maulanas got million of rupees in this âoperationâ.
Masood Azhar as stoolie, huh? I wish somebody would give me millions of rupees to rat out somebody I didn't like. My ex- would be toast.
Sources said Tahir Ashrafi had also formed an NGO, through which he got released a number of Pakistani prisoners from Afghan jails. These members of various Jihadi groups were arrested during the US war on Afghanistan, and Hafiz Ashrafi allegedly made millions of rupees in the process. Sources in Interior Ministry said Hafiz Ashrafi helped the agencies arrest dissidents of Masood Azharâs JeM and members of other sectarian groups opposed to his ideology. As a result, leaders of various religious parties including Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam, banned Sipah-e-Sahaba and Harkatul Mujahideen of Fazlur Rehman Khalil, wrote letters to Interior Ministry officials and condemned activities of Hafiz Ashrafi and Maulana Masood. The intelligence agencies are also investigating into financial affairs of Hafiz Ashrafi and Maulana Azhar because the latter had invested million of rupees in the export of garments. He had many shops in commercial areas of Lahore such as Karim Block, Allama Iqbal Town, Durand Road, Urdu Bazaar etc.
I think I'll go take a really long shower after reading that.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
02/23/2004 12:05:58 AM ||
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invested million of rupees in the export of garments
I seem to remember that there was a big stink (after we went into Afghanistan) about the Bush administration's failure to reduce import tariffs on garments. Wonder when the maulanas made their investments?
Very EFL. Link to the blog and read the whole thing.
Insofar as we allow the enemy to define the battleground, the advantage is his. Our enemy is the Qutb/Salafi/Wahhabi Muslims who believe us a Satanic threat to Islam (this is exact and not hyperbole: Satan is the deceiver/seducer). Their philosophy has 2 main thrusts as far as we are concerned:
a critique of the West as secular/atheist (or Christian; it doesnât matter much to Qutb) and therefore intrinsically deranged; and
a claim that only through adherence to Godâs law as codified in sharia is there true happiness and nobility.
We cannot persuade our committed foes, and shouldnât bother trying. We may be able reduce their recruiting rate, though. If we take their challenges as our battlefield, and attempt to deny them directly, weâre apt to lose. For example, consider Qutbâs first front. Our culture very plainly has deranged aspects, and atheism has a very prominent place in it. You may try to say that every society has problems--but Johnny Abdul will be more scandalized by alien faults than familiar ones. The local problems (government corruption, etc) may hurt him more, but they donât shock him as much as the unfamiliar ones. You may try to point out that a secular government doesnât require secularism--but that subtle point is apt to elude him: It has escaped attention here in the West as well. In short, Johnny Abdul is likely to agree with Qutb that weâre a lot of deranged atheists.
Us agnostics and atheists are up for the high jump when the caliph takes over...
Johnny Abdul is not an atheist; he despises them. He does like the goodies we offer, and for a lot of people, in peacetime, thatâs enough to reconcile them to us. But even in peacetime, and more certainly in war, sophisticated Muslims will warn that the goodies are a trap to snare good Muslims into materialism and vice. Which of course they certainly can be.
The goodies don't care about your religion, if any...
To make matters worse, Johnny Abdul may want the goodies, but he canât have them. He doesnât make enough money. He canât, not without fairly dramatic political and economic restructuring--which wonât happen. The political poles in these societies are the entrenched interests (and factions thereof) and the revolutionaries--who have coalesced around radical Islam. Not much hope for useful change there... If it were possible to improve Johnny Abdulâs economic life, heâd be more likely to go along with the great Satan in order to get medicine, etc. But he is simultaneously more likely to become more sophisticated and realize the trap of materialism.
His economic life is never going to improve if he grows to adultery having read only one book. He's never going to improve his economic lot when he invests all his surplus capital (and some that's not surplus) in holy men and building new mosques.
One school of thought holds that if we can make the Muslims middle class, theyâll exclude religion from their calculations--like Sunday-only Christians. But Marx was wrong, and not all motives are economic. How many of the suicide bombers are poor? How many of the 911 killers were poor? In any event, we canât change the economic conditions of Mideast countries without taking control of them--the reforms required are too radical. They need new political systems, changed economic structures, different educational priorities, different social attitudes towards corruption and nepotism--not just better roads.
