Six people were wounded Tuesday in a suicide attack targeting NATO peacekeepers in Afghanistan's western city of Herat. Gen. Mohammad Ayub Salangi, the police chief in Herat, said three Italian peacekeepers were on their way to the airport when the bombers' car pulled up next to their vehicle and exploded. Maj. Andrew Elmes, a spokesman for the NATO forces, confirmed the attack and said the three Italians suffered only minor injuries. Three civilians also were hurt, including a woman hospitalized in critical condition, Salangi said.
Posted by: ed ||
12/20/2005 07:35 ||
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MBABANE, Swaziland (Reuters) -- Swazi police have arrested nine members of a banned opposition party over a series of firebomb attacks that have stoked tension in the impoverished African kingdom, the party leader said Tuesday. Peoples United Democratic Movement leader Mario Masuku said the nine suspects were members of either his party or its youth wing, which like other opposition parties is banned by King Mswati's government. Most of the suspects face charges of attempted murder in connection with a spate of attacks on police, government officials and courthouses over the past five years, which have intensified in recent months. Most of them have been refused bail, Masuku said.
Masuku denied the Peoples United Democratic Movement was behind the attacks but stopped short of condemning the use of violence against the government and said the opposition was stepping up its campaign against sub-Saharan Africa's last absolute monarchy. "We will continue our struggle for the liberation of the people of Swaziland, whether these people are found guilty or not," Masuku told Reuters in Johannesburg, South Africa, by phone from Swaziland.
Police were not immediately available to comment on the arrests, which were reported in Swazi newspapers Tuesday, but government officials have described the blasts as terrorism and blamed them on the Peoples United Democratic Movement. Swaziland has experienced rising political tension as critics accuse Mswati of ignoring calls for greater democracy and failing to cope with rampant poverty and food shortages.
The 37-year-old king also has been criticized for splashing out on palaces and expensive cars and for recently choosing a 13th young bride, in a country 40 percent of whose people are believed to be infected with the AIDS virus.
We always devote extensive coverage to the king's yearly bride pick.
"Our people are angry, they are unhappy about what is happening," said Masuku, who added that his party wanted a nonviolent dialogue with the government. The party is among the fiercest critics of Mswati and a new constitution -- replacing the one Mswati's father tore up in 1973 -- which opponents say benefits the king and his court at the expense of Swaziland's poor majority.
Violent attacks are relatively rare in Swaziland, a tiny enclave of 1 million citizens sandwiched between South Africa and Mozambique, and Mswati remains widely popular as the symbolic center of the Swazi nation.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/20/2005 14:59 ||
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40 percent of whose people are believed to be infected with the AIDS virus.
Not to worry King Masuka ole chap. While you boink away with numbers 1 through 13, your subjects are making themselves quite extinct. The entire region will soon become a giant game reserve.
A 23-year-old man has been arrested in connection with the attempted bomb attacks on London's transport network on 21 July. Anti-terror detectives detained the man at around 0500 GMT at Gatwick airport after he landed on a flight originating from Addis Ababa in Ethiopia. The man, from Tottenham, north London, is being questioned in central London. Police said they believed the man had been out of the UK since June. He was arrested on suspicion of the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism under the Terrorism Act 2000.
As well as the five charged with direct involvement in the plot, 10 others face lesser charges including failing to disclose information about the suspects and assisting them to evade arrest. Dozens more have been questioned under the Terrorism Act but released without charge.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/20/2005 08:54 ||
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And still the surrender monkey Brits refuse to close the Muslime terrorist Mosques. At least the Aussies beat the schit out of their lifeguard beating towel heads.
MEXICO CITY - The Mexican government, angered by a U.S. proposal to extend a wall along the border to keep out migrants, has struck back with radio ads urging Mexican workers to denounce rights violations in the United States. Facing a growing tide of anti-immigrant sentiment north of the border, the Mexican government is also hiring an American public relations firm to improve its image.
Mexican President Vicente Fox denounced the U.S. measures, passed by the House of Representatives on Friday, as "shameful" and his foreign secretary, Luis Ernesto Derbez, said Monday the wall was "stupid."
It's hard to underestimate the ill-feeling the proposal has generated in Mexico, where editorial pages are dominated by cartoons of Uncle Sam putting up walls bearing anti-Mexican messages. Many Mexicans, especially those who have spent time working in the U.S., feel the proposal is a slap in the face to those who work hard and contribute to the U.S. economy.
Fernando Robledo, 42, of the western state of Zacatecas, says the proposals could stem migration and disrupt families by breaking cross- border ties. "When people heard this, it worried everybody, because this will affect everybody in some way, and their families," Robledo said. "They were incredulous. How could they do this, propose something like this?" Robledo, whose son and mother are U.S. citizens, predicted the measure "would unleash conflict within the United States" as small businesses fail for lack of workers.
He said many Mexicans felt betrayed by the anti-immigrant sentiment.
"We learned to believe in the United States. We have a binational life," he said of Zacatecas, a state that has been sending migrants north for more than a century. "It isn't just a feeling of rejection. It's against what we see as part of our life, our culture, our territory."
It's not your territory, it's ours. You get to pick one or the other.
The government is scrambling to fight on two fronts. On Monday, it announced it had hired Allyn & Company, a Dallas-based public relations company to help improve Mexico's image and stem the immigration backlash.
"If people in the U.S. and Canada had an accurate view of the success of democracy, political stability and economic prosperity in Mexico, it would improve their views on specific bilateral issues like immigration and border security," Rob Allyn, president of the PR firm, told The Associated Press Tuesday.
He's the president of a PR firm, his lips are welded on so he can say things like that without them flying off.
Jose Luis Soberanes, head of the government's National Human Rights Commission, suggested Mexico go further. "I would expect more energetic reactions from our authorities," Soberanes told local media. "It's preferable to have a more demanding government, more confrontation with the United States."
Oh, by all means, demand away.
Mexico has also said it is recruiting U.S. church, community and business groups to oppose the proposal.
And the government has stepped up its defense of migrants, airing a series of radio spots here aimed at migrants returning home for the holidays. "Had a labor accident in the United State? You have rights ... Call," reads the ad, sponsored by Mexico's Foreign Relations Department, which has helped migrants bring compensation suits in the United States.
The sense of dread connected with the measures is hardly restricted to Mexico. Immigrant advocacy and aid groups in the United States are worried about provisions of the House bill that upgrade unlawful presence in the United States from a civil offense to a felony. "This is a sad foreshadowing," said immigrants rights activist Kathryn Rodriguez of the Derechos Humanos coalition in Tucson, Ariz. She fears the bill could expose those who help sick or dying migrants to criminal prosecution.
Well, if you assist criminals....
The House bill, passed on a 239-182 vote, would also enlist military and local law enforcement to help stop illegal entrants and require employers to verify the legal status of their workers.
Mexicans are outraged by the proposed measures, especially the extension of the border wall, which many liken to the Berlin Wall. Some are urging their government to fight it fiercely. "Our president should oppose that wall and make them stop it, at all costs," said Martin Vazquez, 26, at the Mexico City airport as he returned from his job as a hotel worker in Las Vegas. "More than just insulting, it's terrible."
Posted by: Steve ||
12/20/2005 16:07 ||
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Mexico has also said it is recruiting U.S. church, community and business groups to oppose the proposal.
Perhaps I'm a little off here, but I think Mexico is unwittingly aiding the pro-border control faction by keeping the pot boiling. It seems that apathy is the most powerful weapon the illegal immigration lobby has on its side.
This Mexican agitation will keep the issue alive and well in the media.
#2
Absolutely agree, D. It's great to have stupid enemies who only talk to each other in circle-jerks. The utterly stupefied surprise when Joe Avg finally speaks, such as at the polls, and they realize it's not going to go their way, is rather precious, lol.
#5
I wonder what Allyn & Co.'s other clients think of the firm's new job promoting subversion of US sovereignty? I wonder what the customers of those clients would think?
#6
I think Mexico has worn out their welcome and don't realize the simmering resentment in the Midwest. If anything happens because terrorists crossed the border, vigilantes will rise up. I've heard normally well-mannered University of Nebraska students yell derogatory comments at illegals working for the street department outside the stadium and locals boycott apartments that used low wage laborers for construction, replacing local businesses who can't compete in the bidding process. There is a lot of anti-immigrant sentiment, and not just in the border states.
#8
"It's hard to underestimate the ill-feeling the proposal has generated in Mexico"
It's hard to underestimate the ill-feeling most Americans have about people who break the law. What part of illegal don't the Mexicans and their fellow-travelers the LLL understand?
"If people in the U.S. and Canada had an accurate view of the success of democracy, political stability and economic prosperity in Mexico"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! We do. As in no success at all. We need to build the fence faster.
By the way, Rob, is it hard to get in the car with a 3-foot-long nose?
""Our president should oppose that wall and make them stop it, at all costs," said Martin Vazquez, 26, at the Mexico City airport as he returned from his job as a hotel worker in Las Vegas."
How exactly do you think Mexico can "make us stop" anything, Martin?
By the way, is that job in Vegas legal? If it is, no prob. If not,..... Buh-bye.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
12/20/2005 18:00 Comments ||
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"If people in the U.S. and Canada had an accurate view of the success of democracy, political stability and economic prosperity in Mexico, it would improve their views on specific bilateral issues like immigration and border security,"
If it's such a success, why are so many people desperate to leave?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
12/20/2005 18:10 Comments ||
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heh heh - just like Mexican Government elites to demand that we accept their illegals and to claim rights violations in the same breath they hire a PR firm....idiots
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/20/2005 18:36 Comments ||
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Mexico Retaliates for Border Wall Plan
I'm Pissed!
/and browned off too.
Posted by: Joe Average ||
12/20/2005 19:13 Comments ||
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"More than just insulting, it's terrible."
Then that would make it terribly insulting. Well guess what taco breath, there's a heck of a bunch of us'ens up here that are "insulted" that our tax dollars are delivering your babies, running your free hospital emergency rooms, free edumacation for your 3.7 kids per family, and taking care of your elderly that can't seem to make it back down south. Yep, nothing personal mind ya, but we are insulted too.
#13
"It isn't just a feeling of rejection. It's against what we see as part of our life, our culture, our territory."
Y'all dont recall that a month or so ago Presidente Fox ruffled a few feathers proclaiming that all these teritories (Texas, New Mexico, Nevada, California) were "His" territories.
Seems he really believes that the Mexican war was decided in his favor, not ours.
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
12/20/2005 20:13 Comments ||
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..the Mexican government is also hiring an American public relations firm to improve its image.
Unless that PR firm itself can manage to pull off securing the entire border, the Mexicans shouldn't even bother.
#15
Thank God we're finally taking a stand. "as he returned from his job as a hotel worker in Las Vegas". ah yes, another job that Americans don't want.... "Had a labor accident in the United State? You have rights ... Call," this angers me to no end. Get the fence up faster faster faster
they have too many rights as illegals!
"..those who work hard and contribute to the U.S. economy". what? where are they? All I see are illegals that drain our society with services, health care and the like. "a wall along the border to keep out migrants" you mean to keep out illegals. "He said many Mexicans felt betrayed by the anti-immigrant sentiment" you keep interchanging the word immigrant instead of using the correct term of illegal! "..provisions of the House bill that upgrade unlawful presence in the United States from a civil offense to a felony." about time!
Posted by: Jan ||
12/20/2005 21:23 Comments ||
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Meanwhile they fail to notice the new stationing plan has the 1st Armor Division moving to Ft. Bliss/El Paso.
#17
The fact is we need immigrant labor for jobs Americans won't do.
However, the Mexican government is demonstrating yet again that it is so corrupt and incompetent that it squanders the benefits of natural resources and a hard working workforce to the point that it's most ambitious people are willing to risk death in the desert to dig ditches in the US.
There are a couple of things going on here. Firstly, the Mexican government (like the Venezuelen, Nork, Iranian, etc) loves to blame our policies for its own failings. Secondly, there is a school of thought in Mexico that the border areas are still in some way Mexican territory even though they were won by or sold to Americans (and Texans) a long time ago.
My concern is not that hard working Mexicans want to come here like my Italian forebears did. It is that, given the proximity of Mexico, they will bring their disgracefully corrupt political culture with them.
I'm no expert on the policy details but here is my plan:
1. Enforce the law. Deport illegals. It's a national security issue as well as a necessity for civil order.
2. Increase options for legal entry including some sort of guest worker program where in these people pay taxes for the services they consume.
3. Make english the official language for everything the government does. It helps assimilate immigrants to American culture and gets them away from the political culture than makes Mexico such a dump.
#19
JAB, while I agree with alot of your thoughts, I don't agree with the statement; "The fact is we need immigrant labor for jobs Americans won't do" The guy working at the hotel in Vegas? That's a job an American wouldn't want? There are alot of jobs that I see illegals as scabs, lowering the rate of pay in many classifications.
Taking this thought a step further; after they are here doing the job that Americans wouldn't do, what about their kids a generation later? They won't want to do that work? I feel we are setting a terrible precident by allowing our youth to feel this work is beneath them to do. I was a migrant worker as a kid, it taught me alot of things about hard work. It encouraged me to go to college to get a better job.
Posted by: Jan ||
12/20/2005 23:16 Comments ||
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Right on, #17. As an Arizona resident I see this endless stream of illegals sucking up benefits, committing too many felonies, refusing to aculturate, not learning English, driving uninsured cars and trucks, and dragging all their kin along with them. We MUST enforce the law, and stem this tide or risk cultural destruction of the one bastion of liberty on earth. It's that simple.
There are good people who would willingly contibute to our society given the chance, but the floodgates must close.
Posted by: Old Marine ||
12/20/2005 23:59 Comments ||
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NUEVO LAREDO, Mexico (Reuters) - Gunmen shot dead five men in a vehicle workshop in this violent city on the U.S. border in a brutal resurgence of suspected drug violence, prosecutors said on Tuesday. Hitmen toting pistols surprised the five men late on Monday night at the workshop in Nuevo Laredo, which lies over the Rio Grande from Laredo, Texas, firing at least 15 shots at close range.
How very Chicago of them
The latest killings occurred in the city's Anahuac district, which is notorious for drug dealing, and ended an 11-day stretch without a fatal shooting. Witnesses said one man was shot several times in the face, usually a coded message signifying betrayal in the language of the warring cartels. Another victim attempted to hide beneath a truck in the workshop, but was shot regardless.
Violence along Mexico's northern border has increased since Fox launched "the mother of all battles" on drug cartels and organized crime in January.
Just a tip, Foxy. When you pick a name for an operation, I'd avoid using "mother of all battles". It didn't work so well the last time, ask Sammy.
The U.S. State Department has issued several travel alerts for Nuevo Laredo this year, warning that drug-related violence was getting out of hand in border cities.
Now this is a quagmire
Posted by: Steve ||
12/20/2005 15:28 ||
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ISTANBUL - The lawyer for several suspects accused of terrorist attacks in Istanbul that killed 63 people, Tuesday defended a Muslim's right to wage a holy war in closing arguments before an Istanbul court.
"Is it possible to judge people who have nothing to do with the facts of the case just because they praise holy war?" asked Osman Karahan, lawyer for a dozen or so of the accused. "If we open this door, tomorrow we will be judging those who fast or those who pray," said Karahan.
The lawyer also evoked the "invasion of Muslim countries" such as Bosnia, Iraq and Palestine, in making his point to the panel of secular judges. "After Damascus, it will be Istanbul's turn, with the same massacres as in Bosnia," said Karahan, who went on to add that holy war was an obligation for every Muslim.
Yeah, that's going to help your clients case
Following Karahan's arguments, several other lawyers pleaded their clients' innocence, saying they were being judged not for the November 2003 attacks in Istanbul but for participating in military training in Afghanistan or the struggle against Russian troops in Chechnya.
The suicide, car bomb attacks in Turkey's economic capital targeted two Istanbul synagogues, the British consulate and a branch of the British bank HSBC. Aside from the 63 killed, more than 750 people were wounded.