Hmmm... That's a flat statement that they're all incompetent to handle their own affairs. I don't think I agree. The Gulf States are actually doing a pretty good job of administering their own affairs. Tunisia seems to be a functioning secular state, though I'm not intimately familiar with it. Morocco's working hard to modernize. Libya, like them or not, has broken the Islamic-Arabist mold. We're actually only talking about a few countries that are showing themselves incompetent, and that primarily through the vagaries of dictatorial regimes. And of course the princes of Arabia, who have, in fact, proven themselves incompetent. The real problem doesn't seem to be the governments, which can be changed, but the substratum of society that's got the stranglehold on education, linked as it is with the guys who give the Friday rants.
The other front--that sharia is the way of joy--is hard to counter directly, since Johnnyâs imam will point out that we (being infidels) have no standing to judge such things. We can publicize the horrors of the Iranian mullahs or the Saudi custodians of virtue or the Taliban soccer field mayhem. It wonât get very far coming from us. I see that weâve finally gotten a satellite station up, but I donât know much about it yet. Iraq is a great place to plant radio/TV stations for the whole Middle East--and we havenât moved on that yet. Even so, we canât expect that anyone will accept our critiques of Islam.
I don't think we can look for a quick turnaround, but I do think we've got the opportunity for progress. We don't run the Baghdad press, but they seem to have gotten the free press idea pretty quickly and enthusiastically, and it's read outside of Baghdad. Given a few years, it'll be read throughout the Middle East, and has the potential to replace rags like Asharq al-Asswipe. What we absolutely, positively have to do in Iraq is foster the idea of individual liberty: go to the mosque (or church or temple) you want, or stay home; say pretty much what you want; do pretty much what you want. To paraphrase Huey Long, make every man a king, no man a despot. That sort of idea can't help but catch on, of only because Iraqis travel and other people travel to Iraq.
Posted by: Korora ||
02/23/2004 12:05:05 AM ||
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on the other hand--H bomb mecca and medina and turn them into a glass bowl not fit for a human visit for ten thousand years--destroy their religious holy of holies--annihilate their ulema--totally demoralize their religious beliefs and identity--make 'em ecomomic serfs and gradually re-educate 'em--it could work--ask montezuma--see anyone around fearing and worshipping quetzlcoatl lately?
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI ||
02/23/2004 2:13 Comments ||
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#5
VAMark - TOLUI wasn't suggesting that Mexico was the high-mark for democratic society - he was saying that the religion that was the center of Aztec society had been totally destroyed, and the very tiny few people that follow it today make no ripple in the fabric of society. He is suggesting destroying the heart of Islam as a means of destroying the absolute cradle-to-grave hold Islam imposes on its followers.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
02/23/2004 10:59 Comments ||
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#6
we canât expect that anyone will accept our critiques of Islam
They must learn to tolerate criticism of Islam.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
02/23/2004 12:57 Comments ||
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#7
Step 1 is the US and Europe should finance Turkish built and run Sufi Islam mosques and maddrasses throughout the Islamic world. This should be done at the same time Saudi Wahhabi mosques are closed or the Saudi's are convinced funding them is no longer in their best interests. Combine that with a few Turkish radio shows and hospitals throughout the old Ottoman territories.
That would do more to cut into terrorist funding and support than any kind of direct counter-Islamic campaign. I don't care if the Turk/Sufi's aren't American buddies, as long as they aren't our enemies.
Step 2. Be specific when the US goes after radical Islam that we mean (a) the Iranian Mullahs' misinterpretation of Shia'a (b) The Saudi Wahhabi sect.
#8
To say that we cant influence the enemy is incorrect. Activily halting pro jihad propaganda distribution (in this case, replacing mosque speakers, censoring media) can have a good effect.
Financiers can be turned or executed if they dont cooperate.
If we get hit by a nuke because we want to play nice, we deserve it for being stupid.
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