Of 71 people charged with the attacks, only 29 are in jail. The public prosecutor has called for life imprisonment for four of the accused and jail terms of 22 years for 36 others. He recommended that 31 others be acquitted. Several of the defendants' lawyers have asked for the trial to be deferred to give them more time to prepare closing arguments.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/20/2005 16:18 ||
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"Is it possible to judge people who have nothing to do with the facts of the case just because they praise holy war?"
Ummmmm ... yes. Advocacy of violent jihad astronomically increases the likelihood that individuals may have abetted principals or served as accessories in the case.
As a matter of fact, this whole "Holy War" schtick is really beginning to set a lot of people's teeth on edge lately. Those who continue to support it will most likely face ever-increasing opposition. Probably in the form of swift interdiction, brutal interrogation and summary execution.
An Algerian has been arrested in Alicante accused of collaborating with a cell linked to Al Qaeda.
Hichem C. aged 31, was arrested last Thursday for his alleged involvement with the Grupo Salafista, following investigations carried out by police soon after the separation of the cell in November.
The cell was supposedly devoted to giving financial and logistical support to the GSPC through the traffic of narcotics, the falsification of credit cards and the robbery of properties and vehicles.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
12/20/2005 00:22 ||
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Say what you will about their elected government (I do), but Garzon and his crew run a pretty class act. Must be why the Osamanauts were so keen to try and off them ...
The Spanish police arrested 15 people on Monday on charges that they had formed a recruiting network linked to Al Qaeda that sent Islamic militants to Iraq, the Interior Ministry said. The ministry said one man, a 25-year-old Iraqi identified as Abu Sufian, had close ties to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who is the American forces' most-wanted man in Iraq.
One of the men, a Belarussian identified as Sergei Malyschew, also known as Amin al-Ansari, is considered an expert in chemical weapons, the ministry said. A 36-year-old Ghanaian identified as Muhammad G. appears to have helped Africans travel to the United States under false identities, but it is not clear if they had any ties to terrorist groups, ministry officials said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
12/20/2005 00:19 ||
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More from MOSNEWS: One of the detained was a Belarus citizen, 30-year-old Sergei Malyshev, who took the name of Amin al-Ansari after converting to Islam, Alonso said. Malyshev is said to be a chemical weapons expert. According to the information provided by European secret services, he took part in militant operations in Chechnya, Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Other members of the cell were citizens of Lebanon, Egypt, Ghana, Algeria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, France and Spain as well as eight Moroccans. The cell was allegedly led by a 25-year-old Iraqi who identified himself as M. Hiyag, the ministry said, adding that he had âvery close accessâ to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the Jordanian-born militant who leads al-Qaeda in Iraq and is blamed for most of the terror attacks against the U.S.-led coalition.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/20/2005 9:18 Comments ||
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I would like to see NATO troops out of Afghanistan peacekeeping. It's fine if they want to send their troops to fight islamism or for advanced training by hunting down Taliban and Wahabis. But there is no use in expensive western troops acting as glorified security guards when there are over 80,000 (and growing) Afghan army and national police who should do the job and for a fraction of the price. The other use of western troops is to make sure the Afghans don't steal all the aid money.
Posted by: ed ||
12/20/2005 7:09 Comments ||
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I suspect that one reason to press NATO to keep troops in Afghanistan, beside the temporary need, is that it represents a last-ditch effort to keep NATO alive and functional.
#5
And it gives the dutch and NATO the ability to inser themselves into the decision making process, get their $.02 in and if they don't like the outcome, leak the appropriate informaiton.
#6
But there is no use in expensive western troops acting as glorified security guards when there are over 80,000 (and growing) Afghan army and national police who should do the job and for a fraction of the price.
In this instance, playing glorified security guard is preferred. FW8247 is right. It also lets them claim that they're 'doing something'. Of course if it gets a bit hotter violence-wise, methinks you'll see some second thoughts.
#7
I spent a couple of weeks working with some Dutch military people in the mid-1980s, part of a NATO familiarization program. Even then they thought their government was too liberal. This is a good thing both for NATO and for the troops from member nations that deploy. They learn what real combat is all about, and pick up some invaluable training that will stand them in good stead when the Muslims in their own countries try to take over, as they eventually will. I hope and pray that when these people rotate back to their home units, they pass along what they've learned to their fellow soldiers.
Whether or not that's Bush's (or Rove's) plan, it's a good idea, and might actually show results eventually.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
12/20/2005 14:19 Comments ||
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Wow. Is that the record? Will that put him in Gitmo's Hall of Fame?
Manama, 19 Dec. (AKI) - A Bahraini prisoner in the US prison camp Guantanamo Bay has tried to commit suicide for the tenth time, according to a letter from his lawyer released by the Justice department. Juma al-Dossary pulled stitches out of his arm and cut his bicep in his latest attempt, but lawyer Joshua Colangelo-Bryan said that after immediate intervention by Guantanamo staff the 32-year-old is currently in a stable condition. The wrists, moron! Slit the wrists! And not across either!
Al-Dossary has been held at Guantanamo since 2002 without ever being charged, the Dubai-based newspaper Gulf news reports. He told his lawyer in a meeting on 11 November that "he wanted to kill himself so that he could send a message to the world that conditions at Guantanamo are intolerable." Tell him to try harder. Nobody likes a quitter.
Colangelo-Bryan said after the meeting: "Juma said the purpose of Guantanamo was to destroy detainees and he has been destroyed." Nah. He's still breathing, isn't he?
Al-Dossary's lawyer said he had been in isolation for much of the last two years. However, the US military claims he has had regular contact with other prisoners. Medical officials at Guantanamo say he has tried to commit suicide at least nine times in the past. But, of course, the military lies. Terrorist's lawyers, however, are paragons of virtue.
FBI officials say al-Dossary was an al-Qaeda recruiter nicknamed "The Closer" because of his role in recruiting Jihadists. "The Closer"? He can't even close himself.
They say he first trained with al-Qaeda at the age of 16, spent time in Bosnia, and had previously been arrested in both Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, before allegedly telling his friends after the 11 September bombings in 2001 that he was going to fight with the Taliban. I wonder if he was on the "Repentance Program" or "Cake or Die"?
In August many of the 500 prisoners at Guantanamo Bay went on hunger strike over conditions and a lack of legal rights at the prison camp. One Bahraini inmate, Isa Almurbati, was being force fed by tube after losing a huge amount of weight and falling seriously ill as a result of the strike. Isa Almurbati: The Incredible Shrinking Jihadi.
Islamabad, 20 Dec. (AKI) - Pakistan's security forces said on Tuesday they had arrested a senior member of a banned militant group, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, believed to be linked to the al-Qaeda terrorist network. Islamic militant, Usman Choto, is wanted in connection with various attacks including a 1997 killing of a senior police officer in the Pakistani province of Punjab. The Pakistani interior minister Aftab Ahmad Khan Sherpao however has not confirmed the report, and says he has no knowledge of the arrest.
"I know nothing! Tell them, Hogan."
Lashkar-Jhangvi is a Sunni Muslim group which has been involved in a series of attacks on Pakistan's minority Shiite community. Both the government of Pakistan and the US government have designated it a terrorist organisation. The group has been implicated in two assassination attempts on Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf and in the death of American reporter Daniel Pearl in 2002.
Usman Choto is the third prominent leader of the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi to have been arrested since September. These include Asif Choto, who was credited with reorganising the militant group after its top leaders were either arrested or killed between 2001 and 2003.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/20/2005 16:40 ||
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Quetta, 20 Dec. (AKI/DAWN) - The Marri tribesmen in Pakistan's southwestern Baluchistan province and the four-party Baluch Alliance both claim that more than 50 people have been killed and around 100 injured in helicopter attacks and air strikes carried out as part of the military operation in the province over the past two days. Paramilitary forces in Pakistan continued their operation in different areas of the Kohlu district of Baluchistan on Monday, destroying more "hideouts and camps of outlaws", while the Frontier Corps camp in the Kohlu township also came under rocket attack. According to reports, helicopter gunships attacked targets throughout Monday.
The Marri tribesmen and the four-party Baluch Alliance claim that over 50 people were killed in the military operation which began late on Sunday night while another group known as the Anjuman Ittehad Marri claimed that 70 people, including women and children, had been killed and 150 injured in bombings by aircraft and helicopter gunships.
Sources said that groups of armed people attacked the Frontier Corps (FC) camp in the Kohlu township twice on Monday. In the first attack launched at around 3am, eight rockets were fired from the Jandaran mountains. The second attack came at around 5am. The FC troops retaliated and fired 11 rockets, killing one of the attackers.
"One person was found dead in Fazalchal area,â official sources said, adding that others escaped from the area. The sources said that heavy fighting was reported between paramilitary forces and âoutlawsâ in Baluchistan's mountain ranges. Rockets and heavy machine-guns were reportedly used against the paramilitary forces and the helicopter gunships.
The sources said that after destroying the hideouts and training camps, the FC troops arrested around 30 people and seized huge quantities of arms and ammunition. However, Marri tribesman Najeeb Marri claimed that around 100 people of his tribe had been arrested in different areas of Kohlu district and in Quetta. âThe operation has been going on in a vast area of the tribal district for two days and there have been heavy causalities,â he told Dawn in a telephone interview. Incidents of firing were also reported from the Dera Bugti area on Monday afternoon, increasing tension in the area which had already faced a severe government action on March 17 which claiming over 70 lives.
Pakistan's federal interior minister Aftab Ahmed Khan Sherpao also made a brief visit to the provincial capital Quetta. According to government sources, he held a meeting with officials and discussed the ongoing military operation. Leaders of the Baluch Alliance announced here on Monday that a âblack dayâ would be observed in the province on Wednesday to protest against the military operation. They said Baluchistan was a political issue and the problem could only be resolved politically because military operations undertaken in 1948, 1958, 1965 and 1973 had failed because of the âbrave resistance by the Baluch massesâ.
Habib Jalib Baloch (Baluch National Party-Mengal), Agha Shahid Hasan Bugti of Jamhoori Watan Party (JWP) and Dr Ishaq Baloch of National Party declared that Baluch people would not compromise on national rights and would never surrender. They said the military operation had been planned beforehand and the visit of President Musharraf to Kohlu and the firing of rockets during the visit was part of a plan to pave the way for launching the army action in the area.
"It's a plot! A deep devious plot to make us attack to govment!"
The Baluch Alliance leaders appealed to the International community and human rights organisations, political groups and nationalist parties to raise their voice against the âexcesses and oppressionâ of the security forces in Baluchistan.
Reports say the situation in Dera Bugti is tense and the area has been sealed off by paramilitary forces equipped with heavy weapons and another operation in the area may be launched any time. "All roads leading to Dera Bugti have been blocked and government buildings close to the roads have been taken over by Frontier Corps personnel,â the chief of Jamhoori Watan Party (JWP), Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti said in a telephone interview with the Pakistani daily Dawn from his home town of Dera Bugti on Monday.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/20/2005 09:43 ||
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Islamabad, 20 Dec. (AKI) - The US vice president Dick Cheney arrived in Islamabad on Tuesday for a surprise visit to Pakistan. He is expected to meet with Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf and also visit the areas affected by the 8 October earthquake which Pakistani officials say killed more than 73,000 people. Cheney arrived in Islamabad after his visit to the Afghan capital Kabul to attend the inaugural session of the Afghan parliament.
On his arrival, the American vice-president boarded a helicopter with the Pakistani foreign minister Khurshid Mehmood Kasuri to travel to Rawalpindi to meet with Musharraf.
No doubt an American helicopter
The US military has set up a field hospital in Pakistan-controlled Kashmir to help the earthquake survivors and US military pilots have also been flying helicopters carrying emergency aid to the quake-affected regions.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/20/2005 09:39 ||
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Interior Minister Aftab Sherpao and military spokesman Major General Shaukat Sultan have denied a military operation is being conducted in Kohlu, Balochistan. âNo operation is being carried out in Kohlu. People wrongly think that an operation is being conducted there,â Sherpao told the BBC. âYou can not call it an operation,â Gen Sultan told a local television channel. âThere were some bases of miscreants from where they used to fire rockets. Recently they targeted the helicopter of the IG, FC. Therefore hideouts have been raided.â
"But it's not an operation. It's... ummm... something else."
Posted by: Fred ||
12/20/2005 00:00 ||
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This is the operation the Paks were pooh-poohing just a day or two ago...
Camo turbans â now that's snazzy!
Paramilitary forces backed by helicopter gunships launched a counter-offensive on Baloch tribesmen in Marri areas and also clashed with tribesmen in Bugti areas on Monday. At least four tribesmen were confirmed dead in the fighting.
âThe operation is on,â Lieutenant-Colonel Jamil Hassan, a spokesman for the paramilitary Frontier Corps, told Reuters in Quetta. Helicopter gunships pounded hideouts in the Jindran, Tilli and Pir Mahmood areas of Kohlu district after FC personnel came under rocket attack in Kahan, some 250 kilometres east of Quetta, a security official told AFP. âSecurity forces and helicopters returned fire towards the mountains and later found the body of a tribesman lying near unfired rockets,â the official said. Former Kohlu nazim Nasibullah confirmed that six rockets had been fired at paramilitary forces early on Monday.
In a second incident, three Bugti tribesmen were killed when security forces traded fire with them near Sangseela village in Dera Bugti district, some 240 kilometres southeast of Quetta, the official told AFP. âThe firing is still continuing and both sides are using automatic weapons and rockets,â he said. Tribal chief Nawab Akbar Bugti said he had spoken to a tribal leader in Kohlu who told him about 30 members of the Marri tribe had been killed in helicopter strikes. âThe entire Dera Bugti area has been besieged, artillery has taken position and eleven helicopter gunships are roaming over our houses,â he told Online.
Maqbool Marri, a resident of Kohlu, told Daily Times by phone that dozens of civilians had been killed in fire from paramilitary forces and 40 people arrested in the Nisao, Janat Ali, Jhapar, Fazil Chapal, Kahan, Bhambhor and Talli areas. However, hospitals in Kohlu, Sui, and Sibi did not report any casualties.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/20/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
This might be fun. Lets encourage and provide transport for all the Sunni jehadis who want to martyr themselves in Iran.
Posted by: Red Dog ||
12/20/2005 1:18 Comments ||
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Indian troops shot dead four suspected militants in two separate gun battles in revolt-hit Kashmir, police said Monday. Three of the militants were killed during a four-hour gunfight in the southern district of Pulwama late Sunday, a police spokesman said. âThe fighting erupted when troops raided a militant hideout,â he said. The fourth militant was killed during a gun battle early Monday in the northern district of Kupwara.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/20/2005 00:00 ||
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A headless body of a gang member was found early Monday morning in North Waziristan. The killing is said to be part of the seminary studentsâ campaign against criminals.
How's it feel to have your own Taliban running around?
The dead body was hanging from an electricity pole in front of an Islamic school, two kilometres west of Miranshah, the regional headquarters of North Waziristan, a government official told Daily Times. A message was also left with the body warning that âanyone who helps these types of people will meet the same fateâ, the official requesting anonymity said. Thousands of armed seminary students took to the streets near Miranshah on December 6 after the bandits killed three of their fellow students.
Seems like it should be the government's job to control banditry, but I'm not a Pashtun, so I probably don't understand...
Posted by: Fred ||
12/20/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
"Headless Body in Topless Bar"
Posted by: Mike ||
12/20/2005 6:35 Comments ||
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Murdered headless head waiter's head found in topless bar.
ZUWAD KHALAF, Iraq (AP) - U.S. soldiers in the northern Iraqi desert dug up more than 1,000 aging rockets and missiles wrapped in plastic, some of which were buried as recently as two weeks ago, Army officials said Tuesday.
Commanders in the 101st Airborne Division said an Iraqi tipped them off to the buried weapons, perhaps an indication that residents in this largely Sunni Arab region about 150 miles north of Baghdad are beginning to warm up to coalition forces. "The tide is turning," said 2nd Lt. Patrick Vardaro, 23, of Norwood, Mass., a platoon leader in the division's 187th Infantry Regiment. "It's better to work with Americans than against us."
As the sun set, soldiers from the 101st continued to uncover more, following zigzagging tire tracks across the desert floor and using metal detectors to locate weapons including mines, mortars and machine gun rounds. "This is the mother load, right here," Sgt. Jeremy Galusha, 25, of Dallas, Ore., said, leaning on a shovel after finding more than 20 Soviet missiles.
The weapons are of primary concern for soldiers in Iraq, where bombs made with loose ordinance by insurgents are the preferred method to target coalition forces. "In our eyes, every one of these rockets represents one less" bomb, Vardaro said.
Vardaro would not comment on whether there were signs the caches had been used recently to make bombs. But service records accompanying the missiles dated to 1984, suggesting they were buried by the Iraqi military under Saddam Hussein.Still, the plastic around some of the rockets - of Soviet, German and French origins - appeared to be fresh and had not deteriorated as it had on some of the older munitions.
A U.S. Air Force explosive ordinance team planned to begin destroying them as early as Wednesday morning.
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/20/2005 23:02 ||
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TIKRIT, Iraq â One terrorist was killed and another severely injured when the improvised explosive device they were attempting to emplace detonated prematurely. The incident occurred Dec. 19, near the city of Tikrit.
Tikrit police and Soldiers from the 3rd Infantry Divisionâs 1st Brigade Combat Team responded to the explosion. The police officers performed first-aid on the injured bomber, who was taken to a nearby hospital for treatment.
The IED was composed of a 155 mm artillery shell and a detonating device, according to an explosives ordnance team investigating the explosion.
Soldiers searching the area discovered another artillery round and several other IED components in a nearby vehicle.
In addition to the wounded bomber, two other men were detained for allegedly attempting to help the surviving bomber avoid the responding security forces.
December 20, 2005: Terrorists in Iraq appear to be running short of pilfered (from Saddamâs ammo dumps) artillery shells and explosives. Home made explosives are increasingly being used for roadside bombs. One of the more novel explosive concoctions is one using concentrated hydrogen peroxide and other materials. This is a known recipe for improvised explosives, although the Iraqis are adding cumin (something found in many kitchens, and grown in Iraq), instead of charcoal, to get the mixture into an explosive state. American Crime Scene Investigators were taken aback when they first found traces of cumin in bomb site debris. It took some additional investigating to reveal that this was the result of local bomb making practices, not a recipe gone really, really bad.
The resort to improvised explosives for their bombs means the bombs have less power, and cause fewer injuries. The explosives shortage is largely a result of two years of American and Iraqi troops tracking down Saddamâs lost shells and explosives. In the past year, hundreds of terrorist weapons caches have been found and destroyed.
More good news you won't read about in the MSM
Posted by: Steve ||
12/20/2005 09:06 ||
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#1
Good news indeed. Are the dumps under control now or have the enemy exhausted the easy supply?
#3
This is a good sign. Given the levels of technical competence I witnessed in Diyala, (lots of Mysterious 0300 house explosions during my tour) we can predict a rapid turnover in the Engineering Dept.
Of course, This also gives new meaning to "Death by Curry/Cumin".
Posted by: N Guard ||
12/20/2005 17:55 Comments ||
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This is probably even less stable (not likely using pure cumin oil, more contaminants in bulk cumin) than the triacetone triperoxide (TATP) used in the London subway bombings. Here's to an accident prone New Year.
Posted by: ed ||
12/20/2005 19:51 Comments ||
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Interesting tidbits:
The number of U.S. airstrikes increased in the weeks leading up to last Thursday's election, from a monthly average of about 35 last summer to more than 60 in September and 120 or more in October and November.
...
The role of the Air Force Predator is not secret but has been largely lost in the clutter of violence on the ground. At least five times this month an unmanned Predator flown remotely by airmen at flight consoles at an Air Force base in Nevada has struck targets in Iraq, mostly in insurgent strongholds in western Anbar province.
Gen. Michael T. Moseley, the Air Force chief of staff, said in an interview with reporters at the Pentagon last Tuesday that Predators are attacking targets in either Iraq or Afghanistan 'almost every day.' He gave no details.
Posted by: ed ||
12/20/2005 07:37 ||
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#1
flown remotely by airmen at flight consoles at an Air Force base in Nevada
Golly -- in Nevada! You'd think they'd suffer jet lag so far away...
#10
Lol, BH! Thar be beaucoup truth in them werdz. Sliding credit for, um, high "scores"... Yep. Drones pay the freight and the real aces actually make money. It could work, lol, cuz some of the kids I've seen are waay beyond what most folks mean by being "a natural" - they were born to it. Step aside, Tommy, lol.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
12/20/2005 11:21 Comments ||
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I suspect we hear and see so little because we don't want to divulge the source of our targeting information nor exactly what happened to any specific target.
In the upside down world of Ameircan War, failure is a topic for unlimited public debate and success to be defended by a bodyguard of lies.
#13
I read an interesting article in Stars and Stripes when I was in Germany in the late 1980's. A general officer said that the best training his men got was playing video games, and they PAID to do it! It increases their reflexes, and in many cases the video game controls aren't that different from the find/identify/fire controls of an M-1 tank. I'm sure we're seeing similar effectiveness with gamers also flying Predators and other drone aircraft. BTW, the use of drones for reconnaissance isn't something new - we had drones in Vietnam. I saw quite a few VERY interesting photos from drone aircraft.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
12/20/2005 14:35 Comments ||
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#14
OP, tell you what, the controllers for the M-1, whatever they were then, NOW should be identical to a Nintendo/Xbox/Playstation controller. The game-box makers have done all the R & D, the Army just needs to adopt proven technology ;-)
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/20/2005 15:25 Comments ||
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Steve, you are actually right on target. The controllers for most remotely operated systems have to mimic the basic feel of a game controller. You know you've done a good job when a young Marine picks up your controller and basically gets right to business with about 5 words of basic, and I mean really basic, instruction.
Posted by: ed ||
12/20/2005 07:31 ||
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#1
And a big thank you for sending them, Ukraine!
There comes a time when you HAVE to tell your teenager, "You're on your own NOW." and boot them out of the house. They can call for advice and help if sh*t starts flying, but that sort of stress is necessary to build their self esteem and maturity.
Preliminary election returns Monday showed Iraqi voters divided along ethnic and religious lines with a commanding lead held by the religious Shiite coalition that dominates the current government.
Meanwhile, an Iraqi lawyer said at least 24 top former officials in
Saddam Hussein's regime were freed from jail without charges. They included biological and chemical weapons experts known as "Dr. Germ" and "Mrs. Anthrax."
Violent demonstrations also broke out across
Iraq and the oil minister threatened to resign after the government raised the prices of gasoline and cooking fuel by up to nine times. And a militant group released a video of the purported killing of an American hostage.
Early vote tallies suggested disappointing results for a secular party led by former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, a U.S. favorite who hoped to bridge the often violent divide that has emerged between followers of rival branches of Islam since the fall of Saddam.
As expected, religious groups, both Shiite and Sunni, were leading in many areas â an indication that Iraqis may have grown more religious or conservative.
Still, the ruling Shiite coalition â known as the United Iraqi Alliance and endorsed by Iraq's most prominent cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani â was unlikely to win the two-thirds majority, or at least 184 seats, needed to avoid a coalition with other parties.
A senior official in the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, one of the main groups in the United Iraqi Alliance, said the alliance was expecting to get about 130 seats.
"The United Iraqi Alliance strongly believes that all the various components of the Iraqi people should participate in the decision making, including forming the upcoming government. This means that the new Iraqi government will be a national unity government," Redha Jawad Taqi said.
The alliance is headed by cleric Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim, one of the most powerful figures in the country.
"It's going to be 'Let's Make a Deal," said Anthony Cordesman, an Iraq analyst with the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. "The important thing in some ways was that there was a large vote. The concerns that it would fall along ethnic and sectarian lines were validated."
U.S. officials hope a coalition government involving Sunni Arabs will weaken a Sunni-led insurgency. Sunnis, a minority group favored under Saddam, voted heavily on Thursday after boycotting earlier elections.
Preliminary results of Thursday's elections for the 275-member parliament from 11 provinces showed the United Iraqi Alliance winning strong majorities in Baghdad and largely Shiite provinces in the south.
Kurdish parties were overwhelmingly ahead in their three northern provinces, while results from one of the four predominantly Sunni Arab provinces, Salahuddin, showed the Sunni Arab minority winning an overwhelming majority.
In Baghdad province â the country's biggest electoral district â elections officials said the United Iraqi Alliance took about 59 percent of the votes from 89 percent of ballot boxes counted.
The Sunni Arab Iraqi Accordance Front â which includes some religious groups â received about 19 percent, and the Iraqi National List headed by Allawi, a secular-minded Shiite, trailed with nearly 14 percent.
Results from southern Basra province, also mixed but predominantly Shiite, saw the United Iraqi Alliance significantly ahead, winning 612,206 votes with 98 percent of ballot boxes counted. Allawi's list was far behind in second with 87,134 votes, while the Sunni Iraqi Accordance Front trailed with 36,997 votes.
By comparison, the United Iraqi Alliance received less than 8 percent in Saddam's home province of Salahuddin, where 89 percent of the ballot boxes were counted. Allawi garnered about 10 percent. Most of the rest went to Sunni Arab groups.
The elections played a role in the release from prison of the 24 or 25 officials from Saddam's government, said Badee Izzat Aref, the Iraqi lawyer who made the announcement.
"The release was an American-Iraqi decision and in line with an Iraqi government ruling made in December 2004, but hasn't been enforced until after the elections in an attempt to ease the political pressure in Iraq," Aref said.
Among the freed inmates were Rihab Taha, a British-educated biological weapons expert, who was known as "Dr. Germ" for her role in making bio-weapons in the 1980s, and Huda Salih Mahdi Ammash, known as "Mrs. Anthrax," a former top Baath Party official and biotech researcher, a legal official in Baghdad said.
Ammash was number 39, or the five of hearts on America's most-wanted deck of cards list. She was captured on May 9, 2003.
"Because of security reasons, some of them want to leave the country," he said. He declined to elaborate, but noted "some have already left Iraq today."
Lt. Col. Barry Johnson, a U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad, would say only that eight individuals formerly designated as high-value detainees were released Saturday after a board process found they were no longer a security threat and no charges would be filed against them.
Neither the U.S. military or Iraqi officials would disclose any of the names, but the legal official in Baghdad said Taha and Ammash were among those released.
The official, who asked not to be identified because of fear of retribution from former Baathists, said those released also included Hossam Mohammed Amin, head of the weapons inspections directorate, and Aseel Tabra, an Iraqi Olympic Committee official under Odai Saddam Hussein, the former leader's son.
The violent protests over gas prices came after the Cabinet raised the prices of gasoline, diesel, kerosene and cooking gas on Sunday to curb a growing black market.
The price of a liter of imported and super gasoline was raised to 17 cents, which is a fivefold increase from previous prices. There are about 3.8 liters in a gallon, meaning the new price is about 65 cents a gallon.
The price of locally produced gasoline was raised about sevenfold to about 12 cents per liter, or about 46 cents a gallon.
In Amarah, 180 miles southeast of Baghdad, police fired into the air to disperse hundreds of protesters gathered in front of the provincial government headquarters.
The demonstrators, however, did not leave, and some scuffled with police. Protesters also briefly blocked the main road between Amarah, Basra and Baghdad.
Drivers blocked roads and burned tires near fuel stations in the southern city of Basra, and hundreds of Iraqis demonstrated outside the governor's headquarters to protest the price increases.
In Tikrit, 80 miles north of Baghdad, about 500 people demonstrated against the price hikes, giving a letter of protest to the city council to hand over to Cabinet ministers.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
12/20/2005 00:48 ||
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#1
whats happening
either A. The shia, alienated by the Mosque bombings, etc stood even more firmly with the UIA than they did in January. So maybe that Reuters exit poll wasnt in Sadr City after all.
or B. The UIA parties, using their local control, have pulled off a Chicago style fraud, at least in Baghdad province, and maybe elsewhere
What could happen
A major tussle about the election returns.
IF UIA manages to stay united, and to shake off not only Sunni and Allawi pressure, but US pressure to revise things, there will be pressure for a broad govt. US ideal would then be a wall to wall coalition - UIA, Sunnis, Kurds, AND Allawi (well real US ideal would be for Dawa to break from SCIRI and Sadr, but thats unlikely) UIA will push to keep Allawi out. Getting SCIRI and the Sunnis to agree on extent of Iraqi federalism will be no easy feat.
The apparent inclination and ability of UIA,(esp SCIRI, IMO) to manipulate election returns is quite troubling.
#2
As incompentant as the UIA officials were in the interim govt, its hard to believe they were clever enough to manipulate the election.
Of course if they didn't manipulate the election, then it means that the Shia public didn't particularly care that they were incompenant in governance and that identity politics trumped it all.
#3
"As incompentant as the UIA officials were in the interim govt, its hard to believe they were clever enough to manipulate the election."
just cause they had difficulty running ministries in a modern manner, doesnt mean they couldnt pull off a local fraud. Certainly theyve been anything but incompetent in maintaining control of Basra and elsewhere. Much of the weakness at the center has been attibuted to Jaafari himself. I really doubt it was Jaafari who would have been directly involved in any fraud.
#4
LH is there some proof behind your allegations or are you speculating? Not that there is anything wrong with speculating, of course, but Iâm curious.
#7
"It's going to be 'Let's Make a Deal," said Anthony Cordesman, an Iraq analyst with the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. "The important thing in some ways was that there was a large vote. The concerns that it would fall along ethnic and sectarian lines were validated."
Actually, that's comforting. It means that no faction maintains a clear majority so they must make a deal to form a coalition government.
Just because coalitions haven't worked in Italy (or Spain or half a dozen other places) doesn't mean they won;t work there.
Actually, coalition Parliaments do seem to work in some countries (Britain, Japan, for example).
At least it keeps the Iran-backed revolutionsists and ayatollah-toadies from gaining a significant hold on the government.
Five people were killed and 11 others were injured, including a Baghdad deputy governor, in two separate attacks in the Iraqi capital today.
Armed attackers wounded Baghdad deputy governor Ziyad Tarek al-Zubai and killed three of his bodyguards when they ambushed his convoy in southern Baghdad.
A civilian and another bodyguard were also hurt.
In a separate attack, a suicide bomb exploded near a passing convoy carrying a police colonel. Two civilians were killed and another eight people wounded in that incident. The official -- reportedly the police chief in the capital's southern district of Al-Dura -- was among the injured.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
12/20/2005 00:36 ||
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No listing of any names, charges or other details in this article...
Iraq's Higher Judicial Council on Sunday announced that eight Iraqis, convicted of involvement in terrorist activities, were executed, a council source said in a statement. The eight executions involved eight Iraqis among 14, whose executions were approved by the Iraqi authorities, the source said. "The sentence was carried out in the Iraqi Reform Sector, after the allegations made against them were authenticated," the source said. Sixteen other death sentences were approved by the Iraqi Court of Cassation and referred to the Presidential Council for final approval and setting the date for the sentence to be carried out.
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/20/2005 1:06 Comments ||
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#3
I'm sure the good burghers of Graz, Austria, will want to name public buildings and sports sites in their "honor."
Just as soon as they can find out what names to use.
If they want to get a jump on things, they can start naming the various spots "________ Mohammed" and "Mohammed ________" and just fill in the blanks later.
(And gnädige Herren of Graz: since you think it's such a great idea to name your various local venues after multiple murders, why not fill in that first blank with Mohammed Atta? Now there's a mass murderer for you! Makes your buddy "Tookie" look like the piker he was.)
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
12/20/2005 3:04 Comments ||
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#4
T.K. Ryan in his "Tumbleweeds" cartoon has a character named Hogarth Hemp, the hangman. To quote:
"Post-Mortem Puppeteer of the First Magnitude!
One O' The Top Trachea-Tweakers of All Time!
Why, I've Tripped More Traps than a Near-Sighted Muskrat!...
Men, I've Staged Some O' The Finest Mid-Air Choreography in the West!
Why, Folks Flock From Miles Away T'See Me Perform!...
An' In My Act, I Use Only The Top Victi...Er...Co-Stars!"
#5
Boy, at this rate (8 in 1 day, and 16 more to be served up soon), they'll hit that "majik" 1,000 body count # well before we "barbarians" in the U.S. did (hat tips to the MSM over their daily drumbeat of the 1,000th "victim" of capital punishment). Carry on!
Posted by: BA ||
12/20/2005 9:33 Comments ||
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#6
'moose I was always a fan of Claude Clay. "You stab 'em we slab 'em" Undertaker.
#10
I understand Tooky Williams had a big funeral today. But what the heck, he was only executed for the murder of four people. A piker compared to some roadside bomber...
No names. How appropriate.
Hope none of the Iraqi officials who signed the death warrant had a stadium named after them somewhere in Austria... Probably not...
Five soldiers from an elite U.S. Army unit have been sentenced to up to six months confinement in cases concerning the abuse of detainees in Iraq, the U.S. military said Monday. The five, all from the 75th Ranger Regiment, pleaded guilty during courts martial this month and received sentences ranging from 30-day to six-month confinements and reduction in rank, the U.S. military said in a statement. Two of them will also be dishonorably discharged from the army after serving their time. It did not identify any of the soldiers. The statement said the charges were brought after an investigation into allegations of abuse on Sept. 7, but did not provide any details of the nature of the abuse or where it took place.
All five pleaded guilty to dereliction of duty, while four pleaded guilty to charges of assault and battery and two pleaded guilty to maltreatment, the military said. In November, the U.S. military announced that five soldiers from the 75th Ranger Regiment had been charged in connection with a Sept. 7 incident "in which three detainees were allegedly punched and kicked while awaiting movement to a detention facility."
I hate seeing things like this. I know the Army's not made up of perfectly trained automatons, but I still hate having it demonstrated.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/20/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
So "punching and kicking" the enemy terrorists results in the ruined careers of some of the best fighting men we can muster. Lovely, just fucking lovely. A very. very sad day indeed. This will do much for recruiting and retention in the Ranger Regiment.
#3
House cleaning.
Will MSM acknowledge that the American armed services are cleaning its own ranks far better than anyother in history.? NO.
Will MSM acknowledge that today the American system works where all others fail to measure up? NO.
Will MSM carry the words and pictures of the destructive behavior of a few for days or weeks on end while ignoring the hundred/thousand instances of humanity and aid rendered by the rank and file? YES.
#4
From here on out, turn over all detainees except field captures that need to be interrogated immediately to CIA field operatives and let them perform all the coercion.
#5
except field captures that need to be interrogated immediately to CIA field operatives and let them perform all the coercion
Crap like these "convictions" has a way of being handled without further comment by men in the ranks as, "ok slimeball JAG officers and weak kneed leadership, figure on seeing the number of "field captures" decline precipitously, have a nice fucking day." "They broke contact and ran sir, until one of em spun around sprayed us with an RPD. We put em all down sir, all of em." The end result does absolutely nothing for our ability to interrogate or turn bad guys. Dead bad guys don't blabber to the media, or bitch much about shoulder punches and rough handling. Nor do they provide much actionable intelligence. They just be dead Leonard.
#6
The end result does absolutely nothing for our ability to interrogate or turn bad guys
Two problems:
What ability to interrogate? The MSM has been quite successful in its efforts to curtail our ability to interrogate until it is no existant. So what's the loss?
People can be interrogated until they die. The results will be more tactically oriented, but methods less subject to review.
All in all, a very bad trend and a reminder of why to be careful of what you wish for; you just might get it.
About two dozen gunmen on Tuesday briefly seized Bethlehem's city hall on Manger Square near the Church of the Nativity, demanding jobs in the Palestinian security forces. After about an hour, the gunmen tied to the ruling Fatah movement met with Bethlehem's governor and then walked out of the building. It was not immediately clear how the standoff was resolved.
No doubt with a loose end or misunderstanding or three to create context for them to come back next time and take it over for good...
Hundreds of Palestinian police and onlookers rushed to Manger Square for the car swarm after the gunmen appeared on the roof of city hall, pointing their weapons toward the crowd. Police sealed the streets leading to Manger Square. The incident took place just four days before Christmas. The Church of the Nativity, one of Christianity's holiest shrines, stands over the grotto where tradition says Jesus was born.
#1
About two dozen gunmen on Tuesday briefly seized Bethlehem's city hall on Manger Square near the Church of the Nativity, demanding jobs in the Palestinian security forces.
#5
So I guess this means we Christians can take Mecca and Medina right?
And isn't that number a bit low? I am sure the Profit farted in a few more places which whould place this somewhere in the 43,000'th holest place in Islam...
#8
Emily, reminder, we need to use tu's 'Pali Civil Service Exam' in future snarky headlines and comments.
Thanks, tu, for the laugh!
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/20/2005 15:11 Comments ||
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#9
two dozen gunmen on Tuesday briefly seized Bethlehem's city hall on Manger Square near the Church of the Nativity, demanding jobs in the Palestinian security forces
I understand Charles Whitman was trying to get into crisis management.
#12
Of course Muslims will say that Jesus is in the Koran and this is sort of true.
However, the Jesus in the Koran is named "Isa" so he has been confused with the character Esau (brother of Jacob) on one hand. Isa is also called the son of Miriam (Moses's sister) according to 3:34-35. Also, according to the Koran (4:157-158) Jesus didn't die on the cross like the Christian claim, nor did the Jews kill him as the Jews claim (yes, oddly the Jews falsely claim they killed Jesus and better yet the Jews will be punished for this false claim per 149 of that chapter).
Hamas and Egypt's banned Muslim Brotherhood organization, which have historical ties, have begun coordinating their moves ahead of next month's parliamentary elections in the Palestinian Authority, PA security officials said on Monday.
Meanwhile, Said Siam, a senior Hamas official in the Gaza Strip announced on Monday that his movement was planning to form the new PA cabinet after it wins a majority of seats in parliament. "Hamas will be a clear voice in the new parliament," he said. "We will enter all the institutions to reform them and put an end to corruption. We will also enter the Palestinian security forces, which are very corrupt."
Siam did not rule out the possibility that his movement would halt terror attacks on Israel once it takes over the PA establishment. "The suicide bombings are not the only means that Hamas possesses," he explained. "We resort to suicide attacks only in response to Zionist atrocities. We use them only when they serve the interests of our people. But when they don't, we stop."
For the first time in Egyptian parliamentary history, the radical Muslim Brotherhood, whose candidates ran as independents, won 88 seats in the People's Assembly, accounting for 20 percent of a total of 432 races concluded so far.
"Hamas is trying to copy the Muslim Brotherhood model," a senior PA official in Ramallah told The Jerusalem Post. "They are now dispatching envoys to Cairo to meet with the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood."
One of the Hamas candidates for the parliamentary elections, Miriam Farhat, visited Cairo over the weekend, where she met with Mehdi Akef, the spiritual leader of Muslim Brotherhood.
Farhat emerged as an icon of the intifada about three years ago after she appeared on a Hamas videotape encouraging her 17-year-old son, Muhammad, to participate in a suicide mission against IDF soldiers and settlers in the Gaza Strip. Her son was killed in the attack, as were his two other brothers in separate attacks.
Farhat, 56, is referred to many Palestinians as the "mother of martyrs." Hamas is hoping to attract many votes by including her in its national list of candidates.
The Muslim Brotherhood, which also fielded female candidates in the Egyptian elections, has welcomed Hamas's decision to include the "mother of martyrs" on its list. During her visit to Cairo, Farhat said that Hamas's decision to participate in the parliamentary elections does not mean that the Islamic movement has abandoned the "military option."
Akef, who held a warm reception for her, declared that the "resistance was the only way to end the Israeli presence in Palestine." He added: "We welcome the Jews in Palestine only as individuals, but we don't agree to their presence there as a state. The Jews' ostensible entity is nothing but occupation and it won't last for long."
In an interview with the Egyptian weekly al-Ahram last week, the 77-year old Akef, who spent 20 years in prison, said: "I have declared that we will not recognize Israel, which is an alien entity in the region. And we expect the demise of this cancer soon. If they want to live with us as normal citizens sharing our rights and duties then we don't mind. But to remain an occupying tyrannical country, then this will not happen, God willing."
"This kind of cooperation between Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is very worrying," said the PA security official. "How can we talk about a peace process when these radical forces are uniting against us?"
Hamas has already learned a lesson from the Muslim Brotherhood and is naming well-educated candidates to run in the parliamentary elections. The Hamas list, called The List for Change and Reform, consists largely of university professors, engineers, physicians, pharmacists, journalists and students.
The Hamas candidates include: Sheikh Hamed Bitawi, chairman of the Palestinian Scholars Association, Dr. Khader Sondak, a professor of Islamic Teachings, engineer Abdel Rahman Zeidan, Dr. Omar Abdel Razak, professor of economics, Dr. Aziz Dwaik, who teaches urban planning, and Dr. Ayman Daraghmeh, deputy director of the PA's Health Department.
Several other top physicians and editors, such as Ghazi Hamad, publisher of the Hamas weekly al-Risalah, also appear on the Hamas list, along with many political activists and religious leaders. In addition, Hamas has decided to support a number of independent candidates, including Husam Tawil, a Christian from Gaza City. In a recent interview, Tawil denied that he was running as a Hamas candidate, but confirmed that he had sought the movement's backing.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
12/20/2005 00:37 ||
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Excellent! Let Egypt worry about having the Muslim Brotherhood (who killed Sadat) in their midst and in their borders! Let Egypt take care of Gaza and its chaos and environs; and "follow the trail of the money" and incitement and get rid of some of the top bankers and preachers........
The Israeli army on Sunday prevented two Palestinian activists from infiltrating the Beca'ot village in the Jordan Valley for the sake of committing terrorist acts there, the Israeli state radio quoted an army spokesman as saying. Speaking on Monday, the spokesman said the failed attempt took place Sunday evening. "The two armed infiltrators were caught as they were trying to escape by cutting through the fence surrounding the village. They confessed, during the interrogation, that they were planning to "launch an attack against the village." They had two knives on them, the spokesman said.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/20/2005 00:00 ||
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Two lawyers on Monday asked the State Security Court to acquit four men of plotting attacks against hotels, tourists sites and General Intelligence Department (GID) officers in 2005. The defendants â Osama Abu Hazeem, Hatem Ensour, Mohammad Arabiat, Yazan Haliq â are charged with conspiracy to carry out terrorist attacks and possessing illegal explosives with illicit intent. A fifth man, Mohammad Qteishat, is still at large.
Attorneys Hikmat Rawashdeh and Abdul Razaq Abul Athem asserted in their closing arguments that their clients were subjected to torture and duress by security forces, and they were detained for a week before being referred to the state prosecutor for questioning. âOur clients were also not allowed to appoint lawyers to represent them during the interrogation and they were tortured to confess to something they did not commit. Therefore, we call for their acquittal,â the attorneys said.
The five defendants were friends. In 1999, Haliq travelled to Syria to study and met with individuals who said they would help him infiltrate Iraq and fight there, according to the charge sheet. Abu Hazeem went to Syria four years later and met someone who promised to facilitate his entry into Iraq to fight there as well. He then returned to Jordan and asked Ensour and Arabiat to join him. Ensour then met with Qteishat in Iraq in mid-2003 and trained on the use of weapons, explosives and detonators, the charge sheet added. According to court reports, Abu Hazeem travelled to Syria in September 2004 where he received explosives training. He then smuggled detonators into the Kingdom when he returned the same month. The charge sheet also stated that Haliq travelled to Lebanon in January 2005 and trained on the use of guns, machineguns and explosives, then returned to the Kingdom.
The group decided to target three luxury hotels frequently visited by tourists and GID officers. The four men were arrested in February 2005 before carrying out any of their plans, according to the court. The tribunal adjourned the session indefinitely to issue a verdict.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/20/2005 00:00 ||
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The lawyers have been watching too much American television (I know, I know, it's that darned Ami cultural imperialism again. But we didn't mean to, honest!). I strongly suspect such little activities aren't illegal over there.
The defence team for nine men standing trial at the State Security Court (SSC) for plotting the first-ever Al Qaeda attack in the Kingdom, on Monday asked the tribunal to acquit their clients of all charges. The men, part of a group of 13 suspects including Jordanian fugitive Abu Mussab Zarqawi, are charged with plotting subversive acts against the General Intelligence Department (GID), the Prime Ministry and the American embassy in Amman. The state prosecution also charged the group with possessing and manufacturing explosives with illicit intent, and possessing an automatic weapon with the intention of using it illegally.
âMy client [the main suspect in the case Azmi Jaiousi] is a carpenter with a ninth-grade education so it is impossible for him to know chemistry or the equations needed to mix deadly chemical substances,â Jaiousi's lawyer Samih Khreis told the court. Khreis also contested the interrogation procedures conducted by the state prosecutor and the security forces, charging that his client was detained for over a month for interrogation and subjected to torture and duress.
Although the state prosecutor listed in his charge sheet that he was a target for the group, at the same time he was the interrogator, Khreis said. âIt was impossible for the prosecutor to be objective in his interrogation knowing he was targeted by my client and the rest of the defendants. This is human nature,â Khreis said.
The lawyer also referred to the chemical substances allegedly found in the possession of the defendants, which were destroyed by the authorities shortly after the group was arrested. âBy destroying the chemicals we lost our chance of examining these substances to establish if they were really dangerous as the prosecution has alleged,â Khreis added.
In July 2005, Jaiousi and three other defendants admitted that they targeted the regime, the government and the GID in 2004. Jaiousi appeared on Jordan Television shortly after his arrest in April 2004 and described how he and other group members bought and manufactured chemical explosives under the guidance and support of Zarqawi. âI believe Jaiousi was only the preliminary stages and his situation matches that of a person who wanted to launch an attack but changed his mind or was arrested before being able to carry out his plans,â Khreis said.
The rest of the defence team reiterated Khreis' claims in their closing arguments, saying the chemical substances destroyed by the authorities are available in the local market and there is no law that bans people from buying them. âTheir plans were all in the preliminary stages and they never used any of the substances allegedly found in their possession or launched any attack,â lawyer Mohammad Muhiar said.
The chemical substances the prosecution referred to are used in the agricultural sector and to manufacture batteries, Muhiar added. Muhiar, Khreis and the rest of the defence team charged that the prosecution refused to appoint lawyers for their clients during the interrogation and asked the court to acquit their clients of all charges.
I'm not too sure that a defense of no crime having been committed because the cops caught them is the right way to go, but I'm not a lawyer, much less an Arab, so maybe it makes sense to somebody. I don't think the "my client is a semiliterate dumbass" is a particularly good defense, either...
Posted by: Fred ||
12/20/2005 00:00 ||
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Military intelligence operatives arrested an alleged bomb-maker of the Rajah Solaiman Islamic Movement (RSIM) during a raid in Zamboanga province, DZMM reported Tuesday.
The Intelligence Service of the Armed Forces of the Philippines (ISAFP) identified the suspect as Pio de Vera, allegedly the second highest ranking official of the RSIM.
RSIM leader Hilarion del Rosario Santos III, also known as Ahmad Islam Santos, earlier identied de Vera as one of his classmates in "explosives training" conducted by Islamic militants in Pawas, Maguindanao, in 2002. He said de Vera and another RSIM member Kareem Ayeras were responsible for the purchase and manufacture of explosives for the group.
Santos, along with seven other RSIM members, were arrested last month at a safehouse in Sitio Triplet, Barangay San Jose, Zamboanga City. Among those captured were Santos's wife Narumruja Amdal and his son Yasser.
Rear Admiral Tirso Danga, Armed Forces deputy chief of staff for intelligence, said Santos established a terrorist training camp with two Indonesian fugitives sought for the 2002 Bali bombings in his familyâs farm in Pangasinan. The group also amassed a huge stockpile of explosives, Danga added.
Military reports earlier said the RSIM is planning to bomb night spots in Metro Manila during the holidays.
The group has been linked to the 2005 Valentineâs Day bombing of a passenger bus. ISAFP reports said the group has ties with Abu Sayyaf and the Jema'ah Islamiyah terror network.
The Rajah Solaiman Movement is an organization of Islamic converts whose announced goal is to include the country in the Pan-Asian Islamic Movement. It changed its name recently to Rajah Solaiman Islamic Movement, allegedly to veer away from its terrorist image.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
12/20/2005 00:35 ||
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"It changed its name recently to Rajah Solaiman Islamic Movement, allegedly to veer away from its terrorist image."
Can you say "axis"? I knew you could...
Syria has signed a pledge to store Iranian nuclear weapons and missiles.
The London-based Jane's Defence Weekly reported that Iran and Syria signed a strategic accord meant to protect either country from international pressure regarding their weapons programs. The magazine, citing diplomatic sources, said Syria agreed to store Iranian materials and weapons should Teheran come under United Nations sanctions.
Iran also pledged to grant haven to any Syrian intelligence officer indicted by the UN or Lebanon. Five Syrian officers have been questioned by the UN regarding the Hariri assassination, Middle East Newsline reported.
"The sensitive chapter in the accord includes Syria's commitment to allow Iran to safely store weapons, sensitive equipment or even hazardous materials on Syrian soil should Iran need such help in a time of crisis," Jane's said.
The accord also obligated Syria to continue to supply the Iranian-sponsored Hizbullah with weapons, ammunition and communications. Iran has been the leading weapons supplier to Hizbullah, with about 15,000 missiles and rockets along the Israeli-Lebanese border.
The accord, negotiations of which began in 2004, was signed on Nov. 14 and meant to prepare for economic sanctions imposed on either Iran or Syria. Under the accord, Jane's said, Iran would relay financial aid to Syria in an effort to ease Western sanctions in wake of the UN determination that Damascus was responsible for the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri.
Iran also pledged to supply a range of military aid to Syria. Jane's cited technology for weapons of mass destruction as well as conventional arms, ammunition and training of Syrian military.
Teheran would seek to upgrade Syrian ballistic missiles and chemical weapons systems. Under the accord, Iran would also be prepared to operate "advanced weapon systems in Syria during a military confrontation." Jane's said.
"The new strategic accord is based on the existing military MoUs, with the addition of the sensitive chapter dealing with cooperation in times of international sanctions or military conflict," Jane's reported.
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/20/2005 14:24 ||
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Look for more of these "revelations" as pressure continues to build on these two countries.
Also, look for the NoKos to continue to rachet things up a few notches as pressure builds on Iran and Syria. There appears to be a three-way symbiotic relationship.
Posted by: Captain America ||
12/20/2005 14:33 Comments ||
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#2
"Just 'put em over there boys...that's it, right next Saddam's old WMD's. He won't be needin' them anymore."
#5
Their plan should work less well if both countries are sanctioned. I guess this does demonstrate that Shia and Sunni can work together.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
12/20/2005 16:04 Comments ||
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It's difficult to believe that Asshead is actually this stupid. While Syria is less-than-famous for nimble diplomacy and deft statecraft, this is profoundly moronic. It provides every justification for military action while giving further creedence to suspicions that they did, indeed, help secrete Iraqi WMDs. This is so d@mning that it might as well be an elegant bit of disinformation.
#7
Baby-I-Doc is that stupid. He's got to know that both we, and the Israleis have a microwave-a-mullah weapon at the ready that can be "diverted" on a side trip to Damascus, if need be...
He just has so much beravado in his miniscule bedouin soul, that he thinks, like the man on trial in Baghdad, that he is impervious to any and all forms of justice...
#9
D_P_A: Point taken, but this is Jane's, not Debka. Yesterday's reported release of Dr. Germ and Mrs. Anthrax signals the closing act of the Iraq War. Syria and Iran must come next.
Following years of investigations based on intelligence reports, a Turkish court declared on Friday that terrorism is the instrument of Iran's foreign policy and that Teheran will not hesitate to use terrorism against its rivals in order to achieve its goals.
The Ankara court made public a key report detailing the parts played by nine Islamist militants in a long-running case over the murders of four prominent, pro-secular intellectual writers in the 1990s. According to the report, neighboring Iran deliberately trained Turkish Islamist radicals and supported terrorist activities aimed at undermining Turkey's strictly secular order. "Terrorism, which is an instrument of Iran's foreign policy, has been frequently used by that country against Turkey because Teheran sees Turkey as a major rival in the region," the court document said. The court said that following the Islamic revolution in 1979, Iran became the center of international terrorism while Teheran promoted itself as the natural and spiritual leader of global Islamist revolutionary activities.
According to Turkish intelligence sources, the main suspect in the murders of the writers, Ferhat Ozmen, went to Iran in 1988, joined the so-called "Jerusalem Army" and was trained in assassination, use of weapons, radio-controlled explosives and bomb making. The Turkish prosecution has described the Jerusalem Army as a group within Iran's Revolutionary Guards which works to export the Islamic revolution to neighboring countries.
Last month, Turkey's key National Security Policy Document singled out Iran as a potential source of instability and uncertainty in the region. The story implicating Iran in the murders provoked large headlines in the three Turkish mainstream newspapers - H rriyet, Milliyet and Radikal. The papers said that Teheran's ongoing nuclear and ballistic missile activities are a severe threat to the entire region.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/20/2005 10:13 ||
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You can give this a Master of the Obvious graphic if you like, but I think it is pretty ballsy of some jurist in a country that is drifting Islamist to say out loud what no other European power seens to have the 'nads to say. Assasinations are not unheard of in that part of the world. I hope that this is a sign that the elites of Turkey are starting to come to their senses and rein in their drifting polity.
#4
Either Turkey comes to its senses, or we will have to help create Kurdistan out of the eastern part.
That crap they pulled (which is hurting us even now in the Sunni Triangle) not allowing in the 4th ID should weigh very heavily on any decisions we make to help or reinforce the Turks, or the kurds.
Damascus, 20 Dec. (AKI) - Syria's president Bashar al-Assad has left Damascus for Cairo, where he is due to meet his Egyptian counterpart Hosni Mubarak for talks expected to focus on Syria's internal situation and its relations with the Arab world and the international community. Some political commentators are linking the visit of Assad to the arrival in Cairo tomorrow of US vice president Dick Cheney, speculating that Assad may bring with him a series of proposals to present to the United States to relieve the pressure on his country.
Reports are that Dick is heading straight home from Pakistan in case his vote is needed in the senate. I suppose Bashar asking Dick for witness protection was too much to hope for. Hell, everyone needs a dream.
However, some Egyptian government sources have rejected this connection, emphasising that Assad's visit is aimed at seeking mediation between Syria and Iraq to reach an accord between the two nations and re-establish normal bilateral relations. Over the past month there has been a flurry of short visits by the Egyptian and Syrian presidents, most of them focusing on the Syrian response to critical resolutions by the UN Security Council and the report of the UN-appointed inquiry into the assassination of the former Lebanese prime minister Rafik Hariri.
Assad's departure for Cairo comes amid unconfirmed reports of a joint Saudi-Egyptian mediation drive between Syria and Iraq and of an imminent summit between the heads of state of the two neighbours, after Damascus' commitment to cooperate to make its borders with Iraq more secure.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/20/2005 09:31 ||
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I think it's a little late for Ass(w)ad to make nice with Dick. But I did read a rumor that he wanted personal security guarantees if he cooperated with the Mehlis probe. Could be something spicy going on here, but I doubt it.
Chief Military Investigating Magistrate Rashid Mezher continued investigations Thursday into the assassination of MP Gebran Tueni, focusing on who owned the Renault 19 that carried the bomb.
Don't forget the BMW they used as the getaway car...
The Lebanese Military Judiciary is still detaining the importer of the car, the owner of the car agency that sold the car and the person who delivered the car to its current buyer. It is believed these people will remain in custody until the identity of the buyer is known.
The guy that delivered the car will be the only one of any value. The others are just a couple of sad sacks, I'd guess...
On Thursday, Mezher pleaded for legal assistance from the different security institutions in the country, and asked the Range Rover Company for information about Tueni's vehicle. Mezher also questioned several people, including several resembling the sketch of the person believed to have planted the bomb. Mezher appointed technical experts to examine the remains of Tueni's Range Rover and to analyze samples to verify the type of the bomb used and where it came from. According to judicial authorities, the bomb was "sophisticated" and was detonated in a similar fashion to the bomb in the assassination attempt on Telecommunications Minister Marwan Hamade as well as other assassinations.
I'd expect they all came out of the same bomb factory.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/20/2005 00:00 ||
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With investigations into the assassination of MP and journalist Gebran Tueni into their fourth day, the Directorate General of the Internal Security Forces has distributed a sketch of a suspect believed to have detonated the booby-trapped car with a remote control when Tueni's convoy drove by. According to information from witnesses, in a statement released on Wednesday from the ISF, the suspect is believed to be in his 30s, tall, with a strong physical structure, a fair complexion, and thin black hair.
First Military Investigating Magistrate Rashid Mezher held a security meeting on Wednesday with representatives of the commanders of security apparatuses such as the Lebanese Army, State Security, the Surete Generale and the ISF. Mezher and the security officials discussed the information and results reached by investigations 48 hours after of the assassination. According to a statement, they now have leads that could help reveal the perpetrators.
That'll be a first.
Judicial sources said the information gathered until now is "very important." However, what is needed is proof to be compared to some of the facts in order for the perpetrators to be discovered and arrested.
I'd be even more important if they laid hands on a perp or two...
Mezher had given new orders on Wednesday to ISF units requesting specific information within the next 48 hours. The sketch of the suspect will be distributed to the media, and citizens will be asked to identify the person and report his whereabouts in case he is found. Citizens were reassured that their identity will be kept confidential by virtue of law.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/20/2005 00:00 ||
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That isn't "thin, black hair." That's a buzz cut on a prosperously fat man wearing a nice, white, button down dress shirt with some odd health issues -- look at the eyes.
#3
It's not so much the eyes TW - check out the temple - perhaps a complicated birth and the doc used the jaws of life on his noggin instead of padded forceps.
BEIRUT - Hezbollah member Mohammed Ali Hamadi has returned to Lebanon after being secretly released in Germany, where he was serving a life sentence for the 1985 hijacking of a TWA jetliner and killing of a US navy diver, Hezbollah and Lebanese security sources said Tuesday.
Hamadi returned a few days ago, a Hezbollah source told Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa in Beirut. A Lebanese security source confirmed that Hamadi entered Beirut four days ago aboard a commercial flight from Germany.
The sources did not indicate whether Hamadi stayed in Beirut after his return. He had been arrested on 13 January 1987 at Frankfurt airport after customs officials found liquid explosives in
his luggage.
He was sentenced in 1989 for possession of explosives, hijacking a U.S. commercial passenger airliner in Athens to Beirut - TWA flight 847 - on 14 June 1985, beating and holding passengers aboard that flight, and murdering Robert Dean Stethem, a US Navy diver, on the same flight.
At his trial he confessed to having helped stage the 17-day hijacking to demand the release of 700 Lebanese detainees held by Israel, but he denied killing 23-year-old Stethem.
US authorities had requested his extradition so he could stand trial in the United States, but the government of Germany, which has no death penalty, insisted on prosecuting him in Germany.
Hamadi has two brothers, also with Hezbollah - Abdul Hadi and Abbas Ali. Abdul Hadi was security chief of Hezbollah when his brother was arrested in Germany.
Abbas Ali was also sentenced to 13 years of imprisonment in Germany for plotting the kidnapping of two Germans in the 1980s in Beirut in the hope of forcing the release of his brother. Abbas Ali was released after he served his term.
Commentators have speculated that Hamadi's release may be connected to the freeing Sunday of German hostage Susanne Osthoff in Iraq. German authorities had already tried to use Hamadi as a bargaining chip in the late 1980s to secure the release of German hostages in Lebanon.
However the German Foreign Ministry denies any link between the releases of Hamadi and Osthoff. "There is no connection between these two cases," Foreign Ministry spokesman Martin JÀger said in remarks to Reuters.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
12/20/2005 15:08 ||
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This one REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY grates on me. A hijacker, murderer, and carried explosives on a commercial airliner. And the Germans release him, in a probable deal.
Our list of allies grows thinner, but at least we know where they stand, and we can plan accordingly. One thing on the list of things to do is to track down this rat bastard and kill him. These guys need to know that we will follow them to the far ends of the earth, for as long as it takes, and make them pay for their crimes. And the same thing goes for those individuals, entities, and states that knowingly harbor, aid, or abet them.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
12/20/2005 19:40 Comments ||
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The Krauts have gone now what, 60 years or so without staring a war? This is just their little anal, Krautly way of flipping us off.
#4
These guys need to know that we will follow them to the far ends of the earth, for as long as it takes, and make them pay for their crimes.
This would never work within your political framework. All it would take is the election of a Democratic president. If you're taking heat for what Bush is doing now, think of the sh%t hitting the fan if this was put in effect. It worked for Israel but they are not a divided nation.
Posted by: Rafael ||
12/20/2005 22:54 Comments ||
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Forgot to add...it's a hell of a good idea though.
Posted by: Rafael ||
12/20/2005 22:55 Comments ||
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December 20, 2005: In a long-distance radio interview about ten days ago, Mullah Dadullah, the one-legged Taliban veteran who appears to command insurgent operations in Afghanistan, declared that, âThe expansion of NATO operations in Afghanistan and increase in the number of NATO troops will make it easier for the Taliban to target and attack them." Dadullah, who was Taliban intelligence chief when the Islamist movement ran Afghanistan, is believed hiding out somewhere in the mountainous region astride the Afghan-Pakistani frontier. Of greater interest is the contents of a video that seems to have been released shortly the interview.
In the video, Dadullah is shown making the usual Taliban anti-infidel pitch. At one point he refers to Osama bin-Laden, using the words, âsitting beside me.â There is then a clip of bin-Laden, who says a few appropriately belligerent words. The monitor then cuts back to Dudullah, who continues his diatribe. The video, which apparently has not yet seen wide circulation, has reportedly provoked a good deal of attention from intelligence specialists.
Osama bin-Laden has not been heard from in over a year. Intelligence analysts specializing in Al-Qaeda, including âprofilersâ who have been carefully studying bin-Ladenâs personality and habits, suggest that the video may be a clumsy attempt to send a âsignalâ that the terrorist leader is still very much in charge of operations, and is blessing Dadullahâs message. The argue that after so long an absence from the public eye, it would be unlike bin-Laden to play âsecond fiddleâ in a relatively minor announcement. Experts in video technology are subjecting the footage to detailed examination, to see what information can be cleaned from clip of bin-Laden (e.g., has it appeared before? was it made recently?, etc.). Meanwhile, questions remain as to the whereabouts, health, and role of Osama bin-Laden, and even whether he is alive or not.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/20/2005 09:12 ||
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Mullah Da Dullah is one of the stuck on stupid names of all time.
#2
Maybe our psyops need to start making fake Osama broadcasts:
"By Allah, I command all mujahadin to go to the corner of Splopydope and Goatfuck with the names of all your contacts and safehouses. Go quietly with the nice men who come to pick you up. Thay are our new Western recruits. Really!"
#4
Don't we have some Hollywood directors helping us make stuff like this to confuse the enemy. You know, Bin laden next to Kerry, saying the Patriots will win it all.
The past few days have been somewhat contentious here at the 'Burg. We've had some discussion behind the scenes about certain disruptive conversations in the comments and whether or not their actions warrant more serious consequences than a modslap. So far, we've not taken any decisions, preferring to hope that the disruptions will subside on their own.
Please remember that we are all here as Fred's guests, and that his hospitality can and will be withdrawn if the hassles outweigh the benefits of hosting a no-registration comments section.
Your humble mods would like to request that, in the spirit of the holiday season and in recognition that we are all a little busy with family / travel/ year-end work issues, all posters strive towards civil, well-reasoned discourse.
In December 2002, several Navy ships deployed to the Middle East, on their way to begin staging for Operation Iraqi Freedom. As the ships left the docks, the PA announced: "Peace on Earth to men of good will. All others, stand by."
Please consider this as you submit posts and comments, and thanks for all your contributions!
#2
Repent now Badanov. I think she is referring to a formal shunning or excommunication. As soon as I get back to Salt Lake City I will look into the matter further with the Chief Seer and Revelator and see if there is any hope for us.
#6
Lol, guyz. Well, for once, I'm pretty sure it wudn't me, lol, though I could be mistaken - as I often am regards my dealings with two-legged critters. Let me know if I've offended - I'm outta that game now, sans direct attacks, of course. Not worthy of the effort and time, wastes Fred's bandwidth, and the trolls these days, pfeh, the quality is dismal and the argumentation is aimlessly repetitive.
#10
Its pretty obvious that the majority of people
that hang out in this site on a regular basis are politcally conservative republicans. It's also very obvious that these persons cannot tolerate dissenting opinions of and show outright hostility toward liberal democrats. It's also very obvious that most of these people have overly inflated ego's and opinions of themselves
and their so-called intellectual superiority.
In the eyes of these people President Bush is above the law and beyond criticism. He is not.
Fred these are the people, you need to talk to.
Your regulars. They are rude, contentious and hostile. Engaging in a civil conversation with them is almost impossible, because they think they know everything. Tell them to calm down.
They take politics way to serious.
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/20/2005 9:17 Comments ||
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Hi, Left Angle. You misspelled 'too' but the rest is a nice improvement over yesterday's attempts.
Dissent is more than welcome - you just have to be willing to back things up with facts and not try to pass off "I read it so it's probably true" as a serious argument. As we mentioned before, the national security and military issues discussed here are topics that many RB regulars have years of personal, hands-on, up-close experience with. Doesn't mean they can't be disagreed with, but you'd better come prepared to have a serious discussion backed by references and facts.
It's also the case that many here used to be liberal Democrats. Some of the anger you see is due to a deep sense that the party they (we) supported a long time has sold itself out, and the country along with it, while doing less and less for those in whose name it purports to act: women, children, those in need.
Now, that too can be discussed if you like. But again, be prepared to be challenged and to back up any assertions you make. Namecalling and gay references won't do it ... but if you're willing to get into serious issues with serious intent, have at it!
#13
Actually, we've been waiting for four years for Democrats to have some ideas and discuss them reasonably rather than seething, whingeing, obstructionating, and backstabbing.
#17
In the spirit of the holidays, I will only post non-contentious comments per Seafarious. I guess this means I can't comment on Left Angle's (Anonymous') fact-less statements anymore. At least until after the new year anyway.
#18
I don't read all the posts, but I dont see any gentleman's arguments getting out of hand. I like it when a flaming liberal pipes up and tries to lay his B.S. on someone. He usually gets blasted clear out of cyberspace. It's fun and easy to do. Unless youre talking about people like me (never occured to me until just this second) and my filthy fucking mouth.
#19
The more I think about it, we need trolls.
Sites like Fred's wouldn't be near as fun without howling, wild-eyed liberal alarmists. They will say anything to try to put together a semi-lucid retort to the obvious truth. How fun would it be if you only had staunch GOP'ers touting the latest sucess in Iraq? I have always had this sadistic urge to get liberals all fired up and watch them convulse in their frustration of trying to make us "understand". Seasons Greeting.
#20
FWIW, I don't think LA is a troll. I think she/he is very young, inexperienced, and relies too heavily on trying to score "gotcha" points rather than developing a coherent platform to debate from.
LA: Try to put some substance in your position. Sneering that it's all about oil is pointless here; we've heard it all before and argued it to death. Move past "bumper sticker" philosophy. And learn the difference between republican and libertarian. Just because we disagree with you doesn't make us "politically conservative Republicans". For the record, I voted for Bill Clinton twice and Al Gore. The left can say that the American people have lost faith in the president, but it's a quantifiable fact that it's the Democrats who are losing followers in droves.
#21
It's also very obvious that these persons cannot tolerate dissenting opinions of and show outright hostility toward liberal democrats.
Oh, those "dissenting opinions" can be tolerated no problem. What you're really whining about is that they're picked apart so fast that you can't keep up, right? Well, expect that to happen when your opinions don't have a lot in common with facts.
Fred these are the people, you need to talk to.
Yeah Mr. Pruitt. You need to talk to these people, these rude, contentious, and hostile individuals. Why, it's as if dissent was being stifled! Oh, the injustice of it all!
#22
Its pretty obvious that the majority of people
that hang out in this site on a regular basis are politcally conservative republicans. It's also very obvious that these persons cannot tolerate dissenting opinions of and show outright hostility toward liberal democrats. It's also very obvious that most of these people have overly inflated ego's and opinions of themselves
and their so-called intellectual superiority.
In the eyes of these people President Bush is above the law and beyond criticism. He is not.
Fred these are the people, you need to talk to.
Your regulars. They are rude, contentious and hostile. Engaging in a civil conversation with them is almost impossible, because they think they know everything. Tell them to calm down.
They take politics way to serious.
Apparently you've just discovered Rantburg, but you haven't gone through the archives or even the Classix. I suggest you do both.
1. Most of us are politically conservative, and many of us are Republicans. "Conservative" has a wide range of definition, and in current parlance it also includes a goodly hunk of (small L) libertarianism. "Conservative" for our purposes runs the gamut from Paleo- to Neo-, Adam Smith to Hayek. The few liberals who are regulars are classical liberals, or liberals who take the WoT seriously.
2. Dissenting opinions are always welcome, but as has been stated in several of the threads you've participated in, they're expected to be backed up by facts. The mere fact that you have an opinion doesn't mean that it's valid. Several of us have in fact changed opinions that we've held in the face of factual arguments to the contrary. When you make a statement that's incorrect, chances are someone will correct you. Don't take it personally; it happens to all of us, me included.
3. Most of the liberal Democrat arguments have already been made here. Remember, the site's four years old, with lots of commentary every day. If you have some new opinions, feel free to present them. Talking points don't do it, though.
We have near-uniformly low opinions of Harry Reid, of Nancy Pelosi, most people named Kennedy, and the rest of the usual liberal suspects. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, the staff of The Nation, Jane Fonda, and Susan Sontag make most of us want to spit. Sorry. That's just the way it is.
4. Most of the "inflated egos" you see are well-deserved. Most of our contributors are pretty well educated, though I suspect few are Liberal Artists. Most are grounded in tech fields. I'd guess the majority have military experience, so they've "been there, done that." There are lots of subject matter experts.
5. Bush is neither above the law nor beyond criticism. But at the same time, most of us see him doing the right things in response to specific situations and threats. That could be because we're mindless Republican automatons, or it could be because we've been watching events unfold and trying to guess what he's going to have to do next and at the same time trying to figure what we'd do in the same place. There's not blind support here, but there is a lot of admiration. Go to the archives and click on 9/11/2001. Read it. Put yourself in his position on that day and on the days following and try and imagine exactly what you'd have done to protect the nation.
6. One man's rudeness, contentiousness and hostility is another man's lively debate. Our friend Aris comes by regularly and argues in favor of Brussels and the EU. Not Mike Moore comes by and stirs the pot with opinions that are more liberal -- but usually better defended -- than yours. There are a few others who drop by now and then as well. I like having them around so we don't get stale. But again, they defend their opinions and they give as good as they get.
The trolls who come around are sometimes banned. We don't tolerate racial slurs or other kinds of haters -- that's a trip to the sink trap. The rest might also be jumped on, mocked, derided, and have their intellectual pants pulled down as they're knocked over backwards in the schoolyard. Most genuine trolls who aren't banned stick around for a few days and then move on to greener, more comfortable pastures. Like tends to seek like.
I like to think that occasionally someone with opinions like yours will lurk for a time and actually pay attention. They might learn something, might even change some of their opinions. This implies they've got at least a basic knowledge of the rules of cause and effect, the ability to at least try to think predictively, and a world view that extends beyond the political, perhaps all the way into reality.
7. Most of us don't take politix way too seriously. Speaking strictly for myself, I regard it as a necessary constraint on actually getting things done. If you get too wrapped up in the political trees you miss the forest.
My own interests are pretty narrow, a fact which Rantburg reflects: Page 1 is for WoT operations. It consists of enemy attacks, our operations against them, arrests, convictions, and order of battle information. Page 2 is the diplomacy and politics behind Page 1. My concern is how one affects the other. Page 3 is non-WoT related stuff, not just clowns and jugglers and Britney's bosom, but the background noise of war and revolution and posing and posturing that's the norm in the world. If your primary interests are Page 1 and Page 2 you'll have a good time at Rantburg. If you're looking for a site to discuss politics you're probably better off someplace else.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/20/2005 11:05 Comments ||
Top||
#23
are pretty well educated, though I suspect few are Liberal Artists
Hey!
#25
We have near-uniformly low opinions of Harry Reid, of Nancy Pelosi, most people named Kennedy, and the rest of the usual liberal suspects. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, the staff of The Nation, Jane Fonda, and Susan Sontag make most of us want to spit. Sorry. That's just the way it is.
While Fred's list is hardley all inclusive, there is indeed whale kak... then just below whale kak you will find the roster of socialist, pedifilic misfits, traitors, and chad-hanging scum which he mentions.
#26
Maybe what rantburg needs is some bouncers on staff.
Are these guys available?
Posted by: Phil ||
12/20/2005 11:33 Comments ||
Top||
#27
Of course, there's also some of us that think Conservatives are too warm and fuzzy for us, and so we belong to the Imperialist Warmonger Party. Once the US takes over the world, then we can fix it.
/Sarcasm off (Sort of)
The amount of intellect and practical knowledge not just of the military and intelligence communities but really, all subjects here staggers the mind. While I enjoy little green footballs and other sites, it is here that I come to not just learn the news but to enjoy comments and arguements so well pieced together that it's clear the common rantburger could run rings around most journalists.
It's inspirational as well, since it makes me seek to improve my own thoughts, beliefs and ability to argue my points. There's a high standard here when it comes to true discussion and to seek to be on it's level is a very worthy goal.
Thanks Fred and everyone else, for giving those of us coming up the goalposts to reach for. And we can all hope that Oldspook doesn't sneak in to move the goalposts further ahead too often.
#28
certain disruptive conversations in the comments and whether or not their actions warrant more serious consequences than a modslap
seems to contradict:
Rantburg welcomes comments from all political stripes, and we have posters from umpteen countries. When you comment, be prepared to defend your arguments. If you can't, be prepared for mockery, derision, occasional flung fruit, or even to be ignored. Look at the logo: "Rantburg: Civil, Well-Reasoned Discourse". Look at the rest of it. Those two guys are not doing the foxtrot.
#29
Fred these are the people, you need to talk to.
Your regulars. They are rude, contentious and hostile. Engaging in a civil conversation with them is almost impossible, because they think they know everything.
#30
When 9/11 happened, I had a 9-month old son. That son, now just having celebrated his 5th birthday, is growing up into what kind of a world? The mindless fools who populate the congress don't have a clue as to what the threat is. Often I take to ridicule to make my points, and yes sometimes it is a little over the top.
But the likes of Harry Reid, Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pelosi, John F Kerry are such rich targets for humor.
But every person whose attention we can get to, about the threat from both within and without, is another person who will be a little more circumspect when entering the polling booth, and less likely to choose based on the promise of a better "Roman Circus". Those kinds of choices met with disaster in the 5th century, and could befall us if we are not careful.
As Hugh Hewitt likes to say, "I don't like you cause youre gonna get me killed." I think that sums it up well. And when the clueless troll in here, they should understand that most of us have no use for those policies and actions which could be the end of us all.
#33
"If your primary interests are Page 1 and Page 2 you'll have a good time at Rantburg. If you're looking for a site to discuss politics you're probably better off someplace else."
Amen to that. There are folks on both sides who come here to discuss domestic USA politics, and who bring it in inappropriate ways to page 1 and 2 discussions. Including several regulars. Ive done my best lately to avoid such discussions, but dont think im unaware of the bias.
And whats this thing about liberal arts? I daresay, givent the kind of war we're fighting, knowledge of cultures and how they evolve seems to me as important as tech knowledge. The problem right now is that certain areas of the liberal arts are dominated by people with a distorted viewpoint - Im thinking esp of Middle East Studies.
#34
Islam is not a race, nor is it a religion. It's a death cult bent on destroying the world. Therefore, it does not qualify for such protections. Hating Islam is like hating rabies.
#35
"Bush is neither above the law nor beyond criticism. But at the same time, most of us see him doing the right things in response to specific situations and threats. That could be because we're mindless Republican automatons, or it could be because we've been watching events unfold and trying to guess what he's going to have to do next and at the same time trying to figure what we'd do in the same place. There's not blind support here, but there is a lot of admiration"
And there are some folks here who take the WOT very seriously, and have some real difficulties with lots of things Bush has said and done, both before 9/11 and since. To the point where admiration is not a good way to charecterize our feelings for him.
I admire John McCain at least as strongly as I do Bush, and McCain is no liberal, lefty or Democrat. And he is a strong supporter of firm measures in the WOT, and in Iraq. yet some folks here drool with hatred whenever his name is mentioned. Which also does not improve the atmosphere.
#36
"Islam is not a race, nor is it a religion. It's a death cult bent on destroying the world. Therefore, it does not qualify for such protections. Hating Islam is like hating rabies. "
#37
Spembelov - You just ruined three months of work on the "see clearly" method which is supposed to wean me from my glasses... Back to square one...
;-)
Seriously I think this is a good chance to air out issues, and because my preferred section is Page 2, I know that I am indeed in the correct place...
#39
"They are rude, contentious and hostile. Engaging in a civil conversation with them is almost impossible, because they think they know everything."
welcome to da internet. Frankly, as a neoluddite, i think the rudeness,etc are a good thing, as it forces us to have our most important discussions in real life :)
Like Fred said (kinda) , this is a good place to keep up with the more obscure news about the WOT - stuff that doesnt make the headlines. Its not a terribly good place to discuss domestic US politics (but in fairness there are few online venues that are)
#40
Islam is not a race, nor is it a religion. It's a death cult bent on destroying the world. Therefore, it does not qualify for such protections. Hating Islam is like hating rabies.
Funny, you would've been great pals with a certain historical figure circa the 1930/40s.
The democratic leadership & leftist activist you call the "ususal suspects" make you want to spit?
Then you should have absolutely no problem with the fact that many on the left feel exactly the same way about President Bush, his administration and his followers.
As far as learning something from Republican conservatives, oh yes i learn quite a bit.
The primary thing that I have learned about Repubs/cons is that they have a very odd relationship with REALITY. There is a very strong disconnect between what is actually
happening and what they see as happening.
The inflated ego's are well deserved? get real lmao
Dude this is the internet..people can represent themselves whichever way they want. I see absolutely no "super-advanced" intellects in here among the right wingers. Just a bunch of
people pretending to be. I am totally unimpressed by people that consistently echo rnc
talking points and more to the point post them
as if they are facts.
Oh and finally, your condescending, eltist and
artificially conceited tone is unwarranted. I'm just trying who youre trying to impress.
Us "people with opinions like yours"
are here to stay. And if we criticize your president and you cant deal with it thats your problem not ours. This is our country too. We are the Democrats and there are millions of us.
Or maybe you'd prefer that we just split up the country, all the repubs on their side, all the dems on theirs..lol
#45
Some months ago, I made a pronouncement on French history here. JFM politely corrected me, and I learned something. I found further discussions with him via email to be very helpful, as I was home schooling #3 daughter at the time and we were studying Europe.
Whether you're a Christian or not, please pay attention to this statement from the Apostle James:
With the tongue we praise our Lord and father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness. Out of the same mouth comes blessing and cursing. My brothers, this should not be. Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? James 3:9-11
Trying to talk sense to a troll is like shoveling snow with a teaspoon. But let's not yield to the temptation to talk like trolls ourselves.
There are plenty of America haters who take the low road: "My president can drink your honor student under the table" is one such despicable jab. My grandma always used to say that people who swear and insult others do so because they haven't got the brains to saw anything better.
Leave the low road to those who haven't anything better to say.
#47
And if we criticize your president and you cant deal with it thats your problem not ours. This is our country too.
What, precisely, does that have to do with how Fred and the mods run a privately-owned weblog? We aren't discussing your right to criticize the president, we are discussing your behavior here. And whether you and I are "here to stay" is solely at the discretion of the owner.
#48
Little troll, you are so funny! You don't have the intellect to understand that you're both being mocked and jeered at in very polite terms by people you don't have the mental capacity to do verbal battle with.
I have NEVER been either a Democrat or a Republican. I am a proud, fourth-generation Jacksonian sombi$$$. We laugh at you, and try to educate you in the folly of your verbal abuse because we have DECADES of experience in the political wackiness of Washington. I voted in my first presidential election in 1968, when you still had to be 21 and assumed to be an adult. I haven't missed one since. I've watched the actions of Democrats from LBJ through Bill Clinton in the oval office, and I've watched Congress move from being a semi-representative government to a fully-self-serving bunch of hypocrites. Most of us here have similar backgrounds, or are at least willing to listen to the voice of history.
We have some highly-educated, intelligent, THINKING people here. Your insults are pathetic. WE know each other, our varied backgrounds, and we trust the words most of us say. As for RNC talking points, you come in here and sneer at us, while preaching the DNC talking points of the day. Do you think we're really that stupid that we don't see this?
I suggest you either do some serious thinking, or find some other nest to foul.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
12/20/2005 14:09 Comments ||
Top||
#49
The point mous (LA) seems to miss in his "Dude" statement about the internet, it is a private site, all are welcome that have something to add, if your not prepared to defend yourself don't comment, and repeating the same bumper stickers over and over is a waste of Fred valuable bandwidth. This is a great site, I have, and continue to learn from it. I have not been there and done that, just a poor speller thats pushing my 25th year in the Army. Folks like TW, .com, old spook, all help me learn more and expand beyond where I was. Lotp and the other more liberals on the site really add to the thought process and I find their arguments challenging and enjoyable. Fred, don't change a thing, nugs like LA will move on once they feel they have shown us, or their mother takes the computer away.
Posted by: 49 pan ||
12/20/2005 14:16 Comments ||
Top||
#50
As far as labeling myself as to what "side" I was affiliated to, I must say I formed my opinions from the MSM, and other news sources that knew/knows how to brainwash. I truly don't know what I am now, as far as to affiliation with which party. I cross over on so many issues of liberal and conservatism.
I absolutely love this site. I feel very uneducated for a college graduate, regarding many of the issues discussed here. I love the news items and especially the comments to see all of the different points of view. I especially love that alot of the posters seem to have a military background and to get their insight, with my son in the military as well. I could care less about "representing myself in any way", but more importantly getting info straight. I've found that while I've been known to harbor a strong opinion on some topics, after reading others points of view here, feeling myself swayed, or as they say, the lightbulb going on.
This site makes you think, and I love all of the input and sites that are offered. My only problem is not enough time to read them all. With having to miss days at a time.
As far as the comments that get snarley and nasty, they should in time tire of themselves and go away, I hope. Sorry, I didn't like reading the attacks either on some of the threads.
Posted by: Jan ||
12/20/2005 14:45 Comments ||
Top||
The democratic leadership & leftist activist you call the "ususal suspects" make you want to spit?
Then you should have absolutely no problem with the fact that many on the left feel exactly the same way about President Bush, his administration and his followers.
No skin off my fore. Like I said, the mere fact that you have an opinion doesn't make it valid.
As far as learning something from Republican conservatives, oh yes i learn quite a bit.
The primary thing that I have learned about Repubs/cons is that they have a very odd relationship with REALITY. There is a very strong disconnect between what is actually
happening and what they see as happening.
Since I'm capable of taking a set of facts, analyzing them, making some tentative predictions based upon them, and seeing the prediction turn into events, my feedback loop says I have a fairly sound grasp of reality. How's yours work?
The inflated ego's are well deserved? get real lmao
Dude this is the internet..
Like, whoa, dewd! That's like, profound!
people can represent themselves whichever way they want. I see absolutely no "super-advanced" intellects in here among the right wingers. Just a bunch of
people pretending to be. I am totally unimpressed by people that consistently echo rnc
talking points and more to the point post them
as if they are facts.
Damn! Caught me out, didja? I confess: I'm actually a 14-year-old girl named Tiffany, who spends her time cruising the internet to meet policemen for sex.
I haven't seen anybody pretending to be a super-advanced intellect, though we've had several visitors, you among them, who've proven that they aren't. Whether you're impressed or not is a matter of total indifference to most, if not all, of us.
Oh and finally, your condescending, eltist and
artificially conceited tone is unwarranted. I'm just trying who youre trying to impress.
Damn again. Here I thought I was trying to be polite and reasonable. Try this: You don't like it, piss off.
Us "people with opinions like yours"
are here to stay. And if we criticize your president and you cant deal with it thats your problem not ours. This is our country too. We are the Democrats and there are millions of us.
Just not quite as many millions as there are of Republicans.
Or maybe you'd prefer that we just split up the country, all the repubs on their side, all the dems on theirs..lol
Hyuk hyuk. Don't try to be a wit. You only make it half way.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/20/2005 14:50 Comments ||
Top||
#55
Thank you, 49pan, your generosity makes me blush. You have a standing invitation to tea. ;-)
In all fairness though, Left Angle/Anonymous could sneer at me I suppose, because I never did get those degrees in mathematics and dance I had so much fun studying for (yes, one does have to study for a B.A./Dance, so y'all with serious degrees can stop snickering!), because I got distracted by other things, like the various languages I studied while living "over there" -- there is absolutely nothing that provides the amusement value of having a truly serious philosophical discussion with a professor and a beribboned "von __" using the vocabulary of the playground and the pre-school... not to mention that really horrible six months when I was an accounts payable bookkeeper, before I smartened up and went into research with a consumer products company.
My read on Left Angle is one of callow youth -- probably accustomed to being the bright one in his group. The type of which it is said, A man who isn't a liberal in his youth has no heart, but one who doesn't become conservative with age has no brain. A great many of us here have lived that progression, and it is unfortunate for LA's preconceptions that at the moment the Democratic Party is playing the part of hide-bound conservatism, while it is the Republican Party that experiments with radically changing the status quo ante. And if the trailing daughters are a fair sample of the upcoming generation, the trend is only going to accelerate over the course of the next generation, before the pendulum swings back again -- leaving you cynics and libertarians standing not-so-quietly to one side, smirking at the rest of us. ;-)
P.S. If I were feeling mean, I'd make L.A. take a private course of study with liberalhawk on the logic and methodology of Socialist arguments over time, with a side venture into the history and relationships of the various factions of the Socialist/Communist philosophy.
#56
lol lol lol
haw, I knew you were a 14 year old girl (must be Fredette?), are you sure you're looking for a policeman or is it a police woman, heh.
no worries, hopefully folks with other agenda's will go away. I definitely like statements backed up by links.
Posted by: Jan ||
12/20/2005 15:14 Comments ||
Top||
#57
The yoot argument doesn't have much sway with me. Dan D is also a callow yoot and seems to be able to grasp cause/effect with little problem. For that matter, Trailing Daughter can make the connections pretty well too. (PS tw please send me a email. I have a question for you.)
We are discussing matters of life and death here, LeftAngle. If you think Rantburg makes it hard to dissent, you should try the tender mercies of the Caliphate sometime. Which is what Dubya is working to prevent.
#60
#28Â certain disruptive conversations in the comments and whether or not their actions warrant more serious consequences than a modslap
seems to contradict:
Rantburg welcomes comments from all political stripes, and we have posters from umpteen countries. When you comment, be prepared to defend your arguments. If you can't, be prepared for mockery, derision, occasional flung fruit, or even to be ignored. Look at the logo: "Rantburg: Civil, Well-Reasoned Discourse". Look at the rest of it. Those two guys are not doing the foxtrot.
please stay consistent, mods
Creng Gleremble7784, I urge you to carefully examine the Rantburg logo again. If you are unable to appreciate the juxtaposition of "Civil, Well-Reasoned Discourse" and two blokes engaged in fisticuffs, you are in desperate need of a humor suppository transplant.
PS: The mods here are exceptionally consistent. Beyond that, Fred is a veritable model with respect to freedom of speech at these boards. If you bother to stick around, be prepared to have you basic understanding of global politics and mainstream journalistic reporting stood on its ear. I, myself, owe Rantburg a debt of honor for giving me much deeper insight into just how inadequately most people and politicians alike are addressing the global war on terrorism.
#61
I just love this site! I learn more here in a day than I do from the MSM in..., oh well, never mind THAT comparison.
Youngsters think they know all. Most times they do not have the self confidence to admit that their current points of view should be modified when they learn new information.
I want to take this time to thank Fred, Old Patriot, .com, TGA, Trailing Wife, the "Army of Steve", Liberalhawk, philb and all of the rest of you for the incredible breadth and depth of information you provide.
#62
Is that really, LA? I'll translate for him.
See, he's right and you're all wrong.
The smart ones are here today, LA. You won't last five minutes.
Lemme know when the Log Cabin Club comes up. I have to go do some work.
#66
Back from the dead again I am, and its nice to see such lively discourse after my extended absence. As if anyone noticed my absence anyway.
Not that anyone here gives a shit, but:
I don't blindly support any politician, and I hope noone else who visits this site often does either, but if they do that's his/her business and they may argue whatever point they want as is their right.
That being said, I don't pretend to know enough about the law or precedent to open my mouth amongst some of the intellects present regarding the subject matter this site focuses on.
Most who disagree with the Burg's regulars are derided and made fun of and pissed on. So what, if you can't argue your points with the big dogs, stay off the fuckin porch.
I genuinely disagree with some opinions posted here, but again many of the locals have far superior knowledge than I do on issues of National Security, so I listen and learn. Dangerous huh, listening and learning.
I may think .com among others is a SOB sometimes, but he knows he is and he revels in it. Reminds me of my father in law actually, but I do respect his ability to present sound arguments, and he has convinced me to side with more than one of his opinions. Disturbing isn't it .com?
But again, it's great to see such discourse, argumentative or not as it shows people are thinking.
Fred, I immensely enjoy your sight. I may be a unique quantity in that as I am not politically aligned with most of your locals, but I realized long ago that listening is more conducive to learning than talking is.
#67
LA, those who genuinely believe "rofl" backs up their arguments generally, in my experience, turn out not to have the intellectual capacity to type out the entire phrase. Prove me wrong, and we'll see how Rantburg works out for you.
#70
Shhhhh, EP, lol! I sent the money, man, I promise - Western Onion!
BTW, I'm no run-o-the-mill SOB, I consider myself a pluperfect SOB, lol.
Y'know, it isn't, and wasn't, easy reaching any of the conclusions I have. I know some of the folks out there is IslamoWakiLands- but I also know they wouldn't hesitate for a second to bring the US down - whatever that takes. It took me about a year after leaving to begin thinking the unthinkable. And then more than another year to finally accept the fatal Us vs Them conclusion. That came when I realized they will leave us no choice, they will never stop. As long as they draw breath and have funds, they will seek our destruction.
Interestingly, or I think so, anyway, I haven't the same problem with our own seditious bastards - they can and should know better. Where the Islamonutz, both active and passive, have been indoctrinated from birth and do not see or hear enough of any other worldview to override it, our internal moonbats and Tranzis do - they've willfully chosen, with full knowledge, to become sheeple to the OWG they screech about so stridently. Willful ignorance zooms to the top of my targeting list - with a "bullet", so to speak.
#71
Don't get me wrong, I concur with much of what you just said. Dhimmitude blather aside for many of my personally chosen vote recipients, but I grew up in the land of cotton and old times there are not forgotten.
However, I do believe procedure is important and see some definite lack thereof being displayed, not that others haven't or wouldn't do the same. I believe that liberty is costly, and fear for it from both sides of a political structure that seems to exist to perpetuate itself. I have a general distaste for all politicians though, but will admit I have been accused of politickin in my day as well.
NAFTA, Billy boy Clinton, god save the queen for that sell out of working class America. But this is a blog for defense issues, not politics so I'll save the diatribes for another more appropriate forum.
That being said, I seek the destruction of our enemies, hell I'm a gun totin' hick bastard who votes for total annihalation in my personal opines, but international politics is a game and I know sometimes even we mighty sons of liberty must play it.
But I'll agree to disagree and move forward with the opinion that rat bastards like yourself and others here would be welcome in my line against any enemy, foreign or domestic every day of the week.
#72
The primary thing that I have learned about Repubs/cons is that they have a very odd relationship with REALITY
The primary thing I've learned about Dems/libs is that they have a limited grasp of punctuation and grammar. Which is what happens when you enroll your children in Californiaâs âeducationalâ system.
Something happened and I seem to have missed it. It seems to have involved LA and his reactions to certain comments made by other RBers.
I miss all the fun
Old Patriot - I read your site from time to time.
LA/Anonymous - I hold a PhD in Religion, a BSc in Biology, a Doctor of Divinity (honorary, of course), a BS in Military History, and am working on another higher degree. I currently work security for one of the nation's most prestigious national laboratories (because it's how I can contribute to the WOT). My previous military experience is serving alongside men in uniform in the field in places we were not supposed to be (me especially as I could have been shot out of hand and those I worked for wouldn't have ever even acknowledged that I even existed).
I've been a lifelong Republican and I've even run for Congress (2000).
None of this makes me special or better than anyone else here on RB.
You see us as seeing what you call reality differently and thus, that viewpoint is completely invalid in your world and in your viewpoint.
OF COURSE IT IS! Did you really expect to see things any differently? If so, then you still have much to learn. That's not an insult, BTW - I still have much to learn.
Here's a clue - EVERYONE sees reality a little differently from everyone else.
That doesn't necessarily make their perceptions or viewpoints wrong.
Remember that when you judge, you are also being judged.
When people come to realize that they are being judged by people (or in my case at least, a much higher entity) who have different standards and values than their own, it often comes as a complete shock to their psyches. I do not hold the same moral values as my God does. I don't hold the same ones anyone else here on this list does (though we may share many of them, few of us share completely identical values).
That doesn't make us wrong. It doesn't make you wrong.
It makes us human.
Humans disagree with one another. It's part of what sets us apart from the animals and other lower forms. We have free will. That means the ability to choose what we think and what viewpoint to subscribe to.
#79
Left Angle /Anonymous /Gromoger Spoling6144 needs to hit the Sink Trap. I can't stand the arrogant Greek, but at least the Greek brings facts to the table with some logic, good vocabulary, and good spelling too. LA/A/GS6144 is only here to harass, and it's pathetic.
#80
GS will still be standing there, smugly prattling on, convinced it holds some sort of high ground, when those who would use ovens drag it away. Pathetic fool - can't read, hasn't paid attention, doesn't reason, never been anywhere, clueless, and defenseless.
#81
I found this site a few months back by accident, I was looking for the "Truth", while this sounds vaguely religious, what really happened was that about 15 years ago my home was robbed and burnt to the ground in an sffort to cover the crime AND NOT A SINGLE REFERENCE WAS IN ANY NEWSPAPER, RADIO SPOT, TV, OR ANY FORM OF MEDIA WHATSOEVER.
This got me thinking just what else is left out as "Non Newsworthy" (And no, there was no big breaking news that would tend to drown "Little" stuff out, it was just ignored.)
Since then I've found that what's published is very highly manipulated, there's no such thing as "Free Press" anymore, it's all controlled and heavily slanted to a particular owners agenda.
Fortunately the owners agenda's do not all agree, so there are "Cracks" in coverage from time to time.
Then the phenominon known as Internet came to semi-maturity, and other folks who'd also noticed the slanted media began printing what really happened without the "Media's" determined slant, and things got much clearer.
Now, I read and watch several different sources and read what's more clearly the truth, still somewhat slanted, but the slants average out, I participate only if I have firsthand knowledge to pass along, and mostly I listen,learn and am silent.
I read Rantburg daily, because it's clearest as to "Who, What, When, Where, How and Why" I contribute rarely, and debate both when I do know, and when I want to learn.
Left Angle,(Or whatever alias you use)Parroting a "Party Line" gets you ignored.
Rational thought will get you listened to and discussed with, but not just mindless repeated slander.
Learn and grow, I did, and still am learning, it's painfull to learn that you've been lied to so severely that you believe those lies with all your heart, most folks can't get past the denial that they've been so fooled, that's you son, you've been had, bad. step one is to realize it, step two is to get mad, and step three is to try to find what the truth really is.
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
12/20/2005 20:34 Comments ||
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#82
My own personal threshold has been crossed earlier on, both by LA/Anon and ALSO by the kill all the Muzzies talk. I guess that makes me one of the more 'liberal' moderators here at Fred's valuable site. But it is Fred's site and I yield to his judgements about where he draws the line. He's usually more lenient than I would be on such things. RB works, so who am I to second guess that?
I'm used to straddling several worlds. My undergrad is in the REAL liberal arts Mike LOL (St. John's College, 1970s where yes, I started with classical Greek and worked my way up to the 20th century in western thought, then later went back and did it in eastern thought as well). My first grad degree is in the humanities, 2nd in business, ongoing doctoral work in computer science / artificial intelligence and robotics. My professional practice was in high tech, both commercial and military markets and my spouse is a retired military officer. We both support the WOT via professional roles that contribute to our military today - which is why, by the way LA, I "hang around discussion boards" from time to time despite having spent many years working 60 and 70 hr weeks as a techie and then executive.
Like others here, I've learned some from our regular contributors and sometimes from newbies here. Perhaps I've broadened the viewpoints of a few others. And I try to help pay for my benefit from Rantburg by helping with the admin/mod chores.
My daughter was 1/4 mile from the Twin Towers on 9/11. We had friends in the wing of the Pentagon that was hit. And since I work with young soldiers and with officers, in the years since I have been to more than one funeral of heroes who sacrified their comfort, their time with families, their peace of mind and their lives on my behalf and yours. I am more humbled and more grateful for their service than I can put into words and it is my firm intent that that sacrifice will not be allowed to be frittered away or diluted by inattention or paralysis on the domestic political front.
I also blog from time to time elsewhere under another nym, usually under my real life name.
#88
"..most folks can't get past the denial that they've been so fooled, that's you son, you've been had, bad. Step one is to realize it, step two is to get mad, and step three is to try to find what the truth really is." Redneck Jim speaks volumes. And AT2555 is stuck on step 3.
#89
Geez, don't any of the anonymous wankers out there think it through for themselves?
AT, have you been paying attention since 9/11? Even a little? You're either suffering from an attention deficit or diminished capacity to process the data.
You didn't read and comprehend what I wrote. Sheesh. Being honest is a waste of time.
The world you live in, that thing you call civilization and think is the norm, lol, it's as thin and fragile as a soap bubble. Much of the world - yes, that's correct - doesn't share your bubble. They don't much care what pontificating posturing faux-logic you employ nor how impressed you are with yourself. You're just an infidel. You and yours are mere cattle.
I'm not being clever, I'm experienced. The difference is huge.
Ah, nevermind. There's no point in this shit - which is why I've laid off posting as much recently. You and the other children prove the point to me every time I venture into more depth than the typical snark. Doesn't matter.
And if this pathetic little Libral Arz graduate (Russian with a side of Spanish) can make a suggestion:
Could we knock it off with the "Kill the Muzzies" statements? Yup, a very few of them deserve killin', as the memorable phrase goes, but....substitute "Joooos" or "Americans" in there, and it could be an al-Qaeda/Fatah slogan. Rantburg's better than that.
#91
Anon and cronies are here in prep for the next presidential election. That's it, that all.
Political operatives (read, TROLLS) like Anon seek "fallow ground" in which to plant dissent and discord. By attempting to demonize conservative opposition (rather than offering substantive discourse), their aim is to gain a few followers by appealing to the undecided or left-leaning (which represents victory in their playbook), and also to weaken the confidence of the right (also a victory). Anon's devolvement into the nether world of insults and inuendo reveals the core plan, and, happily, it also reveals that Anon is feeling the heat.
Some advice about TROLLS: first, it ain't about what they're (supposedly) talking about; second, you can reason with them until you're blue in the face because it ain't about what they're talking about. Their agenda is outside the realm of reason or subject matter, so it's somewhat of a waste of time to banter with them. (I'm not saying it can't be fun, I'm just saying it's a waste of time). What isn't a waste of time is the wonderful opportunity to learn from TROLLS about TROLLS, and about the left.
Finally, of course we tolerate TROLLS here. IMO, Zenster is one of our beloved TROLLS on the Burg, and no one gives him too hard of a time despite the fact. And personally, I miss the old TROLL hunting safaris . . . used to be the bright spot in my day, but I just don't have enough time anymore, and the TROLLS have learned to steer clear.
So chill, Anon, and step up--or find somewhere else to play.
#92
The only person that keeps mentioning that is the troll I think. I know I haven't seen anybody on here calling for it in a long time and they usually get squished for it.
Hell, even I don't call for it or advocate it and I tend to be more maliciously sarcastic than some.
#93
.com, my friend, your "experience" goes back to 11th of September, 2001. Until that time you were living in blissful ignorance.
lotp, I'm thankful to you for having the courage to speak up when confronted with hate. But since this is Fred's site, I'd like to know what is his official opinion on the matter.
Gromoger Spoling6144, are you stuck on stupid or did you just get lucky this time? IT IS THE ISLAMOFASCISTS THAT WANT TO RESTART THE OVENS! Are you so totally unaware that you have not heard of how widely admired Hitler is in the Middle East? "Mein Kampf" remains a bestseller in many Arab countries. Have you ever heard of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion"? Do you have even a remote understanding of how Islamists would have ZERO compunctions about slaughtering this world's population wholesale so long as they managed to install sharia law?
Radical Muslims and all of their mysteriously silent "moderate" Islamic kinfolk are backing themselves into the ovens of genocide. Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons in the cause of "wiping Israel off of the map" may well lead to the complete nuclear immolation of the ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST.
Too often I have been falsely accused here of having a "kill them all" stance regarding Muslims. While this is not true, I have ZERO illusions regarding how it may well become necessary to exterminate every single believer in Islam if this perverted religion refuses to abandon its political ideology along with its agenda of violent conversion and jihad.
We who seek an end to terrorism are not the ones that envision a rekindling of the ovens. Such genocidal visions are the explicit domain of the Islamic terrorists. Should they make the choice one of us entering the ovens or them doing so, I will have ZERO hesitation in making sure it is they who fry into oblivion.
Get a clue. Our world faces the single greatest threat since the Nazis. If this is unclear to you, your accumulated knowledge and learning stand at dismally woeful levels. It is your own blithe disregard for the threat this world faces that is facilitating terrorists and the monstrous peril they represent.
#95
Redneck Jim, what you said. Sorry about your house burning down.
I started looking for more info when my son entered the military, before the 9/11. But only recently found this site.
Posted by: Jan ||
12/20/2005 21:40 Comments ||
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#96
About the "kill all the Muzzies" lingo -- should read "kill all the really bad Muzzies who won't stop their murderous, totalitarian political objectives." But everyone knows that already (some exceptions), and no one "hates" Moslems, per se, just because they're Moslem. It's what some of them DO, that's the problem. There's plenty of Moslems who are fine. Duh.
#99
Wow. Wotta thread! RE: #52 -I have met Fred, and he is NOT 14!
Not 14 years of age, anyway....
Posted by: Bobby ||
12/20/2005 21:53 Comments ||
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#100
#57 I also met Dan D. and he IS (just a little older than) 14 years old!
VERY bright young man!
Keep up the good work, Dan!
Posted by: Bobby ||
12/20/2005 21:57 Comments ||
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#101
My position on killing Muslims is here. I won't be responding to any more of LA's prattle. I don't have the time.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/20/2005 22:00 Comments ||
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#102
#54 Goodnight, LA.
Posted by: Bobby ||
12/20/2005 22:02 Comments ||
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#103
#66 Elvis! Glad to have you back, DUDE! Well said!
Posted by: Bobby ||
12/20/2005 22:05 Comments ||
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#104
#67 TW! Welcome aboard! NICE post! I wish my (semi-adult - 30, 28, 23 Iraqi veteran) children would read the 'Burg!
Posted by: Bobby ||
12/20/2005 22:09 Comments ||
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#105
Oops. Trailing DAUGHTER. I appreciate your Mother's wisdom, though!
Posted by: Bobby ||
12/20/2005 22:10 Comments ||
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#106
FOTS Greg. Agree.
BTW, what does FOTS stand for??
Posted by: Bobby ||
12/20/2005 22:14 Comments ||
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#107
where is Mrs. D, ifn it ain't a state secret?
love to see her post a comment on this thread. LOL!
Posted by: Red Dog ||
12/20/2005 22:16 Comments ||
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#108
#80. .com - short, SWEET, and to the point!
Posted by: Bobby ||
12/20/2005 22:17 Comments ||
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#109
Late to the party as always--- sorry, I am working a new job and don't want to be testing the corporate tolerance for internet surfing on their time...
Oh, and thanks, #31, for the pic of Ted Kennedy. Reminds me once again of why I have never liked the Kennedys... among their other failings, they do not age well.But I had already eaten, so I discovered it too late to add it to my personal diet plan.
"The world you live in, that thing you call civilization and think is the norm, lol, it's as thin and fragile as a soap bubble. Much of the world - yes, that's correct - doesn't share your bubble. They don't much care what pontificating posturing faux-logic you employ nor how impressed you are with yourself. You're just an infidel. You and yours are mere cattle."
Very cogent... about what I had also come to see as the way of the world, from being an English major and history minor. We live in the world we have, not the one we wish we had.
And yeah, I voted for Al Gore in 2000. I didn't think there was all that much between him and Bush, and metaphorically flipped a coin. I also remember voting for Anderson, sometime in the early 80ies, and stuffing envelopes for the Utah Chapter of NOW in the early 80ies. So much for political consistancy....
#110
Left Angel
In college I was too the left of Shining Path... (actually not but as the libertarian tests finds anybody who supports any tax to the left of shining path - thats where I was..)
Along came Jimmy Carter - ruined the nation's day, ruined the economy, ruined the begining of my carreer with a dead economy, let the Shah be overthrown by insane lunitic muslim nuts housed and fed by FRANCE and then pretended to be an ADULT.
The democrats seem to be missing ADULTS from their party. That's a problem.
So, if I want ADULTS to run the country the only contender is the Republicans by default.
I don't agree with everything they do and say but the are ADULTS and not SPOILED CHILDREN.
I would pray for another party of ADULTS just to give us some choices but I don't see it.
#113
Murat shows up only when American soldiers die in large numbers at a time, such as in a 'copter crash. In which case I hope he never shows up. If he does, I've got him in my crosshairs. Never forgave him for that "raining Americans" comment.
Posted by: Rafael ||
12/20/2005 22:45 Comments ||
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# 1. Guilt By Association
# 2. Backstroke
# 3. Misinformation
# 4. Over Humanization
# 5. Name Calling
# 6. He Said, She Said
# 7. Unproven "Facts"
# 8. Lying Sometimes complete lies are told
# 9. Telling the Truth, For a While To throw people off the track
# 10. Not Talking at all about Something
# 11. Subtle Inaccuracies/Dismissive Tone Misstating a topic, often a serious one, and pretending any objecting or concerned view is silly, unrealistic, or just not necessary.
# 12. A One One Punch pretending to represent two sides, but one side gets a couple of great lines , the other side gets a lame line.
# 13. Volume This is related to Coordination, it is merely a deluge of the same story line everywhere, until it becomes dominant, and the media's view of it becomes the dominant view
# 14. Coordination This occurs when a number of like minded journalists all report the same angle at about the same time.
# 15. Fogging an Issue/Total Nonsense Sometimes certain groups have an interest in making sure that as few people pay attention to an issue as possible.# 16. 2,3,4 Technique Mentioning only one side of an issue 2, 3, or 4 times in an article, each time pretending you are about to present the opposing side, but you never do. Then the article suddenly ends and the reader feels bombarded, outnumbered and alone.
# 17. Preemptive Strike This is when the writer "attacks" the reader viciously at the very outset of the article with the "acceptable" view of the topic. The writer tries to "beat it into" the reader.
# 18. Framing the Debate Setting an argument around two "alternatives" which you would prefer, rather than the true alternatives.
# 19. Token Equal Time Sometimes a weak, tiny understatement is added to a propaganda piece, apparently so the writer can pretend they had been fair.
# 20. "Interpreting" A Statement Have you ever seen a writer say that someone said something, then what the person said followed, but it didn't look anything like what the writer claimed was meant?
# 21. Withholding Information Is it the same as lying? Some in the media might not want to answer that question.
# 22. Distracting or Absurd Metrics With this technique, the writer attempts to drag the reader into a debate about what the reader is even seeing. This is usually used when the propagandist is falling behind and must hurry to destroy correct understanding of events.
#115
Hey Sgt. Mom: Always read stuff that will make you look good if you die in the middle of it. - P.J. O'Rourke
Rantburgs the place to be for that problem. Civil and Well Reasoned, of course... :)
#118
.com, my friend, your "experience" goes back to 11th of September, 2001. Until that time you were living in blissful ignorance.
lotp, I'm thankful to you for having the courage to speak up when confronted with hate. But since this is Fred's site, I'd like to know what is his official opinion on the matter.
#120
Islam is not a race, nor is it a religion. It's a death cult bent on destroying the world. Therefore, it does not qualify for such protections. Hating Islam is like hating rabies.
Funny, you would've been great pals with a certain historical figure circa the 1930/40s.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
ISTANBUL - The lawyer for several suspects accused of terrorist attacks in Istanbul that killed 63 people, Tuesday defended a Muslim's right to wage a holy war in closing arguments before an Istanbul court. 
Indian troops shot dead four suspected militants in two separate gun battles in revolt-hit Kashmir, police said Monday. Three of the militants were killed during a four-hour gunfight in the southern district of Pulwama late Sunday, a police spokesman said. âThe fighting erupted when troops raided a militant hideout,â he said. The fourth militant was killed during a gun battle early Monday in the northern district of Kupwara.
A headless body of a gang member was found early Monday morning in 
ZUWAD KHALAF, Iraq (AP) - U.S. soldiers in the northern Iraqi desert dug up more than 1,000 aging rockets and missiles wrapped in plastic, some of which were buried as recently as two weeks ago, Army officials said Tuesday.
December 20, 2005: Terrorists in Iraq appear to be running short of pilfered (from Saddamâs ammo dumps) artillery shells and explosives. Home made explosives are increasingly being used for roadside bombs. One of the more novel explosive concoctions is one using concentrated hydrogen peroxide and other materials. This is a known recipe for improvised explosives, although the Iraqis are adding cumin (something found in many kitchens, and grown in Iraq), instead of charcoal, to get the mixture into an explosive state. American Crime Scene Investigators were taken aback when they first found traces of cumin in bomb site debris. It took some additional investigating to reveal that this was the result of local bomb making practices, not a recipe gone really, really bad. 
About two dozen gunmen on Tuesday briefly seized Bethlehem's city hall on Manger Square near the Church of the Nativity, demanding jobs in the Palestinian security forces. After about an hour, the gunmen tied to the ruling Fatah movement met with Bethlehem's governor and then walked out of the building. It was not immediately clear how the standoff was resolved.
Hamas and Egypt's banned Muslim Brotherhood organization, which have historical ties, have begun coordinating their moves ahead of next month's parliamentary elections in the Palestinian Authority, PA security officials said on Monday.
The Israeli army on Sunday prevented two Palestinian activists from infiltrating the Beca'ot village in the Jordan Valley for the sake of committing terrorist acts there, the Israeli state radio quoted an army spokesman as saying. Speaking on Monday, the spokesman said the failed attempt took place Sunday evening. "The two armed infiltrators were caught as they were trying to escape by cutting through the fence surrounding the village. They confessed, during the interrogation, that they were planning to "launch an attack against the village." They had two knives on them, the spokesman said.
The defence team for nine men standing trial at the State Security Court (SSC) for plotting the first-ever Al Qaeda attack in the Kingdom, on Monday asked the tribunal to acquit their clients of all charges. The men, part of a group of 13 suspects including Jordanian fugitive 
Following years of investigations based on intelligence reports, a Turkish court declared on Friday that terrorism is the instrument of Iran's foreign policy and that Teheran will not hesitate to use terrorism against its rivals in order to achieve its goals. 
Chief Military Investigating Magistrate 
With investigations into the assassination of MP and journalist 
